WWYD? Dh won't let the kids fly.

[Alicia64]

Dh thinks that the TSA situation is in direct violation w/ American liberties -- and is just the beginning of us lobsters getting boiled.

 

And, no, he doesn't think that the TSA methods are keeping us safe. Even the former TSA director is saying that the entire thing is ineffective.

 

I agree with dh. I do. But we live thousands of miles from my parents and my kids want to visit them. Yes, my parents visit us twice a year, but it's breaking my heart that we can't hop a plane and see my parents.

 

I'm not close to them, but my kids love them. Dh says that the only way to get the airlines to listen is to hurt them financially.

 

Still. . . it's so hard. Dh has agreed to let us take a cross country train trip to visit. (An exciting thing for us because we all love trains. We've done a couple of overnights and just loved it.) But it's very, very pricey.

 

Thanks for listening. :(

 

Alley

[Whereneverever]

We take fabulous long car trips. It's actually been great bonding time. :grouphug:

[Starr]

That's tough. :grouphug:

[SailorMom]

The problem with your DH's thinking - in my opinion - is that trips like yours aren't what keeps the TSA or the airlines in business. It's business travelers and military. They have no choice but to fly - so can't vote with their pocketbooks.

As for TSA - it isn't an governmental agency. It is just contracted by the government and for some reason they are allowed a monopoly. What we need to do is file a lawsuit against the TSA, and airports need to chose to contract with different security companies.

[Lisbeth]

DH and I are the same. We will absolutely NOT subject our children to a TSA frisking, for our convenience. The lesson we would be teaching them is: we will stand by while a stranger not only violates your liberties, but also GROPES your privates. Not in this lifetime.

[Dandelion]

Would it change your DH's mind to know that it's the airports - not the airlines - that contract with the TSA? My understanding is that the airlines have no real say in the matter - they're just required to pay a % of ticket revenues towards screening fees, regardless of whether the airport contracts with the TSA or a private screening company.

 

Airports can opt out of using the TSA, and many have already done so. So the thing to do - rather than boycott the airlines - is to give your business to airports that have chosen to opt out and go with private screeners. And then let your local airport know why they've lost your business.

 

I wasn't able to find a complete list of all the airports that have opted out, but here's an article that discusses the opt-out and lists a few of them. Maybe one of them is close enough for you to fly out of?

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/16/us/airports-with-new-law-are-freer-to-split-from-tsa.html

 

Sounds like airports that opt out still have to answer to the TSA on some issues, but it's a step in the right direction. And it definitely sounds like the customer experience has improved at those airports.

 

Hope you enjoy the visit - regardless of how you get there! :)

[Alicia64]

DH and I are the same. We will absolutely NOT subject our children to a TSA frisking, for our convenience. The lesson we would be teaching them is: we will stand by while a stranger not only violates your liberties, but also GROPES your privates. Not in this lifetime.

 

Lizbeth: we're in total agreement. However just recently TSA came out with a pre approved background check thing -- and I thought a solution had finally arrived! But when you read the text carefully TSA gives itself every "out" of the deal (even though it's $100 for the check) if it feels like it. It's absolutely no guarantee. No solution at all.

 

What did you think about this background check thing?

 

Alley

[stripe]

Is this list helpful?

 

Additionally, TSA has sixteen airports that utilize private screening services and does not handle claims for incidents that occur at these airports. Claims pertaining to these airports must be filed directly with the company providing screener services at the applicable airport. To file a claim for an incident that occurred at one of these private screening airports, please select one of the following links:

 

San Francisco, CA (http://www.covenantclaims.com)

Kansas City, MO (http://www.firstlinets.com)

Sioux Falls, SD (http://www.passengersfirst.com'>http://www.passengersfirst.com'>http://www.passengersfirst.com'>http://www.passengersfirst.com'>http://www.passengersfirst.com'>http://www.passengersfirst.com'>http://www.passengersfirst.com'>http://www.passengersfirst.com'>http://www.passengersfirst.com'>http://www.passengersfirst.com)

Rochester, NY (http://www.mcneilsecurity.com)

Tupelo, MS (http://www.passengersfirst.com)

Jackson Hole, WY (http://www.jacksonholeairport.com)

Key West, FL (http://www.mcneilraytheonteam.com)

Sonoma, CA (http://www.passengersfirst.com)

Roswell, NM (http://www.bossecurity-firstlineteam.com)

Havre City-County, MT (http://www.passengersfirst.com)

Lewistown, MT (http://www.passengersfirst.com)

Glasgow, MT (http://www.passengersfirst.com)

L.M. Clayton, MT (http://www.passengersfirst.com)

Sidney-Richland, MT (http://www.passengersfirst.com)

Dawson Community, MT (http://www.passengersfirst.com)

Frank Wiley Field, MT (http://www.passengersfirst.com)

 

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/customer/claims/faq02.shtm

[bzymom]

I stopped flying since I am not subjecting myself or my teenage daughter to the whim of a TSA agent. My adult son, who used to fly constantly, stopped flying too, and calls the security checks "security theater".

 

I do, though, feel for you. I think a train is a great idea.

 

And I hope the airlines get smarter about security, rather than just more dramatic.

[Happy]

DH and I are the same. We will absolutely NOT subject our children to a TSA frisking, for our convenience. The lesson we would be teaching them is: we will stand by while a stranger not only violates your liberties, but also GROPES your privates. Not in this lifetime.

 

I fly on occasion. I've never been groped.

 

Most of the time I walk through metal detectors, grab my bags, put on shoes, and head for the gate. I've never been through the fancier screening machines.

 

I'm curious. OP, how would your dh handle airline security?

Edited April 14, 2012 by Happy

[TheReader]

Would it help to know that they've greatly relaxed the rules for children?

 

Children 12 and under no longer need to remove shoes, and will not be directed through the new scanners, at all. Only the standard x-ray. This, I believe, also removes the possibility of needing a pat-down since they can just empty pockets and be wanded instead.

 

Also, a single parent traveling alone with children under 12 will not be directed through the new scanners (since the kids are not subject to it and they will not separate parent from child).

 

If both parents are present, it is possible for one parent to be directed to the scanner, but not both.

 

These are fairly recent changes, roughly December 2011, but it's progress. It's still not 100%, but it's better than it was and it does protect our children. Maybe making your dh aware of this will help?

 

If not, if the money is there for the train trip, go and enjoy the fact that your dh is not preventing you from seeing your parents, he is gifting you with a leisurely way to still give that to your kids and an added excitement of going by train. He could have just said no.

[MomatHWTK]

If your DH is ok with the cost of alternate travel, then take it. I would love a train trip.

 

We never fly with our children- severe food and environmental allergies in a confined space 30,000 feet above ground is just a bad idea. We do road trips or no trips. ;)

[Alicia64]

Would it help to know that they've greatly relaxed the rules for children?

 

It's up to the individual TSA agent. This is from March 2012:

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=toddler%20groped%20tsa&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CC0QtwIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DpRawkRB8vMA&ei=_-eJT7K5K4HE0QG_9ZXYCQ&usg=AFQjCNGtOuPs5YVigk4aHqIm-v8kxFLWKA&cad=rja

 

:(

 

Alley

[ma23peas]

I think you should fly with your children and he should take the train. He is being unreasonable and honestly, a bit foolish and hardheaded.

 

I have been 'groped' by agents (in Amsterdam of all places)..yes, it was horrifying and yes, if they had done that to my daughters I would have stopped it immediately and asked for a supervisor. Since then, we have had several more flights and no problems whatsoever...the key is to wear tight fitting clothes where there is no reason to suspect you're hiding something. They did allow my 16 year old son to go through the scanner....they did not lay a hand on him...but the screener I had used her gloved hand to go INSIDE my bra and underwear...I wanted to scream..it was a month later that so many complaints were being voiced....I just wanted to go to a chair and get away from her....it was awful...but would never convict me not to fly....especially to see my parents!!!

[Alicia64]

If your DH is ok with the cost of alternate travel, then take it. I would love a train trip.

 

We never fly with our children- severe food and environmental allergies in a confined space 30,000 feet above ground is just a bad idea. We do road trips or no trips. ;)

 

Well, it may be the only answer. It's just that it's thousands of dollars which irritates me.

 

I get where dh is coming from -- I really do. But I place a grandkid's need to see a grandparent over politics. (Of course, statistically, I'm hoping we won't get patted down because they're clearly still doing it to kids.)

 

Alley

[Cricket]

We take fabulous long car trips. It's actually been great bonding time. :grouphug:

 

:iagree: I live almost 2000 miles from my parents. I'm hoping, hoping we get to visit this summer! There are six of us and the cost to fly is around $2400. We can drive there and back for less than half of that. The last road trip we bought a tent trailer and camped along the way at state parks to avoid high motel costs. We ate food from a cooler and shopped at grocery stores instead of eating at restaurants. It worked out well. You can do so much and see so much more when you drive. When we got home we sold the tent trailer for the same money we paid for it.

[DawnM]

Gracious, if my Dh had that policy he couldn't even keep his job. I would not have my adopted child, and my parents could not be missionaries.

 

Sorry, I just don't agree.

[bettyandbob]

Does you dh care about seeing his side of the family? If he does, I assume they live closer so flying is not an issue.

 

I think his thinking is flawed. TSA has loosened the requirements for screening children. You should get familiar with the new requirements.

[Alicia64]

Gracious, if my Dh had that policy he couldn't even keep his job. I would not have my adopted child, and my parents could not be missionaries.

 

Sorry, I just don't agree.

 

Well, I agree with him in theory, but not in reality when a kid is concerned. No, I don't want my kid groped, but statistically it's doubtful to happen.

 

I'm really depressed today.

 

Alley

[NatashainDFW]

I don't find his concerns ridiculous at all. I refuse to fly and I refuse to allow my children to fly. Period end of discussion. I have said it before my husband was the victim of sexual abuse as a child. He CANNOT be touched by a grown man and if anyone where to lay a hand on one of our children his reaction would be pretty horrible. Instead we drive. Is it expensive? Yes. Is it worth it? Of course!

 

 

We live quite a ways from both mine and my husband's family. We have driven to Texas and back in order to spend time with family. If he is willing to and you can afford alternate travel do so and enjoy it.

[Stellalarella]

Is this list helpful?

 

Additionally, TSA has sixteen airports that utilize private screening services and does not handle claims for incidents that occur at these airports. Claims pertaining to these airports must be filed directly with the company providing screener services at the applicable airport. To file a claim for an incident that occurred at one of these private screening airports, please select one of the following links:

 

San Francisco, CA (www.covenantclaims.com)

Kansas City, MO (www.firstlinets.com)

Sioux Falls, SD (www.passengersfirst.com)

Rochester, NY (www.mcneilsecurity.com)

Tupelo, MS (www.passengersfirst.com)

Jackson Hole, WY (www.jacksonholeairport.com)

Key West, FL (www.mcneilraytheonteam.com)

Sonoma, CA (www.passengersfirst.com)

Roswell, NM (www.bossecurity-firstlineteam.com)

Havre City-County, MT (www.passengersfirst.com)

Lewistown, MT (www.passengersfirst.com)

Glasgow, MT (www.passengersfirst.com)

L.M. Clayton, MT (www.passengersfirst.com)

Sidney-Richland, MT (www.passengersfirst.com)

Dawson Community, MT (www.passengersfirst.com)

Frank Wiley Field, MT (www.passengersfirst.com)

 

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/customer/claims/faq02.shtm

I will say that I flew in/out of KC and their screening process was the best I've experienced at any airport. The screeners were even cheerful and welcoming--can you believe that? :)

[TheReader]

It's up to the individual TSA agent. This is from March 2012:

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=toddler%20groped%20tsa&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CC0QtwIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DpRawkRB8vMA&ei=_-eJT7K5K4HE0QG_9ZXYCQ&usg=AFQjCNGtOuPs5YVigk4aHqIm-v8kxFLWKA&cad=rja

 

:(

 

Alley

 

The video reached the press in March 2012; it does not tell us (that I can find) when the incident happened.

 

Here are the current guidelines from TSA:

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/children/index.shtm

 

and here:

http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/screening_under12.shtm

 

They really are working to make it easier on families with young children.

[Alicia64]

I don't find his concerns ridiculous at all. I refuse to fly and I refuse to allow my children to fly. Period end of discussion. I have said it before my husband was the victim of sexual abuse as a child. He CANNOT be touched by a grown man and if anyone where to lay a hand on one of our children his reaction would be pretty horrible. Instead we drive. Is it expensive? Yes. Is it worth it? Of course!

 

 

We live quite a ways from both mine and my husband's family. We have driven to Texas and back in order to spend time with family. If he is willing to and you can afford alternate travel do so and enjoy it.

 

Nataha -- you just brought a ray of sun into my day. Thank you. There are reasons for "standing our ground" against this silly TSA stuff. (And no it's not supposed to be in the least effective -- the former TSA director talks all about it what a sham it is.)

 

Thank you. We're 3,000 miles away. I think we'll fork over to take the train.

 

Thanks again,

 

Alley

[aggieamy]

I will say that I flew in/out of KC and their screening process was the best I've experienced at any airport. The screeners were even cheerful and welcoming--can you believe that? :)

 

:iagree:. I love the KC airport. DH always says that Kansas isn't exotic but it is a great place to travel from.

[NatashainDFW]

Nataha -- you just brought a ray of sun into my day. Thank you. There are reasons for "standing our ground" against this silly TSA stuff. (And no it's not supposed to be in the least effective -- the former TSA director talks all about it what a sham it is.)

 

Thank you. We're 3,000 miles away. I think we'll fork over to take the train.

 

Thanks again,

 

Alley

 

Alley,

 

No problem sweety. The trip this year was only about half that but we had planned to go the full 2600 to my father's but money was too tight. Believe me I understand how hard not flying can be. Enjoy your train trip. I am hoping we will have the funds next year to take a train to South Florida!

[MomatHWTK]

Not everybody has the same lifestyle or the same lifestyle choices. Flying isn't exactly essential to life. KWIM? Yes, some of you would miss out on things you've done if you didn't fly to do them. But that's doesn't mean that everyone else has to make the same choices.

 

Paul managed to get pretty far by boat. ;)

[tex-mex]

I'm sorry but I find the OP's husband's thinking to be very selfish -- especially in light of denying his children to visit their grandparents. :glare: Part of me is wondering if he is using this excuse as a way of not seeing his in-laws??

 

My family flies on a regular basis. Dallas Love to Houston Hobby -- ALL OF THE TIME. Son and I fly to see our specialist every month and never in the 3 years we have flown, has my son EVER been touched. The TSA agents in our experience have been very kind and polite. Only once was I asked to go to the side area to get patted down -- as my medic-alert ID bracelet was still on my arm and sounded the alarm. The TSA agent was very apologetic and did the wand (no groping) and quickly let me continue on to my flight. The TSA is employed by the airport, not the airlines. If one really wanted to make an issue or take a stand... go to the fed office regulating it.

Edited April 14, 2012 by tex-mex

[TheReader]

I'm sorry but I find the OP's husband's thinking to be very selfish -- especially in light of denying his children to visit their grandparents. :glare: Part of me is wondering if he is using this excuse as a way of not seeing his in-laws??

 

She did say in the OP that he offered and is not reluctant to pay for the extra expense for them to travel by train to see her parents.

 

I don't find him to be selfish at all, rather he's standing up for his personal beliefs and principles and being quite generous to make sure that he does not compromise his own beliefs NOR deny his wife the chance to see her parents (more than the 2x/year that they travel to her) or his children to see their grandparents.

 

I find his offer of a train ride to be very generous, and if the money is there and the extra time to make up for longer travel time, then I think it's absolutely wonderful of him to offer this.

[Night Elf]

We don't live as far from my MIL but a plane would sure shorten the trip by a whole lot. However, we refuse to fly because of all the ridiculous rules. I simply cannot take the chance that an agent will want to pat down or feel up my children. Do they really go under your bra and in your underwear? My dd14 would be scarred for life! And I don't see a way out of it if you do get chosen. It seems to me that the only alternative would be to choose to not fly and lose your money. Of course, I imagine that would raise all kinds of red flags with security and we would probably be detained on some legal warrant for hiding something. My airport is Atlanta's Hartsfield and it is a huge hub so yes, I fear security.

 

FWIW, I think this is a big issue. I don't think the OP's DH is being selfish. I think he has a right to his feelings. He's not saying no at all, so I don't see him trying to get out of seeing his inlaws. He's offering to pay even more money for an alternative transportation method. That doesn't seem selfish to me at all. I see that as being quite generous actually.

 

Just curious though, how much more is the train? When I was a kid, my divorced parents lived in separate states and I had to travel by train because the plane was too expensive. Things have obviously changed!

[Farrar]

Dh caused a huge stink when they insisted on patting my kids down. I was just like, yeah, it's a violation. You're right. But... are we going to stay in Africa or go home?!? (And to be clear, this was US TSA nonsense, not the foreign airport...)

[tex-mex]

She did say in the OP that he offered and is not reluctant to pay for the extra expense for them to travel by train to see her parents.

 

I don't find him to be selfish at all, rather he's standing up for his personal beliefs and principles and being quite generous to make sure that he does not compromise his own beliefs NOR deny his wife the chance to see her parents (more than the 2x/year that they travel to her) or his children to see their grandparents.

 

I find his offer of a train ride to be very generous, and if the money is there and the extra time to make up for longer travel time, then I think it's absolutely wonderful of him to offer this.

Sorry, but I disagree.

 

He may seem generous with other options like the train ride, but it is ridiculous with his mindset of taking a stand when family is the issue. If he feels that strongly, then let him drive to see in-laws while the OP and kids fly to see them. It sounds like the OP is very sad over the decision and is asking us for our opinions. She got my opinion. I think he is being selfish. :D

[Word Nerd]

I think you should fly with your children and he should take the train. He is being unreasonable and honestly, a bit foolish and hardheaded.

 

I have been 'groped' by agents (in Amsterdam of all places)..yes, it was horrifying and yes, if they had done that to my daughters I would have stopped it immediately and asked for a supervisor. Since then, we have had several more flights and no problems whatsoever...the key is to wear tight fitting clothes where there is no reason to suspect you're hiding something. They did allow my 16 year old son to go through the scanner....they did not lay a hand on him...but the screener I had used her gloved hand to go INSIDE my bra and underwear...I wanted to scream..it was a month later that so many complaints were being voiced....I just wanted to go to a chair and get away from her....it was awful...but would never convict me not to fly....especially to see my parents!!!

 

I don't get the logic in saying you were groped and had horrifying and awful experiences with airport security that made you want to scream, yet the DH's position is unreasonable and foolish. :confused: If anything, you proved his point.

[Night Elf]

I don't get the logic in saying you were groped and had horrifying and awful experiences with airport security that made you want to scream, yet the DH's position is unreasonable and foolish. :confused: If anything, you proved his point.

 

:iagree: That story was crazy! I can't imagine having that done to me but at least I'm an adult and could process it better than my teen children. I can't even get my mind to think about having to watch my daughters go through that, not to mention my son with Aspergers. I mean really!

[Princess Peach]

OP, to reply to your WWYD question, I would take the train and enjoy your trip.

[LibraryLover]

This probably won't help, but I wanted to mention that children under 12 don't even need to take off their shoes. I just flew with my youngest, and she only walked through the metal detector. We dealt with 4 airports, and at no time was my child touched.

 

I was patted down last year, and while I don't think this is the greatest or most effective strategy, the TSA agent was quick and 'professional'. It really was not a big deal to me. It was nothing like sexual abuse (and that's all I'll say about that). I always wear simple clothing, no bra, or a bra without wire, undies , no stockings and a simple fitted dress. They didn't touch my breasts; they sort of patted under them. It is rather dumb, and if someone wants to take down a plane, I am sure they could figure out how to do so. My biggest issue has been the clip I wear in my hair. I always manage to forget that. They do touch that. lol

 

If my dh decided to stop flying, he'd be umemployed and we'd be on government assistance.

Edited April 15, 2012 by LibraryLover

[LibraryLover]

 

She got my opinion. I think he is being selfish. :D

 

While I do think TSA has some ridiculous policies, not flying does nothing to change the process. Millions of people fly daily for business. Most airlines really don't need his money. Business and military have no choice. His silent stand to not allow his children to fly to see family is, at most, hollow and ineffective.

 

Of course, to save money, we have driven thousands of miles at a time (and 3000 miles across country). We also drive at times because road trips are fun. I would go ahead and put my kids on a train if my dh was taking such a stand. Trains are awesome.

Edited April 15, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Jilly]

He may seem generous with other options like the train ride, but it is ridiculous with his mindset of taking a stand when family is the issue. If he feels that strongly, then let him drive to see in-laws while the OP and kids fly to see them. It sounds like the OP is very sad over the decision and is asking us for our opinions. She got my opinion. I think he is being selfish. :D

 

:iagree:

[T'smom]

We fly several times a year and have never had any trouble with security. (Although one of the airports we use is the KC airport, which is apparently not TSA. I have to agree that is a wonderful airport. Everyone is always so cheerful and helpful.) If my dh were to insist we not fly, he'd be looking for a job closer to my parents. My kids relationship with their grandparents trumps an awful lot- certainly the very remote chance of a bad experience with security.

[LibraryLover]

We fly several times a year and have never had any trouble with security. (Although one of the airports we use is the KC airport' date=' which is apparently not TSA. I have to agree that is a wonderful airport. Everyone is always so cheerful and helpful.) If my dh were to insist we not fly, he'd be looking for a job closer to my parents. My kids relationship with their grandparents trumps an awful lot- certainly the very remote chance of a bad experience with security.[/quote']

 

 

People don't often say good things about flying, and I don't want to jinx myself, but my recent flights have been very pleasant, and going through security? Painless. You toss your shoes into the bin, your little baggie of lotions, your iPad, and go. It's been so easy, and folks have been very jovial. Nobody (or almost nobody) wants to be a jerk.

Edited April 14, 2012 by LibraryLover

[hana]

People don't often say good things about flying, and I don't want to jinx myself, but my recent flights have been very pleasant, and going through security? Painless. You toss your shoes into the bin, your little baggie of lotions, your iPad, and go. It's been so easy, and folks have been very jovial. Nobody (or almost nobody) wants to be a jerk.

 

 

I fly quite a bit (sometimes with my children), and this is my experience as well.

[kitten18]

Would it help to know that they've greatly relaxed the rules for children?

 

Children 12 and under no longer need to remove shoes, and will not be directed through the new scanners, at all. Only the standard x-ray. This, I believe, also removes the possibility of needing a pat-down since they can just empty pockets and be wanded instead.

 

Also, a single parent traveling alone with children under 12 will not be directed through the new scanners (since the kids are not subject to it and they will not separate parent from child).

 

If both parents are present, it is possible for one parent to be directed to the scanner, but not both.

 

These are fairly recent changes, roughly December 2011, but it's progress. It's still not 100%, but it's better than it was and it does protect our children. Maybe making your dh aware of this will help?

 

If not, if the money is there for the train trip, go and enjoy the fact that your dh is not preventing you from seeing your parents, he is gifting you with a leisurely way to still give that to your kids and an added excitement of going by train. He could have just said no.

Thank You for posting that. I'm flying this summer by myself with my kids and I wasn't aware of the changes.

 

:iagree:. I love the KC airport. DH always says that Kansas isn't exotic but it is a great place to travel from.

We used to live in KC. I always said that it's a great airport to fly into and out of but I wouldn't want a long layover there.:D

[justamouse]

Train trips are awesome. ;)

[Jane in NC]

People don't often say good things about flying, and I don't want to jinx myself, but my recent flights have been very pleasant, and going through security? Painless. You toss your shoes into the bin, your little baggie of lotions, your iPad, and go. It's been so easy, and folks have been very jovial. Nobody (or almost nobody) wants to be a jerk.

 

I travel with a tablet that does even need to be removed from my carry-on. (This is also true of e-readers.)

 

(Shrug.) Last year I made five trips by air and was patted down once. I won't pretend to enjoy it nor will I pretend that TSA is saving the world with these actions. But that won't stop me from flying. I have an ailing relative at a two day driving distance that I am not about to do by myself regularly.

 

That said, I do like trains but Amtrak is limited in my neck of the woods.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Jane in NC

[stripe]

:iagree: I live almost 2000 miles from my parents. I'm hoping, hoping we get to visit this summer! There are six of us and the cost to fly is around $2400. We can drive there and back for less than half of that. The last road trip we bought a tent trailer and camped along the way at state parks to avoid high motel costs. We ate food from a cooler and shopped at grocery stores instead of eating at restaurants. It worked out well. You can do so much and see so much more when you drive. When we got home we sold the tent trailer for the same money we paid for it.

 

Really? This gives me hope. I wanted to drive across the country but the price of gas made me want to cry.

[Mrs Mungo]

DH and I are the same. We will absolutely NOT subject our children to a TSA frisking, for our convenience. The lesson we would be teaching them is: we will stand by while a stranger not only violates your liberties, but also GROPES your privates. Not in this lifetime.

 

As a military family that has been stationed overseas? We have collectively flown *hundreds* of times. Never has anything like that happened, not in any country, not to any of us. I have heard and seen the stories, but I also know that they are few and far between, and the problems are smoothing out, getting even less frequent.

[eternalknot]

I'm not out to change anybody's mind, but perhaps the discussion can be put on hold while you and your husband do some more research? At this point no one is asking anyone else to compromise, just to keep an open mind while you thoroughly investigate all of your options. It may turn out that you end up preferring the train or that he ends up realizing the kids would be fine flying - anything is possible.

 

Both of you should read around the Flyertalk forums (it's the WTM for the flying public), specifically the Safety/Security subforum. You'll find up-to-date security checkpoint experiences and even debate about the whole rigamarole. It's not just for and by Joe & Jane Traveler; TSA agents frequent the board, too. It's an interesting place to gather the newest information and a great source for re-con WRT your specific airports.

 

FWIW, I feel as strongly as your husband does about what kids should (rather, SHOULDN'T) be subjected to for air travel. I understand where the TSA is coming from, so I'm not into the politics of it all - I just accept the reality of the situation by adaption my own reality as needed. Last Fall, my inlaws' very small airport brought in the scanners. My home airport (an airline hub) had the scanners at some checkpoints but not all. We always chose checkpoints that didn't use the scanners (at that time we weren't worried about the kids being frisked). We did cancel an important and annual trip to my inlaws' because their airport (with it's one checkpoint into our airline of choice) wasn't acceptable us. We knew TSA's rules would be relaxed under pressure, and we decided to wait it out. It hasn't taken long. My kids missed -for the first time- a very important religious holiday with my inlaws, and the one time a year their family from the old country comes to the States to visit. My kids live for these trips, and they were very disappointed to have to skip it last year.

 

We still take each trip on a case-by-case basis, and we seek out up-to-date information on which airports are doing what. Since December my kids have been on 9 trips that I can remember offhand, and all went off without a hitch. I bring up to 5 kids who range in age from 6 to 14, and even the older two (who are several inches taller than me and in no way look like they're under 12) are always treated well and allowed to accompany the younger kids (and me) through the metal detector line (WITH shoes on.) We've been to big airports, and small ... and through several cities, both national and international.

 

Good luck researching and finalizing your travel plans!

[eternalknot]

 

We used to live in KC. I always said that it's a great airport to fly into and out of but I wouldn't want a long layover there.:D

 

 

I had a plane break down there, and we sat for 4 hours waiting for the part to be flown in.

 

I got to know the Starbucks baristas pretty well :tongue_smilie:there wasn't anywhere else to go or anything else to do!

[AnaShoo]

Wow, as a frequent flier (with kids), this whole thread was a little bizarre to me. I feel bad for the OP - and life would not be happy around our house if my dh ever tried to get all high and mighty about flying. I mean, to each his own, but we've never had anything like a "groping" experience. The worst thing I've had to do is take a baby out of a baby carrier and send the carrier through the xray machine. A pain, sure, but nothing crazy. Oh, and one flight, they said we could bring juice, then on our way home through Rochester, the guy there got all weird and made me throw it out. Whatever. It annoys me, but to give up traveling just because we have to deal with the occasional stupid policy is not at all an acceptable trade for me. We're planning on taking our kids overseas in the next year, and I don't think steamships are still available, so it's to the airport we'll be going.

[Mynyel]

We just flew from Knoxville to LAX. Knoxville wanted my dd14 to go through the whole body scanner. I said I don't think so.. in a nice way. They allowed her through the regular scanner. LAX (it seemed) was only having men go through the whole body scanners. I saw *NO* women go through and there were, obviously, several.

 

Even so, after going through Knoxville and them wanting my 14yo daughter to go through a full body scan I told my dh when we got home... *NEVER* again. I will save up and take the train. I will *NOT* fly again unless alone *AND* it is an emergency.

 

Well unless one of the those non-TSA airports are close :D and they don't do full body scans. Ever.

[DianeW88]

As a military family that has been stationed overseas? We have collectively flown *hundreds* of times. Never has anything like that happened, not in any country, not to any of us. I have heard and seen the stories, but I also know that they are few and far between, and the problems are smoothing out, getting even less frequent.

 

:iagree: We fly frequently and have NEVER had an issue.

 

However, I'm still hung up on the "my husband won't LET us fly, but he'll LET us take a train" phraseology. :001_huh: :blink:

 

That type of attitude on the part of my dh SO would not fly here. Pardon the pun.:lol: