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Say What??? How much house can one afford?


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Okay, so DH and I are meeting with a mortgage person tomorrow to get pre-qualified. I had felt quite certain that we would not get pre-qualified for a mortgage in the amount we wanted (there's a house we want to place an offer on). I have been carefully trying to temper my (and my husband's!) enthusiasm for the home...we're both self-employed and I know lenders don't like that.

 

Anyway, out of curiousity I went on three seperate "how much of a house can you afford" calculator sites, and it says, CONSERVATIVELY, we can afford to buy a home that is almost 100,000 MORE than the house we want...and aggressively, we can afford a home that is almost double the price?? What?? That makes no sense. I know what we pay for rent now, and I'd feel comfortable paying a bit more for house payments..not much, but a bit more would be doable. The conservative estimates place our monthly payments at $500 more a month than we're paying now. That doesn't take into account all the "other" stuff that comes into play when owning a house--broken stuff, lawn mowing, etc etc. I know the house will need upkeep, and I have to factor that in when figuring out how much we can afford. Are they just not taking that into account?

 

I am so confused. Are we just being super conservative? We have no debts, don't buy a lot of stuff, don't save much--not because we don't want to, but the economy has been hard ( although we have enough for a 20% down payment)...Should I get my hopes up? :001_huh:

Edited by Halcyon
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Okay, so DH and I are meeting with a mortgage person tomorrow to get pre-qualified. I had felt quite certain that we would not get pre-qualified for a mortgage in the amount we wanted (there's a house we want to place an offer on). I have been carefully trying to temper my (and my husband's!) enthusiasm for the home...we're both self-employed and I know lenders don't like that.

 

Anyway, out of curiousity I went on three seperate "how much of a house can you afford" calculator sites, and it says, CONSERVATIVELY, we can afford to buy a home that is almost 100,000 MORE than the house we want...and aggressively, we can afford a home that is almost double the price?? What?? That makes no sense. I know what we pay for rent now, and I'd feel comfortable paying a bit more for house payments..not much, but a bit more would be doable. The conservative estimates place our monthly payments at $1000 more a month than we're paying now!

 

I am so confused. Are we just being super conservative? We have no debts, don't buy a lot of stuff, don't save much (unfortunately, although we have enough for a 20% down payment)...Should I get my hopes up? :001_huh:

I don't know what the deal is, but when we went through this eighteen months ago they qualified us for a crazy amount. We chose to buy what WE thought we could afford, and we've been really happy with the payments.

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I don't know about self employed, or how things have changed recently, but I know when we bought, they were willing to lend us much more than we were comfortable borrowing. Even our morgage broker said to stay on the low side as they will offer you much more than you really can afford.

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Just because you qualify doesn't mean you should borrow.

Be aware that the hassles of owning a home add to the expense... Termite bond, pest control, new roof, new water heater, repairs...

 

You really want to be sure you have an emergency fund and some cushion in your bills. And avoid ARMs like the plague.

 

We also have our property taxes and insurance payments fluctuate so our house payment changes some each year due to escrow.

 

Congratulations on moving to buy. It is exciting...but be careful not to get carried away.

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It probably comes from "conventional wisdom" about housing being no more than 30% of your income, but spun so that you can have housing be 30% of your income.

 

HOWEVER, when making those determinations, the 30% is supposed to include TOTAL housing costs: mortgage, mortgage insurance if required, and property taxes.

 

Here's a blog post about it: http://badmoneyadvice.com/2010/10/what-percent-of-your-income-to-spend-on-rent.html

 

This speaks to rent, but the basic idea is still the same.

 

ETA: what percentage of your income are the calculators suggesting? That might be being too nosy, but I'm just curious if the calculators are working with the 30-35% concept or are going much higher.

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Just because you qualify doesn't mean you should borrow.

Be aware that the hassles of owning a home add to the expense... Termite bond, pest control, new roof, new water heater, repairs...

 

You really want to be sure you have an emergency fund and some cushion in your bills. And avoid ARMs like the plague.

 

We also have our property taxes and insurance payments fluctuate so our house payment changes some each year due to escrow.

 

Congratulations on moving to buy. It is exciting...but be careful not to get carried away.

 

Oh, we won't! LOL. If anything, it looks like we're seriously underestimating what we can "afford", at least according to the banks. It doesn't matter--I know what we can afford each month, I know they'll be extra expenses to take care of. The realtor has us spooked-she told us it's really hard to get a mortgage now, especially for self-employed. Maybe it's just FLorida?

 

 

Oh, and this amount includes property and taxes--we have already got a good estimate for those.

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Our lender preapproved us for 3.5x DH's income at the time, but we didn't feel comfortable going above 3x and that's with no other debt and my ability to resume FT employment if needed. The crazy thing is that during the height of the boom, we probably could've easily gotten approval for 5x income. No wonder so many folks got themselves into trouble...

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Very basically, you can "afford" a mortgage payment that is 25-28% of your gross monthly income (as determined by the average income on your tax returns for the last two years). Your total debt to income ratio can't be more than about 35-40% usually (which includes car payments, credit card payments, etc.).

 

The better calculation, so long as it fits within the percentages, might be to determine what monthly payment you are comfortable with and choose your mortgage amount accordingly (you can use the online calculators to figure out the monthly payment amounts on various loan amounts; go to BankRate.com to get estimated interest rates.)

 

HTH!

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We were told we could "afford" a house almost 3 times what we felt comfortable buying.

 

Even now, with a house about 1/3 the price of what they suggested, I think sometimes that we bought too much house.

 

Dawn

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V

The better calculation, so long as it fits within the percentages, might be to determine what monthly payment you are comfortable with and choose your mortgage amount accordingly (you can use the online calculators to figure out the monthly payment amounts on various loan amounts; go to BankRate.com to get estimated interest rates.)

 

HTH!

 

This is exactly what we did! We knew how much we'd feel comfortable paying, so we "backed into" the calculation and came out with a home price of XXX amount.

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Be aware that what the lenders believe you can "afford" is not the end of the story for approval. There will still have to be an appraisal of the property, and in our recent experience, appraisers are giving much more conservative appraisal estimates than in years past. What the lender is willing to lend, if you are planning on x% down, will be based on that. This may be less of an issue with new purchases than with re-fis, but it's just something to be aware of. Oh, and good luck!! :)

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ETA: what percentage of your income are the calculators suggesting? That might be being too nosy, but I'm just curious if the calculators are working with the 30-35% concept or are going much higher.

 

 

28% for a conservative estimate.

33% for the aggressive estimate.

 

One thing the calculators don't account for is the cost of our health insurance premium, which is a lot as we're self-employed. I want that to be factored in.

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Since you are self-employed the mortgage company will likely only count your income that is listed as the AGI on the last line of page 1 of your tax returns. This is the number after you have deducted all of your business expenses. It is difficult to get qualified right now...we are going through the same process BUT since you have 20 percent to put as a down payment you should be fine.

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I remember when we were pre-qualified for our first house. The payments they expected us to be able to afford left us with almost $600/month for utilities, food, activities, anything else. We laughed at that and went with what we were comfortable with.

 

Please don't take out a mortgage they say you can afford!!!! LOL

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Our lender preapproved us for 3.5x DH's income at the time, but we didn't feel comfortable going above 3x and that's with no other debt and my ability to resume FT employment if needed. The crazy thing is that during the height of the boom, we probably could've easily gotten approval for 5x income. No wonder so many folks got themselves into trouble...

 

We are house hunting and were preapproved for 4.6x DH's income just a couple of months ago. We can afford about 3.5-3.75x maximum. I was absolutely shocked that the bank would want to lend us that much.

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Also, be prepared to provide LOTS of documentation. The mortgage company will probably ask for a lot of things that employees don't always have to provide. This could include bank statements, proof taxes have been paid based on what you filed and current profit & loss statements for your "business". If you are self-employed and don't get 1099s you will probably need to make profit & loss statements even if this is not something you normally do as part of your accounting. If you get 1099s they may allow those instead.

 

Be prepared to be patient. With all of the mortgage fraud on "no document" loans in recent years lenders are now going above and beyond to make sure they have proper documentation.

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Make sure you factor in property tax and insurance on top of a mortgage payment. I have a friend that somehow managed to buy and house and forget about property taxes completely.

 

Most mortgage companies won't let you do this anymore. Before all the issues in the last few years you could tell the mortgage company you wanted to pay your own taxes and insurance. Generally, that is no longer an option.

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Most mortgage companies won't let you do this anymore. Before all the issues in the last few years you could tell the mortgage company you wanted to pay your own taxes and insurance. Generally, that is no longer an option.

 

We refinanced last year and were still able to pay our own taxes and insurance. Escrows were not required.

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Also, be prepared to provide LOTS of documentation. The mortgage company will probably ask for a lot of things that employees don't always have to provide. This could include bank statements, proof taxes have been paid based on what you filed and current profit & loss statements for your "business". If you are self-employed and don't get 1099s you will probably need to make profit & loss statements even if this is not something you normally do as part of your accounting. If you get 1099s they may allow those instead.

 

Be prepared to be patient. With all of the mortgage fraud on "no document" loans in recent years lenders are now going above and beyond to make sure they have proper documentation.

 

Yes, they've already asked us for profit and loss, bank statements, tax files etc. Luckily DH is organized.

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What kind of interest rate are you assuming? My husband and I are in the process of buying a home and selling this one, and our new anticipated interest rate means we will be paying slightly less each month for twice the mortgage we have now. (Of course, both of these houses are worth a fraction of some of the others I've seen posted lately. I am so thankful we can live in low cost areas!) Rates were much, much higher when we moved into our current house.

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I'm glad you're not falling into the "trap" of buying too much house! That's one of the many factors that led to the US housing market crashing...just because you CAN do something (take out a mortgage 4-5 times annual income in this scenario) doesn't mean you SHOULD. I'm sure that applies to many things, but particularly with money. :tongue_smilie: Most financial planners will tell you that a comfortable, not under/over invested mortgage is 2-2.5 times annual income. Good luck, OP, I hope you get the right house for your family!

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I'm glad you're not falling into the "trap" of buying too much house! That's one of the many factors that led to the US housing market crashing...just because you CAN do something (take out a mortgage 4-5 times annual income in this scenario) doesn't mean you SHOULD. I'm sure that applies to many things, but particularly with money. :tongue_smilie: Most financial planners will tell you that a comfortable, not under/over invested mortgage is 2-2.5 times annual income. Good luck, OP, I hope you get the right house for your family!

 

:iagree:

2-2.5x is the rule we followed buying both our current and last house. they told us we can afford 2x what we planned. that was insane

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That's perfect...we're hoping to get a mortage for about 2.2 times our annual income, maybe 2.3. But we hope to negotiate the price of the home down quite a bit. Let's hope the mortgage lady we're seeing tomorrow can help us even though DH is self-employed. He's been running his own business for 30 years so hopefully that will help.

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I am so confused. Are we just being super conservative? We have no debts, don't buy a lot of stuff, don't save much--not because we don't want to, but the economy has been hard ( although we have enough for a 20% down payment)...Should I get my hopes up? :001_huh:

 

If you have a good credit score, a good down payment (20%), and a decent appraisal, it's still pretty easy to get a home loans. You are not being conservative; I think the banks continue to lend unwisely. Recklessly, even.

 

But you know best what you can afford, and you won't believe everything the bank tells you.:001_smile:

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28% for a conservative estimate.

33% for the aggressive estimate.

 

One thing the calculators don't account for is the cost of our health insurance premium, which is a lot as we're self-employed. I want that to be factored in.

 

We follow the 25 percent rule. Our mortgage should be less than approx. 25 percent of our take-home pay. If you have 2 mortgages (we also own a rental house), they should STILL add up to 25 % or less of your take-home pay. That's always been our rule and it's kept us from getting into trouble.

 

When we bought our house last summer, those were the numbers the mortgage company wanted to see, too. They wanted both of our mortgages to be under 25 percent take-home pay (they wouldn't even consider our rental income).

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When we were shopping for our first home our realtor told us we could afford a $1400 per month house payment. We'd done the math--we could afford in the neighborhood of $400. Even if I'd continued to work we couldn't have afforded that house payment.

 

Go with your gut. We went with our own estimates and have never regretted it.

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If you have a good credit score, a good down payment (20%), and a decent appraisal, it's still pretty easy to get a home loans. You are not being conservative; I think the banks continue to lend unwisely. Recklessly, even.

 

Unless your self employed.:001_huh: Dh and I both have credit scores in the 800's, more than 20% down, good appraisal etc... They REALLY put you through when you're self employed. We just moved into our new home last Sept and we had to jump through some hoops, but our bank was wonderful. Maybe because we've had a relationship with them for so many years. It's definitely different from someone drawing W2 wages from an employer vs. being self employed.

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Okay, so DH and I are meeting with a mortgage person tomorrow to get pre-qualified. I had felt quite certain that we would not get pre-qualified for a mortgage in the amount we wanted (there's a house we want to place an offer on). I have been carefully trying to temper my (and my husband's!) enthusiasm for the home...we're both self-employed and I know lenders don't like that.

 

Anyway, out of curiousity I went on three seperate "how much of a house can you afford" calculator sites, and it says, CONSERVATIVELY, we can afford to buy a home that is almost 100,000 MORE than the house we want...and aggressively, we can afford a home that is almost double the price?? What?? That makes no sense. I know what we pay for rent now, and I'd feel comfortable paying a bit more for house payments..not much, but a bit more would be doable. The conservative estimates place our monthly payments at $500 more a month than we're paying now. That doesn't take into account all the "other" stuff that comes into play when owning a house--broken stuff, lawn mowing, etc etc. I know the house will need upkeep, and I have to factor that in when figuring out how much we can afford. Are they just not taking that into account?

 

I am so confused. Are we just being super conservative? We have no debts, don't buy a lot of stuff, don't save much--not because we don't want to, but the economy has been hard ( although we have enough for a 20% down payment)...Should I get my hopes up? :001_huh:

Do NOT listen to those people or those calculators.

 

NO, you cannot comfortably afford $100,000 more than you think you can, not if you like to eat once in awhile, and take your kids for an ice cream cone, and repair your car if necessary.

 

Those people are whacked and we still laugh about the near-million dollar house that the mortgage broker insisted that we qualify for...

 

And yes, get approved. Not "pre-qualified", which is absolutely meaningless. Give your info to ONE individual who has the authority to approve you, by the way.

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The same thing happened when the bank pre-approved us. It was for double what we would feel comfortable spending, and more than double what we ended up purchasing. We bought a home that was about 150% of dh's yearly salary at the time. :D

 

I think we are willing to spend less on a house than the average person, though. We don't spend the money on houses, cars, or clothes like most people. We go cheap on those and instead spend what seems to many, I'm sure, irrational sums on books, food (organic, no time for coupons, lots of produce,) music and art lessons, robotics and other equipment, books, travel, museum memberships, and books. Whenever I compare our expenses to one of those charts for the "typical American," it doesn't match up at all. I'm assuming most people with dh's salary, from what I can see, are indeed living in homes that cost twice what ours did.

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We follow the 25 percent rule. Our mortgage should be less than approx. 25 percent of our take-home pay. If you have 2 mortgages (we also own a rental house), they should STILL add up to 25 % or less of your take-home pay. That's always been our rule and it's kept us from getting into trouble.

 

When we bought our house last summer, those were the numbers the mortgage company wanted to see, too. They wanted both of our mortgages to be under 25 percent take-home pay (they wouldn't even consider our rental income).

 

 

Well, based on my back-of-the-envelope calculations, it looks like our mortgage plus taxes and insurance amount would be about 23% of our take home pay. And while I absolutely cannot and won't count on it, my income from my own business has been increasing steadily but slowly over the last year and I don't see that stopping. Again, I am not relying on this, but it's a good thing. We'll see what happens today when we talk to the mortgage person.

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Well, based on my back-of-the-envelope calculations, it looks like our mortgage plus taxes and insurance amount would be about 23% of our take home pay. And while I absolutely cannot and won't count on it, my income from my own business has been increasing steadily but slowly over the last year and I don't see that stopping. Again, I am not relying on this, but it's a good thing. We'll see what happens today when we talk to the mortgage person.

 

It sounds like the mortgage is right where it should be then. :thumbup1: We got our mortgage for this house last June (?) and I couldn't believe how strict they were compared to when we bought a house in 2005. We ended up getting a MUCH better mortgage, tho. I think the mortgage company gave us an awful mortgage in '05. This one was a much better interest rate and terms...but they sold our mortgage before our 1st payment was even due.

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If you can find a decent house in a decent neighborhood for the lower multiple, then absolutely go for it! Dave Ramsey always recommends a 1.5x multiple FWIW. Unfortunately, out in our neck of the woods, that would force us to choose between an unsafe neighborhood, a 2 hour each way commute, or squishing the 5 of us into a teeny 1 BR condo. :(

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Sheesh. Just keep in mind that your mortgage broker, banker, realtor, etc are not paying your mortgage and related bills, you are.

 

:iagree: No kidding! We were approved for double what we spent! I can honestly say we don't feel like we have an extra mortgage's worth of money sitting around every month.:001_huh:

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the one piece of advice we gave dd and dsil when they were buying was to make sure that they could survive on only one salary and not lose the house if something happened. it hasn't, yet, they are both still employed, but we all sleep better nights knowing that if one of them became unemployed, they would still have a roof over the heads, and food on the table.

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My experience is that getting pre-approved isn't the hard part. The hard part is getting the underwriter to sign off on the deal. The pre-approval process is broad strokes, the underwriting process is nitpicking. Make no mistake, the underwriter WILL factor in your health insurance and other SE costs. However, if you are going for a reasonably priced house and you have the down payment, you're probably in pretty good shape.

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Sounds sensible, and good luck today!!

 

Thank you. DH meets with them at 2. I am nervous, and trying to remind myself that all self-employed people have a really hard time getting a mortgage, especially now, and that we shouldn't take it personally.

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