Sebastian (a lady) Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Yep, "pantsing" has always been an issue in schools. My dh said it happened when he was in junior high, and he was born in 1959. Whenever you throw a group of kids in that age group together in an institutional setting....this type of behavior is what results. One more reason my kids have never been, and will never be, in a public school setting. Oh, and for the record (and to all those who are telling you that your kids "need" this kind of experience to be ready for the real world), neither of my home school grads who are currently attending different universities have ever been "pantsed" or had anyone try to hump them in college. Real world my @$$. :glare: Yeah, in the real world for which I'm preparing my sons, these sort of behavior result in arrest, harassment lawsuits or courts martial depending on the setting. I would hate to bring them up with an attitude that it's ok to do these things right up until they turn 18 and then they could go to jail or be liable for lots of money in restitution. Because of course parents assume that their kids are only learning to deal with bullies. Don't any of them realize their kids are also learning how to be bullies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in AL Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Thanks for this link! The film was mentioned on our local news website, because some local parents are trying to get the message out for everyone to watch it. I hadn't heard the details about it, though. Here's a quote from your link that shows the tone of the film: "The film, which follows the experience of five children whose lives have been forever changed by bullying, isn’t for the faint of heart. Watching it feels like having your chest opened with a can opener then sprinkled with rock salt. The music is haunting, the voices of parents who have lost their children are unspeakably sad, and the language is raw: apparently many kids swear like truck drivers when not in the presence of adults." Awful. I'll probably watch it but I'm not looking forward to it. I'm not sure I would be able to watch that movie. This thread and others like it take me back to those times I was bullied/s*xually harassed all those years ago. When I get those memories flooding back and the things I felt... well, I feel like that little kid all over again and want to cry. I can see it as if it was yesterday--- the classrooms, the hallways, the *smells*, everything. Each incident is permanently etched in my brain. I'm just not sure I could watch a movie about it. I may wait to hear others' reactions to it. I just don't know. I can't imagine listening to the parents with sad music in the background... :crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I am going to post what happened to a good student at a local good high school. This has nothing to do with sexual assault but does have to do with plain assault. The boy was sitting in high school science class trying to listen to the teacher speaking. A girl who belongs in what he calls the 5% group (the trouble makers, drug users, etc, of the school) was talking and making it hard for him to hear. He asked her could she please be quiet since he wants to hear. She decided this deserved a full big purse swung and smashed into his head. Then she followed that up with jumping on the guy and proceeding to punch him. After his initial shock, he pushed the girl off of him. A teacher and an aide saw the whole thing and back up his version of the story. She had a few 5% girls in the class backing her up. First they suspended her and then they suspended him even though the adults said he was the victim. You see, he pushed her off of him after she was repeatedly punching him. It was off school suspension and will be on his high school record. I didn't see any need to add to the kid's misery so I didn't even bring up that his choice of college and definitely his ability to get a scholarship have greatly diminished because of this incident. My daughter is not going to high school no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuirkyKapers Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 :eek: Just when you think you have heard it all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 :grouphug: Heather, Venia, and BBQMom :grouphug: As a mother of sons I am just as concerned with the injustice as I am with the exposure to bullying and violence. What does it do to the psyche of boys to get a loud and clear message that they must not fight back, must not stand up for themselves or others? I think that is very harmful. What does it do to physically weak (or otherwise weak) young people to know that nobody will dare to stand up for them, or at least that they shouldn't expect a hero because the hero will be punished? A setting where both the victim and the perp receive equal punishment is like Gotham City without Batman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I remember the 'pantsing' & also in high school there were some guys who, in the hustle & bustle of changing classes, would slap girls on the butt as they walked by them (while you were standing at your locker with your back turned to the hall). By the time you turned around to see who did it they were lost in the crowd of kids walking in the halls. There was a boy in middle school who grabbed my rear during class and in the halls on a regular basis. My mother went to the principal about it, but they didn't do anything. She even told the principal that if they didn't do anything, then she would back me in defending myself. One time as he approached me at my locker, I saw him coming. I pretended not to see him and just as he reached for me, I turned and kicked him between the legs. :D Fortunately, the teachers didn't see it, but I was never bothered again. It's unfortunately that kids are not allowed to fight back. It might actually help reduce the problem. In high school, I was suspended for being in a fight where I didn't physically defend myself. She started it. I told her to butt out, using one choice word. She hit me. I walked away. I got suspended for using that choice word. Fortunately, she was a known bully and had been in trouble many times so they expelled her that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy2BaMom Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I so appreciate the post about the movie Bully (sorry, don't remember who posted it). I have so many parents who say to me "Is it really that different?...Bullying has always been around, it was when I went through school. Kids just learned to deal with it, instead of needing to run to the adults for every tiny thing." (I hear this because I have an M.S. Ed and am a certified teacher, so they figure I must know.) When I try to enlighten them, they still don't believe me. Now I can recommend they see this movie. It is different. Vastly different. It is assault, violation, emotional and psychological targeting that is too-often-endless for the victim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Intention is irrelevant; the victim's feelings are what matters. I disagree. Some people take offense at anything. I'm not saying you are, so please don't take this personally. But I am sometimes astonished at how perceptions differ from one person to another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I am going to post what happened to a good student at a local good high school. This has nothing to do with sexual assault but does have to do with plain assault. Something similar happened to my dd in 7th grade. She was still learning English, and her reading skills were not great. There was a boy in her class who sat behind her and constantly ridiculed and belittled her when she had to read out loud. She asked the teacher for help multiple times. The teacher's advice was to ignore him, and she would not let dd change seats. Finally, in frustration, my dd hit the boy in the side of the head with a notebook. She was suspended. Nothing happened to the boy. (He did stop bothering her, though. I don't advocate fighting, but sometimes kids don't leave you alone until you give them reason to leave you alone. Oh, and the teacher was not rehired the next year. She was a first-year teacher and apparently there were LOTS of complaints about her. She didn't show up to the meeting the school set up to discuss the suspension. I supported the suspension. I told dd that I wasn't too upset by what she had done but that she did have to suffer the consequences.) Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetMissMagnolia Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 :iagree: good grief!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Once again I am so thankful I am not of middle/high school age again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I am going to post what happened to a good student at a local good high school. This has nothing to do with sexual assault but does have to do with plain assault. The boy was sitting in high school science class trying to listen to the teacher speaking. A girl who belongs in what he calls the 5% group (the trouble makers, drug users, etc, of the school) was talking and making it hard for him to hear. He asked her could she please be quiet since he wants to hear. She decided this deserved a full big purse swung and smashed into his head. Then she followed that up with jumping on the guy and proceeding to punch him. After his initial shock, he pushed the girl off of him. A teacher and an aide saw the whole thing and back up his version of the story. She had a few 5% girls in the class backing her up. First they suspended her and then they suspended him even though the adults said he was the victim. You see, he pushed her off of him after she was repeatedly punching him. It was off school suspension and will be on his high school record. I didn't see any need to add to the kid's misery so I didn't even bring up that his choice of college and definitely his ability to get a scholarship have greatly diminished because of this incident. My daughter is not going to high school no matter what. Can't you fight to have that removed from the record? I got suspended also after defending myself from a physical assault. It was my 100lb self vs a guy a head and a half taller than me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeneralMom Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I am not sure how I would react in the situation, either watching it or being the victim. I think I would be shocked silent momentarily but then screaming mad. However, I worry about other people trying to defend the victim. When I was in the 3rd grade and my brother was in the 6th (in Quebec elementary is K-6) we were on the school play ground when a fight broke out between two big 6th graders. Somehow they landed right on top of me and I was bent over in two trying to defend myself against the blows they were raining on each other. Apparently my brother went nuts and barreled into them and got into the fight but managed to make them realize they were on top of me. Even though he was just defending me he got suspended right along with them. He had already written his entrance exams and been accepted to a private school but my parents had to call the school and explain the situation because if he had had to submit his final transcript with a suspension he would not have been able to attend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I didn't see any need to add to the kid's misery so I didn't even bring up that his choice of college and definitely his ability to get a scholarship have greatly diminished because of this incident. I'm not sure that's true — although school officials would like students to believe that everything on their "permanent record" will follow them forever, that's not my experience. I had a suspension and my share of detentions, and it had no impact at all on my getting top scholarships. I don't think those things are even on the transcripts that get sent to colleges. Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I had a suspension and my share of detentions, and it had no impact at all on my getting top scholarships. I don't think those things are even on the transcripts that get sent to colleges. Sounds like somebody was a bit of a troublemaker... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 This stuff makes me feel extraordinarily under-sheltered. All of this stuff happened when I was in middle school (mid-90's) and worse. I thought it was typical. Inappropriate, disgusting, humiliating, illegal... but typical. This is part of why we are homeschooling, because it would never occur to me that immature, hormonally charged, undersupervised middle schoolers wouldn't be dry humping people in the halls for laughs. Yeah pretty much this. I remember slightly more PG versions happening in about grades 3-4-5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 As other posters have noted, I remember a lot of this behavior from back in the day (and I went to middle school from 1976 to 1979). It's just that kids weren't so marketing savvy, so there were no catchy names :001_rolleyes: It was horrible then and it's horrible now. The lack of response was negligent then, and it's negligent now. I do think it's worse now, because cell phones (with cameras) in every pocket and social media means that the bullies can be far more efficient, and the poor bullied kids have no escape even when they go home. But I would bet that some kids killed themselves 20, 30, 40 years ago; we just didn't hear about every news story back then (no CNN), plus people were much less open about suicide. I watched the Bully trailer, and I think it's going to be an amazing film. They show a mom near tears, telling the principal that her son isn't safe on the bus. The principal replies that "I have been on that bus, and they are as good as gold" and the film segues to the bus, where kids are punching, kicking, and choking other kids. Maybe it will open some eyes - does she seriously think the kids act the same way when the principal is on the bus?? She's either an idiot, a liar, or very self-decieving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 My son goes to a church-based enrichment program for homeschoolers. There are 37 kids in his group, which is grades 8-10. They are so sweet, innocent, polite, protected, and educated. A big deal was once the one couple who are "boyfriend and girlfriend" hugged each other briefly. The school administrater quickly told them that was not allowed. We are so, so blessed. Yes, you are! I'm envious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2scouts Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 My 16 year old son goes to one of those "excellent public schools" that people don't think have those kinds of problems. I just asked him if he knew about "credit carding" and he smiled and said, "Uh, yeah. Why?" Last week he told me that he was carrying his lunch and almost walked right into a fight between two girls. He realized that one had just hit the other with a chair and he backed up and went another way. Most of the people in my community prefer to pretend those things don't happen in our wonderful school district. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readinmom Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Sick and gross...I do not understand what is happening to our children. The scary thing about the link to one of the articles is the comments underneath: "Parents are overreacting, everyone does this, lighten up..." :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'm not all that surprised, unfortunately... :( When I was little...Idk, 2nd, 3rd grade?...an older boy (still in elementary though, so younger than 6th grade) backed me into the corner on the bus, alone, and told me he was going to rape me. I can still remember it, and I was terrified. I didn't know what that meant - heck, I don't know if HE even knew what it meant. But he knew it was something threatening, and I could tell, too. The bus driver got back on the bus shortly thereafter. I remember knowing a LOT about s*x stuff in elementary school. I just didn't quite get how it worked. And in middle and high school, I lived in a nicer school district, etc...I don't really remember anything like what the OP mentioned, but honestly...it sounds so typical it may have been normal to me, kwim? Like, I even understand the reaction of the fellow students...I know I would have reacted the same. Sad but true...I was totally desensitized to that sort of thing. Now, of course, I'm like :svengo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Sounds like somebody was a bit of a troublemaker... :D Apparently some people don't like having their authority questioned. Who knew? :tongue_smilie: Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisbeth Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 If ANYONE ever touches my daughter like this God help them, I will break their wrists. That is disgusting. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Fairy Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'm so jaded now, nothing surprises me. :( That kind of stuff was going on when I was in school (titty twisters, for example), and my dh sees stuff at work on a daily basis that would curl your toes. It's not new, but it's worse, imo, and so very sad and disturbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Cornelia Snook Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 My MIL is the only one voicing her concerns that my children won't know how to function in the real world because I homeschool them. Bless her 63 year-old heart, she has NO IDEA what the real world is like. NONE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelli Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 The "initiation" to join our high school's football team was for the seniors to grab incoming freshman boys at lunch time, forcibly spread their legs apart, and then ram them into the light pole that stood in front of the high school. This went on for years and no one did anything about it. It was just what happened if you joined the football team. :ack2: I look back on a lot of stuff like this that happened in school in shock and disbelief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I read these stories and think dh and I must have grown up in a seriously different place ~ yet he was in CA and I was in TX. None of these things ever happened. I grew up in small town TX and football was seriously important (state championship game just about every year) but there was no hazing or craziness. Older dd is in ps for middle school this year and nothing ever happens there. She said we must be paranoid (we talked a lot about all of the things that might or could happen based on things we've read) because everyone is nice and there have been no problems. I guess dh and I were just very lucky with where we attended school and now our dd must just be very lucky as well. It just seems so foreign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirch Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 A neighbor was telling me about this going on in our local PS, where she teaches fifth grade. I mentioned in the conversation that I plan to homeschool and she was appalled, saying that my kids would be "socially backward" and unable to function as adults in society. Once I recovered from the complete logical disconnect(play acting gang r*pe seems pretty socially dysfunctional to me) I pointed out that both DH and I are homeschool graduates who are functioning rather nicely. But, yeah...that is fifth and sixth grade in my small, rural town. Ok, I cannot wrap my mind around the mindset that would tell of such a thing happening in her school and then turn around and insist that attending this school is essential for healthy social development. :confused: I mean, even if I did buy into the "school is necessary for social development" argument, I think I'd manage to figure out that this particular conversation MIGHT not be the best time to make it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Apparently some people don't like having their authority questioned. Who knew? :tongue_smilie: Jackie :D :D :D :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I read these stories and think dh and I must have grown up in a seriously different place ~ yet he was in CA and I was in TX. None of these things ever happened. I grew up in small town TX and football was seriously important (state championship game just about every year) but there was no hazing or craziness. Older dd is in ps for middle school this year and nothing ever happens there. She said we must be paranoid (we talked a lot about all of the things that might or could happen based on things we've read) because everyone is nice and there have been no problems. I guess dh and I were just very lucky with where we attended school and now our dd must just be very lucky as well. It just seems so foreign. Katy? ;) It's strange reading this thead. DH has some stories, having been a bus driver a few years ago. I don't have any stories; I worked in the elementary schools. I probably must missed the age at which it starts. However, I went to an urban, diverse high school and I don't remember sexual harassment being present at all. The school where I teach is self-select in terms of population and student adult ratio is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiKC Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I remember this BIG TIME I had on those baggy pants everyone wore and some boy snagged me. It was that time of the month and I had a pad on and it was HORRIBLE! I actually skipped the rest of the school year and got caught by the police the last day of school. I had to do summer classes and it sucked. Thankfully we moved and I went to a different highschool than everyone else from there. omigosh!!! That has got to rank as world's all-time top most embarrassing moment! You poor thing. I remember in junior high being at the pool with a friend. When she unfurled her towel up into the air, out flew a (clean) pad. We were so horrified, and left the scene. But at least we were together and laughed so hard we nearly cried. Funny the humor kids find at that age! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolamum Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Not only is this disturbing information, it seems a great indication of why it was wrong to remove discipline from the teachers and principles of the schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I brought this up to my son after reading about it, and he hadn't heard of credit carding, but said that his friends that go to public middle school told him about a*s slap fridays...where every friday guys go around hitting girls (and guys?) on the butt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Not only is this disturbing information, it seems a great indication of why it was wrong to remove discipline from the teachers and principles of the schools. They didn't remove discipline. Most schools have removed corporal punishment, though. Even so, child at this age should not be subject to institutional corporate punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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