Frustrated with my 17yods and his music choice (no little eyes)

[Rita]

My elder son has always been tenderhearted and, for the most part, compliant. That changed when he hit 15 1/2 or so, and I understand the need for him to break free from his parents and be his own person. I get that it's part of growing up. But now, he's gone to totally unacceptable music choices. He's decided that he loves heavy metal, and not just heavy metal, but DEATH metal. We have sat down with him and tried to listen to it and see his perspective (when it was "just" heavy metal). What does not make this any easier is that a family at church that we HUGELY respect, have no problem with Christian heavy metal. And honestly, I try to not freak out over the heavy metal.

But now, he's starting to download and listen to Chelsea Grin. I won't link to them, but if you do a google search, make sure there are no little eyes looking over your shoulders. When asked if he likes their lyrics, he said "I don't dislike them".....even after I read the lyrics aloud to him :(

We've taken his iPod (again) (He was specifically told to NOT download Chelsea Grin, and after having the iPod back for 23 hours, he put them right back on it)

I just would like some reassurance that he will come out of whatever teenage angst he is in and see our point of view. Right now he thinks we don't love him because we are disciplining him (I know, that's how teenagers think...I remember being there!)

Anyone have some successful tips to share on how to keep loving the rebellious teenager and not lose my sanity?!?!

[lionfamily1999]

Banning it makes it more tempting. This is the time of rebellion. You've now given him a solid point of attack.

 

Is your son a Christian?

 

Is there someone besides you and your dh that he trusts, especially as someone that knows about God?

 

I went through this (grunge/alternative). I didn't stop listening to it until I started considering how it effected my behavior. I didn't realize that until a trusted person showed me.

 

:grouphug:

[regentrude]

He may not see your POV any time soon, but eventually, in a few years. By then, he will have moved out, work a job, possibly have a family.

I personally would not discipline an almost adult young man for his music taste. Yes, I would definitely discuss it, explain what I find objectionable, how the lyrics (which I did not look up) do not mesh with my family values - but I also know that listening to something with questionable lyrics in no way means that the young man is on the way to acting badly. I would really try to distinguish between the two things.

At this age, I personally would not resort to confiscating iPods etc. In one year, he will be on his own, making his own choices, listening to whatever he pleases. This is the time to prepare him for this independence. I would work to keep communication open, to enjoy this last year with my young adult. I would not choose to make this the battle that determines our relationship.

I might request that the music is only listened to on headphones and not played in the hearing of younger siblings who might be disturbed/confused by the lyrics.

[TN Mama]

He may not see your POV any time soon, but eventually, in a few years. By then, he will have moved out, work a job, possibly have a family.

I personally would not discipline an almost adult young man for his music taste. Yes, I would definitely discuss it, explain what I find objectionable, how the lyrics (which I did not look up) do not mesh with my family values - but I also know that listening to something with questionable lyrics in no way means that the young man is on the way to acting badly. I would really try to distinguish between the two things.

At this age, I personally would not resort to confiscating iPods etc. In one year, he will be on his own, making his own choices, listening to whatever he pleases. This is the time to prepare him for this independence. I would work to keep communication open, to enjoy this last year with my young adult. I would not choose to make this the battle that determines our relationship.

I might request that the music is only listened to on headphones and not played in the hearing of younger siblings who might be disturbed/confused by the lyrics.

 

:iagree: With all of this.

[Laura in MI]

He may not see your POV any time soon, but eventually, in a few years. By then, he will have moved out, work a job, possibly have a family.

I personally would not discipline an almost adult young man for his music taste. Yes, I would definitely discuss it, explain what I find objectionable, how the lyrics (which I did not look up) do not mesh with my family values - but I also know that listening to something with questionable lyrics in no way means that the young man is on the way to acting badly. I would really try to distinguish between the two things.

At this age, I personally would not resort to confiscating iPods etc. In one year, he will be on his own, making his own choices, listening to whatever he pleases. This is the time to prepare him for this independence. I would work to keep communication open, to enjoy this last year with my young adult. I would not choose to make this the battle that determines our relationship.

I might request that the music is only listened to on headphones and not played in the hearing of younger siblings who might be disturbed/confused by the lyrics.

:iagree:

[Rita]

Banning it makes it more tempting. This is the time of rebellion. You've now given him a solid point of attack.

 

Is your son a Christian?

 

Is there someone besides you and your dh that he trusts, especially as someone that knows about God?

 

I went through this (grunge/alternative). I didn't stop listening to it until I started considering how it effected my behavior. I didn't realize that until a trusted person showed me.

 

:grouphug:

 

He has been raised in a Christian home, and has made a profession for Christ, but is now really questioning if there is a God :(

The trusted family I mentioned in the OP is the associate pastor of our church. He and his wife have raised 3 boys, run a group home (twice) for troubled teens, and my son ADORES them. We have asked them to talk with him, and they have.

I agree with the fact that we have given him a solid point for attack. When he first started down the heavy metal path, we did try to just accept it. It wasn't until the death metal started that we put our foot down.

[ChristyB in TN]

:iagree:

:iagree: With all of this.

 

yes, banning or even attempting to understand is counterproductive at this age. He is not doing anything wrong, just distasteful. Demand he always wear headphones and just breathe. Parenting a teenager is just...rough.

[catz]

He may not see your POV any time soon, but eventually, in a few years. By then, he will have moved out, work a job, possibly have a family.

I personally would not discipline an almost adult young man for his music taste. Yes, I would definitely discuss it, explain what I find objectionable, how the lyrics (which I did not look up) do not mesh with my family values - but I also know that listening to something with questionable lyrics in no way means that the young man is on the way to acting badly. I would really try to distinguish between the two things.

At this age, I personally would not resort to confiscating iPods etc. In one year, he will be on his own, making his own choices, listening to whatever he pleases. This is the time to prepare him for this independence. I would work to keep communication open, to enjoy this last year with my young adult. I would not choose to make this the battle that determines our relationship.

I might request that the music is only listened to on headphones and not played in the hearing of younger siblings who might be disturbed/confused by the lyrics.

 

:iagree: With a 17 year old I'd be working hard to keep lines of communication open to foster an open relationship when he's an adult. Not that every behavior or choice a 17 year old might make should be over looked. Choice of music seems pretty small potatoes compared to some choices other kids might make at this age. If this is his biggest rebellion, you are one lucky parent. :grouphug:

[Rita]

He may not see your POV any time soon, but eventually, in a few years. By then, he will have moved out, work a job, possibly have a family.

I personally would not discipline an almost adult young man for his music taste. Yes, I would definitely discuss it, explain what I find objectionable, how the lyrics (which I did not look up) do not mesh with my family values - but I also know that listening to something with questionable lyrics in no way means that the young man is on the way to acting badly. I would really try to distinguish between the two things.

At this age, I personally would not resort to confiscating iPods etc. In one year, he will be on his own, making his own choices, listening to whatever he pleases. This is the time to prepare him for this independence. I would work to keep communication open, to enjoy this last year with my young adult. I would not choose to make this the battle that determines our relationship.

I might request that the music is only listened to on headphones and not played in the hearing of younger siblings who might be disturbed/confused by the lyrics.

 

I believe that music DOES influence our attitudes and behavior. Music has a powerful impact on us...think about how music moves you...it can make you happy, and bring you to tears. The lyrics he is wanting to listen to are VILE...one song is all about the mutilation, r*pe, and murder of prostitutes.

 

We are trying to prepare him for independence (which is still 2 years away as he is only a sophomore in high school). We are trying to teach him responsibility and to make good choices.

 

Taking the iPod may not have been the best parenting thing we've done, but it's what came to mind when we found that he had deliberately disobeyed us.

This parenting gig is HARD!!! I love the fact that there is a forum where we can discuss and help each other out on this road.

Rita

[Mrs Mungo]

I really like the song, "Pumped Up Kicks," because it's a good, catchy tune. But, I do feel guilty over the lyrics. It doesn't help that an acoustic version plays on the radio quite a bit. It is easier to hear and understand the lyrics in the acoustic version.

 

IMO, music, hair and clothes (within reason) are 3 areas where you are better off allowing "small" rebellions. Let him know you don't approve, that is where the rebellion comes in.

[Rita]

:iagree: With a 17 year old I'd be working hard to keep lines of communication open to foster an open relationship when he's an adult. Not that every behavior or choice a 17 year old might make should be over looked. Choice of music seems pretty small potatoes compared to some choices other kids might make at this age. If this is his biggest rebellion, you are one lucky parent. :grouphug:

 

I agree that he has not gone totally wild in his choice of rebellion, and am so incredibly thankful for that!

[Parrothead]

:iagree: With a 17 year old I'd be working hard to keep lines of communication open to foster an open relationship when he's an adult. Not that every behavior or choice a 17 year old might make should be over looked. Choice of music seems pretty small potatoes compared to some choices other kids might make at this age. If this is his biggest rebellion, you are one lucky parent. :grouphug:

:iagree:The only thing I would add is that instead of taking away his stuff, he has to agree that he doesn't share it with younger sibs.

 

 

ETA:

Yes, he is now at the age he will question things. You need to pray for him now. Set a good example without preaching at him. Hopefully he will come out the other side with a faith stronger than when all this started.

[ktgrok]

How about a compromise. Acknowledge that at his age his music taste is his own. That you are disappointed that he would listen/buy this, and support it with his money, but that it is his choice. However, you own the home and it is your right to say you do not want this in your home. What he listens to outside the home is his business, but he cannot have that music in your home.

[Rita]

I really like the song, "Pumped Up Kicks," because it's a good, catchy tune. But, I do feel guilty over the lyrics. It doesn't help that an acoustic version plays on the radio quite a bit. It is easier to hear and understand the lyrics in the acoustic version.

 

IMO, music, hair and clothes (within reason) are 3 areas where you are better off allowing "small" rebellions. Let him know you don't approve, that is where the rebellion comes in.

 

He did the hair thing at 15 1/2...bleached it totally blond (he's naturally dark). Clothes haven't been an issue (much)....We've never battled his hair, cause I figure it'll grow out :lol:

[Rita]

:iagree:The only thing I would add is that instead of taking away his stuff, he has to agree that he doesn't share it with younger sibs.

 

 

ETA:

Yes, he is now at the age he will question things. You need to pray for him now. Set a good example without preaching at him. Hopefully he will come out the other side with a faith stronger than when all this started.

 

I don't believe I have ever prayed so consistently for him, so that is a very good thing.

Younger brother can't stand older brother's music, so that's not an issue (at the moment...younger bro just turned 15...his turn is coming)

[Amy in NH]

 

IMO, music, hair and clothes (within reason) are 3 areas where you are better off allowing "small" rebellions. Let him know you don't approve, that is where the rebellion comes in.

 

:iagree:

 

IMO, you are being unreasonable, you will ultimately lose this battle, and you will damage your relationship with your son in the meantime. You've already let him know you disapprove. Make him use headphones and then drop it; choice of music is just not that important.

 

And honestly, interviews with the band show them to be reasonable young musicians looking to make a living. When I googled the band I didn't even see anything that would upset young children.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Amy in NH

[SweetMissMagnolia]

my dh listens to death metal too--I certainly don't like it and he knows it---on the other side he listens to my country music too....I agree with the others banning it will only make it more tempting to a kid....I agree with the headphone idea-that's what dh does....

[Rita]

:iagree:

 

IMO, you are being unreasonable, you will ultimately lose this battle, and you will damage your relationship with your son in the meantime. You've already let him know you disapprove. Make him use headphones and then drop it; choice of music is just not that important.

 

And honestly, interviews with the band show them to be reasonable young musicians looking to make a living. When I googled the band I didn't even see anything that would upset young children.

 

 

Amy, did you google Chelsea Grin? The fact that they named themselves after a torture method makes me wonder about them. Google their lyrics, any of their songs, but Crecabanger or Recreant are two that are telling examples of their thoughts.

[DianeW88]

He may not see your POV any time soon, but eventually, in a few years. By then, he will have moved out, work a job, possibly have a family.

I personally would not discipline an almost adult young man for his music taste. Yes, I would definitely discuss it, explain what I find objectionable, how the lyrics (which I did not look up) do not mesh with my family values - but I also know that listening to something with questionable lyrics in no way means that the young man is on the way to acting badly. I would really try to distinguish between the two things.

At this age, I personally would not resort to confiscating iPods etc. In one year, he will be on his own, making his own choices, listening to whatever he pleases. This is the time to prepare him for this independence. I would work to keep communication open, to enjoy this last year with my young adult. I would not choose to make this the battle that determines our relationship.

I might request that the music is only listened to on headphones and not played in the hearing of younger siblings who might be disturbed/confused by the lyrics.

 

:iagree:This is not a hill to die on with a 17 yo. In less than a year, he can do exactly what he wants...whether you like it or not. I would not ruin my relationship with my son over something so trivial. If he's not out doing drugs, drinking, having indescriminate sex, or committing crimes...count your blessings. And insist he wear headphones. This too, shall pass.

[Amy in NH]

Amy, did you google Chelsea Grin? The fact that they named themselves after a torture method makes me wonder about them. Google their lyrics, any of their songs, but Crecabanger or Recreant are two that are telling examples of their thoughts.

 

Yes, I did. I've never heard of them, I've never heard their music that I know of, and I actually did google some lyrics including Recreant.

 

Whether the lyrics are metaphorical, or they are someone poetically lashing out at a real person or event, they are only words. Actions speak louder than words.

 

Although I don't care for death metal myself, I do like progressive metal. My 14yo's musical tastes delve into death metal, hardcore, screamo, etc. But he's choosy about it. He likes some of the music, not necessarily the words.

 

Remember when Ozzy Osbourne was the big musical evil? Now he's an old fogey, somewhat of a joke. We who listened to him then are now productive members of society, caring homeschooling parents, community leaders...

 

If you "eh" about it, he'll probably just listen to the songs he likes and eventually move on.

[Rita]

Yes, I did. I've never heard of them, I've never heard their music that I know of, and I actually did google some lyrics including Recreant.

 

Whether the lyrics are metaphorical, or they are someone poetically lashing out at a real person or event, they are only words. Actions speak louder than words.

 

Although I don't care for death metal myself, I do like progressive metal. My 14yo's musical tastes delve into death metal, hardcore, screamo, etc. But he's choosy about it. He likes some of the music, not necessarily the words.

 

Remember when Ozzy Osbourne was the big musical evil? Now he's an old fogey, somewhat of a joke. We who listened to him then are now productive members of society, caring homeschooling parents, community leaders...

 

If you "eh" about it, he'll probably just listen to the songs he likes and eventually move on.

 

Can you list some of the bands you 14yo listens to?

 

I'm trying really hard to "eh" about it, but, boy, is that DIFFICULT.

 

Great point about actions speaking louder than words, because he really is a terrific young adult. BUT, words are much more long lasting than actions. Think about when you have been hurt in the past...it's usually not a physical punch that you remember, but times when you were called a name, or told something hateful. Words stick in your head for a long time.

[elegantlion]

Amy, did you google Chelsea Grin? The fact that they named themselves after a torture method makes me wonder about them. Google their lyrics, any of their songs, but Crecabanger or Recreant are two that are telling examples of their thoughts.

 

I looked at the lyrics for both. Crude and dark, but nothing that particularly shocks me.

 

Iron Maiden is a torture device and a band as well. They're not original in that sense.

 

Here's my very unscientific take:

 

1. He likes the music, doesn't love the lyrics, but isn't about to tell you because he's 17.

 

2. He doesn't really like either, but it's a way to rebel that doesn't actually cause chaos and long term consequences.

 

3. He doesn't like them, but is pushing boundaries.

 

4. He is not perfect. He has had dark thoughts, maybe similar to the lyrics of this musics. He listens because someone understands.

 

4B. He's testing you. He's not perfect in thought and/or deed, and wants to know if you will accept him in a less than perfect state.

 

4C. He's testing the "love your neighbor as yourself" part of his faith. Can you love him, can you see this band as individuals instead as of an instrument of hate?

 

I've never heard this band, maybe I have, I listen to metal rock on the radio. Really, shock and awe in lyrics have been around forever. There was a recent thread on music from the 70s. We love 70s rock (80s too)around here, but some of the lyrics have me raising an eyebrow, and I'm not that conservative.

[Parrothead]

I don't believe I have ever prayed so consistently for him, so that is a very good thing.

Younger brother can't stand older brother's music, so that's not an issue (at the moment...younger bro just turned 15...his turn is coming)

:grouphug: St. Monica is a good example for us moms to follow. Her hedonistic rebellious son - St. Augustine of Hippo

[Rita]

I looked at the lyrics for both. Crude and dark, but nothing that particularly shocks me.

 

Iron Maiden is a torture device and a band as well. They're not original in that sense.

 

Here's my very unscientific take:

 

1. He likes the music, doesn't love the lyrics, but isn't about to tell you because he's 17.

 

2. He doesn't really like either, but it's a way to rebel that doesn't actually cause chaos and long term consequences.

 

3. He doesn't like them, but is pushing boundaries.

 

4. He is not perfect. He has had dark thoughts, maybe similar to the lyrics of this musics. He listens because someone understands.

 

4B. He's testing you. He's not perfect in thought and/or deed, and wants to know if you will accept him in a less than perfect state.

 

4C. He's testing the "love your neighbor as yourself" part of his faith. Can you love him, can you see this band as individuals instead as of an instrument of hate?

 

I've never heard this band, maybe I have, I listen to metal rock on the radio. Really, shock and awe in lyrics have been around forever. There was a recent thread on music from the 70s. We love 70s rock (80s too)around here, but some of the lyrics have me raising an eyebrow, and I'm not that conservative.

 

excellent points, and thanks for the unscientific take on it. We've thought some of those points, but hadn't sat down and wrote it out. I appreciate your insights.

[Rita]

:grouphug: St. Monica is a good example for us moms to follow. Her hedonistic rebellious son - St. Augustine of Hippo

 

I have thought about her over the last couple of months!

[LibraryLover]

Yes. All of this. I wanted to bold it all, really.

 

He may not see your POV any time soon, but eventually, in a few years. By then, he will have moved out, work a job, possibly have a family.

I personally would not discipline an almost adult young man for his music taste. Yes, I would definitely discuss it, explain what I find objectionable, how the lyrics (which I did not look up) do not mesh with my family values - but I also know that listening to something with questionable lyrics in no way means that the young man is on the way to acting badly. I would really try to distinguish between the two things.

At this age, I personally would not resort to confiscating iPods etc. In one year, he will be on his own, making his own choices, listening to whatever he pleases. This is the time to prepare him for this independence. I would work to keep communication open, to enjoy this last year with my young adult. I would not choose to make this the battle that determines our relationship.

I might request that the music is only listened to on headphones and not played in the hearing of younger siblings who might be disturbed/confused by the lyrics.

[mommaduck]

Two things here:

 

1) the music. There is a lot of good (as in well written, creative, well performed) music out there that happens to be ruined by the lyrics. I'd love to get hold of certain music minus lyrics. It's not the music that is bad, it's the lyrics (though I know certain fundamentalist that hold to a "all 2nd and 4th beats are evil, but stress on the 1st and 3rd aka marches are not" mentality or the "if it makes you want to move or tap your foot then it's of the devil"...didn't work too well when I pointed out how many men I'd seen tap their foot to old hymns in church :P ).

 

2) the lyrics and his age. It is possible that he is questioning what he was taught to believe. Honestly, I'd be worried if he hadn't ever taken time to struggle with this. Sometimes we use music and other times books, etc during this struggle. If he just goes along because that's what he's been told all his life, then I would worry more. I strongly believe in "owning your faith". This is beyond the fact that mom and dad taught him this or because the preacher says something is interpreted a certain way. You can walk along side and dialogue with him through this stage. However, I don't see removing and disciplining him over it as something that will make him land on the side of the struggle you believe he should. BTW, I believe there are some metal music that do have positive messages also...I'll have to talk with dh on that one. He's the one that used to be into metal, secular and Christian, when we were young.

[bbkaren]

If it were me, I'd hesitate to make this a major issue.

 

I like to choose my battles, and this isn't one I find important.

 

I can't stand death metal, but I believe just like when we listened to Black Sabbath as kids, it's the fact that it's "bad" by grownup standards makes it that much more appealing.

 

His taste in music will refine and he'll tire of it...unless it becomes something he has to fight for.

[Guest submarines]

I can't stand heavy metal. It deafens me. I read the lyrics. Recreant is decent in terms of content, and expresses feelings that many of us have, at one point or another. The only "issue" that I can see with it is the f-word, but really, it is pretty mild compared to other things.

 

"My ****ation" (a random song I looked up) has also decent lyrics. I guess I see the words as metaphorical. Not a big deal at all.

[ma23peas]

He has been raised in a Christian home, and has made a profession for Christ, but is now really questioning if there is a God :(

The trusted family I mentioned in the OP is the associate pastor of our church. He and his wife have raised 3 boys, run a group home (twice) for troubled teens, and my son ADORES them. We have asked them to talk with him, and they have.

I agree with the fact that we have given him a solid point for attack. When he first started down the heavy metal path, we did try to just accept it. It wasn't until the death metal started that we put our foot down.

 

Hindsight is 20/20...as parents we should never just try and accept something our kids are doing that is questionable. Teen or no. I'm guilty, I realized that Xbox and the games were addicting to my son, but who was there to reward him with a new game for a birthday? ME! UGH!

 

I stepped in and parented...I sold the Wii and the 30 games, I've taken away the Xbox (whatever offends thee pluck it out, does not say tolerate it!) for 6 months...the first 3 months were not very 'fun'..but son stayed respectful...by the 4th month, we saw changes, he became active in something that kept him physically fit (not Xbox of course) and he began to see things differently, we asked him if he would want the Xbox back (idiot mom) and HE said, "No, mom that was not good for me." I'm sorry, but the 'son' you are dealing with is not the same son you raised when he is listening to that stuff..it is a hindrance to his growth (spiritually, morally, physically...) as a parent, you can not let that happen. I think it's serious, you should act as if it's serious and take an action. If it were my son, I would forbid it (I do not believe in what is taken away they want more...sure, my son wanted the Xbox more when I took it away, but the end result is you want you child to follow Philippians 4:8..he made a profession of faith, He has an obligation...he is failing that obligation and as his parent/fellow believer, it is your job to help him find his way back.)

 

We have come full circle with our 'Xbox'...we had friends of our daughters come to spend the night and they brough Dance Central...we felt badly that due to my son's lack of self control, his sisters (who never had a problem with it) were being punished by having all their 'good' Wii games sold and we felt our son had 'learned' his lesson, even before pulling it out, I went to him and said, we are considering letting it back 'out' for the girls' sake, they knew we pulled it out of love for you and never complained...are you able to not let this become the thorn in your side that erupted in poor behavior (failure to do school work, able to lie about finishing school work, disrespect towards us parents etc.)..He was very polite and considerate...we have had it 'back' for about 4 weeks now, he ONLY plays it on weekends or on holidays, it's not become a beast...but we told him it's gone if it does. He respects that, he can look back and now see fellow friends who are still 'addicted' and feels sorry for them. He's keeping up his workouts, (works out 8 hours a week for a team sport) and his grades are great...

 

But, if we had just 'let' him do what he wanted....we would have been failing him.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

:grouphug: St. Monica is a good example for us moms to follow. Her hedonistic rebellious son - St. Augustine of Hippo

 

So true.

 

OP, I would not be OK with that choice of music. In my opinion, there is such a thing as evil, and depraved music is evil. I would be horrified to have anyone under my roof listening to that or wanting to listen to it.

 

That said, I wouldn't start with banning or confiscating. As a matter of fact, I'd resolve to say not one word about his music from this moment forward.

 

Because the music is not the problem.

 

If your son is listening to Satanic music, he is not walking with Christ. You can't do both at once. The point is not to control what goes into his heart, but to do your best to win him to Christ.

 

That is a separate matter from the music, or appearance, or anything external.

 

The music is not defiling him. It is answering something already in his heart. That's what Jesus said, that it's not what goes into a man that defiles him but the wickedness that proceeds from his own heart.

 

So what to do?

 

How would you go about witnessing to a teen just like him who was not your son? Would you spend as much time with him as possible, sharing your testimony about your own salvation in Christ, truly accepting him, truly loving him, trying to rub off on him because you want him to have what you have...would you look for positive friends and influences, and find ways to help him mature as a person and possibly move toward saving faith in Christ?

 

If that's what you'd do for a "worldly" teen, then that is what you should do for your own precious boy. The time for controlling his environment is past. You can do it for a little boy but not a teen.

 

I know you are praying. I'll pray for your son, too, and for patience and wisdom for you. It is the rare teen who doesn't drive his Mama to her knees, literally, praying for him to get through these years relatively unscathed.

[Rita]

Two things here:

 

1) the music. There is a lot of good (as in well written, creative, well performed) music out there that happens to be ruined by the lyrics. I'd love to get hold of certain music minus lyrics. It's not the music that is bad, it's the lyrics (though I know certain fundamentalist that hold to a "all 2nd and 4th beats are evil, but stress on the 1st and 3rd aka marches are not" mentality or the "if it makes you want to move or tap your foot then it's of the devil"...didn't work too well when I pointed out how many men I'd seen tap their foot to old hymns in church :P ).

 

2) the lyrics and his age. It is possible that he is questioning what he was taught to believe. Honestly, I'd be worried if he hadn't ever taken time to struggle with this. Sometimes we use music and other times books, etc during this struggle. If he just goes along because that's what he's been told all his life, then I would worry more. I strongly believe in "owning your faith". This is beyond the fact that mom and dad taught him this or because the preacher says something is interpreted a certain way. You can walk along side and dialogue with him through this stage. However, I don't see removing and disciplining him over it as something that will make him land on the side of the struggle you believe he should. BTW, I believe there are some metal music that do have positive messages also...I'll have to talk with dh on that one. He's the one that used to be into metal, secular and Christian, when we were young.

 

I wish I knew how to respond to you in your response!

 

1. Totally agree with what I bolded. I've told him that I like the music, just not the lyrics, and if he could find heavy (or even death) metal stuff that had no lyrics, I'd listen to it with him!

 

2. I couldn't agree more that he needs to own his own faith. We've talked with him about that....he needs to have a personal relationship with Jesus, not his parents' relationship. I had never thought about the fact that he might be using the music, etc during this time (what I bolded and underlined in your response).

And just simply agreeing with the underlined sentences.

 

It's so helpful to hash this out with others who have been there/done that, or just have a viewpoint about the situation.

[Rita]

So true.

 

OP, I would not be OK with that choice of music. In my opinion, there is such a thing as evil, and depraved music is evil. I would be horrified to have anyone under my roof listening to that or wanting to listen to it.

 

That said, I wouldn't start with banning or confiscating. As a matter of fact, I'd resolve to say not one word about his music from this moment forward.

 

Because the music is not the problem.

 

If your son is listening to Satanic music, he is not walking with Christ. You can't do both at once. The point is not to control what goes into his heart, but to do your best to win him to Christ.

 

That is a separate matter from the music, or appearance, or anything external.

 

The music is not defiling him. It is answering something already in his heart. That's what Jesus said, that it's not what goes into a man that defiles him but the wickedness that proceeds from his own heart.

 

So what to do?

 

How would you go about witnessing to a teen just like him who was not your son? Would you spend as much time with him as possible, sharing your testimony about your own salvation in Christ, truly accepting him, truly loving him, trying to rub off on him because you want him to have what you have...would you look for positive friends and influences, and find ways to help him mature as a person and possibly move toward saving faith in Christ?

If that's what you'd do for a "worldly" teen, then that is what you should do for your own precious boy. The time for controlling his environment is past. You can do it for a little boy but not a teen.

 

I know you are praying. I'll pray for your son, too, and for patience and wisdom for you. It is the rare teen who doesn't drive his Mama to her knees, literally, praying for him to get through these years relatively unscathed.

 

First off, thank you for praying for him and for me. :grouphug:

 

Secondly, he has already told us he doesn't "want religion stuffed down his throat"...so I am not. What I am doing is trying to love him, and let him know that he is deeply loved regardless of his music choices. We don't refrain from mentioning Christ (never have, never will), we pray out loud before we eat, we try to make our relationship with the Lord alive (we always have). He still attends church with us without being asked....at least 2 Saturdays each month he and his brother spend the night with the associate pastor and his wife (they are like surrogate grandparents to our boys)....they both ask/beg to go over there. We are so blessed in that regard that we have other Godly people whom the boys adore.

 

Thank you for your insight and prayers!

[KungFuPanda]

I wouldn't let his musical choices effect your relationship. He'll be a legal adult in a matter of months. It's a losing battle to censor what he listens to. Limiting his choices won't prevent him from having a morbid fascination with darker subjects. Would you be putting down your foot so hard if he were reading gruesome accounts of Holocaust atrocities? That could be much more jarring because it wasn't made up, but could be viewed as scholarly interest.

 

Some people are less effected by gruesome details. That doesn't mean they're destined to be serial killers. The world needs morticians, surgeons, and homicide detectives too! People like me, who get queasy at the thought of a dead body, are not the ones the world can rely on in an unsavory situation. 'Desensitized' doesn't always equal bad. In some ways it can prevent a person from being a raw nerve to an ugly world.

 

Of course the music is garbage, but he's at an age where you have to start letting go. I'm guessing this phase will pass MUCH more quickly if you don't drag it out with a fight.

[Jumping In Puddles]

1. Totally agree with what I bolded. I've told him that I like the music, just not the lyrics, and if he could find heavy (or even death) metal stuff that had no lyrics, I'd listen to it with him!

 

 

I listened to a few of their songs and I couldn't understand one word. Not one!

 

He probably likes the energy in the music and the rebellious nature of the genre and others with teens have given you some great insight and advice already that I want to keep in mind when my kids are older. :grouphug:

 

You like the music? Really? :ack2: :tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie::lol:

[Riverland]

We certainly had teenage struggles in this house, but not pertaining to music. I think I would handle it by saying "There are certain things that we choose not to allow in our house. This type of music is one of them." 

[kiana]

I will say that there are some metal songs where the lyrics are a lot less offensive -- not as familiar with death metal as I really, really hate the screaming and therefore don't listen to it.

 

But for example, Manowar -- Fight for Freedom, Warriors of the World, Die with Honor -- Iron Maiden -- Journeyman, Aces High, Paschendale are some of my personal favourite songs and have spoken quite deeply to me at certain points of my life.

 

(Please note I'm not recommending you give anything w/o listening, nor am I recommending everything by these bands -- but their songs are not about mutilation etc. Manowar's militaristic and a bit norse-neo-pagan, although the songs I listed don't mention the neo-pagan. Maiden's a bit more diverse theme-wise and I really, really like the songs I mentioned.)

Edited February 9, 2012 by kiana

[Wendi]

:grouphug:

 

I can relate to your post. My son went through a "death metal" phase when he was 13/14 years old. We didn't let him listen to anything with explicit lyrics. (As if anyone could understand the lyrics on most of the songs anyway!) I did have conversations with him about having balance, that a steady diet of this music might not be a healthy thing, especially (in his case) for someone who struggles with his temper. He agreed, and said he didn't listen to it all the time, that he was still listening to other kinds of music (in his case, J-pop and techno). We did try to find some Christian heavy metal groups he would like; one of them was Demon Hunter.

 

We have always talked about media choices as being like food choices: some are definitely good for you, some are definitely bad for you, and some are kind of like baked Lays potato chips - a better choice, but still not terribly healthy. :001_smile: So we did have conversations about looking at his total media "diet".

 

Eventually, in my son's case, he did start choosing more upbeat music (lots of techno). Now he thinks it's weird that he was ever into heavy metal. He's a big fan of dubstep and other kinds of electronic music. I'm not a big dubstep fan, but the lyrics are mostly innocuous (at least what ds is listening to). Some of the techno I actually like. Recently my son has become a fan of a French techno group called Yelle, and now he wants to learn French because he thinks it's such a beautiful language! :001_smile:

 

I can see arguments for both kinds of reactions advocated here. In some cases, especially with a 17-year-old who is otherwise well-behaved and respectful, just letting him know how you feel about the music, and requiring him to keep it away from the younger kids, makes sense. He is, after all, almost an adult. However, sometimes you do have to go to battle. And with younger kids in the house, will they want to start listening to this stuff at a younger age, and give you a hard time because you allowed their older brother? I don't know. I've only got one kid!

 

As far as his questioning his faith goes, I do agree that you need to love him, keep a close relationship, and share your faith when he's receptive to it. That he's still going to church says a lot, I think. You're so blessed with that other family that loves him and welcomes him. I have found that some Christians are quick to shun and reject a teen who's questioning and rebelling, and to judge the parents for it. (Ask me how I know. :glare: )

 

:grouphug:

Wendi

[SailorMom]

I'm trying very hard not to judge my older DS's choice in music :banghead:

 

Anyway-

Just as an "it will probably be ok" story -

My cousin used to listen to music, that at the time (in the 80's) was considered absolutely vile. His parents were worried they were becoming Satanists, as everyone said if you played the music backwards the lyrics were satanic (we could never get that to work...)

He wore all black, had posters of the bands on their walls, etc. etc. Bad hair and clothes, too :)

 

Anyway - he just finished his Doctorate of Divinity last year.

 

I'm not saying the lyrics are not atrocious. They are. Hopefully this is a phase, and once he works through it, he'll grow out of the music.

[Remudamom]

My boys are 17 and I banned rap from the house. Two reasons, I don't like rap and I despise Eminem's lyrics. They moaned a bit but respected the rule.

 

I don't know who it is that your son is listening too, but I don't allow trash in the house. And no Eminem on my kid's iPods until they are moved out of here. I tolerate some of the other crap they listen to so that they get to listen to some stuff they want to.

 

But I catch them playing John Denver now and then on their guitars. That I can take.

[curlylocks]

Hindsight is 20/20...as parents we should never just try and accept something our kids are doing that is questionable. Teen or no. I'm guilty, I realized that Xbox and the games were addicting to my son, but who was there to reward him with a new game for a birthday? ME! UGH!

 

I stepped in and parented...I sold the Wii and the 30 games, I've taken away the Xbox (whatever offends thee pluck it out, does not say tolerate it!) for 6 months...the first 3 months were not very 'fun'..but son stayed respectful...by the 4th month, we saw changes, he became active in something that kept him physically fit (not Xbox of course) and he began to see things differently, we asked him if he would want the Xbox back (idiot mom) and HE said, "No, mom that was not good for me." I'm sorry, but the 'son' you are dealing with is not the same son you raised when he is listening to that stuff..it is a hindrance to his growth (spiritually, morally, physically...) as a parent, you can not let that happen. I think it's serious, you should act as if it's serious and take an action. If it were my son, I would forbid it (I do not believe in what is taken away they want more...sure, my son wanted the Xbox more when I took it away, but the end result is you want you child to follow Philippians 4:8..he made a profession of faith, He has an obligation...he is failing that obligation and as his parent/fellow believer, it is your job to help him find his way back.)

 

We have come full circle with our 'Xbox'...we had friends of our daughters come to spend the night and they brough Dance Central...we felt badly that due to my son's lack of self control, his sisters (who never had a problem with it) were being punished by having all their 'good' Wii games sold and we felt our son had 'learned' his lesson, even before pulling it out, I went to him and said, we are considering letting it back 'out' for the girls' sake, they knew we pulled it out of love for you and never complained...are you able to not let this become the thorn in your side that erupted in poor behavior (failure to do school work, able to lie about finishing school work, disrespect towards us parents etc.)..He was very polite and considerate...we have had it 'back' for about 4 weeks now, he ONLY plays it on weekends or on holidays, it's not become a beast...but we told him it's gone if it does. He respects that, he can look back and now see fellow friends who are still 'addicted' and feels sorry for them. He's keeping up his workouts, (works out 8 hours a week for a team sport) and his grades are great...

 

But, if we had just 'let' him do what he wanted....we would have been failing him.

 

:grouphug: - just wanted to say, "Thank You" for sharing this.

 

So true.

 

OP, I would not be OK with that choice of music. In my opinion, there is such a thing as evil, and depraved music is evil. I would be horrified to have anyone under my roof listening to that or wanting to listen to it.

 

That said, I wouldn't start with banning or confiscating. As a matter of fact, I'd resolve to say not one word about his music from this moment forward.

 

Because the music is not the problem.

 

If your son is listening to Satanic music, he is not walking with Christ. You can't do both at once. The point is not to control what goes into his heart, but to do your best to win him to Christ.

 

That is a separate matter from the music, or appearance, or anything external.

 

The music is not defiling him. It is answering something already in his heart. That's what Jesus said, that it's not what goes into a man that defiles him but the wickedness that proceeds from his own heart.

 

So what to do?

 

How would you go about witnessing to a teen just like him who was not your son? Would you spend as much time with him as possible, sharing your testimony about your own salvation in Christ, truly accepting him, truly loving him, trying to rub off on him because you want him to have what you have...would you look for positive friends and influences, and find ways to help him mature as a person and possibly move toward saving faith in Christ?

 

If that's what you'd do for a "worldly" teen, then that is what you should do for your own precious boy. The time for controlling his environment is past. You can do it for a little boy but not a teen.

 

I know you are praying. I'll pray for your son, too, and for patience and wisdom for you. It is the rare teen who doesn't drive his Mama to her knees, literally, praying for him to get through these years relatively unscathed.

 

:iagree: -- praying!!

[Laurie4b]

If he isn't allowed to make choices without external pressure from you, he gets no practice making choices. His moral muscles stay flacid. It is the difference between a physical therapist moving a leg and someone walking on their own leg. There will come a day when he's no longer in your home. If he has flacid muscles, he'll have no strength to fight temptation.

 

Let it be his choice so that it IS a choice. No consequences from you. Limit your involvement to praying for him, and offering some feedback (which you have done). I would save any consequences for stuff like drugs or speeding tickets. We raise our sons with their final year at home as one in which they are essentially on their own, with us here providing a safety net in case of big mistakes. But since the next year they are on their own, we prefer they actually have practice under our roof.

 

I am coming from a theologically conservative Christian position.

[ma23peas]

Oh, I just have to share one of those gut wrenching but empowering statements my son said when we took the Xbox away for a loong time...

 

Here is the scenario...

Come home from taking the girls to their scouting or dancing, son was to have finished xyz...I go to the table to check his work and see if he needed any help and realize he had done NOTHING for 3 hours!! I tell him that Dad knows how to see if he's been playing Xbox and to come clean...he said, "Yes, that's all I did."

 

Mom gets furious because she KNEW it was too much temptation but he was 16, right? We have been here before...the long discussions about building trust and doing the right thing...he assured us that he would do better, when he failed we would get, "You guys don't give me a chance"..so dumb mom, thought, "Hey, let's do what he says and give him a chance."

 

Well, this chance was epic fail. So, what is my 'go to?" God. I sat him down and with my stern eyes asked him how he could so easily disobey his mom. Did he not know that I was giving him a chance and an opportunity to show he was responsible, just the thing he said we never did? I then of course, again mention that these are not my rules but God's rules for us...here is the phrase that came out of his mouth.

 

"OH! There you go with all that God crap again."

 

Ladies, the lava boiling in my innerds just added a mentos to it....if anyone remembers the scene in Everybody Loves Raymond where Marie was called a b***h by Robert's then wife..well, that was where I wanted to go with it. But, somehow, I used the excess 'energy' to sit that boy down and have a come to Jesus meeting. Boy, I went in to the sacrifice our savior gave for him, the countless times that that 'God crap' has saved his behind..how God provided amazing things for him in his lowest times...(ya see, they don't realize all those things when they're not getting what they want, you have to remind them)...but I was FIERCE about my defense of his and our faith! I did not 'let it go'....we had a tent revival right in our living room.

 

I honestly believe my strong, honest, defense of our faith is what shocked some sense into this son. He honestly felt remorse, he was no longer mad at me and dad but at himself for his selfishness...then of course, I had to change gears and go into the 'we are all sinners'...that is the reason God is so great, he puts up with our crap!

 

It's a fine line trying to teach our sons to be leaders, make wise choices, and be faith filled men...sinners leading sinners...but to leave God out of it is a big mistake...with Him we can do all things, without Him...well, just look around our country right now.

 

This same son, just a few weeks ago, received a praise from a parent I knew. It came out of the blue, she wrote me a specific incident where our son had deeply touched theirs with his kindness and compassion....a year ago, that was filled with angst/teen rebellion/sinful guidance, but in just a year's time..our sweet boy is back in spades...I'm sure we're not out of the woods yet, I still question our decision to bring Xbox back in, selfishly I wanted it for a fitness program that is quite a lot of fun and keeping me on track for my fitness goals...but, the son I see now with it and the son I had a year ago with it are two different boys, God's role in that is the main reason...so don't leave Him out of it.

[Joanne]

Developmentally, he is at an expected stage. Sure, not every child goes through an overt "rebellion", but it is a known *stage*.

 

It would be counter productive to micro-manage.

 

It's important to know that there is not a direct line, or a trajectory between music choices (and questioning the God thing) and success as an adult.

 

It might be too much of a leap for you to engage with him about the music, though this would be best. Not to argue, but to understand why he likes it, how he processes the content, and to present a reasonable, non sermon like position on the lyrics. But know that it IS just music.

 

I'd have reasonable limits:

 

1. He may listen privately; it is not welcome in general areas of the home.

2. You reserve the right to remove privileges if grades go down, or attitude goes up.

3. You will not pay for the music.

 

He is learning and discovering and processing his thoughts and world view. He needs to go THROUGH this to get to the other side. I can guarantee he won't stay here. Practically the only ones who do make money with it. ;) But, in the meantime, don't be patronizing with it either. He's a thinking young man and his ideas and thoughts are worthy of discussion and consideration.

[mommymilkies]

He may not see your POV any time soon, but eventually, in a few years. By then, he will have moved out, work a job, possibly have a family.

I personally would not discipline an almost adult young man for his music taste. Yes, I would definitely discuss it, explain what I find objectionable, how the lyrics (which I did not look up) do not mesh with my family values - but I also know that listening to something with questionable lyrics in no way means that the young man is on the way to acting badly. I would really try to distinguish between the two things.

At this age, I personally would not resort to confiscating iPods etc. In one year, he will be on his own, making his own choices, listening to whatever he pleases. This is the time to prepare him for this independence. I would work to keep communication open, to enjoy this last year with my young adult. I would not choose to make this the battle that determines our relationship.

I might request that the music is only listened to on headphones and not played in the hearing of younger siblings who might be disturbed/confused by the lyrics.

:iagree:

[bnrmom]

:iagree:This is not a hill to die on with a 17 yo. In less than a year, he can do exactly what he wants...whether you like it or not. I would not ruin my relationship with my son over something so trivial. If he's not out doing drugs, drinking, having indescriminate sex, or committing crimes...count your blessings. And insist he wear headphones. This too, shall pass.

 

:iagree: (As an aside, my mom vividly remembers her mom banning Elvis because the hip gyrating was unacceptable.)

[HRAAB]

I think it's perfectly reasonable for parents to have rules enforcing their standards regarding music, movies, etc. in their house. We did. Those rules are the same whether they are 17 or 22 (my oldest is 22). There is music, movies, books that we do not want in our house, and they are not allowed in. If I found them, they would be removed. Now, I'm not fool enough to think I can control everything they listen to or watch. When my older ones were 17 they had cars and were driving to work, church and activities on their own. What they listened to in their cars or when with friends, I'm not sure. But my house, that's different. They knew up front what was allowed and what wasn't. We're not unreasonable parents, but we expect our standards and morals to be respected in our home. It didn't hurt our relationship with our older ones at all to have those rules, either. They knew it was parents' house, parents' rules. They are on their own now, when they're not over here visiting, making their own decisions, but they don't bring things into our home that we don't approve of.

[scrappyhappymama]

Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with banning certain media that you find offensive in your own home. Whether that be music with profane lyrics or movies or pictures or whatever it may be. I disagree with the notion that because he'll be on his own in a year or two, you cannot make rules about what he does now, in your home, under your authority.

 

I do think you have to tread carefully, and realize as others said that banning certain songs will probably make them more attractive to him. But if he were "into" internet pornography, would you refrain from banning it from your home, simply because it is alluring to him? Others may disagree, but I find music lyrics which glorify rape and mutilation and immorality to be just as poor an influence as visually unacceptable media.

 

I think it would be wise to focus with your son on WHY you would prefer he not fill his head with these messages. Perhaps study with him some of the biblical principles of protecting our minds and hearts from evil influences. "I will set no unclean thing before my eyes." During this time you have left with him, I'd focus on helping him to develop a conscience that may convict him to choose of his own will not to indulge in materials like these. Find ways to build relationship with him in positive areas, where you can agree. If his father is involved, perhaps he could have some heart to heart discussions with him about what it is to be a man of integrity in an immoral world and how it often involves making difficult choices not to engage in the same things as his peers.

[Susan C.]

Can you list some of the bands you 14yo listens to?

 

I'm trying really hard to "eh" about it, but, boy, is that DIFFICULT.

 

Great point about actions speaking louder than words, because he really is a terrific young adult. BUT, words are much more long lasting than actions. Think about when you have been hurt in the past...it's usually not a physical punch that you remember, but times when you were called a name, or told something hateful. Words stick in your head for a long time.

 

 

Mom of a 22 y/o college student living at home, no I don't know most of what he listens to. None of my business. I even gave him permission to have a piece of his own life that is his and not to be shared w/me (being at home means a lot is shared), and he is respectful of still being at home and absolutely no problem to us. You have to get to that point where they offer to share or ask for your input on their terms. (And watch your words if you don't like what they share). Ds still has his faith, but everyone he knows closely has left it. I'm really not worried about him, he has shown he is solid in his faith. I feel our relationship would not be as good if I hadn't given him room to be himself and find his own way.

 

In all kindness, back off..... you don't want to lose your terrific kid or have him want to fulfill your fears in frustration. Remember you are on his side and you should do what you can so he knows you are. (Taking his ipod doesn't qualify...).

[Rita]

Developmentally, he is at an expected stage. Sure, not every child goes through an overt "rebellion", but it is a known *stage*.

 

It would be counter productive to micro-manage.

 

It's important to know that there is not a direct line, or a trajectory between music choices (and questioning the God thing) and success as an adult.

It might be too much of a leap for you to engage with him about the music, though this would be best. Not to argue, but to understand why he likes it, how he processes the content, and to present a reasonable, non sermon like position on the lyrics. But know that it IS just music.

 

I'd have reasonable limits:

 

1. He may listen privately; it is not welcome in general areas of the home.

2. You reserve the right to remove privileges if grades go down, or attitude goes up.

3. You will not pay for the music.

 

He is learning and discovering and processing his thoughts and world view. He needs to go THROUGH this to get to the other side. I can guarantee he won't stay here. Practically the only ones who do make money with it. ;) But, in the meantime, don't be patronizing with it either. He's a thinking young man and his ideas and thoughts are worthy of discussion and consideration.

 

Replying to the bolded part of your comments:

We have done this with him. We have sat down on several occasions and honestly listened to the music and discussed the lyrics with him. We have asked him WHY he likes the lyrics, and his response is "I don't know". I am trying to get him to think about the why aspect of it, without it becoming a sermon.

I have to get off line here, but I value everyone's input into this! I will read all responses later on tonight :)