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Frustrated with my 17yods and his music choice (no little eyes)


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My ds22 loves the music itself and actually studies it, the mixing, chords, etc. He laughs about the lyrics and doesn't take them seriously. Maybe your son has an interest in guitar, drums, etc.?

 

There was a time I would have objected, luckily now, I'm just getting too old to get that uptight about it all.... and relaxed does work much better!

 

Do hang in there, its a journey, isn't it?

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He has been raised in a Christian home, and has made a profession for Christ, but is now really questioning if there is a God :(

The trusted family I mentioned in the OP is the associate pastor of our church. He and his wife have raised 3 boys, run a group home (twice) for troubled teens, and my son ADORES them. We have asked them to talk with him, and they have.

I agree with the fact that we have given him a solid point for attack. When he first started down the heavy metal path, we did try to just accept it. It wasn't until the death metal started that we put our foot down.

:grouphug: There are so many good resources for him. The pastor should have a ton of them available. Don't stifle his search for God. Mine was stifled and it took me fifteen years before I could finally look and see, and God is good. Questions that seem endless have answers :grouphug: He'll be stronger if he's allowed to ask.

 

Hey, dd said she could pen pal. She's all about apologetics :D

I really like the song, "Pumped Up Kicks," because it's a good, catchy tune. But, I do feel guilty over the lyrics. It doesn't help that an acoustic version plays on the radio quite a bit. It is easier to hear and understand the lyrics in the acoustic version.

 

IMO, music, hair and clothes (within reason) are 3 areas where you are better off allowing "small" rebellions. Let him know you don't approve, that is where the rebellion comes in.

:lol::iagree:

Oh, I just have to share one of those gut wrenching but empowering statements my son said when we took the Xbox away for a loong time...

 

Here is the scenario...

Come home from taking the girls to their scouting or dancing, son was to have finished xyz...I go to the table to check his work and see if he needed any help and realize he had done NOTHING for 3 hours!! I tell him that Dad knows how to see if he's been playing Xbox and to come clean...he said, "Yes, that's all I did."

 

Mom gets furious because she KNEW it was too much temptation but he was 16, right? We have been here before...the long discussions about building trust and doing the right thing...he assured us that he would do better, when he failed we would get, "You guys don't give me a chance"..so dumb mom, thought, "Hey, let's do what he says and give him a chance."

 

Well, this chance was epic fail. So, what is my 'go to?" God. I sat him down and with my stern eyes asked him how he could so easily disobey his mom. Did he not know that I was giving him a chance and an opportunity to show he was responsible, just the thing he said we never did? I then of course, again mention that these are not my rules but God's rules for us...here is the phrase that came out of his mouth.

 

"OH! There you go with all that God crap again."

 

Ladies, the lava boiling in my innerds just added a mentos to it....if anyone remembers the scene in Everybody Loves Raymond where Marie was called a b***h by Robert's then wife..well, that was where I wanted to go with it. But, somehow, I used the excess 'energy' to sit that boy down and have a come to Jesus meeting. Boy, I went in to the sacrifice our savior gave for him, the countless times that that 'God crap' has saved his behind..how God provided amazing things for him in his lowest times...(ya see, they don't realize all those things when they're not getting what they want, you have to remind them)...but I was FIERCE about my defense of his and our faith! I did not 'let it go'....we had a tent revival right in our living room.

 

I honestly believe my strong, honest, defense of our faith is what shocked some sense into this son. He honestly felt remorse, he was no longer mad at me and dad but at himself for his selfishness...then of course, I had to change gears and go into the 'we are all sinners'...that is the reason God is so great, he puts up with our crap!

 

It's a fine line trying to teach our sons to be leaders, make wise choices, and be faith filled men...sinners leading sinners...but to leave God out of it is a big mistake...with Him we can do all things, without Him...well, just look around our country right now.

 

This same son, just a few weeks ago, received a praise from a parent I knew. It came out of the blue, she wrote me a specific incident where our son had deeply touched theirs with his kindness and compassion....a year ago, that was filled with angst/teen rebellion/sinful guidance, but in just a year's time..our sweet boy is back in spades...I'm sure we're not out of the woods yet, I still question our decision to bring Xbox back in, selfishly I wanted it for a fitness program that is quite a lot of fun and keeping me on track for my fitness goals...but, the son I see now with it and the son I had a year ago with it are two different boys, God's role in that is the main reason...so don't leave Him out of it.

God bless you. Sweet woman :D

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Idk. I have a 17 year old and I would not hesitate to remove his iPhone and computer access if I found inappropriate material on it. (and I'm not terribly strict, so it's not like any bad word or short skirt would qualify)

 

But we have explained to our sons that it isn't just about what is or is not appropriate for them, but for them to influence their younger siblings with. Little people do peer over shoulders, sneak into rooms to look at big siblings stuff, electronics are left out accidentally and little people pick the up and look. Our standard rule is that if they would be ashamed to be the cause of their 3 year old sister imitating them - they shouldn't do it or have it.

 

Usually that alone is enough without making it a personal attack of their choices. Whether we agree on the music or not, we can usually agree it isn't appropriate for little ones to be exposed to accidentally or otherwise.

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Originally Posted by ma23peas

Hindsight is 20/20...as parents we should never just try and accept something our kids are doing that is questionable. Teen or no. I'm guilty, I realized that Xbox and the games were addicting to my son, but who was there to reward him with a new game for a birthday? ME! UGH!

 

I stepped in and parented...I sold the Wii and the 30 games, I've taken away the Xbox (whatever offends thee pluck it out, does not say tolerate it!) for 6 months...the first 3 months were not very 'fun'..but son stayed respectful...by the 4th month, we saw changes, he became active in something that kept him physically fit (not Xbox of course) and he began to see things differently, we asked him if he would want the Xbox back (idiot mom) and HE said, "No, mom that was not good for me." I'm sorry, but the 'son' you are dealing with is not the same son you raised when he is listening to that stuff..it is a hindrance to his growth (spiritually, morally, physically...) as a parent, you can not let that happen. I think it's serious, you should act as if it's serious and take an action. If it were my son, I would forbid it (I do not believe in what is taken away they want more...sure, my son wanted the Xbox more when I took it away, but the end result is you want you child to follow Philippians 4:8..he made a profession of faith, He has an obligation...he is failing that obligation and as his parent/fellow believer, it is your job to help him find his way back.)

 

We have come full circle with our 'Xbox'...we had friends of our daughters come to spend the night and they brough Dance Central...we felt badly that due to my son's lack of self control, his sisters (who never had a problem with it) were being punished by having all their 'good' Wii games sold and we felt our son had 'learned' his lesson, even before pulling it out, I went to him and said, we are considering letting it back 'out' for the girls' sake, they knew we pulled it out of love for you and never complained...are you able to not let this become the thorn in your side that erupted in poor behavior (failure to do school work, able to lie about finishing school work, disrespect towards us parents etc.)..He was very polite and considerate...we have had it 'back' for about 4 weeks now, he ONLY plays it on weekends or on holidays, it's not become a beast...but we told him it's gone if it does. He respects that, he can look back and now see fellow friends who are still 'addicted' and feels sorry for them. He's keeping up his workouts, (works out 8 hours a week for a team sport) and his grades are great...

 

But, if we had just 'let' him do what he wanted....we would have been failing him.

 

This is an EXCELLENT post on how to deal with screen/gaming addiction.

 

But it's not the same thing as the OP.

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My youngest sister loves rap. Rap and country. :lol:

 

As an adult she mainly listens to country, but from age 12 to age 19 it was rap all the way. My mom never banned it outright, (although she refused to buy it, and so DSis was unable to procur anything with terribly explicit lyrics), but she told my sister she didn't want to be able to hear it throughout the house. There was one album that Mom absolutely could not stand, but she knew if she said that it would be a thing. One day when my sister was listening to the offensive album, my mom steped into sister's room, listened for a few minutes and asked my sister if she could get a copy of that song to listen to in the minivan. Strangely enough that album fell out of rotation after Mom expressed interest in it. :tongue_smilie:

 

While I do not think that is the solution to your problem, I do know that it is possible to turn this issue into a battle that no one wins. If you believe he has truly heard you on this, I would reiterate your boundaries about that music in your home and then tell him you trust him to make good choices. Give him the freedom to find his own way with this. Make it clear that you will respect his personal boundaries and decisions, and, when he complies with your household rules about this music, let him know you are proud and apreciative of how he respects your's.

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My father, a church pastor, had a radio show in the 1970's called Religion and Rock n Roll. He played lots of music that parents and others might have found offensive/not Christian enough. I think he would say that what is important is to understand the "why" of the music. Why is it so compelling? Why is it speaking to certain kids? What are the musicians actually trying to say? Why are they spreading a certain message?

 

Right now the music is dark and forbidden and mysterious to your son. If you take the light out and shine it on the music it may lose much of its allure. Sit with him. Listen together. Ask him why he finds it interesting. Does he really just like the sound...and not really even know the lyrics? Or are the lyrics speaking to him on some level. Discuss it. Don't ban it. use the music as a way to understand who your son is, who he is becoming, what he is thinking about, what he is concerned about.

 

Believe me, nothing makes music less cool than when your mother wants to sit down and discuss it!

 

BTW - this doesn't just apply to death metal. There is much to be worried about/offended by in just regular old pop music. Violence, women-hating, and more are the backbone of much popular music. Like Mrs. Mungo said, one of the catchiest songs right now is about a kid who gets a gun and threatens other kids with it. "All the other kids with the pumped up kicks, better run, better run, faster than my gun."

 

Good luck!

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Hindsight is 20/20...as parents we should never just try and accept something our kids are doing that is questionable. Teen or no. I'm guilty, I realized that Xbox and the games were addicting to my son, but who was there to reward him with a new game for a birthday? ME! UGH!

 

I stepped in and parented...I sold the Wii and the 30 games, I've taken away the Xbox (whatever offends thee pluck it out, does not say tolerate it!) for 6 months...the first 3 months were not very 'fun'..but son stayed respectful...by the 4th month, we saw changes, he became active in something that kept him physically fit (not Xbox of course) and he began to see things differently, we asked him if he would want the Xbox back (idiot mom) and HE said, "No, mom that was not good for me." I'm sorry, but the 'son' you are dealing with is not the same son you raised when he is listening to that stuff..it is a hindrance to his growth (spiritually, morally, physically...) as a parent, you can not let that happen. I think it's serious, you should act as if it's serious and take an action. If it were my son, I would forbid it (I do not believe in what is taken away they want more...sure, my son wanted the Xbox more when I took it away, but the end result is you want you child to follow Philippians 4:8..he made a profession of faith, He has an obligation...he is failing that obligation and as his parent/fellow believer, it is your job to help him find his way back.)

 

We have come full circle with our 'Xbox'...we had friends of our daughters come to spend the night and they brough Dance Central...we felt badly that due to my son's lack of self control, his sisters (who never had a problem with it) were being punished by having all their 'good' Wii games sold and we felt our son had 'learned' his lesson, even before pulling it out, I went to him and said, we are considering letting it back 'out' for the girls' sake, they knew we pulled it out of love for you and never complained...are you able to not let this become the thorn in your side that erupted in poor behavior (failure to do school work, able to lie about finishing school work, disrespect towards us parents etc.)..He was very polite and considerate...we have had it 'back' for about 4 weeks now, he ONLY plays it on weekends or on holidays, it's not become a beast...but we told him it's gone if it does. He respects that, he can look back and now see fellow friends who are still 'addicted' and feels sorry for them. He's keeping up his workouts, (works out 8 hours a week for a team sport) and his grades are great...

 

But, if we had just 'let' him do what he wanted....we would have been failing him.

There is a lot of truth here. Sometimes we do have to parent and be unpopular. I'm searching for the boundaries myself. I've had two friends with older teens go way farther than I have in restrictions. One had outright rebellion; the other did not. Go figure.

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Believe me, nothing makes music less cool than when your mother wants to sit down and discuss it!

 

BTW - this doesn't just apply to death metal. There is much to be worried about/offended by in just regular old pop music.

 

Very true! Nothing makes my kids stop insisting on something obnoxious faster than my husband announcing that he plans to read the lyrics aloud to the kids.

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I do want to chime in, although people said some great things.

 

1) The reason I do not agree with saying, "he could be on his own next year, stop enforcing your rules," is that, he is still under your care for a reason. The cortex of his brain will not be fully developed for years to come. That means, he still needs a moderate amount of guidance. I do understand that he needs to learn to make good choices on his own, but filling your head with carp is a really poor choice, and you are still responsible for his head. Would you let him smoke cigarettes because he is going to be 18 next year??? The music harms his mind like cigarettes would harm his lungs. Obviously I wouldn't fight over letting him listen to it outside the house, but even with headphones I wouldn't allow it in the house.

 

 

2) Your house, your rules. That is reality. A boss will not want him listening to that music while he should be working, so he should be getting trained for the real world, where obedience matters. Next year he may have dorm mates. Some of them may not want to even hear this through headphones and he needs to learn to respect his environment.

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He may not see your POV any time soon, but eventually, in a few years. By then, he will have moved out, work a job, possibly have a family.

I personally would not discipline an almost adult young man for his music taste. Yes, I would definitely discuss it, explain what I find objectionable, how the lyrics (which I did not look up) do not mesh with my family values - but I also know that listening to something with questionable lyrics in no way means that the young man is on the way to acting badly. I would really try to distinguish between the two things.

At this age, I personally would not resort to confiscating iPods etc. In one year, he will be on his own, making his own choices, listening to whatever he pleases. This is the time to prepare him for this independence. I would work to keep communication open, to enjoy this last year with my young adult. I would not choose to make this the battle that determines our relationship.

I might request that the music is only listened to on headphones and not played in the hearing of younger siblings who might be disturbed/confused by the lyrics.

:iagree:

 

The headphones are a good idea. And think of it as your child is now -- almost -- an adult and making decisions that may not be ideal, but is this a hill worth dying over?

 

It may be rebellion or just acting out or they actually do like the genre? Who knows. But do not allow this battle to have him close up and stop the relationship. :grouphug:

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I have the point of view of being "that" kid. They banned it and I snuck it, simple as that. Nothing ever changed while I was in the home and they were banning it. The more they banned it, the more I wanted it and the more creative ways I found to defy them and listen.

 

Having said that, I believe in the power of music; both good or bad and I believe that at this moment the biggest weapon you have is prayer. You CAN let him go because his Creator never will...in fact, maybe God can't do his work until you let go.....being pretty presumptuous here, please dont be offended. I don't want to sound unemphathetic.....oh my goodness, if this was my journey....couldnt even imagine....I just think that the battle in the physical at this point will blow up badly for you all.

 

I would also like to add that when I grew up some and became a momma I totally and completely figured it out and have since chosen to stay away from some of the very, very dark stuff that I loved. I was able to see that there was no good fruit of it and didn't want it influencing my life anymore.

 

I would also like to add that I am probably pretty lenient when it comes to music according to most standards.

 

I like this thread because my oldest is almost 13 and I feel like I need all the help I can get!!

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I do want to chime in, although people said some great things.

 

1) The reason I do not agree with saying, "he could be on his own next year, stop enforcing your rules," is that, he is still under your care for a reason. The cortex of his brain will not be fully developed for years to come. That means, he still needs a moderate amount of guidance. I do understand that he needs to learn to make good choices on his own, but filling your head with carp is a really poor choice, and you are still responsible for his head. Would you let him smoke cigarettes because he is going to be 18 next year??? The music harms his mind like cigarettes would harm his lungs. Obviously I wouldn't fight over letting him listen to it outside the house, but even with headphones I wouldn't allow it in the house.

 

 

.

 

Learning to make good choices includes passing through some bad ones. The cigarettes is a red herring. And, frankly, if a human wants to smoke, they will.

 

I agree that developmentally, they are not physiologically done growing. That doesn't change the fact that they need increasingly more space to make decisions - even and sometimes especially wrong ones.

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Learning to make good choices includes passing through some bad ones. The cigarettes is a red herring. And, frankly, if a human wants to smoke, they will.

 

I agree that developmentally, they are not physiologically done growing. That doesn't change the fact that they need increasingly more space to make decisions - even and sometimes especially wrong ones.

 

 

I really agree with you 99% of the time, but I really do believe that cigarettes and bad music, porn, etc, are the same thing as far as being unhealthy. But I am happy to disagree with someone I have come to respect over the years;). I had a good friend die of cigarettes, and one who has killed her soul with this music over the last 20 years who is now so unhealthy she cannot work, or think clearly. I do not see a difference.

 

I am perfectly well aware the boy will sneak the music, I just think that setting a good standard is a good example to him and his younger siblings. I wouldn't fight about it more than I had to, I would just say, not in the house, and what is sneaked, is sneaked, just like cigarettes would be too.

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I have spent a good deal of time today thinking about your situation! Here is what I think I would do if it was my child:

 

1. Buy Band T-Shirts, wear whenever his friends are around, or just for vaccuuming the house.

 

2. Buy CD and play the music whenever DS is home. Sing along to the lyrics (mangled when necessary).

 

3. Buy DS band posters for his room. Comment on how "cute" the lead singer is and how "adorable" the rest of the band is. How I love their "act" and isn't it interesting to note that this singer went to this college and that singer went to XXX (anything to make them more normal.)

 

4. Sit DS down and ask him to explain the lyrics to the songs so I can sing along even better.

 

5. Buy tickets to their next concert for me and DS and his friends so we can bond.

 

I am guessing someplace along the way the band/this music won't seem so cool anymore or I will start to understand my DS a little better!!

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2) Your house, your rules. That is reality. A boss will not want him listening to that music while he should be working, so he should be getting trained for the real world, where obedience matters. Next year he may have dorm mates. Some of them may not want to even hear this through headphones and he needs to learn to respect his environment.

 

This really depends on the job. In my industry, listening to music on headphones is quite common, and I've never heard of a manager asking what kind of music is being listened to. If deathmetal helps you write or code better, and your music is for your ears alone, who cares?

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He's nearly an adult. I wouldn't pay for it and it would stay on the iPod so sibs didn't have to listen and then I'd let it go. I was very " punk" in the early 80's. What you enjoy as a teen isn't forever. I have 2 "adult" children in my house. As long as they follow the house rules I don't interfere with their personal tastes. I don't appreciate my dad's input on my taste so I don't suppose they would appreciate mine.

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Euh... why do parents think they can determine which music you should listen?

My parents did that too when I was young and it drove me crazy.

They determined that I couldn't have dreadlocks, no piercings, no tattoos. It still drives me mad when I think about it.

I never would want to limit my children like that. They can have dreadlocks, piercings, tattoos as long as they are well informed and I know that they understand the risks and are old enough to make a decision like that. I will first talk about it, but I'm not planning to force them in being someone they're not.

The same with music, they can listen to whatever they want and feel like.

It's not because you're a christian, that you can force them to listen to music you approve.

This is exactly why I'm anti-religious instead of only being an atheist. Things like this go too far...

 

:rant:

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CollegeMan listens to Scandinavian Heavy Death Metal and some of it sounds to me like drinking songs of the Riders of Rohan ;) . When I fetch him from college (he does not drive yet - his choice) he plays some of the milder songs for me. Then I let him hear my ABBA :D . Then he decides to turn off all music and just talk to me :) for the rest of the drive home.

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I haven't read all the responses, but I do think it's important, as a parent and a Christian, to discuss and monitor what our kids are putting in their minds. Just like I wouldn't want my young son to sit and view p*rn all day, I don't want him to put garbage in his ears all day.

 

We had this issue with ds who is now 21. I finally told him that, yes, he could make his own choices--outside of our home. Anything he knew that we wouldn't appreciate had to be kept in his car or locker at work or somewhere else. And I stopped letting him take his younger brother (10) anywhere as I couldn't trust him not to have inappropriate music in his car.

 

It still bothers me that he listens to garbage, but it's his choice. (And he's moved out of the house.)

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He may not see your POV any time soon, but eventually, in a few years. By then, he will have moved out, work a job, possibly have a family.

I personally would not discipline an almost adult young man for his music taste. Yes, I would definitely discuss it, explain what I find objectionable, how the lyrics (which I did not look up) do not mesh with my family values - but I also know that listening to something with questionable lyrics in no way means that the young man is on the way to acting badly. I would really try to distinguish between the two things.

At this age, I personally would not resort to confiscating iPods etc. In one year, he will be on his own, making his own choices, listening to whatever he pleases. This is the time to prepare him for this independence. I would work to keep communication open, to enjoy this last year with my young adult. I would not choose to make this the battle that determines our relationship.

I might request that the music is only listened to on headphones and not played in the hearing of younger siblings who might be disturbed/confused by the lyrics.

 

Agreed!

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I really agree with you 99% of the time, but I really do believe that cigarettes and bad music, porn, etc, are the same thing as far as being unhealthy. But I am happy to disagree with someone I have come to respect over the years;). I had a good friend die of cigarettes, and one who has killed her soul with this music over the last 20 years who is now so unhealthy she cannot work, or think clearly. I do not see a difference.

 

I am perfectly well aware the boy will sneak the music, I just think that setting a good standard is a good example to him and his younger siblings. I wouldn't fight about it more than I had to, I would just say, not in the house, and what is sneaked, is sneaked, just like cigarettes would be too.

Cigarettes are a red herring, because they are illegal for him to buy at this age. (not sure if that's the red herring Joanne was referring to, but it's what jumped out at me) And yes, there is a big difference between porn and music.

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Euh... why do parents think they can determine which music you should listen?

My parents did that too when I was young and it drove me crazy.

They determined that I couldn't have dreadlocks, no piercings, no tattoos. It still drives me mad when I think about it.

I never would want to limit my children like that. They can have dreadlocks, piercings, tattoos as long as they are well informed and I know that they understand the risks and are old enough to make a decision like that. I will first talk about it, but I'm not planning to force them in being someone they're not.

The same with music, they can listen to whatever they want and feel like.

It's not because you're a christian, that you can force them to listen to music you approve.

This is exactly why I'm anti-religious instead of only being an atheist. Things like this go too far...

 

:rant:

 

Parents think they can determine what children should listen to, and what they should wear, and where they should go, and how they should learn, because we believe these matters are ours to oversee by God-given right. Not only do we have a right to speak into our children's lives, but we also have a command to raise them according to our faith. It's a huge responsibility. We will answer to God for how we raise our children, the sacred trust He's blessed us with. He didn't put any of us on the planet to go our own way and do what is right in our own eyes. The belief I just explained is the Christian perspective, the Jewish perspective, the Muslim perspective, and the perspective of many other religious groups who acknowledge a Deity in their lives. It is an ancient belief.

 

Two things God said: A father chastens (trains, teaches) a son whom he loves, and a child left to himself will bring his mother shame.

 

If we say, "Do what you like, son, hope it all goes well, it sure isn't my place to guard you from Satanic music, demonic videos, violence toward women in pornography, alcohol, or drugs. I was just here to give birth to you, man, you are your own person," we are proving, according to the God of the Bible, that we hate our children.

 

If we love them, we will teach, train, guard and guide them while they are under our care. That's the old system, and the nation was better off when more parents followed it. Ask any school teacher. Last I heard, most of them are bewailing the fact that parents no longer care and therefore the children can't learn at school.

 

The Christian perspective is ancient and established, yet relevant and current. Of course we abide by our Holy Scriptures. We're not going anywhere on that, because we believe that the kingdom of Christ (of which we are part) is forever.

 

Raising children according to the will of the God of the Bible isn't some new fad that will go away if the anti-religious atheists only do their part in consistently pointing out how ridiculous it is. A faith that has endured for thousands of years is a formidable thing and should be respected.

 

The modern secular system which brought music about mutilating prostitutes to our children (along with many other mysogynistic, child-hating, sloth-encouraging and mind-numbing forms of entertainment) has pretty well proven to be a failure for our society. Nobody has ever become a better neighbor, citizen, or friend by dwelling on that filth. Nobody has ever bettered himself by it, either. Some children go through phases of looking into those dark places and are lucky enough to go through those phases without setting up camp there forever, but it is only once they are out of those dark places that they begin to grow in positive ways.

Edited by Tibbie Dunbar
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There are age appropriate lines. The amount and type of guarding I do for my five year old is not the same as I do for my fifteen year old. My ten year old is having trouble understanding that there are some things allowed for the thirteen year old that are not allowed for her. As they get older, there are certain decisions that they should be able to start making. They will not always make the same choices that the parent would like. They will also have to be allowed to fall flat on their faces from time to time and learn to pick themselves up (with our encouragement). That is life. Keep them too insulated and then you are extending childhood, not giving them the skills they will need (this includes decision making skills), and it will create more resentment than necessary. Speaking from experience on this one.

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Parents think they can determine what children should listen to, and what they should wear, and where they should go, and how they should learn, because we believe these matters our ours to oversee by God-given right. Not only do we have a right to speak into our children's lives, but we also have a command to raise them according to our faith. It's a huge responsibility. We will answer to God for how we raise our children, the sacred trust He's blessed us with. He didn't put any of us on the planet to go our own way and do what is right in our own eyes. The belief I just explained is the Christian perspective, the Jewish perspective, the Muslim perspective, and the perspective of many other religious groups who acknowledge a Deity in their lives. It is an ancient belief.

 

Two things God said: A father chastens (trains, teaches) a son whom he loves, and a child left to himself will bring his mother shame.

 

If we say, "Do what you like, son, hope it all goes well, it sure isn't my place to guard you from Satanic music, demonic videos, violence toward women in pornography, alcohol, or drugs. I was just here to give birth to you, man, you are your own person," we are proving, according to the God of the Bible, that we hate our children.

 

If we love them, we will teach, train, guard and guide them while they are under our care. That's the old system, and the nation was better off when more parents followed it. Ask any school teacher. Last I heard, most of them are bewailing the fact that parents no longer care and therefore the children can't learn at school.

 

The Christian perspective is ancient and established, yet relevant and current. Of course we abide by our Holy Scriptures. We're not going anywhere on that, because we believe that the kingdom of Christ (of which we are part) is forever.

 

Raising children according to the will of the God of the Bible isn't some new fad that will go away if the anti-religious atheists only do their part in consistently pointing out how ridiculous it is. A faith that has endured for thousands of years is a formidable thing and should be respected.

 

The modern secular system which brought music about mutilating prostitutes to our children (along with many other mysogynistic, child-hating, sloth-encouraging and mind-numbing forms of entertainment) has pretty well proven to be a failure for our society. Nobody has ever become a better neighbor, citizen, or friend by dwelling on that filth. Nobody has ever bettered himself by it, either. Some children go through phases of looking into those dark places and are lucky enough to go through those phases without setting up camp there forever, but it is only once they are out of those dark places that they begin to grow in positive ways.

 

 

If my parents raised me like that, forcing me to become someone I'm not and keeping me away from things that are important for me, instead of a person of my own (not a copy of my parents), I would never speak to them again.

I thought my parents were bad... this is even worse.

 

I think I just became more anti-religious than 5 minutes ago, just by reading that.

If that is what "god" wants you to do when raising your children, that "god" needs a shot between his legs instead of being worshipped.

You don't create human beings with that, you create robots like there are 13 in a dozen.

 

Everyone his choice, I guess.

If it makes you happy, who am I to judge?

But I'm glad I don't live like that and that my kids can be free... ;)

 

(and don't worry, I won't start a religion-discussion... I was just shocked that it goes that far)

Edited by Tapasnaturalles
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If my parents raised me like that, forcing me to become someone I'm not and keeping me away from things that are important for me, as a person of my own (not a copy of my parents), I would never speak to them again.

I thought my parents were bad... this is even worse.

 

I think I just became more anti-religious than 5 minutes ago, just by reading that.

If that is what "god" wants you to do when raising your children, that "god" needs a shot between his legs instead of being worshipped.

You don't create human beings with that, you create robots like there are 13 in a dozen.

 

Everyone his choice, I guess.

If it makes you happy, who am I to judge?

But I'm glad I don't live like that and that my kids can be free... ;)

 

(and don't worry, I won't start a religion-discussion... I was just shocked that it goes that far)

 

.

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Parents think they can determine what children should listen to, and what they should wear, and where they should go, and how they should learn, because we believe these matters our ours to oversee by God-given right. Not only do we have a right to speak into our children's lives, but we also have a command to raise them according to our faith. It's a huge responsibility. We will answer to God for how we raise our children, the sacred trust He's blessed us with. He didn't put any of us on the planet to go our own way and do what is right in our own eyes. The belief I just explained is the Christian perspective, the Jewish perspective, the Muslim perspective, and the perspective of many other religious groups who acknowledge a Deity in their lives. It is an ancient belief.

 

Two things God said: A father chastens (trains, teaches) a son whom he loves, and a child left to himself will bring his mother shame.

 

If we say, "Do what you like, son, hope it all goes well, it sure isn't my place to guard you from Satanic music, demonic videos, violence toward women in pornography, alcohol, or drugs. I was just here to give birth to you, man, you are your own person," we are proving, according to the God of the Bible, that we hate our children.

 

If we love them, we will teach, train, guard and guide them while they are under our care. That's the old system, and the nation was better off when more parents followed it. Ask any school teacher. Last I heard, most of them are bewailing the fact that parents no longer care and therefore the children can't learn at school.

 

The Christian perspective is ancient and established, yet relevant and current. Of course we abide by our Holy Scriptures. We're not going anywhere on that, because we believe that the kingdom of Christ (of which we are part) is forever.

 

Raising children according to the will of the God of the Bible isn't some new fad that will go away if the anti-religious atheists only do their part in consistently pointing out how ridiculous it is. A faith that has endured for thousands of years is a formidable thing and should be respected.

 

The modern secular system which brought music about mutilating prostitutes to our children (along with many other mysogynistic, child-hating, sloth-encouraging and mind-numbing forms of entertainment) has pretty well proven to be a failure for our society. Nobody has ever become a better neighbor, citizen, or friend by dwelling on that filth. Nobody has ever bettered himself by it, either. Some children go through phases of looking into those dark places and are lucky enough to go through those phases without setting up camp there forever, but it is only once they are out of those dark places that they begin to grow in positive ways.

 

No one is *defending* the music. No one is saying it is edifying. Certainly no one is saying it aligns with Christian standards.

 

But the verses you base this on also say "when he is OLD he will not depart from it". This suggests to me that children's development of wisdom takes take. This family has laid a foundation of their faith, their views, their preferences throughout the life of this 17 year old, including their response to this music.

 

We may be responsible to God about how we *raise* our kids, but the outcome? That's on the "kids".

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I really agree with you 99% of the time, but I really do believe that cigarettes and bad music, porn, etc, are the same thing as far as being unhealthy. But I am happy to disagree with someone I have come to respect over the years;). I had a good friend die of cigarettes, and one who has killed her soul with this music over the last 20 years who is now so unhealthy she cannot work, or think clearly. I do not see a difference.

 

I am perfectly well aware the boy will sneak the music, I just think that setting a good standard is a good example to him and his younger siblings. I wouldn't fight about it more than I had to, I would just say, not in the house, and what is sneaked, is sneaked, just like cigarettes would be too.

 

My mom died of lung cancer. My DH's mom died of lung cancer. :grouphug:

 

Of course, I don't know the specifics of your friend. She sounds seriously mentally ill. So sad.

 

I should add that "no exposure to of music to younger siblings" would be on my list of boundaries.

 

:001_smile:

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No one is *defending* the music. No one is saying it is edifying. Certainly no one is saying it aligns with Christian standards.

 

But the verses you base this on also say "when he is OLD he will not depart from it". This suggests to me that children's development of wisdom takes take. This family has laid a foundation of their faith, their views, their preferences throughout the life of this 17 year old, including their response to this music.

 

We may be responsible to God about how we *raise* our kids, but the outcome? That's on the "kids".

 

Joanne, I didn't base anything on Proverbs 22:6. You are assuming that because I used the word "train," but I never quoted the verse, not even partially. I was thinking more of Deuteronomy 6, the book of Hebrews, and verses I did reference from Proverbs about a child left to himself bringing his mother shame.

 

I didn't quote, "Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it." That verse has been totally co-opted by religious-yet-godless child abusers, and I never use it for that reason. But I don't need it to make my point. The entire Bible is filled with the admonition to raise our children with God's values.

 

I never said there was one way to deal with this, either. Certainly Christians will approach the problem in different ways. (My own approach that I outlined upthread specifically did not include banning, confiscation, or a heavy hand.)

 

What I'm saying is that not caring is not an option for Christians. Although we may vary on exactly how we raise our children, we have an obligation to try to share our values with them instead of leaving them to themselves to fall into destruction.

Edited by Tibbie Dunbar
wrong verse.
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Joanne, I didn't base anything on Proverbs 22:7. You are assuming that because I used the word "train," but I never quoted the verse, not even partially. I was thinking more of Deuteronomy 6, the book of Hebrews, and verses I did reference from Proverbs about a child left to himself bringing his mother shame.

 

I didn't quote, "Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it." That verse has been totally co-opted by religious-yet-godless child abusers, and I never use it for that reason. But I don't need it to make my point. The entire Bible is filled with the admonition to raise our children with God's values.

 

I never said there was one way to deal with this, either. Certainly Christians will approach the problem in different ways. (My own approach that I outlined upthread specifically did not include banning, confiscation, or a heavy hand.)

 

What I'm saying is that not caring is not an option for Christians. Although we may vary on exactly how we raise our children, we have an obligation to try to share our values with them instead of leaving them to themselves to fall into destruction.

 

I like the Deuteronomy verses. I used Deut. 6 as an example of what I felt was the most important theme of the OT in a class last term. ;) My point wasn't to argue with you about verses, but that this family has already fulfilled the biblical command to talk with the child upon waking, walking, and bed about God. :001_smile:

 

I think more talking about the music, at this point for a child this age who is questioning the God thing as he's been taught, is counter productive.

 

I think it's easy and seductive to think that parenting is formulaic, and especially so when we are convinced we are right based on our understanding of biblical principles. My point in bringing up "when he is OLD" was because most people do come to some realizations as adults that their views as younger people were not wise.

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I like the Deuteronomy verses. I used Deut. 6 as an example of what I felt was the most important theme of the OT in a class last term. ;) My point wasn't to argue with you about verses, but that this family has already fulfilled the biblical command to talk with the child upon waking, walking, and bed about God. :001_smile:

 

I think more talking about the music, at this point for a child this age who is questioning the God thing as he's been taught, is counter productive.

 

I think it's easy and seductive to think that parenting is formulaic, and especially so when we are convinced we are right based on our understanding of biblical principles. My point in bringing up "when he is OLD" was because most people do come to some realizations as adults that their views as younger people were not wise.

 

Ack, you quoted me before I fixed the Proverbs reference. Ever since my Battle Royale with the Pearls I have never gotten it right (and if that episode didn't fix it in my head, nothing will). I always think it's verse 7, but it's 6.

 

I have no problem with Rita or how she is handling this. I haven't significantly disagreed with any Christian on this thread in how they would handle it. If you'll read my original post in this thread I told Rita that I'd force myself to never mention another word about the music, itself, again, but to try to reach the boy another way.

 

I've also never advocated for formulaic parenting on these boards. In fact, I've often said the opposite.

 

So I'm not sure at all why I'm batting down all these straw men you've set up, and I guess I'll stop doing that now.

 

I was not disagreeing with Christians. I was answering tapasnaturalles who made her position painfully clear.

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What I'm saying is that not caring is not an option for Christians. Although we may vary on exactly how we raise our children, we have an obligation to try to share our values with them instead of leaving them to themselves to fall into destruction.

 

But I care about my kids too.

And not raising them by christian's standards, doesn't mean that I would leave them to themselves to fall into destruction.

I will be there no matter what. But I find it very important that they search for themselves. I will not hold them back because I wouldn't do something myself.

The only limit for me is when it becomes dangerous. No drugs, no alcohol, no dangerous things just for kicks. The moment it threatens their lifes, it's a no go.

But I'm sure that if my kids want to listen to black metal (which is good music, by the way), I can talk to them about it and make them realize that they don't have to take the lyrics litteraly, that there is more behind a song than the exact words. I think it's more important to guide them through music like that, than to take it away from them.

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But I care about my kids too.

And not raising them by christian's standards, doesn't mean that I would leave them to themselves to fall into destruction.

I will be there no matter what. But I find it very important that they search for themselves. I will not hold them back because I wouldn't do something myself.

The only limit for me is when it becomes dangerous. No drugs, no alcohol, no dangerous things just for kicks. The moment it threatens their lifes, it's a no go.

But I'm sure that if my kids want to listen to black metal (which is good music, by the way), I can talk to them about it and make them realize that they don't have to take the lyrics litteraly, that there is more behind a song than the exact words. I think it's more important to guide them through music like that, than to take it away from them.

:iagree:

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If my parents raised me like that, forcing me to become someone I'm not and keeping me away from things that are important for me, instead of a person of my own (not a copy of my parents), I would never speak to them again.

I thought my parents were bad... this is even worse.

 

I think I just became more anti-religious than 5 minutes ago, just by reading that.

If that is what "god" wants you to do when raising your children, that "god" needs a shot between his legs instead of being worshipped.

You don't create human beings with that, you create robots like there are 13 in a dozen.

 

Everyone his choice, I guess.

If it makes you happy, who am I to judge?

But I'm glad I don't live like that and that my kids can be free... ;)

 

(and don't worry, I won't start a religion-discussion... I was just shocked that it goes that far)

 

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time hearing anything else you've said after this.

 

I want to say something about understanding that irreligious people can and do have value systems of their own that they live by, but I don't know how to just go on speaking normally as if we're on equal ground sharing ideas reasonably when you said, If that is what "god" wants you to do when raising your children, that "god" needs a shot between his legs instead of being worshipped.

 

That's ringing in my ears. Conversation over, I'm afraid.

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Wanted to add - when my DS started listening to music I didn't like, an adult we know well heard it. He has no kids. He couldn't understand why in the world a parent would let a kid listen to that! We were the parents! Etc. Parents with younger children (say - younger than 12) were also "shocked".

 

Well - DS was getting straight A's with no need of me to remind him of anything, was the Senior Patrol Leader of his Boy Scout Troop, got himself up and ready in the morning with no help, was (is) respectful to all the adults in our lives, and was looked upon by everyone we know as a teen on the right path.

 

I had told DS that, while I didn't like the music, as long as he stayed "on the right path" I respected his decision to chose what music he would listen to (although I didn't want rap around.... thankfully he hates rap :) ). I discussed the lyrics, asked him what he liked about it, etc. Within about 6 months, the music I REALLY didn't like had sort of faded away, and he had found music that sounded similar, but didn't have lyrics that were degrading of women or downright nasty.

 

Anyway - if we trust our kids, and give them the tools they need, and some guidance, I do think they can figure it out for themselves.

 

ETA - I also think it is beyond ridiculous to compare music to internet (or any other )porn, smoking, and drinking.

Edited by SailorMom
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I'm seeing two sides to this discussion. Just my unscientific opinion.

 

One side believes in the power of words and music to affect. So, to them, this is an issue that ranks up there with drugs and alcohol. To them, this is pollution of the spirit and mind.

 

I do think we'd all like to not see our kids get involved with drugs or alcohol. I would imagine many of have seen the power of that to ruin/change lives.

 

The other side sees it as music, a spirit of choice and self. Dictating musical choice seems odd, because after all, it's just music. Many of us made it through the 70s and 80s when every song seemed to be about sex or drugs and we're okay. Having death metal on an Ipod doesn't mean they are/or will embrace the lifestyle.

 

Different sides see it differently, that's all.

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IMy point wasn't to argue with you about verses, but that this family has already fulfilled the biblical command to talk with the child upon waking, walking, and bed about God. :001_smile:

 

I think more talking about the music, at this point for a child this age who is questioning the God thing as he's been taught, is counter productive.

 

I think it's easy and seductive to think that parenting is formulaic, and especially so when we are convinced we are right based on our understanding of biblical principles. My point in bringing up "when he is OLD" was because most people do come to some realizations as adults that their views as younger people were not wise.

 

No, the family has not fulfilled the biblical command, none of us really can...it doesn't say try it for awhile and let them decide...it is our responsibility especially when they are under our care to continually discipline our children..not always with punishment but showing them how to be disciplined....parenting is not formulaic but it definitely is a responsibility....the OP specifically said she has tried to lay off the God discussions...I'm not saying engage in theological debate but as Christians all of our actions should be honoring God, it may not be 'discussing' God but just by showing our actions we are sharing God....that is key in all things.

 

Proverbs 29:15 The rod of correction imparts wisdom, but a child left to himself disgraces his mother.

 

27 She watches over the ways of her household,

And does not eat the bread of idleness.

 

These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates. Deuteronomy 6:6-9

 

Proverbs 19:18 Discipline your son, for in that there is hope; do not be a willing party to his death.

 

Proverbs 22:15 Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him.

 

Through wisdom a house is built, and by understanding it is established; by knowledge the rooms are filled with all precious and pleasant riches. Proverbs 24:3-4

 

Proverbs 29:17 Discipline your son, and he will give you peace; he will bring delight to your soul.

 

Ephesians 6:4 Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.

 

1 Corinthians15:33 Do not be misled: Ă¢â‚¬Å“Bad company corrupts good character.Ă¢â‚¬

 

Proverbs 1:8-9 Listen, my son, to your fatherĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s instruction and do not forsake your mother's teaching. They will be a garland to grace your head and a chain to adorn your neck.

 

 

Proverbs 23:24-25 The father of a righteous man has great joy; he who has a wise son delights in him. May your father and mother be glad; may she who gave you birth rejoice!

 

Simple reminders that we are commanded to parent and blessings will come...I always tell my son, it's not my rules, but God's rules...now with a son who has not professed a confession of faith...I would pray diligently for him and advise him that as Christians we must raise him this way...no obligation other than he's our son....that would be tougher.

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The other side sees it as music, a spirit of choice and self. Dictating musical choice seems odd, because after all, it's just music. Many of us made it through the 70s and 80s when every song seemed to be about sex or drugs and we're okay. Having death metal on an Ipod doesn't mean they are/or will embrace the lifestyle.

 

Different sides see it differently, that's all.

 

It comes down to Philippians 4:8

 

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.

 

Heavy metal goes against many of the phrases above, it's not just about personal preference and what one sees is true/noble/right//it's what God sees as true, noble, right etc.

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ETA - I also think it is beyond ridiculous to compare music to internet (or any other )porn, smoking, and drinking.

 

In addition, other research has found that after exposure to violent lyrics,

participants were more likely to accept antisocial behavior and engage in similar behavior

(Gatto, Jackson & Johnson, 1995). In this particular study, participants were less likely to be accepting of antisocial or aggressive behavior if they had not been exposed to music with violent lyrics. The results of these particular studies uphold the idea that destructive themes in rock music have a dulling effect on the viewers.

Research measuring physiological responses to musical stimuli has upheld this idea that music may affect an adolescent's health. A study conducted on chronically depressed female adolescents tested right frontal EEG activation and cortisol levels before, during, and after exposing the participants to "uplifting" or "happy" songs.

The results of the study concluded that "...music had positive effects on the physiological and biochemical measures even though observed and self-reported mood did not change"

(Field et al, 1998).

Specifically, research has been focused on heavy metal and rap music with increasingly explicit lyrics depicting irresponsible sexuality and antisocial themes and the effect that those types of lyrics may have on an individual's mood and health. Research in the early 1990s compared adolescents that favored heavy metal and rap music to adolescents that preferred different types of music. According to the article, "Results

indicated that adolescents who preferred heavy metal and rap had a higher incidence of below-average school grades, school behavior problems, sexual activity, drug and alcohol use and arrests" (Took & Weiss, 1994).

Furthermore, another study with findings consistent with the previous study found that 59.1% of chemically dependent patients

admitted at Charter Lakeside Hospital in Memphis, Tennessee had a preference for heavy metal rock music. "In addition 74.4% were involved in violence, 49.8% in stealing, and 71.9% in sexual activity" (King, 1988).

Just saying, there is enough evidence to support that the music you listen to can alter the chemicals/hormones and there are correlations not to be ignored.

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It comes down to Philippians 4:8

 

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.

 

Heavy metal goes against many of the phrases above, it's not just about personal preference and what one sees is true/noble/right//it's what God sees as true, noble, right etc.

 

 

:iagree:

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No, the family has not fulfilled the biblical command, none of us really can...it doesn't say try it for awhile and let them decide...it is our responsibility especially when they are under our care to continually discipline our children..not always with punishment but showing them how to be disciplined....parenting is not formulaic but it definitely is a responsibility....the OP specifically said she has tried to lay off the God discussions...I'm not saying engage in theological debate but as Christians all of our actions should be honoring God, it may not be 'discussing' God but just by showing our actions we are sharing God....that is key in all things.

 

Proverbs 29:15 The rod of correction imparts wisdom, but a child left to himself disgraces his mother.

 

27 She watches over the ways of her household,

And does not eat the bread of idleness.

 

These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates. Deuteronomy 6:6-9

 

Proverbs 19:18 Discipline your son, for in that there is hope; do not be a willing party to his death.

 

Proverbs 22:15 Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him.

 

Through wisdom a house is built, and by understanding it is established; by knowledge the rooms are filled with all precious and pleasant riches. Proverbs 24:3-4

 

Proverbs 29:17 Discipline your son, and he will give you peace; he will bring delight to your soul.

 

Ephesians 6:4 Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.

 

1 Corinthians15:33 Do not be misled: Ă¢â‚¬Å“Bad company corrupts good character.Ă¢â‚¬

 

Proverbs 1:8-9 Listen, my son, to your fatherĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s instruction and do not forsake your mother's teaching. They will be a garland to grace your head and a chain to adorn your neck.

 

 

Proverbs 23:24-25 The father of a righteous man has great joy; he who has a wise son delights in him. May your father and mother be glad; may she who gave you birth rejoice!

 

Simple reminders that we are commanded to parent and blessings will come...I always tell my son, it's not my rules, but God's rules...now with a son who has not professed a confession of faith...I would pray diligently for him and advise him that as Christians we must raise him this way...no obligation other than he's our son....that would be tougher.

When do you start treating your child as an actual adult or separate entity from yourself?

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How about a compromise. Acknowledge that at his age his music taste is his own. That you are disappointed that he would listen/buy this, and support it with his money, but that it is his choice. However, you own the home and it is your right to say you do not want this in your home. What he listens to outside the home is his business, but he cannot have that music in your home.

 

I haven't read all of the respones, but I agree with this. Our home, our rules and they would not be compromised for this type of music even if it is "just music" to others. We fully realize that our children will at some point make their own decisions about these sorts of things, but that doesn't mean that we have to allow things that we morally disagree with into our homes.

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Specifically, research has been focused on heavy metal and rap music with increasingly explicit lyrics depicting irresponsible sexuality and antisocial themes and the [/font][/font]effect that those types of lyrics may have on an individual's mood and health. Research in the early 1990s compared adolescents that favored heavy metal and rap music to adolescents that preferred different types of music. According to the article, "Results[/left]

indicated that adolescents who preferred heavy metal and rap had a higher incidence of below-average school grades, school behavior problems, sexual activity, drug and alcohol use and arrests" (Took & Weiss, 1994).

Furthermore, another study with findings consistent with the previous study found that 59.1% of chemically dependent patients

 

 

admitted at Charter Lakeside Hospital in Memphis, Tennessee had a preference for heavy metal rock music. "In addition 74.4% were involved in violence, 49.8% in stealing, and 71.9% in sexual activity" (King, 1988).

 

Just saying, there is enough evidence to support that the music you listen to can alter the chemicals/hormones and there are correlations not to be ignored.

 

 

[/font][/font]

 

I understand that music is mood altering, etc. However, I think it would be best to keep in mind that the majority of those participants - the ones who had anti-social behavior, who were violent, did drugs, etc., probably had been brought up in a very bad environment to begin with. The flawed conclusion in that part of the study is that the music caused these issues - whereas no actual proof of causation can be shown. It's a chicken and egg thing.

 

If they had pooled a bunch of honors kids who go to church on Sunday, they still would have found some who listened to that kind of music. They use the term "higher incidence" - that could mean 51%. And only 59% of the drug users.... Yes - that's more than half - but still. That means 41% of drug users did not listen to that music.

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I have not read all of the previous posts, but I wanted to address your son's questioning God's existence.

 

I have always told my children that their personal relationship with God is PERSONAL. I also remind them not to be afraid if they have doubts. They have to examine their faith to truly own it.

 

I recently had a long conversation with my son, where he said he is uncomfortable in situations where everyone just assumes he is a Christian. He isn't sure what he believes. I assured him that his feelings are 100% appropriate for his age.

 

I told him that while we want him to continue going to church with us because it sets a good example for his little sisters, but we do not want him to feel pressured to take communion or make any professions that he is not in agreement with.

 

It was interesting, because he immediately relaxed and said, "I'm not saying I WON'T want to get confirmed or take communion in the future."

 

A few days later, he confided that his best friend has always been very resentful of his parents church involvement, and very critical of Christians, but had recently been saved and turned his entire life around.

 

My son said that he finds it all very interesting, and they have been talking about it a lot.

 

I'm glad I was not disapproving of my son's doubts. If I had been, he would not have had the freedom to share more with me later.

 

Parenting teenagers is hard, isn't it?

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I understand that music is mood altering, etc. However, I think it would be best to keep in mind that the majority of those participants - the ones who had anti-social behavior, who were violent, did drugs, etc., probably had been brought up in a very bad environment to begin with. The flawed conclusion in that part of the study is that the music caused these issues - whereas no actual proof of causation can be shown. It's a chicken and egg thing.

 

If they had pooled a bunch of honors kids who go to church on Sunday, they still would have found some who listened to that kind of music. They use the term "higher incidence" - that could mean 51%. And only 59% of the drug users.... Yes - that's more than half - but still. That means 41% of drug users did not listen to that music.

I've know drug users that listen to country music...therefore, country music causes people to use drugs :tongue_smilie:

My husband was a metalhead at one time. Never used drugs, read his Bible daily, spent time in prayer, went to church, never got into trouble.

His brother listened to country music, robbed video stores, played hooky from school to smoke cigs, got drunk regularly, played chicken with trains, etc.

One girl I knew listened almost exclusively to Christian music...she was and is a sex addict.

Not buying the music = behaviour theory. In fact, I believe that there have been studies that state that those that have listened to more "violent" music have been noted to actually have calmer personalities and be calmer (will have to find this study). I think there was also a similar study done on video games. It shows one of two things...either the studies are true or the studies can be warped to show whatever you want, including trying to prove the such makes a person violent, etc.

Edited by mommaduck
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