Is this really how high school english is taught?

[SJ.]

There is a fitness instructor at the gym I attend who is a high school english teacher. A week ago I asked him if any of his classes were reading a novel. I was taken aback when he told me that they don't really read novels anymore in high school english. He said it was mostly nonfiction excerpts as well as excerpts from plays (Romeo & Juliet). He said this was Colorado policy and that he believed it was nationwide - that policymakers said this prepares the students for college and the real world.

 

This past week I have been thinking about our conversation. When I was in high school (94-98) we read novels & plays, discussed them, wrote essays, and took tests. Most of the reading was assigned for outside of class with class time used for class discussions.

 

Last night I was able to discuss this topic again with him (the hs teacher/fitness instructor). I knew he taught in an underprivileged area so I wanted to clarify if this was just a policy in his district - nope, statewide. I then asked if he taught remedial english - nope, regular and advanced. To be more specific he explained that the class will discuss a literary topic/method and then read either a paragraph or a chapter that illustrates the topic. He said there are some books he really enjoys/feels are important that they may use more than once in hopes to spark an interest. He was doubtful that it would result in students reading more outside of class, remarking that expanded reading was assigned as homework in the past (now is not) but never completed. He did seem happy that the students have read from about 50 different texts this year.

 

Is this the way high school english is taught now in public school? Was my experience an anomaly? What do you think of this approach to teaching?

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

My best friend teaches high school drama and English to the "lower" track kids. If she wants them to discuss a novel, she has to read it aloud to them in class. Many of them have LDs, but she is also not allowed to require them to read a whole book outside of class.

 

ETA: I don't think this is at all how the "higher" level English classes are taught. I know that certain school around here have required reading lists, but I don't know any more than that about what they do once the kids have read the books.

Edited November 30, 2011 by thescrappyhomeschooler

[Desert Rat]

I don't think this is the norm. My ds8's soccer coach is a junior in high school. He just finished The Crucible. And I know he's reading the entire play, Julius Caesar. He's a smart kid, but I offered to help if he needed it. That's my area of expertise. I live in Las Vegas. Our state was recently ranked 50 out of 50 for schools. Just to say that we are the lower end of education and our students are still reading entire novels.

[Jenny in Atl]

Not in my daughter's public high school school. They read a number of novels each semester, as well as plays and short stories.

[SJ.]

My best friend teaches high school drama and English to the "lower" track kids. If she wants them to discuss a novel, she has to read it aloud to them in class. Many of them have LDs, but she is also not allowed to require them to read a whole book outside of class.

 

Are these students who truly are incapable of reading an entire book?

 

I went to public school in a teeny, tiny town and we were required to read three books each summer prior to the start of school. We also read and discussed books in middle school. I truly believe this type of teaching really helped inspire a love of reading in me.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Kids in our high schools read novels, usually *in* class. Half the time, several kids are playing video games on their school-given laptops also (honestly, I have NEVER seen *one* positive to the students being given laptops...I'm sure there *could* be; but there doesn't appear to be any here).

 

BTW, it is fairly painful to listen to average students read. They did surprise me on a few references they caught. But mostly, how they do things at the high school level in a GOOD school district is most certainly enabling mediocrity (at best), not helping them. There are higher expectations on 3rd and 4th graders than high schoolers.

[Ohdanigirl]

I don't think it is nation wide. My niece is in the 10 grade and was given a summer reading list for English, AP Hist and AP Spanish Lit. In fact, we didn't see her all summer at any of our family functions.

 

This has been a common thing for many of the teens I know, and even when I was in school (93-97). Excerpts are used as well.

 

HTH

 

Danielle

[Rhonda in TX]

It's definitely not nation wide. The high schools around here read novels. My sister teaches hs English, as does a friend. We've talked about what books they read for class. They have a literature textbook with excerpts, but they do read full books as well.

[Joyofsixreboot]

Our high school does have students read novels, plays, etc. Well, they are assigned. My kids tell me very few actually read them :glare:

[Caroline]

It is not the policy here. My son reads several novels each year for English class. Reading is done outside of class, and discussion is done in class. Most writing is done outside of class, but they do have some timed writes in class.

[Aubrey]

Not when I was teaching in Tx.

[DawnM]

I taught English for years in the inner city and read at least one novel per semester. Now, I usually had to read WITH them as they just didn't get it if they had to read it on their own (never mind that 80% of them refused to ever do homework anyway.)

 

I don't know what they do here as I am not involved in the PS system.

[mom2scouts]

No, that's not how it's done nationwide. I have a son who's a senior at the local public high school. He has read many novels and written reports on them. Right now they are reading Beowulf. Our schools also require all students in advanced classes to read certain novels over the summer and write a paper about it during the first month of school.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Are these students who truly are incapable of reading an entire book?

 

I went to public school in a teeny, tiny town and we were required to read three books each summer prior to the start of school. We also read and discussed books in middle school. I truly believe this type of teaching really helped inspire a love of reading in me.

 

Some of them are truly incapable of reading an entire book. She also has many kids of itinerant farmers who speak absolutely no English at all. That is another story all together.

 

I asked my sister who taught HS French in Louisiana if she knew anything about how English was taught. She said the kids were required to read novels, but their grammar and writing skills were horrible, and they were not given any idea on how to go about analyzing the novels they did read.

[Renee in NC]

My ds read several novels in his high school English classes - it's literature for goodness sakes!

[Ailaena]

I don't know whether or not that is official policy at the schools I know, but the 9/10 reg/adv English classes definitely read books in addition to the big compilation book (there is a word there that is eluding me...:glare:), and the 11/12 AP classes read actual books, as well.

 

The one near our house reads 2-3 books per semester, the other schools in other districts read about the same amount each semester, all have a summer reading list (from which to choose one book, but still).

 

I live in Colorado, and these are "regular" schools, not charter or magnet.

[LittleIzumi]

I read novels (chose from a list of approved options), plus required novels and plays with related work assigned when I was in English in high school (regular and advanced tracks). I'm in my 20s so I hope that's still relevant. :lol:

[dirty ethel rackham]

I can't speak to whether or not this is normal. I do know that upper level English classes in our local district to read whole books as well as excerpts.

 

To be more specific he explained that the class will discuss a literary topic/method and then read either a paragraph or a chapter that illustrates the topic.

 

So, do they not teach plot, climax, theme, foreshadowing? How can you effectively teach them if you do not read the entire book? :001_huh:

[ondreeuh]

Not nationwide. At my dd's school in Oregon, they read several novels, plays, epics, and works of poetry in 9th grade.

 

We have since moved, and the students in this school have not had to do much reading (and it shows in the high schoolers - lots of reluctance). My husband teaches LA to the middle schoolers, and he shelved the books that you are describing (excerpts of a few paragraphs to teach a concept). Instead he uses real books and literature guides to teach story elements, and he has the kids keep a list of words they need to look up. Already this year they have read & analyzed six novels in addition to their free reading. And these are kids whose families typically don't own books. We believe this is what it takes to get them to see themselves as readers.

 

I love this. My son who was until very recently a struggling reader, now says "Oh, that book is short; it's only 200 pages."

[ereks mom]

Not in my daughter's public high school school. They read a number of novels each semester, as well as plays and short stories.

 

It's the same in the PS around here. They read novels & write papers.

[LizzyBee]

My older kids go to a public, college prep charter school in NC. They read, analyze, and discuss whole books and plays. I think reading some excerpts is fine, since there just isn't time to read all the good/great books during high school. But I am appalled by the idea of not reading any full-length works.

[milovany]

I transcribe high school classes for a living, and the English class I had this quarter -- on Long Island in New York -- read two classic novels the way you're remembering (chapter by chapter, with discussion about content, meaning, symbolism, themes, etc).

[CherylG]

My two youngest entered public high school for the first time this year. I asked for the same teacher for both of them. He is know to be thorough and teaches the dual-enrollment and honors English classes at the high school and the local city college.

 

The 9th grader has read, Twelfth Night in class and at home. She had to rewrite 5 scenes as a group project and then perform it with that same group of kids; they could pick their scenes and their parts. She has also read Of Mice and Men and To Kill a Mocking Bird at home (and aloud) in class and has had a Literature quiz on multiple chapters. The quizzes consist of a verse or paragraph from the book and she needed to say who said it and the significance of the passage. She also has a 10 word vocabulary list to learn each week. Very challenging for her, but she is doing fine and he doesn't curve. They also write for 15 minutes a day.

 

I picked the same teacher for my 11th grader for the college English class that he tested into. All that my son has read are articles written by journalists and has had to write numerous critiques, synthesis papers, and analytical essays. The attention to detail that he has had to survive in this class is wonderful. He got 2 points off for not indenting the second line of his Works Cited page. I say we need more teachers like this. :001_smile:

At the back to school night though for the 9th graders he did mention that this was the last year that he was going to be using literature in his classroom. That might be the nationwide thing that was mentioned earlier. :confused:

[imagine.more]

At our school only the advanced classes read novels. The college prep kids read excerpts of books contained in literature textbooks, read poems, and do 1-2 plays a year. I was put in college prep english for one semester before I was begging to be let out, I was bored to tears. But in honors/AP they read novels, like a pp said many of the kids don't actually read them, but they are assigned and studied.

[chepyl]

Both districts near us read at least 4 novels a year, at least in the honors and AP classes. Most of my theatre students had read Jane Eyre before we did the musical last year. They had great understanding of the themes and symbolism.

[TXMary2]

I have a friend that teaches High School English at our local high school. They read one novel per semester. They take 8 weeks to read it because the students aren't allowed to take books home. They read together, aloud, during class. They do writing, but my friend says with the exception of one or two students in each of her classes, the writing is horrendous.

[redsquirrel]

I know in my district the students are reading and discussing novels in middle school and high school. They read several Shakespeare plays in high school as well.

[NicAnn]

When I left high school in 2004/05, we never read full novels. Most were excerpts. We had a recommended reading list, but it was not enforced in any way. My brother attends that school now and there is very little reading, aside from the excerpts in his text book. I don't know if it's the school or policy but reading doesn't happen.

[LostSurprise]

There's quite a difference between districts/teachers/states.

 

When I taught in the late '90s, novels were still common in most grades. Some grades were used for more writing practice then reading.

 

Teens I know in WI still read novels.

 

So, do they not teach plot, climax, theme, foreshadowing? How can you effectively teach them if you do not read the entire book?

 

There are many short stories that teach these concepts effectively. You can read the story aloud and then have an immediate discussion. More opportunities for students to 'click' with the material and less to be bored.

[Laura Corin]

...has a very small number of pieces of literature from age 16-18, but they are whole texts, currently The Tempest, Lord of the Flies, To Kill a Mockingbird and An Inspector Calls.

 

The curriculum specialises early. Those who continue with English literature from age 16 to 17 would read something like two novels, plus some number of plays (including Shakespeare) and a selection of poetry. From age 17-18 they would read at least four texts, including prose, poetry collections and drama.

 

The texts that they do study they know inside out, as the same texts are used to study characterisation, structure, use of language....

 

Laura

[Splinter]

That's nothing like high school English is taught here. My nephew is in 10th grade and according to him, they're reading four novels and two plays, along with short stories and poetry. The reading is done outside of class time. The teacher lectures like a university professor and they write in-class essays, take-home essays and research papers.

[FaithManor]

I don't think this is the norm for AP classes. It is the norm here for all non college prep English classes.

 

For that matter, college prep but not AP often use a textbook that is nothing but short excerpts of works. I know an English teacher from our local high school and since she does not have the AP kids, she is not allowed to teach more than one whole Shakespeare play, a few poems, and no novels. She has to focus on the editorial skills that are prevalent on the MEAPS and ACT's. So, they spend a lot of time on English test prep. But, she said the AP kids do a lot more because in order to be an AP designated class, the content is controlled through the college board...approved text, approved content, approved sequence.

 

Faith

[Soror]

Dh's aunt is a High School English teacher and I talked to her about that this summer. I think she said they read 1 play a year and maybe 1 or 2 books. They don't go over diagramming and such, she doesn't feel it is necessary to talk about such things. This is a regular high school, she teaches all levels of kids.

[MIch elle]

They DO read whole books! That teacher needs to get a clue as to what is happening outside his/her state.

[Puma Mom]

A high school friend was in honors English in her NJ high school. She read 6-10 works per school year. Some of them were plays, so shorter, and there may have been some where they were only assigned excerpts. Her 10th grade teacher was quite proud of the fact that they read 10 works per year, so that must be higher than normal. She did say that they would have reading assigned every night but only 3-4 pages.

[Lovin Learnin]

Not in my daughter's public high school school. They read a number of novels each semester, as well as plays and short stories.

 

Ditto for my boys who both graduated in recent years from a public hs.

[Stages]

I graduated in 2004, taking AP English. My senior year we read at least 4 novels (The Sun Also Rises, The Invisible Man, Heart of Darkness, Things Fall Apart, and probably a few that I don't remember off the top of my head) as well as at least two or three plays.

 

My husband graduated in 2002 from "regular" English. He read several novels in his classes.

 

My sister in law is in 9th grade in the same district, and she has read at least two novels so far.

[Hoggirl]

They read eight novels independently each year. One semester of English is devoted primarily to composition. During that semester they read four novels independently, but do some reading of plays, short stories, etc. in class. The other semester is devoted primarily to literature. During that semester they read four novels independently as well as four additional novels and/or full plays together. They tend to read in class only the plays with students taking/reading different parts. The novels are generally not read during class time.

 

So, in total ds reads 12 novels/plays per year.

 

ETA: They also read some nonfiction in class. Mostly as test preparation. They recently did an in-class study of how to read legal documents.

 

2nd ETA: Forgot - two novels over the summer as well.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Hoggirl

[kathymuggle]

My son is in Academic Grade 10 English. In one semester (2 semester system) he is reading (full texts):

 

Animal Farm

To Kill a Mockingbird

Romeo and Juliet

4 books of his choice.

 

He has also done units on short stories, poetry and print media.

 

The applied class (which is not as hard as the Academic) is doing 2 novels, and only has to read one book of their choosing. No Shakespeare.

 

I have been mostly pleased with his class. We are in Ontario, Canada.

Edited November 30, 2011 by kathymuggle

[bettyandbob]

My ds has taken the highest level of English offered. Here are a few of the books/plays he has read

 

Oliver Twist

The Little Prince

Romeo and Juliet

Hamlet

Macbeth

A Separate Peace

Angela's Ashes

Great Expectations

The Handmade's Tale

A Tale of Two Cities

 

These are just the ones I see on a nearby bookshelf. I always purchase copies of literature for my son so he can annotate them as he studies. I believe he has averaged 7 or 8 books a year. There is no reading aloud of novels in class. The booklists are posted for the next year are posted in June.

[myfunnybunch]

This past week I have been thinking about our conversation. When I was in high school (94-98) we read novels & plays, discussed them, wrote essays, and took tests. Most of the reading was assigned for outside of class with class time used for class discussions.

 

This is how my dd's English teacher teaches. They did read several essays and speeches this year in junior English. Benjamin Franklin, Patrick Henry, Thoreau and Emerson are the ones that stick in my memory, but the class has moved on and is focusing on short stories right now.

 

As freshmen, my dd read Romeo and Juliet and...A Midsummer Night's Dream?, I think, in addition to several novels.

 

They are expected to do the reading and some other work outside of class; the class schedule shows most of the class time devoted to discussion of the readings, literary terms, general vocabulary and all of the other things I'd expect to find in an English class.

 

Cat

[Stacy in NJ]

My DS is in the 9th grade English honors class and has/will read:

 

Mythology - Edith Hamilton

The Odyssey

Great Expectations

Sophocles - (Antigone, Oedipus the King, Oedipus at Colonus)

Hamlet

 

In addition they use Norton's Anthology for units on Poety.

 

The non-honors course use real books as well, just at a less rigorous level.

[momsquared]

Some of them are truly incapable of reading an entire book. She also has many kids of itinerant farmers who speak absolutely no English at all. That is another story all together.

 

I asked my sister who taught HS French in Louisiana if she knew anything about how English was taught. She said the kids were required to read novels, but their grammar and writing skills were horrible, and they were not given any idea on how to go about analyzing the novels they did read.

 

I believe the argument is that too many English teachers were teaching the novel versus teaching the skills needed to truly analyze the novel. They were giving all these content driven tests with recall questions seeing if kids had read the material. However, there were no skills being addressed to transfer to other reading selections.

 

Although novels are read at the school I teach, I know there are schools in Illinois that do not teach entire novels, but excerpts that exemplify a particular structure or mechanic they are studying. It requires the teacher to pull away for being content driven and pushes them towards being more skill driven.

 

I get the idea, but I am concerned at how few students have the stamina to really read a large amount. I see it on testing days when they have a lot of reading and they cannot keep up or tackle all of it because they are not used to reading in that quantity at one sitting.

 

It's a conundrum for sure.

[unsinkable]

So, how's the guy as a fitness instructor? :lol:

[bettyandbob]

I believe the argument is that too many English teachers were teaching the novel versus teaching the skills needed to truly analyze the novel. They were giving all these content driven tests with recall questions seeing if kids had read the material. However, there were no skills being addressed to transfer to other reading selections.

 

 

My son is expected to know and analyze whole books. His English classes have been intense in expectations, as have all his classes. He's in a public school IB program. I believe my son definitely has the skills needed for college level work. The regular classes at his school also have student read whole novels. They do not read as many as ds's classes.

 

If educators don't have the expectation that content and analysis can be taught at the same time then it won't happen.

[KidsHappen]

Um, no. My 9th grader has read To Kill a Mockingbird and Of Mice and Men so far this year and they are now on The Odyssey. Romeo & Juliet in the spring. I am happy with the selections so far.

Edited December 2, 2011 by KidsHappen