Can we talk about a subject that ONLY pertains to baby boys?

[Karen sn]

Our son is circ'd.

 

My husband and I were really torn about this issue but during the week before he was born, my friend who was in medical school at the time was telling me about this guy he just treated in a nursing home who had a raging, swollen infection from my being properly cleaned at the home.

 

That same week, my husband (worked for 911 at the time) took a call about 6am. The father said, I need an ambulance, my son is severely bleeding and in a lot of pain. My husband asked what was wrong and he said he was bleeding from his circ site. DH was shocked when he asked the age and the caller said his son was 14!

 

One other story that happened close to the week I was due was that one our friends admitted that he was circ'd as an adult and really, the sexual pleasure between being circ'd and not was negligible to him. He said he assumed before the surgery that he was trying to deal with the fact that he would be less sensitive but he said in reality, sex is very similar feeling to him as when he was intact.

 

Honestly, if I ever have another son, I will not get him circ'd. My husband and I both wished we left him but I'm not willing to look at those anti circ sites and buy the fact that he will not have a "full" life because of this. I understand they are trying to educate people but come on! My husband and I are perfectly <ahem> ummm, happy with the way he is (circ'd) and he probably would never have thought about the state of his penis and what he could be missing if it wasn't for the fact that we were researching. Yes, I bet there are circ'd guys who are unhappy but lets face it: most circ'd men will never give it another thought.

 

FWIW, my husband was in the room with my son when he was circ'd and he did cry but not nearly as much and as hard as other times, like when he was hungry or just cranky! That's just our experience though. My DS was brought right back in to me and when he was in the room, he wasn't even crying.

 

Again, this is not to convince someone to get their kid circ'd because if I were to do it again, I wouldn't but I just don't think it's fair when people talk of the circ like it's a deal breaker for pleasurable sex and body image.

 

 

RE: the nursing home issue. I have seen nurses (hospital) not realize that old men were intact and therefore needed the foreskin pulled back into place over the cathetor tubing. I pointed it out to one who actually bacame angry with me. She argued he was circ'd. She had never seen one in her life and admitted that to me! Yet she would not listen to the advice of another nurse who had seen both children and men with foreskin. He was swelling - it was necessary to point it out to her that it was a fixable problem. But she refused to listen.

 

Education on the proper care of foreskin for infants and adults is seriously lacking among many nurses and doctors. We need to fix that, as so many people turn to us for answers and as a whole we can not provide them.

 

Infants are left alone.

Men have to retract and clean.

But I have heard of docs forcing the skin back on babies - tearing the sensitive tissues - yikes!

[Kelli in TN]

Both of my boys received sufficient local anesthetic, but I understand that is not common in most hospitals in our area.

 

Same here. We insisted on it.

 

I hated it and did not want it done, but I also did not find the reports of how awful it was or how much they would scream to be in true in our case. Perhaps because I was very firm on how this thing was going to be done if my husband insisted that it be done. I choose who would do it, I choose the place, the time, the method, etc.

 

Our sons were treated well.

[Laura K (NC)]

There was a man there with a horrible infection. It wasn't that the nurse aides didn't know how to clean him... we were all advised of the men who were not circ'd. It's that they didn't have the time/inclination to. That's never going to change.

 

Old men let their hygiene go sometimes before they get moved into a nursing home.

 

I was using a midwife with all three kids, and they all advocated against the procedure, but the image of that man's infection would not leave my mind, and my husband agreed with me.

 

My dh and I don't regret it, my dh doesn't regret his own, and I have never heard of a circ'd man who regretted it. I've only heard women advocating against the procedure -- not men. I think that's because women equate it with female circ. I haven't asked my 11, 13, and 15yo boys yet what their opinions are on the matter, but I think they would curl up and die before answering me. :p

[Night Elf]

However, something recently gave me pause on the issue. This was talked over with people who work in nursing homes from different parts of the US. The issue was that most of the staff don't want to clean uncircumcised males very well and they were getting very gross down there. Something to think about, because many people do end up with someone else willing or unwilling to do their personal care in their old age.

 

My first thought is that people like that are probably not cleaning any private area well. Bottoms get really gross too. What excuse do they ues to ignore that area? And weight is an issue. Some people are really turned off by overweight older people. I've been a part of 'to circ or not to circ' threads for for 11 years now since we chose to keep our son intact, and this is the first time I've ever seen this excuse. I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

[Night Elf]

... and I have never heard of a circ'd man who regretted it.

 

I'd like to introduce you to my husband, Martin. He wishes he was still intact and that is why he was completely against our son being circ'd. I have personally spoken to five other men about this issue: two are circ'd and regret it, two are not circ'd and do not regret it, one was born in Russia where he was not circ'd but upon his arrival in America at age 12 he was circ'd so he could look like other Americans and has regretted the decision. So there are 6 men you have now heard about. :)

[Lisa in Jax]

He was four when we met him, and I could not imagine circ'ing him at that age. What a rude introduction to your new loving family -- here, have surgery on your penis.... :eek:

 

Friends who adopted from the same orphanage have circ'ed their sons. I kept my opinions to myself, but I was bothered by their choice. (It was not done for religious reasons. I would have understood that, but I cannot understand doing it to a school-aged child "just because.")

 

If by some stroke of providence we ever have another child, we would not circumsize a boy.

 

Lisa

[dragons in the flower bed]

There was a man there with a horrible infection. It wasn't that the nurse aides didn't know how to clean him... we were all advised of the men who were not circ'd. It's that they didn't have the time/inclination to. That's never going to change.

 

Whether or not it's going to change, it should. Foreskins have a purpose. Old men often don't clean their ears well, either, and ear infections are gross, but we wouldn't routinely cut off the outer ear.

 

I have never heard of a circ'd man who regretted it. I've only heard women advocating against the procedure -- not men. I think that's because women equate it with female circ.

 

I first heard of it through a men's group that advocates protecting their sons. My partner and my brother were both circed and regret it. The director of INTACT is male, and NOHARMM is specifically a men's organization.

 

You can read some results of a poll about it here to get an idea of what the consequences of circumcision are for most men.

[LibraryLover]

We didn't, and I wouldn't. My dh is from a country which does not circ, but I wouldn't have done it no matter.

 

Circ seems to becoming less common here (US) than it once was, too. We've talked about this in various parents gatherings, and I was surpirsed to learn that a lot of fathers who are circ'd have young boys who are not. I think that's very interesting.

[Scarlett]

I've only heard women advocating against the procedure -- not men. I think that's because women equate it with female circ.

 

This is not the sort of topic most women would discuss with men, right? Not me anyway.

 

I am in the camp that let my dh decide. I did no research and did not try to persuade dh at all. So of course dh wanted him circumcised. I deeply regret it.

[RebeccaC]

Think about who would do this type of work in a nursing home, the least paid, the least educated, probably most over worked and least appreciated person on the team, the aid. The turn over for aids in nursing homes is high. Probably has something to do with the pay being just a little over minimum wage. I would not bank on change. The percentage of abuse in nursing homes is high if you want to call bed sores, ect ... abuse. If it is hard to get an aid to turn and old man over........

 

Ear cleaning has very little to do with ear infections :001_huh: bad analogy, sorry.....

 

Just because this is the first time one has seen this argument used does not invalidate the argument.

 

Like religion, legal marriage, spanking, vegan or not, psing or hsing, this is a private choice that has positives and negatives just like the other choices listed. I am sure that passions run high on both sides of this matter but maybe we can respect each others views.

 

Just for the record my mother ran a nuring home in the late 60s early 70s and her children were allowed to run free in the center. My dad was a pastor and I went on rounds as a teen with him to see folks in hospital, nursing homes, and homes for the sverely handicap and I never saw any thing close to ideal treatment in the many places we visited. I hope and pray that neither of my sons or my dh and I ever have to be placed in one.

[hsmamainva]

We didn't circ our boys and, being homeschooled, they've never had to deal with locker rooms or anything like that.

 

To them, it's natural and I can't imagine that it would 'freak their wife out'.

 

I saw no reason to hurt a newborn baby just so he'd "fit in" or because he might "need to be circ'ed in the future". To me, that would be the equivalent of removing a baby girl's breasts because she might get breast cancer one day.

[Old Dominion Heather]

All mine are...

 

No major issues.

[swellmomma]

I just wanted to add to my thoughts, BEfore my eldest was born I spoke to several families about their choic, including my own father (that was an awkward convo). My dad had his botched and had to have it repeated at age 1 yr, family friends son nearly bled to death and needed a transfusion at only hours old because of it, a few others talked about the lack of anesthetia used when their son's were done, my husband at the time had constant dry sore patches on his glans because it would get chafed rubbing on his undershorts (he had extremely sensitive skin). There was more and more pointing me away from it. Now when my oldest came along, he was born with a misalignment of the opening in the glans and the one on the foreskin, as well his foreskin was/is extremely long and tight(still does not retract). After a bout of chicken pox we went through several recurrent penile infection under the foreskin from sores caused by the pox and no way to retract and clean. We had to think about circing him at 4 years old. The urologist we saw was wonderful and actually said he though circing was not the healthiest way to go. Instead he helped make the opening of the foreskin big enough to fit a q-tip in to put antibiotic ointment on the glans to cure the infection. Now at nearly 10 my son is still intact, he is still not retractable, and he has been given the option of circing, having a snip put in to make the opening bigger to allow for ease of loosening, or simply allowing masturbation to create little tears that do the same thing. He has chosen route C, and he does know what those little tears feel like. You would think that after all that I would have circ'd my now 4 year old, but nope I did not, and he has never had a problem, he knows how to retract himself to clean himself, never an infection etc. The dr's have laughed about my oldest saying "If you have to have a minor defect, having it in the foreskin is the best place"

 

I just don't understand the mentality that we must circ to prevent "possible" problems that may or may not happen, we have gone through infection etc and it was easy to deal with, no lasting problems and still intact to boot. I also don't understand how you can look at an innocent, helpless infant, and say "welcome to the world, now let me introduce you to pain and suffering"

[Amy in NH]

I did a bunch of research and then had all three of my boys circ'd at birth for medical reasons. I didn't really care about the cosmetic thing, or "looking like Dad". My first two sons were done in the hospital, the third I brought to a pediatric urologist after having a home birth. Medicaid paid for all three (the youngest was done six years ago).

[Michelle T]

I'm Jewish, so obviously that plays a part, but I would have had it done no matter what. DH is also cut, and agreed.

Michelle T

[Laura K (NC)]

nt

[Laura K (NC)]

Appendixes (dang... forums/fora, appendixes/appendices?) have a purpose too, or did once upon a time. My dh and ds's don't seem to miss them any more than they'd miss an appendix. My dh was circ'd for social reasons. My ds's for medical reasons. And I have my ears pierced, but would never get a boob job. This isn't a hill to die on, though. I'm not challenging anyone to a duel, and I'm not going to change my mind, and neither are you. I don't think this is an absolute good OR an absolute evil that will work for all people.

[Laura K (NC)]

Normally I don't know such intimate details about married men I'm introduced to... :biggrinjester:

 

I'm so glad that we haven't actually met! :blush:

[kalanamak]

 

However, something recently gave me pause on the issue. This was talked over with people who work in nursing homes from different parts of the US. The issue was that most of the staff don't want to clean uncircumcised males very well and they were getting very gross down there. .

 

Also a problem with the seriously mentally ill and anyone else who can't/doesn't bathe themselves. This can become a real problem. One that is "stuck" is no fun either. Older diabetics, in particular, can get "stuck" in the "up" position and cause great pain and swelling and surgery must be done. It is a very willing man who is caught in this position!

 

However, with a normal baby and living with running water, we did not circ. Hubby was all for it to "match him", and I had to point out he wasn't either, but simply has his "blinds in the up position" all the time. What a laugh.

[Mrs Mungo]

This is not the sort of topic most women would discuss with men, right? Not me anyway.

 

I am in the camp that let my dh decide. I did no research and did not try to persuade dh at all. So of course dh wanted him circumcised. I deeply regret it.

 

What do you mean? I'm not saying we should poll casual acquaintances on the topic but I don't have any trouble discussing intimate issues with my husband.

[Scarlett]

I am in the camp that let my dh decide. I did no research and did not try to persuade dh at all. So of course dh wanted him circumcised. I deeply regret it.

 

What do you mean? I'm not saying we should poll casual acquaintances on the topic but I don't have any trouble discussing intimate issues with my husband.

 

:). I didn't mean our dh's. I mean, other than our dhs. Other than dh, I can't imagine that it would be typical to discuss circumcision with men.

 

YMMV

[percytruffle]

Wow - I'm definitely in the minority on this board. I have six sons, and all of them have been circ'ed, and we don't regret it at all. I did my research, but I finally figured that if the good Lord himself said it was okay for his chosen people, then it must not be that bad of a thing, right? And I have heard the arguments about cleanliness, etc. Also, there is a higher incidence of women who have uncirc'ed partners catching HPV and developing cervical cancer than women whose partners are not circ'ed. I don't see it as barbaric at all. All my sons were anesthetised at the time, and they healed up quickly and without any trouble whatsoever. And if I were to have another boy some day, we would do it again. JMO.

 

 

 

Good points. I have heard this too about the HPV/cervical cancer connection to noncircumcision. I have found that although as a Christian I feel I am not bound to the laws of the OT, there is so much wisdom in following many of them still or at least in allowing yourself to investigate the scientific basis for them to see if they are relevent in today's world. The scary thing is, I have had precancerous cells removed from the area is question. Hmm.

 

Dh is intact as is ds and my dad was also (or so my mom told me). Dh's dad, I'm not sure, but I suspect he isn't. I didn't think anything of the fact that dh wasn't circ'd.

[Mrs Mungo]

What do you mean? I'm not saying we should poll casual acquaintances on the topic but I don't have any trouble discussing intimate issues with my husband.

 

:). I didn't mean our dh's. I mean, other than our dhs. Other than dh, I can't imagine that it would be typical to discuss circumcision with men.

 

YMMV

 

I see. From the whole quote it sounded like you didn't discuss it with your dh, you just put it in his hands. I still wouldn't have a problem discussing it with close family members or friends (keeping in mind as a military family many of our friends are as close as family) but I can understand why some women might.

[Scarlett]

I see. From the whole quote it sounded like you didn't discuss it with your dh, you just put it in his hands. I still wouldn't have a problem discussing it with close family members or friends (keeping in mind as a military family many of our friends are as close as family) but I can understand why some women might.

 

No, that isn't what I meant. I had no problem discussing it with dh. I just didn't. My pregnancy was stressful enough for dh (his internal issues) and so it just wasn't a hill I wanted to die on. I didn't even research it. When I did I was very irritated at myself for not having done it BEFORE ds was circ'd. Although as I said, things were so stressful I probably wouldn't have said too much.

 

I have discussed the circumcision issue with a few of our close friends. My best friend's dh is almost 50 and intact because he was born 3 months premature and that © was the least of their concerns at that time. Apparently neither of them mind. Two other couples who are close friends of ours have discussed it and both men say they are against it although I believe both are circumcised. One of those couples has all girls, but the other couple has a new baby boy and they left him intact.

[Catherine]

it's performing it on a wide awake, conscious baby without benefit of local or sedation that I objected to. Truly, it is a personal decision. I think that parents now are more savvy than even 10 or 20 years ago and the docs who perform them are much more apt to numb the...area...

[kokotg]

three intact boys here. It's always seemed to me that the default position should be NOT to cut off body parts, and there'd need to be a really, REALLY good reason to do so. I don't have a good reason, so we leave 'em the way they come out!

[Sue G in PA]

I didn't think my thread would get such a response! Thank you all for sharing your stories and experiences. We chose NOT to circ. b/c I felt the procedure was unnecessary and for the pain caused to the newborn...completely not worth it. Circ. should also, from what I've read, NEVER be done on a newborn less than a week old. In the OT, remember that God gave specific instructions on WHEN a child was to be circ'ed...it was like 7 days old or something like that. There was a REASON for that! Thus the reasons for all the "tragedies" when the baby is just 2 days old or less...excessing bleeding being just one. Anyway, not to cause any more debate...All my IRL friends have had their baby boys circ'ed and I certainly don't judge them for their decision nor do they judge me for mine. Dh is circ'ed and he at first wanted to have dc "match" him, but after reading up on the issue...he decided against it. We would have gotten a moyel (sp?) to do it bc dc was born at home and b/c of what we read about the reasons to do the "bris" at a week after birth (medical reasons).

 

Anyway, thanks for all the great responses! I'm feeling better about our decision.

[Miss Marple]

Similar experience here. I was working as a pharmacist on the surgical ward of a VA hospital (not a pretty place). We had multiple elderly men come in to be circ'd because they wouldn't/couldn't maintain hygiene. And the infections that can cause are simply awful! One sweet gentleman's p-nis was literally eaten away by infection. I had no children at the time, but it certainly is an image that stayed with me and was especially vivid around the births of my 4 sons.

[Miss Marple]

I'm curious about the specifics that they regret. What do they deem is lost (besides the obvious)?

[dirty ethel rackham]

Oh, about 10,000 to 20,000 nerve endings to start. Here is a link for more information on what may be missing.

http://www.noharmm.org/advantage.htm

[dirty ethel rackham]

I had this done to my boys. I had known then what I know no, I would have made a different choice.

 

When I learned about the history of circumcision in this country, I was appalled. The original rationale was because they believed it would prevent m*sturbation, since it was believed to cause blindness and insanity among other things. Well, we have generations of circ'd men and I think we can pretty well be sure it hasn't make a dent in that activity. Later, the medical community kept coming up with reasons to make the practice widespread, none of which have borne up to scrutiny. There are still myths out there, many perpetuated by medical practitioners, who have not used critical thinking to evaluate this practice.

 

UTI's - According to studies done in the US, intact infant males have fewer UTI'S than infant females, yet we aren't up in arms about cutting them. Also, the US studies that show more UTI's in intact males than circ'd males are flawed. Comparing intact males from Europe (where circumcision is rarely done except for religious reasons) to circ'd males in the US, the rates are comparable. A possible reason why some studies in the US show an increase in UTI's is due to misinformation on how to care for an intact penis. Many US health care providers are still unaware that they should not forcibly retract the foreskin, but LEAVE IT ALONE. The centers where these studies were done did not control for improper vs. proper foreskin care. Many docs do not know when a foreskin separates on its own (it is normal for it to not be retractable until well into puberty.)

 

Penile cancer - It is a VERY rare disease. Studies show that in order to save one elderly man from penile cancer, 200 infants will suffer complications from circumcision. Some of these include excessive blood loss, damage from cutting off too much, and even disability or death from anesthesia incidents during subsequent operations to repair a botched job.

 

Phismosis - another area rife with misinformation. Phismosis is rare in Europe. Even when it occurs, circumcision is rarely recommended. More conservative methods are done first. Here, it is diagnosed too quickly and radical surgery is recommended to cure it when other, more conservative methods would be effective. Also, due to the misinformation on the care of the intact penis, scar tissue may form from forcibly retracting the foreskin prematurely, causing microtears.

 

HIV/AIDS - A study came out a year or two ago, advocating circ as a preventative measure for HIV transmission. It made headlines everywhere. Activists are calling for circumcising the African subcontinent. However, no one reported the appalling, glaring flaws in the design of the studies. When I read about this, I was physically sick at the intellectual dishonest (or outright lack of critical thinking) on the part of the scientists. Basically, they did not account for the period of abstinence after the operation and subsequent condom use of those who were circ'd. The study was stopped before enough time had passed to allow the circ'd group to have an equalizing number of "unprotected relations" to make the study valid. Also, it goes without saying that circumcision has not cut down on transmission of HIV in this country! Condom use would be way more effective - the same could be said for HPV/cervical cancer. HPV is very prevalent in this country and circumcision has not prevented that.

 

Pain: It is an extremely painful procedure. Think ripping of skin that is highly ennervated! Although the AAP finally recongnized this, pain relief is not routine - at least not here in the midwest. Parents have to pretty much insist on it because the docs here are very afraid of anesthesia in infants, and not without reason.

 

About the social aspects - as one boy pointed out, it would be a greater social faux pas to admit to checking out someone else's "package" than to actually have a different one. Education is the answer for this one.

 

About the wife ... well, if she is too shallow to accept someone the way that God made him ... maybe I shouldn't go there:) Again, education on the issue is important. She may actually find it more appealing once she understands the function and purpose of a foreskin.

 

I am all for people making their own decisions on this issue. However, I am passionate about wanting them to make sure it is an informed choice.

[jmgconner]

Oldest DS is circ. Two youngest are not. I had DS#1 circ because I thought that's just what you do and that they would pee funny if it wasn't done. (don't laugh - I was young and dumb). I remember when they brought DS to me following the procedure. He was in shock. I was too dumb to realize it then, but I knew it my heart of hearts that something was wrong. I regretted my post-partum experience with that hospital so much.

 

Fast forward eight years - I educated myself on circs, and knew that I did not want to have my DS#2 circed. Had absolutely no problem convincing DH after spending a week in NICU and we endured the circ hour every morning when they would perform the procedure. It haunts me. Those nurses would lie, too. "He did such a good job. He didn't even cry" they'd say. BULL. I was there. I listened to the screams.

[momtoboys]

My boys are both circumcised because we wanted them to "look" like DH and it is easier to clean/prevent infections IMO.

 

I realize that some people are strongly anti-Circ, but this was are decision for our family. I respect the positions of others. Both boys DID have anesthesia for the procedure.

[mo2]

I had my son circumcised and completely regret it. I knew in my heart that it was wrong, but I let myself be talked into it by the doctor, my family, and dh's family. I could kick myself for not being a stronger person and listening to myself!!

 

Despite what everyone (including the doctors) told me, my son was miserable for at least a week afterward. Even just accidentally brushing against his diaper area (fully clothed) would make him cry, and diaper changes were torture. What was I thinking?? I feel like I betrayed my son.

[Night Elf]

Normally I don't know such intimate details about married men I'm introduced to... :biggrinjester:

 

I'm so glad that we haven't actually met! :blush:

 

Well, the way you worded your post, and your exact quote is "...I have never heard of a circ'd man who regretted it.", implied you have talked with other men besides your DH about this topic. If you haven't and I embarrassed you, I apologize. This topic and others that some people consider very private don't embarrass my DH or myself. I would never walk up to a stranger and ask such a personal question. The friends we have had over the years were as open as we are about things like this we consider to be a natural part of being alive. Again, sorry if I embarrassed you.

[Night Elf]

Just because this is the first time one has seen this argument used does not invalidate the argument.

 

I am assuming you are referring to my post where I said I'd been in these discussions for 11 years and have never heard this excuse. However, I did NOT say it invalidated the argument. I do understand how this could be an issue for some people. It is not good enough for me though. I liken it to cutting off girls' breasts so they won't get breast cancer, refusing to allow my children to ride in a car to prevent them being hurt in an accident, keeping them on a strict diet to keep them thin and shaming them into staying that way so that if they do need to go to a nursing home when they are elderly, they won't be overweight and disgusting to caregivers. I could go on but I feel I've made my point.

 

It doesn't matter if we share beliefs. However, I will admit I do laugh and cry at what some other people think and do. For example, I'm absolutely petrified about the young girl mentioned on this board that is missing. My heart ached and I cried real tears when the daughter of a Sonlight forum member died a year ago to cancer. This is why I said I didn't know whether to laugh or cry at the idea that one would consider circumsizing a baby boy for the sole reason of making sure his penis is easy to clean if lives in a nursing home as an elderly man.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Years ago, while I wasn't a mom, and I was still working, I was in an organization that was very production-focused. Very little small talk during the day, it was all about work work work. I was the only woman in our work team. And then I got pregnant with a boy....

 

The circumcision question came up at home. DH is, in fact all the males on my side of the family are too, except for the new generation, where no one is. A lot of the men on my team were fathers, so I hesitantly asked them (via email, and I left the premises right after I sent that email! :lol:) whether their son were circ. or not... I honestly was shaking when I wrote that email! To my surprise, everyone on my team answered me (with a reply all, so the whole team was part of the discussion!). And all of them told me their *own* state!!! Those of European descent were not, those of American were, and for the Canadian-born, it depended on their age. Then they started a discussion as to whether they were more sensitive or less, down there...

 

Now, all this via email, from one cubicle to another. Yet we never spoke about it ! And somewhere, at Microsoft, in the email archives, there is this lengthy discussion about circumcision! :lol:

[Night Elf]

I am all for people making their own decisions on this issue. However, I am passionate about wanting them to make sure it is an informed choice.

 

This was an excellent post. I wanted to quote just a snippet so that everyone would know to which post I was referring to when I say...

 

your post reminded me of my thoughts on what makes a woman attractive. Everyone knows that being extremely underweight is unhealthy, just like being extremely overweight is unhealthy. Doctors and counselors try to help people through eating disorders so they can have a healthy body. Celebraties are often gossiped about because of their underweight status, i.e. so and so's newest picture taken at the beach reveals a possible anorexic condition. Yet despite all of this, the world of fashion and style continue to use extremely thin people as models. These are role models for our society. Maybe the idea behind the continuation of circ'ing male babies is just simply because it is what has always been done (one wonders how long that always is anyway) and it is the normal way to look.

 

Just a thought anyway.

[percytruffle]

Cleo, that is too funny! Thanks for sharing that.

[Jumping In Puddles]

This is why I said I didn't know whether to laugh or cry at the idea that one would consider circumsizing a baby boy for the sole reason of making sure his penis is easy to clean if lives in a nursing home as an elderly man.

 

I don't know if you're referring to me... but that certainly was NOT the "sole reason".

[HFClassicalAcademy]

I have all my 3 boys intact. We were convinced that they were going to be circumcised because their dad is, but there is no real medical basis for doing it. Our pediatrician and my ob/gyn both advised against it (there really isn't a need, they said). So while our oldest was on his way to get it done, we quickly called the doctor to tell him that we had changed our minds.

 

One thing our pediatrician says is that they will get more feeling down there once they become sexually active. I guess that's a good thing, right?:o

 

Liz

[Heather in Neverland]

I'd like to introduce you to my husband, Martin. He wishes he was still intact and that is why he was completely against our son being circ'd. I have personally spoken to five other men about this issue: two are circ'd and regret it, two are not circ'd and do not regret it, one was born in Russia where he was not circ'd but upon his arrival in America at age 12 he was circ'd so he could look like other Americans and has regretted the decision. So there are 6 men you have now heard about. :)

 

 

Interesting...

 

My oldest ds was circ'd. He was our first and to be honest, I don't even remember the doctor even asking me but I was on heavy meds so who knows?

 

Our 2nd ds was adopted from Korea, no circ. there, but they told us we could still have it done. I personally don't have an opinion one way or the other but dh felt very strongly that he should be circ'd.

 

So I started asking around. I asked every male in my life...brothers, cousins, friends, co-workers...seriously, I asked no less than 25 men of various ages what they thought we should do and EVERY SINGLE ONE said get him circumcised (and I am pretty sure they all thought I was a little weird for asking).

 

I admit I was a little taken aback by how important they all thought it was since it didn't seem that important to me. But, since it was very important to dh, we did it.

 

Side note...if you are going to get them circ'd, do it at birth. Doing it later (like age 2) is much worse. He is fine now and doesn't remember it but I won't lie and say it was pleasant.

[Donna]

Their father is and their poppop isn't. Neither is their uncle. According to my father, once they grown...the skin stays back and it doesn't look that much different. (I have never looked so will have to take his word for it.)

[dirty ethel rackham]

Maybe the idea behind the continuation of circ'ing male babies is just simply because it is what has always been done (one wonders how long that always is anyway) and it is the normal way to look.

 

 

 

The practice of non-religious circumcision started in the US around 1870. North America and South Korea are the only places in the world where non-religious infant circumcision is routinely practiced. (South Korea started in the 1950's after the presence of Americans after the Korean War.)

[Jenny in Florida]

It was something I had never really thought about . . . until we found out we were having a boy. (The first pregnancy we didn't know the gender for sure until she was born, but somehow it just never seemed like anything to worry about.)

 

I started off assuming we would, not for any well-informed reason, but just because I automatically delegated the decision to my husband. Then, though, a friend passed on some articles about reasons not to circumcise, and I started doing research. Eventually, I decided I would prefer not going that route and asked my husband to take a look at the information and reconsider.

 

We went to our pediatrician and asked his opinion, and he told me he was "officially wishy-washy." He and his wife had three sons, had circumcised the first one and not the other two, because more information had become available in the intervening time.

 

In general, I tend to be of a "first do no harm" viewpoint about most medical decisions. So, this came down to the fact that no one could give us a single convincingly good reason to mess with nature and inflict harm.

[Peek a Boo]

We would have gotten a moyel (sp?) to do it bc dc was born at home and b/c of what we read about the reasons to do the "bris" at a week after birth (medical reasons).

 

 

a mohel :)

we did this w/ #5, altho it apparently wasn't as strict as the following page says it should be.... Eliana could probably give a better run down on the differences.

 

http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/cycle/circumcision.htm

 

it was kinda wierd for me :). i had been expecting the address to be an office, and instead ended up being a home. The mohel was excellent --he explained clearly what was going on [i already knew, lol], what would hurt and why, and what he planned to do to alleviate the pain and follow up care.

 

He did use some special tool for the procedure, and some powder that stopped the crying almost immediately. None of my circ'd 3 had recovery issues.

 

Since #5 was already just over a month old at the time, he was the biggest one there. It resembled an assembly line: each baby was circ'd quickly and each one stopped crying quickly.

 

 

I'll add that [like Heather in NC] i have never talked to a circ'd man that "regretted" being circ'd. And like Audrey, I tend to be [and spend time w/ people who are] pretty open about that kinda stuff, lol.

[keptwoman]

We are from New Zealand where it is not done. I never even thought about it until I found out some US friends were doing it to their boys, then I read up on it. When my DS found out such a practice existed he was horrified.

DH is not done, but his brother is and I have spoken to him about it, he is very very angry about it. He feels that something was taken from his body without his consent for no good reason.

People may say that not many men are upset about it, and perhaps that is the case for your husbands age, because "everyone" had it, then what's to be angry about. But I'd wager that rather more of your sons may be upset about it later in life as it is not the default setting any more, parents have a choice and make it conciously.

 

As for the nursing home issue, if it came to that I daresay men could get circed at 60, at least they have had their lives worth of use, sensation and protection from their foreskin.

[Frelle]

I have one son and 3 daughters. Our son is intact. I researched circumcision and decided that I did not want my son circumcised. I asked my husband what he thought, and he (though circumcised), said that he did not feel it was medically necessary and that the New Testament seemed pretty clear to him on the fact that circumcision was no longer necessary as far as a biblical arguement. And we are not Jewish, so we were not going to have him circumcised for a religious reason.

 

I dont know if anyone posted about this, but very many men who are intact suffered at the hands of uninformed doctors when they were forcibly retracted as children. Many older men have issues with phimosis. There are two kinds of phimosis, natal and acquired:

 

Acquired phimosis happens when the skin has been forcibly retracted and tears in the skin result from that forcible retraction. Over years, the skin becomes harder on that scar tissue than on the rest of the skin. The highest rates of aquired phimosis happen to be found in the US. Natal phimosis is very rare here and in other countries, where there is a true inability to retract that usually requires surgery.

[elizabeth]

 

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/105/3/e36 2 kinds of cancer folks one of which is rarely seen in circumcised males.

[Desert Rat]

Our boys are intact. My dh is circed but my dad, who was born in a farm house in rural Missouri, isn't. So if I had any questions I could ask him (I suppose, but I might be too embarrassed!).

We did our research and because we couldn't find anywhere that said that circ'ing SIGNIFICANTLY reduced the risk of infections, we decided not to. Also, we do think it's a very private area and our boys have the right to make their own decisions about whether or not they wanted a turtleneck. :o)

FWIW, if my son was in a locker room and another boy made fun of him for the look of his willie, we'd have a lot more to discuss with that child and his parents than the topic of circumsion!

HTH