TravelingChris Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I am with the others that I have nothing to add but wanted to register my dislike of the Pearls and their method of 'discipline'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 there were six kids old enough for the pre-adoption interview. I'm surprised nothing was uncovered by kids being disciplined in such a drastic, abusive way. Â The kids were isolated, afraid of outsiders, raised to believe that their parents were godly and the methods they used were correct, and that the state/powers that be/ agencies were godless, intrusive entities who were trying to take God out of everything and everyone. If children are raised like this for their entire lives, a type of brainwashing occurs, and they believe it all. It does not surprise me one tiny bit that the kids toed the party line when speaking with adoption workers. They were coached on what to say, and the consequences for not saying it were grave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybear Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 On the other side, these stories always make me go hug my children. Lots. And this time I also asked if either of them wanted anything to eat. Â This is so, so sad.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlylocks Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I have nothing to add -- other than my dislike for the Pearls. (and that is putting it mildly :glare: ) Â For the record: Pearl books make EXCELLENT fire-starter. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Okay, here's an honest question. I live in a pretty conservative area of the country. I may have heard the Pearls mentioned in homeschooling circles years ago, I don't know, never paid attention. Â Is there an acceptance of the Pearls as a homeschooling thing? IOW do people outside homeschooling believe that the Pearls are accepted and embraced in our community, which I realize is vast and diverse? Â Is there a need for homeschoolers to take a stand against the Pearls ilk? Or are we best to ignore them and burn books in private? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 The kids were isolated, afraid of outsiders, raised to believe that their parents were godly and the methods they used were correct, and that the state/powers that be/ agencies were godless, intrusive entities who were trying to take God out of everything and everyone. If children are raised like this for their entire lives, a type of brainwashing occurs, and they believe it all. It does not surprise me one tiny bit that the kids toed the party line when speaking with adoption workers. They were coached on what to say, and the consequences for not saying it were grave. Â Makes sense, but I just ............................... :crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Okay, here's an honest question. I live in a pretty conservative area of the country. I may have heard the Pearls mentioned in homeschooling circles years ago, I don't know, never paid attention. Â Is there an acceptance of the Pearls as a homeschooling thing? IOW do people outside homeschooling believe that the Pearls are accepted and embraced in our community, which I realize is vast and diverse? Â Is there a need for homeschoolers to take a stand against the Pearls ilk? Or are we best to ignore them and burn books in private? Â Check the amazon reviews. Note there are 380 five-star and 730 one-star. Also check the comments on the first several one-star, where there's a fair number of people claiming that anyone who abuses is misapplying their teachings. Â I'm not saying that you need to go post about how awful they are on every site you can reach -- but you should be aware about a) what their book says and b) what they stand for, so that when you see it given (as it often is) to a young mother, you can give counterinformation. Â PS. Ezzo's books, especially their breastfeeding advice, have also resulted in a fair number of illnesses and deaths, for another one that you might not have on their radar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma2three Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I couldn't even read all those quotes, it was making me feel ill. Â Those poor, poor children. :crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Okay, here's an honest question. I live in a pretty conservative area of the country. I may have heard the Pearls mentioned in homeschooling circles years ago, I don't know, never paid attention. Â Is there an acceptance of the Pearls as a homeschooling thing? IOW do people outside homeschooling believe that the Pearls are accepted and embraced in our community, which I realize is vast and diverse? Â Is there a need for homeschoolers to take a stand against the Pearls ilk? Or are we best to ignore them and burn books in private? While I've been reading this thread I've wondered the same thing. Why aren't homeschoolers and Christians in general taking a stand against the Pearls and their books. A letter writing campaign to the publisher or to bookstores, libraries that stock these vile books might be a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 While I've been reading this thread I've wondered the same thing. Why aren't homeschoolers and Christians in general taking a stand against the Pearls and their books. A letter writing campaign to the publisher or to bookstores, libraries that stock these vile books might be a start. Â They are and they have. I'm on the way out the door, but I'll be back later with some links and quotes. Â If anyone wants to google, start with a search on Robin Sampson, Heart of Wisdom, homeschoolers, Rob Shearer, Timberdoodle...you should find Robin Sampson's article listing many of the prominent conservative Christians and homeschoolers who have spoken out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 They are and they have. I'm on the way out the door, but I'll be back later with some links and quotes. If anyone wants to google, start with a search on Robin Sampson, Heart of Wisdom, homeschoolers, Rob Shearer, Timberdoodle...you should find Robin Sampson's article listing many of the prominent conservative Christians and homeschoolers who have spoken out. Thanks. Isn't this the 4th or 5th death of a child attributed to the parents reading these books? Have they all been adopted children? I'd be willing to add my voice (write letters, post something on my blog) but I don't have resources to anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Makes sense, but I just ............................... :crying: Â I know. I share that feeling. It is very sad for their bio kids, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Check the amazon reviews. Note there are 380 five-star and 730 one-star. Also check the comments on the first several one-star, where there's a fair number of people claiming that anyone who abuses is misapplying their teachings. Â Â Â Even I have written Amazon (yesterday) asking they remove the book. I said that such lewd stuff as Last Exit to Brooklyn is less harmful than this book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usetoschool Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) While I've been reading this thread I've wondered the same thing. Why aren't homeschoolers and Christians in general taking a stand against the Pearls and their books. A letter writing campaign to the publisher or to bookstores, libraries that stock these vile books might be a start. Â I have been thinking the same thing. What can I do? How can I help? What can we, as a pretty large community, do? Would it matter if I went to the local Christian bookstore to see if they carry it and enlighten them? How do we make a difference? Â eta: added my voice on Amazon...heaven help these children Edited October 2, 2011 by jcooperetc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Even I have written Amazon (yesterday) asking they remove the book. I said that such lewd stuff as Last Exit to Brooklyn is less harmful than this book. How did you go about this? I think I'd like to point out that there has been more than one death attributed to the advice in this book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Just thought I'd update on my behavioral vomiter. We are currently at ER. I still dont know that he is sick but the amt of vomiting the last few days seems problematic even if it is on purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Just thought I'd update on my behavioral vomiter. We are currently at ER. I still dont know that he is sick but the amt of vomiting the last few days seems problematic even if it is on purpose. Â :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 They are and they have. I'm on the way out the door, but I'll be back later with some links and quotes. If anyone wants to google, start with a search on Robin Sampson, Heart of Wisdom, homeschoolers, Rob Shearer, Timberdoodle...you should find Robin Sampson's article listing many of the prominent conservative Christians and homeschoolers who have spoken out.  Thanks, I'll look at those.  I have been thinking the same thing. What can I do? How can I help? What can we, as a pretty large community, do? Would it matter if I went to the local Christian bookstore to see if they carry it and enlighten them? How do we make a difference? eta: added my voice on Amazon...heaven help these children  :bigear: And what can one do who is unwilling to read the books? I'm a fairly non-controversial person, but I plan to look for the books at thrift stores etc, and remove them from circulation. Should I read the book,( didn't someone link it earlier?) to add my informed comments, instead of just my third party disgust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Just thought I'd update on my behavioral vomiter. We are currently at ER. I still dont know that he is sick but the amt of vomiting the last few days seems problematic even if it is on purpose. Oh, I hope he is okay. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Even I have written Amazon (yesterday) asking they remove the book. I said that such lewd stuff as Last Exit to Brooklyn is less harmful than this book. Â Â There is actually an official online petition going for Amazon to stop stocking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 There is actually an official online petition going for Amazon to stop stocking it. Â where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 where? Â Â Details on it; scroll down for the link to it. Â http://www.drmomma.org/2011/09/amazon-we-find-child-abuse-offensive.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Just thought I'd update on my behavioral vomiter. We are currently at ER. I still dont know that he is sick but the amt of vomiting the last few days seems problematic even if it is on purpose. Â poor little guy. :sad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gailmegan Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Just signed the petition and posted it on my FB. Please, everyone go sign! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 where? Here is a link to the actual petition: Â Human Rights Petition: Amazon: Refuse to carry books that advocate the physical abuse of children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggieamy Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 On the other side, these stories always make me go hug my children. Lots. And this time I also asked if either of them wanted anything to eat. This is so, so sad..........  Little Librarian is notoroious for being hungry twenty minutes after dinner. That is after she ate only tiny portions of what I served for dinner. :glare: I think today if she tells me she's hungry after dinner I'll give her ice cream and we'll bake some cookies. I'm lucky to have her as a kid.  There was a girl about 13 sitting in front of me in church today. Looking at her she's still much closer to a child than to an adult. How could someone deliberately starve a child like that?!?! Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 There is actually an official online petition going for Amazon to stop stocking it. Â Thanks, signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggieamy Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I signed and actually posted it on my facebook. Probably the first thing I've posted there in about a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Is there a petition specific to the Pearls' books? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Signed & posted to FB, citing another Pearl-related death as the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Just thought I'd update on my behavioral vomiter. We are currently at ER. I still dont know that he is sick but the amt of vomiting the last few days seems problematic even if it is on purpose. Â Home. I told dr I wasn't sure if it was behavioral as it often is or something more since it has happened so many times since Thursday morning. I also told them I was worried that behavioral or not, it could hurt him. Â His paperwork says "behavior problem in child." They told me what to look for for real issues. And they told me to give him plenty to drink after he pukes to keep him hydrated. What was REALLY interesting though is they suggest the GI Psych. I never would have guessed there *was* such a thing! Anyway, so that should prove to be interesting. Â Anyway, I wish I knew how to respond or anything I could do (outside of being permissive) to prevent it. I feel clueless and helpless sometimes :( Â Of course, I won't be following the Pearl's advice of just feeding him cold left overs out in extreme weather and beating him until he comes around. I may be a little less clueless than that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 While I've been reading this thread I've wondered the same thing. Why aren't homeschoolers and Christians in general taking a stand against the Pearls and their books. A letter writing campaign to the publisher or to bookstores, libraries that stock these vile books might be a start. Â I believe they are self-published. Complaints to the publisher will go right to the Pearls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 :iagree::iagree::iagree:Â How about if I give someone a glass full of raw sewage to drink but add a few drops of purified water? Would they drink it? I mean, come on, I realize the majority of it is filth but there is SOME good water in there, right? How about if you drink the glass down but just spit out all the filth and keep only the "good parts"? Â Sound reasonable? :glare: I swear if I see one of those books I will set it on fire. Â Â Heather, that is the best analogy I have ever seen for those books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 cbd also carries Pearl products, in case anyone wants to comment on their page. http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/search?author=Michael%20Pearl&detailed_search=1&action=Search:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphina Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 cbd also carries Pearl products, in case anyone wants to comment on their page. http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/search?author=Michael%20Pearl&detailed_search=1&action=Search:confused: Â I shouldn't have gone to that site. I can't believe people not only defend but encourage people to read the Pearls' books, saying they are "must haves." Their poor children. How could any Christian believe that this is how God wants us to treat our children? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Heather, that is the best analogy I have ever seen for those books. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Would a GI Psych be a person who helps people with eating disorders? I would guess there is a big calling for that. Good luck.:grouphug: Â Home. I told dr I wasn't sure if it was behavioral as it often is or something more since it has happened so many times since Thursday morning. I also told them I was worried that behavioral or not, it could hurt him. Â His paperwork says "behavior problem in child." They told me what to look for for real issues. And they told me to give him plenty to drink after he pukes to keep him hydrated. What was REALLY interesting though is they suggest the GI Psych. I never would have guessed there *was* such a thing! Anyway, so that should prove to be interesting. Â Anyway, I wish I knew how to respond or anything I could do (outside of being permissive) to prevent it. I feel clueless and helpless sometimes :( Â Of course, I won't be following the Pearl's advice of just feeding him cold left overs out in extreme weather and beating him until he comes around. I may be a little less clueless than that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticmom Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I went to the site with the petition and the petition also listed two other books by different authors that also recommend hitting babies under one year. I think I need the puking frownie(I don't think that would be a smilie). I had no idea that there were that many books like that out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Home. I told dr I wasn't sure if it was behavioral as it often is or something more since it has happened so many times since Thursday morning. I also told them I was worried that behavioral or not, it could hurt him. Â His paperwork says "behavior problem in child." They told me what to look for for real issues. And they told me to give him plenty to drink after he pukes to keep him hydrated. What was REALLY interesting though is they suggest the GI Psych. I never would have guessed there *was* such a thing! Anyway, so that should prove to be interesting. Â Anyway, I wish I knew how to respond or anything I could do (outside of being permissive) to prevent it. I feel clueless and helpless sometimes :( Â Of course, I won't be following the Pearl's advice of just feeding him cold left overs out in extreme weather and beating him until he comes around. I may be a little less clueless than that! Â Has there been any thing unusual or more stress recently? How are you reacting when he vomits? He's 5, isn't he? Â I'm sure you know this, but kids who have trauma have anniversary dates stored in their cells. My dd was only 14 months old when we got her, but she will have pee/poo issues EVERY summer. Why summer? I don't know. But clearly there's a reason for it. This is the first year EVER that she made it all the way to Sept. before they started up. Thankfully, a few days and it was over. She used to have issues every May, too. Those have stopped. So maybe this is an anniversary of some sort of trauma the little guy experienced. Â What is recommended for pee/poo is to have the child do all the cleaning themselves. I'm not sure if the people at Heather's forum would handle this differently. Do you belong to her yahoo group? If so, I think they could give you a lot of help over there. Â :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Little Librarian is notoroious for being hungry twenty minutes after dinner. That is after she ate only tiny portions of what I served for dinner. :glare: I think today if she tells me she's hungry after dinner I'll give her ice cream and we'll bake some cookies. I'm lucky to have her as a kid. Â There was a girl about 13 sitting in front of me in church today. Looking at her she's still much closer to a child than to an adult. How could someone deliberately starve a child like that?!?! Ugh. Â we try not to have much sugar here. Oh well...... I bought fudge. Dd8 can't have chocolate so she enjoyed a nice hunk of pumpkin pie fudge. :001_smile: Â I just keep thinking over and over that I'm SO GLAD she's *MY* RAD kid. I know they're so difficult to handle, but I'm so thankful to have her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellesmere Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) Okay, here's an honest question. I live in a pretty conservative area of the country. I may have heard the Pearls mentioned in homeschooling circles years ago, I don't know, never paid attention. Â Is there an acceptance of the Pearls as a homeschooling thing? IOW do people outside homeschooling believe that the Pearls are accepted and embraced in our community, which I realize is vast and diverse? Â Is there a need for homeschoolers to take a stand against the Pearls ilk? Or are we best to ignore them and burn books in private? Â I don't know about the Pearls, but the Ezzos are widely read and respected in at least one homeschool group that I've encountered. ETA: To my knowledge, they are followed in churches which use a variety of schooling methods. And in our area, I could see people assuming that homeschoolers are Pearl followers if they don't know much about the homeschool community's diversity since a lot of homeschoolers that I've run into seem to be of the brand of church that promotes their type of teaching. And I know a lot of people wrongly assume all homeschoolers are Christian. Â If you see someone wavering in that direction (but open to advice, help, or direction), gently and kindly help that person out, if you can. Know the facts about the Ezzos/Pearls; if you go off about exaggerations (which there are some untrue ones about the Ezzos, at least. There's plenty to pick apart without misrepresenting their writings) the conversation won't go anywhere if you can be discredited for taking things out of context. Stick to the facts of what they actually teach, and how they teach it -- there is plenty in the actual writings to cause concern, outrage, and cause for taking a stand in some way. Â For those who are devoted followers, I don't think you would get far unless you can first help them out from the potential spiritually oppressive or abusive situation that they are in. (And I say "abusive" very carefully, since many times the leader of the church is not intending to do spiritual harm nor do they view their promotion of the Pearls or Ezzos in a negative light. If they thought it was really wrong, they wouldn't promote them.) Arguing or debating about the Pearls usually doesn't work. Realize they buy into this out of fear -- fear of having rebellious, drug-abusing children that will go to he-- if they don't use the switch, fear of being embarrassed in their social support and community (church) if their children act up, etc. ETA: If you have the opportunity to talk with a follower, have a heart to help them more than to prove how much smarter or nicer people are who don't follow the Pearls. Â Unfortunately, parents that follow hard after these teachers will often reject advice from unless that person appears to be especially successful in their eyes. ETA: Some of them (not all) have fallen into this way of thinking because they were never allowed to think for themselves. They were trained to spiritually submit and not allowed to question. The point isn't to just help someone get away from the Pearls, but also to encourage and help them think critically, so they can learn not to blindly follow some other teacher. Â Also realizing that abhorring the Pearls doesn't make me a perfect parent, and not holding myself up as a parenting god seems to help keep the door open for conversation with parents that are struggling under this twisted school of thought. Â We don't have much contact with people that follow that line of thinking but out of necessity, we do spend time with a couple that does. It is clear that they are never to perform that sort of "discipline" in our presence and we will walk out if it seems like it is going to happen at their home. I know of someone who was able to get through to an Ezzo or Pearl follower when she witnessed a her friend take her child aside for "discipline". A calm, loving, but very stern, "You know in your heart that what you are doing is wrong!" helped steer the woman into a different direction (back to what she originally knew to be correct). Â Bottom line is I don't have the answer on dealing with people that follow this, but this is my two cents and I'd love to hear differing ideas. Â Here is the link to the blog that has a link to the petition again. Edited October 3, 2011 by Clairelise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Signed and posted on facebook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perogi Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Does anyone else wonder why this family had never been reported? Particularly when the legal documents make it clear that other adults were aware of what was going on and aware of the extreme feelings of dislike that Carrie had for her adopted daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annandatje Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I went to the site with the petition and the petition also listed two other books by different authors that also recommend hitting babies under one year. I think I need the puking frownie(I don't think that would be a smilie). I had no idea that there were that many books like that out there. Â A number of authors, primarily identifying as conservative Christians, write parenting books that refer to children in disrespectful tone, calling them manipulators, selfish, and worse. Although they vary in the frequency and intensity of recommended physical punishment with Pearls being most extreme, some of the other authors are James Dobson, Roy Lessin, Tedd Tripp, Lisa Whelchel. Â I strongly disagree with punitive based parenting, but I cannot reach a personal comfort level with book burning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Would a GI Psych be a person who helps people with eating disorders? I would guess there is a big calling for that. Good luck.  Oh, I didn't think of that! Duh! That makes sense.  I'm sure you know this, but kids who have trauma have anniversary dates stored in their cells. <snip>Those have stopped. So maybe this is an anniversary of some sort of trauma the little guy experienced.  Maybe. Not really a way to find out unless one of the older kids disclosed. This little guy is 3Ă‚Â½ with developmental delays. But that definitely makes a little more sense. I mean, why all of the sudden.  But to make it tie in with the thread? My 16yr old says, "why do you have to take him today? He pukes all the time." He was disappointed that he would have to find a ride to the meeting (think church) and may not be able to such late notice. My son likes our kids. But we have fought this throwing up thing for months. Of course, my son *did* get it when I said the difference was the amount he was doing it in a shorter period of time.  So it wasn't just selfishness, just a matter of what we see with these children. And because of this, I can see how some of what the Williams kids may be understood similarly. If this girl sometimes fell down, said she was cold, carried on, etc then it is reasonable that *some* of what they thought they were seeing was more "pretending." What ideally would have happened would be that they realized that a 30 pound weight loss is a real issue (I mean, when had any of those children ever lost 30 pounds?), that 42 degrees really *is* cold (did they regularly spend time outside naked and NOT be cold?), etc. And ideally, they would have desperately sought help as we have for Munchkin. They should have been to as many psychologists and doctors as it took. They should have searched out every parenting book imaginable. They should have sought information online. Whatever it took should have been done to help this child.  What is recommended for pee/poo is to have the child do all the cleaning themselves.  Our standard response the last almost six months for this has been, in a very quiet voice, "if you can make it to the bathroom, please do. If not, please let me know you didn't so we can get you cleaned up." And I help them as reasonable. I just chose to act like it was a real accident each time though I really don't *want* to clean up 3-5yr olds who are perfectly capable of using the potty. The five year old told the psych during the psych eval that the accidents were on purpose and how I responded. The psych asked her if she was still going to do it and she replied maybe. At least she was honest, right? But basically, the older two calmed down quite a bit...well, except the boy has had several bus/school accidents recently.  You know...that goes back to the fact that maybe there is something about this time. I am having SO much night time trouble with the 4yr old. He's up 2-8 times per night! And now this with Munchkin. Maybe there is something about this time. I may look back at the history I have for them. Hmm...  Okay, sorry to ramble. I'm so desperate to figure things out for these kiddos. It's too bad Hanna's family didn't choose working to figure it out (assuming again that there was such issues). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Makes sense, but I just ............................... :crying: Â consider yourself lucky you haven't had experience with parents brainwashing their children. it happens all. the. time. It's ALL about the parent/grandparent and feeding their egos at the expense of children. (these parents consider children who are "perfectly" obedient and submissive as proof of their wonderful parenting skills".) despicable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Maybe. Not really a way to find out unless one of the older kids disclosed. This little guy is 3Ă‚Â½ with developmental delays. But that definitely makes a little more sense. I mean, why all of the sudden.  I missed that he was 3.5 Poor baby.  But to make it tie in with the thread? My 16yr old says, "why do you have to take him today? He pukes all the time." He was disappointed that he would have to find a ride to the meeting (think church) and may not be able to such late notice. My son likes our kids. But we have fought this throwing up thing for months. Of course, my son *did* get it when I said the difference was the amount he was doing it in a shorter period of time.  So it wasn't just selfishness, just a matter of what we see with these children. And because of this, I can see how some of what the Williams kids may be understood similarly. If this girl sometimes fell down, said she was cold, carried on, etc then it is reasonable that *some* of what they thought they were seeing was more "pretending." What ideally would have happened would be that they realized that a 30 pound weight loss is a real issue (I mean, when had any of those children ever lost 30 pounds?), that 42 degrees really *is* cold (did they regularly spend time outside naked and NOT be cold?), etc. And ideally, they would have desperately sought help as we have for Munchkin. They should have been to as many psychologists and doctors as it took. They should have searched out every parenting book imaginable. They should have sought information online. Whatever it took should have been done to help this child.  Being out in the freezing cold and losing 30 pounds can't be questioned. It was wrong, and it's ultimately what killed the poor kid. BUT, the falling down part - my dd has done this NUMEROUS times, on purpose, to get attention from others. She's even gone so far as to *really* hurt herself. She did this recently, but she got no reaction. The time before this, though, was about two years. Thankfully she's outgrown that./COLOR]   You know...that goes back to the fact that maybe there is something about this time. I am having SO much night time trouble with the 4yr old. He's up 2-8 times per night! And now this with Munchkin. Maybe there is something about this time. I may look back at the history I have for them. Hmm...  Okay, sorry to ramble. I'm so desperate to figure things out for these kiddos. It's too bad Hanna's family didn't choose working to figure it out (assuming again that there was such issues).  I'm really questioning the sudden increase in vomiting, the sudden waking at night......... Have you considered having them sleep in your room? I had dd8 in our room with us for years. She always had fears of the "chinese men coming to steal her at night," and she had severe night terrors. Maybe sleeping with them nearby will comfort them enough to allow them to sleep more. Take notice of this. It started in September. See if this happens again next year. If it does, what I learned to do was make my dd's world as small and peaceful as possible, focusing on quiet times together.:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleWMN Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I'm really questioning the sudden increase in vomiting, the sudden waking at night......... Have you considered having them sleep in your room? I had dd8 in our room with us for years. She always had fears of the "chinese men coming to steal her at night," and she had severe night terrors. Maybe sleeping with them nearby will comfort them enough to allow them to sleep more. Take notice of this. It started in September. See if this happens again next year. If it does, what I learned to do was make my dd's world as small and peaceful as possible, focusing on quiet times together.:grouphug: Â I'm encouraged to see this thread about a horrible tragedy turn into support from one mom to another. That's what it's all about. Good for you both for opening up about your struggles, being honest and real, and not just demanding perfect "behavior" to reflect on your parenting skills. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Interesting, but apparently a mother who was running a facebook page for the book has chosen to delete it: Â http://www.facebook.com/#!/permalink.php?story_fbid=10150395407076103&id=130609296102 Â The link's possibly only good for six more hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) Signed and posted on facebook. Â Me too. And I wrote a review on amazon. First time I have ever done that! Edited October 3, 2011 by Heather in NC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.