Another family using Pearl techniques...

[Denisemomof4]

Do you not think the Pearls should claim responsibility for advocating child abuse? Should they not answer for their disgusting, vile, and perverted advice about wives accepting their child-molesting husbands back into the home? How many children have to die or suffer horrific abuse before the Pearls are made to answer for their idiocy?

 

WHAT??!!! :svengo:

 

:leaving:

[momma2three]

They prey on scared, weak, lost parents of very young children, promising brilliant returns if you just follow their methods.

 

Yes, I believe that parents have the responsibility not to buy into their abusive, dangerous snake oil. But they also have a responsibility not to encourage people to abuse their children. And, as a society, we should try to protect abused children, even those whose parents think they're being "Godly." I think the Pearls should be in jail.

 

I look at my bright-eyed, happy, spirited kids, and yes sometimes I wish they would whine a little less and follow directions a little more promptly, but I can't even imagine trying to break their will. Their will is what makes them such delightful, amazing little human beings. And I have NEVER raised a hand to them, and they still manage to be very polite, well-behaved kids who I can take almost anywhere and who can happily amuse themselves (to an extent, LOL) and I get compliments on their behavior all the time.

 

DD1 (who is decidedly not a morning person...) was whining about breakfast this morning, and it was just after I had read this thread, and I realized that the Pearls would have me beating her for that. It absolutely broke my heart. Yes, it was annoying that I had gone to the effort of making waffles and she wanted pancakes, but being grateful for what she has is a life lesson that needs to be instilled through example and conversation, and will take as she grows older and becomes more aware of the world and becomes better able to reason. If I had beat her for that, she wouldn't have magically learned to be grateful and not to whine!

[Denisemomof4]

to those who think the pearls did NOT advocate starvation-

here's an excerpt

 

"A witness told investigators that the Williams got their ideas for the disciplinary measures from a book, "How to Train Up Your Child," which recommends switchings with a plumbing tool, cold water baths, withholding food and putting children out in cold weather as forms of punishment."

 

the Pearls should be in jail. The older children were being taught to promulagate the abuse.

 

all of the above is sickening. The part where the older kids spanked/abused the younger, made me physically ill. That, and the mother sending the KIDS to go look out on the poor dying girl. So sad, so SICK.

[unsinkable]

I don't think it was the kids buying into the parent's rationalizations. My RAD dd always pretends not to know how to do her school work, pretends to fall (for attention), pretends to be sick, sad, etc. She once cried over her phonics pages for an entire week and then completed them in 10 minutes so she could play with her friend. Things like that regularly happened. I can easily see that those kids probably did pretend not to know signing or other things. I also know RAD kids do purposely pee/poo their pants and make it seem like an accident. They purposefully try to push their parent's buttons in any way they can, especially the mothers. (purposefully touching the walls in the bathroom, knowing she has a contagious disease) They do steal and hoard food, even eating until they throw up. If the parents had read about that, maybe they would have been more kind with the food issue. They mad it worse. Many of these things my RAD dd does. She keeps me on my toes for sure, but I've learned that. I think this family probably never did any reading on their child's disorder so they didn't understand what was going on. They CLEARLY didn't read about therapeutic parenting to help their children, either. Those kids didn't stand a chance in that family.

 

The true problem with this and many adoptions we read about in the news is that families truly aren't prepared for the extreme behaviors a RAD child brings with them. If I had been prepared properly, I would have done things differently from day one. And I wouldn't have had to search for answers in all the wrong places, wasting precious years that needed to be dealt with differently to allow healing to take place. (I didn't hold/cuddle dd much because she hated touch so much she would cry. I would allow her to turn her back to me in my lap, because she was more comfortable that way - it was less threatening. Most importantly, I would have known that ALL needs needed to be met by mom ALONE. Instead my 3 kids and dh all helped with her. I made so many mistakes, not knowing they were mistakes.)

 

We have worked through so many of dd's issues, and she's so much better than she's ever been. But it was a TON of work, and not many people I know could have ever done it. Those parents clearly resented the work the physical challenges brought, so I think it's safe to assume they never read up on their kid's issues to try to help them. It's very difficult parenting traumatized RAD kids, but they certainly can be made worse by the abusive parenting these kids had to suffer through.

 

So sad.

 

I've never read a Pearl book and I never will. I think all those books should be taken off the shelves. I can't believe people still buy them.

 

You don't know that this poor dead girl had RAD.

 

Considering she DIED of hypothermia, I highly doubt she was pretending she was cold.

[Denisemomof4]

 

 

Additionally, though there are more connection-based methods becoming popular, the prevailing "wisdom" is to stay in control, disconnected, with strict consequences, etc. The belief is that attachment challenged children, traumatized children, hurt children are manipulative and "bad" rather than believing that they would do differently if they could and they can if they connect with others in love and are taught life skills. You have to decide whether you believe "love is not enough" or "love never fails."

 

Poor kids.

 

as a mom of a RAD kid, I can tell you for SURE that love is NEVER enough for these kids. That said, therapeutic parenting teaches one how to parent IN LOVE AT ALL TIMES while having very real boundaries, etc.

 

It's safe to assume from what the bio kids have shared, and what other's stated Carrie herself shared, that those kids never felt love in that family.

[Denisemomof4]

You don't know that this poor dead girl had RAD.

 

Considering she DIED of hypothermia, I highly doubt she was pretending she was cold.

 

no, I don't know that, but being adopted at an older age puts one at a very high risk of RAD.

 

I think that since there was a pattern of pretending, the others thought she was pretending to stammer around and clumsily fall. These kids can be very dramatic. But it was PURE STUPIDITY to have a child out in that degree, and it was raining no less. Even a moron can figure out one can die of hypothermia in those conditions.

 

I'm glad these two won't be able to parent anymore. If they get out of jail, all their kids will be older and gone.

[kalanamak]

Considering she DIED of hypothermia, I highly doubt she was pretending she was cold.

 

 

I don't think D/4 meant that. She meant that there can be only-at-home problems that stress families, but are not seen by outsiders. And also, perhaps, that there are psychological problems that make some children really not amenable to "will-breaking" or simply unable to comply.

 

I see parents biologically inclined to order raising a biological infant from the get go as a very different situation than a biologically different non-infant appearing from another culture, with who-knows-what influences imprinted in their immature brains.

[i.love.lucy]

Maybe the good that can come of all of this is more light shed on the Pearls, more understanding in certain circles to open your eyes to families that follow them, and most of all the removal of all the children from those parents. Maybe it's not too late for the rest of them.:(

[pdalley]

WHAT??!!! :svengo:

 

:leaving:

 

 

I think it is in 'Created to be His Help Meet' that they advise if mother discovers her husband is molesting her children that she should confront him and if he repents do nothing. If he does not, report him - visit him in jail and when he gets out go back to him.

 

Right, I'm going to take any advice from people who can rationalize subjecting yourself and your kids to that type of abuse. :glare:

 

I am horror stuck and nauseated at the thought of people who buy into the Pearls philosophy having an autistic kid. I would think it was doubtful they would realize the child was doing things because of the autism and not rebelling. Heck, these two 'winners' thought the boy was pretending to be deaf!!!!!

Edited October 1, 2011 by pdalley

[Denisemomof4]

I wish I hadn't read the affidavit. Evil. Just evil. I think the punishment should fit the crime - feed them table scraps and make them sleep out in the cold on a concrete slab.

 

That whipping instrument is straight out of the pages of the Pearls.

 

feed them COLD table scraps with FROZEN veggies on top, out in the cold.

 

How loving.:cursing:

[SonshineLearner]

Under even the way of looking as this just as "sleeping with another person" this is adultery. (never mind that it's evil in the biggest way!!!) I would probably not call the authorities, either... if I went through with just K*lling the evil one..

I can't imagine being married to someone that molested my child. (or any child) Nasty. :(

As far as sp*nking, I'm not against it. My son doesn't benefit from it, but some kids do, and at some points of his life... he did, too. BUT, I don't need a guy to tell me what to spank my child with... or when.

And.... adopted children often are the ones who don't need anything but love and support... and their parents need the same. (mostly meaning children with attachment problems... and such)

[kiana]

I think it is in 'Created to be His Help Meet' that they advise if mother discovers her husband is molesting her children that she should confront him and if he repents do nothing. If he does not, report him - visit him in jail and when he gets out go back to him.

 

Yep, it's something along the lines of 'Have him do 20 years or so in jail, visit him while he's there and then when he gets out your children will be grown and you can welcome him back home with open arms. God hates divorce.'

 

God might hate divorce, but any God who doesn't hate child molestation more than divorce isn't one I wish to worship.

[Denisemomof4]

according to the local media - 7 to 17. the kids are all in foster care and teh williams are trying to get them back. I hope they fail.

 

WAIT. The Williams aren't in JAIL??!!!!:svengo:

[unsinkable]

She weighed 78 pounds when she died. She had lost close to 30 pounds in 2 years. She was 5 feet tall.

 

I am more concerned about what those people did to her than what she did to them.

[Denisemomof4]

 

Can an adoptive parent relinquish their parental rights? I'm not judging the rightness or wrongness of that, but.....I would have greatly preferred them turning the kids back over to someone....the state, anyone rather than abuse them. :confused:

 

no, they can't.

[jenncslp]

no, they can't.

 

They can disrupt their adoptions, and find another adoptive placement. I've had two little ones come to live with me for a time because their adoptive parents wanted them out of their house right away.

 

I read the whole attachments and it just sickens me. :crying:

[LibraryLover]

no, I don't know that, but being adopted at an older age puts one at a very high risk of RAD.

 

I think that since there was a pattern of pretending, the others thought she was pretending to stammer around and clumsily fall. These kids can be very dramatic. But it was PURE STUPIDITY to have a child out in that degree, and it was raining no less. Even a moron can figure out one can die of hypothermia in those conditions.

 

I'm glad these two won't be able to parent anymore. If they get out of jail, all their kids will be older and gone.

 

 

I understand what you are saying. And I can

see how how hard you've worked by what you've shared here over the years.

 

That family is not like your family. Your child is alive and thriving as best she can because of the appropriate work your family has done, even as you suffer.

 

They are murderers. This murder seems to be influenced by evil people who advocate abusing children to the point of starvation, to whip babies until they no longer have the energy to cry.

 

This child also showed signs of malnutriition and infection, so the abuse was prolonged. It's hard to come away from this article thinking 'poor parents of RAD kid', although we do not even know the child was sufferring with RAD.

 

They beat this child. They starved her. They killed her.

 

You haven't killed your RAD kid even in your pain, and I can think of another mother here with a RAD child who hasn't committed any crimes. I see rational people trying to deal with unimaginable pain in a way that does not include abusing their child to the point of physical harm or death.

Edited October 2, 2011 by LibraryLover

[kalanamak]

WAIT. The Williams aren't in JAIL??!!!!:svengo:

 

Perhaps they made bail.

Legalistic things grind slow here (I don't know about other places). I don't know why it took them from May til now to charge them. I work for the state, and I am simply shocked at how slowly things go. So what if the state is broke and someone is occupying a $550/day bed, you can't get their paperwork shuffled ahead any faster. Weeks, WEEKS go by waiting for the paperwork.

[Denisemomof4]

So, according to what I read, it was months before the other children were removed after their sister's death? Did it just take that long for them to decide the parents were responsible? Do young teens sometimes opt to starve and freeze to death on their own accord? WTH?

 

I was wondering this as well.:confused:

[SKL]

The disclaimer about abuse and extremism misses the point. Yes, abuse is found in all socio-economic settings, all ethnicities, all sub-groups. However, their is a pattern of extremism of Pearl followers who have adopted children. They have a certain demograph, and it is pertinent.

 

I think the fact that they are adopted is significant due to the reality that adopted children have a greater risk of being abused (statistically). Adopted children have a constellation of issues that are more likely to present, and more likely to present parenting challenges; particularly in the toxic mix of religious, formulaic parenting in the hands of people motivated to adopt who are coming from compromised mental health to begin with. (Being attracted to punitive, formulaic parenting and extreme religiosity is a symptom of the same problem and provides the vehicle to abuse and death.)

 

I was probably unclear in my point(s). I was trying to point out that when someone does something horrible, it's because he had it in him to do something horrible. Regardless of what book he had lying around, what church he goes to, etc. I could read whatever book and take from it what makes sense to me, and throw out the rest. Blaming a book or writer distracts from the real issues - there are people who have abusive tendencies who are hurting children. Some are adopted, but I would venture to say that most are NOT - just because only 2.5% of American kids are adopted.

 

I do agree that kids who come into adoptive homes - especially past infancy - are at great risk for adjustment difficulties of many kinds. That is why I said that there should be more services for adoptive parents. Very few people go into parenting (bio or adoptive) prepared to deal smoothly with some of the issues these kids present. And yes, it's hard to talk about the issues openly, especially in a judgmental society that is just waiting to point out problems with adoption.

 

I think it's fine if parents go to churches or how-to books for help, but ideally they would make sure the person offering the help has a solid background in adoption issues. Also, adoptive parents would be wise to seek out a nonjudgmental group of other adoptive parents to exchange ideas and empathy. But obviously not everyone will - Pearls or no Pearls.

 

There was a thread going around about how we can prepare our kids for marriage. How about preparing them for parenting trials - including knowing when to hang out the white flag and ask for help? People need to have some kind of internal alarm that tells them "you've pushed that far enough, and it ain't working; you need to back off and figure out a different way." I've been at that point a few times. I guess some people don't have that internal alarm system.

[Denisemomof4]

Having certain religious beliefs doesn't help the matter; but obviously everyone who has those beliefs don't go so far so that isn't it altogether.

 

Regardless, it is fear.

 

I say this because:

 

1) behavior comes from a place of fear or a place of love. Hitting, cold showers, depriving meals, etc are not loving things to do. I have no doubt the majority of Pearl followers love their children, but they parent from a place of fear (fear of ****ation, fear of a kid being 30 and mooching off them, fear of choices/control/etc, fear of not being able to impart discipline, fear of what others think, etc).

 

2) I was this parent fearful of where the path would lead. I feared the behavior of a truly challenging toddler would translate badly for a young adult.

Thankfully, there was a limit to what I was willing to do TO my child and therefore I learned better FOR my child.

 

Honestly? though I wish I could have learned another way, I'm thankful for everything our experience afforded us, especially understanding about fear and anxiety, the child's and my own. That has translated well as we've taken in challenging children to foster and as we head into adoption of three children with attachment disorders (not RAD, I don't think). I learned better for all the children I am privileged to parent.

 

and THIS is the difference between you and I vs. the Williams.

 

I can see that much of what you speak of is due to Heather Forbes. She counseled me during my darkest hours with my dd. I adore her!!!

 

Like you, I not only sought help for myself and for dd, but I put in probably thousands of hours of research into this. It doesn't appear that the Williams even tried to help/understand their adopted kids.

[littleWMN]

I don't think Denise is justifying their behavior or saying, "look what she did to this family." I think she's explaining what it's like to live with a child with RAD. It's very complex and few people understand it and few are trained in it. Throw a child with attachment issues (very likely at her age) into a family with strict, rigid discipline measures and it's a recipe for disaster. The parents often don't pursue help because the child's behavior is brushed off. They act differently when others are around and truly do target the mother. Not a justification of what was done to her - at all - just the truth. It's very hard. We, as a culture, need to be more open about RAD and more supportive of adoptive families' struggles - even if you don't see it with your own eyes, it doesn't mean it's not there. People need to educate themselves before adopting. RAD can happen even in infants.

 

She was beautiful. I read the affidavit. Horrifying. :(

[Denisemomof4]

Yes, just as a biological parent can relinquish rights, an adoptive parent can. Theoretically, this couple could have taken this child to the local CPS office and turned her over. She would have been placed in foster care. Their beliefs about child-rearing unfortunately seem to have excluded that as an option.

 

this is not true. You will be charged with child abandonment. Or is it different in TX?

[Denisemomof4]

Thanks...but what about vetting them in the first place?

 

How do these people get thru that process?

 

Can you imagine them telling that they plan on using plumbing supply lines to discipline their adopted children?

 

I don't understand how they adopted either. My boys were interviewed behind closed doors for our adoption, and the social worker spent a lot of time asking what happens if the child is disciplined. If this happened with this family, I don't understand how the adoption still could have taken place unless the kids were totally coached.

[littleWMN]

this is not true. You will be charged with child abandonment. Or is it different in TX?

 

 

In my state, you can relinquish an adopted child or place them for adoption privately.

[LibraryLover]

I don't understand how they adopted either. My boys were interviewed behind closed doors for our adoption, and the social worker spent a lot of time asking what happens if the child is disciplined. If this happened with this family, I don't understand how the adoption still could have taken place unless the kids were totally coached.

 

 

Maybe they adopted because they felt 'called' by God to do so. Maybe they thought they could 'save' some unreached children and bring them to Jesus. I don't know. Maybe they thought their relgious teachings (Pearl-driven? That's not clear yet, I suppose) would be all the support they needed.

 

How any compassionate person could think whipping babies with switches or older children with pastic tubing is something Jesus would support is beyond my comprehension. But appaprently there are a great number of people who think this very thing.

Edited October 1, 2011 by LibraryLover

[LibraryLover]

In my state, you can relinquish an adopted child or place them for adoption privately.

 

 

Same in MA. Disrupted adoptions happen.

Edited October 1, 2011 by LibraryLover

[texasmama]

this is not true. You will be charged with child abandonment. Or is it different in TX?

 

A parent relinquishing a child could be charged with this or asked to pay child support or be faced with a variety of other legal issues. As you know, adoption is a legally binding agreement. However, for parents who feel the need to disrupt an adoption (and it happens not infrequently) or for parents of biological children who feel the need to relinquish their children, there are options which exist. The state will not force anyone to parent who chooses not to. Parents can and do at times take their kids to the local CPS office and drop them off or in other ways abandon them such that the children need to be placed in foster care.

 

When I was a CPS investigator back in the 1991, I worked a case in which a mother of 7 (and the oldest child, a teenager, had a baby of her own) left her kids in a women's shelter. The mom was an addict. I had to pick up the kids (with help from co workers because they didn't all fit in my car) and transport them to a family member who was willing to take them in. If the family member had not taken responsibility for the kids, they would have gone to foster care, probably split up in several different foster homes. As I held the hand of a one of the little girls (about 5 years old) on the way to my car as we left the women's shelter, she asked me if I would be her mother.

 

It is not uncommon for parents to relinquish out of control or difficult teens to foster care...or just relinquish kids/teens they don't want to parent. It is so common that there is a term for it in the CPS world - Refusal to Accept Parental Responsibility. Is it an easy solution without consequences? No. But the option exists, and I wish this family had exercised it.

[Ipsey]

Maybe they adopted because they felt 'called' by God to do so. Maybe they thought they could 'save' some unreached children and bring them to Jesus. I don't know. But it seems not an uncommon reason in some adoptions circles. Maybe they thought their relgious teachings (Pearl-driven? That's not clear yet, I suppose) would be all the support they needed.

 

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this. While many non-Christian people adopt, and plenty of Christians who adopt--there is also a troubling subsection of Christian people who adopt for "ministry" reasons. It's not simply about having a family, there's a certain amount of celebrity that goes along with adopting multiple children. A certain air of religious "magic" if you will. Anything outside of the norm can be attributed to a religious "calling" and create a certain feeling of "extra-special-to-God-ness" whether it's clothing one wears/doesn't wear, food one eats/doesn't eat, and, unfortunately--children one acquires.

 

I've seen it quite a big in the circles I used to run with.

[gardenmom5]

Maybe not, but I seem to remember reading some excerpt here about keeping a switch in every room in the house so punishment can be swift and sure.

 

I don't believe I can have a civil conversation with anyone who uses/defends/agrees with anything the Pearls advocate so I will close here, and wish you and your children well.

 

Peace,

astrid

:iagree:and reading about the "missing meals", and sending them outside in the cold for "time outs".

[Denisemomof4]

Not again... :(

 

This story is not new to me - I have read a woman's blog before who had 6 kids and adopted 2 and was not bonding with her 2 adopted kids. She said the most horrible things about them and said they had the devil in them. The adoptions were disrupted and her blog was shut down. I seriously expected to read the article and see this woman's name.

 

it's not the same woman because her adoptions weren't disrupted. Sadly.

[*Lulu*]

I just do not understand how they could have thought they were "helping" those poor children.

 

I think these parents are completely responsible and reprehensible. I also think the Pearls spread a special brand of evil that has sadly infected too many who profess faith in Christ.

[Denisemomof4]

She weighed 78 pounds when she died. She had lost close to 30 pounds in 2 years. She was 5 feet tall.

 

I am more concerned about what those people did to her than what she did to them.

 

don't get me wrong. I am too.

[Denisemomof4]

I understand what you are saying. And I can see how how hard you've worked by what you've shared here over the years.

 

That family is not like your family. Your child is alive and thriving as best she can because of the appropriate work your family has done, even as you suffer.

 

They are murderers. This murder seems to be influenced by evil people who advocate abusing children to the point of starvation, to whip babies until they no longer have the energy to cry.

 

This child also showed signs of malnutriition and infection, so the abuse was prolonged. It's hard to come away from this article thinking 'poor parents of RAD kid', although we do not even know the child was sufferring with RAD.

 

They beat this child. They starved her. They killed her.

 

You haven't killed your RAD kid even in your pain, and I can think of another mother here with a RAD child who hasn't committed any crimes. I see rational people trying to deal with unimaginable pain in a way that does not include abusing their child to the point of physical harm or death.

 

I agree 100%. I stated somewhere that the difference between me and other adoptive moms here, and the Williams, is that we have worked to UNDERSTAND our children, changed our parenting to HELP them.

 

Clearly the WIlliams aren't a family that ever should have adopted. They were exhausted from the lice and the contagious disease. AND they adopted a child who was deaf and mute. They likely didn't spend ANY time researching their kid's issues because they were too tired. Certainly if they did ANY reading on RAD or attachment disorder (not saying the girl had either) they would have known that the parenting they chose was making their child sicker and not better.

 

I hope I haven't come off as feeling sorry for the poor parents of a RAD kid. I do, however, wish ALL adoptive parents weren't so ill informed when faced with these severe behaviors. If the parents were TRULY educated on the issues, then they would know what they were dealing with and could get the proper help. And there isn't a lot of good help out there. That's what I was trying to say....... but I do NOT feel bad for those parents At All. I hope they never get the opportunity to parent ANY child Ever Again!

[Denisemomof4]

Perhaps they made bail.

Legalistic things grind slow here (I don't know about other places). I don't know why it took them from May til now to charge them. I work for the state, and I am simply shocked at how slowly things go. So what if the state is broke and someone is occupying a $550/day bed, you can't get their paperwork shuffled ahead any faster. Weeks, WEEKS go by waiting for the paperwork.

 

but we're talking about MURDER here!

 

 

wow. Eye opening for sure!

[gardenmom5]

I don't think it was the kids buying into the parent's rationalizations. I can easily see that those kids probably did pretend not to know signing or other things. .

 

wow - are you saying this girl was "pretending" to be cold when it was 40 degrees outside and they had taken away all her clothes? (and shoes, and socks) The other kids had been trained by their parents (whom they "blindly obeyed") to see her as "faking" it. To not do so would invite punishment to themselves.

 

Do you even KNOW what the weather is like here? It is a DAMP that goes clear to the bones. we had record LOW-HIGHS in May - when she died. There was NEW snow in the foothills in LATE MAY not far from where she lived. 40 degrees of damp has been known to FREEZE people that came here from colder, but DRY climates. (we have one friend from the intermountain west who has lived here 30 years, and still wears heavy sweaters under his coat becasue he is so cold, even though it's 50 degrees out).

[cin]

Homeschooling is mentioned in the affidavit from the Sherriff's Deputy.

 

Ok, I didn't read that far. *VERY* surprised that it wasn't mentioned in the article. Seriously, that is usually the FIRST THING mentioned!

[Denisemomof4]

I just do not understand how they could have thought they were "helping" those poor children.

 

I think these parents are completely responsible and reprehensible. I also think the Pearls spread a special brand of evil that has sadly infected too many who profess faith in Christ.

 

there is NO WAY they could have thought they were helping these children. I think they did all that they did simply because they were overwhelmed, they didn't LIKE these children, and they just wanted them out of sight and out of mind. Like in a closet or sleeping in a barn.:banghead:

[Jennifer3141]

wow - are you saying this girl was "pretending" to be cold when it was 40 degrees outside and they had taken away all her clothes? (and shoes, and socks) The other kids had been trained by their parents (whom they "blindly obeyed") to see her as "faking" it. To not do so would invite punishment to themselves.

 

Do you even KNOW what the weather is like here? It is a DAMP that goes clear to the bones. we had record LOW-HIGHS in May - when she died. There was NEW snow in the foothills in LATE MAY not far from where she lived. 40 degrees of damp has been known to FREEZE people that came here from colder, but DRY climates. (we have one friend from the intermountain west who has lived here 30 years, and still wears heavy sweaters under his coat becasue he is so cold, even though it's 50 degrees out).

 

Oh yuck to everything these kids went through. :(

[Denisemomof4]

wow - are you saying this girl was "pretending" to be cold when it was 40 degrees outside and they had taken away all her clothes? (and shoes, and socks) The other kids had been trained by their parents (whom they "blindly obeyed") to see her as "faking" it. To not do so would invite punishment to themselves.

 

Do you even KNOW what the weather is like here? It is a DAMP that goes clear to the bones. we had record LOW-HIGHS in May - when she died. There was NEW snow in the foothills in LATE MAY not far from where she lived. 40 degrees of damp has been known to FREEZE people that came here from colder, but DRY climates. (we have one friend from the intermountain west who has lived here 30 years, and still wears heavy sweaters under his coat becasue he is so cold, even though it's 50 degrees out).

 

No, no, no, no, no. What I was saying is that since there was a pattern of pretending, they probably thought she was doing it again. Just like if there's a habitual pattern of lying, you truly mistrust words spoken out of said liar's mouth.

 

But that the woman left her out in the rain in 40 degree weather - how could nobody have known what was going on? I still am absolutely SHOCKED that this woman isn't in jail!!!

 

ETA: My RAD dd used to pretend all the time. My kids weren't trained to see it as pretend, they also KNEW it was her pretending. I never told/taught them to see it as I wanted them to.

Edited October 1, 2011 by Denisemomof4

[Cricket]

Beyond the horrors, I got caught by the idea of carrying a switch around in your bra.

 

We have this strange reoccurring pattern of large hs families with chidlren adopted from Africa going Pearlwellian.. I think we are on the third family, aren't we?

 

That part is disturbing to me as well. It seems that it is adopted children who are targeted for the worst punishments. It is just so awful. And then to call it Christian is sickening. My brother and sil's children (from Haiti) finally had their adoption finalized the other day. To contrast, their son is 10 and he *gained* 30 lbs. the first year he was here and grew I don't know how many inches!

 

:crying:

[gardenmom5]

Maybe the good that can come of all of this is more light shed on the Pearls, more understanding in certain circles to open your eyes to families that follow them, and most of all the removal of all the children from those parents. Maybe it's not too late for the rest of them.:(

 

sadly, the eyes that need opening the most are the least likely to see. as one person said - the pearls and their followers see themselves as being persecuted as christians instead of being held acccountable as child abusers. (which, incidently, is 180 degrees against Christ's teachings)

 

absolutely sickening. (but I'm understanding my 'influential' grandmother more - and her parenting was a few generations ago. she frequently tried "do what I say or you'll be ###med". so the pearls didn't come up with anything particularly new in those circles. being the ornery sort that I am, I knew a Loving God wouldn't be that way and ignored grandmama. Those family members who listened to her rejected God, instead of putting the blame where it belonged.)

[Audrey]

Ok, I didn't read that far. *VERY* surprised that it wasn't mentioned in the article. Seriously, that is usually the FIRST THING mentioned!

 

 

True. They usually love to jump on that, don't they? FWIW, I couldn't read the whole affidavit. It is too sad, too horrific, and reading it through won't tell me anything other than the same outcome.

[kalanamak]

but we're talking about MURDER here!

 

Ah, but they had to decide it was murder.

[gardenmom5]

WAIT. The Williams aren't in JAIL??!!!!:svengo:

 

they are in the skagit county jail on $500K bail each for homocide by abuse and first degree assault (in the case of the little boy). CPS got the judge to pull the kids from the home and they are in foster care. But they want their kids back and are pursing it . . . Let CPS do its job correctly for once and keep those kids the heck away from those people.

[kalanamak]

True. They usually love to jump on that, don't they? FWIW, I couldn't read the whole affidavit. It is too sad, too horrific, and reading it through won't tell me anything other than the same outcome.

 

There was a hs mom this year who shot and killed her husband, her teen, her dogs and cats and then herself. It was mentioned that the kid was hs, and that no one in the school district knew him, but it certainly wasn't dwelt on. Overall, I find this state has positive opinions of hs.

[gardenmom5]

No, no, no, no, no. What I was saying is that since there was a pattern of pretending, they probably thought she was doing it again. Just like if there's a habitual pattern of lying, you truly mistrust words spoken out of said liar's mouth.

.

 

we don't know there was a pattern of pretending with these children - only that these monsters claim it. The fact even the children testified carrie didnt' like the adopted kids implies she only saw what she wanted to see, and she would have been predisposed to only seeing negatives - she would see "pretending" when they were experiencing real distress because she didn't want to deal with it. anything she didn't like was "pretending" and "rebellious" requiring "discipline", (or in her book, physical abuse). Honeslty, I can't consider anything the bio-kids say about the williams as credible becasue they've been beaten into submission themselves. for them to see the williams clearly would require an intact self-will to think independently and objectively. That's one thing the pearls vision of child-rearing disallows.

 

I'm sure they'd claim my aspie/spd is "pretending" things - when it is how his neurology is wired.

 

they are currently in jail on $500K bond each.

[Pamela H in Texas]

wow - are you saying this girl was "pretending" to be cold when it was 40 degrees outside and they had taken away all her clothes? (and shoes, and socks)

 

No. But it is *easy* to think a child is lying when they do so so often.

 

Today, I have a little guy who was taking forever at the breakfast table (like ate 1/8 of his food by the time the other three littles finished). He started whining when his sibling got up. Then he threw up. Later, he had a BM in his pants. At another time, he claimed to be cold though it most certainly isn't cold in this house (and he won't stay under the covers). When sent to the table for lunch, he immediately started whining and said he didn't feel well.

 

Now, the great majority of you would figure my child is ill. That seems like a pretty reasonable guess, doesn't it? Would it change if I told you that he throws up any time he doesn't want to eat, when one of his siblings gets in trouble at the table? Would it change if I told you he threatened it the other day when Daddy and his sister went to an event at the school so weren't home for supper? Would it change if I told you that all of them mess their pants when things aren't "right" such as the time one brother had to leave school early so wasn't on the bus with the other brother? Or when sister didn't want to play outside? Would it change if you knew I don't crank the air down for myself (hot flashes) because my little guy is below the growth chart for weight and can't handle the air conditioner on? And the questions could continue.

 

The difference between me and the Williams'? Hubby and I decided to love on kiddo today. Hubby gave him a shower to clean him up after his mess. We have his pillow and the blanket grandma made him set up on the couch. We even turned the tv on (we average less than 30 minutes per day on the tv usually). And though he will miss the adoption party my friends are holding this evening because he *might* be sick, that means he'll get Daddy to himself which may be just what he needs. So the child is getting more love, attention, etc as well as some consequence. What would the Williams' do? A cold shower? Outside with few/no clothes? Little food/water? disgust and anger?

 

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that when a child does the same thing ALL the time, it is near impossible to figure out what is real and what is not. And we are always judged for it. For example, what do you think the nurse thinks when I'm buying time to look at the clock and figure out what is going on in the classroom, asking questions, etc when she calls me about him throwing up?

 

I do think these children were indoctrinated in the teaching of their parents (though it was nice to see one didn't buy into it completely). But it makes absolute sense to me that they knew the issue of attachment disorder behaviors also.

 

ETA: I completely understand that we have no real evidence this child had an attachment disorder. However, she was in a very high risk category for one. Additionally, generally adoptive parents *want* to love and enjoy their children. It is not likely she went into things hating her. It is more likely that the child had some challenging behaviors which made it difficult to love her. Unfortunately, instead of doing like Denise, spending hours upon hours trying to figure out how to reach her, they gave into some awful teachings, desperate for something to work. Thing is that where typical children may respond, it is less likely an adoptive child with attachment disorder would even TRY to respond positively. I do think it is likely the child had some challenging behaviors at very least.

Edited October 1, 2011 by 2J5M9K

[*********]

I really don't have anything to add. I just don't want my silence on the matter to be thought of as endorsement.

 

I'm with Chucki.

[Lisa R.]

No. But it is *easy* to think a child is lying when they do so so often.

 

Today, I have a little guy who was taking forever at the breakfast table (like ate 1/8 of his food by the time the other three littles finished). He started whining when his sibling got up. Then he threw up. Later, he had a BM in his pants. At another time, he claimed to be cold though it most certainly isn't cold in this house (and he won't stay under the covers). When sent to the table for lunch, he immediately started whining and said he didn't feel well.

 

Now, the great majority of you would figure my child is ill. That seems like a pretty reasonable guess, doesn't it? Would it change if I told you that he throws up any time he doesn't want to eat, when one of his siblings gets in trouble at the table? Would it change if I told you he threatened it the other day when Daddy and his sister went to an event at the school so weren't home for supper? Would it change if I told you that all of them mess their pants when things aren't "right" such as the time one brother had to leave school early so wasn't on the bus with the other brother? Or when sister didn't want to play outside? Would it change if you knew I don't crank the air down for myself (hot flashes) because my little guy is below the growth chart for weight and can't handle the air conditioner on? And the questions could continue.

 

The difference between me and the Williams'? Hubby and I decided to love on kiddo today. Hubby gave him a shower to clean him up after his mess. We have his pillow and the blanket grandma made him set up on the couch. We even turned the tv on (we average less than 30 minutes per day on the tv usually). And though he will miss the adoption party my friends are holding this evening because he *might* be sick, that means he'll get Daddy to himself which may be just what he needs. So the child is getting more love, attention, etc as well as some consequence. What would the Williams' do? A cold shower? Outside with few/no clothes? Little food/water? disgust and anger?

 

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that when a child does the same thing ALL the time, it is near impossible to figure out what is real and what is not. And we are always judged for it. For example, what do you think the nurse thinks when I'm buying time to look at the clock and figure out what is going on in the classroom, asking questions, etc when she calls me about him throwing up?

 

I do think these children were indoctrinated in the teaching of their parents (though it was nice to see one didn't buy into it completely). But it makes absolute sense to me that they knew the issue of attachment disorder behaviors also.

 

If only there were more foster/adoptive families like yours...

 

Thank you for all you do.