Another family using Pearl techniques...

[Pamela H in Texas]

My heart aches for any child being raised in a home using such methods. How does one even get to the point where they would think any of that is ok?

 

Fear.

 

Fear of eternal ****ation for their children so willing to do anything to save them.

 

Fear.

 

Fear of "what children with attachment disorder are capable of."

 

Fear.

 

Fear that they cannot communicate and their children can't learn effectively without extreme punitive measures and pain.

 

Fear.

 

Different people have different fears but they almost always express SOME fear. Disciplining with fear as the motivator can be very very very dangerous. At some point, love and common sense have to keep the behaviors of fear in check. Sometimes love is absent. Other times, the fear is just too great.

Edited October 1, 2011 by 2J5M9K

[pfamilygal]

I wrote about the Pearls' teachings on my blog and lost friends over it.

 

There are tidbits of wisdom in their books, but the poison makes them unpalatable. There are plenty of other wise parenting books that don't advocate an adversarial relationship with your kids.

 

And their website tells wives that they must stay with abusive husbands and husbands who molest their kids. SICK!!!

[Audrey]

 

 

 

Good point. If they did homeschool one would think it would have been mentioned. If they didn't, then did NOBODY notice the disappearance of this child from 'the system'? Pathetic.

 

 

Homeschooling is mentioned in the affidavit from the Sherriff's Deputy.

[MamaJo]

Ugh. I just don't get how someone does this.

[mom2denj]

So so sad! I am sick to my stomach! That baby girl would have been better off in Ethiopia. The Pearls need to be stopped and their books need to be burned. They may not have told them specifically to starve and put her out in the freezing cold, but they are encouraging abusive people and in a way giving them (in their minds) justification for the abuse.:angry: :(

[Audrey]

This is a horror beyond anything I've ever read.

 

And still, a tiny part of me wonders with an icy chill whether Carri is now, or ever has been, here in our midst on this or other homeschooling boards we frequent.

 

astrid

 

 

Way to give me the heebie-jeebies there, Astrid.

[mom2denj]

Way to give me the heebie-jeebies there, Astrid.

:iagree:

[FairyMom]

Way to give me the heebie-jeebies there, Astrid.

 

:iagree:

[pdalley]

I wish I hadn't read the affidavit. Evil. Just evil. I think the punishment should fit the crime - feed them table scraps and make them sleep out in the cold on a concrete slab.

 

That whipping instrument is straight out of the pages of the Pearls.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

The Pearls are filth. Plain and simple.

 

And I may get flamed for saying it, but those who defend or minimize the actions of the Pearls are not much better.

[sparrow]

I read through the whole, horrifying affidavit. It positively broke my heart. Those poor children.

 

After all these years of knowing about the Pearls, and disagreeing with their practices that I'd heard of, I had never actually looked at their website. I just did. I am beyond disgusted. I am so sad for the families that have been victimized. How can someone encourage women to stay in an abusive home???

[twoxcell]

I read through the whole, horrifying affidavit. It positively broke my heart. Those poor children.

 

 

It was horrible wasn't it.:crying::angry:

[Carpe]

Way to give me the heebie-jeebies there, Astrid.

 

:iagree:

 

I have to stop reading these threads. It's so sad. That poor girl.

 

I'm going to go wake my kids for cuddles.

[texasmama]

How horribly sad and ironic to escape Ethiopia by being adopted by Americans and then starve to death.:(

[gardenmom5]

For cases like this, I hope there is a rotting, stinking hell and these people and the Pearls and all their minions go there for the punishment they deserve.

 

There is nothing more that I can post here that won't get me flamed by Pearl fans and likely banned permanently.

 

count on it. even in the New Testiment - which these abusers *claim* to believe - Jesus said of those who harm children - it were better a milstone were hanged about their head and they were drowned in the depths of the sea.

[linguistmama]

count on it. even in the New Testiment - which these abusers *claim* to believe - Jesus said of those who harm children - it were better a milstone were hanged about their head and they were drowned in the depths of the sea.

 

Yep! I feel bad, and rightly so, when I yell at my kids. I can't imagine getting to the point that these parents did.

[gardenmom5]

That is so sad :( That poor girl.

 

I also feel sorry for her siblings, who were raised to believe that it's okay to treat a child like this. I hope that they can un-learn that in foster care.

 

I was reading about the case in the local media. the other children weren't just taught it was okay, they were directly taught to do it themselves. it's beyond sick and twisted.

[gardenmom5]

How old are the other kids?

according to the local media - 7 to 17. the kids are all in foster care and teh williams are trying to get them back. I hope they fail.

[obsidian]

:crying::crying: So heartbreaking.

 

For those of you who wish to read what the Pearls have written, but refuse to buy their books, To Train Up a Child is available for free here and the articles on their website reveal a lot about their views.

[obsidian]

I was reading about the case in the local media. the other children weren't just taught it was okay, they were directly taught to do it themselves. it's beyond sick and twisted.

 

The probable cause PDF said that the older children would discipline (switch) Hanna.:sad:

[Little Nyssa]

This is so awful. These people actually live near us- I was just in their town a few days ago. Like Astrid I am creeped out by the thought that I may actually have seen them at a park day or county homeschoolers' meeting. :confused::(

[seraphina]

:crying::crying: So heartbreaking.

 

For those of you who wish to read what the Pearls have written, but refuse to buy their books, To Train Up a Child is available for free here and the articles on their website reveal a lot about their views.

 

 

Ugh...I have dogs that need to be trained. But I have children that need to be loved and taught but not in a million years will I ever see the need to train a child.

 

Yeah I read the first few paragraphs, that is as far as I have ever been able to get in the Pearl's books. The thought of children growing up being treated like that just makes my soul weep.

[Heather in Neverland]

I think the parents should beaten, starved, and left to die of hypothermia.

 

Whether or not the Pearls get prosecuted in this life is up for grabs but I take a small measure of comfort in knowing that they WILL ANSWER TO GOD and I hope I am standing right there and I get to watch.

 

That wasn't very christian-like for me to say, was it? :glare:

[obsidian]

Ugh...I have dogs that need to be trained. But I have children that need to be loved and taught but not in a million years will I ever see the need to train a child.

I would never even train an animal with the techniques the Pearls suggest using on children.

 

The thought of children growing up being treated like that just makes my soul weep.

I agree; it is so sad.:sad: The Pearls are sick, twisted people.

Edited October 1, 2011 by STEM

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I think the parents should beaten, starved, and left to die of hypothermia.

 

Whether or not the Pearls get prosecuted in this life is up for grabs but I take a small measure of comfort in knowing that they WILL ANSWER TO GOD and I hope I am standing right there and I get to watch.

 

That wasn't very christian-like for me to say, was it? :glare:

 

 

An eye for an eye, perhaps. I do not judge you for what you said.

 

I may get horribly flamed for this, but Carrie seemed to be overwhelmed by the adoptions. (I'm NOT justifying her behaviour AT ALL!!!)

 

Can an adoptive parent relinquish their parental rights? I'm not judging the rightness or wrongness of that, but.....I would have greatly preferred them turning the kids back over to someone....the state, anyone rather than abuse them. :confused:

[simka2]

:crying::crying::cursing::cursing::banghead: There are no words for how I am feeling about the Pearls right now.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I don't know about international adoption, but surely they could have asked for help had they been humble enough to do so.

 

With foster-adopt, no, you cannot just relinquish your rights. If you go to CPS three years after adopting to relinquish, they will charge you with abandonment to take your kids. It is very clear upfront that if you finalize, you are committing to the children. However, abandonment would have been better than death! An abandonment charge would have been better than a murder charge.

 

Now, that doesn't mean you can't get help though. There are all sorts of resources available. You simply have to choose to find them. The problem is that you may need to really work to find good choices. For example, do you follow the beliefs of Nancy Thomas (Love is not Enough) or Heather Forbes (Love Never Fails). Do you try to break the child or connect with the child? Do you believe they are manipulative and don't want to attach? Or do you believe a child will do better when they CAN do better? Do you believe they need motivation or skills?

 

It can be hard to weed through what is out there.

 

The other thing is that people really seem to think it won't happen to them. Even if they are aware their child has trauma, attachment issues, etc, they seem to hide their heads until they cannot any longer.

 

BTW, a friend contacted the state because she was having SO much trouble with one of her adopted daughters. The state kept saying Mom was fine and just stay the course that the child would come along. It has been really hard on the family. It *may* be that the family needs to learn some attachment and discipline skills, but they really should have been taken seriously when they felt the need to contact the authorities! Maybe there was some training or therapy or something that could have been given or at least they could have been told about.

Edited October 1, 2011 by 2J5M9K
trying to revive a kitten

[PhotoGal]

This is SO SO sad. :crying: Those poor kids!

[amey311]

I really can't read this whole thread because I'll want to vomit, so apologies if this has been posted already.

 

This article talks about the other children they have: http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Sedro-Woolley-couple-charged-with-child-death-2196403.php

 

Also, I am going to be completely flippant (because really - I can't deal with the idea of starving a 13 year old girl to death. I just can't), and point out that the Pearls are against adopting children that are older than any of your other children. And their reasons are upsetting: http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/general-view/archive/2010/august/09/avoiding-vacuums/ - about half way down the page, you can read Michael's opinion on adoption:

 

Never adopt children even close to the age of your own. You should be past child bearing age, and your children should be at least 10 to 15 years older than the adopted kids. I don’t think there is any such thing as an orphanage raised child who has not been a participant in sexual perversion.

[justasque]

From TTUAC: Never expect more of your children in the way of attitude than you are yourself. Happy, well balanced parents who neglect the rod and reproof will have grouchy, complaining, tantrum-oriented children.

From RAW, a sibling of the victim (HGW): When asked whv HGW had to eat outside RAW stated "my mom said we don't want to look it her grumpy face."

 

You can see how this could spiral downward quickly, if the mom thought that a "grumpy" child was an indication that she was neglecting the rod and as such was being a bad parent.

[GWOB]

I live in a fairly conservative area. Our homeschool group consists of mostly conservative Christians. I am a bit on the other end.;)

 

So I was at hs choir practice. The choir director invited a couple of moms from the EVEN MORE CONSERVATIVE hs group. While our older kids were practicing, the littles (3-5yo) practiced with parental supervision. One mom brought a Pearl book to share with another mom. I almost had an aneuryism. I had to leave the room with my kid. I just could not be in the same room as this book, much less someone who had read it and thought others would benefit from it.

 

I kinda felt like a snob. Then I remembered stories like this. Then I remembered all the beatings I experienced as a child "in the name of God". The Pearls are pure, sadistic evil. I have absolutely no respect for anyone who follows anything those trashy people have to say. Child abusers are evil. There is nothing good about them. There is nothing good about people who abuse children or condone child abuse. Nothing.

 

*written by a child abuse survivor.

[littleWMN]

I really can't read this whole thread because I'll want to vomit, so apologies if this has been posted already.

 

This article talks about the other children they have: http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Sedro-Woolley-couple-charged-with-child-death-2196403.php

 

Also, I am going to be completely flippant (because really - I can't deal with the idea of starving a 13 year old girl to death. I just can't), and point out that the Pearls are against adopting children that are older than any of your other children. And their reasons are upsetting: http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/general-view/archive/2010/august/09/avoiding-vacuums/ - about half way down the page, you can read Michael's opinion on adoption:

 

His opinion on adopting older children than the children you already have is pretty commonly held.

 

This is tragic. :(

[kalanamak]

the Pearls are against adopting children that are older than any of your other children. And their reasons are upsetting:

 

It is ick upon ick.

[amey311]

I've heard that idea (the children you adopt should be younger than the children you already have). It's the idea that ALL children up for adoption have been abused and will be abusers is really upsetting.

 

In another article, when a mother writes in that her 10 year old adopted son has molested her 3 year old biological daughter his advice is turn the boy over to the police or ship him back.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I think it is wise to be careful about the children one chooses to adopt. However, a few things:

 

1) an adopted child is "your own." Not surprising MP would state it that way though.

2) I don't know about international adoption, but it is true that the majority of foster children have been exposed to sexual information they were not ready to handle and/or sexually abused.

3) It is also true that a HUGE percentage of people in this country have been victimized sexually (1 in 3 at this time)

4) It is *very* rare that a sexual abuse victim turns into a perpetrator.

 

We need to be careful not to have consequences for victims. One can take precautions in a number of ways from child choice to in-home proactive solutions; but never should a child be judged harshly or feared because they were victimized.

 

I guess the Williams' didn't need to worry about that though since they locked the poor child up.

[kalanamak]

His opinion on adopting older children than the children you already have is pretty commonly held.

 

 

Waiting until all your children are grown and you are post-menopausal because the adoptee has been molested is not the same as the idea of simply adopting a younger child.

[Abigail4476]

I'm pretty sure the Pearls didn't say to starve children and leave them outside in the cold. Their teachings and methods are off for sure but not that far of from what I have seen anyways.:confused: So sad and sick.:crying:

 

I haven't read their book[s?], but according to the affidavit, the Pearl's did recommend such methods:

 

"...Other forms of discipline taught in this book include cold water bathes to assist in toilet training or putting the children

outside in the cold weather, having them miss meals and sleeping on the floor or outside as forms of punishment."

[amey311]

I think it is wise to be careful about the children one chooses to adopt. However, a few things:

 

 

 

I am a little wobbly tonight after a long week, so I'm not sure if we're on the same page, and I'm going to just state it plainly.

 

I think Michael and Debi Pearl are sadistic wackjobs. Yep. Name calling and everything. I'm okay if it gets me suspended.

 

I didn't want anyone to think I was posting that other information as a way to say "see, these people aren't real Pearl follower. if only they'd trusted Debi and Mike to steer them correctly, this wouldn't've happened!" Nope. I'm am definitely Anti-Pearls.

[littleWMN]

Waiting until all your children are grown and you are post-menopausal because the adoptee has been molested is not the same as the idea of simply adopting a younger child.

 

That's true, and I didn't catch all that until reading his article. Yeh, don't agree with that. My two adopted children are right smack in the middle of my other kids.

 

It IS something to be mindful of though when they have been molested. It's sick to think all that have been molested will molest (that thought sickens me because *I* was molested). BUT... some do. I've seen in happen in multiple friends who've adopted kids (that have some issues, obviously) that were older than their other children. Very sad.

 

But the issue at hand is horrific.

[swellmomma]

I read that article earlier this evening. So so upsetting to read how they treated that girl.

[twoxcell]

I haven't read their book[s?], but according to the affidavit, the Pearl's did recommend such methods:

 

"...Other forms of discipline taught in this book include cold water bathes to assist in toilet training or putting the children

outside in the cold weather, having them miss meals and sleeping on the floor or outside as forms of punishment."

I read that after I posted. So sad and sick. It is still the parents who are ultimately responsible for their actions though. I have not read the Pearl's book either I was just going from what I have read online.

[AngelBee]

How horribly sad and ironic to escape Ethiopia by being adopted by Americans and then starve to death.:(

 

This is the worst part to me. :(

[staceyobu]

So, according to what I read, it was months before the other children were removed after their sister's death? Did it just take that long for them to decide the parents were responsible? Do young teens sometimes opt to starve and freeze to death on their own accord? WTH?

[joannqn]

Wow. I read the whole probable evidence document. They are horrid people.

[Nakia]

Where's the puking smilie?

[Free]

Wow. I read the whole probable evidence document. They are horrid people.

Yes. Truly sickening. But makes me wonder why they felt the need to adopt not one, but two children with pre-existing conditions. Especially when they showed not an iota of understanding or compassion towards these kids.

[KristinaBreece]

This is a horror beyond anything I've ever read.

 

And still, a tiny part of me wonders with an icy chill whether Carri is now, or ever has been, here in our midst on this or other homeschooling boards we frequent.

 

astrid

 

I wondered the same thing. Ick.

 

Ugh...I have dogs that need to be trained. But I have children that need to be loved and taught but not in a million years will I ever see the need to train a child.

 

Yeah I read the first few paragraphs, that is as far as I have ever been able to get in the Pearl's books. The thought of children growing up being treated like that just makes my soul weep.

 

I got as far as "no more raised voices, no contention, no bad attitudes, fewer spankings, a cheerful atmosphere in the home, and total obedience from your children." It sounds ideal, but I have kids... not robots. I don't want my children to be so afraid of me that they turn into subservient automatons who obey my every whim out of fear of the wrath of Mom rather than think for themselves. I also wonder how having kids who are that afraid of you could ever promote a true atmosphere of cheer?

[awisha.]

This was in the probable cause link...

 

 

"In the beginning, HGW woulduse the bathroom under her parents monitoring, watching her go and making sure she would not touch anything prior to washing her hands. One of the kids stated that after her mother scolded her about touching the door, she told HGW to go in and wash her hands. HGW went to wash her hands and had to touch the door knob to get into the bathroom. By touching the door knob, she was being rebellious and disciplined her for it. HGW had begun her menstrual cycle and had left a drop of blood on the toilet seat,

therefore banishing her to the port a potty and made to sleep in the barn. After that, she was made to wear a pad of some type in her underwear so that her mother could check it daily to keep track of her cycle."

 

 

 

 

My heart was breaking while reading that. NO 13 year old girl has to put up with that sort of barbaric treatment.

 

And there was this too...

 

"The children were asked if they liked HGW. They said no, but they loved her because she was their sister. The children said that nobody in the family liked HGW and they didn't see or talk to her much anyway because she was always in the closet.

The children indicated no, when they were asked if Carri Williams liked HGW. When asked how they knew that, the children indicated that their mother has said it many times that she didn't like her and didn't want to see her grumpy face but loved her because God made her and she was her daughter."

 

At least the poor girl is in a better place now. And I feel so sorry for the other children too. What a heartless b i t c h of a mother and the father, well :glare:.

 

Edited October 1, 2011 by awisha
fixed formatting

[momma2three]

Ugh...I have dogs that need to be trained. But I have children that need to be loved and taught but not in a million years will I ever see the need to train a child.

 

Yeah I read the first few paragraphs, that is as far as I have ever been able to get in the Pearl's books. The thought of children growing up being treated like that just makes my soul weep.

 

If you treated a dog the way that the Pearls tell you to treat a child, you would have to put the dog down, because you would have a vicious detached animal who only knew fear.

[Trish]

How is it that the Pearls still have fans?