Vote without debate? Is it possible?! LOL

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I know this is one of those questions that turns heated, but I think we can handle it!

 

Flu shot. We have had the flu shot one year, and that was the year ds got H1N1 and was sick for weeks (I know this is just likely coincidence). This will be discussed with his Dr and not decided based on an online poll from people I don't know (even if they are wonderful!).

 

Ds has asthma so getting the flu could be very serious for him. Also because of his asthma, none of us can get the nose spray vaccine, it has to be the shot.

 

This is their first winter not in regular public school, so their chances of getting sick are lower.

 

Dd usually has some very mild reactions to shots, so I was considering getting myself and ds vaccinated.

 

What do you think?

[iamrachelle]

I may be inviting the wrath of the hive :D, but as a nurse I think that if you venture out in public at all (you go to the grocery store, right?) that a flu shot is warranted. I've seen people of every age die of complications of the flu. You may still "get the flu" or feel yucky for a couple of days after the shot but I promise it won't be nearly as severe as it would have been had you not received the immunization.

 

For what it's worth I actually got the flu one year even though I had had the shot and was hospitalized for several days. Our doctor said several times that I probably would have been in the unit (ICU) on a ventilator had I not gotten it.

 

We all get it every year (the shot... not the illness), without fail.

[twoxcell]

I voted no, but none of us have ever gotten a flu shot. None of my kids have asthma though.

[Mrs Mungo]

My son has copd, and we get flu shots.

[ktgrok]

I voted no, because although I think most vaccines are very effective I doubt the usefulness of the flu shot. The studies on it are really bad. Several show the death rate lowering dramatically, but include things like people being less likely to die in car accidents, lol. I don't think you can say that the flu shot is effective at preventing car accidents! I would do some research. I looked into it a LOT last year, and ended up just taking elderberry syrup daily. It has a much better track record for preventing/limiting viral illness. Check out pubmed to find studies on elderberry.

[swimmermom3]

Yes. I don't play with asthma and the flu. There are few things that terrify me more than nearly strangling while trying to breath, except watching my kids do the same.

[Parrothead]

Nope. We don't get it. Since we are pretty house bound in the winter I don't bother. I might reconsider if we were among people every day.

[praisefor3]

The first year we homeschooled we did not get the flu shot because I thought our chances were much less. I forgot about the boy who lives down the street who goes to public school and came and played. We all got it from him. DH had gotten the shot at work and he was the only one who had a very mild case. I was pretty convinced because the rest of us were soooo sick. Our youngest was cultured and it was Type A. The next year we all got the flu shot and we didn't get the flu. However, for the last three years or so I admit we have taken our chances and none of us has had the flu. If we had any risk factors at all I think I would make sure we got it. This year will be a toss up because 83 year old grandmother lives with us now and I'd hate for us to expose her at her age. Still don't know what we will do though.

[ktgrok]

Also, a couple of years ago there were several new stories that covered studies showing that the flu vaccine did NOT protect children 5 and younger from the flu, once other factors were accounted for. It just doesn't work. I wish it did, I hate the flu. (the nasal version works better, but not great. And it has side effects similar to a mild case of flu, so I don't get that either.)

 

Not anti vaccine (my kids are selectively vaccinated...daughter had a DTaP vaccine yesterday), but anti flu vaccine.

[ktgrok]

Also, a couple of years ago there were several new stories that covered studies showing that the flu vaccine did NOT protect children 5 and younger from the flu, once other factors were accounted for. It just doesn't work. I wish it did, I hate the flu. (the nasal version works better, but not great. And it has side effects similar to a mild case of flu, so I don't get that either.)

 

Not anti vaccine (my kids are selectively vaccinated...daughter had a DTaP vaccine yesterday), but anti flu vaccine.

[ktgrok]

Here is a link to an article about it: http://www.naturalnews.com/030744_flu_vaccines_fraud.html

 

and a quote: The July 2010 Cochrane Database Review of 50 studies of flu vaccine use in healthy adults showed once again that these vaccines are not effective for those adults (Jefferson 2010). This confirms a previous review from 2007. That review looked at 274 studies. Both these reviews revealed that flu vaccine had no effect on complications such as pneumonia or on hospital admissions. And flu vaccine reduced the symptoms of illness by only a modest one percent.

[Ipsey]

I saw the healthy 7-year-old son of a friend die of the flu 8 years ago.

My family always gets flu shots.

I'd have to vote "get the shot"

[Liz CA]

Voted "no."

Unless I have a compelling reason, I prefer to strengthen the immune system rather than get flu shots. My doc is worried about the medium in which the serum is stored.

[laundrycrisis]

I do not believe that flu shots work, so we do not get them. However, if I was going to have the kids get them, I would do them as early as possible. Vaccines can suppress natural immunity for a while (most doctors do not believe this but holistic doctors do and I do as well, from personal experience). I would want to get through that period before the season really got started.

[swellmomma]

This year I am getting it. Not the kids though. In the past we only ever got it when I had a new baby home as 3/4 were preemies, so we would all get it. This year I am getting it because I was diagnosed with asthma last year. It is exercise and virus induced so i do not want to risk catching the flu virus. The kids will not be getting it because I do not think it is necessary for them to get it. If they get the flu we will deal with it, but the risks to them vs me with asthma is a lot less.

[zookeeper]

No, we don't get it. I also am unsure of it's effectiveness. The studies haven't convinced me that it helps all that much. All but one of us (me!) got the flu about 3 years ago. It definitely was the flu. The baby was tested. While it wasn't *fun*, it also wasn't scary. We do things to strengthen our immune system while we're not sick and I think that helps to make illnesses less severe.

[TxMama]

If my child had asthma, I would vaccinate for the flu. I would also vaccinate earlier rather than later in the season.

 

 

I don't think the fact that you are hsing this year lowers the risk enough to justify not vaccinating a child that you do not want to get the flu. Each year I know of homeschool only children that do get the flu.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Thanks everyone! Dd's physical is on Friday with ds's on Tuesday, so I'll be deciding then. My ohysical is also on Tuesday. We will likely end up getting up because of ds's asthma, but I will do a lot of reading between now and Tuesday.

[Spy Car]

We ordinarily vaccinate for everything but the flu, but if I had a child with asthma I'm pretty sure we would vaccinate for the flu.

 

Bill

[TheTwinsMom1]

I have asthma so all members of our family get the flu shot. Two years ago I got the flu shot and still got the flu and it was horrible, so we take all precautions we can to prevent it.

[Momof3littles]

Another vote for looking at the Cochrane Database review studies. These types of studies have their limitations, but their comments are very interesting. You can also get a "plain language" interpretation of their findings if you aren't comfortable with science/medical lingo.

[gardenmom5]

there are times it is most definitely warranted. compromised immune system, don't play russian roulette. I had it twice, both times when my immune system was particularly compromised. normally, I hardly ever got the flu, and if I did, wasn't very sick.

 

the first time, I was literally prompted by 'my little voice" telling me to do it. we had no health insurance, and I thought I'd have to pay a dr visit on top of the vaccine. I was very concerned about the money. but the voice was adament. I had been extremely ill from a virus that simply refused to go away (I actually fought with it for five years and my health has never been the same since). I did get the flu six weeks later (I actually had flu twice that season), and was almost as sick as I've ever been with flu. I ate laying down in bed becasue I didn't have the strength to sit up. I'm absolutely convicned had I not had that shot, - I'd have needed to go to the hospital with no health insurance.

the second time was more as a precaution, I was pregnant and recovering from pneumonia. didn't get sick. vaccines were in very short supply that year.

[myfatherslily]

I would personally choose to get the shot, after a discussion with the dr, as you said. My DS hasn't had anything enough to diagnose asthma at this point, but he ends up needing albuterol, sometimes steroids, twice a breathing treatment, when he has a simple cold. I don't wish to see anything worse.

[catz]

We never got the flu shot until my daughter got Influenza B. High fever for over a week, multiple urgent care/ER trips, and a blown vacation later we all now get flu shots. She was SO miserable she couldn't walk because her limbs ached. And this kid is generally as healthy as a horse. All 4 of us got H1N1 when that was going around too, and that was miserable, especially for the kids.

 

I hate to even tell this story but we know a boy who has asthma. He got the flu at some point and ran very, high uncontrollable fevers and ended up in the hospital. He later developed epilepsy. He has a small amount of detectable brain damage that was determined to be a result of his high fevers.

[nmoira]

Here is a link to an article about it: http://www.naturalnews.com/030744_flu_vaccines_fraud.html

 

and a quote: The July 2010 Cochrane Database Review of 50 studies of flu vaccine use in healthy adults showed once again that these vaccines are not effective for those adults (Jefferson 2010). This confirms a previous review from 2007. That review looked at 274 studies. Both these reviews revealed that flu vaccine had no effect on complications such as pneumonia or on hospital admissions. And flu vaccine reduced the symptoms of illness by only a modest one percent.

 

The actual studies don't say quite what the article's author would like you to think. "Insufficient evidence" does not equal "no effect." Here are the summaries of the reports cited in the article (bolding mine):

 

2010 - mentioned by not formally cited (examining the efficacy of the vaccines in the elderly population):

 

 

MAIN RESULT: We included 75 studies. Overall we identified 100 data sets. We identified one RCT assessing efficacy and effectiveness. Although this seemed to show an effect against influenza symptoms it was underpowered to detect any effect on complications (1348 participants). The remainder of our evidence base included non-RCTs.

Due to the general low quality of non-RCTs and the likely presence of biases, which make interpretation of these data difficult and any firm conclusions potentially misleading, we were unable to reach clear conclusions about the effects of the vaccines in the elderly.

 

 

 

AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS:

 

The available evidence is of poor quality and provides no guidance regarding the safety, efficacy or effectiveness of influenza vaccines for people aged 65 years or older. To resolve the uncertainty, an adequately powered publicly-funded randomised, placebo-controlled trial run over several seasons should be undertaken.

 

 

2009 (efficacy of the vaccines in children)

 

 

MAIN RESULTS: Fifty-one studies with 294,159 observations were included. Sixteen RCTs and 18 cohort studies were included in the analysis of vaccine efficacy and effectiveness. From RCTs, live vaccines showed an efficacy of 82% (95% confidence interval (CI) 71% to 89%) and an effectiveness of 33% (95% CI 28% to 38%) in children older than two compared with placebo or no intervention. Inactivated vaccines had a lower efficacy of 59% (95% CI 41% to 71%) than live vaccines but similar effectiveness: 36% (95% CI 24% to 46%). In children under two, the efficacy of inactivated vaccine was similar to placebo. Variability in study design and presentation of data was such that a meta-analysis of safety outcome data was not feasible. Extensive evidence of reporting bias of safety outcomes from trials of live attenuated vaccines impeded meaningful analysis.

 

 

 

AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS:

 

Influenza vaccines are efficacious in children older than two but little evidence is available for children under two.

There was a marked difference between vaccine efficacy and effectiveness. No safety comparisons could be carried out, emphasizing the need for standardisation of methods and presentation of vaccine safety data in future studies. It was surprising to find only one study of inactivated vaccine in children under two years, given current recommendations to vaccinate healthy children from six months old in the USA and Canada. If immunisation in children is to be recommended as a public health policy, large-scale studies assessing important outcomes and directly comparing vaccine types are urgently required.

 

 

2008 (efficacy of the vaccine in adults)

 

 

MAIN RESULTS: Forty-eight reports were included: 38 (57 sub-studies) were clinical trials providing data about effectiveness, efficacy and harms of influenza vaccines and involved 66,248 people; 8 were comparative non-randomised studies and tested the association of the vaccines with serious harms; 2 were reports of harms which could not be introduced in the data analysis. Inactivated parenteral vaccines were 30% effective (95% CI 17% to 41%) against influenza-like illness, and 80% (95% CI 56% to 91%) efficacious against influenza when the vaccine matched the circulating strain and circulation was high, but decreased to 50% (95% CI 27% to 65%) when it did not. Excluding the studies of the 1968 to 1969 pandemic, effectiveness was 15% (95% CI 9% to 22%) and efficacy was 73% (95% CI 53% to 84%). Vaccination had a modest effect on time off work, but there was insufficient evidence to draw conclusions on hospital admissions or complication rates. Inactivated vaccines caused local tenderness and soreness and erythema. Spray vaccines had more modest performance. Monovalent whole-virion vaccines matching circulating viruses had high efficacy (VE 93%, 95% CI 69% to 98%) and effectiveness (VE 66%, 95% CI 51% to 77%) against the 1968 to 1969 pandemic.

 

 

 

AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS:

 

Influenza vaccines are effective in reducing cases of influenza, especially when the content predicts accurately circulating types and circulation is high.

However, they are less effective in reducing cases of influenza-like illness and have a modest impact on working days lost.

There is insufficient evidence to assess their impact on complications.

Whole-virion monovalent vaccines may perform best in a pandemic.

 

 

2007 (efficacy of flu vaccines in healthy children)

 

 

MAIN RESULT: Fifty-one studies involving 263,987 children were included. Seventeen papers were translated from Russian. Fourteen RCTs and 11 cohort studies were included in the analysis of vaccine efficacy and effectiveness. From RCTs, live vaccines showed an efficacy of 79% (95% confidence interval (CI) 48% to 92%) and an effectiveness of 33% (95% CI 28% to 38%) in children older than two years compared with placebo or no intervention. Inactivated vaccines had a lower efficacy of 59% (95% CI 41% to 71%) than live vaccines but similar effectiveness: 36% (95% CI 24% to 46%). In children under two, the efficacy of inactivated vaccine was similar to placebo. Thirty-four reports containing safety outcomes were included, 22 including live vaccines, 8 inactivated vaccines and 4 both types. The most commonly presented short-term outcomes were temperature and local reactions. The variability in design of studies and presentation of data was such that meta-analysis of safety outcome data was not feasible.

 

 

 

AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS:

 

Influenza vaccines are efficacious in children older than two years but little evidence is available for children under two.

There was a marked difference between vaccine efficacy and effectiveness. That no safety comparisons could be carried out emphasizes the need for standardisation of methods and presentation of vaccine safety data in future studies. It was surprising to find only one study of inactivated vaccine in children under two years, given recent recommendations to vaccinate healthy children from six months old in the USA and Canada.

If immunisation in children is to be recommended as public-health policy, large-scale studies assessing important outcomes and directly comparing vaccine types are urgently required.

 

[nmoira]

We didn't get flu shots until our entire household came down with the flu about 2-1/2 years ago. We were literally knocked on our butts for two weeks. Never again, if I can help it.

[Daisy]

We don't get it for our son because he had a febrile seizure after his last one.

 

We do get it for our daughter because she has bronchial asthma and a bicuspid aortic valve.

 

My husband gets it because he is a school teacher and exposed to all kinds of garbage. I sometimes get it and sometimes don't.

 

I think you just have to decide what you feel is best for your children.

[seraphina]

I voted yes to get the shot because I think I would in your situation.

 

We do not get the flu vaccine though even though most of my kids are in ps. I personally don't feel it's warranted with the lack of health issues in our family and I don't necessarily trust the lack of science and the fact it doesn't necessarily protect against the strains of the year. My parents get the flu vaccine because they can't afford to get sick.

[LaxMom]

We ordinarily vaccinate for everything but the flu, but if I had a child with asthma I'm pretty sure we would vaccinate for the flu.

 

Bill

 

Ditto.

[ktgrok]

The efficacy is high in those, but that means in lab conditions from my understanding. The effectiveness is very low, around 30 percent. Just wanted to clarify that for those wondering. That said, if you have a child that can't afford to get sick, maybe that 30 percent chance of it working is worth it for you. For my healthy kids it isn't.

Edited September 14, 2011 by ktgrok

[Pretty in Pink]

I have one child with full-blown asthma and two that are diagnosed with reactive airway. We *always* get the flu shot. All of us.

[Momof3littles]

When looking at the studies, here's one other point to consider. It was raised in one of the Cochrane review studies:

 

http://www2.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab001269.html

 

From the review study above:

 

WARNING:

This review includes 15 out of 36 trials funded by industry (four had no funding declaration). An earlier systematic review of 274 influenza vaccine studies published up to 2007 found industry funded studies were published in more prestigious journals and cited more than other studies independently from methodological quality and size. Studies funded from public sources were significantly less likely to report conclusions favorable to the vaccines. The review showed that reliable evidence on influenza vaccines is thin but there is evidence of widespread manipulation of conclusions and spurious notoriety of the studies. The content and conclusions of this review should be interpreted in light of this finding.

 

I think Cochrane raises some excellent points in their review studies (fwiw they have reviews on influenza vaccination for asthma, healthcare workers who work with the elderly, healthy adults, etc.). Review studies have their limitations but I think points such as the above need to be raised about some of the existing published (non review) studies.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Momof3littles

[blondeviolin]

We always get the flu shot. My lungs only function at 40% of what they should. Getting the flu could very well kill me and would definitely knock me down.

[Maus]

DH is diabetic. He catches everything that comes through the office. We get the flu shot.

[AngelBee]

No, we do not.

[jelbe5]

I voted no. I have asthma (lifelong). I stopped getting the flu shot several years ago and have found that I rarely become ill in the winter anymore. When I did get the shot I seemed to become very ill shortly thereafter. But this is just my personal experience and opinion.

[delaney]

No for all of us but the little man who is more at risk. Really we are super healthy-I mean NEVER sick. They get colds and stuff but I don't go to the Dr between well checks except for maybe an war infection, but I don't consider that as sick since it usually results from a cold.

[abbeyej]

More important than the flu shot to me would be achieving and maintain optimal vitamin D levels.

[Mommyof4ks]

I would get it, because asthmatics can have more complications with the flu. We had the flu in 2008, and it was way worse than anything we have ever experienced including having a baby. We all ended up in the ER, and I nearly had to get a spinal tap for suspected meningitis which is a complication of the flu that can be deadly (they decided to give me IV pain meds, and the doc said those would not touch the pain if it was meningitis, but the pain went away).

[Parker Martin]

Yes, we all get it. We especially make sure to get it because we have a relative with a compromised immune system and see that person often.

[regentrude]

We get the flu shot because I work with large groups of college students housed in dorms aka germ factories.

The one year no vaccine was available, I got the real flu, was very sick for a week and did not fully recover for another two weeks. Never again.

 

If I had a child with asthma, I would definitely get the vaccine.

[Georgiana Daniels]

We always get it, but when the whole H1N1 (I always think "hiney") first came out we didn't because that one was rushed.

 

Not a very scientific answer, I know!

[Nakia]

No one in my family had ever gotten the flu vaccine until last year when my employer made them mandatory for ALL employees. I got one; my dh and kids did not. This year, my middle daughter was diagnosed with allergies, and she just got over a really bad pneumonia with asthmatic qualities. That was horrible and very scary. I am pretty sure we will all get the flu shot this year. She has an appt. with her allergist in a couple of weeks, and I am going to talk it over with him.

[Peela]

We never get shots. Occasionally get the flu. Dh used to get shots till he got the shot, got the flu, got really sick, (none of us did)- then he stopped getting the shots too.

 

I also agree that adequate Vitamin D is probably more important.

[Runningmom80]

No one in my family had ever gotten the flu vaccine until last year when my employer made them mandatory for ALL employees. I got one; my dh and kids did not. This year, my middle daughter was diagnosed with allergies, and she just got over a really bad pneumonia with asthmatic qualities. That was horrible and very scary. I am pretty sure we will all get the flu shot this year. She has an appt. with her allergist in a couple of weeks, and I am going to talk it over with him.

 

 

Did you ever find out what food she was reacting to?

[Misty]

We selectively vaccinate and the flu shot is one we don't get. My kids are on the autism spectrum (mostly recovered now after years of biomedical treatment).. My most severe daughter (8) has tested as heavy metal toxic. The flu vaccine is one of the only vaccines that still contains thimerosal (mercury).

 

Additionally, my kids don't have asthma and we are knowledgeable about immune system support and herbal remedies. We also don't venture out much during the winter. We do usually get sick each winter at least once. But we take supplements and deal with it. Elderberry and Oscilliococcinum are good supplements to look into as well as making sure you get plenty of Vitamins C, D, & A and take probiotics as well (because a healthy immune system starts with a healthy gut.. true story!).

 

That's our own personal situation though. Everyone should make decisions based on their own dynamics, experiences, risk factors, etc.

[Nakia]

Did you ever find out what food she was reacting to?

 

That was a different kid, lol. We had a lot of craziness in those 2 weeks. My oldest is the one who had those crazy hives and facial swelling. We found out she had an autoimmune response to some kind of virus. It's something that might continue for years. :( My middle dd has seasonal and environmental allergies, and she is the one who had pneumonia.

 

Thank you for asking!

[Lady Florida.]

I voted yes, but then we get the flu shot every year.

[littlebug42]

We have never done flu shots before even in my dd that has asthma. However, her asthma has worsened this year so I am considering it. I have to get one this year because I work for a hospital and since I no longer work from home, I can't avoid it anymore. I have been concerned about getting the shots before because both my sister and my FIL would get sick after getting the shots and I don't want that for my kids. They have never had the flu before. I don't know if dh will get one or not but that is his decision.

[Stratford]

We get the flu shot every year. Two of the family have asthma, I work in the ER and get a lot of exposure to ick. This is our first year of homeschool, I'm hoping that only having one kid in preschool and eliminating the public school exposure will help a bit.