I don't understand some people's priorities...

[ktgrok]

I know that I am VERY lucky to be able to stay home with my kids. But I also know that most of the reason I can stay home is NOT luck, it is smart decisions. We drive used vehicles, we have no car payment, we bought a house that was in bad shape so we could afford the mortgage and we are fixing it up bit by bit, we don't have cable, and we don't go out to restaruants often. I make food from scratch, etc. We can't afford vacations really, at least without saving for a year or more. But I am home with my kids! Even when I had to work when my son was young i worked opposite my husband's schedule, so I was home when he wasn't. My parents did the same thing, they scrimped and saved to keep us home.

 

My sister and her husband both work. Their baby was in daycare at 8 weeks, and now at 6 months has been sick at least once a month. Even their doctor has begged them to keep her out of daycare. Well, her fabulous daycare was closed down by DCF last week, and the only other place she could find with an opening took horrid care of her. She picked her up on a friday and she had a 101 fever that no one had noticed.And no one spoke English to even tell her how she was that day. But she was going to take her back there because she had "no other choice.". That's when I volunteered/begged to watch her at least until they find a better place. I couldn't stand thinking of her being neglected. So she is here now, thankfully. I have my one 1 year old and an 11 year old, but I'd rather she be here.

 

Anyway, what frustates me is the "no other choice" whine. Um, wow. They let their house be foreclosed on so they could get a rental that was 1000 less a month, even though they could afford the last place. They eat out almost every meal. They buy a new flat screen tv at least once every year. They have a boat! My sister just turned in her leased Jetta and got a brand new one. And today, the last straw was when I drove to meet my BIL to pick up my niece and he was in a brand new 4 door truck! He apparantly "had" to trade in his Jeep Commander because it didn't have a big enough engine to really tow the boat well. Yeah...um.....wouldn't want to have to drive slowly when towing your freakin boat! I can totally see how you HAVE to put your daughter in daycare, with all those stupid expenses!

 

Ugh! Here I am in my used minivan driving 45 minutes round trip to pick up your daughter, and totally rearrange my whole life, so that she is cared for, while you drive off in your gorgeous brand new giant truck.

 

maybe no one will get why this frustrates me. And I'm sure it makes me a bad person to care. But I am VERY grateful my husband is willing to sacrifice so that he doesn't have to worry about who takes care of his daughter.

[kchara]

I get it. I understand. :grouphug:

[Jennifer3141]

:grouphug:

 

That would be hard to deal with. And you need to stop driving to pick your niece up unless you are being PAID to do so.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I understand 100%

[Remudamom]

If that was my sister I'd send her over some papers to sign giving me custody of her child. Apparently she doesn't want her.

 

You are a good sister.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

:grouphug:

 

That would be hard to deal with. And you need to stop driving to pick your niece up unless you are being PAID to do so.

 

:iagree:If they can afford a new truck, they can afford to drop her off at your house for daycare. That's the way it is. It frustrates me to see things like this too--it's choices.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

There is a huge difference between those who have to put their child in daycare to work in order to pay for housing, utilities, food, clothing, transportation, etc. and those who have to put their child in daycare to pay for their new truck to tow their boat. :grouphug:

 

From personal experience- don't let them take advantage of you. I know you want to do what is best for your niece, but you cannot solve their problems for them. You will end up angry and burned out.

[QuirkyKapers]

I get it. One of the kids in the neighborhood wondered how come I got to stay home while my husband worked since his mom and dad both had to work. I told him that my husband and I have made certain choices that have allowed us to be able to have me stay home. We haven't bought everything we wanted and saved money from when I worked and their weren't kids. Hopefully, it made him think.

[Amy in NH]

I'm with you. But I also think that with priorities like those, they will be happy to take advantage of you. Make sure you have your expectations clearly spelled out, like being paid for the commute time & gas to pick up your niece.

[DawnM]

I have a very hard time with anyone who spends money they don't have carelessly, and to ME, that means paying CASH for your toys and not having to call your sister to babysit for free.

 

:D

 

Dawn

[kwickimom]

Oh I TOTALLY get it and it drives me batty. My neighbor who wants to HS, but HAS to be a ps teacher because they "need" the money and have "no other choice" is making payments on THREE vehicles and a camper, eats out daily, buys her poor only child everything under the sun, goes camping all the time, etc.

 

I am driving a crappy minivan with no power anything, we go out to eat once a month if lucky, we hardly buy the kids anything, shop yard sales and stay home on the weekends.

 

SO sick of the pity partys with these types of people!!!!!

[Melabella]

:grouphug: I can completely relate to your situation. My sil and bil are the same way and it frustrates me to no end.

[Twilight Woods]

Ugh! Here I am in my used minivan driving 45 minutes round trip to pick up your daughter, and totally rearrange my whole life, so that she is cared for, while you drive off in your gorgeous brand new giant truck.

 

YOU offered. So technically you are not rearranging your whole life. Your helping out. On a temporary basis. :)

 

I totally understand and I have been there. BUT it is THEIR life not yours. So I would try to not let it work you up or pass judgement.

 

I am thankful my DH works hard and sacrifices so I can stay home. BUT that's our decision to live this way not anyone else.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

:grouphug:

And you need to stop driving to pick your niece up unless you are being PAID to do so.

 

:iagree:If they can afford a new truck, they can afford to drop her off at your house for daycare. That's the way it is. It frustrates me to see things like this too--it's choices.

 

There is a huge difference between those who have to put their child in daycare to work in order to pay for housing, utilities, food, clothing, transportation, etc. and those who have to put their child in daycare to pay for their new truck to tow their boat. :grouphug:

 

 

These are my exact thoughts. To my, its so frustrating to see people who would rather have a certain "status" in life and have a certain amount of "things" rather than putting family first! We also make major sacrifices to keep my dc home but it is SO worth it, not even an issue.

[Jennifer in MI]

My brother and SIL are this way. It's so sad to see. They honestly believe they both have to work to make ends meet. But to watch them getting new cars every other year and hearing of their latest toys is hard.

 

They are the family members that live the furthest away and they cannot ever come up to see us because they never have enough money. It's just unrealistic to expect ALL of us to go down to see them regularly.

 

We've wanted to take a family vacation with them forever! Even something cheap is vetoed.

 

Not the way I choose to live my life!!!

[sassenach]

Totally understand. We had good friends who were like this. It really made it hard to be friends with them and eventually led to the demise of our friendship. They bought a motorcycle, a string of new cars, they would buy dvd's instead of rent (literally buy a dvd of a movie they had never seen before- weekly!), on and on. The last straw for me was when they had their second baby. Wife was home for 6 weeks and chose to keep the older sister in full-day daycare for the entire 6 weeks, instead of keeping her home. Both of the girls have had numerous health issues because of daycare. They go from 6:30am until 6:30 pm every day. I seriously don't understand. at. all.

 

My advice to you: don't do the driving and ask to be paid. I know you are willing to sacrifice for your niece, but the resentment is going to kill your relationship with them.

[delaney]

I really think is most cases families could get by on one income if they REALLY tried. It might now be pretty but it is doable. The thing is people don't want to give up their bigger house, newer car, or vacations. My mom washed clothes by hand, had no car during the day, and lived paycheck to paycheck to stay home when we were small. It wasn't always fun but she was there for us. Of course there is the group that just doesn't want to be with their kids all day and that is saddest for me.

[Samiam]

While I get your frustration at the situation, on the other hand, people do have to make their own choices in life, and it really isn't for anyone else to judge.

 

I was probably alot like her in when I was in my late 20's, working full-time (except I was VERY picky about daycare, even changed daycares about once a year due to not being happy each time my son was moved up to the next age room and things in that new room not being as good as they were in the prior room).

 

Life changes, things happen, and lessons are learned. We grow up, our priorities get re-arranged. Perhaps that will happen to your sister as well. Or maybe not. Maybe they will always be "keeping up with the Jones", but that is their choice. You can love her as a person, but not love her choices. It is not your place in life to have to love her choices (but big bravo to you for helping her with the baby!!!)

 

I mean, many people do not understand the choices you and I have made, to give up a full-time income, to not utilize the free public education system, to scrimp and scrounge, to drive not-so-great vehicles, etc, in order to be home with our children. So they are on the other side of the fence judging us, wondering why we do not just go get a job to make our lives financially better.

 

To each his own, ya know.

[RanchGirl]

:grouphug: I can completely relate to your situation. My sil and bil are the same way and it frustrates me to no end.

 

:iagree: I have a BIL/SIL like this too. They put their daughter in a large daycare despite not needing to, mom was just sick of being at home. My poor niece was crying her head off in daycare everyday, getting ear infections monthly, but when i offered to help, it would only work if I was willing to drive one hour each way and stay at their house for ten hours. Nothing else would be convenient enough for them!

 

I really don't understand why people have children if they aren't interested in raising them. I know plenty of great moms who work but are still very involved with their children and try to at least minimize the time spent in daycare.

[alpidarkomama]

I know that I am VERY lucky to be able to stay home with my kids. But I also know that most of the reason I can stay home is NOT luck, it is smart decisions.

 

People's priorities have really changed over time. :( It's definitely not luck. Thank God, we've never had any catastrophes either that would require me to work for income. So many, many expenses that people take for granted can really be drastically reduced or eliminated. And with 4 kids and a median income, we don't even pay federal taxes, and very little in state taxes! If I made the same as my husband, so much would go to taxes, a second car, work clothes, etc. Bleah.

[GTJo1996]

I can TOTALLY relate to this scenario. We have made our share of mistakes and now that I am at home, I have the time to see what dumb choices we made. Now I am older and wiser and I see my friends in this merry-go-round of materialism and debt that they cannot get off of. When we had more money, we spent more money. Now that we're a one income family, we have to figure out where to cut the fat, and we're still learning!

 

I have recently witnessed one of my best friends having to sell her dream home, take her boys out of the preschool they love, and move to a rental home. She realizes now they are better off without all that "stuff". I think it's Dave Ramsey that decribes this as "stuff-itis" - the need to have tons of stuff.

 

Your sister needs a reality check. Unfortunately YOU probably can't be the one to make her understand her choices are negatively affecting the baby. You know how sisters get all riled-up when they think another sis is trying to tell her what to do! You are a good person for making your niece's caretaking a priority. Hang in there, and try to remain postive!

[Mynyel]

There is a huge difference between those who have to put their child in daycare to work in order to pay for housing, utilities, food, clothing, transportation, etc. and those who have to put their child in daycare to pay for their new truck to tow their boat. :grouphug:

 

From personal experience- don't let them take advantage of you. I know you want to do what is best for your niece, but you cannot solve their problems for them. You will end up angry and burned out.

 

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

I would also say they need to take her to you. They aren't paying daycare so they can afford the gas :) That will be one less thing off the plate.

[Julie in Austin]

I agree with those who think that you are enabling their lifestyle.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I get it too. That's about all I can say without sounding bitter.

 

And I agree that free child care doesn't have to include dropping off the kid at home at the end if the day unless it is more convenient for you.

[waa510]

I understand 100%. It's difficult to see family waste money like that, especially when a child is involved and seemingly neglected as a result of dumb spending. I have in-laws who make similar bad money choices. Some members of family on my side are also very money-dumb. I'm not saying buying a boat or new car is dumb..but it is dumb if you have to put your kiddo in a 3rd rate daycare as a result of said purchases. It's sad and wrong, imo.

 

We may seem lower middle class upon first glance at our cars, fixer-upper home, or hand-me-down kid clothes..but we live way below our means so we can save a boatload of money for our 'emergency fund', kid's college funds and savings. Dh insists on having at least 10,000k in emergency and 5,000k in savings at any one time. We are able to go visit family when invited last minute thanks to these funds and aren't in a world of hurt when the a/c breaks!

 

Kudos to you for taking in that sweet baby during the day so that she could be well cared for.

[Barry Goldwater]

Apparently, they haven't considered that their children will probably be someday deciding what sort of nursing home and end-of-life care they themselves will receive...

[justamouse]

maybe no one will get why this frustrates me. And I'm sure it makes me a bad person to care. But I am VERY grateful my husband is willing to sacrifice so that he doesn't have to worry about who takes care of his daughter.

 

Read Radical Homemakers. You will love it, and it proves your point.

[Mommyfaithe]

If that was my sister I'd send her over some papers to sign giving me custody of her child. Apparently she doesn't want her.

 

You are a good sister.

 

Yep...:iagree:

 

I hope they are AT least paying you. I think did needs a good heart to heart.

Known in my neighborhood as a "wake the f*ck up!"

Faithe whose blood boils over this.

[UnsinkableKristen]

I'm not saying buying a boat or new car is dumb..but it is dumb if you have to put your kiddo in a 3rd rate daycare as a result of said purchases.

 

 

 

:iagree: I think it is terribly sad that they are putting their child into a day care that doesn't take good care of her, and I'm glad you offered to help.

 

 

However, I also don't think it is fair to criticize other families for how they spend their money. Some people truly love their work and just don't want to stay at home. Some people are blessed to have very high paying jobs and can AFFORD to get new cars and boats and DVDs every week. There is nothing WRONG with having a well paying job and enjoying the benefits of that. And having those things does not mean that a family is in debt to their eyeballs and making poor choices. Some people just make a lot of money.

[twoforjoy]

However, I also don't think it is fair to criticize other families for how they spend their money. Some people truly love their work and just don't want to stay at home. Some people are blessed to have very high paying jobs and can AFFORD to get new cars and boats and DVDs every week. There is nothing WRONG with having a well paying job and enjoying the benefits of that. And having those things does not mean that a family is in debt to their eyeballs and making poor choices. Some people just make a lot of money.

 

Along with that, I think it's much harder to go from two (good) incomes to one income, than to just have been living off of either one income or to go from two not-so-great incomes to one income.

 

I think the reason I can stay home is that DH and I have made stupid choices. LOL If we'd been smart and chosen college majors that would have gotten us jobs, and hadn't gotten married right after graduation, hadn't chosen to go to graduate school, and been like the other sensible, financially-responsible couples we know who got married later, had a good-paying job, bought a house, and all that, I don't know that we would have been able, practically, to make the changes necessary to get by on one salary. As it is, we spent much of our marriage living on either two part-time incomes or two grad student stipends, so even having one full-time income has been a step up.

[chiguirre]

If you want to maintain a civil relationship with your sister, stop babysitting right now. Call tonight and make up some excuse why you can't have your niece over tomorrow (a convenient stomach virus will do). If you keep babysitting for free, you will grow to resent your sister quickly and it will all blow up. You are kind to be concerned about your niece, but she's not your responsibility. Your sister and bil have to learn to be parents and enabling their irresponsibility will only make you bitter and put off their day of reckoning. It's hard, but it needs to be nipped in the bud.

 

:grouphug:

[Jennifer in MI]

:iagree

However, I also don't think it is fair to criticize other families for how they spend their money. Some people truly love their work and just don't want to stay at home. Some people are blessed to have very high paying jobs and can AFFORD to get new cars and boats and DVDs every week. There is nothing WRONG with having a well paying job and enjoying the benefits of that. And having those things does not mean that a family is in debt to their eyeballs and making poor choices. Some people just make a lot of money.

 

I would agree with you, but when there's a child involved who is suffering or if this family is inconveniencing others as a result of these poor choices, I think it's okay to judge/criticize.

[Garga]

My BIL and SIL have tons of stuff, and then complain about how they don't have money. They bought the last big screen tv b/c my BIL didn't want to have to carry the old big screen tv to the repair shop for a part to be replaced. Instead, they just bought an whole new tv so that the delivery people would carry the old one out. My BIL is strong and has strong friends. It was pure laziness. It was not because of a medical condition! And he had a new truck that he could have transported it in.

 

They constantly are rotating their cars. Selling old ones, getting new ones, leasing them. I can never keep track of their vehicles.

 

I try not to think about it too much or I get angry at them.

[UnsinkableKristen]

I would agree with you, but when there's a child involved who is suffering or if this family is inconveniencing others as a result of these poor choices, I think it's okay to judge/criticize.

 

 

I agree with that. I probably didn't make the distinction clear in my post. I totally think the OP is in the right and that the family in question is making very poor choices. It was some of the other comments about families whose only crime seemed to be spending lots of money on things the commenter didn't understand. I mean, it's really none of our business if someone wants to spend $100,000/yr on chewing gum if they are taking care of their family and meeting their public responsibilities.

[Quiver0f10]

I used to own a day care. I get it.

[Jenny in Florida]

They bought a motorcycle, a string of new cars, they would buy dvd's instead of rent (literally buy a dvd of a movie they had never seen before- weekly!), on and on.

 

I do understand the frustration people are expressing here, especially when it comes to seeing kids who seem to be paying the price for their parents' decisions.

 

However, about the DVDs: We've known several families who have a tradition of buying a movie each week. For most families, it works out to be much less expensive than taking the whole crew to a theatre and is a nice treat to look forward to each week. Yes, it is less expensive to rent, but you often have fewer choices or have to wait to get a film you especially want. Buying is much more convenient and allows you to keep or lend the movie so it can be watched again and again.

 

In our area, movie tickets run about $10 for adults and $7 for children. A family of two adults and two kids would pay $34, more than the price of buying a DVD, just to get in the door. Snacks can easily run another $8-10 per person. When you add it up, a $25 DVD and some home-popped corn start looking like a bargain.

[Jenny in Florida]

While I get your frustration at the situation, on the other hand, people do have to make their own choices in life, and it really isn't for anyone else to judge.

 

And that is very true, too.

[mom2scouts]

I know you want to take care of your baby niece, but if you continue to provide daycare (free?) you are just enabling them to put their stuff first and their baby last. They should drop her off AND pay you for your time. They were paying the people who were providing bad care, so they should be willing to pay someone who really cares about their daughter. People don't change until something becomes painful enough.

[Jennifer in MI]

I agree with that. I probably didn't make the distinction clear in my post. I totally think the OP is in the right and that the family in question is making very poor choices. It was some of the other comments about families whose only crime seemed to be spending lots of money on things the commenter didn't understand. I mean, it's really none of our business if someone wants to spend $100,000/yr on chewing gum if they are taking care of their family and meeting their public responsibilities.

 

:thumbup1::)

[Roadrunner]

health insurance

[bkpan]

:iagree: I think it is terribly sad that they are putting their child into a day care that doesn't take good care of her, and I'm glad you offered to help.

 

 

However, I also don't think it is fair to criticize other families for how they spend their money. Some people truly love their work and just don't want to stay at home. Some people are blessed to have very high paying jobs and can AFFORD to get new cars and boats and DVDs every week. There is nothing WRONG with having a well paying job and enjoying the benefits of that. And having those things does not mean that a family is in debt to their eyeballs and making poor choices. Some people just make a lot of money.

 

:iagree:

 

Really, no matter which side it is coming from, it is a sad thing to be so critical of another families decisions. Unless there is obvious abuse or neglect it is simply another option - one that would not work for your family, or obviously any of the families on this board, but a legitimate choice anyway. No one really has the inside understanding of another family and how each individual influences the dynamics in it.

 

Really, try to be kind. Everyone really IS fighting a hard battle!!

 

Kim

[mom4him]

Oh, I get it. TOTALLY! I have heard it on so many levels all the way from homeschool to the diet that could majorly help their child but they don't have the time/money/knowledge to do it. Well, neither do I but I make the time, we cut so we have the money, and I gained the knowledge by reading, reading, reading, reading, reading.:tongue_smilie:

Change is NOT easy but so necessary in so many areas in our American families. I look at our family and there are changes that need to be made. By and with the help of God the important ones will happen.

[mommaduck]

Dang, if they have all of that and "need" daycare, they could maybe care enough to get a nanny. Good grief. Sounds like they didn't really want the baby. (yes, I know I should not have gone there, but I said it). If you insist on quality everything else...try finding quality care for your child FIRST. (this does not mean they have to stay home with their child or have to have a nanny. But at least find QUALITY care for your child...stated as a former nanny)

Edited May 16, 2011 by mommaduck

[ktgrok]

:iagree::iagree:

 

I would also say they need to take her to you. They aren't paying daycare so they can afford the gas :) That will be one less thing off the plate.

 

I thought about it more. They had offered to pay me to watch her, and at first I said don't worry about it. But now it looks like it will be for at least a month, and I'm going to be driving to meet them half way, and then I saw the new truck and thought, yeah, I'm taking the money!!!!

 

We have bare concrete in two bedrooms because we wanted to pay off credit cards before putting more money in home improvements. So the money I make will put in new flooring!

[ktgrok]

:iagree: I think it is terribly sad that they are putting their child into a day care that doesn't take good care of her, and I'm glad you offered to help.

 

 

However, I also don't think it is fair to criticize other families for how they spend their money. Some people truly love their work and just don't want to stay at home. Some people are blessed to have very high paying jobs and can AFFORD to get new cars and boats and DVDs every week. There is nothing WRONG with having a well paying job and enjoying the benefits of that. And having those things does not mean that a family is in debt to their eyeballs and making poor choices. Some people just make a lot of money.

 

You know, that's true. And although I think it is sad when people find a job more fulfilling than their own child, I guess that is their choice. It does frustrate me though to see them letting their home get forclosed on (maybe a short sale, not sure) just few months ago, and now they are buying a new truck. Seriously???

[ktgrok]

If you want to maintain a civil relationship with your sister, stop babysitting right now. Call tonight and make up some excuse why you can't have your niece over tomorrow (a convenient stomach virus will do). If you keep babysitting for free, you will grow to resent your sister quickly and it will all blow up. You are kind to be concerned about your niece, but she's not your responsibility. Your sister and bil have to learn to be parents and enabling their irresponsibility will only make you bitter and put off their day of reckoning. It's hard, but it needs to be nipped in the bud.

 

:grouphug:

 

They are willing to pay me, and now that I have seen the new truck, I'm going to take the money. Apparantly money is what they respect.

[ktgrok]

:iagree:

 

Really, no matter which side it is coming from, it is a sad thing to be so critical of another families decisions. Unless there is obvious abuse or neglect it is simply another option - one that would not work for your family, or obviously any of the families on this board, but a legitimate choice anyway. No one really has the inside understanding of another family and how each individual influences the dynamics in it.

 

Really, try to be kind. Everyone really IS fighting a hard battle!!

 

Kim

I know....and I'm trying. I think what killed me was when she KNEW the last place was bad, KNEW they weren't playing with her at all (she watched on the webcam), and KNEW she got sick and no one even noticed, and her gut was telling her it wasn't a good place, and yet she was going to take her back there! I'm sorry, I'd quit my job or take leave or something before I'd drop my daughter off somewhere I didn't think was safe. She didn't even ASK me if I'd watch her, because it's a long drive. I had to offer.

 

and the baby is a doll. VERY cute, and easy to care for. it's an inconvenience for sure, but I wouldn't have been able to sleep if she was in that horrid place.

 

And really, I have tons of practice ignoring my sister's choices...this will have to just be one more. At least I don't yell at her about her choices. She felt totally fine having a total hissy fit over my homebirth, and judging me to my face for everything from extended breastfeeding to discipline to my choice of birthing classes.

 

It's amazing we are even related :lol:

[jenL]

I'm with you. But I also think that with priorities like those, they will be happy to take advantage of you. Make sure you have your expectations clearly spelled out, like being paid for the commute time & gas to pick up your niece.

 

 

:iagree:

 

ETA - I hadn't read through all the responses before posting. I see you will be getting paid. I think that is a good thing for all parties.

Edited May 16, 2011 by jenL
rec more info.

[Mejane]

 

Really, no matter which side it is coming from, it is a sad thing to be so critical of another families decisions. Unless there is obvious abuse or neglect it is simply another option - one that would not work for your family, or obviously any of the families on this board, but a legitimate choice anyway. No one really has the inside understanding of another family and how each individual influences the dynamics in it.

 

 

 

:confused: I think the OP is perfectly within her rights to be critical of these parents especially as it's now impacting her life. Putting your child in a substandard daycare situation so you can pay for a boat and a new truck? Expecting relatives to jump in and care for your child so you can work to buy luxury items? Come on.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Mejane

[leeannpal]

:iagree:

 

Really, no matter which side it is coming from, it is a sad thing to be so critical of another families decisions. Unless there is obvious abuse or neglect it is simply another option - one that would not work for your family, or obviously any of the families on this board, but a legitimate choice anyway. No one really has the inside understanding of another family and how each individual influences the dynamics in it.

 

Really, try to be kind. Everyone really IS fighting a hard battle!!

 

Kim

 

This is what I think too. OP, your sister's lifestyle choices are hers.

I also have to disagree with you that luck is not invloved with you being able to stay at home. You are lucky your husband hasn't had an accident or health issues that preclude him from working. You are lucky that you don't have a child with a serious health issue that causes mounting medical bills. I've known plenty of people who "did all the right things" concerning finances and still lost a lot in the stock market, or lost a job out of the blue ot had serious medical issues that kept them from working.