5KidzRUs Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Snip - Thank you all for excellent and thoughtful advice! Edited January 8, 2011 by 5KidzRUs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yes. And he was acting like an (ahem) if he kicked a cat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Good grief, what kind of sicko does that? Yes, IMO, parents are required to apologize when they're in the wrong, just like anyone else. If they want their kids to learn appropriate behavior and humility, they have to model it. Of course I think the dad should apologize, but he doesn't sound like the kind of guy who will. What a sad thing for their relationship :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yes, I would apologize first. However, I suspect *everything* hasn't been disclosed here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yes, I try very hard to apologize when I'm in the wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 He kicked her cat?! I'm sorry you lost me there. What kind of a person kicks a cat to show his daughter how angry he is? He doesn't just need to apologize, he needs therapy. Yes, I apologize to my dc when I've done something wrong. I've told my DH to apologize at times. He does not know how to apologize. He's a "don't talk about it and forget it" type person. I'm trying to bring about a change in that respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yes, I would apologize first. However, I suspect *everything* hasn't been disclosed here. I surely hope not, but if he actually kicked her cat, regardless of what else happened, he has serious issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Of course. I can't believe there would even be a "counter" or another side to the question. I can't believe it's a question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamamaloca Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Should parents apologize when they are in the wrong too? Absolutely. Kicking a cat is worth more than an apology, though, there should be concrete work on anger management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 They should apologize. Kicking cats is not ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratia271 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I firmly believe in mutual respect in all relationships, which in my opinion necessitates apologizing when someone has said or done something inappropriate. Giving and receiving respect has nothing to do with age or status in a relationship. It's part of every healthy relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annandatje Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 People should apologize when they have wronged another regardless of their status as parent. Ideally the wife in this situation can rehome the husband and keep the children and cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 my kids have gotten tons of apologies from me. They're not as good about apologizing though.:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I apologize to my kids all the time... well, not all the time, but often enough as appropriate. Kids who don't hear apologies don't learn to give them, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5KidzRUs Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 People should apologize when they have wronged another regardless of their status as parent. Ideally the wife in this situation can rehome the husband and keep the children and cat. LOL! That was my suggestion. I forgot that the first argument between the sisters (that triggered it all) was about the cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I've kicked our cats before. Not on purpose, but when one of those felines gets in just the right place when I'm walking, it tends to look like a kick.:glare: And if someone were upset with me at that moment, it could be reported as a kick. What I'm trying to say is that things aren't always as they appear. OP, did you see or hear any of this first hand? Is the dh prone to violence of any kind? It sounds like there might be some background info if she's looking for a another place to live now. Surely this isn't their first altercation. And, as has been stated on this board many times, an 18yo is an adult. She has the option of apologizing, also. Of course, if she truly believes she was in the right 100%, she might choose not to apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yes, parents should apologize. But there's got to be more to the situation than him kicking a cat, (I'm assuming the cat wasn't actually hurt) if she's trying to find another place to live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Of course. I can't believe there would even be a "counter" or another side to the question. I can't believe it's a question. :iagree: And, kicking a cat???? :ohmy: "A--hole" doesn't even begin describe the person who does that kind of thing. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapbookbuzz Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 When someone is wrong, and they know they're wrong, then, yes, they should apologize. No exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendedforecast Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yes. In our house we treat others the way we want to be treated and the way we want them to treat others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I was *stunned* when a friend of mine told me that in the church she grew up in, they taught that parents should never apologize to children (and her dad was the pastor!). Stunned. That seems to be based on the delusion that children are something less than human, and that parents are something greater than human. Both of which are equally wrong, imo. Parents don't get a free pass to avoid basic manners and decency! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I don't think parents always have to apologize. Sometimes it's better to let be. (For example, occasionally my diabolical plan of letting perceived parental injustice to be rather than saying sorry has unite a few siblings against a common grievance. *insert Dr Evil laugh*) I also think people PURPOSELY kicking cats in fits of anger have bigger issues than learning to say they are sorry. Sounds like moving out is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5KidzRUs Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 OP, did you see or hear any of this first hand? No, I did not see any of it first hand. We are on the other side of the earth right now - otherwise I would take her in. She is a sweet girl who has always been pretty respectful. She is working on her Bachelors degree right now. Never goes out at night, never smokes or drinks or even dates. She does have nice friends and her mom and her say she gets all A's and B's in her classes. She is very, VERY loving with her cat - says it is like her child. Thank you for all your replies. This has been very heavy on my heart as it just makes no sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I always apologize to my kids when I have done wrong. It models how to handle their own mistakes with others and lets them off the hook for believing that adults are infallible and that they must be, too, when they reach adulthood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I was *stunned* when a friend of mine told me that in the church she grew up in, they taught that parents should never apologize to children (and her dad was the pastor!). Stunned. That seems to be based on the delusion that children are something less than human, and that parents are something greater than human. Both of which are equally wrong, imo. Parents don't get a free pass to avoid basic manners and decency! IME, limited as it is, it usually comes from an authoritarian/chain of command POV or style of parenting. Not a lesser/greater human worth POV. I wouldn't say parents should never apologize. Never say never being the basis of that opinion. I just don't think they should necessarily ALWAYS have to do it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 He kicked her cat?! I'm sorry you lost me there. What kind of a person kicks a cat to show his daughter how angry he is? Yes. If it was an intentional kick, that's abuse and she needs to get the heck out of dodge before she's his next target. As for the original question, yes I absolutely apologize to my kids. I believe a lot of parenting is done simply by example. Plus, I WANT my kids to know I'm not perfect. I think it makes me more approachable as a parent if I'm willing to admit to my mistakes and try to rectify them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I think parents apologizing is one of the biggest moments for children. No one is perfect. No one is above saying I'm sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~cindy~ Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 He kicked her cat?! I'm sorry you lost me there. What kind of a person kicks a cat to show his daughter how angry he is? He doesn't just need to apologize, he needs therapy. Yes, I apologize to my dc when I've done something wrong. I've told my DH to apologize at times. He does not know how to apologize. He's a "don't talk about it and forget it" type person. I'm trying to bring about a change in that respect. :iagree: I also hope that poor girl finds somewhere else to live away from someone with that kind of anger. Disgusting man!!! Absolutely the adult should apologise. How do I show my children the right way to act if I do not extend that same common courtesy to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Absolutely. If I have wronged another adult, I should apologize. Why not my kids? And kicking the cat? He sounds like a scary dude!!! I think this situation is way beyond apologizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Heck, yeah. Kicking a cat goes beyond normal behavior though. That is cruel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Absolutely. Kids learn through watching. I remember being little and wanting to grow up so I could curse without getting into trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheryl Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I can't even count how many times I have apologized to my kids, and they are still little girls. A sincere and heartfelt apology goes a very long way. I have to say that if my husband ever kicked one of our animals, mad or not, I would knock him on the head with a heavy object, something like a cast iron frying pan. And I am not even joking. I don't tolerate animal abuse at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Of course. I can't believe there would even be a "counter" or another side to the question. I can't believe it's a question. Why isn't someone more concerned with the VIOLENCE in the home?!?!? If he thinks it is okay to ASSAULT AN ANIMAL to 'demonstrate' that her raising her voice was wrong?!?!??!?! Words fail me. He needs help and a LOT of it. And she probably does, too, from having to live with someone like that. Ohmyword. :001_huh: ETA: Of course I've apologized to my kids. I'm not perfect! Edited January 6, 2011 by ThatCyndiGirl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annandatje Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Why isn't someone more concerned with the VIOLENCE in the home?!?!?QUOTE] I suggested the husband be rehomed because the willingness to resort to violence seldom bodes well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Why isn't someone more concerned with the VIOLENCE in the home?!?!?QUOTE] I suggested the husband be rehomed because the willingness to resort to violence seldom bodes well. Yeah,I read the rest of the thread AFTER I posted. I liked your suggestion. :lol: I can see the ad on Craigslist now! One human male. Can be loving, but does not get along well with teenage girls. Has been known to kick when angry. Comes with his own pillow and blanket and a few toys. Can include small container of food. Small rehoming fee offered to take this guy off of our hands. Edited January 6, 2011 by ThatCyndiGirl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Why isn't someone more concerned with the VIOLENCE in the home?!?!? If he thinks it is okay to ASSAULT AN ANIMAL to 'demonstrate' that her raising her voice was wrong?!?!??!?! Words fail me. He needs help and a LOT of it. And she probably does, too, from having to live with someone like that. Ohmyword. :001_huh: ETA: Of course I've apologized to my kids. I'm not perfect! For real! AWFUL!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 IME, limited as it is, it usually comes from an authoritarian/chain of command POV or style of parenting. Not a lesser/greater human worth POV. I think the subtlety of the distinction you are making is beyond my ability to comprehend. :001_smile: The belief in her church was that children are highly sinful, manipulative, etc. and it was the responsibility of the parents, who are further along in their walk with God, to set them straight. Isn't an authoritarian view based on one person or group of people being more worthy, better, than another? I wouldn't say parents should never apologize. Never say never being the basis of that opinion. I just don't think they should necessarily ALWAYS have to do it either. This I get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 KICKED HER CAT???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To express his frustration with her? :ohmy::confused1::eek::ack2: Ummm. I think that person needs some serious professional help. Truly. Sounds like a dangerous situation on a lot of levels. Acutally, sounds abusive. Not just to the cat. Very scary to me. Honestly, I would probably involve CPS if the dad wasn't willing to enter serious therapy immediately. I'd make sure to have long regular talks with the children if I wasn't turning it over to CPS. An apology is in order. But, it should be accompanied with a promise to complete therapy and a lot of grovelling. Whoa. I can't be of more help b/c I need to go vomit. Or bang my head on a wall. Or something like that. :leaving: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5KidzRUs Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Small rehoming fee. Small rehoming fee OFFERED :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Small rehoming fee OFFERED :glare: Noted and changed. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Parents make mistakes. It is proper to apologize when your mistakes harm another person, regardless of whether or not the other person is a child. I apologize to my kids all the time (because I am not perfect). :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 The belief in her church I am catholic. Fairly certain she either isn't or is an ignorant one. Isn't an authoritarian view based on one person or group of people being more worthy, better, than another? No. It is based on just authority to guide and to rule, not domination. My dh has just authority over the work of his employees. His boss has just authority over my dh's work. This line of authority is seen in all areas of life. Work, family, even recreation (a coach over players for example and even further a team captain and so forth). Yet most coaches would not feel that their players have less worth as humans. In fact, good coaches see and cultivate the tremendous worth of their players. Side note. I am not even a bit into sports. Dh is going to be so proud I used a sports analogy.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Oh my, is this just me is this wrong on various levels? Surely there are time when a parent should apologize. But it sounds to me like there are some major issues in this family. Wives who want to honor their husbands don't seek comfort from people via facebook (even people they are family - it's not about FB). I tend to think that to be willing to talk about him this way, one would be halfway to divorce already, and then I would be suspicious about her motives for wanting to make him look bad. I have two sisters whom I am pretty close to. I would not be telling this story to either of them under any circumstances I can imagine. I would be telling my DH he needs counseling if I thought it were that bad, and kicking a cat seems pretty bad to me, if it's true. But unless I were seeking support because I needed to get out of the marriage, I would not be doing this to my husband. I bet that he has his own story to tell, and I hope he's not a creep enough to tell his friends and relatives on facebook about his daughter's (step-daughter') worse moments or his bad marital moments either. My DH is a really sweet, shepherding personality, and a very upright man who tries to do what is right. But honestly, at 18 there were times when my son could push all of his buttons at once. Hard. I'm not sure I would want to be judging this situations, because I bet it's more complicated that it sounds. I'm not saying that I think kicking a cat isn't bad. I just think she needs to hire a professional and work with her husband or work on whether she wants to be with him, not display her dirty laundry for her friends or family to inspect. Edited January 6, 2011 by Danestress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Oh my, is this just me is this wrong on various levels? Surely there are time when a parent should apologize. But it sounds to me like there are some major issues in this family. Wives who want to honor their husbands don't seek comfort from people via facebook (even people they are family - it's not about FB). I tend to think that to be willing to talk about him this way, one would be halfway to divorce already, and then I would be suspicious about her motives for wanting to make him look bad. I have two sisters whom I am pretty close to. I would not be telling this story to either of them under any circumstances I can imagine. I would be telling my DH he needs counseling if I thought it were that bad, and kicking a cat seems pretty bad to me, if it's true. But unless I were seeking support because I needed to get out of the marriage, I would not be doing this to my husband. I bet that he has his own story to tell, and I hope he's not a creep enough to tell his friends and relatives on facebook about his daughter's (step-daughter') worse moments or his bad marital moments either. My DH is a really sweet, shepherding personality, and a very upright man who tries to do what is right. But honestly, at 18 there were times when my son could push all of his buttons at once. Hard. I'm not sure I would want to be judging this situations, because I bet it's more complicated that it sounds. I'm not saying that I think kicking a cat isn't bad. I just think she needs to hire a professional and work with her husband or work on whether she wants to be with him, not display her dirty laundry for her friends or family to inspect. Yeah - she would be better to go complain about kicking the cat on a message board where no one knows her or her dh in real life.;) As for wives who want to honor their dh's not talking to other people - you have never complained about something your dh did to another person? Wow. You are a way better wife than I am. Sometimes I just get all in a tizzy and fuss about my dh to a good friend. If I had a sister, I would fuss to her, too, if we were close. I imagine that dh does it about me sometimes, too. It doesn't mean we are halfway to divorce at all - just that we are human and sometimes seek people to side with us.;) I always compare a home where "people don't air the family's dirty laundry" as an abusive home. I always saw that as a big red flag that something was just not right because someone wanted to cover it up or didn't want others to know they were less than perfect. You have given me a new perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 But, the OP's family member clearly does not have a sweet, sheparding husband. Apples and oranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Why isn't someone more concerned with the VIOLENCE in the home?!?!? If he thinks it is okay to ASSAULT AN ANIMAL to 'demonstrate' that her raising her voice was wrong?!?!??!?! Words fail me. He needs help and a LOT of it. And she probably does, too, from having to live with someone like that. Ohmyword. :001_huh: ETA: Of course I've apologized to my kids. I'm not perfect! I am concerned with the violence (and that comes through many of my posts over the years). It just seemed that the violence was addressed often in the thread, so I just answered the opening question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 He snores. He leave his smelly workout clothes on the closet floor. He plays with his I-pad when I want his attention. I would not feel at all free to reveal a major failing like this one unless I were also willing to seek counseling and ask him to do the same. And I would TELL him, "I just really need to process this and I am going to talk to my sister about it." But you are right that in an abusive relationship, the desire to protect a spouse can become dangerous. If his relative is being abused, then she does need to reach out, but like I said, she's probably half way to divorce in that case, and even then, I think one has to be cautious and that a professional is probably better than a friend or even my sister. I also don't do it to my adult son - or try not to. Or my teen boys either. I just think that needing to "share" about how much of a jerk your son was makes your son look bad to others, and then they will remember that. It poisons the well. And they will judge him for it. Honestly, I did learn that the hard way. I really regret telling family when my son had some really bad moments. It feels good to share and to get "support" but in the long run, I am not sure it's good for a family. And on some level, it seems selfish - like my need to complain to my friends about how my son was a jerk trumps his right to not be talked about and put in a negative light without being part of the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Absolutely. But I think anyone who would kick a cat to make a point has some pretty big issues he needs to be dealing with. I don't apologize over every little thing, but all my children have received truly penitent apologies from this mom. As humans, they deserved them. As a human, I needed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 He kicked her cat?! I'm sorry you lost me there. What kind of a person kicks a cat to show his daughter how angry he is? He doesn't just need to apologize, he needs therapy. Yes, I apologize to my dc when I've done something wrong. I've told my DH to apologize at times. He does not know how to apologize. He's a "don't talk about it and forget it" type person. I'm trying to bring about a change in that respect. :iagree: People should apologize when they have wronged another regardless of their status as parent. Ideally the wife in this situation can rehome the husband and keep the children and cat. :iagree::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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