Should I force my 13ds to do dissection? He cries for the creatures.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Well, I bought the preserved specimens (earthworm, grasshopper, crayfish, and frog) for our biology study. We dissected the earthworm last week. Ds did really well with the dissection, sketching, and labeling, but cried at the end for the poor earthworm: "He didn't deserve this." :crying:

 

 

Today, we are supposed to dissect the grasshopper, but he cried at the thought (no wailing, but tears down his cheek). He says the grasshopper is cute. "Cute? It's a bug."(me) "All bugs are cute!"(him, crying)

 

He's always been sensitive like this. He used to cry when I'd flush a centipede we found in his room.

 

I suppose this may be the reason schools don't usually do dissection in 7th grade. Maybe I can keep them until high school. I wonder how long these preserved specimens will keep? Four years?

[NanceXToo]

I would never force anyone to do dissection.

[Mrs Mungo]

I made my dd do dissection. She didn't cry for the animals, but she did vomit when we did the fish. eta: She is in ninth grade.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Mrs Mungo

[Parrothead]

Virtual dissection is a wonderful thing. Google it. I found one for an eyeball, pig and earthworm without even trying.

[LidiyaDawn]

I would never force anyone to do dissection.

:iagree:

[Night Elf]

Ds14 will be doing Biology next year and we're going to use Froguts.

 

Dd12 is dropping her biology homeschool class. They dissected a grasshopper yesterday and she cried. I'm not going to make her go back. Thank goodness they have another class at the same time that is still biology based but it's forensics.

[Jean in Newcastle]

This says that the specimens can be stored almost indefinitely.

 

http://www.hometrainingtools.com/biology-dissection-kit/p/AM-KTDISS/

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Thanks everyone for your speedy replies! I'm relieved, actually. I'm glad I'm not alone in wanting to let him skip it for now. The virtual dissection idea is great. And, I'll keep these preserved specimens in a cool, dark place for a few more years.

 

Whew!

[Sputterduck]

I cried in the teacher's office when we had to dissect cats in AP Bio and refused to participate. Ugh. Bad memories. I'm all for virtual dissection!

[MamaSheep]

I'm having a similar dillemma. We're planning on doing biology for next year and were discussing the possibility of dissections yesterday. Ds13 (Mr. I Heart Gory Games) was horrified at the idea. Dd8 (Miss Prissy Oversensitive Drama Queen) LOVED the idea of cutting open dead creatures to see their insides, and the more the merrier. Since ds "thinks" he might want a career in some biological field I kind of feel like he should do at least one dissection. I remember being pretty hesitant myself back in high school, but we started with worms and worked our way up in complexity, and by the end I kind of even enjoyed it. Maybe he would too. On the other hand, I'm not sure it's the sort of thing I want to force him to do.

[Catherine]

The 13 yo couldn't go there.

 

I personally wouldn't force it.

[Wheres Toto]

I definitely think dissection is something that can wait until the mid-high school years. Whether you want to "force" it at that point depends on what your son is interested in doing. If he is interested in majoring or minoring in Biology in college, entering a medical or veterinary field - at some point he will need to do dissections. All my college biology for majors courses assumed some prior experience with dissection (I did worm and frog as a freshman in hs and cat as a junior).

[Crimson Wife]

I wouldn't attempt dissection before mid-HS and even then I'd allow virtual dissection if the student preferred.

[Medieval Mom]

I would never force anyone to do dissection.

 

:iagree:

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I'm having a similar dillemma. We're planning on doing biology for next year and were discussing the possibility of dissections yesterday. Ds13 (Mr. I Heart Gory Games) was horrified at the idea. Dd8 (Miss Prissy Oversensitive Drama Queen) LOVED the idea of cutting open dead creatures to see their insides, and the more the merrier. Since ds "thinks" he might want a career in some biological field I kind of feel like he should do at least one dissection. I remember being pretty hesitant myself back in high school, but we started with worms and worked our way up in complexity, and by the end I kind of even enjoyed it. Maybe he would too. On the other hand, I'm not sure it's the sort of thing I want to force him to do.

 

 

It's interesting how different kids are, huh?

 

I didn't do dissections until high school, though we did a chicken wing in middle school. I remember not wanting to eat chickens after that! :) I'm wondering if there might just be a difference between 13 and 16, kwim? Just because my 13yods cries now doesn't mean he'll still be as sensitive when he's older. I think I'm just gonna wait. If he goes to high school, he will do it there. If he's still home for high school, I'll make him do it then (10th or 11th grade).

[Skadi]

I think he needs to take a field trip to a family farm. His dinner was once "cute" too. 13 is way too old to be so irrationally sentimental. Just my honest opinion.

[hsbaby]

I wouldn't make my child do it if it were that upsetting. I remember being really upset about it in high school and my teacher let me write a paper instead. I was so relieved!!!

[LidiyaDawn]

I think he needs to take a field trip to a family farm. His dinner was once "cute" too. 13 is way too old to be so irrationally sentimental. Just my honest opinion.

 

 

I'm 33 and there's no way that I could ever participate in (or watch) the dissection of any creature.

 

I don't think it makes a person "irrational".

[twoxcell]

What about something like this? http://www.digitalfrog.com/store/product.php?productid=16147&cat=0&page=1

 

Yikes is it expensive though :001_huh:

[Night Elf]

I'm 33 and there's no way that I could ever participate in (or watch) the dissection of any creature.

 

I don't think it makes a person "irrational".

 

:iagree: and I'm 42. What a bizarre thought!

 

Oh, I'll add that dd12's intro to biology course asked her to catch flies and put them in a jar with nail polish remover. I was horrified! I don't care if they are just flies, that's as cruel as burning ants with a magnifying glass.

[mcconnellboys]

I thought my older son would love dissection. I got all the critters and I had to cut them all open and use my pointer to point out their parts while ds held his nose and grimmaced a bit at them. He was very sensitive to the smell.

 

Who knew? I mean, I knew my kids were finnicky about textures in foods, and the way clothes feel; but I never realized smells really got to them, too.... I guess it should have been a clue when he couldn't pass the fishing pin in Cub Scouts because he just about passed out when we tried to get him to clean the fish he'd caught....

 

My younger son is so empathetic towards animals that he didn't want to continue with his 4-H entomology collection after the first year. He bemoaned those insects we took for the first year collection....

 

When my older son returned to high school, I found out that many schools now don't count biology as a "lab" scienc and don't do dissection in that class. Only those students who take anatomy class do dissection. And there's a lot of debate now about whether dissections should be done at all when there are such good virtual dissections available. So, thus far, I've skipped it with my younger son. If he stays on a math/science track then he can do anatomy in high school....

[NanceXToo]

I'm 33 and there's no way that I could ever participate in (or watch) the dissection of any creature.

 

I don't think it makes a person "irrational".

 

:iagree: and I'm 42. What a bizarre thought

 

Yeah, uh, I'm not getting the 'irrational' connection either. I'm 37 and I wouldn't want to dissect something- and while I'm not a vegetarian, I would not personally be able to kill the food I eat; nor would I want to watch it happen.

 

If a child- no, a PERSON of ANY age- doesn't want to dissect, kill or otherwise personally harm another living creature, they shouldn't have to. Period.

[Tullia]

I wouldn't force the issue. My son objected, so I bought a couple of books on microscopy and he focused on learning how to prepare his own slides of plant life and pond water which was a lot more fun than just buying ready-made. FWIW, I refused to take biology in high school because dissection was required so I was sympathetic to my son. Your son might change his mind as he gets older...or not. Unless he intends to go into a medical field it shouldn't be a problem. So far, not having dissected animal specimens hasn't caused either of us any problems--in spite of some dire predictions that crossed the line into bullying from my high school guidance counselor.

[MamaSheep]

I think he needs to take a field trip to a family farm. His dinner was once "cute" too. 13 is way too old to be so irrationally sentimental. Just my honest opinion.

 

I don't know about 13 being too old, but largely I'm with you on this. But then I was raised in the wilderness (Yellowstone Park) by two people who grew up on farms. I visited my grandpa's farm regularly growing up. Animals are not nearly so "cute" or "noble" once you've dwelt in their midst for a while...lol. Some days I want a t-shirt that says something like, "Preditor, and proud of it." Now, just as a disclaimer, I also don't think animals should be mistreated or slaughtered haphazardly just for the "joy" of killing. But I am of the opinion that using animals responsibly for food and education is fine.

 

(And for those of you who disagree, I do respect your opinion and your right to believe as you want. Kindly have the same respect for me and my opinion. Thanks. :grouphug:)

[Heatherwith4]

I wouldn't force anyone to dissect something. I don't think for one second not wanting to dissect something makes you 'irrational.' I also don't think there's anything wrong with using animals responsibly for education and food.

[simka2]

I would! But I am weird like that ;). I have talked with the kids at length about some of the things I disected in Nursing School. Not to mention the things I have had them "look" at when I was managing the stable.

 

They have had to dig into giant pus filled wounds with sponges soaked in betadine. When we have found dead things we will try to talk about and discover why it died. I really haven't insulated them from anything, except the animal sacrifices we have found. Those are harder to explain :glare:

[simka2]

I think he needs to take a field trip to a family farm. His dinner was once "cute" too. 13 is way too old to be so irrationally sentimental. Just my honest opinion.

 

:iagree:I definately have to agree, although my heart goes out to this boy. I think it is something he should go thru. Can he get out of it....sure, but I don't know that that is what is best for him.

 

It reminds of a ride we took with the kids checking fences at the farm where are horses are kept. We came across and older cow who was definately in distress. The young girl with us (15) just looked at my kids and said, "I'll have to tell my dad and he will come out and shoot her." There was a little shock in the kids eyes, but then the whole ride back she (15 year old here) told them about the wonderful life she had had, pointed out 3 of her previous babies. It was a great learning/reality experience. Now when the farm dogs started bring up some bones...eeeeewwww. But they knew right away what it was. ;)

[hillfarm]

IMO, in middle school dissections should still be optional. If your student isn't ready, then they're not ready. However, if they are extremely emotional about it, then I would slowly explore with them the fact that unless they are vegetarian, some animal had to die for their dinner. Also, even if they are vegetarian, you would be shocked at how many creatures - both vertebrate and invertebrate - die every time a field is plowed to grow more vegetables and grains. If they wear leather, then an animal died in that process. (And I'm not sure, but is Jello still an animal based product or have they found some kind of synthetic substitute?)

 

By mid high school, most people who are ever going to be able to handle a dissection are ready by then. Would it help any to dissect fresh road kill, since you would know the animal was not killed for the purpose of your education? If that wouldn't work, there are always the virtual models. If your student is not planning to major in the biological or medical sciences, then IMO, they don't need to have such an up close and personal knowledge of muscles and organs.

 

OTOH, my daughter probably represents the complete opposite extreme. She assisted with her first necropsy when she was 6yo. A friend's goat died after a short illness and we needed to know why so we could help her treat the rest of the flock if it was something contagious. (Dd also learned a great deal about universal precautions with that one.) No tears were shed. The goat had died and we needed to be detectives to find out why and whether that endangered the others.

 

A bit off subject...when dd was 7, another homeschool mom told me that word around the hs community was that my dd was very popular with the boys. I gulped for air as she explained. Her ears perked up right away and she investigated for me. One young guy told her that the reason my dd was so popular was that she was not afraid to bait her own hook and that she would poke dead things with sticks. Apparently among the 7yo crowd, that qualifies a girl as a real hot ticket!:D

[Jamee]

My boys have a great respect for animals and nature in general too. I am not allowed to kill any bugs in the house. However, they also have a huge fascination as well and realize that to survive some animals do consume other animals. So, yes they "protect nature" and let bugs go, but some of these bugs also become lunch for their "pet bugs." (This is especially so of the mantis we've had for a couple weeks now and that they do feed regularly.)

 

I look forward to doing dissection with them later this year, but no one should be forced and I would think this especially so before high school. We didn't do individual dissection in middle school, but watched as the teacher did so on some smaller animals--right now I only recall a squid. However, once in high school, we dissected the lowly sponge all the way up to a fetal pig. I'm actually shocked that biology wouldn't be considered a "lab" science anymore and that's such a shame.

 

Hope you are able to reach a resonable solution for this.

[IsabelC]

Sure his reaction might be irrational, but who is totally rational? Especially at 13? When I was at high-school we didn't do any dissection until about grade 10 or 11, and even then it was an optional activity [shrug]

I'd just explain how you expect the dissection to aid his understanding, and then offer a choice between that and an alternative option (making sure, or course, that the alternative is equivalent or even a little harder work).

[Murphy101]

:iagree:I definately have to agree, although my heart goes out to this boy. I think it is something he should go thru. Can he get out of it....sure, but I don't know that that is what is best for him.

 

It reminds of a ride we took with the kids checking fences at the farm where are horses are kept. We came across and older cow who was definately in distress. The young girl with us (15) just looked at my kids and said, "I'll have to tell my dad and he will come out and shoot her." There was a little shock in the kids eyes, but then the whole ride back she (15 year old here) told them about the wonderful life she had had, pointed out 3 of her previous babies. It was a great learning/reality experience. Now when the farm dogs started bring up some bones...eeeeewwww. But they knew right away what it was. ;)

 

:iagree:

[EKS]

I honestly don't think a study of modern biology needs to include dissection.

[Catwoman]

Just because my 13yods cries now doesn't mean he'll still be as sensitive when he's older. I think I'm just gonna wait. If he goes to high school, he will do it there. If he's still home for high school, I'll make him do it then (10th or 11th grade).

 

I'm glad you decided to wait.

 

In reality, unless he wants to pursue a career in medicine, there may never be a reason to force him to dissect anything. Some people are just very squeamish about that sort of thing, and to force them to do it seems cruel.

 

It can be hard enough for some people to watch a video of something like that, let alone having to actually do it themselves.

 

I had a friend who was forced to dissect a frog in our freshman year of high school, and many years later, it still creeped her out to think of it. She'd had nightmares about it at the time and everything -- and this girl was no wimp. She was also the captain of two sports teams and could out-wrestle her big varsity wrestler brothers!

 

Cat

[stripe]

I passed on the one and only dissection my school had, of a frog, in 9th grade biology.

 

That being said, why not buy a whole chicken (or other bird) or a fish and "dissect" it? You could learn about cooking at the same time. Why does the animal have to be tossed in the trash? I think a bird/fish is probably more realistic than, say, a deer, but if you know any hunters...

[AuntieM]

I haven't read all the replies, but for hands-on dissection experience, you can have him dissect a flower. A big one, like a lily, will give him lots of parts to view and label.

 

For the other things, the virtual dissections are fine, I think. If these are difficult for him, I wouldn't force it now. But I would push for at least one good animal dissection before high school graduation.

[Mejane]

I think dissection has been made obsolete by technology. Imo, there is no reason to do it if a child is sickened by or sensitive to it. (They're probably not going to become a surgeon in this case anyway. ;)) I rest assured that neither of my kids has missed anything by not hacking up a worm or a frog. Ymmv.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Mejane

[happi duck]

I would never force anyone to do dissection.

:iagree:

[zaichiki]

I think he needs to take a field trip to a family farm. His dinner was once "cute" too. 13 is way too old to be so irrationally sentimental. Just my honest opinion.

 

 

I dunno. We LIVE on a family farm and have raised our own animals for meat and my ds is STILL "irrationally sentimental." Dd, on the other hand, would love to do dissections. I think some kids are just made more sensitive than others.

[zaichiki]

for hands-on dissection experience, you can have him dissect a flower. A big one, like a lily, will give him lots of parts to view and label.

 

What a great idea! I'm going to steal this one for our study on plants. Thanks! :001_smile:

[StephanieZ]

I wouldn't force it. Move on to something else.

[Heather in OK]

I wasn't able to do it when I was in high school. *shiver* The teacher offered an alternate assignment for those who chose not to dissect.

 

In the years since, I've never needed to know what the inside of a frog looks like.

[Nakia]

I went through middle school, high school, and nursing school without dissecting anything (I did alternate assignments). There was just no way I could do it, and I don't expect my kids to. No one ever forced me (or tried to), and I would never force my children to do it. If they want to when they are older, I will gladly order the stuff, and I will leave while they have at it.

[Rebel]

I would wait a couple of years to see if he can handle it then. As long as he doesn't want to pursue biology in college, he can get by with virtual dissections.

 

Just an fyi though, many bio college classes do still use dissections. I'm getting a M.S. in Biology right now and can think of at least 5 courses off the top of my head which either involve dissection, handling preserved organs, or necropsys. Additionally, in most of the research involving smaller animals, the animals are killed at the end of the project. The term, "sacrificed" is what you will see in grants.

[Lizzie in Ma]

My oldest wants to be a nurse, so yes, I would make her. In fact we will be coming up on it shortly in BJU Biology.

My younger is highly sensitive and wants to be an engineer so absolutely not. She cried the other day at the 99 when we were talking about biology class and my mom mentioned she had dissected a guinea pig in college. Tear just started pouring down her face.

I am not sure she could even handle virtual dissection.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

My seven year old sobbed for days when we found a dead mouse on the driveway, and was also distraught when he read that his pet goldfish probably can't remember him, so I'm doubting that he will be much into dissection when the time comes. Thank goodness for the sensitive ones who remind us that all life is precious and valuable!

[Joy at Home]

I think he needs to take a field trip to a family farm. His dinner was once "cute" too. 13 is way too old to be so irrationally sentimental. Just my honest opinion.

 

 

Completely disagree, and I would definitely not force it. Virtual disections or watching a video disection would be fine, but honestly I'm not even sure it's really even necessary. I was a science major and really felt like disection did not do much to further my knowledge at all.

 

I don't think he's being "irrational" at all. We all see things differently. My dd9 is very, very sensitive to animals. She cried at the pet store when she saw a snake eat it's "dinner" . No way am I going to have her disect anything if she's not into it. The family farm analogy doesn't work here - knowing something happens does not mean you have to watch or participate in it.

[Nan in Mass]

Please, please don't force him to do this. There are plenty of ways to get all the way through college without doing any dissections, and they improve every year.

-Nan

[stripe]

The family farm analogy doesn't work here - knowing something happens does not mean you have to watch or participate in it.

And might backfire? I know people who are vegetarian or nearly so, or don't eat the particular animal they witnessed slaughtered, even under fairly humane conditions. Most American adults eat meat presented very clinically -- a lump on a styrofoam plate, not something with feet, feathers, or eyes. So I don't think it's worth singling out children for a "reality check." Most adults are far removed from the slaughterhouses and processing factories from which most Americans' meat comes from. I think everyone has a case of "not wanting to know."

 

I still think a "dissection" of an animal intended to be eaten would be educational in both anatomical and culinary arenas, but I never believed that a 13 year old investigating a fetal pig would lead to any scientific discoveries. I was the only member of my class to research frog anatomy in the library; apparently my classmates waved a lot of dead frog legs at each other.

[TheCoffeeChick]

I agree with not forcing it --- some people JUST. DON'T. LIKE. THAT.

 

I absolutely loved life science in 8th grade - we dissected an earthworm, a frog, a squid, and a pig fetus. It was awesome! My dad was a hunter and I always helped butcher the deer each year. We'd make the best jerky with it.

 

On the flipside, my dh can't even stand to see raw meat before he eats it, let alone cut up an animal. He won't eat meat with the bone in it either. It makes him squeemish.

 

To each his own ... dissection isn't one of those required skills in life. ;)

 

(I do hope my kiddos want to do some dissecting in high school though -- I think it is so cool to see how bodies work!)

[Farmgirl70]

I'd wait. Most people don't do dissections so young. Last year I planned on having my then 16 yo and 15 yo do dissections along with another friend who was 15 yo. As it turned out, none of them (including my science enthusiast) wanted to do the actual dissecting. So, as it turned out I did most of the cutting most of the year. Now, I had really disliked dissections when I was in high school, but I had to be a good example and all. I was really surprised that my squeamishness went away pretty quickly. I think it is fascinating to see how things really look and feel inside rather than just see pictures of them. The kids were content to make sketches for the most part, but I am happy that they got to actually see the real thing. In looking they also forgot the squeamishness in their fascination. Toward the end of the year, they did participate in some dissecting themselves. Not that you have to ever dissect, but even in the realm of dissecting there are a lot of ways it can be accomplished!