Is it unfair to my current children to have more children?

[Ibbygirl]

:D Sorry! It was an excellent fridge worthy post.

 

hehehehehehe No worries. :) I don't care who does it as long as it gets done. :D hehe

[Farmgirl70]

All I can say is that I'm glad my parents kept going. I'm #6 and the last birth child. My parents later adopted 3 more who had been foster children whose parents gave them up later. I love my siblings and my mom told me this year that she's glad she had so many kids because lots of people look out for her now. She's not often lonely.

[Audrey]

 

Well, you must not have read all of my posts about my oldest to think that my family is perfect. But ig you see it that way, thank you, that's quite a compliment.

 

My point was that you were/are doing the same thing you so rudely accused elegantlion of doing -- you jump into these threads vociferously defending your family choices just as you claim she did. You also, in essence, told her to butt out and shut up. The same could easily be said to you, and you surely would not like it, so why do you feel that you have the right to police the posting parameters of others?

[Free]

HOwever, I think it is only moral to consider seriously the financial and energy costs of additional children before having them.

 

Thank you for saying this. I feel so happy to finally see such a view being expressed on this board.

[Mrs Mungo]

So let me get this straight...one should only have another child IF:

 

-they don't depend on much, if any help from from the older siblings.

-they don't have to compromise outside activities or extra curriculars at all.

-they never depend on the government, family, or anything or anyone else to help, ever, in any situation (especially if they already have 3+, with 2 or less this is probably acceptable)

-they don't have a high-maintenance or special needs child

-they are not poor (does that mean they should make at least $7,000 per family member? $10,000? what constitutes poor when we are all pretty much talking about one of the richest countries in the world?)

-ideally they should be able to maintain a best friendship with each one of their children

-obviously, no smoking, heavy drinking or drugs

 

Am I missing anything?

 

We have 6 and we take better care of them than most families I know with 2, IMO. We may or may not have more, it is a decision I am currently agonizing over. It is something we do NOT take lightly and we are certainly not in this for some sort of competition. :glare: But I do think it's a bit ridiculous to have all of these qualities one should meet before having children. How many people who complain about their large families wouldn't be here if their parents hadn't had a large family? How many would complain no matter what kind of family they grew up in?

 

My mom talks about how hard and terrible it was for my great grandmother who had 7. She goes on and on about how she had heart problems, didn't care for my grandmother, died early, etc. The thing is, my grandmother was #7.

 

You know...I don't see anyone saying this here. I see people explaining how they made their own choices and why. I see people expressing doubts about certain types of parents they know IRL. But, I do not see people judging your choices here. There is a lot of defensiveness in your post, which seems misdirected.

 

We stopped at three. Finances were part of that decision. We do intend to help with college. We received little help, and it was HARD. It is getting harder to do on your own all the time. College played a factor in OUR decision, but that doesn't mean I judge you for not making the same choice. I DO think it is foolish not to consider the financials, the mother's health, known health isssues in other kids (I have one with health issues) and so forth. But if you make a different decision, then that is *your* choice.

[I.Dup.]

You know...I don't see anyone saying this here. I see people explaining how they made their own choices and why. I see people expressing doubts about certain types of parents they know IRL. But, I do not see people judging your choices here. There is a lot of defensiveness in your post, which seems misdirected.

 

We stopped at three. Finances were part of that decision. We do intend to help with college. We received little help, and it was HARD. It is getting harder to do on your own all the time. College played a factor in OUR decision, but that doesn't mean I judge you for not making the same choice. I DO think it is foolish not to consider the financials, the mother's health, known health isssues in other kids (I have one with health issues) and so forth. But if you make a different decision, then that is *your* choice.

 

There may have been defensiveness in my post, but it wasn't so much directed at anyone here. Maybe I was going off on a bit of a tangent, but at least it was related to the general idea of the post so please give me that. I'm not the first poster here to post passionately about something. :tongue_smilie:

 

The general mindset that is so prevalent in our culture that everything must be squared away and in tip top shape to "responsibly" bring another baby into a family is what bothers me just a bit. I do respect and can understand everyone's thoughts on this. Some people feel they can't handle more than 1 or 2, or don't want to, or have extenuating circumstances, or whatever else and that is okay.

 

I just wish more people could look at large families and think that's okay, too. I often feel we have to be put under a microscope or have ultra high standards, higher than everyone else, and that just gets wearying at times. Sometimes I do get defensive. We're all trying to do the best we can.

[Ibbygirl]

There may have been defensiveness in my post, but it wasn't so much directed at anyone here. Maybe I was going off on a bit of a tangent, but at least it was related to the general idea of the post so please give me that. I'm not the first poster here to post passionately about something. :tongue_smilie:

 

The general mindset that is so prevalent in our culture that everything must be squared away and in tip top shape to "responsibly" bring another baby into a family is what bothers me just a bit. I do respect and can understand everyone's thoughts on this. Some people feel they can't handle more than 1 or 2, or don't want to, or have extenuating circumstances, or whatever else and that is okay.

 

I just wish more people could look at large families and think that's okay, too. I often feel we have to be put under a microscope or have ultra high standards, higher than everyone else, and that just gets wearying at times. Sometimes I do get defensive. We're all trying to do the best we can.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Mrs Mungo]

There may have been defensiveness in my post, but it wasn't so much directed at anyone here. Maybe I was going off on a bit of a tangent, but at least it was related to the general idea of the post so please give me that. I'm not the first poster here to post passionately about something. :tongue_smilie:

 

Like I said, it just felt misdirected. :) it felt directed at people who had mentioned those reasons, but I didn't get the sense that any of those people were judging bigger families for making different choices.

 

The general mindset that is so prevalent in our culture that everything must be squared away and in tip top shape to "responsibly" bring another baby into a family is what bothers me just a bit. I do respect and can understand everyone's thoughts on this. Some people feel they can't handle more than 1 or 2, or don't want to, or have extenuating circumstances, or whatever else and that is okay.

 

And I agree that it isn't always possible. You never know what the future will bring.

 

I just wish more people could look at large families and think that's okay, too. I often feel we have to be put under a microscope or have ultra high standards, higher than everyone else, and that just gets wearying at times. Sometimes I do get defensive. We're all trying to do the best we can.

 

I know families that are amazing, large and small. I know families that are a hot mess, large and small. When a hot mess family (large or small) announces another baby on the way? I do cringe a little because there are already bad dynamics at play. But, that doesn't mean I think everything should or can be *perfect*, in any family. And, like Tibbie said, I would never outwardly criticize them.

 

Eta: I have also known a family where the mom was SO overwhelmed, did not want more kids, but the dad kept pressuring and pressuring. Whenever *she* announced a pregnancy? There was a sort of crackle of disapproval among people they knew. But, it was because people knew the score and felt badly for her. I think some of the other posters who know people involved with certain groups have probably seen the same. But, none of that has anything to do with *you* or the OP or moms like the two of you.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[I.Dup.]

I understand.

[Ibbygirl]

LOL at the messy fridge tag :lol: and can I just say Mrs. Mungo, that when I grow up I want to be able to say what I think so clearly and succinctly like you do. :) You rock lady! :thumbup:

[Denisemomof4]

Here's what having an only child guarantees:

Nothing.

 

Here's what having many children guarantees:

Nothing.

 

Parenting is a freaking crapshoot. You can do it all 'right' and have a kid/kids that act like they were raised by trolls. You can screw up royally, be sure in your gut your kid is going to end up needing heavy duty therapy just to function on a most basic level, and end up w/a heavy over acheiver, perfectly adjusted, no trauma, no emotionally scarred kid.

 

You could end up close...or estranged.

 

You do your best, you pray (if that's your thing) and hope for the best.

 

There's no guarantees in life, and in parenting that's a promise. If you're thinking that family size has ANYTHING to do w/a guarantee of anything, brace yourself.

 

Families don't come w/guarantees, warranties, exchange policies.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:100%.

[Plucky]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:100%.

 

Can I just add that I think loving and good parenting does increase good outcomes? It isn't a guarantee but I think it helps!

[Denisemomof4]

Can I just add that I think loving and good parenting does increase good outcomes? It isn't a guarantee but I think it helps!

 

It ABSOLUTELY helps, and it is absolutely not a guarantee. :sad:

[Heather in Neverland]

I think parenting should be the next Olympic sport. Parenting is SO competitive... The least they can do is offer medals. :glare:

 

Of course there would have to be different divisions. You know, like:

 

The selfish mom with only one child division

The irresponsible mom with too many kids division

The selfish working mom division

The lazy SAHM division

The twisted extended breast feeding mom division

The uneducated bottle feeding mom division

 

Did I miss any? :tongue_smilie:

[Laura Corin]

Well I will hold an unpopular view on this board, though I do know some people here who share my sentiments. I don't think it is necessarily unfair to the other children if you have more since no one guarantees anyone a wealthy upbringing or even a middle income upbringing. HOwever, I think it is only moral to consider seriously the financial and energy costs of additional children before having them. I do not hold with the popular, on here, view that seems to be have all the kids you want and things will work out. I know many here and ones I know IRL do consider can they care adequately for addiitional children. But some here and IRL are only able to care for their families with others help, be it government, relatives or charity. I think that is a highly irresponsible view and don't endorse it at all. However, the things I think the OP should consider is not about whether they will be able to buy cars or pay for college but whether things like necessary orthodontics, potential medical bills for either the older children who may develop a condition that is costly if you don't have insurance or very good insurance or the potential costs of a baby who is born prematurely and needs lots of medical care.

 

We stopped at the number that we thought we could take care of properly. If number 2 had been disabled, for example, we thought we could have managed caring for them both. If a potential number 3 had been disabled, we didn't trust ourselves to have the financial and personal resources to cope.

 

Laura

[stripe]

The general mindset that is so prevalent in our culture that everything must be squared away and in tip top shape to "responsibly" bring another baby into a family is what bothers me just a bit. I do respect and can understand everyone's thoughts on this. Some people feel they can't handle more than 1 or 2, or don't want to, or have extenuating circumstances, or whatever else and that is okay.

 

In all honesty, I have a hard time believing this is the mindset, when about half of American pregnancies are unplanned.

 

I do think people should think before, during, and after getting pregnant, about what they are doing and how to improve their family life, but I honestly see a lot of people -- including married people, mind you -- getting pregnant because they don't seem to understand basic biology. In fact, reading the recent stuff about this Akin character, there seem to be quite a few people who think a woman's "juices" need to be flowing for her to get pregnant. I've met a lot of people who are shocked that their unprotected, multiple sex acts led to pregnancy, simply because they didn't "mean" to get pregnant. Again, these are married people who already have kids, and already had one or more accidental pregnancies.

 

I certainly think one should consider the impact of one's life on the planet, but I see nothing special that ONLY large families need do so. Small families in the US use vastly more energy and resources than giant families elsewhere, including our "need" to live with only members of our immediate family. I think a lot of people may target large families for scrutiny as a way to pass the buck on thinking about their own lives.

[Mommyfaithe]

Never ask "friends" their opinion of your life choices. How does your dh feel? How do your kids feel?

 

There came a time in my life when it was time for me to stop having more children. That time is not going o be the same for you, or my sister, or my best friend.

 

If you want a baby, and dh wants a baby.....who the heck cares what anyone else thinks?

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

[momma2three]

I think parenting should be the next Olympic sport. Parenting is SO competitive... The least they can do is offer medals. :glare:

 

Of course there would have to be different divisions. You know, like:

 

The selfish mom with only one child division

The irresponsible mom with too many kids division

The selfish working mom division

The lazy SAHM division

The twisted extended breast feeding mom division

The uneducated bottle feeding mom division

 

Did I miss any? :tongue_smilie:

 

:lol:

 

It would get plenty of sponsorship, that's for certain. The media seems to LOVE perpetuating all these stereotypes.

[Mommyfaithe]

Maybe you need new friends.

 

:iagree:

[Mommyfaithe]

My husband thinks I need new friends he told he the same thing last night.

 

Smart man. Listen to him. :D

[Katy]

I haven't read all the replies, but I think it's selfish to value luxuries (cars, education) over people.

 

Also, unless you'd be earning an equal amount of money or more to your husband, your income and the additional taxes and daycare expenses, etc wouldn't be worth it. I suspect your "friends" feel guilty that they choose luxuries first, and knowing they are rather hollow, decided to lay all their guilt on you.

 

Have more kids. Get new friends.

[Impish]

Can I just add that I think loving and good parenting does increase good outcomes? It isn't a guarantee but I think it helps!

of course it helps, if for no other reason than being able to sleep at night.

 

Children aren't plants. They *need* love, attention, nurturing, guidance.

 

BUT, I can't think I'm alone, in knowing families that seemingly did it 'all right', have 2 fantastic, wonderful kids, and one that is totally off the rails. Or whatever ratio.

 

Parenting is one of the few aspects of life that you can work your butt off, and yet have things turn out completely opposite than what you've attempted. Careers, generally speaking (not talking layoffs, things out of a person's control) if you work your butt off, you succeed. You don't get fired or a demotion when you've worked hard, done 'everything' right.

 

Parenting is a gamble. Doing your best is the RIGHT thing to do, and a way to stack the cards in your kid's favour. Doesn't *always* work, in that there's no promise as to how your child will turn out, but it beats the alternative.

[VeritasMama]

How can anyone know how many kids is too many for anyone else? I can't fathom telling anyone how many kids they should have, other than to tell this them to do what they think is right. If you want more, go for it. Only you and your husband can tell if it is right for your family, regardless of how many outsiders think they can make that judgement. No one should be telling anyone how many kids to have, either more or less, period.

 

Some of our college friends and cousins have just started having kids. They are stopping at one or two because they dont think they can give more children than that enough attention. I respect their decision, even when they frame their argument in such a way that suggests that my decision to have a lot of children is actually selfish and my children are deprived. I know it is not the case, but the tendency to judge other people based on yourself or your own personal experiences astounds me. After all, I actually had a small family and then a large family, I 've been a full time working mom and am now a SAHM, I've breastfed and bottle fed, my kids go to school and homeschool, I've seen both sides of every fence. It is always so funny to get a parenting diatribe from a friend with only one child telling me what the right thing to do is as if they have experienced everything and know all there is to know and I could use their wisdom :). I find what they are doing is trying to justify their own decisions to me, as if I actually have an opinion about their family size :confused:

[Runnermom]

I know that I'm not much of a regular poster but I still wanted to share my opinion, despite the fact that it may be unpopular. I agree that no one has any business to tell someone how many children they should have. Where I struggle with this is that I know many moms in my homeschool groups that have the 'we are going to have as many kids as the Lord allows mentality' yet I am always hearing about their financial woes and how alot of them are on some sort of a financial assistance (yet the government takes half of my husband's hard earned salary to help pay for these things- don't get me started on that!). I realize this is not the case for everyone but it just happens to be that way in our area.

 

There are lots of reasons we chose to keep our family small - one of them being that when it comes time to go to college, we would like to be able to help them. Yes, they could potentially get scholarships but that's not always a reality and I don't want them to leave school with a mountain of debt (something both my husband and I had to deal with when we graduated). I know that a lot of people don't want to talk about the financial aspects of having large families but they are there whether you want to discuss it or not. Again, this is just my opinion.

[Slipper]

I didn't read the other replies, but I wanted to mention two lovely quotes about children.

 

There is one attributed to Mother Teresa (sp?) saying something to the effect that having too many children is like having too many flowers. :)

 

The subject came up recently with our 11 yr old. We would love more kids ( we have 3) but probably won't have more. Her opinion? "Three is for quitters". ;)

[amy g.]

I consider my family large. I consider my children hardworking, but I certainly know children from smaller families who are much more so.

 

My son lives a very privileged life. His best friend is one of 3 children, but his parents don't let him stay up until 4:00 am playing on the computer. Both boys just got home from a 10 day sailing trip. My son's friend had to earn the money for the trip. We just wrote a check for our son. It isn't that they couldn't afford to do the same, they just value hard work.

 

Ds teases that maybe his friend will hire him when they grow up. They are taking a community college class together this fall. I imagine my son will be too embarrassed by his freind's diligence to put of assignments until the last minute. It should be interesting to see what he learns.

 

As far as older siblings raising younger ones, I have mixed feelings about that. My mother only had 3 children, but I raised my brother because she was just never stable enough to take care of him.

 

I did not have a choice.

 

I was only 12 when he was born, but the other adults were so drunk that they were burning him with bathwater, leaving him unattended in the tub, or worse the street.

 

Who is going to say that leading a normal childhood matters more that the safety of a helpless child? Not me.

 

I look back on the time when I was raising him as one of the highlights of my entire life. I feel so honored that God allowed us to have each other. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

 

My older girls take care of my younger girls A LOT. The difference is that they have a choice. Everyday they CHOOSE to spend time together doing chores, or sewing doll clothes, or cooking supper or reading books.

 

This morning, Miss Good told me that she is so tired because Miss Bossy woke up at 1:00 am wanting to read A Wrinkle In Time. "I'll never not read to her." she told me.

 

We know what a blessing these children are, and none of us want to miss one second of this special time with them. It will be over too soon, no matter what we do.

 

Wonderful families come in all different sizes. Children from small families are not always slackers, and children from large families are not always over worked.

 

Here is to all of the beautiful hive families, no matter how large or small!

[swellmomma]

I have not read all the replies yet I wanted to get my thoughts out first.

 

Given your situation, of being able to comfortably provide for your family I do not think it is unfair to the other kids. If your health or emotional needs were compromised. If you financially could not care for the ones you have. If any of your 4 had significant special needs. etc *then* I would say it would be unfair.

 

If someone in my situation had more kids it would be unfair to the ones here because we are already stretched too thin in finances, mental health, patience etc.

 

If you can provide your children a happy, healthy, stable home than do what you want as far as having more kids, and tell everyone else to butt out. Until they are raising your kids for you they have no say in the situation.

[kroe1]

I am sorry that you are struggling with this dilemma.

 

But, generally speaking, it is a great question we all must answer at some point. And the answer will be different for each of us.

 

My own personal qualifications for my own motherhood were:

 

1. Adequate time for each kiddo.

2. A first car

3. A wedding (one only)

4. A college education

 

If I could meet these needs, then for me, I could have as many kiddos as I wanted. Therefore, that meant I only had 2 kiddos, twenty years apart. My other choices in life would never have allowed adequate time for another kiddo.

 

So be it. I hope you find peace with whatever decision you make, and that you have no regrets later.

 

:)

[justamouse]

My point was that you were/are doing the same thing you so rudely accused elegantlion of doing -- you jump into these threads vociferously defending your family choices just as you claim she did. You also, in essence, told her to butt out and shut up. The same could easily be said to you, and you surely would not like it, so why do you feel that you have the right to police the posting parameters of others?

 

...but the post was about multiple children...and the thoughts off adding more...

 

I didn't tell her to butt out and shut up, not at all. I pointed to her snark. And, I truly like and respect her, and I think she knows that, so I hoped that my comment wouldn't come off as a smack down.

 

We see it differently.

 

Pax.

[elegantlion]

...but the post was about multiple children...and the thoughts off adding more...

 

I didn't tell her to butt out and shut up, not at all. I pointed to her snark. And, I truly like and respect her, and I think she knows that, so I hoped that my comment wouldn't come off as a smack down.

 

We see it differently.

 

Pax.

 

Okay, here's what it did, if you want the truth and then I'm not mentioning it again. My life is messed up, truly, I have very little I am happy with right now. The last decade of my life has been one trial after another and I'm just done with so much of it. Family size and homeschooling are two areas where I feel like I'm doing something right.

 

It's been a horrid week, including the fact 3 blocks away a father and two children died in weird house fire when there was no visible damage to the outside of the house. I didn't know them, but we watched the emergency services there for over 4 hours, not knowing what happened until the next day, but we knew someone had died. So I'm treasuring my child a little closer this week.

 

It did feel like a smack down to me, but that's really not your issue. I'm overly sensitive in general and I'm very sensitive this week for the above and few other things I'm not mentioning online. I don't know how you feel about me in general, so to get reprimanded for expressing joy in the one thing I feeling like I do right left me in tears. Again, it's MY sensitivity, not YOUR words. It's how *I* took them, and I take responsibility for that. I'm done with this topic, I have to go back to the school table now.

[Mimm]

I don't know. Since I've become acquainted with several QF/Gothard/ATI families who each have 8-12 children and are all struggling with neglect of those children, wanted and beloved as the children are, I have kind of lost my sense of perspective about this topic. I do think a family can have too many children.

 

When a teenaged girl is taking care of five children under the age of 6 all day, also cooking and cleaning, while being functionally illiterate or unable to multiply two numbers together, and Mom keeps having a baby every year, something's wrong.

 

When the children go without necessary health care and have to suffer physically or run terrible risks because the family can't afford doctors, but Mom keeps having a baby every year, something's wrong.

 

When the children are neglected and abused because of the parents' ideology about child-rearing, there can be such a thing as a family with too many children.

 

The sticky thing is, almost nobody can really look into someone else's family and home and declare with any authority that they should stop having children. Sometimes it's obvious, but in all the cases I know of where there is abuse and neglect, the outside world is still shown a very pretty picture. Someone has to get very intimate with the family to know if the children aren't fed enough or if the daughters are over-worked and not educated.

 

So that's why I am glad to side, as always, with Miss Manners, who says that there is only one correct response to any pregnancy announcement, and that is, "Congratulations!"

 

That's what I always say, and otherwise keep my mouth shut. I really don't see how anyone with decent manners could do otherwise.

 

If there's abuse, report it.

If there's neglect borne of ignorance, step in and teach.

If there's just a different lifestyle but the kids are OK, then MYOB.

 

That's my philosophy, which should wear well whether I'm down on mega-sized families or not.

 

:iagree:

 

I wasn't raised in quite so bad a situation but I was the oldest girl of many. I changed too many diapers, got up with babies in the middle of the night, cooked dinners, taught children how to read, all at way too young an age. When I see people ask questions like, "Is is selfish to have more kids?" My immediate thought is, "Yes, it CAN be." I'm sorry if the OP (and others) doesn't like children being seen as burdens but they ARE. That's not all they are, but there is a financial cost, a physical cost and a time cost and denying that doesn't do anyone any favors. Each child added to the family is less for the children that are there. Sometimes that's worth it. In most families it is. I'm not saying no one should ever have more than one child. :) But that ideally, each child that is added to the family would not cost so much as to take away too much from the children that are there already. I DO believe that parents have an obligation to the children they already have in their homes. Not to pay for college or buy them cars and ipods and such, but to make sure that they, the parents, can handle all the children in their house without shoving the responsibilities onto their oldest children. To make sure that the parents can spend lots of time with each child.

 

And to the OP... My mother envisioned those Christmases where all of her children would flock to her house with her grandchildren and we'd have a wonderful time. The reality is quite different. I have two kids, my sister has one, and none of my other siblings has any. No one plans to have many children, if any at all. And we don't go home for Christmas. Everyone comes to my house and my mother (who did not work outside the home my entire childhood) is now too busy working to join us.

[Jane in NC]

 

It's been a horrid week.....

 

Sending you all of the virtual chocolate I can muster.

 

Big hugs,

Jane

[momma2three]

Since when did braces become a luxury? I had such a severe jaw misalignment that it caused me pain and prematurely wore down the teeth on one side because that was the only side I could chew on. Braces fixed that. I would hardly put braces on the list of luxury things like "new car at age 16" that you don't need to buy your child if you don't want to.

[Soror]

Since when did braces become a luxury? I had such a severe jaw misalignment that it caused me pain and prematurely wore down the teeth on one side because that was the only side I could chew on. Braces fixed that. I would hardly put braces on the list of luxury things like "new car at age 16" that you don't need to buy your child if you don't want to.

 

They aren't for everyone though. Braces fix a large array of issues from barely noticeable cosmetic issues to a huge medical need.

[Cassy]

Sending you all of the virtual chocolate I can muster.

 

Big hugs,

Jane

 

Me too.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I saw nothing offensive in your first post, just another point of view.

 

I'm really sorry life's so hard at the moment. Wishing you a much happier, more positive future.

 

:grouphug:

[Ibbygirl]

I think parenting should be the next Olympic sport. Parenting is SO competitive... The least they can do is offer medals. :glare:

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Sending you all of the virtual chocolate I can muster.

 

Big hugs,

Jane

 

:iagree::iagree: :grouphug::grouphug: I hope things get better for you soon elegantlion.

[StaceyinLA]

I think I have a unique perspective, so I will add it.

 

I was #6, and a surprise for my parents at ages 40 and 41. My 5 siblings grew up together at a time when my parents had much less money, and lived in a much smaller home.

 

My siblings have so many more fond memories of childhood than I do. I always feel left out of their growing up stories (I WAS left out of most of them of course, because I wasn't born yet).

 

I had a great upbringing, don't get me wrong. My parents had plenty of money and time for me. I had many things my siblings never did, and opportunities they never had because of my dad's success at that point, but I cannot sit with anyone and talk about playing baseball in the yard, tickle fights, Christmas morning excited with a big group of siblings, vacations cramped in the car together, just making memories in general.

 

I am 12 years behind the next sibling, and almost 18 behind the oldest. When something happens in our family, EVERYONE is there to support one another. When my dad died, we were ALL at his bedside. When my mom had a heart attack, we were ALL at the hospital within an hour. When she had bypass surgery, we all sat together and took turns taking care of her. When my brother had his heart stop, every single one of his sisters was in that hospital.

 

I'm sorry, and no offense to onlys, but nothing can compare to a group of supportive siblings who can walk through trials with you like no one else. No, we don't all get along every minute, but when push comes to shove, there is always someone you can count on.

[AdventureMoms]

NOT having kids is far more selfish. As I said, I want more, but I don't know how I would be able to deal with it.

 

I don't think that's true either. I would like more, for emotional reasons. I'm choosing to be done, for practical reasons. I don't see either as particularly selfish (continuing to have children or stopping, following the heart or the head) and I certainly don't think I have any clue how it works out for other families. There are advantages to having many siblings and disadvantages. Kids usually seem to deal with those just fine.

[AdventureMoms]

Since when did braces become a luxury? I had such a severe jaw misalignment that it caused me pain and prematurely wore down the teeth on one side because that was the only side I could chew on. Braces fixed that. I would hardly put braces on the list of luxury things like "new car at age 16" that you don't need to buy your child if you don't want to.

 

Sometimes braces are a necessity, sometimes a luxury. My dentist wanted me to have braces because of an extremely tiny and non-visible crossbite. I had no discomfort, and he didn't think it would get worse or cause any future problems. But still, my teeth weren't "perfect" so I should have braces. I'm glad I didn't.

[elfgivas]

a story from where we live, now, in the high desert.

 

living on the margins makes some thing way clearer.

 

our well is over 400 feet deep. it is a shared well, between four properties. farther along, there is a well share with three properties. the two wells tap into the same aquifer.

 

how we use water and how much doesn't just affect us, it affects at least seven families. when someone new moves in, we have a party. part of the party is explaining why all our cars are dusty (there isn't enough water to wash 14 cars even once a month), why there are no lawns (there is not enough water for one lawn, never mind seven), why there are no sprinklers even for plants (if we are going to try to grow food, then having the wind send the water flying would mean there isn't enough water for seven gardens). we talk thru how those of us with pools do not fill them using the well water. we pay to have water trucked in "from away", because there simply isn't enough water.

 

by moving here, people choose to become clearly interdependent, whether they realize it at the time or not.

 

four years ago, one of the houses on our well share was sold. a family moved in. a family with 18 people in it moved in. we ran out of water completely four times before they finally understood that they couldn't all shower every day. and that even at every other day, those showers had better be really short. and that washing towels after they'd been used only once wasn't an option. in the meantime, six other families were beside themselves with worry and fear, wondering if we had run out of water forever.

 

so their chosen family size definitely affects six other families in very real and tangible ways.

 

another example: in some parts of africa, where women must walk miles for potable water, you can really only keep alive the number of children you can carry water for.

 

i do think this is true for all of us, its just more obvious in some places than others. on a more global scale, we only have one planet. there are limited resources of many kinds.

 

i'm not sure its fully true that what we do only affects us, however much we might want to believe it. dh had a cousin who chose not to have kids because of this; i had two cousins who didn't have children for this reason. our second oldest dd has decided not to have children, too.

 

i think that living where a necessity of life is scarce on a daily basis makes clear some things that living in a city insulates us from.

 

from the high desert,

ann

 

eta: last year, on the three way well share, a family moved in. they bought five horses, that needed water. one of those families cut the pipes to that family's tank when they refused to truck in water for their pets. it was wild. we chose the running out of water route, because we felt that it would become abundantly clear soon enough, and it did.

Edited August 22, 2012 by elfgivas@yahoo.com

[AdventureMoms]

I think parenting should be the next Olympic sport. Parenting is SO competitive... The least they can do is offer medals. :glare:

 

Of course there would have to be different divisions. You know, like:

 

The selfish mom with only one child division

The irresponsible mom with too many kids division

The selfish working mom division

The lazy SAHM division

The twisted extended breast feeding mom division

The uneducated bottle feeding mom division

 

Did I miss any? :tongue_smilie:

 

You missed:

The overprotective homeschool mom division

The doesn't-like-kids public school mom division

 

And probably others but those are the first that come to mind. Can one compete in multiple categories? Because I qualify for a few.

[Cassy]

i do think this is true for all of us, its just more obvious in some places than others. on a more global scale, we only have one planet. there are limited resources of many kinds.

 

i'm not sure its fully true that what we do only affects us, however much we might want to believe it. dh had a cousin who chose not to have kids because of this; i had two cousins who didn't have children for this reason. our second oldest dd has decided not to have children, too.

 

i think that living where a necessity of life is scarce on a daily basis makes clear some things that living in a city insulates us from.

 

from the high desert,

ann

 

I have a friend who chose not to have any children for similar reasons. Both she and her DH are doctors and have a very good income. I'd always felt that it was just very sad that they didn't have any children, and a little ridiculous. Your post has helped me understand much better. Thank you.

[UnsinkableKristen]

Your post has helped me understand much better. Thank you.

 

 

Me, too. Thank you.

[Audrey]

a story from where we live, now, in the high desert.

 

living on the margins makes some thing way clearer.

 

our well is over 400 feet deep. it is a shared well, between four properties. farther along, there is a well share with three properties. the two wells tap into the same aquifer.

 

how we use water and how much doesn't just affect us, it affects at least seven families. when someone new moves in, we have a party. part of the party is explaining why all our cars are dusty (there isn't enough water to wash 14 cars even once a month), why there are no lawns (there is not enough water for one lawn, never mind seven), why there are no sprinklers even for plants (if we are going to try to grow food, then having the wind send the water flying would mean there isn't enough water for seven gardens). we talk thru how those of us with pools do not fill them using the well water. we pay to have water trucked in "from away", because there simply isn't enough water.

 

by moving here, people choose to become clearly interdependent, whether they realize it at the time or not.

 

four years ago, one of the houses on our well share was sold. a family moved in. a family with 18 people in it moved in. we ran out of water completely four times before they finally understood that they couldn't all shower every day. and that even at every other day, those showers had better be really short. and that washing towels after they'd been used only once wasn't an option. in the meantime, six other families were beside themselves with worry and fear, wondering if we had run out of water forever.

 

so their chosen family size definitely affects six other families in very real and tangible ways.

 

another example: in some parts of africa, where women must walk miles for potable water, you can really only keep alive the number of children you can carry water for.

 

i do think this is true for all of us, its just more obvious in some places than others. on a more global scale, we only have one planet. there are limited resources of many kinds.

 

i'm not sure its fully true that what we do only affects us, however much we might want to believe it. dh had a cousin who chose not to have kids because of this; i had two cousins who didn't have children for this reason. our second oldest dd has decided not to have children, too.

 

i think that living where a necessity of life is scarce on a daily basis makes clear some things that living in a city insulates us from.

 

from the high desert,

ann

 

eta: last year, on the three way well share, a family moved in. they bought five horses, that needed water. one of those families cut the pipes to that family's tank when they refused to truck in water for their pets. it was wild. we chose the running out of water route, because we felt that it would become abundantly clear soon enough, and it did.

 

 

Now THAT is a post I would call fridge-worthy. :thumbup1:

[Aelwydd]

I'm sorry, and no offense to onlys, but nothing can compare to a group of supportive siblings who can walk through trials with you like no one else. No, we don't all get along every minute, but when push comes to shove, there is always someone you can count on.

 

You say that, but I grew up with two siblings. And while we do things together from time to time, we are not that close. We never have been, not when when we were young, and not as adults today. My ds, who is an only, is much closer to his cousins (my sister's kids) than we ever will be. She and I are simply too different, and to be honest, she only allows people to be close to her that agree with her world view. While I can live with that difference, she doesn't know how to cope with it, other than to start debates and to make verbal attacks. In order to keep peace, I have to limit our time together.

 

So, pardon me, if I don't want to throw the genetic dice and have a sibling for my only in a bid to hopefully give him a sibling that is similar enough in temperament to gain the kind of close relationship you are lucky enough to have had with your siblings. Just having more children doesn't guarantee that they will be close.

 

Sometimes siblings really do not like each other, and even grow to hate each other. Sometimes it is like my dh's case, who lives 1500 miles away from his brother, and has so little in common with him, despite their shared upbringing, that they never talk. The last time they spoke, it was over a year ago. And only 2 years separate them in age.

 

What I have seen is exactly as Impish described: it's a crapshoot. Some of those families are very close like yours, and some of them are frankly, TLC-like disasters, with drug/ alcohol addictions, constant drama, and fighting.

 

Emphatically said here: you cannot unequivocally state that my only child has nothing in his life to compare to the close relationships of your siblings. As I said, he has his cousins, and beyond that, I had him at age 25, and women tend to be very long-lived in my family. In way, we have been growing up together.

 

So, don't make assumptions that only children are all somehow going to be left bereft someday with no close relationships. No one has that assurance anyway, not big families, not medium families, not small families.

 

And FYI: why only-children always seem to get targeted as negative comparisons in this discussions is ridiculous. I support the OP's decision to have another baby, because she and her dh want one, and because they will provide him/her with a loving home. That is what I feel about all big families. If they can provide them with loving and responsible parenting, then kudos to them. But please leave my family model out of it, because I'm this ---><--- far from starting my own thread about the joys of only children, if only to make it clear I'm done defending my "selfish" choice.

[SailorMom]

Life is one big cost/benefit analysis. Everyone has different opinions of what are costs and what are benefits.

DH and I decided on two kids. We can afford more, but I didn't want to raise more as a single mom half the year with him deployed. We wanted to take more expensive vacations with two rather than miss them with more. We want to retire young and sail away.

To many - that would seem selfish, I suppose.

I think people should be able to support any children they have both emotionally and financially. Beyond that, it's all gravy. And by financial support - I do not mean sending them to college or buying them a car. I mean food, clothes and a roof.

[Mommy22alyns]

You say that, but I grew up with two siblings. And while we do things together from time to time, we are not that close. We never have been, not when when we were young, and not as adults today. My ds, who is an only, is much closer to his cousins (my sister's kids) than we ever will be. She and I are simply too different, and to be honest, she only allows people to be close to her that agree with her world view. While I can live with that difference, she doesn't know how to cope with it, other than to start debates and to make verbal attacks. In order to keep peace, I have to limit our time together.

 

So, pardon me, if I don't want to throw the genetic dice and have a sibling for my only in a bid to hopefully give him a sibling that is similar enough in temperament to gain the kind of close relationship you are lucky enough to have had with your siblings. Just having more children doesn't guarantee that they will be close.

 

Sometimes siblings really do not like each other, and even grow to hate each other. Sometimes it is like my dh's case, who lives 1500 miles away from his brother, and has so little in common with him, despite their shared upbringing, that they never talk. The last time they spoke, it was over a year ago. And only 2 years separate them in age.

 

What I have seen is exactly as Impish described: it's a crapshoot. Some of those families are very close like yours, and some of them are frankly, TLC-like disasters, with drug/ alcohol addictions, constant drama, and fighting.

 

Emphatically said here: you cannot unequivocally state that my only child has nothing in his life to compare to the close relationships of your siblings. As I said, he has his cousins, and beyond that, I had him at age 25, and women tend to be very long-lived in my family. In way, we have been growing up together.

 

So, don't make assumptions that only children are all somehow going to be left bereft someday with no close relationships. No one has that assurance anyway, not big families, not medium families, not small families.

 

And FYI: why only-children always seem to get targeted as negative comparisons in this discussions is ridiculous. I support the OP's decision to have another baby, because she and her dh want one, and because they will provide him/her with a loving home. That is what I feel about all big families. If they can provide them with loving and responsible parenting, then kudos to them. But please leave my family model out of it, because I'm this ---><--- far from starting my own thread about the joys of only children, if only to make it clear I'm done defending my "selfish" choice.

 

 

Even though I have 2 kids (;)) this is well said. I have a sister that I never speak to. She's 9 years younger and completely co-dependent with my mom. My mom cut ties with me so of course my sister isn't speaking to me. But we never spoke even before then. Like others have said, having xx number of kids is NO guarantee of anything.

[Impish]

I'm sorry, and no offense to onlys, but nothing can compare to a group of supportive siblings who can walk through trials with you like no one else. No, we don't all get along every minute, but when push comes to shove, there is always someone you can count on.

Nope.

I was raised w/3 brothers. None of us talk to one another. Not a single one. I wouldn't count on them any more than I'd count on someone off the street.

 

Love them, yes...or at least the memories of the kids I grew up w/. I don't actually know the adults they've become, the women they've married, the children they have.

 

Honestly, it would be less painful if I'd been an only, in that regard.

 

Having sibs is 0 guarantee that there's going to 'always be someone you can count on.'

[Heather in Neverland]

Now THAT is a post I would call fridge-worthy. :thumbup1:

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

Fascinating and very true.

 

We have chosen to stop at 3 mostly because of the age span in our kids. My 2yo takes up A LOT of time and energy. That's just how it is with toddlers. My oldest ds only has 4 years left with us before he heads off to college. There is so much we still want to teach him, so many practical things to do as well, before he leaves. And our 8yo is a busy little bee with school and sports.

 

Sometimes it is very tough to balance it all. Adding an infant that requires LOADS of time would stretch me even thinner and I might break. I owe it to the children I have to be there for them. I don't want my high schooler's last "home" memories before he leaves for college to be of me with zero time for him because I am caring for all the children I chose to bring into our family.

 

Maybe after he leaves for college? But I will be 46 at that point and the idea of it exhausts me. :tongue_smilie:

[catz]

Even though I have 2 kids (;)) this is well said. I have a sister that I never speak to. She's 9 years younger and completely co-dependent with my mom. My mom cut ties with me so of course my sister isn't speaking to me. But we never spoke even before then. Like others have said, having xx number of kids is NO guarantee of anything.

 

:iagree: I have a brother who I was pretty close with growing up, but due to his choice of spouse and his life choices I only see or hear from them through our parents. I dread future interactions when my parents are older. I truly believe you can do everything right and your kids might not be close.

 

There are several fridge worthy posts here! Thanks! :001_smile: