.

[Harriet Vane]

4 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

And yet, other people seem to have friends.  How does that happen? 

I have dear friends from where we lived before. In my current home, I have friendly acquaintances, even after ten years here. I would say that some groups and cultures are friendlier than others. 

[Carol in Cal.]

2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I need friends; I just don’t know where to look.  So much of adult socializing seems to be couples…I know plenty of people who get together for dinner, have game nights, small group church stuff, go axe throwing, etc, but they all do it as couples.

DH isn’t going to do any of that and does not like to have people over for dinner. Back in 2010-2013 we used to hold game nights and have dinners and such, go out to movies with couples and it was fun, but he will no longer do any of that and those friendships have long since faded.

Book club and church is where I've made friends in the last 10 years.  It took time but it did happen.

I agree that a WTM or common homeschooling meet up group would be very nice, kind of like a veterans of foreign wars chapter--we have been through things together and through similar things that are really fun to remember and seriously difficult to share with anyone else.

[Faith-manor]

1 minute ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Book club and church is where I've made friends in the last 10 years.  It took time but it did happen.

I agree that a WTM or common homeschooling meet up group would be very nice, kind of like a veterans of foreign wars chapter--we have been through things together and through similar things that are really fun to remember and seriously difficult to share with anyone else.

WTMECW - Well Trained Mind Educators of Curriculum Wars.

😁

I am in Michigan and so is Ottakee. We might have one more Michigander here as well. A meet up at say, Sauder Village in northern Ohio would be somewhat central to Northern Indiana, Northwest Ohio, and lower half of the Lower Peninsula of Michigan. 

I am willing to go out on a limb and say that if any out of staters want to come to Michigan to experience its glorious, Great Lakes summer, I will meet you somewhere, and if you want me to help you draw up an itinerary to see some of our best things, I am willing to help with that.

Huge everybody! Especially to Llama.

[Condessa]

19 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

I don't know how to do that.  It's not like I haven''t tried to make friends.  I'm just really bad at it.  

 

9 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

I didn’t make friends easily before the trauma. 

I have always had a hard time making friends.  I am super introverted and it takes me a very long time to get close to people.  I’ve never had a lot of friends, but would usually make one really close friend after a few years in a new place.  But since ds’s diagnosis, it is harder. We lived here for a few years before his diagnosis, but not long enough before the pandemic for me to have made a real friend yet, and at this point we’ve lived here for almost six years and I don’t know if I’m ever going to make a real friend here.  It is just harder to get close when you have difficult experiences that others don’t relate to.

[Drama Llama]

Hi all, 

I don't mean to be whiny.  I'm not looking for people to feel sorry for me. I'm just saying that I think that I hear @prairiewindmomma saying I should just move and get a new support network, but that the second part of that is not easy.

Where I live now, I have back up.  I have people I can call on for little things, like a ride when my kids need to go in opposite directions, or enormous things like stepping literally or metaphorically between my child and an unsafe adult.  I have people I trust who I can go to when I need to bounce an idea off someone, or I just need someone to hug me until I can catch my breath and try whatever task felt unsurmountable again, or I need someone to parent my kids for a little while while I spiral.   I have an employer who respects my skills enough to trust me to work from home when I need it, and who I trust to protect my privacy.   But all those people are people who I formed relationships with before things fell apart, and many of them are related to DH.  I acknowledge that the people I am talking about might be part of dysfunctional circles, but at least they exist.  I don't know how I'd replace them.

And it's not just my own support network I worry about.  My oldest has done OK at forming relationships.  Since he started his current school 2.5 years ago, he's gained two new close friends, and a large circle of people who he hangs out with outside of school.  But my youngest, who has been so damaged (to quote @Rosie_0801) by his father, hasn't had that success.  He's my super extroverted kid.  He desperately needs people to be with.  In his case, I do think the issue is trauma, because he had a wonderful circle of friends before things got bad.   But despite school, and playing all the sports, he hasn't made new friends since 2020.  The idea of taking him away from the people he loves, is a hard one to accept, especially since I'm not well enough to be his support person. 

So, I hear the suggestion.  I just can't imagine how to put it into action.  

[bolt.]

22 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

I'm not really sure how this connects with my situation.  I know that what religion someone grows up to be is not within parental control, but I do think that connecting church attendance with intrusion, control, and conflict is not going to increase the likelihood that the kid continues to attend.

I can't "release" abusive behavior towards my minor children, from someone who has hurt them in the past.  Protecting my children is literally my most important job.  

I think that, "connecting church attendance with intrusion, control, and conflict is not going to increase the likelihood that the kid continues to attend." -- too! I think that all sensible people think that.

Unfortunately not all the people in your kids' life right now are sensible,

And I really think this is a binary choice: either you can *control* whether or not (or to what degree or how often) your husband is unwise like that.... Or you can release the idea that it's your job to control for that.

If his is abusing the children, by all means, take every step you can to limit any and all abuse in any situation for any reason. You need to protect your children from every form of abuse.

You don't need to care whether any particular non-abusive actions done not-by-you have the potential to build or hurt their faith. If he's just being stupid in the pursuit of his own parenting goals... you really don't need to take on a role in that situation.

[prairiewindmomma]

Maybe the next step for you is to discuss it in an upcoming therapy session. Part of the damage of trauma is that it does impact our ability to connect with people.

Your boys are going to be moving into adulthood in the next few years and being able to make healthy connections with new people is going to be a big opportunity for them. We all hope that our kids will be able to make friends, find a partner, etc. and if those basic skills/ability to form healthy bonds arent there, then that’s something to work on. 
 

Maybe you’re still in basic survival mode and that’s not high on your hierarchy of needs at the moment—but hopefully with dh physically elsewhere and what has seemed like a period of greater stability you can eventually move out of crisis mode into a period of thriving.

[Drama Llama]

14 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Maybe the next step for you is to discuss it in an upcoming therapy session. Part of the damage of trauma is that it does impact our ability to connect with people.

Your boys are going to be moving into adulthood in the next few years and being able to make healthy connections with new people is going to be a big opportunity for them. We all hope that our kids will be able to make friends, find a partner, etc. and if those basic skills/ability to form healthy bonds arent there, then that’s something to work on. 
 

Maybe you’re still in basic survival mode and that’s not high on your hierarchy of needs at the moment—but hopefully with dh physically elsewhere and what has seemed like a period of greater stability you can eventually move out of crisis mode into a period of thriving.

What makes you think I'm not working on these things and trying as hard as I can?

[prairiewindmomma]

4 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

What makes you think I'm not working on these things and trying as hard as I can?

I meant no offense. As I’ve said, we dont know the details of your daily life. What you have posted about the topic in the past is “I dont know how” or months ago that there were more urgent things going on (which was totally valid) or that you didnt have time outside of other commitments. That gives a different perception than “We’re working on it” or “I have an awesome support network in my neighborhood.”

I’ll back out now. Best wishes.

[KungFuPanda]

7 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I need friends; I just don’t know where to look.  So much of adult socializing seems to be couples…I know plenty of people who get together for dinner, have game nights, small group church stuff, go axe throwing, etc, but they all do it as couples.

DH isn’t going to do any of that and does not like to have people over for dinner. Back in 2010-2013 we used to hold game nights and have dinners and such, go out to movies with couples and it was fun, but he will no longer do any of that and those friendships have long since faded.

I have friends. I put in the time and maintain those relationships. However, most of that time is spent with JUST women. DH just doesn’t have it in him. He’s not interested enough to expend any real effort and would absolutely be a hermit if not for me and the kids. He has zero interest in new people. (He made an exception for our grandson. He’s very into that baby.) I’m not sure he’s ever invited a friend to do anything since we’ve been married. 
 

Our couple friends are a family we met 25 years ago, and his brother and the brother’s wife. Since the brother is family that’s ONE couple friendship that I forced upon him against his will but him and the husband have gotten along all this time. I only mentioned the brother because DH, the friend, and the brother do stuff together and the non-related family gets included in our family events. So now we’re back to no friends because they’re really family at this point. 

[maize]

@Drama Llama I think you are doing a fantastic job.

It honestly doesnt matter whether anyone thinks you are providing the most ideal situation possible under the circumstances for your children. Life isn't about ideal. It's not even about trying for ideal.

I had to come to peace with that a long time ago, out of necessity. We all lived in clinging-on-by-our-fingernails survival mode for most of two decades, before things started to turn in a more manageable direction. I've only barely gotten to a place where I'm up to trying to work with a therapist to address trauma from twenty-one years ago. I'm not at all ready to work on more recent or ongoing trauma. 

Every step of the way, I've done what I could. I doubt most people looking in from the outside would ever have thought I was doing enough.

That doesn't matter. I did what was possible.

I'm still doing what is possible.

That is going to have to be enough because it's the only actual option.

Have I given my kids as good a childhood as I dreamed and hoped? No. But I've given what I had to give. As my parents gave me. And...there's a lot of good.

It IS enough.

[Drama Llama]

2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I meant no offense. As I’ve said, we dont know the details of your daily life. What you have posted about the topic in the past is “I dont know how” or months ago that there were more urgent things going on (which was totally valid) or that you didnt have time outside of other commitments. That gives a different perception than “We’re working on it” or “I have an awesome support network in my neighborhood.”

I’ll back out now. Best wishes.

I'm not offended.  I don't know how.  You have told me repeatedly, I need to get a new support network, and have implied that the fact that I keep other people in my life is the reason I don't have a support network. So, I am clarifying that I do not know how to get this mythical new support network, and why I'm not willing to give up my and my kids' current support network in hopes that it leads to a new one appearing, especially since I don't actually understand the connection.  It's not like my current support network is preventing me from spending time in new places.  My kids have changed schools.  I have changed jobs.  I have spent hours on the sideline of new sports that my kids didn't even play previously.  I am around new people.  

We all have therapists.  We have all done lots of work around trauma.  That doesn't mean we're fixed.  I wish it worked that way.

[Drama Llama]

35 minutes ago, maize said:

@Drama Llama I think you are doing a fantastic job.

It honestly doesnt matter whether anyone thinks you are providing the most ideal situation possible under the circumstances for your children. Life isn't about ideal. It's not even about trying for ideal.

I had to come to peace with that a long time ago, out of necessity. We all lived in clinging-on-by-our-fingernails survival mode for most of two decades, before things started to turn in a more manageable direction. I've only barely gotten to a place where I'm up to trying to work with a therapist to address trauma from twenty-one years ago. I'm not at all ready to work on more recent or ongoing trauma. 

Every step of the way, I've done what I could. I doubt most people looking in from the outside would ever have thought I was doing enough.

That doesn't matter. I did what was possible.

I'm still doing what is possible.

That is going to have to be enough because it's the only actual option.

Have I given my kids as good a childhood as I dreamed and hoped? No. But I've given what I had to give. As my parents gave me. And...there's a lot of good.

It IS enough.

Thank you, I needed that. 

[Harriet Vane]

6 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

WTMECW - Well Trained Mind Educators of Curriculum Wars.

😁

I am in Michigan and so is Ottakee. We might have one more Michigander here as well. A meet up at say, Sauder Village in northern Ohio would be somewhat central to Northern Indiana, Northwest Ohio, and lower half of the Lower Peninsula of Michigan. 

I am willing to go out on a limb and say that if any out of staters want to come to Michigan to experience its glorious, Great Lakes summer, I will meet you somewhere, and if you want me to help you draw up an itinerary to see some of our best things, I am willing to help with that.

Huge everybody! Especially to Llama.

I could totally do this. 

[Drama Llama]

13 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

I could totally do this. 

You all should totally do this! 

[Murphy101]

23 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

I don't know how to do that.  It's not like I haven''t tried to make friends.  I'm just really bad at it.  

I can't move.  For very complicated, very real reasons, I am tied to this area.  

Not all of DH's family is dysfunctional.  

It doesn’t actually sound like you have a problem making friends. It sounds by your other posts that you have made them over the years so of course your xh was probably along for that friendship when you were together. The good friends will believe the damage done and know that they can love him still while supporting you and maintaining healthy division of the friendships between the 3 of you. 

22 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Most people do not have the skills for being friends with traumatised people. 

Which means most people do not have genuine friend making skills. Because we are all broken people. Some people just think shallow relationships that don’t involve ever seeing hearing or speaking about that brokenness are friendships.

13 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

I didn’t make friends easily before the trauma. 

 

11 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

And yet, other people seem to have friends.  How does that happen? 

I think you are being too hard on yourself. I don’t think anything would be worth moving away from your support network. Presuming it’s genuinely healthily supporting you and your kids. It takes most people decades to build that kind of relationship and community.  And to read this post below - you have made friends just fine and dandy. 

I think too many are focusing on the religious aspect but if your kids want to be there *and can be there safely* - I think that’s vital to maintaining your and their support network. 

3 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

Hi all, 

I don't mean to be whiny.  I'm not looking for people to feel sorry for me. I'm just saying that I think that I hear @prairiewindmomma saying I should just move and get a new support network, but that the second part of that is not easy.

Where I live now, I have back up.  I have people I can call on for little things, like a ride when my kids need to go in opposite directions, or enormous things like stepping literally or metaphorically between my child and an unsafe adult.  I have people I trust who I can go to when I need to bounce an idea off someone, or I just need someone to hug me until I can catch my breath and try whatever task felt unsurmountable again, or I need someone to parent my kids for a little while while I spiral.   I have an employer who respects my skills enough to trust me to work from home when I need it, and who I trust to protect my privacy.   But all those people are people who I formed relationships with before things fell apart, and many of them are related to DH.  I acknowledge that the people I am talking about might be part of dysfunctional circles, but at least they exist.  I don't know how I'd replace them.

And it's not just my own support network I worry about.  My oldest has done OK at forming relationships.  Since he started his current school 2.5 years ago, he's gained two new close friends, and a large circle of people who he hangs out with outside of school.  But my youngest, who has been so damaged (to quote @Rosie_0801) by his father, hasn't had that success.  He's my super extroverted kid.  He desperately needs people to be with.  In his case, I do think the issue is trauma, because he had a wonderful circle of friends before things got bad.   But despite school, and playing all the sports, he hasn't made new friends since 2020.  The idea of taking him away from the people he loves, is a hard one to accept, especially since I'm not well enough to be his support person. 

So, I hear the suggestion.  I just can't imagine how to put it into action.  

Maybe because it’s not the best thing for your family at this time.  Not every suggestion needs taken up. 

Like thinking about your kids 5-10 years from now.  I mean type A planner me sees the value in that exercise but also. Yikes.  Let’s worry about this year and let the next decade of worries and panic attacks arrive in their own time without us rushing to greet them today. 
 

and yes different children in the household process the same things very differently. It wouldn’t bother me that one child hasn’t made new friends - but does he maintain good relationship with the friends he had?  If so, he might feel similar to you and just can’t handle making new friends right now. That’s okay as long as he still has healthy friendships. 

[Drama Llama]

19 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

It doesn’t actually sound like you have a problem making friends. It sounds by your other posts that you have made them over the years so of course your xh was probably along for that friendship when you were together. The good friends will believe the damage done and know that they can love him still while supporting you and maintaining healthy division of the friendships between the 3 of you. 

If I made a list of the people I am closest to, the top 10 adults on the list would all either be people who are related to DH, or people who are married to people who are related to DH. 

19 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Which means most people do not have genuine friend making skills. Because we are all broken people. Some people just think shallow relationships that don’t involve ever seeing hearing or speaking about that brokenness are friendships.

Well that might be true, or not, but it doesn't really change anything.  Like if I can't make friends because I'm broken, or because they are, either way the mythical support network isn't going to happen.  

19 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I think you are being too hard on yourself. I don’t think anything would be worth moving away from your support network. Presuming it’s genuinely healthily supporting you and your kids. It takes most people decades to build that kind of relationship and community.  And to read this post below - you have made friends just fine and dandy. 

I think too many are focusing on the religious aspect but if your kids want to be there *and can be there safely* - I think that’s vital to maintaining your and their support network. 

Maybe because it’s not the best thing for your family at this time.  Not every suggestion needs taken up. 

Like thinking about your kids 5-10 years from now.  I mean type A planner me sees the value in that exercise but also. Yikes.  Let’s worry about this year and let the next decade of worries and panic attacks arrive in their own time without us rushing to greet them today. 
 

and yes different children in the household process the same things very differently.

Their experiences have been really different.  

19 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

It wouldn’t bother me that one child hasn’t made new friends - but does he maintain good relationship with the friends he had?  If so, he might feel similar to you and just can’t handle making new friends right now. That’s okay as long as he still has healthy friendships. 

He struggles with that.

[dirty ethel rackham]

20 hours ago, Terabith said:

I think it's also very challenging to make close friends as an adult with teenagers, especially if you're busy with working and taking kids to a zillion sporting events and driving back and forth to school and attending concerts and medical appointments and the like.  Everyone is busy, and there aren't the La Leche League meetings and play groups where everyone hangs out that are more common when your kids are tiny.  Even without trauma, it's just a hard season of life to build a big support system.  

Try making friends when your kids are grown!  My entire support network (outside of you boardies) unraveled when K got sick.  Most of my friendships were through activities that I did with my kids and those were coming to a close.  We needed to be more intentional about maintaining those friendships after regular scheduled contact was coming to a close.  But our family was hanging on by our fingernails -  dealing with months and months of not knowing if my child would be alive in the morning, the realization that, instead of getting back on track, maybe there wasn't a track to get back to, and crises of faith.  The people for whom I had been present when they went through hard times weren't there for me.  I lost not only those beloved friends from our decades of homeschooling, my church friends dropped me and my siblings distanced themselves from me.  When I could finally come up for air, I had no one to turn to.

In the past 10 years,  I've tried a 10-point plan of making new friends (I literally made a list of 10 action items to make new friends)- reaching out to acquaintances and trying to make something more regular - trying to join book clubs, exercise groups, etc only to feel more alone.  I went back to school for a new career and we had a nice group of people in our cohort, but Covid splintered that.  I've been working for over 2 years and have no new friends.  I have one neighbor I go for a walk with every couple months.  

8 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

This thread is making me think we need some regional, WTM meet ups. Many of us are pretty lonely. 

I am so in!  

[Terabith]

I'm not great at making friends.  I have friends that I made in college who are still around the area.  (We moved away for almost ten years but came back.)  Though to be fair, most of those are my husband's friends.  I have people I'm friendly with at work.  I have people I'm friendly with at the gym.  I have at various times made friends at churches, but honestly, I've been kinda mad at our church for getting rid of my preferred service, and I hate going early in the morning instead, so mostly I just don't go.  But in San Antonio, when our kids were babies, we made friends through a young families Bible study and social group.  

Honestly and sincerely, most of my closest friends are friends I made online.  I count those as completely genuine.  Some of them I've gotten together with in real life and some I haven't. 

But, I haven't made close friendships since we've been living in Roanoke really, though one former coworker I'm pretty close to.  The people I can call on in an emergency are either from college, one woman whose kids did homeschool and church stuff with my kids when they were little, or my youngest's best friend's parents.  I could call the pastors of our church, and there are a couple of people from church I could call if I needed something, but I wouldn't say we're close.  A few folks from work are kinda friends but also there's work boundary stuff there.   

[Longtime Lurker]

8 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

WTMECW - Well Trained Mind Educators of Curriculum Wars.

😁

I am in Michigan and so is Ottakee. We might have one more Michigander here as well. A meet up at say, Sauder Village in northern Ohio would be somewhat central to Northern Indiana, Northwest Ohio, and lower half of the Lower Peninsula of Michigan. 

I am willing to go out on a limb and say that if any out of staters want to come to Michigan to experience its glorious, Great Lakes summer, I will meet you somewhere, and if you want me to help you draw up an itinerary to see some of our best things, I am willing to help with that.

Huge everybody! Especially to Llama.

Also in Michigan. A beautiful place to visit in the summer! I would love a meet-up!

[Longtime Lurker]

On 1/24/2024 at 7:04 PM, Drama Llama said:

When I first came here, people thought I was an awful mother!

I never thought that. And I remember a couple previous user names for you, so it's been a while. I'm so sorry people thought that. I have always been impressed by how carefully you consider all your parenting decisions. I'm glad your kids have you!

[Murphy101]

1 hour ago, Drama Llama said:

If I made a list of the people I am closest to, the top 10 adults on the list would all either be people who are related to DH, or people who are married to people who are related to DH. 
 

But… in healthy marriages that’s what I would expect. I mean obviously the people you are around the most aka family and work/education related - that’s probably where your friends will be made just by default. 
 

Do you have any hobbies or interests? Have you tried joining groups focused on that? You might not make friends but at least you’ll be doing something you enjoy while being around others who enjoy it - and that’s a good start.

1 hour ago, Drama Llama said:

Well that might be true, or not, but it doesn't really change anything.  Like if I can't make friends because I'm broken, or because they are, either way the mythical support network isn't going to happen.

oh I agree. It’s hard. It doesn’t come naturally. That’s why I said for most people it takes decades to form a tight support community. 

1 hour ago, Drama Llama said:

Their experiences have been really different.

absolutely possible. I know many who have had the experience of needing to uproot - most did not have a support network where they were though so it made that decision much easier. 

1 hour ago, Drama Llama said:

He struggles with that.

🥺 I would just support him and tell him it’s okay to be that way at times. Just keep doing what he enjoys and not to forget that relationships take time.  It’s hard. 

[itsheresomewhere]

This is an honest question-  with all that has happened with your youngest, would he feel better having a fresh start at another church even if it is just trying out a youth group?  Giving him a choice and maybe trying out another church just one service and see how he feels about it.   
 

Another thought-  is there a 4H group near you that has a gaming club ( board or video). Those tend to be the most welcoming.  The kids in these tend to be very welcoming yet without any pressure on the activities.  It could be an outlet for him to find some light friendships.  

[Drama Llama]

7 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

But… in healthy marriages that’s what I would expect. I mean obviously the people you are around the most aka family and work/education related - that’s probably where your friends will be made just by default. 
 

You would expect that someone wouldn’t have relationships with their own family of origin, or other people from their work or their kids education or activities?  Only to their spouses’ family of origin?  
 

7 hours ago, itsheresomewhere said:

This is an honest question-  with all that has happened with your youngest, would he feel better having a fresh start at another church even if it is just trying out a youth group?  Giving him a choice and maybe trying out another church just one service and see how he feels about it.   
 

We have been attending church in the neighborhood where we were living for the past year and a half until we moved back two weeks ago.  

7 hours ago, itsheresomewhere said:

Another thought-  is there a 4H group near you that has a gaming club ( board or video). Those tend to be the most welcoming.  The kids in these tend to be very welcoming yet without any pressure on the activities.  It could be an outlet for him to find some light friendships.  

He doesn’t like games for the most part,  but he also has school 35 hours a week and group sports about 20.  He spends plenty of time with other kids.  

[SKL]

18 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

Where I live now, I have back up.  I have people I can call on for little things, like a ride when my kids need to go in opposite directions, or enormous things like stepping literally or metaphorically between my child and an unsafe adult.  I have people I trust who I can go to when I need to bounce an idea off someone, or I just need someone to hug me until I can catch my breath and try whatever task felt unsurmountable again, or I need someone to parent my kids for a little while while I spiral.   I have an employer who respects my skills enough to trust me to work from home when I need it, and who I trust to protect my privacy.   But all those people are people who I formed relationships with before things fell apart, and many of them are related to DH.  I acknowledge that the people I am talking about might be part of dysfunctional circles, but at least they exist.  I don't know how I'd replace them.

Just wanted to say I can relate to the fact that some of the people you need and love are also part of the problem.

There are people who can't understand why I've put up with certain things.  TBH I'm glad for them that they don't understand.

Not saying anyone on this thread is saying this, but it's become popular to advise people to just leave their people and their "old life" behind.  I think that's usually terrible advice.

I've been reading this thread and realizing I have no advice, because you are in a situation that defies all the laws of human behavior, by no fault of your own.  I feel for you & I pray for you.

[Murphy101]

4 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

You would expect that someone wouldn’t have relationships with their own family of origin, or other people from their work or their kids education or activities?  Only to their spouses’ family of origin?

Not necessarily but sure. If their FOO is not relationship sustaining, maybe they view work differently or it’s a place that doesn’t make friendships easy to form, many women just don’t have the time to be involved at their kids schools bc frankly the schools tend to not be very working-parent friendly. If YOU attend classes for YOU - I’d expect you to make an effort to be friendly and eventually maybe form relationships over time. 

But it is not at all unusual for a couple to be exceedingly more involved with one side of the marriage family than the other. For lots of reasons, many of which may not have anything negative to do with one side of the family. 

4 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

We have been attending church in the neighborhood where we were living for the past year and a half until we moved back two weeks ago.

I mean. You’re Catholic. It’s called the universal church for a reason. While it’s important to have a home parish for regular attendance, I totally go all over this diocese all the time. Lots of people from all over the diocese attend events like youth group at our parish. So I think that’s a great option to branch out without breaking off.  

4 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

He doesn’t like games for the most part,  but he also has school 35 hours a week and group sports about 20.  He spends plenty of time with other kids.  

Introverted me would be very done peopling at that point. 🙂

[Heartstrings]

17 minutes ago, SKL said:

I've been reading this thread and realizing I have no advice, because you are in a situation that defies all the laws of human behavior, by no fault of your own.

QFT.  

[Murphy101]

42 minutes ago, SKL said:

Just wanted to say I can relate to the fact that some of the people you need and love are also part of the problem.

There are people who can't understand why I've put up with certain things.  TBH I'm glad for them that they don't understand.

Not saying anyone on this thread is saying this, but it's become popular to advise people to just leave their people and their "old life" behind.  I think that's usually terrible advice.

cancel culture is strong.  I’m not seeing a benefit to it being the default reaction but it sure seems that way these days. 

42 minutes ago, SKL said:

I've been reading this thread and realizing I have no advice, because you are in a situation that defies all the laws of human behavior, by no fault of your own.  I feel for you & I pray for you.

This. There’s lots of options, which is all I care about the OP knowing. What options she wants to take are the right ones bc she’s the one doing the best she can with what she has.  As long as she isn’t thinking she is at a dead end with no options - then she’ll be okay.

Bc otherwise that pit of despair never seems to have a bottom.

The situation is giving enough of a beating without her beating herself up too. 

[Drama Llama]

 

4 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

I mean. You’re Catholic. It’s called the universal church for a reason. While it’s important to have a home parish for regular attendance, I totally go all over this diocese all the time. Lots of people from all over the diocese attend events like youth group at our parish. So I think that’s a great option to branch out without breaking off.  

I was responding to someone who suggested that my kid might try another church once.  My kid has been to plenty of other churches.  He spent a year and a half attending a different church.  He attends a different church every time we take a vacation or go to a weekend soccer tournament, or a family member has a milestone or sings in the choir.  

He wants to attend this church, with these people.  

4 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

Introverted me would be very done peopling at that point. 🙂

He's very much not an introvert, but I don't think that more activities with other kids is the solution, because he's spending a lot of time with other kids, almost all of it with kids he didn't know before things fell apart.  

[Harriet Vane]

2 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

 

I was responding to someone who suggested that my kid might try another church once.  My kid has been to plenty of other churches.  He spent a year and a half attending a different church.  He attends a different church every time we take a vacation or go to a weekend soccer tournament, or a family member has a milestone or sings in the choir.  

He wants to attend this church, with these people.  

He's very much not an introvert, but I don't think that more activities with other kids is the solution, because he's spending a lot of time with other kids, almost all of it with kids he didn't know before things fell apart.  

If you feel that this church is important for your kids, then your only other option is to go up the chain and make sure all the priests are well aware of the actual physical danger that you and the kids suffer if your husband's spying behavior is indulged. It may not stop them, but on the other hand, it might open their eyes. 

 

FWIW a friend of mine had a similar issue. In her case, her husband abused their daughters and is now serving a prison sentence for what he did. Someone at the church was sending pictures and updates to the husband in prison. In that case, the girls started attending a different campus of that church (they got a ride from friends), and my friend stopped going to church altogether (for more reasons than just the spying). 

[Drama Llama]

To confuse things further, it appears that the source was neither SIL nor the priest.

I guess it’s good news about the priest but also creepy that I don’t know who it is.

[scholastica]

4 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

To confuse things further, it appears that the source was neither SIL nor the priest.

I guess it’s good news about the priest but also creepy that I don’t know who it is.

It could be a friend who texted and said I saw the boys at church today! And then he followed up with what about llama? And they responded with the information not realizing the import of what they were doing. Some people are expert at sounding innocent when they are really pursuing something they shouldn’t. You have been so incredibly protective of your kids’ experience (that’s a good thing, it’s their story, too and nobody’s business) people may not be aware of the extent of your dh’s illness. They may not understand that he is not asking innocently. You are in an incredibly difficult situation and balancing so much with an amazing amount of grace. You have behaved admirably all through this. 

[LaughingCat]

I think your younger is in early high school or late middle school? IME that is the worst time for friendships not the easy one it's often thought.  All 3 of mine lost long term close friendships in middle school (not due to moving or trauma or anything -- just kids changing as they hit puberty).  Only the first just moved on easily and has maintained high school friendships after high school.  The 2nd found a "group" to hang with eventually but kept touch with none of them after, and the 3rd is in early high school now and struggling.

No advice-- only saying this because for me, knowing it isn't necessarily the trauma would help.

[fairfarmhand]

8 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

To confuse things further, it appears that the source was neither SIL nor the priest.

I guess it’s good news about the priest but also creepy that I don’t know who it is.

Yes, it is concerning that there's a spy.

It's also concerning that your dh would ACT or SPEAK on this information. So someone tells him something about you, for healthy divorced/separated couples, the person says "She's an adult, she can decide when/where to attend services, because it's not my business"  Or at least registers that in the brain and has the social acumen to NOT MENTION it to your kids.  

This is so much about your dh as much as it is a spy. Even if he doesn't have spies, as long as his brain's screwed up enough that he can't filter information correctly he's going to continue this kind of boundary crossing.

UGHHHHH! I hate this for you! 

[Drama Llama]

2 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

Yes, it is concerning that there's a spy.

It's also concerning that your dh would ACT or SPEAK on this information. So someone tells him something about you, for healthy divorced/separated couples, the person says "She's an adult, she can decide when/where to attend services, because it's not my business"  Or at least registers that in the brain and has the social acumen to NOT MENTION it to your kids.  

This is so much about your dh as much as it is a spy. Even if he doesn't have spies, as long as his brain's screwed up enough that he can't filter information correctly he's going to continue this kind of boundary crossing.

UGHHHHH! I hate this for you! 

I am not shocked that he is spying.  I knew to expect that. 

Of course I do want him to stop spying.  If he was a good husband he would.

But what is alarming me is that he is telling my kids.  Leave them out of it.  

Edited January 27 by Drama Llama
clarity

[Clarita]

On 1/24/2024 at 5:36 PM, Rosie_0801 said:

Most people do not have the skills for being friends with traumatised people. 

100% this. Actually some people have a hard time being friends with someone who just went through some tough things. Even when they are friends with you, you still have to put up with them being quite insensitive sometimes to just maintain the friendship.

On 1/25/2024 at 4:29 AM, Drama Llama said:

And yet, other people seem to have friends.  How does that happen? 

My mom always has tons of friends anywhere she goes. Her big secret is she'll even be "friends" with people she doesn't like or trust. She acts friendly with everyone, she knows one or two things everyone likes (every so often she goes "out of her way" to bring that person trinkets of what they like) and for most of her friends she tells them exactly what they want to hear. She has about 3 people she is herself around and her daughter is one of them. 

With having trauma or simply hard stuff you've been through, sometimes you really don't have the energy to tell people what they want to hear. You know the "Oh I'll try that" for the umpteenth time, when you know they don't know what they are talking about. 

[Melissa in Australia]

I am your friend

I have counted you as one of my very few friends since very shortly after you started posting 

[Drama Llama]

.

Edited February 28 by Drama Llama

[Melissa in Australia]

6 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

Thank you!  I consider you a friend too!  I didn't mean to exclude people here.  I just also need the kind of friends who will pick up my kid if my car breaks down.  

The irony is that I am very good at being that kind of friend.  Like if I lived near you, I'd take your boys and give you a break, and fill up your freezer with food, and drive you places so you don't have to take the train so much.  I do these things for DH's family and I think they find I am quite useful to have around.  

I don't have any friends who would look after the boys or bring a meal or drive me somewhere.  My family don't even do that unless I beg .

I have neighbours who brought cakes for DH when I was in hospital though. 😄

Tomorrow I have a 6 hour train and bus trip each way for a 15 minute specialist appointment. I will have to travel alone because there is nobody who can look after the boys. I will have to spread the trip over 2 days to make it manageable. it is just the way life is. I am imagining how I will feel after the trip, satisfied that I managed it. It helps.

Mind you, when I was booking the hotel room I couldn't remember how to spell my last name. She wanted me to spell it like r for roger. Which got me so confused . my last name is only 4 letters long  I was up to 10 letters  and still racking me brain for what word goes with each letter of the alphabet  before she interrupted to tell me she had found me in their records. So it might be  a very interesting trip🤪

[Drama Llama]

.

Edited February 28 by Drama Llama

[*LC]

You are in an incredibly hard situation, and there may not be time right now to build close friendships.

However, I have some thoughts on creating friendships. (I saw the adult friendship thread, but I wanted to address this specifically to you.)

In your posts, it is obvious you are a wonderful cook, so all my suggestions are related to that interest and gift. It also seems you live in a big city, so some are based on that assumption.

Does your church have a time on Sunday or a different time in week when folks can eat together at church? If so, if this fits into your schedule this may be an easy to be around other people on a regular basis in a setting that leads to conversation. (I have been in churches where this would work and others where it was a frustrating failure.) 

I know folks who have been part of a group at church that got together to make meals to freeze, so the church could give them to folks with a new baby, an illness, etc. The ladies I know who did this definitely considered it a bonding experience. 

I'm on the mailing list of someone who has started a monthly dinner group. The host picks a place they want to try, makes a reservation for x people, and sends an email to all their contacts with the details and tells them to how to RSVP. Some dates/places fill up fast and others do not. Everyone orders their own food /pays for their own, but from what I understand, people like the opportunity to try new places without having to make a decision of what new place to try.

Take a cooking class. There are many places to take a class. I know finding time is hard, but you may be able to find a one-time class that fits  Do you live near a Williams Sonoma? They have in-store cooking classes, some are free. To increase odds of building a friendship, you could invite someone to go with you. If you don't have a person in mind, you could text a group you are in or post on social media, "hey, does anyone want to learn how to make xyz. I'm going to sign up for this class, if you are interested, let me know and we could carpool." 

You are such a great cook that you could even host your own cooking class. Think of the food  that people are always ask how do you make it? Invite folks to come learn how. This invite could be a group text, online or just to those who have expressed an interest.

Years ago, a friend found there were super cheap group tickets to something she wanted to do with her kids. She made some calls and quickly had enough people to qualify for the group rate. In the days of email and texting and social media, and electronic tickets, putting together a group to attend whatever ever you would like to attend would be easy.

On a different note, about making friends after/during trauma. Is there a teen grief group or camp in your area? This could be a place for your kids and you to find support and maybe even friends.

 

[Hannah]

9 hours ago, *LC said:

In your posts, it is obvious that you are a wonderful cook, so all my suggestions are related to that interest and gift. It also seems you live in a big city, so some are based on that assumption.

I love this idea. Foodies have a good deal in common to keep the conversation flowing!

My sister belongs to a "round the world" dinner club. There are 12 members in the group that meet on the last Saturday of each month. Some are couples and others single (she's a widow). A member of the club hosts and provides the main dish. Then two others do a starter and a dessert each. Own drinks as some are teetotalers. They choose a different type of cuisine every month.  There may be acquaintances whom you think might enjoy this and the opportunityto get to know each other better. You could start with a smaller group.

I have an acquaintance who grew up in Hong Kong and has a Chinese mother and English father. She hosts a pop-up restaurant offering Asian food at her home. Hers is now a business after she got divorced, and she bought her new house specifically with this in mind as she hosts once per week at least, but when she started it was a creative outlet and for fun. At that time she only charged for ingredients. She has 'regulars' with whom she has become good friends. Conversation over dinner allows one to get to know others.

It took a long time for it to happen, but I've made a good friend through book club. We started meeting for coffee and having heart to heart chats. Our club meets once per month and we have one founding member who hogs the conversation and holds court, so that hindered a lot of one-on-one interaction.

Edited January 28 by Hannah