Let's make a list of non-degree career options for struggling youth

[Harriet Vane]

Just now, Drama Llama said:

Is college out of the question permanently, or this a capable teen who is pushing back hard on it.

For someone who loves kids, I think that preschool/daycare teaching can be a great introduction to a career.  Many people who choose these fields eventually find it frustrating to make little, or not have control of the classroom, and rethink the idea of getting a degree.  

Nannying is another field that pays well in some areas, although eventually many people need a long term plan that's less physically demanding.  

Honestly, I don't think a teenager needs a "career".  I think that a job that is stable and pays enough to live on while they explore can be a fine step. Especially if the kid is capable of college, and doesn't want to go.  

So my question was both in general (because I have these kinds of conversations with many struggling teenagers) and specific (one teenager in particular). In general, I want to have a list handy for these types of conversations.

For one teen in particular—I don’t know if this teen will ever be open to college. My hope is that as current struggles are addressed new doors may open. But honestly, at this point I don’t think college will ever be an option.

Teen definitely needs a career-type aspiration because legal adulthood is approaching quickly. Often foster kids or young adults from dysfunctional circumstances find themselves on their own far sooner than ideal. Sometimes it’s forced upon them; other times they make choices that close doors.

[Drama Llama]

2 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

 

Teen definitely needs a career-type aspiration because legal adulthood is approaching quickly. Often foster kids or young adults from dysfunctional circumstances find themselves on their own far sooner than ideal. Sometimes it’s forced upon them; other times they make choices that close doors.

I wonder if we're defining "career" differently?  

I'll give the example of my DH.  He finished school and enlisted.  He never intended to be "career military", he thought it was a way to serve his country, see the world, and support himself while he figured out what career he wanted.  Then he separated from the military, and worked construction.  Again, not a career for him, although it is for many people, but it paid the bill.  Then he met me and decided that he wanted a career that would support a family and went into law enforcement.  

A nanny can be a great job.  In my area it starts at about $20 an hour which is enough for a young person to live on, and with a few years of experience, many people can find a job which pays $30/hour and work a ton of overtime so they're making about $80K.  It's not a career.  It doesn't have a lot of advancement potential, it doesn't come with retirement or usually insurance, it's a hard job to do when your body gets old, or when you have your own young children.  But for your teens and twenties while you figure things out, it can be a great choice for someone with a healthy body, a lot of a patience, and a love of kids. 

 

[gardenmom5]

There's a huge demand for HVAC techs
 

 

[Harriet Vane]

12 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

I wonder if we're defining "career" differently?  

I'll give the example of my DH.  He finished school and enlisted.  He never intended to be "career military", he thought it was a way to serve his country, see the world, and support himself while he figured out what career he wanted.  Then he separated from the military, and worked construction.  Again, not a career for him, although it is for many people, but it paid the bill.  Then he met me and decided that he wanted a career that would support a family and went into law enforcement.  

A nanny can be a great job.  In my area it starts at about $20 an hour which is enough for a young person to live on, and with a few years of experience, many people can find a job which pays $30/hour and work a ton of overtime so they're making about $80K.  It's not a career.  It doesn't have a lot of advancement potential, it doesn't come with retirement or usually insurance, it's a hard job to do when your body gets old, or when you have your own young children.  But for your teens and twenties while you figure things out, it can be a great choice for someone with a healthy body, a lot of a patience, and a love of kids. 

 

I see what you’re saying.

I was defining career-type job as something that will pay rent and cover a vehicle, and something the person enjoys doing 40-60 hours a week. So not the cash register at McDonald’s (unless management is a possibility for that person). Each example you gave fits the bill.

Nannying may well fit the bill for this person, but I really worry teen won’t make enough to cover the bills. 

[ScoutTN]

Here, working for a nanny agency, as opposed to directly for a family, can address the need for insurance/benefits. It provides an extra layer of accountability for everyone. Hourly rates go from $20-$35/hr. Higher if one takes on some house manager type roles, in addition to straight up childcare. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I think it is going to be extremely location specific if you’re looking for a career that is going to pay enough to live on. For example, EMT and paramedics overall in my state are making good money due to competition and reasonable state level reimbursement.  One state over from me it’s not that way at all.  Activities directors at nursing homes, home health aides, ER techs, daycare teachers and even some preschool teachers are hovering around the poverty line. I know daycare teachers who make little enough to qualify for public assistance. One of my siblings is a preschool teacher in a different state, though, and makes enough to live on. I think you’ll probably have to really look at your local area to see what is paying enough to live on. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again

[Faith-manor]

55 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I think it is going to be extremely location specific if you’re looking for a career that is going to pay enough to live on. For example, EMT and paramedics overall in my state are making good money due to competition and reasonable state level reimbursement.  One state over from me it’s not that way at all.  Activities directors at nursing homes, home health aides, ER techs, daycare teachers and even some preschool teachers are hovering around the poverty line. I know daycare teachers who make little enough to qualify for public assistance. One of my siblings is a preschool teacher in a different state, though, and makes enough to live on. I think you’ll probably have to really look at your local area to see what is paying enough to live on. 

This is spot on. It is often state by state specific and sometimes within states, community specific. It is hard to say what is going to work in a different region. Then add to it that the trades licensing and tech certifications can also be very different state to state.

[EKS]

It’s not clear to me from the OP’s posts whether this teen has learning disabilities or low average/below average intelligence, but I know that these things can be issues for EMT and (even more so) paramedic training.

[Rosie_0801]

4 minutes ago, EKS said:

It’s not clear to me from the OP’s posts whether this teen has learning disabilities or low average/below average intelligence, but I know that these things can be issues for EMT and (even more so) paramedic training.

The OP said:

 

16 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

This teen in particular is absolutely not going on to college. I wish it were otherwise--teen is competent and bright enough. But teen will not consider it. 

[EKS]

20 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

The OP said:

 

Ok good—I obviously missed that.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I went and poked around my local adult education website for more ideas, but I honestly didn’t realize the costs either and that people generally cannot get financial aid(I do know that sometimes those that age out of foster care have more grants and programs available for funding, but that may not apply).  This could be a huge barrier as well, and the website noted that you can get a Pell grant for cosmetology or LPN but nothing else; they do offer student loans through Sallie Mae probably for exorbitant interest or payment plans.  This feels like it could be a large barrier for someone without money but who doesn’t want to go to college. 

For examples:

Cosmetology – 1,000 hours
Tuition: $10,800 + $100 enrollment Fee

Esthetics – 600 hours
Tuition: $8,400 + $100 enrollment Fee

60-Hour Commercial Driver’s License (CDL) Class A or B
Tuition: $4,500

Construction Equipment Operation with Industry Credentials: Forklift/Flagger/ OSHA 10
Tuition: $2,500

Heating, Ventilation, A/C and
Refrigeration (HVAC/R) – 305 hours
Tuition: $5,000 + $100 Enrollment Fee Bush Campus Ext.
Prerequisite: Must complete
entrance assessment.
This comprehensive program
includes the following core
modules; Heating & Ventilation I,
Heating & Ventilation II, Air Con-
ditioning I, Air Conditioning II,
Heat Pumps, Basic Refrigeration
I, Basic Refrigeration II, and Com-
mercial Refrigeration. Also in-
cluded is the EPA Technician Certification exam.

Manufacturing
Precision Machining – 400 Hours Tuition: $5,995 + $100 Enrollment Fee Bush Campus Ext.
Prerequisite: Must meet pre-admission assessment requirements (TABE). This machining program provides a
total of 400 hours of instruction and gives an individual the knowledge of blueprint reading, precision measure- ment, lathes and mills, CNC and basic programming skills. It will fit the needs of our local business community and provide qualified candidates for career oppor- tunities in our area.
 
Nurse Aide – 120 hours
Tuition: $1,850

Dental Assisting – 720 hours
Tuition: $6,650 + $100 enrollment fee

[PeterPan]

3 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

Nannying may well fit the bill for this person, but I really worry teen won’t make enough to cover the bills. 

Assess the situation honestly--would *you* hire your person as a nanny? It seems like a situation with very high social thinking and problem solving demands. Even as a babysitter she might be non-native, not natural.

Ok, she said no college. I wonder how old you have to be or what the prereqs would be to be an OG tutor? People with autism often like to be smart, professorial, bossy, in charge, dictatorial, pick a word. People with academic challenges sometimes make wonderful advocates and sympathetic tutors. I'm thinking a modicum of training in some kind of system could open up an interesting door, a direction they never thought of.

RBT training is brief and sometimes provided by the employer. RBT workers are in HIGH demand, constant demand, and they would put your person in a field where they interact with people they might enjoy. There are also ABA/BCBA programs where they do *not* do RBT training. 

I've known people who *thought* they were going into education, pursued degrees, and got non-traditional jobs (administrative, etc.) in autism related fields. These side avenues people don't talk about are super high in demand. They need workers who provide transportation and after school care (taking to appointments, etc.) for people on the ASD. 

There are *very brief* certificate programs for community health workers. I looked at a certificate through a local university and I think it was 13 hours, which basically meant you showed up for a day or two and boom were hireable. Now I don't think it was some swank job, but it was something my career testing said actually suited me. Like you'd be trained to give jabs, tell people to eat better, and hand them logs for their blood pressure, things like that. And apparently it's an in demand thing. Certificates that are super brief like that might open up some doors without being college and all involved. It's that step up from an entry level job into the world of people who get recommendations and advance through by showing some reliability, etc.

I've looked at certificates for my ds, and every educational place seems to have different ones with different amounts of time, different pre reqs, etc. So if you don't see anything interesting at one school you could look at 3-4 others and find totally different answers.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

18 hours ago, Brittany1116 said:

Here, phlebotomy is several months, but the others you listed are 18m to 3 years, plus exams. 

The local radiology school is connected to a hospital. You can do a two year associate’s degree program in conjunction with the local community college or a much shorter certificate program through the hospital in radiology tech. Most people do opt for the degree(probably because financial aid is then available) but it’s an option.  It’s definitely longer than the 120 hour phlebotomy or CNA classes but still not more than six months long, and often the hospital will hire a student and pay them a student wage during clinical time, then they    have a good full time job on graduation.

Due to the current emt shortage, many companies around me are hiring people, paying them minimum wage during a three month every day EMT class that includes driving training and company specific protocols, and they graduate as cleared EMT and can start working as soon as they graduate. Then a while later they’ll pay for paramedic school.

 

[alisoncooks]

A young lady I know recently was hired by a local university police force. They are paying her a salary while she is going to the training/school, and then she has a job when she finishes. She does have a degree from that university, but in a completely unrelated field. (She decided her interest was in uni police after she graduated.)

Edited December 28, 2023 by alisoncooks

[Wheres Toto]

19 hours ago, sassenach said:

CNA is 5 weeks in California. 

90 hours in NJ and you can often do the hours while working at a facility that offers the training.

[mominco]

Vocational trade schools that are approved by the state offer various courses like hvac, entry level data science,data processing,court room reporting.web page development,welding and a lot more, I know there is a list on the Texas workforce development website for Vocational trade schools.There shoule be information for  the apprenticeship programs on the same site.

 

[Wheres Toto]

Around here we have a lot of people doing private bus driving.   Mostly to private schools, mostly driving just a normal size van or suv.    

[Heartstrings]

Working through a temp agency to get office experience can be a good path.  I had office experience and was able self support as a payroll clerk right out of high school.   The receptionists at that location was paid similar and was often moved up from receptionist to accounts payable or receivables.   It mostly requires excellent customer service and some organizational skills.   

Edited December 28, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Lori D.]

If willing to do a community college vo-tech program for a 2-year AAS degree, or a trade school for the specific job education & training, check and see what kinds of programs are available in your area. Some that are available in my state:

Arts
- Culinary Arts (chef/cooking)
- Digital Arts, Web Design, Graphic Design, Animation
- Film/Video production
- Game design
- Fashion design
- Audio production

Beauty / Fitness / Wellness
- Aesthetician (skin/beauty specialist)
- Cosmetology
- Massage Therapy
- Sports Medicine

Business
- Accounting
- Hotel & Restaurant Management
- Retail Management

Computer
- CAD (Computer Aided Drafting)
- Cyber Security
- Software Programmer/Analyst
- Systems Administration/Networking

Driving
- Truck/Bus Driver (commercial license)

Education
- Early Childhood

Legal
- Court Reporting
- Paralegal

Medical
- Dental Assistant/Hygienist
- Medical Asst./Lab Tech/Records/Transcription
- Nuclear Medicine Tech
- Nursing
- Pharmacy Tech
- Phlebotomist
- Physical Therapy Tech
- Polysomnography (sleep study technician)
- Radiology
- Respiratory
- Sonography (sonogram tech)
- Speech Language /Pathology Assistant
- Veterinary Tech

Public Safety
- EMT/Paramedic
- Fire Science
- Law Enforcement

Safety & Water
- Occupational Safety Inspection
- Hydrologic (water resource technologies)
- Water Tech (waste water)

Trades
- Apprentice Meat Cutting
- Auto/Aviation
- Carpentry, Construction
- Electric, PHVAC, Plumber, Pipefitting
- Insulation
- Ironworking
- Machinist, Sheet Metal, Welder
- Millwright (large equipment install/maintain)

Other
- Interpretation for the Deaf
__________________

And then there are short-term (anywhere from 4-weeks to 1-year) education/training programs for certificates:
- bartender
- court stenographer
- fitness trainer
- locksmithing
- massage therapist
- OSHA inspector / safety training
- pet groomer
- pet trainer
- real estate agent / home inspection / licensed home appraiser

Or working in a specific industry, via hands-on training and work your way up:

“green” technologies & industries
variety of types of jobs working with: bio fuels, conservation/ecology, geothermal, hydroelectric, photo-voltaic (solar), water sustainability, wind turbines

transportation
- Forklift Operator
- Railroad: Union Pacific Railroad
- Trucking (Pima College)
- Light Rail Conductor

utilities
- variety of types of jobs working for plants that process: electric, gas, water, waste water

I know of several people who have made working at Costco into a decent career, starting at the bottom and working their way up.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Lori D.

[fairfarmhand]

6 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I went and poked around my local adult education website for more ideas, but I honestly didn’t realize the costs either and that people generally cannot get financial aid(I do know that sometimes those that age out of foster care have more grants and programs available for funding, but that may not apply).  This could be a huge barrier as well, and the website noted that you can get a Pell grant for cosmetology or LPN but nothing else; they do offer student loans through Sallie Mae probably for exorbitant interest or payment plans.  This feels like it could be a large barrier for someone without money but who doesn’t want to go to college. 

For examples:

Cosmetology – 1,000 hours
Tuition: $10,800 + $100 enrollment Fee

Esthetics – 600 hours
Tuition: $8,400 + $100 enrollment Fee

60-Hour Commercial Driver’s License (CDL) Class A or B
Tuition: $4,500

Construction Equipment Operation with Industry Credentials: Forklift/Flagger/ OSHA 10
Tuition: $2,500

Heating, Ventilation, A/C and
Refrigeration (HVAC/R) – 305 hours
Tuition: $5,000 + $100 Enrollment Fee Bush Campus Ext.
Prerequisite: Must complete
entrance assessment.
This comprehensive program
includes the following core
modules; Heating & Ventilation I,
Heating & Ventilation II, Air Con-
ditioning I, Air Conditioning II,
Heat Pumps, Basic Refrigeration
I, Basic Refrigeration II, and Com-
mercial Refrigeration. Also in-
cluded is the EPA Technician Certification exam.

Manufacturing
Precision Machining – 400 Hours Tuition: $5,995 + $100 Enrollment Fee Bush Campus Ext.
Prerequisite: Must meet pre-admission assessment requirements (TABE). This machining program provides a
total of 400 hours of instruction and gives an individual the knowledge of blueprint reading, precision measure- ment, lathes and mills, CNC and basic programming skills. It will fit the needs of our local business community and provide qualified candidates for career oppor- tunities in our area.
 
Nurse Aide – 120 hours
Tuition: $1,850

Dental Assisting – 720 hours
Tuition: $6,650 + $100 enrollment fee

Yes it is expensive for some of the training. I might look into companies or utilities that will train or pay for the training. At a utility in Nashville, if you’re hired at entry level and make it into the apprenticeship program, they’ll train and help pay for certifications. 

[Ginevra]

19 hours ago, pinball said:

To anyone who cares:

Take everything you’re reading here with a huge grain of salt.

There is a lot of erroneous info, even allowing for differences from state to state. 

I hate for someone to rule in or rule out anything based on the wrong info.

 

Here’s an idea, Pinball: What if you actually bothered to provide a cogent counter-argument to all the erroneous info you see, rather than putting inappropriate laughing emojis throughout the thread. 

[KungFuPanda]

Landscaping is hurting for labor.  I used to work for a landscaper.  There is so much work out there planning and planting gardens, cleaning leaves, mowing lawns, and delivering and stacking firewood.  The guys who own these companies are in their sixties.  Many of their friends have already retired and they are about to.  A young adult could start with a lawnmower and build up a client base.  They could work for a landscaper and learn the ropes.  You make very little money as an employee, but the real money goes to those who are willing and able to do the physical labor AND are capable of managing a business.  These owners are wealthy, but they are also suited to physical labor and tend to be workaholics.  Granted, I've only met a few so there are probably some out there that handle work-life balance a bit better.

[Scarlett]

46 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Landscaping is hurting for labor.  I used to work for a landscaper.  There is so much work out there planning and planting gardens, cleaning leaves, mowing lawns, and delivering and stacking firewood.  The guys who own these companies are in their sixties.  Many of their friends have already retired and they are about to.  A young adult could start with a lawnmower and build up a client base.  They could work for a landscaper and learn the ropes.  You make very little money as an employee, but the real money goes to those who are willing and able to do the physical labor AND are capable of managing a business.  These owners are wealthy, but they are also suited to physical labor and tend to be workaholics.  Granted, I've only met a few so there are probably some out there that handle work-life balance a bit better.

My parents hired a young man to mow their yard this summer when my dad was feeling bad. The young man works for the city, mowing etc, full time which provably pays very little but has great benefits including a pension. So he does quite a bit of side work. I could certainly see that turning into a full time business. 
As with most tradesman, physical labor jobs someone has to know how to run the business end.  Husband wife teams can be great for this. 

I know too many tradesmen who absolutely don’t know how to run a business. 

Dh is a good example. He always way under values his worth. It is one of the reasons why I am glad he doesn’t work for himself. 

[kbutton]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:57 AM, PeterPan said:

Also cookie shops that decorate cookies will probably hire people. Might be harder to get in there, but that's back to using your county board of dev disabilities to get some doors to open.

Also your state vocational rehab!!! This is also good for people who have physical issues that need job supports or retraining due to injury, etc. You don’t have to have a developmental disability to qualify. It’s broader than that.

 

[kbutton]

So, one caveat I see mentioned is wearing out physically early on…it’s worth knowing if you’re prone to repetitive motion injuries, specifically if you’re hypermobile (even if not diagnosable with an actual disorder), and if you get good benefits, seeing a PT the minute you have aches and pains. An OT might be appropriate for some job-related pain too.

For those reading along in Ohio, we have a robust career center system that takes homeschool kids, and it does NOT preclude your kid from applying to college or taking DE if they are otherwise on track to do that. Some programs put you on track to get scholarships. It’s flexible, and it can save tons of money depending on the field (especially cosmetology/hair stuff!).

Regarding medical stuff, especially if you live near a larger hospital or tertiary center, they tend to hire people with disabilities, depending on the job. We met an amazing young adult with autism (self-advocacy tag on his ID) who was a really fantastic medical assistant and also disclosed a medical diagnosis that needs to be accommodated at work. This person was treated at this facility for the medical diagnosis.

Anyway, not all medical assisting jobs are CNA things. They can be more office visit type jobs—vitals, shots, rooming patients, bandaging, etc.

Also, look at the various jobs at these larger hospitals—transport, intake/registration, supply clerks, cafeteria workers…there are a lot of jobs, and they tend to hire with diversity and disability in mind. 

[chiguirre]

OP, if your young adult is considering the military, they should look at mass communications fields. All of the services have people who take pictures, write up articles about people winning awards or doing community service, handling social media, etc. Another possibility is the chaplain's aides who help organize religious observances, provide community support, handle admin/decoration/set-up/take-down for events, etc.

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, chiguirre said:

OP, if your young adult is considering the military, they should look at mass communications fields. All of the services have people who take pictures, write up articles about people winning awards or doing community service, handling social media, etc. Another possibility is the chaplain's aides who help organize religious observances, provide community support, handle admin/decoration/set-up/take-down for events, etc.

I met a young woman journalist in the Army a couple years ago and she was loving her work.

[history-fan]

Regarding the art avenue. Animation is an area that is growing. Areas that are using animation is really increasing. Besides tv, movies and the video games many other professional fields are using animators for making videos.  There are several free and student discount programs available to try. Maya Autodesk an industry standard has student discounts, Blender is free and Unreal Engine is free. There are online classes that charge a fee as well as free online sources.  A college degree is not a requirement for many of the jobs.

[Farrar]

Some of the things that people are suggesting in art are may not explicitly require a degree, but to be successful, a person is going to be up against people who have one. So that's in things like animation, video game art, anything in film or audio production... I just wouldn't urge a young person to go all in on that route.

I do think both landscaping and cosmetology are areas that many people feel they can be creative in.

Childcare and elder care are hurting for employees everywhere, but some of that is because the wages are low. Still, for a single young person with a low budget, that's often okay.

[SHP]

On 12/29/2023 at 4:30 AM, Ginevra said:

Here’s an idea, Pinball: What if you actually bothered to provide a cogent counter-argument to all the erroneous info you see, rather than putting inappropriate laughing emojis throughout the thread. 

I agree with you re her behavior. However she is not wrong about how many of the things mentioned here are not accurate. I have gone back and forth about if I should point out all the errors or not. I haven't because I am not up for the debate. So many of the things listed require more than high school education and many things attributed to a 2 year degree are now a 4 year degree. Some 2 year degrees or a certification with the understanding that the person in the field will need to continue their education for their career to keep up with technology changes. 

To anyone looking for a no college career path talk with Vocational Rehabilitation in your state. You will likely be offered a warehouse type job no matter potential. 

If you want to know what the pay is in your area go to your state to find out what the pay really is. It gives a more accurate, and often depressing, look at the pay. Or look at job ads, though when I went to pull some up I noticed many didn't include pay. 

 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I think if you are looking for something that can just be completed with a high school education, it’s not much.  Like a PP said, at least in my area, vocational rehab is either a warehouse job or something that is further education even if it is a certification program. It may not be college, but just about anything that has any chance of paying the bills, even minimally, is going to mean further education of some sort. Childcare and in home elder care are in high demand with a low or no education requirement, but the pay may not be enough to live on.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again

[Harriet Vane]

25 minutes ago, SHP said:

I agree with you re her behavior. However she is not wrong about how many of the things mentioned here are not accurate. I have gone back and forth about if I should point out all the errors or not. I haven't because I am not up for the debate. So many of the things listed require more than high school education and many things attributed to a 2 year degree are now a 4 year degree. Some 2 year degrees or a certification with the understanding that the person in the field will need to continue their education for their career to keep up with technology changes. 

To anyone looking for a no college career path talk with Vocational Rehabilitation in your state. You will likely be offered a warehouse type job no matter potential. 

If you want to know what the pay is in your area go to your state to find out what the pay really is. It gives a more accurate, and often depressing, look at the pay. Or look at job ads, though when I went to pull some up I noticed many didn't include pay. 

 

This is a thread for ideas and possible paths to explore. My assumption on anything posted here is that I will evaluate the fit for the teen in question and dig into my local options. I value the thread because I need ideas to research.

I think there are regional differences also—it really comes down to what programs or specific options are available right where you live. 

[Ginevra]

I 100% agree that it is difficult to find any kind of living wage and stable future at all without *something* beyond high school, whether that be CC, Cert programs, apprenticeship with exams - something. In fact, I have stated on here in previous posts that I do not like the current cultural backlash against college degree from people who blithely think their neurotypical child should “just do a trade”. As a person married to a tradesman, I am keenly aware that this is NOT a simple no-degree-required path. And! Trades trash your body, something I never hear mentioned by the “Rah, Rah Trades!” crowd. 
 

However, as I understand the OP’s question, the purpose of the thread is for ideas for a kid who - at least currently - will not attend college. So. I’m sure the OP will look into options that might work for the person concerned and will not just assume that there are so many careers out there given the limitations involved. It’s brainstorming. That’s all. 
 

I agree with the part about warehouse work for vocational rehabilitation, because I saw this over and over again while working in Worker’s Comp. People have career-ending injuries working a trade job and then all the vocational rehab can offer is stocking work in a warehouse. 

[SHP]

18 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

This is a thread for ideas and possible paths to explore. My assumption on anything posted here is that I will evaluate the fit for the teen in question and dig into my local options. I value the thread because I need ideas to research.

I think there are regional differences also—it really comes down to what programs or specific options are available right where you live. 

I understand that. I just hate all the misinformation, and many things are not just regional even if they look it. It is a waste of your time to have to chase down possibilities that are suggested from outdated and incomplete information. I have done it for young adults and it is an exhausting path that isn't helped by people putting out ideas that don't reflect reality anywhere. The differences between states isn't as big as one assumes, there are national standards for so many of the things listed. For those that don't have national standards, give it time, someone (probably my child) somewhere will do a thing and then there will be national standards. 

[Corraleno]

35 minutes ago, SHP said:

I understand that. I just hate all the misinformation, and many things are not just regional even if they look it. It is a waste of your time to have to chase down possibilities that are suggested from outdated and incomplete information. I have done it for young adults and it is an exhausting path that isn't helped by people putting out ideas that don't reflect reality anywhere. The differences between states isn't as big as one assumes, there are national standards for so many of the things listed. For those that don't have national standards, give it time, someone (probably my child) somewhere will do a thing and then there will be national standards. 

I would really appreciate having what you and pinball perceive as misinformation pointed out and corrected. If the information people listed really is factually inaccurate, and not just reflecting regional differences, then there shouldn't be much to "debate" about it, and the corrections will save people from wasting time pursuing something that really isn't an option.

I wonder if some of the misunderstanding also has to do with what is considered "college" — I know that my CC offers a lot of short certificate programs that are mostly hands-on training, so I wouldn't really consider those "going to college" even if students might have to report to campus (or log into the CC portal) once a week or so. For example, my CC has a partnership with Caterpillar to provide hands-on training/internships for servicing heavy equipment, but that's not what most people think of as "college."

Another example, mentioned upthread, is that you can get certified as a phlebotomist in a few weeks, but someone who lives in an area where that's not possible might think it's BS. Yes it requires passing a certification exam, but it only requires one class and that class can be several days a week for a month, or every Saturday for 10 weeks, and the exam is generally offered as part of the class. I wouldn't put a few weeks of hands-on classes in the same category as "going to college," and the job doesn't require more than a HS diploma plus the certification exam, so to me that recommendation is still useful for someone who "doesn't want college."

Edited December 31, 2023 by Corraleno

[Farrar]

I'm sorry, but "it wasn't accurate" doesn't hold water. She laughed reacted to the OP's question and when the OP provided more information about the situation. Sure, there were some inaccuracies in what people said, but that's obviously not what was going on in her meanspirited reactions.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Farrar

[Corraleno]

On 12/27/2023 at 8:04 PM, Brittany1116 said:

Thank you. I misread it as CMA. 

CMA in my area is 6 months of classes (of which about half is coursework and half is hands-on lab) followed by 3 months of paid internship (@ $20-24/hr) while prepping for the exam. There's such a shortage here that many places are offering big sign-on bonuses plus guaranteed raises at 6 & 12 months, and even retention bonuses after 12 and 24 months.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Corraleno

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

7 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I'm sorry, but "it wasn't accurate" doesn't hold water. She laughed reacted to the OP's question and when the OP provided more information about the situation. Sure, there was some inaccuracies in what people said, but that's obviously not what was going on in her meanspirited reactions.

I’m not even sure it’s inaccuracies as much as it’s state/region/area dependent.

I am currently in the middle of trying to help my 30 year old ASD sister figure out what to do.  She’ll probably have enough from my parents to live on but needs to work if for no reason other than some socialization. She’s now been turned down twice for SSI/SSDI. Vocational rehab was worthless and their only recommendation was, yup, warehouse work(she has CP and isn’t able to lift more than 25 pounds at most). she also very much desires to move south so I’ve been trying to compare regional opportunities, and it varies so widely it’s actually really difficult to try and help her. Plus then it turns out a lot of certifications in a variety of things don’t transfer easily from state to state.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again

[Farrar]

4 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I’m not even sure it’s inaccuracies as much as it’s state/region/area dependent.

I am currently in the middle of trying to help my 30 year old ASD sister figure out what to do.  She’ll probably have enough from my parents to live on but needs to work if for no reason other than some socialization. She’s now been turned down twice for SSI/SSDI. Vocational rehab was worthless and their only recommendation was, yup, warehouse work(she has CP and isn’t able to lift more than 25 pounds at most). she also very much desires to move south so I’ve been trying to compare regional opportunities, and it varies so widely it’s actually really difficult to try and help her. Plus then it turns out a lot of certifications in a variety of things don’t transfer easily from state to state.

It's obviously really individual person dependent too. 

I'm incensed on your behalf that anyone would tell someone with CP that they should be doing warehouse work. That's some premium horse manure. And super ableist and offensive.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

4 minutes ago, Farrar said:

It's obviously really individual person dependent too. 

I'm incensed on your behalf that anyone would tell someone with CP that they should be doing warehouse work. That's some premium horse manure. And super ableist and offensive.

Their suggestion was she can sit and sort things.  I don’t know what all warehouse work entails so I really can’t speak to any of that, but it was not an appropriate suggestion. She has an associates degree in business so we were hoping they’d help place her in an office.  There’s a lot of layers that don’t have anything to do with this thread but the entire process has been ridiculous.

Preferably she’d like to be a vet tech but her physical limitations won’t allow for that.

[SHP]

3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I wonder if some of the misunderstanding also has to do with what is considered "college"

This could be a huge part of the issue. I know some people do not view community college as college. And many don't recognize that the trades are a huge part of many community colleges. There is also a weird pervasive belief that anyone can get an apprenticeship. It's not that easy. You don't just show up and say "I want an apprenticeship" and bam you have one. There is usually a wait. When I looked at one decades ago I had to test and was ranked based on multiple factors and that determined where I fell on the waiting list. 

Trades now require more than a knack for being a wrench monkey, some have blurred the lines with IT and require programming. HVAC was mentioned and to do HVAC requires knowledge of electrical, plumbing, and programming these days. I discovered this when I wanted to improve my system. I ended up being ok adding returns instead. The person who came out was technically HVAC, but had to know more than how to install a system. They needed to take measurements of the rooms, look at where the supplies and returns are, look at the airflow ect. Now I have upper and lower and they are programmed to open based on the settings on the thermostats, yes plural. We don't have a smart house or a smart thermostat, those do not do what we need. Our set up required someone who knew how to install the motors, run the low voltage wires, and hook them up and troubleshoot between multiple furnaces and thermostats, trouble shoot everything and and and the difference in comfort is amazing. 

I will work on some of the errors listed. It is Sunday which is harder for me so it may be tomorrow. I will get links as well to the national standards. Though if one steps back and really thinks about it, fulfilling the minimum standards for the state with the least requirements isn't a way to move up in a field or have any job security if/when that state or area increases requirements. 

 

This is not the same world we entered as young adults.

 

 

[Corraleno]

36 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

Preferably she’d like to be a vet tech but her physical limitations won’t allow for that.

Could she possibly do office work for an animal shelter? I imagine the pay isn't much, but it would provide her with a social outlet as well as help animals. Maybe if she started as a volunteer to get experience, she could eventually get a paid position. I'm sorry it's been so difficult to get appropriate help for her.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Corraleno
typo

[SHP]

44 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I'm sorry, but "it wasn't accurate" doesn't hold water. She laughed reacted to the OP's question and when the OP provided more information about the situation. Sure, there were some inaccuracies in what people said, but that's obviously not what was going on in her meanspirited reactions.

I missed that she laugh reacted at the OP. 

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, SHP said:

I missed that she laugh reacted at the OP. 

She also laughed at the post below — I'm not sure what she thinks is so hilarious and/or inaccurate about wanting to help troubled kids who are aging out of the foster system:

On 12/28/2023 at 9:04 AM, Harriet Vane said:

So my question was both in general (because I have these kinds of conversations with many struggling teenagers) and specific (one teenager in particular). In general, I want to have a list handy for these types of conversations.

For one teen in particular—I don’t know if this teen will ever be open to college. My hope is that as current struggles are addressed new doors may open. But honestly, at this point I don’t think college will ever be an option.

Teen definitely needs a career-type aspiration because legal adulthood is approaching quickly. Often foster kids or young adults from dysfunctional circumstances find themselves on their own far sooner than ideal. Sometimes it’s forced upon them; other times they make choices that close doors.

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Corraleno

[KSera]

2 hours ago, SHP said:

To anyone looking for a no college career path talk with Vocational Rehabilitation in your state. You will likely be offered a warehouse type job no matter potential. 

 

I agree this is more often than not the VR outcome.  Although, that’s not an option that’s even likely to be available to someone that doesn’t have a condition that qualifies them for VR services.

41 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

 

I am currently in the middle of trying to help my 30 year old ASD sister figure out what to do. … She’s now been turned down twice for SSI/SSDI. Vocational rehab was worthless and their only recommendation was, yup, warehouse work(she has CP and isn’t able to lift more than 25 pounds at most).

Solidarity. Living this reality with a loved one as well. It’s ridiculously frustrating.  And then you’ve got to love all the people who like to talk about people “deciding“ to just live on disability rather than get a job. As if most people who need disability can even get it, and for those that can, as if it even pays living expenses. 

35 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I'm incensed on your behalf that anyone would tell someone with CP that they should be doing warehouse work. That's some premium horse manure. And super ableist and offensive.

 

3 minutes ago, SHP said:

I missed that she laugh reacted at the OP. 

The grossly inappropriate laughing emojis feel really mean spirited. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

5 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Could she possibly do office for an animal shelter? I imagine the pay isn't much, but it would provide her with a social outlet as well as help animals. Maybe if she started as a volunteer to get experience, she could eventually get a paid position. I'm sorry it's been so difficult to get appropriate help for her.

She is volunteering now as a shelter dog walker. The other piece of the puzzle is that she needs to keep Medicaid, unless she can land a great job with good benefits that don’t suck up all of her paycheck. 

Most of my siblings didn’t go to college; but frankly, they married men with good jobs so they can work at the lower paying things like cosmetology, daycare/preschool teacher and home health aide. That is a terrible plan, to me, but it’s how they managed to not go to college and pay their bills.

Somedays it feels to me like unless you’re cut out for a STEM degree, life is just stacked against you(but I may be overly pessimistic). 

[Lecka]

We know someone who got a job putting together furniture, recently, through Voc Rehab.  He says it’s boring, but he’s glad he has got a job.  

For a little variety!  

[Corraleno]

1 minute ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

Somedays it feels to me like unless you’re cut out for a STEM degree, life is just stacked against you(but I may be overly pessimistic). 

DS is actually seeing this a lot with his friends who are recent graduates. The ones who got engineering or computer science degrees have great jobs right out of school, while most with BAs are in jobs that wouldn't have required a college degree at all when I was their age. A few are going back for MBAs in the hope of increasing job prospects, although I'm not sure that will make much of a difference (other than increasing debt). The one friend DS has who is making really good money with a BA (in Econ) comes from a very wealthy family, attended an Ivy (full pay), and his connections got him a job in finance that paid $120K right out of school. DS says his biggest regret in life is that his dyslexia and processing speed issues preclude any career that requires advanced math, because a general BA (or even MA) these days often doesn't lead to jobs that pay any more than an AA/AAS or even a 1-yr certificate program.

[historically accurate]

I went and pulled up my local community college and these are the certificates available here:

 

• Automotive Service
• Aviation Maintenance
• Bookkeeping
• Business Administration
• IT
• CNC Machining
• Cybersecurity (actually my DH got this one last year)
• Early Childhood
• EMT
• Fire Science
• Fitness & Sports
• Graphic Design
• Highway Construction
• Media & Communication
• Massage Therapy
• Mechatronics (my oldest will be doing these two certificates over the next year - 1 cert each semester)
• Nursing Aide (my middle got her CNA over the summer)
• Phlebotomy
• Supply Chain Management
• CDL Truck Driving
• Web Design
• Welding

I went to the second closest cc, where you get in-district tuition if they offer a program mine doesn't. These are the ones that are available there and not at my local one; it's bigger, so it does have more:

• EKG Technician
• Pharmacy Technician
• Home Inspection
• Freight Broker
• Motorcycle Technician
• Culinary
• Pastry
• Veterinary Assistant
• Real Estate Broker
• Floral Design
• Horticulture
• Medical Billing
• Hospitality Marketing
• Hospitality Management
• IT Help Desk
• Web Development
• Computer Forensics
• Emergency Dispatcher
• Architectural Design
• Tax Preparation
• Social Media Marketing

I don't know enough about most of these to know if they would get you a foot in the door or pay a living wage though.

 

[chiguirre]

1 hour ago, SHP said:

This could be a huge part of the issue. I know some people do not view community college as college.

 

 

I agree. I'd also like to point out that the military rates or MOSes that lead to high-paying contractor gigs afterwards also require long schools with fairly high failure rates. If you fail out, you are sent needs of the ______ to a job without good career prospects post-military. If you hate school, you may not enjoy learning to be an IT or an electronics tech or a mechanic in the armed forces either.