Jessa Duggar had a D&C

[Terabith]

https://www.justjared.com/2023/02/26/notoriously-pro-life-duggar-family-member-jessa-duggar-reveals-she-had-an-abortion-in-new-video-internet-responds/?fbclid=IwAR3G4wa50GAG8oNB7wpPTdUIIElgnmURnepJ_wfXVvvyXDn-LCm4h6zwPw4

Seems unclear if fetus was still alive at that point or not.  

New verse for Alanis Morissette's "Isn't It ironic?"

[prairiewindmomma]

I am grateful she had access to competent and potentially life saving healthcare even though she has pointedly advocated to ban the same procedure she chose to undergo when her own health was threatened.

Cue up: “the only moral abortion is my abortion” by Joyce Arthur. 
 

https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/

[prairiewindmomma]

https://parade.com/news/jessa-duggar-seewald-life-saving-abortion-youtube-video-february-2023
 

This article also points out that she and her medical staff considered medication to help her body pass the fetus at home (most likely misopristol) but she was advised to have a D&C given her past hemorrhage history. Texas and other states are pushing to ban this type of medication from all states right now. The current fight is over mifepristone, but misopristol is also in their sights. https://www.npr.org/2023/02/24/1159075709/abortion-drug-mifepristone-misoprotol-texas-case

Edited February 27, 2023 by prairiewindmomma

[KSera]

It sounds like she had a miscarriage followed by a D&C. I think it's kind of awful to have people gloating about it though, honestly 😥. It's one thing to point out hypocrisy, and this may well be an appropriate time to do so, but the link purposely words things to make it sound like an elective abortion rather than a miscarriage, which doesn't look like honest reporting to me. Technically, every miscarriage is an abortion (spontaneous abortion), but the wording of it seems designed to make it sound like something it wasn't. I don't know, I'm no Duggar fan and don't follow them at all, but the reporting on this rubs me wrong.

[Faith-manor]

53 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I am grateful she had access to competent and potentially life saving healthcare even though she has pointedly advocated to ban the same procedure she chose to undergo when her own health was threatened.

Cue up: “the only moral abortion is my abortion” by Joyce Arthur. 
 

https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/

Agreed. She has been hugely judgmental in the past about other women getting DnC for any reason as she felt women should wait for a miracle. Some of her social media comments to grieving women were absolutely vile!

She learned this hypocrisy from her parents. They advocated for a total ban, a "not even to save the life of the mother" in Arkansas ban, and then when Michelle had pre-eclampsia, they opted for induced labor and delivery of Josie as a micro preemie though her chances of survival were not good and though that is a medical abortion by both terminology and action even if layman's terms make a distinction.  "Rules for thee and not for me". They had previously said women should be willing to die in pregnancy.

I applaud her being able to get necessary medical treatment for her non viable pregnancy and prevention of further life threatening complications. I am sure if her four children could understand it, they would be grateful to have their mum. I am on some inner level disgusted with her for not having the guts to endure what she demanded others suffer. But, I will get over that and still be grateful she was treated properly.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Faith-manor
Typo

[Dmmetler]

The People Magazine article did exactly the opposite. 

https://people.com/parents/jessa-duggar-reveals-she-suffered-a-miscarriage/

 

And the laws in many states, including AR, don't tend to be friendly to women who are miscarrying and need a D&C or medication to help complete the process, and not all non-viable pregnancies are as cut and dried.  I think pointing out that many, many women are unable to get this care is relevant-and I think pointing out that Jessa's family has absolutely contributed to this lack is also relevant. 

 

I am glad she got the care she needed and did not have to go through what many women have to go through. I am angry that there is any question that women should get such care. 

[Katy]

I’m torn. As someone who’s had many losses, I find phrasing things in this way disturbing. 

OTOH, she may be costing women’s lives. 

I hate politics. I hate twisting pain for power and control. 95% of people who carefully examine this issue come to the exact same conclusion, from any side of the aisle. But these people don’t care about reason or right, only power. It’s disgusting. 

[KSera]

16 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

The People Magazine article did exactly the opposite. 

https://people.com/parents/jessa-duggar-reveals-she-suffered-a-miscarriage/

 

And the laws in many states, including AR, don't tend to be friendly to women who are miscarrying and need a D&C or medication to help complete the process, and not all non-viable pregnancies are as cut and dried.  I think pointing out that many, many women are unable to get this care is relevant-and I think pointing out that Jessa's family has absolutely contributed to this lack is also relevant. 

 

I am glad she got the care she needed and did not have to go through what many women have to go through. I am angry that there is any question that women should get such care. 

I agree with everything in your post here.

[prairiewindmomma]

47 minutes ago, KSera said:

It sounds like she had a miscarriage followed by a D&C. 

Please don’t think I am in the gleeful schadenfreude camp, because I am most definitely not.

I want to make a distinction about language here, because it’s very important legally right now. Technically a miscarriage involves expulsion of fetal remains from the womb. If a fetus dies in the womb but remains there (incomplete spontaneous abortion), then she has not miscarried. A D&C, which is a type of surgical abortion, may be required if the womb does not spontaneously expel the fetal remains. A surgical abortion is not dependent on a fetus being alive to be called an abortion. It is the name for the procedure. 

We, as a society, have allowed all kinds of moral stigma to be attached to medical care. We are uncomfortable with the word abortion even when a surgical abortion may have been very necessary for the mother’s health after a much wanted pregnancy loss. 
 

I think we would do well to speak clearly and normalize these words about necessary and life preserving healthcare. We need clear understanding of what is going on (even in our own lives) so that we understand what some legislators are restricting or trying to ban access to….

[KSera]

4 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Please don’t think I am in the gleeful schadenfreude camp, because I am most definitely not.

I want to make a distinction about language here, because it’s very important legally right now. Technically a miscarriage involves expulsion of fetal remains from the womb. If a fetus dies in the womb but remains there (incomplete spontaneous abortion), then she has not miscarried. A D&C, which is a type of surgical abortion, may be required if the womb does not spontaneously expel the fetal remains. A surgical abortion is not dependent on a fetus being alive to be called an abortion. It is the name for the procedure. 

 

That is an important distinction right now. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Annie G]

Glad she was able to get the care she needed/wanted. Wish every woman had the same option. 
If she had been more clear in the video she posted, some of the ambiguity could have been avoided. She said ‘the doctor said the baby didn’t look good’. And said she only spotted for 24 hours then stopped. This led to speculation over whether the baby’s heart stopped or whether there were deformities. The ultrasound seemed to show ‘no fetal heart rate’, but the speculation had already started. 
I do not think Jessa owed anyone an explanation, or that she had to tell anyone she had ever been pregnant. But yeah, when you are well known for your strong stance, maybe keep that info to your circle of family and friends.  It was smart for her to take a social media break after posting the video, because there is a lot of discussion about it. 

[pinball]

9 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Please don’t think I am in the gleeful schadenfreude camp, because I am most definitely not.

I want to make a distinction about language here, because it’s very important legally right now. Technically a miscarriage involves expulsion of fetal remains from the womb. If a fetus dies in the womb but remains there (incomplete spontaneous abortion), then she has not miscarried. A D&C, which is a type of surgical abortion, may be required if the womb does not spontaneously expel the fetal remains. A surgical abortion is not dependent on a fetus being alive to be called an abortion. It is the name for the procedure. 

We, as a society, have allowed all kinds of moral stigma to be attached to medical care. We are uncomfortable with the word abortion even when a surgical abortion may have been very necessary for the mother’s health after a much wanted pregnancy loss. 
 

I think we would do well to speak clearly and normalize these words about necessary and life preserving healthcare. We need clear understanding of what is going on (even in our own lives) so that we understand what some legislators are restricting or trying to ban access to….

This is not correct.

A miscarriage is the death of the fetus before 20 weeks gestation. Subcategories of miscarriage can be complete, incomplete, or missed.

A missed miscarriage where the dead fetus is not expelled from the uterus is still a miscarriage.

[pinball]

9 hours ago, KSera said:

That is an important distinction right now. Thanks for pointing that out.

It’s also wrong

[KSera]

2 hours ago, pinball said:

This is not correct.

A miscarriage is the death of the fetus before 20 weeks gestation. Subcategories of miscarriage can be complete, incomplete, or missed.

A missed miscarriage where the dead fetus is not expelled from the uterus is still a miscarriage.

 

2 hours ago, pinball said:

It’s also wrong

I think prairiewindmomma and you are both correct. You define different kinds of miscarriage while she was defining different medical terms for abortion. In this particular case, the person in question sounds to have had a missed miscarriage. Which would also be called an incomplete spontaneous abortion. 
 

There seems to be some disagreement about definitions of miscarriage, with some online dictionaries using the definition prariewindmomma used, but most medical sources saying it is death of the fetus before 20 weeks, with no inclusion of expulsion in the definition. Planned Parenthood defines miscarriage as “Miscarriage is when an embryo or fetus dies before the 20th week of pregnancy.” 
 

[TechWife]

Can we not make a stranger's health and medical treatment a subject of what amounts to gossip, please?

[Pam in CT]

re difference between (very old) understanding of what "miscarriage" means vs medical definition of "abortion" procedure

5 minutes ago, KSera said:

 

I think prairiewindmomma and you are both correct. You define different kinds of miscarriage while she was defining different medical terms for abortion. In this particular case, the person in question sounds to have had a missed miscarriage. Which would also be called an incomplete spontaneous abortion. 
 

There seems to be some disagreement about definitions of miscarriage, with some online dictionaries using the definition prariewindmomma used, but most medical sources saying it is death of the fetus before 20 weeks, with no inclusion of expulsion in the definition. Planned Parenthood defines miscarriage as “Miscarriage is when an embryo or fetus dies before the 20th week of pregnancy.” 
 

Thanks for shining light on this distinction.  Would that legislators writing law understood this much.

 

It goes farther even than this, into difficult times that tragically just happen vs others that are chosen; outcomes that are God's inscrutable will vs others that are sinful; women who are good vs others who are bad;  and much much more.

But, as a starting point: "miscarriage" as commonly understood, vs "abortion" as a medical term. Would that legislators writing law understood this much.

 

I'm glad Jessa got necessary care.

[wisdomandtreasures]

If she doesn't want people talking about her, maybe she shouldn't call up People Magazine for every move she makes, as her whole family has done since the early 2000s. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by wisdomandtreasures

[Faith-manor]

7 minutes ago, wisdomandtreasures said:

If she doesn't want people talking about her, maybe she shouldn't call up People Magazine for every move she makes, as her whole family has done since the early 2000s. 

And post it in YouTube videos with her family. It isn't gossip. She was forthright about it online and as part of far wrong clicks views for Hello Fresh which she markets for pay. She uploaded the videos both announcing the pregnancy, and then a big description of the loss at the same time as her promo for Hello Fresh. Straight from the horse's mouth, and if she didn't want people to talk about it, she shouldn't be marketing/making bank off the experience in as public a forum as you can get, YouTube and People Mag.

[MercyA]

2 hours ago, pinball said:

It’s also wrong

Right. prairiewindmomma said "A D&C, which is a type of surgical abortion..." A D&C *can* be a type of abortion, but it is certainly not always that. It can also be a treatment for a missed or incomplete miscarriage. It can be performed to treat other uterine conditions when there is no pregnancy at all.

We have to recognize that the common meaning of "abortion" has an entirely different connotation outside the medical field. I have never in my life heard a woman who miscarried say "I had a spontaneous abortion," even if that's what the doctor wrote in her chart.  

I agree that lawmakers don't have a good handle on some terms, but it doesn't help to have headlines saying "So-and-so had an abortion" when the people writing those headlines *know* how those words will be interpreted.  

[MercyA]

This was posted on The Sun, so take it for what it's worth. 

[Jessa] clapped back after one follower on Facebook claimed she'd had an "abortion." The TLC alum wrote: "Women have D&Cs for many reasons, not all of which involve killing a living human being. The ultrasound revealed that I had a missed miscarriage. My baby's heart had stopped beating three weeks before I had a D&C. (Btw, this was not my first D&C - it was my second. My first was two weeks postpartum Ivy's birth for retained placenta.) There's a world of difference between someone dying and someone being killed. To equate one to the other - and to a mother grieving the loss of her baby no less - is severely distasteful."

https://www.the-sun.com/entertainment/7501292/jessa-duggar-rips-follower-distasteful-pregnancy-loss-post/

[Brittany1116]

I think it's... intellectualy dishonest?... to act as though anyone outside of a medical establishment would casually refer to surgical removal of an already dead fetus as an abortion. No one is doing that.

[Guest]

I found her video heartbreaking to watch, however much I may disagree with her beliefs (or what she promotes politically). The part where she said she has questions of God, and doesn’t understand why He would give them this life for such a short time….*that*, times a thousand, was what shattered me so hard when my little girl died at birth. *That* was the bit I could never really make peace with. It felt so…pointless. Birthday/Deathday/Sameday. 
 

I think some wounds don’t really ever heal. (Evidently, right? My daughter would be 20 this year.) 

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, Pam in CT said:

re difference between (very old) understanding of what "miscarriage" means vs medical definition of "abortion" procedure

Thanks for shining light on this distinction.  Would that legislators writing law understood this much.

 

I have a friend who works for NIH. On occasion she has to pitch her program to legislators to ensure funding. She rehearsed with people above her in that organization. One time they sent her back to the drawing board to dumb down an explanation that she felt was simplified enough. On her rewrite, she used her elementary son’s public school biology book and made sure her talk contained nothing above that level. They heard it and required ANOTHER rewrite. 
 

When we vote for people who can’t understand biology on a 5th grade level there are going to be consequences. I told my friend that her mistake was using a textbook from a good school district. 

[Terabith]

I think that when a person has worked to get medical procedures made illegal, it ceases to be gossip when they publicly have announced that they have had procedures that, while not abortions, because her baby had perished, are in real danger of being outlawed because they MIGHT be used to provide an abortion to another person.  A possible consequence of a total ban on abortion is that some people who need a d&c for medical reasons may not be able to get one.  

[Pam in CT]

re legislators not understanding that of which they are writing legislation

6 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

...When we vote for people who can’t understand biology on a 5th grade level there are going to be consequences. I told my friend that her mistake was using a textbook from a good school district. 

I go back and forth, whether the larger root causal problem is legislators not understanding (as one example among many) the difference between (very old) understanding of "miscarriage" vs the medical definition of "abortion"; vs legislators not much caring about how many women bleed out or get sepsis or rupture or etc in crisis moments after which it is very, very easy for folks without any medical expertise to Monday morning quarterback about what doctors should have done differently and maybe would have had they not feared bounty hunter lawsuits or jail time. 

Perhaps ever expanding OB GYN deserts, where doctors fear to tread due to very real risks of being bounty-hunted or sent to jail by legislators who can't understand 5th grade biology or don't care enough about women to bother to learn, when  good women who want nice (white, Christian) babies face ever longer drives to get routine care and ever escalating crises when such good women can't get any care at all when every minute counts, and predictable consequences ensue ... perhaps that will, over a very long haul, start to raise consciousness.

 

In the meantime: I'm glad Jessa got necessary care.  May her sisters and daughters as well.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Jessa's declaration aside, it definitely matters what is medically noted in a chart using word "abortion" if any medical procedures with that name are either legally banned or so tightly scrutinized that doctor's won't risk doing them. 

[Idalou]

17 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re legislators not understanding that of which they are writing legislation

I go back and forth, whether the larger root causal problem is legislators not understanding (as one example among many) the difference between (very old) understanding of "miscarriage" vs the medical definition of "abortion"; vs legislators not much caring about how many women bleed out or get sepsis or rupture or etc in crisis moments after which it is very, very easy for folks without any medical expertise to Monday morning quarterback about what doctors should have done differently and maybe would have had they not feared bounty hunter lawsuits or jail time. 

 

I stopped going back and forth trying to see the problem. They do not have to Understand basic biology because they do not Care. That sentence works for most of their behavior.

[Sneezyone]

2 hours ago, Brittany1116 said:

I think it's... intellectualy dishonest?... to act as though anyone outside of a medical establishment would casually refer to surgical removal of an already dead fetus as an abortion. No one is doing that.

There in lies the rub. The medical establishment relies on precision. Legislation and legislatures are anything but precise and they are doing *that* through legislation. That has consequences. Which one is intellectually dishonest? You decide.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

2 hours ago, MercyA said:

This was posted on The Sun, so take it for what it's worth. 

[Jessa] clapped back after one follower on Facebook claimed she'd had an "abortion." The TLC alum wrote: "Women have D&Cs for many reasons, not all of which involve killing a living human being. The ultrasound revealed that I had a missed miscarriage. My baby's heart had stopped beating three weeks before I had a D&C. (Btw, this was not my first D&C - it was my second. My first was two weeks postpartum Ivy's birth for retained placenta.) There's a world of difference between someone dying and someone being killed. To equate one to the other - and to a mother grieving the loss of her baby no less - is severely distasteful."

https://www.the-sun.com/entertainment/7501292/jessa-duggar-rips-follower-distasteful-pregnancy-loss-post/

This distinction is ideological, not medical. The procedures are the same.

[LaughingCat]

2 hours ago, Brittany1116 said:

I think it's... intellectualy dishonest?... to act as though anyone outside of a medical establishment would casually refer to surgical removal of an already dead fetus as an abortion. No one is doing that.

You are wrong to think this distinction matters -- because unless the bill passed specifically identifies what is an abortion, then the courts will have to consider ALL definitions of abortion -- including the medical definition.   

 

[MercyA]

21 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

This distinction is ideological, not medical. The procedures are the same.

A D&C is a D&C, but a D&C is not always an abortion. 

[wathe]

2 hours ago, Brittany1116 said:

I think it's... intellectualy dishonest?... to act as though anyone outside of a medical establishment would casually refer to surgical removal of an already dead fetus as an abortion. No one is doing that.

Legislators literally are doing that.  But not casually.  And that's the problem.

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, MercyA said:

A D&C is a D&C, but a D&C is not always an abortion. 

The only people putting this issue in question are legislators. We’re talking about laws banning specific procedures like D&C and not distinguishing or defining abortion with any precision at all (because they don’t know!!). The effect has zero to do with ‘abortion’ and everything do to with the practice of women’s healthcare/reproductive medicine.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Corraleno]

 

29 minutes ago, LaughingCat said:

You are wrong to think this distinction matters -- because unless the bill passed specifically identifies what is an abortion, then the courts will have to consider ALL definitions of abortion -- including the medical definition.   

And Jessa Duggar is lucky that she is the "right" kind of person getting a D&C, and therefore is unlikely to be harassed or sued by right-to-lifers, as permitted by vigilante laws like the one in Texas. The "wrong" kind of woman (less white, less Christian, less conservative...) who might require the same procedure for the same reason as Jessa risks being harassed and sued and forced to prove that her medical abortion was the "morally correct" kind, adding more trauma on top of a miscarriage. ("Oh, but that's not what the politicians intended..." <eyeroll>).

17 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Texas and other states are pushing to ban this type of medication from all states right now. The current fight is over mifepristone, but misopristol is also in their sights. https://www.npr.org/2023/02/24/1159075709/abortion-drug-mifepristone-misoprotol-texas-case

And banning these drugs to prevent women from using them for the "wrong" reasons will also prevent women who need them for the "right" reasons, thereby forcing women into more expensive and risky medical procedures — at the same time that the professionals who provide those procedures are leaving. So a woman who may have been able to clear an incomplete miscarriage with a pill will instead have to travel long distances and go into debt for an unnecessary surgical procedure.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Corraleno

[wathe]

23 minutes ago, MercyA said:

A D&C is a D&C, but a D&C is not always an abortion. 

It technically is, when products of conception are being removed.  As in this case.

[Farrar]

3 hours ago, Brittany1116 said:

I think it's... intellectualy dishonest?... to act as though anyone outside of a medical establishment would casually refer to surgical removal of an already dead fetus as an abortion. No one is doing that.

But people ARE doing that. There are people who want D&C's banned or delayed when the fetus is dead because they consider it an abortion. There are doctors afraid to perform D&C's now because they might lose their licenses even when a woman's life is in danger and the fetus is dead. 

[pinball]

4 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

re difference between (very old) understanding of what "miscarriage" means vs medical definition of "abortion" procedure

Thanks for shining light on this distinction.  Would that legislators writing law understood this much.

 

It goes farther even than this, into difficult times that tragically just happen vs others that are chosen; outcomes that are God's inscrutable will vs others that are sinful; women who are good vs others who are bad;  and much much more.

But, as a starting point: "miscarriage" as commonly understood, vs "abortion" as a medical term. Would that legislators writing law understood this much.

 

I'm glad Jessa got necessary care.

Miscarriage, as defined medically, and commonly understood…means when the fetus dies. Whether the fetus remains in the womb or not, it is still a miscarriage.

would that people in this thread stop with the obfuscation 

[Sneezyone]

47 minutes ago, pinball said:

Miscarriage, as defined medically, and commonly understood…means when the fetus dies. Whether the fetus remains in the womb or not, it is still a miscarriage.

would that people in this thread stop with the obfuscation 

Unless or until legislation explicitly defines ‘abortions’ as procedures that EXCLUDE fetal tissue or remains incompatible with life (because waiting for ‘death’ and loss of cardiac activity or ‘heartbeats’ demonstrably increases the risk of maternal sepsis and death), this is a whole bunch of ego consolation and supremely unhelpful to women in need of life-saving healthcare.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Brittany1116]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

But people ARE doing that. There are people who want D&C's banned or delayed when the fetus is dead because they consider it an abortion. There are doctors afraid to perform D&C's now because they might lose their licenses even when a woman's life is in danger and the fetus is dead. 

Who and where are the legislators that say that you should not or cannot excise a fetus that has been dead for hours or days? 

I understand there are cases of intentional or accidental ambiguity in bills, but I have yet to see anyone advocate against a D&C for a missed miscarriage. 

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Brittany1116 said:

Who and where are the legislators that say that you should not or cannot excise a fetus that has been dead for hours or days? 

I understand there are cases of intentional or accidental ambiguity in bills, but I have yet to see anyone advocate against a D&C for a missed miscarriage. 

Is it your position that the consequences of ‘intentional or accidental ambiguity’ a) don’t exist b) don’t affect many women, c) aren’t intended or d) aren’t of concern to you, personally? It would violate the no politics rule to refute a, b, or c with legislative remarks but Google always provides for those in search of info.

[Wheres Toto]

Catholic hospitals have refused to do D&Cs for already deceased fetuses for decades.  Women would have to travel to a farther hospital or hope that things proceed without intervention.   The issue isn't a new one.    It's just becoming widespread and legislatively forced onto a larger population, leaving women with fewer options. 

[Rosie_0801]

42 minutes ago, Brittany1116 said:

Who and where are the legislators that say that you should not or cannot excise a fetus that has been dead for hours or days? 

I understand there are cases of intentional or accidental ambiguity in bills, but I have yet to see anyone advocate against a D&C for a missed miscarriage. 

You would find that info in the politics social group.

[pinball]

1 hour ago, Wheres Toto said:

Catholic hospitals have refused to do D&Cs for already deceased fetuses for decades.  Women would have to travel to a farther hospital or hope that things proceed without intervention.   The issue isn't a new one.    It's just becoming widespread and legislatively forced onto a larger population, leaving women with fewer options. 

Catholic doctors and hospitals know the difference between caring for septic mothers and performing an abortion on a healthy fetus in order to specifically end a healthy fetus’s life.

[MercyA]

3 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

The only people putting this issue in question are legislators. We’re talking about laws banning specific procedures like D&C and not distinguishing or defining abortion with any precision at all (because they don’t know!!). The effect has zero to do with ‘abortion’ and everything do to with the practice of women’s healthcare/reproductive medicine.

If that's happening (and I'm not doubting you), that is utterly foolish and dangerous. But when I see legislators trying to outlaw mRNA vaccines and the teaching of scientific theories in high school, very little surprises me.

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, MercyA said:

If that's happening (and I'm not doubting you), that is utterly foolish and dangerous. But when I see legislators trying to outlaw mRNA vaccines and the teaching of scientific theories in high school, very little surprises me.

It is and we agree.

[MercyA]

2 hours ago, wathe said:

It technically is, when products of conception are being removed.  As in this case.

"Products of conception?" Now that's some purposefully dehumanizing language. 

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, MercyA said:

"Products of conception?" Now that's some purposefully dehumanizing language. 

Take it up with someone else. Not interested in playing semantic games when maternal mortality is being affected real time.

[catz]

https://www.vice.com/en/article/nekpw7/i-went-to-a-catholic-hospital-during-my-miscarriageand-it-nearly-killed-me

[pinball]

9 minutes ago, MercyA said:

"Products of conception?" Now that's some purposefully dehumanizing language. 

 

10 minutes ago, MercyA said:

"Products of conception?" Now that's some purposefully dehumanizing language. 

Of course it is. And you are absolutely right to point it out. 

[MercyA]

7 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Take it up with someone else. Not interested in playing semantic games when maternal mortality is being affected real time.

It's not a game (and I wasn't quoting you). Language matters. Isn't that one of the points of this thread?

I hope I'm not callous about anyone losing their life, regardless of their age or dependency. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by MercyA