No one doing any work for group project - need advice!

[Kassia]

Dd is in her last semester of college (CS major) and has had so many group projects with most of them having almost no participation from other group members.  She always ended up doing most or all the work.

This semester, she has a senior project and, once again, the other group members aren't doing anything.  One is doing a little while the others aren't doing anything at all.  The project is very difficult and she needs help and can't do this alone.  In the past, she was always able to just do the projects herself but that's not the case this time.  

The TA can see that dd is doing all the work and has encouraged the others to participate but that's all she's done.  Dd is afraid to take this further and complain because the other group members will know she did since she's the only one doing anything.  She said she has to work with them the rest of the semester and doesn't want them mad at her.  She said that they won't see it as fair distribution of work - they will only see it as her complaint causing them to do work if that makes sense.  

I don't understand the lack of motivation or even consideration by the other students.  This has been happening for almost every project dd has had.  My older kids went to a different university and sometimes would have one group member who didn't pull their weight but nothing extreme like this.  

What can/should she do in this situation?  She has a 4.0 GPA and is worried she won't even pass this class at this point.  😞  I feel terrible that it's causing her so much stress and work.  

[Eos]

2 hours ago, Kassia said:

Dd is afraid to take this further and complain because the other group members will know she did since she's the only one doing anything.  She said she has to work with them the rest of the semester and doesn't want them mad at her.

This shouldn't be her job if the TA agrees with her.  She might never see these people again but her GPA and her senior year will be hers forever.  If the alternative is not passing the class, then she has nothing to lose but some slackers being mad at her.  I'd strongly but kindly encourage her to follow up with the TA and ask what the TA is going to do here.  She's paying for college, she gets some agency.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Eos

[HomeAgain]

She needs to document, document, document.

Every interaction with the other students should leave a paper trail.  She has a right to fight for not having to shoulder a 3x workload, and she also needs to be clear with the other members of the group.  She needs to go to the professor after she has enough documentation.

Who cares if these students are mad or not? Their emotions are not hers to manage.  Her workload is.

[Kassia]

1 hour ago, Eos said:

  I'd strongly but kindly encourage her to follow up with the TA and ask what the TA is going to do here.  

This is what I'm doing.  The TA is definitely aware of the problem but so far has just encouraged the other members to participate rather than trying to enforce.  

 

24 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

She needs to document, document, document.

Every interaction with the other students should leave a paper trail.  She has a right to fight for not having to shoulder a 3x workload, and she also needs to be clear with the other members of the group.  She needs to go to the professor after she has enough documentation.

Who cares if these students are mad or not? Their emotions are not hers to manage.  Her workload is.

The TA is very aware of the problem - dd is the only one who interacts with her, submits work, talks during the presentations, etc.   Dd can't even get the other members to approve her work before submitting it (which I don't think she needs to do since she's doing all of it).  Last night she waited a long time before submitting the work hoping to get feedback or approval or...anything from the other members but nothing!  I just don't understand at all.  But the TA knows and dd said she thinks she would back her up if she went to the professor.  Her concern is that then she'll be stuck working with three angry students for the rest of the semester and that would make her very uncomfortable.  It's obvious they have no interest in doing a good job or even getting it done.  

[HomeAgain]

2 minutes ago, Kassia said:

This is what I'm doing.  The TA is definitely aware of the problem but so far has just encouraged the other members to participate rather than trying to enforce.  

 

The TA is very aware of the problem - dd is the only one who interacts with her, submits work, talks during the presentations, etc.   Dd can't even get the other members to approve her work before submitting it (which I don't think she needs to do since she's doing all of it).  Last night she waited a long time before submitting the work hoping to get feedback or approval or...anything from the other members but nothing!  I just don't understand at all.  But the TA knows and dd said she thinks she would back her up if she went to the professor.  Her concern is that then she'll be stuck working with three angry students for the rest of the semester and that would make her very uncomfortable.  It's obvious they have no interest in doing a good job or even getting it done.  

You honestly shouldn't be shouldering the problem either.

This is a learning opportunity for a young adult who is a senior in college.  It is up to her to direct what kind of help she needs and what she is going to do about it.  The obvious options are out there, and she can choose to exercise them or not, but it's all her and none of it should be something that you are fretting about for her.

[maize]

Is it a project where all groups are doing the same thing? I might ask to be added to a different group.

[Katy]

She can choose to be abused or she can choose to go to the professor. She’s going to have the same circumstances in work. Chances are the professor knows all about it but won’t do anything until she does. I’ve worked in offices like this. She needs to learn how to handle this proactively now. Why does she think a lazy person’s opinion of her matters more than her opinion of her? 

[Hilltopmom]

She needs to go to the professor. The TA isn’t in charge.

[SKL]

If she is always doing all the work for every group project, could it be something about her group-collaboration style?

Is the whole group meeting and democratically deciding what the project will look like and who will do what?

When she asks the other members to provide their input, is she being clear and sticking to the original agreement?

Has she called for group meetings to discuss how to finish the project with a good grade?

If this was my daughter, I would recommend that she call an in-person meeting with the group members, revisit who needs to do what, and establish timelines for sharing inputs with all group members.  And then, if work isn't coming in on time, she should follow up with rather frequent emails.  If the group won't meet and agree on deliverables, she should go to the teacher and ask for a modified individual project rather than let this destroy her grade.

[Kassia]

1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

You honestly shouldn't be shouldering the problem either.

This is a learning opportunity for a young adult who is a senior in college.  It is up to her to direct what kind of help she needs and what she is going to do about it.  The obvious options are out there, and she can choose to exercise them or not, but it's all her and none of it should be something that you are fretting about for her.

I feel bad for her but I'm not actually doing anything but providing support.  She's an adult and I can guide her but there's nothing I can actually do.  

 

20 minutes ago, maize said:

Is it a project where all groups are doing the same thing? I might ask to be added to a different group.

No, each group is working on a different project.  

 

15 minutes ago, Katy said:

She can choose to be abused or she can choose to go to the professor. She’s going to have the same circumstances in work. Chances are the professor knows all about it but won’t do anything until she does. I’ve worked in offices like this. She needs to learn how to handle this proactively now. Why does she think a lazy person’s opinion of her matters more than her opinion of her? 

The professor doesn't work with the students.  It's just the TA.  For senior project, it's every senior in the entire graduating class in the major so there are at least 300 students?  Maybe 500?  I don't know.  But he has no idea.  She doesn't care about the opinions of the other students but she doesn't want to be in a hostile work environment for the rest of the semester. 

[lmrich]

Take her communications with her group to the  professor and talk about it. This is a common problem; there is a solution.

(and it should   be noted even if her group members rally  at the last minute and get the work done minuntes before the deadline) 

My dd essentially proved should could be a project manager while working in group situations. She or the group members broke down the task, assigned them, create deadlines,  arranged group meetings, etc.. She documented who attended, who got their work done and when. 

[Kassia]

1 minute ago, SKL said:

If she is always doing all the work for every group project, could it be something about her group-collaboration style?

Is the whole group meeting and democratically deciding what the project will look like and who will do what?

When she asks the other members to provide their input, is she being clear and sticking to the original agreement?

Has she called for group meetings to discuss how to finish the project with a good grade?

If this was my daughter, I would recommend that she call an in-person meeting with the group members, revisit who needs to do what, and establish timelines for sharing inputs with all group members.  And then, if work isn't coming in on time, she should follow up with rather frequent emails.  If the group won't meet and agree on deliverables, she should go to the teacher and ask for a modified individual project rather than let this destroy her grade.

I think part of the problem is motivation.  Some students don't care about their grade as long as they pass.   She wants to maintain a 4.0.  So there is a big difference between students and how much work they are willing to do.  

It's truly hard to believe without seeing the proof but the other students don't even show up for meetings.  Not even with the TA.  Last semester one of her groups was so bad that it could have been a reality show.  If she didn't send me screenshots of the other students' excuses I wouldn't have believed these students were as bad as they were.  She tries to accommodate their schedules and then they don't show up for meetings.  It's awful.  She's had some good groups (and one awesome one) but most have been bad.

[HomeAgain]

1 minute ago, Kassia said:

I feel bad for her but I'm not actually doing anything but providing support.  She's an adult and I can guide her but there's nothing I can actually do.  

 

You are actually doing something more.  You are going out and curating solutions while being worried about her treatment.

I get it.  I have a 23yo and it's hard to step back sometimes.  But you really shouldn't be asking how to solve her problem.  That's all on her.  It's up to her to find that information, decide what to do with it, and use you as a safe venting place.  This is a workplace problem she needs to be comfortable handling while also standing up for her needs.

Please, take a moment and just think about your role here and what you should be providing her.  We are not it.

[Indigo Blue]

Warning, huge rant following: I’m so angry for your daughter, Kassia. It was this way for both my sons in college. It is beyond frustrating and unfair. These things are just assigned and no one pulls their weight. Then the whole group is graded equally. The worst part is absolutely nothing is done. In the real work world, these people are weeded out. You don’t join a team of engineers and sit and twiddle your thumbs. My attitude is BAD about this because I’ve never witnessed this go well at any time. Even in high school. So what purpose does it serve? If it can’t be assigned and graded according to level of participation and academic merit, then why assign them? Grade them fairly. Let the slackers fall through the cracks. THAT would serve a purpose in life. You don’t pull your weight in a group, you don’t get the grade. 
 

Also, I would hate to be a student in this situation and, in addition to all the other frustration, for my parents to have the mentality that it’s “my burden alone to bear” because I now need to be an adult. 
It’s one thing to hover too much, but another to guide, support, and give advice. There isn’t anything you can actually do, but you can help guide her. Absolutely do it. 

2 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

Who cares if these students are mad or not? Their emotions are not hers to manage. 

I just made a thread about that. I know it’s easier said than done, but those students don’t care one iota about how your daughter feels. If she is having to do all the work anyway, and it’s the last semester, what is the worst thing that could go wrong? I genuinely want to know….how would this affect her? She literally has weeks left. 
 

Both my sons said it’s unbelievable how many people can just somehow skate by in college, cheating, slacking, and half-@ssing their way through. There is never any accountability because as long as the school has their paying customers, it’s not their problem. 
 

Rant over. Off soapbox. 
 

If it were me, I’d give guidance and support. Maybe she will say something. I hope this all works out for her. It did for my sons. Honestly, I don’t think they ever spoke up. It’s sad to say, but they seemed to resign themselves to the fact that there seemed to be no recourse. If I remember correctly, their grades were only slightly affected by the time the instructor curved the grades and such. I hope this ends well for your daughter. I know you are proud of her for working so hard in spite of all this. 

[Melissa Louise]

This is every group project my girls ever did at uni.

This is why they hated group work.

It was always a choice between doing most of the work and not doing well on the project.

My girls did all the things mentioned up thread - without any success.

As it was, so it shall be.

[Matryoshka]

Something similar happened to my dil in her senior cs project. She did at least have one other person willing to work, but the other two were not just dead weight, tthey'd copy random code off the internet that both didn't work and was obviously plagiarized. 

She went to the prof and it was agreed to split the project so the slackers would work on a complementary app... so technically the same project, but separate code, so it was obvious whose work was whose and could be evaluated separately. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Matryoshka

[Kassia]

29 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

You are actually doing something more.  You are going out and curating solutions while being worried about her treatment.

I get it.  I have a 23yo and it's hard to step back sometimes.  But you really shouldn't be asking how to solve her problem.  That's all on her.  It's up to her to find that information, decide what to do with it, and use you as a safe venting place.  This is a workplace problem she needs to be comfortable handling while also standing up for her needs.

Please, take a moment and just think about your role here and what you should be providing her.  We are not it.

Maybe I worded things wrong but I'm looking for ways to guide and support her through this.  I feel bad for her and don't want to tell her the wrong thing so I came here looking for others' experience and advice.  I'm not telling her what to do or getting answers for her or finding someone to help her do the work for her.  

 

@Indigo Blue thank you so much.  Your post is exactly how I'm feeling.  All of my kids have had issues with this in college and high school but never to this extent.  

[Indigo Blue]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

This is every group project my girls ever did at uni.

This is why they hated group work.

It was always a choice between doing most of the work and not doing well on the project.

My girls did all the things mentioned up thread - without any success.

As it was, so it shall be.

Yep, and it’s ridiculous and something should change. But it probably won’t.

[Eos]

39 minutes ago, Kassia said:

she doesn't want to be in a hostile work environment for the rest of the semester. 

Except she already is.  I'm on team mom-support-for-undergrads is a good thing.  Obviously you can't fix it for her but you can back her to the hilt as she self-advocates.

[Kassia]

Just now, Eos said:

Except she already is.  I'm on team mom-support-for-undergrads is a good thing.  Obviously you can't fix it for her but you can back her to the hilt as she self-advocates.

No, she has no environment now because the other students won't engage.  Any time in the past that she's tried to get other group members to contribute they acted like she was making them do extra/additional work - they didn't see it as doing their fair share.  Usually she could just do most of it herself but this time she doesn't feel like she can pull it off.  

[Melissa Louise]

1 minute ago, Indigo Blue said:

Yep, and it’s ridiculous and something should change. But it probably won’t.

Yeah, mine went down all the paths to deal with this, and in the end, doing the work was less time consuming and aggravating than dealing with the group. It's not a problem that's been replicated for them in the workplace, so something happens to people between uni and work - maybe the knowledge there's a paycheck riding on their willingness and ability to step up and do the job.

[Indigo Blue]

3 minutes ago, Eos said:

Except she already is.  I'm on team mom-support-for-undergrads is a good thing.  Obviously you can't fix it for her but you can back her to the hilt as she self-advocates.

This. 

[Indigo Blue]

1 minute ago, Kassia said:

Any time in the past that she's tried to get other group members to contribute they acted like she was making them do extra/additional work - they didn't see it as doing their fair share. 

Unbelievable.

[Kassia]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

Yeah, mine went down all the paths to deal with this, and in the end, doing the work was less time consuming and aggravating than dealing with the group. It's not a problem that's been replicated for them in the workplace, so something happens to people between uni and work - maybe the knowledge there's a paycheck riding on their willingness and ability to step up and do the job.

Ds3 was once in a group project where no one else did anything.  He was able to send proof to the professor and the professor allowed him to do just part of the project on his own.  It was a huge relief.  

[Eos]

Just now, Kassia said:

Ds3 was once in a group project where no one else did anything.  He was able to send proof to the professor and the professor allowed him to do just part of the project on his own.  It was a huge relief.  

This seems like a solid solution, can she do this?

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Kassia said:

Ds3 was once in a group project where no one else did anything.  He was able to send proof to the professor and the professor allowed him to do just part of the project on his own.  It was a huge relief.  

In her final year, dd1 got a disability provision that exempted her from group work and her stress went way down. It was hard being the autistic girl who was also the only one prepared to manage a group, allocate work, chase up others, and make up for their unwillingness to contribute.

[Matryoshka]

It's not a problem that's been replicated for them in the workplace, so something happens to people between uni and work - maybe the knowledge there's a paycheck riding on their willingness and ability to step up and do the job.

Those people get weeded out of the workplace when they can't get through the technical interview. And this is why they have technical interviews. 

(Quote feature is broken on my phone sorry for weird formatting)

[Kassia]

Just now, Eos said:

This seems like a solid solution, can she do this?

I have no idea if that's possible or if the professor would allow it.  It would definitely be her preference.  I don't know if she'll go to the professor though.  I know some professors don't want to hear about it because they feel that's the whole point of the group project - to get everyone to work together.  So that's supposed to be part of the learning process except it's not.  

[Indigo Blue]

6 minutes ago, Kassia said:

So that's supposed to be part of the learning process except it's not.  

Exactly.

[Indigo Blue]

I hope you remember to update, Kassia! I hope to hear it worked out for her. 

[Harriet Vane]

Kassia, both of my kids experienced this, more so my daughter. We all hate academic work projects for this reason. It was especially astounding in my daughter’s case, as she is an extremely diplomatic person who is fabulous at managing teams. She went to an excellent, flagship university but inevitably there would be slackers. It was unbelievably stressful.

I vote she tell the professor or ask the TA to be more assertive with the group. Actually if she can be individually graded separate from the group that would be better. Her GPA is something she will deal with for life but unhappy dysfunctional people will only be around another two months.

[Starr]

College students in our community have said professors ask for a breakdown on who did what part of the project and for them to write a review. Perhaps the TA can implement something like that.

[BusyMom5]

My DD was in the same position- last semester she was a 19 year old in a group with all men, all older than she is, including one around 30.   They had to give reviews of each other over the weeks and let's just say their view of her was not favorable.  Bossy, direct- meanwhile of 3 men, only one was willing to actually work on the project.  If they did add code, it was wrong.  It was a longer project, with certain parts needing coded before other parts could be started, so DD made deadlines for each part that were totally ignored.   My DD was the only one who actually knew how to code.  I'm not sure how, but the professor could tell who coded what, and knew she had coded about 90% of the project.   I told her all those words they used to describe her, if told about a male,  would be turned into words like self-assured, confident, assertive, take-charge. It really bothered her that her teammates didn't like her- though she didn't like them either.  

What did I do? 

I encouraged her to be professional when assigning and asking about tasks,  with a paper trail.  I told her to take notes in each meeting,  with assignments for each person on the team (Sam will complete X by April 1, DD will proof-read it by April 3.  Joe will complete Y  by April 3.  DD will proof-read it, then combine with part X by April 5.)  And then follow up- Sam did not complete X by Date. Sent reminder e-msil on Date. Then bring it up at the next group meeting.  Of course, that still didn't work. I told her this was the professional thing to do, create a paper-trail.  The goal for her wasn't the coding, it was the managing of the team.

I told her that part of the problem was a power thing- 19 year old girl in charge of 3 men from 20-30.  That was never going to end well!  The teachers put the top students in charge of the groups, then assign in order of descending grades.  She got 2 duds!  

Once it was clear the project wasn't going to be completed, I told her to talk to the professor, as he's like the boss.  She doesn't have the authority to "fire " her teammates, but if this was a job, her boss would need to know the other employees weren't working.  He assured her that her grade wouldn't be hurt (also straight A kid), but to keep working on it.  

At the presentation, DD had about 90% of the code that they knew was hers.  When asked about it, the teammate that did 10% said she did 75% of the work and really carried their team.  The 30 year old was a grump- I'm not sure if he even showed up.  The other guy was just there,  but couldn't answer any questions about the project or the code.  Grades were given based on what they contributed.   

 

Fast forward to this semester- she's in Masters level classes and on a team,  again!  This time they are working a lot better- and when one was flakey one guy sent him a message-  Hey, you going to do this or not?  Point blank.  See, men can say those things and its taken completely differently!  Its been a much better experience.   There are deadlines for each part of the project, and everyone comes to meetings.  She thinks the students at this level are a lot more serious about actually learning to skills, not just copy and paste.  

I am sure there will be more bad projects in her future,  but they are a learning experience!  I'd suggest a paper trail and talking to the professor, in an effort to protect her GPA.  Or, since she's a Senior,  pass and let it go.  Focus on lining up a job, and just moving on.  

[TechWife]

2 hours ago, SKL said:

If she is always doing all the work for every group project, could it be something about her group-collaboration style?

Is the whole group meeting and democratically deciding what the project will look like and who will do what?

When she asks the other members to provide their input, is she being clear and sticking to the original agreement?

Has she called for group meetings to discuss how to finish the project with a good grade?

If this was my daughter, I would recommend that she call an in-person meeting with the group members, revisit who needs to do what, and establish timelines for sharing inputs with all group members.  And then, if work isn't coming in on time, she should follow up with rather frequent emails.  If the group won't meet and agree on deliverables, she should go to the teacher and ask for a modified individual project rather than let this destroy her grade.

This, exactly. If she has documentation that she has done these things already, she should take it to the professor & ask if she can do an individual project instead. At least in the workplace, people can - and do - get fired for this stuff.

Have they come up with a schedule for deliverables and is that schedule published so everyone can access it? 

[maize]

I think it is fabulous that she is discussing the problem with you and that you are crowdsourcing experience/potential solutions. It's an entirely appropriate approach to navigating a challenging situation. I don't at all understand the "let her handle it on her own" advice; I was the kid/young adult who always tried to handle everything on my own and it took me far longer than it should have to learn to turn to others for advice and help. Mom isn't imposing herself on her daughter, nor is mom calling the professor herself; she's just helping the daughter figure out what options might be available to her.

Edited February 25, 2023 by maize

[EKS]

Just reading this thread is stressing me out.  When will professors get a clue that the only person who benefits from group projects is them?  As in, there are fewer things to grade.

When I went to college the first time back in the 80s, there was not a single group project.  Now they are ubiquitous--even in an online setting!  I honestly think that many of the professors who assign them never actually had to deal with them themselves as students, since a lot of professors are around my age.

They give lip service to the idea that this gives "real world" experience.  But I've worked in the real world, and it really isn't the same.

Anyway, I've dealt with the slackers in a few different ways. I started out by doing all the work myself and not saying anything.  Then I shifted to doing it all myself and being honest with the instructor about who did what.  Most recently I did my own thing and informed the instructor that part of the project was missing because one group member didn't pull his weight.  All cases resulted in an A.

If I were your daughter, I'd meet with the TA to discuss options.  And the idea of switching groups sounds like a good one!

[happi duck]

When my youngest was in college it was clear each class was required to include group projects but their profs all graded each student separately to avoid the problems mentioned in this thread.  It was so much better!  They could experience working in a group without the drama or fear of being dragged down.

[KSera]

2 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

But you really shouldn't be asking how to solve her problem.  That's all on her.  It's up to her to find that information, decide what to do with it, and use you as a safe venting place.  This is a workplace problem she needs to be comfortable handling while also standing up for her needs.

Please, take a moment and just think about your role here and what you should be providing her.  We are not it.

My dh runs work dilemmas by me to seek input sometimes, despite being a very capable adult who’s good at his job. I can’t imagine telling him he’s an adult and shouldn’t be asking me. 

47 minutes ago, Starr said:

College students in our community have said professors ask for a breakdown on who did what part of the project and for them to write a review. Perhaps the TA can implement something like that.

This is the most successful group project setup my kids have had. Students seem to be a little better about contributing when they know there will be an accounting of who did what, and for those who aren’t, it doesn’t affect everyone else’s grade. One of mine did have to have the embarrassment though of standing up and giving a group presentation where only her part had been done, so it was only a partial presentation (but she got a good grade still because it was clear she had done the work and the others hadn’t.)

[EKS]

7 minutes ago, KSera said:

My dh runs work dilemmas by me to seek input sometimes, despite being a very capable adult who’s good at his job. I can’t imagine telling him he’s an adult and shouldn’t be asking me.

Seriously.  It's not like the OP intends to actually run interference for her daughter with the professor.  

One thing mature adults do is talk to other adults about how to approach difficult situations.  I am always happy to discuss anything with my adult children.

[AmandaVT]

35 minutes ago, maize said:

I think it is fabulous that she is discussing the problem with you and that you are crowdsourcing experience/potential solutions. It's an entirely appropriate approach to navigating a challenging situation. I don't at all understand the "let her handle it on her own" advice; I was the kid/young adult who always tried to handle everything on my own and it took me far longer than it should have to learn to turn to others for advice and help. Mom isn't imposing herself on her daughter, nor is mom calling the professor herself; she's just helping the daughter figure out what options might be available to her.

I do this as an adult, too, when I'm in a tricky work situation. Collaborating with friends/colleagues/family to help problem solve is a mature thing to do, and can also be very helpful!

[Arcadia]

@Indigo Blue in the workplace, “slackers” get by through being good at flattering the boss. Or the person is very near retirement age and the boss doesn’t want to be accused of ageism so let the person slack for a few years. 
 

For the OP’s case, her daughter’s group mates are not going to do anything because they know her daughter cares about grades. So they can do nothing and OP’s daughter would still do the work to maintain her GPA.  
When I was in engineering school, we had a presentation and q&a for each project so it was obvious who didn’t even bother to read the submitted project. My lecturers would just tell us to individually explain the portion we did and ask us questions. 

[Kassia]

55 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

My DD was in the same position- last semester she was a 19 year old in a group with all men, all older than she is, including one around 30. 

Or, since she's a Senior,  pass and let it go.  Focus on lining up a job, and just moving on.  

Last semester, dd was in a group of 6 with only one student doing any work with her.  She also was the youngest and the only female.  She found that the other guy (the oldest in the group) that was doing any work got much better results from the uncooperative members than she did.

Fortunately, she does have a job lined up for after graduation so she just needs to pass this class but I know grades still mean a lot to her and I hate to see her get a bad grade due to other students not doing their fair share (or even less than that would be helpful - just something!).

 

50 minutes ago, TechWife said:

 

Have they come up with a schedule for deliverables and is that schedule published so everyone can access it? 

The TA is definitely aware of the problem and has come up with some ways to push the other members to do things but they still aren't doing anything.  

16 minutes ago, EKS said:

Seriously.  It's not like the OP intends to actually run interference for her daughter with the professor.  

One thing mature adults do is talk to other adults about how to approach difficult situations.  I am always happy to discuss anything with my adult children.

 

11 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

I do this as an adult, too, when I'm in a tricky work situation. Collaborating with friends/colleagues/family to help problem solve is a mature thing to do, and can also be very helpful!

I come here to the Hive for just about anything I have to make a decision on.  I love getting other points of view and opinions.  🙂  

[Bootsie]

I think many students run into this in a group project.  It can be intensified at a large school that has many unmotivated students who just want a diploma.  There are several suggestions I would have for my child.  First, she needs to be clear about the role of the TA in this course.  Does the TA provide a a grade?  Does the TA have an authority over struture of groups or assignments?  Or, it the TA simply implementing predesigned coursework and serving as a resource.  The term TA can cover a broad range of situations; the particular situation for this course will determine whether the TA has any options to deal with the situation.

Second, I would check the syllabus and course assignments and make sure I know the expectations and grading for the group work.  Is there a procedure set out for handling disagreements among group members?  I know some professors who rely heavily on group work have detailed guidelines regarding when and how they will get involved or mediate.  I know others who part of the assignment of the group work is for the group, in the beginning, to set up procedures that they will follow to mitigate these issues.  Some professors allow for a student to change groups; some professors allow for a student to break from a group and work on their own; some professors provide differentiated grades based upon the contribution of the different team members.  

Some would also depend upon whether this is one big semester-long project or a series of smaller projects.  As a professor, I recently had a student who came to me in a similar situation.  What I suggested was either (1) emailing the group regarding the upcoming project and stating specifically what part of the upcoming project he was volunteering to do as his part of the contribution and when he could have it completed (I suggested this be days before the project was due--stating that he had plans and would be unavailable over the following days to work on the project, hence he had to get ahead on his part) and perhpas specifically stating what the other parts of the project were that someone was going to have to volunteer for--thus changing the dynamics the group had fallen into expecting him to do all the work or (2) take a leadership role in the group and delineate the jobs, make suggestions of who could do what and by when, and a specific time and place for the group to meet to go over the project.  

 

[Kassia]

I did find out that parts of the project are broken up between group members so I think she can just do her part and not worry about the other parts not being done other than the embarrassment of the full project not working for the presentation.  I'll find out more later but wanted to update a little.  There are still other group efforts such as the weekly progress report and things like that where she is the only one doing the work and can't even get the other members to give feedback or approval to submit but I'm glad that it seems she won't be responsible for the entire finished product.  

[Jaybee]

23 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

(2) take a leadership role in the group and delineate the jobs, make suggestions of who could do what and by when, and a specific time and place for the group to meet to go over the project.  

I'm an old grouchy grandma at this point (not always grouchy, but being in a situation like this would make me so). But if I were to go back to school and be assigned group projects, this is what I would do as an adult in this situation: After little to no cooperation, I would be clear in communications (if not in person, through however they are communicating), that I would be doing _____ part of the project. *These* are the parts left, and there need to be volunteers. I would inform that I would be turning in with my part of the project a page showing who was responsible for which parts, how many meetings were attended or communications received by group members, etc. I know it would make people mad, but it also takes charge to get things done, and might be more like workplace dynamics. For many of us, being decisive in a situation like this is a learned skill, and intimidating sometimes due to power dynamics, but it is a good skill to learn.

[Kassia]

2 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

 But if I were to go back to school and be assigned group projects, this is what I would do as an adult in this situation: After little to no cooperation, I would be clear in communications (if not in person, through however they are communicating), that I would be doing _____ part of the project. *These* are the parts left, and there need to be volunteers. I would inform that I would be turning in with my part of the project a page showing who was responsible for which parts, how many meetings were attended or communications received by group members, etc. I know it would make people mad, but it also takes charge to get things done, and might be more like workplace dynamics. 

I think a big part of the problem is the motivation differences within the group - some members might be happy with a C- so they can just pass while others (like my dd) want to get the highest grade possible.  

 

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

This, exactly. If she has documentation that she has done these things already, she should take it to the professor & ask if she can do an individual project instead. At least in the workplace, people can - and do - get fired for this stuff.

Have they come up with a schedule for deliverables and is that schedule published so everyone can access it? 

I agree with this and all who have suggested she approach the professor with all her documentation and ask to either be graded individually or be given an alternative individual project. 
 

Her documentation should include all attempts to get group members to engage and their responses (or lack thereof).

She may want to include verbiage something like “I am working at my full capacity for producing quality work.” And that she is not willing to let the others’ lack of work ethic result in a lesser grade on her permanent transcript. 
 

fwiw, group projects aren’t about the academic subject as much as they are sociology experiments, training people for what they will likely face in the workplace. I’m sure we’ve all seen a thousand memes about that. 
 

@KassiaI hope all turns out well for your dd. I honestly think Profs anticipate this issue and just sit back and wait to see which students will come forward and whether or not they can advocate for themselves in a professional manner or if they just complain. Learning to property advocate for oneself in such situations is a valuable part of the lesson. 

[Jaybee]

3 minutes ago, Kassia said:

I think a big part of the problem is the motivation differences within the group - some members might be happy with a C- so they can just pass while others (like my dd) want to get the highest grade possible.  

 

Right. Thankfully, in college I didn't have too many group projects, but this is how it was in high school for me. But I would somehow make it show up in my report what each person was responsible for, so it is clear to the professor who did what. 

[AmandaVT]

12 minutes ago, Kassia said:

I did find out that parts of the project are broken up between group members so I think she can just do her part and not worry about the other parts not being done other than the embarrassment of the full project not working for the presentation.  I'll find out more later but wanted to update a little.  There are still other group efforts such as the weekly progress report and things like that where she is the only one doing the work and can't even get the other members to give feedback or approval to submit but I'm glad that it seems she won't be responsible for the entire finished product.  

I'm super petty, so if it were me, I'd be submitting my unanswered emails to my group along with my final project. I'd add a note to my final submission letting my professor know that I tried, on many occasions, to engage my group, but they refused to do their part.

[Bambam]

One of mine ran into this for one class. Several projects, she was really the only one doing the work. I suggested she let the professor know since there didn't seem to be a well set up way to make it obvious who had done the work/which part they were responsible for/etc. She did. She did the last project solo. She got a good grade. She has no idea what happened to the other students, nor at that point, did she really care. 

She doesn't mind group projects *IF* all the students help or if the work/reporting is set up so it is clearly defined who did what/etc. Some professors are good at setting that up, some are not - or maybe it is the course work itself which lends to this. 

But, yes, to strongly disliking group projects.