Ukraine

[Dmmetler]

I was watching a church service with my mother, and the organist played "I Vow to Thee, My Country" in medley with the Ukranian National Anthem. In a super Trump-supporting area. I don't know how many people caught it, but I thought it was awesome. 

[TravelingChris]

8 hours ago, Grace Hopper said:

I noticed one of the streaming channels (Netflix iirc) has a new flick called Red Notice. Same story, or just coincidental title?

 

No, that one is about an art thief.  

[mommyoffive]

Good news? 

Ukraine agrees to meet with Russia at Belarus border (msn.com)

[Corraleno]

14 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Good news? 

Ukraine agrees to meet with Russia at Belarus border (msn.com)

No, just more theater. Putin will claim that they tried to negotiate in good faith but Ukraine refused to be reasonable, so Ukrainians brought the destruction on themselves by their unwillingness to "compromise" — i.e. surrender. No one thinks anything useful will come from it.

[Eos]

Dd is flying back to Switzerland tomorrow.  She's very stressed, but I feel pretty sure that since that's where all the money is, their grid will not be targeted.  The Swiss have already said they're not taking sides because money I mean neutrality.  

[Corraleno]

EU is sending desperately needed fighter planes to Ukraine:

"The EU's foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said during the Q&A portion of a press conference that member states will provide fighter jets to Ukraine, not just ammunition. "[Ukrainian Foreign] Minister Kuleba has been asking us that they need the kind of fighter jets that the Ukrainian army is able to operate. And we know what kind of planes, and some member states have these kind of planes," Borell said, in what's likely a reference to Soviet-era jets possessed by Eastern European countries."

From NATO:

"Belgium, Canada, the Czech Republic, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Latvia, Lithuania, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, the United Kingdom and the United States have already sent or are approving significant deliveries of military equipment to Ukraine. Ukraine has already received critical weapons, including Javelin missiles and anti-aircraft missiles, from NATO Allies, as well as millions of euros of financial assistance. Albania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Denmark, Hungary, Iceland, North Macedonia, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, the United Kingdom and the United States are offering humanitarian aid or opening their borders to Ukrainian refugees. Croatia, Poland and Romania are already welcoming Ukrainian refugees. Italy is also providing immediate financial assistance to the Ukrainian government, and Turkey has deepened its defence ties with Ukraine and delivered humanitarian aid." 

Sweden, which is not a member of NATO, is also sending 5,000 anti-tank weapons, 5,000 helmets, 5,000 body shields, 135,000 field rations, and $50 million in funding directly to the Ukrainian military. Even Hungary has agreed to send 100K liters of fuel and 28 tons of food. 

[Ting Tang]

53 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Good news? 

Ukraine agrees to meet with Russia at Belarus border (msn.com)

I wish. I saw a headline that says Belarus is joining Russia in fighting, so this seems odd to me.

[mommyoffive]

2 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

I wish. I saw a headline that says Belarus is joining Russia in fighting, so this seems odd to me.

I saw that too but on Fox.  

[Ting Tang]

16 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

I saw that too but on Fox.  

I have been reading my phone, and a few are reporting it. I don’t know if there is truth to it, but it just doesn’t seem like a neutral place, that’s for sure!  

[Spy Car]

26 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

EU is sending desperately needed fighter planes to Ukraine:

"The EU's foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said during the Q&A portion of a press conference that member states will provide fighter jets to Ukraine, not just ammunition. "[Ukrainian Foreign] Minister Kuleba has been asking us that they need the kind of fighter jets that the Ukrainian army is able to operate. And we know what kind of planes, and some member states have these kind of planes," Borell said, in what's likely a reference to Soviet-era jets possessed by Eastern European countries."

From NATO:

"Belgium, Canada, the Czech Republic, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Latvia, Lithuania, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, the United Kingdom and the United States have already sent or are approving significant deliveries of military equipment to Ukraine. Ukraine has already received critical weapons, including Javelin missiles and anti-aircraft missiles, from NATO Allies, as well as millions of euros of financial assistance. Albania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Denmark, Hungary, Iceland, North Macedonia, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, the United Kingdom and the United States are offering humanitarian aid or opening their borders to Ukrainian refugees. Croatia, Poland and Romania are already welcoming Ukrainian refugees. Italy is also providing immediate financial assistance to the Ukrainian government, and Turkey has deepened its defence ties with Ukraine and delivered humanitarian aid." 

Sweden, which is not a member of NATO, is also sending 5,000 anti-tank weapons, 5,000 helmets, 5,000 body shields, 135,000 field rations, and $50 million in funding directly to the Ukrainian military. Even Hungary has agreed to send 100K liters of fuel and 28 tons of food. 

The 5,000 NLAW anti-tank weapons, co-developed by the UK and Sweden, are devastating. The Ukrainians have already destroyed many Russian tanks using these weapons.

These, plus American anti-tank Javelin missiles, plus tank-killing Turkish drones make tanks very highly vulnerable.

The Azerbaijanis completely changed the military situation in the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh when they wiped out Armenian tanks and artillery positions using the same Turkish (plus Israeli) drones.

Bill

 

 

 

[AnotherNewName]

53 minutes ago, Eos said:

Dd is flying back to Switzerland tomorrow.  She's very stressed, but I feel pretty sure that since that's where all the money is, their grid will not be targeted.  The Swiss have already said they're not taking sides because money I mean neutrality.  

While not applying their own sanctions, the Swiss announced today they will be applying the EU sanctions on the targeted individuals.

[Melissa in Australia]

54 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

I have been reading my phone, and a few are reporting it. I don’t know if there is truth to it, but it just doesn’t seem like a neutral place, that’s for sure!  

 

54 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

I have been reading my phone, and a few are reporting it. I don’t know if there is truth to it, but it just doesn’t seem like a neutral place, that’s for sure!  

I saw it on bbc and they said they haven’t confirmed it yet,

[Spy Car]

Belarus Is currently a puppet state and Putin calls the shots. 100%.

They have no independence.

Currently the Belarusian constitution is being re-written to allow for the deployment of Russian nuclear weapons on their soil.

Pushing Belarus into the direct fight is a sign of Putin's humiliating military weakness.

Bill

  

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Spy Car
typo

[Starr]

2 hours ago, Eos said:

Dd is flying back to Switzerland tomorrow.  She's very stressed, but I feel pretty sure that since that's where all the money is, their grid will not be targeted.  The Swiss have already said they're not taking sides because money I mean neutrality.  

I'm sorry it's so stressful. Wishing her well during troubled times.

[Dianthus]

During the Olympics, I remember the Ukrainian figure skater was dressed in a traditional floral type costume and skated to "Ukrainian Bell Carol". I suspect they have been rallying national spirit for awhile.

I am so impressed with the unity they are showing and the leadership of their president. I hope they can hold out. I think Putin is shocked they didn't abandon ship and he's trying to figure out how to save face now. Anything could happen. 🙏🏻 

[Melissa in Australia]

sanctions are doing something

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60550992

interest rates in Russia have just been doubled, to 20%  the BBC is saying that there might be a run on their banks starting right now.

quote from the BBC that I linked  

Videos on social media appeared to show long queues forming at cash machines and money exchanges in Moscow.

Alexandre Moutin, head of investments at SMBC Private Wealth, believes "a bank run is already ongoing and will most likely intensify in the coming days".

"The military conflict will last longer than Putin expected and the reaction of the West and the global community might be more harmful that he expected too," he said.

[Ausmumof3]

I read that Russia has said anyone receiving foreign currency has to convert 80pc to rubles.

[Corraleno]

Apparently Putin expected victory in Ukraine to be so quickly and easily accomplished that there was a prewritten statement celebrating Russia's victory, the "return" of Ukraine to its rightful place as part of Russia, the humiliation of "the West" for trying to take Ukraine from them, and the beginning of a new world order where Russia has far more influence in the world. Multiple state media outlets published this today, presumably at a prescheduled time, and then hastily deleted it. Really worth a read to understand Putin's motivations (and megalomania).

There is a good translation on twitter here: 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Corraleno

[Corraleno]

Chef Jose Andres is in Poland, feeding refugees at one of the border crossings — he says they have fed 8000 people at that crossing alone, and he has organized food trucks at many other border crossings in multiple countries, and his organization has been calling restaurants in areas that are seeing an influx of refugees and asking them to help feed as many people as possible.

 

[Corraleno]

4 hours ago, Spy Car said:

Belarus Is currently a puppet state and Putin calls the shots. 100%.

They have no independence.

That crazy "victory" statement that was prematurely released literally refers to "The Union State of Russia and Belarus," into which they intended to subsume Ukraine, which they refer to as Little Russia:

"Russia is restoring its historical fullness, gathering the Russian world, the Russian people together in its entirely of Great Russians, Belarussians, and Little Russians." 

[Corraleno]

South Korea has joined the SWIFT ban, banned the export of certain "strategic" materials to Russia, is sending humanitarian aid to Ukraine, and may release some oil reserves to help stabilize the energy market. Singapore is also banning certain bank transactions and the export of some products.

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Corraleno

[gardenmom5]

I wanted to share a FB post from a former Ukrainian Missionary.  He was in Kiev in Sep 2001, and this was his experience with the people in the days that followed.  He loves Ukraine.

Michael Ford

7h  · 

Just over 21 years ago I was about halfway through my 2 year church mission in Ukraine. I spent the first half of my mission in Odessa and was transferred to Kiev in the early fall of 2001. I had been there for a few weeks and was getting acclimated to my new surroundings when the U.S. was attacked by terrorists on 9/11. All of us remember that day- where we were, what we were doing, and with whom we were with. That day and those following, were some of the most memorable of my life. Without going into too many details, I want to share a story that is special to me about the Ukrainian people.

After the attacks, we as missionionaries, were asked to stay in our apartments leaving only if absolutely necessary for the next few days. We did visit some church members who showed us TV footage of the attacks. It was surreal. I thought it was a movie at first. It took me a few minutes to actually accept that this had and was really happening.

Again, leaving out a lot of details, a few days passed and our leaders instructed us to go to the closest internet cafe (the only places we could email back then) to send notes to our families telling them that we were ok. As instructed, we removed our missionary tags (stating that we represented The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) and hit the road. It was a 10-15min bus ride for us to get to the closest internet cafe. Walking to the bus stop I noticed a money exchange booth and that the value of the dollar had plunged. When we loaded onto the bus, I broke from my regular routine of making a friend on the ride. My missionary companion and I went and sat in the back corner of the bus trying to draw as little attention as possible.

When we came to our stop, we stood up to exit the bus. I had taken a couple steps and felt that someone had grabbed my arm firmly. My first thought was, “I’m getting attacked.” I turned quickly to see who was holding my arm. It was a Ukrainian man, probably in his mid 40’s, with tear filled eyes. He said to me in Russian, “We are for you America.” About 20 other people on the bus repeated, “We’re for you America!” Fighting back tears, I lowered my head and tipped my hat and said, “Thank you” with the strongest voice I could muster (it wasn’t much). As my companion and I worked our way to the front exit, the Ukrainian people stood as we walked passed and gave us three cheers. We got off the bus, I took a big breath, and swallowed hard. I didn’t feel like I was alone in this foreign place. I also remember thinking, “these people have been attacked so many times before. They knew what I was feeling.”

20+ years later, I find myself home in Utah watching these wonderful people being attacked by a tyrant. These amazing Ukrainian people remind me of our American forebears who fought so hard for our freedoms. Now these brave Ukrainians are fighting to defend their families, their homes, and their way of life. They don’t want a tyrant to be able to expand his influence. So really, they are fighting for freedom-loving people around the world. I am also grateful for all the brave Russians who are protesting this war. It takes true bravery to oppose a dictator when living within the tyrant’s borders.

I consider Ukrainians to be part of my family. You are in my prayers and our efforts will be focused in doing what we can to support you in your noble fight against a murderous oppressor. This time we’re cheering for you. WE’RE FOR YOU UKRAINE!!!

[gardenmom5]

9 hours ago, Corraleno said:

No, just more theater. Putin will claim that they tried to negotiate in good faith but Ukraine refused to be reasonable, so Ukrainians brought the destruction on themselves by their unwillingness to "compromise" — i.e. surrender. No one thinks anything useful will come from it.

 

8 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

I wish. I saw a headline that says Belarus is joining Russia in fighting, so this seems odd to me.

 

8 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

I have been reading my phone, and a few are reporting it. I don’t know if there is truth to it, but it just doesn’t seem like a neutral place, that’s for sure!  

Belarus is a Putin puppet.   Their "president" does what he's told.

I can't imagine the border with Belarus to be a safe place for whichever Ukrainian  negotiators attend.

 

Putin is former KGB ltcol.  My (very long held) personal opinion is he's wanted to reestablish the USSR since before he came to power.  Ukraine was supposed to (in his mind) roll over and "welcome" him.  I've also read other former soviet block countries are sending fighters to fight for Ukraine. They're all very motivated.  They know if Ukraine falls - they're next.

Edited February 28, 2022 by gardenmom5

[Ann.without.an.e]

Zelensky really expressed not wanting to meet in Belarus for these reasons. He accepted it when Putin wouldn’t accept another option. He knows the negotiations likely won’t work but he feels the need to do anything he can to try to stop this war. 

If anything bad happens at this meeting to the Ukrainians who are sent, this will indeed be WW3 because Ukraine has too many countries on their side. I think Putin just doesn’t trust anyone else right now. He is afraid to enter another country because there’s so much hate for him at the moment. 

[Ausmumof3]

There seems to be a tonne of Twitter accounts tweeting New World Order stuff - covid is a scam transitioning to now the whole war in Ukraine is a media beat up. It seems to me like a disinfo campaign going on again. 

[TravelingChris]

9 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

I saw that too but on Fox.  

I saw it on Reuters

[Slache]

I'm looking for Putin's tweet in English and can't find it, just commentary. Anyone know where I can read it?

[TravelingChris]

The ruble is down 30% according to many news outlets on Twitter.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

Zelensky really expressed not wanting to meet in Belarus for these reasons. He accepted it when Putin wouldn’t accept another option. He knows the negotiations likely won’t work but he feels the need to do anything he can to try to stop this war. 

If anything bad happens at this meeting to the Ukrainians who are sent, this will indeed be WW3 because Ukraine has too many countries on their side. I think Putin just doesn’t trust anyone else right now. He is afraid to enter another country because there’s so much hate for him at the moment. 

I've seen some reports he took his generals by surprise when he threatened to use nuclear weapons.  
Some oligarch is whining because Italy confiscated his two villas.

The generals and the oligarchs should do the world a favor and take him out.  They'd be seen as heros.

[Katy]

Dh said Russian stock market & banks are closed today.

[lauraw4321]

I saw a great sign: “Can we just skip to you committing suicide in a bunker?”

[Spy Car]

1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

The ruble is down 30% according to many news outlets on Twitter.

Only down 30% (officially) because the Russians are refusing to open their financial markets.

The reality is that the value of the ruble is in freefall.

Bill

[bibiche]

5 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

I saw a great sign: “Can we just skip to you committing suicide in a bunker?”

Unfortunately, will never ever happen. 

[TravelingChris]

17 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Only down 30% (officially) because the Russians are refusing to open their financial markets.

The reality is that the value of the ruble is in freefall.

Bill

Yep

[frogger]

3 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

  I've also read other former soviet block countries are sending fighters to fight for Ukraine. They're all very motivated.  They know if Ukraine falls - they're next.

Do you have a source for this? Which countries?  In my heart I would love to hear Ukraine is getting more help but if they send troops does that nullify their NATO agreement?   NATO is only binding if you are attacked not if you attack first.

 

I, of course, don't feel they are being the aggressor. I'm worried actually that that could hold back countries that might otherwise help for the reason you stated. I could certainly understand fear of losing NATO protection if I sat on the border of Russia. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

I keep seeing articles of people heading there as volunteers, responding to Zelensky’s plea for foreign help. Anyone else hearing this? Some ex US military 

[Acadie]

7 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Apparently Putin expected victory in Ukraine to be so quickly and easily accomplished that there was a prewritten statement celebrating Russia's victory, the "return" of Ukraine to its rightful place as part of Russia, the humiliation of "the West" for trying to take Ukraine from them, and the beginning of a new world order where Russia has far more influence in the world. Multiple state media outlets published this today, presumably at a prescheduled time, and then hastily deleted it. Really worth a read to understand Putin's motivations (and megalomania).

Amazing window into Putin's propaganda machine. Thanks so much for posting. 

[Ting Tang]

1 hour ago, lauraw4321 said:

I saw a great sign: “Can we just skip to you committing suicide in a bunker?”

Exactly.  I read he has grown children. I was hoping that would deter him from doing something radical such as ending the world, but then again, there are people who kill their children. 😞

[gardenmom5]

17 minutes ago, frogger said:

Do you have a source for this? Which countries?  In my heart I would love to hear Ukraine is getting more help but if they send troops does that nullify their NATO agreement?   NATO is only binding if you are attacked not if you attack first.

 

I, of course, don't feel they are being the aggressor. I'm worried actually that that could hold back countries that might otherwise help for the reason you stated. I could certainly understand fear of losing NATO protection if I sat on the border of Russia. 

It's going to be late before I'm where I can get it.

It was individuals from Baltic countries and Poland, not official.  

Turkey reportedly has sent them drones.  I believe other countries have also sent equipment. 

 

[Pam in CT]

re Jose Andres

7 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Chef Jose Andres is in Poland, feeding refugees at one of the border crossings — he says they have fed 8000 people at that crossing alone, and he has organized food trucks at many other border crossings in multiple countries, and his organization has been calling restaurants in areas that are seeing an influx of refugees and asking them to help feed as many people as possible.

That man is an angel walking on earth.

 

 

[frogger]

1 minute ago, gardenmom5 said:

It's going to be late before I'm where I can get it.

It was individuals from Baltic countries and Poland, not official.  

Turkey reportedly has sent them drones.  I believe other countries have also sent equipment. 

 

I was just curious if soldiers had went, but yes I have read of lots of equipment being sent. 

Thanks

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, lauraw4321 said:

I saw a great sign: “Can we just skip to you committing suicide in a bunker?”

I've seen many comments about giving him a Walther...  he has, reportedly,  been ranting up a storm.  In his bunker. 

I imagine there would be celebrations in Russia as well as Ukraine. 

[Murphy101]

2 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

I've seen some reports he took his generals by surprise when he threatened to use nuclear weapons.  
Some oligarch is whining because Italy confiscated his two villas.

The generals and the oligarchs should do the world a favor and take him out.  They'd be seen as heros.

Idk. I’m suspicious that those oligarchs and generals aren’t much better and for all we know could be worse. Never doubt that worse can happen. 

[Spy Car]

6 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

I've seen many comments about giving him a Walther...  he has, reportedly,  been ranting up a storm.  In his bunker. 

I imagine there would be celebrations in Russia as well as Ukraine. 

Worldwide

Bill

[gardenmom5]

This was shared on the Ukrainians in Denver page.  It is from a Pastor in Lviv.  

I saw some video of Ukrainians driving past a tank that had run out of fuel  - they offered to tow it back to Russia.

Edited February 28, 2022 by gardenmom5
spelling

[gardenmom5]

The Ukrainians treated the Russian Soldiers better than they would have been treated.

Russian tanks out of gas - video

 

[Faith-manor]

2 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I keep seeing articles of people heading there as volunteers, responding to Zelensky’s plea for foreign help. Anyone else hearing this? Some ex US military 

I have a relative - retired military - who left yesterday. I am not willing to say where or how he will arrive in country though I do know the basics of his itinerary. His wife is of Ukrainian heritage. Though a 2nd generation US citizen, there are relatives there.

[lauraw4321]

CC: I've been praying this, adapted from the Book of Common Prayer:

 

O Almighty God, King of all kings, and governor of all things, whose power no creature is able to resist, to whom it belongs justly to punish sinners and to be merciful to those who truly repent: Save and deliver Ukraine, we humbly ask you, from the hands of its enemies, the Russian army. Abate its pride, assuage its malice, and confound its devices, that Ukraine, being armed with your defense, may be preserved evermore from all perils, to glorify you, who is the only giver of all victory, through the merits of your only Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

[mommyoffive]

Ukraine requests to join EU as first round of talks with Russia ends (msn.com)

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

I wonder how those in Estonia, Latvia, & Lithuania are handling the news of Belarus joining forces with Russia. Surprising or not, it adds a good deal more hostile borderland - particularly for Lithuania. I wonder if there will be a mass flight across the Baltic.