Bob Saget 😥

[Kassia]

52 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

How are you doing?  I am sad to hear it is still affecting you.   Your story really made me think though.  I never really thought about hitting your head in that way to go and get checked out or it could cause problems.  I have hit my head a few times on kitchen cabinets.  I even hit my head on a metal door (which cut my head open) and ran into a stop sign pole as a kid.   None of those did I think to watch symptoms or get checked out.  Even though with the gash on my head I had to go to the ER to get stiches.  I will be a lot more thoughtful going forward when any of us have any sort of head injury.

I didn't have any alarming symptoms so I never went to the ER.  I checked with my doctor and told her my symptoms a few days after I hit my head and she agreed that I didn't need to be seen unless my symptoms got worse or if I had any new symptoms.  I had an office visit almost three weeks after I hit my head and the doctor checked to make sure there was no intercranial pressure and he didn't see a need to have a CT scan.  

I'm about the same - mostly very fatigued with intermittent nausea.  Some days the nausea is really bad and others it's mild.  I don't know what makes it worse or better.  I get worn out very easily with either physical or mental exertion.  I take lots of brain breaks - closing my eyes, napping, etc. and that helps.  I don't know what I'd do if I had a job though.  I'm fortunate that my kids are grown and I'm not working.

 

ETA - I wouldn't advise anyone to do what I did though as far as avoiding the ER.  Always better safe than sorry.  My friends were very frustrated with me and pointed out that I would have insisted on an ER visit if it had been DH or one of the kids and they were right.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Kassia

[mommyoffive]

2 hours ago, Kassia said:

I didn't have any alarming symptoms so I never went to the ER.  I checked with my doctor and told her my symptoms a few days after I hit my head and she agreed that I didn't need to be seen unless my symptoms got worse or if I had any new symptoms.  I had an office visit almost three weeks after I hit my head and the doctor checked to make sure there was no intercranial pressure and he didn't see a need to have a CT scan.  

I'm about the same - mostly very fatigued with intermittent nausea.  Some days the nausea is really bad and others it's mild.  I don't know what makes it worse or better.  I get worn out very easily with either physical or mental exertion.  I take lots of brain breaks - closing my eyes, napping, etc. and that helps.  I don't know what I'd do if I had a job though.  I'm fortunate that my kids are grown and I'm not working.

 

ETA - I wouldn't advise anyone to do what I did though as far as avoiding the ER.  Always better safe than sorry.  My friends were very frustrated with me and pointed out that I would have insisted on an ER visit if it had been DH or one of the kids and they were right.

 

 

Oh, I am so sorry to hear you are about the same.  It has been awhile.  I know these concussions are not fast healers.  I am glad that you can take it easy and recover at your own speed.  

I am sending some hugs and hoping that soon you feel more yourself. 

[kbutton]

6 hours ago, Kassia said:

I was wondering if he was more susceptible to a brain bleed since one of his sisters died young of an aneurysm.  

That makes sense. Even if he was screened, he could've had something small enough that it wasn't treated. Guidelines go by statistics for risk of treatment vs. risk of death, and sometimes that doesn't go in an individual's favor.

If he was on blood thinners, that would make a head injury far more serious (and possibly more quick to black out if he hit his head). No illicit drugs/alcohol is not the same a no Rx drugs at all. I am not sure what percentage of people that age are on are blood thinners, but it's probably higher than most people would guess, especially with some of the newer drugs that don't require constant monitoring.

 

[AbcdeDooDah]

So sad. Fractures around his eyes and back of head.  He was taking clonazepam. Not sure if that thins the blood.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/bob-saget-had-catastrophic-injuries-202117290.html

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by AbcdeDooDah

[Terabith]

So, this does not sound like a bump.  The NYT describes it as injuries that would be consistent with a baseball bat to the back of his head or a fall from a significant height.  

I'm confused about this being accidental, to be honest.  

Clonazapam doesn't thin the blood.  

[ealp2009]

A fractured scull and fractures around the eye socks is not just a head bump or fall.  This is a very odd and sad story.   

[NewnameC]

On 2/10/2022 at 9:45 AM, Kassia said:

I didn't have any alarming symptoms so I never went to the ER.  I checked with my doctor and told her my symptoms a few days after I hit my head and she agreed that I didn't need to be seen unless my symptoms got worse or if I had any new symptoms.  I had an office visit almost three weeks after I hit my head and the doctor checked to make sure there was no intercranial pressure and he didn't see a need to have a CT scan.  

I'm about the same - mostly very fatigued with intermittent nausea.  Some days the nausea is really bad and others it's mild.  I don't know what makes it worse or better.  I get worn out very easily with either physical or mental exertion.  I take lots of brain breaks - closing my eyes, napping, etc. and that helps.  I don't know what I'd do if I had a job though.  I'm fortunate that my kids are grown and I'm not working.

 

ETA - I wouldn't advise anyone to do what I did though as far as avoiding the ER.  Always better safe than sorry.  My friends were very frustrated with me and pointed out that I would have insisted on an ER visit if it had been DH or one of the kids and they were right.

 

 

I’m so sorry to hear you are still struggling. We haven’t dealt with concussions here, but I remember a friend’s daughter took 6 months to heal.

Your friends seem to forget that you had/have lots of extenuating circumstances that made the normal protocol extremely difficult to follow. 

 

[Carrie12345]

9 hours ago, Terabith said:

So, this does not sound like a bump.  The NYT describes it as injuries that would be consistent with a baseball bat to the back of his head or a fall from a significant height.  

I'm confused about this being accidental, to be honest.  

Clonazapam doesn't thin the blood.  

I don’t like to speculate about tragedies, especially when we know there are all these nice people struggling with the grief of his loss. But I also don’t know how one can hear those new details and not wonder what in the world it’s all about.

I do feel like a creep. When my cousin died quite young from an aneurysm, none of us extended family members questioned details and didn’t ask for an autopsy report.  But we have all this information on a stranger (even though we feel he’s not.)  It’s weird.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

10 hours ago, Terabith said:

So, this does not sound like a bump.  The NYT describes it as injuries that would be consistent with a baseball bat to the back of his head or a fall from a significant height.  

I'm confused about this being accidental, to be honest.  

Clonazapam doesn't thin the blood.  

One of my best friends is a county medical examiner/coroner.  He said the same thing; it’s so hard to fracture those bones, and I’m not sure how you get a comminuted skull fracture and two orbital bone fracture from (a) whacking your head on something and (b) you don’t even notice and just go to bed.

Those are some significant injuries.

elderly people, especially, do hit their heads and cause a brain bleed without a fracture, especially people on blood thinners. They don’t notice initially because the initial bump isn’t that significant.  But this is not the case here. I don’t go for conspiracy theories but this just seems weird based on my own knowledge of these types of injuries. 

[mommyoffive]

Does anyone know if there is an investigation ongoing into his death then?

[ktgrok]

On 2/10/2022 at 5:28 PM, AbcdeDooDah said:

So sad. Fractures around his eyes and back of head.  He was taking clonazepam. Not sure if that thins the blood.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/bob-saget-had-catastrophic-injuries-202117290.html

 

That drug is similar to say, valium, so may have made him groggy which could cause both a fall and not being with it enough to realize you are injured or how to get help. But you'd have to take enough for that to happen (some can take it and work and function normally, others are more sensitive, and dosage matters)

He also had Covid, which can cause bleeding issues. 

[Terabith]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

That drug is similar to say, valium, so may have made him groggy which could cause both a fall and not being with it enough to realize you are injured or how to get help. But you'd have to take enough for that to happen (some can take it and work and function normally, others are more sensitive, and dosage matters)

He also had Covid, which can cause bleeding issues. 

Yeah, I can see how clonazepam might have made him groggy, although it didn't sound like he had a huge amount in his system.  And of course head injuries can compromise judgment.  And covid can cause bleeding issues.  

But the man's skull was cracked like an egg.  That doesn't happen from banging on the headboard.  He very well might have been knocked unconscious from the blow and not woken up from it, which is a far cry from "thought nothing of it and went to sleep."  

I just don't see how a fracture to the back of the skull hard enough to crack the orbitals can be ruled accidental.  The article I read said that it was commensurate with a fall from maybe 30 feet, but he didn't have other injuries.  So I don't see how being groggy and falling down in a hotel room caused the injuries.  

I'm usually a very trusting person, but this just does not add up.

[stephanier.1765]

Do the reports say anything about him bleeding externally from the wound? 

[itsheresomewhere]

42 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Yeah, I can see how clonazepam might have made him groggy, although it didn't sound like he had a huge amount in his system.  And of course head injuries can compromise judgment.  And covid can cause bleeding issues.  

But the man's skull was cracked like an egg.  That doesn't happen from banging on the headboard.  He very well might have been knocked unconscious from the blow and not woken up from it, which is a far cry from "thought nothing of it and went to sleep."  

I just don't see how a fracture to the back of the skull hard enough to crack the orbitals can be ruled accidental.  The article I read said that it was commensurate with a fall from maybe 30 feet, but he didn't have other injuries.  So I don't see how being groggy and falling down in a hotel room caused the injuries.  

I'm usually a very trusting person, but this just does not add up.

It doesn’t add up to me at all.  Even if he had a high pain tolerance, it still is fishy. 

[Selkie]

Wonder if he was lightheaded either from medication or another reason (he had pretty severe blockage of the arteries and an enlarged heart - could symptoms related to that have triggered a fall?) and fell against the edge of the tub or something similar.

[Catwoman]

If they'd said he'd fallen in the bathtub, cracked his head open, and died, that would have made sense to me, but the, "Oh, he bumped his head and thought nothing of it so he went to sleep" narrative sounds absolutely bizarre. If they would have at least said that he'd hit his head and been knocked unconscious and then he died, that would have been a much better explanation.

Add me to the list of people who think this sounds fishy. From what I have seen, his family wasn't suspicious, but after hearing the full extent of his injuries, I wonder if that has changed. If he was my family member, I would be demanding a full investigation.

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Wonder if he was lightheaded either from medication or another reason (he had pretty severe blockage of the arteries and an enlarged heart - could symptoms related to that have triggered a fall?) and fell against the edge of the tub or something similar.

I was thinking the same thing, except that they said they found him in bed, like he had gone to sleep like normal. The injuries they are now reporting make it sound like there's no way he would have thought nothing of that kind of serious fall, and it seems unlikely that he would have been able to just go get tucked into bed like nothing had happened. Multiple skull fractures aren't something he could have just ignored, right? He would have either been unconscious or in intense pain, don't you think?   

It's so weird.

[Harriet Vane]

I will just say this is the entire premise of the final Lord Peter Wimsey novel, Busman’s Honeymoon. And based on that extremely scientific resource I would suggest it is possible to hit your head, be knocked unconscious, come to without realizing or really remembering, and just go to bed.

[Paige]

It says that among other things clonzepan is used for seizures. Could he have hit his head hard enough during a seizure while he was already in bed for the night and then not woken up or maybe not been able to get up once the seizure passed? 

[Grace Hopper]

2 minutes ago, Paige said:

It says that among other things clonzepan is used for seizures. Could he have hit his head hard enough during a seizure while he was already in bed for the night and then not woken up or maybe not been able to get up once the seizure passed? 

For me it’s the way he was described as being positioned on the bed. My overactive imagination can envision him being posed. 
 

But that’s rude of me. His loss is a tragedy for his friends and family. I think we (I) feel affected by the thought of how easily he died alone in a hotel room. 😢

[stephanier.1765]

1 minute ago, Grace Hopper said:

For me it’s the way he was described as being positioned on the bed. My overactive imagination can envision him being posed. 
 

But that’s rude of me. His loss is a tragedy for his friends and family. I think we (I) feel affected by the thought of how easily he died alone in a hotel room. 😢

For me too, I'm also wondering if he died in pain. The initial reports said he died in his sleep but the new info has me worrying. I just hate the idea of anyone dying alone, in pain, and afraid.

[wathe]

I think accidental slip and fall is plausible.  Both clonazepam and trazodone are sedating and increase the risk of falls.; they also may impair judgement.

Even very serious head injuries often have a lucid interval lasting hours between time of injury and death.  I think that it's absolutely plausible that he, slipped, fell hard onto a hard surface (tile floor, ceramic fixture), sustained skull fractures, and then put himself to bed.  He may have taken his meds at bedtime, causing sedation.  

[Kassia]

23 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

F I think we (I) feel affected by the thought of how easily he died alone in a hotel room. 😢

 

20 minutes ago, stephanier.1765 said:

For me too, I'm also wondering if he died in pain. The initial reports said he died in his sleep but the new info has me worrying. I just hate the idea of anyone dying alone, in pain, and afraid.

 

This is off-topic but it's how my father died.  He was found in his hotel room on the bathroom floor.  It has always haunted me because I have no idea if he died instantly or if he was trapped there alone and afraid.  😞  

[DreamerGirl]

I cannot imagine how his friends and family feel. 

Really sad.

@Kassia I am sorry about your dad. 

[kbutton]

I wondered if he maybe fell more than once--like an initial fall that fractured his orbital bones on something hard. Then maybe he tried to lie down to collect himself shortly afterwards but hit the back of his head on the way down. 

 

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Kassia said:

 

 

This is off-topic but it's how my father died.  He was found in his hotel room on the bathroom floor.  It has always haunted me because I have no idea if he died instantly or if he was trapped there alone and afraid.  😞  

I would have a tough time dealing with that, too. 😞 

[mommyoffive]

Hmmmmmm

Actor Saget's family sues to block public release of death records (msn.com)

 

Bob Saget's family sues to block the release of records from his death : NPR

[Carrie12345]

37 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Hmmmmmm

Actor Saget's family sues to block public release of death records (msn.com)

 

Bob Saget's family sues to block the release of records from his death : NPR

“Additionally, the family argues in the suit that no public interest would be served by the release of Saget's records to the general public”

And, if that’s the case (no benefit to the public,) that’s the way it should be.
Do I have morbid curiosity? Yes. Absolutely yes.
If there isn’t a violent criminal on the loose, it’s truly none of my business.

[Junie]

Also, I think the family is absolutely correct in trying to keep the photos out of the public.

[Kassia]

23 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

“Additionally, the family argues in the suit that no public interest would be served by the release of Saget's records to the general public”

And, if that’s the case (no benefit to the public,) that’s the way it should be.
Do I have morbid curiosity? Yes. Absolutely yes.
If there isn’t a violent criminal on the loose, it’s truly none of my business.

 

14 minutes ago, Junie said:

Also, I think the family is absolutely correct in trying to keep the photos out of the public.

I agree and would want the same privacy for my loved one and family.  

[itsheresomewhere]

Part of me wonders if he had been recently diagnosed with a serious illness/disease and they don’t want anyone to know.  Completely their right. 

[1234]

I think the family is doing the right thing in blocking any more information being released. I imagine it’s quite difficult to have so many strangers speculating and coming up with crazy stories even though the police and medical examiner ruled it nothing but an accident. No one other than his family needs to know anything else.

[heartlikealion]

I heard about this on the radio today. I absolutely agree no one’s autopsy photos should be put out like that . This poor family. 

[Lisa]

HIPPA laws are in effect even after someone dies. I don't see how his autopsy and pictures could be made public without family consent.

[Jaybee]

https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/working-stiff/97330?xid=nl_popmed_2022-02-25&eun=g1838208d0r&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PopMedicine_022522&utm_term=NL_Gen_Int_PopMedicine_Active

Thought some of you might be interested in reading this.

[Annie G]

That was an interesting read, Jaybee.  I’d heard earlier this week that he entered his room a little after 2 am and the medical examiner estimates time of death around 2 hours later. That was eye opening to me- that a fall could cause death so quickly!  My 90 year old dad lives alone and goes up and down stairs every day, and I’m pretty worried he’s going to fall. Maybe my concern is not as far fetched as my siblings seem to think. 

[wathe]

11 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/working-stiff/97330?xid=nl_popmed_2022-02-25&eun=g1838208d0r&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PopMedicine_022522&utm_term=NL_Gen_Int_PopMedicine_Active

Thought some of you might be interested in reading this.

That was very good.  

Tangent: Experts opining outside their area of expertise has been a theme during this pandemic, and contributes significantly to the current epidemic of misinformation.  This article nails it - same issue, but not pandemic related in this instance.

[Jaybee]

5 minutes ago, Annie G said:

That was an interesting read, Jaybee.  I’d heard earlier this week that he entered his room a little after 2 am and the medical examiner estimates time of death around 2 hours later. That was eye opening to me- that a fall could cause death so quickly!  My 90 year old dad lives alone and goes up and down stairs every day, and I’m pretty worried he’s going to fall. Maybe my concern is not as far fetched as my siblings seem to think. 

My mom had a fall about a year ago, I think, only she fell forward. Her shoe caught a little on the floor. Surprisingly, she broke no bones other that a small fracture in her nose. Her face was so bruised up--too black eyes, big purple bruises all over her face. She was able to call my sister, who came down and said it looked like a crime scene with the blood everywhere. So yes, things can happen quickly.

[KSera]

11 minutes ago, wathe said:

That was very good.  

Tangent: Experts opining outside their area of expertise has been a theme during this pandemic, and contributes significantly to the current epidemic of misinformation.  This article nails it - same issue, but not pandemic related in this instance.

That was exactly the same thought I had when reading it. It seems most outlets have been guilty to some degree, but I keep wavering on cancelling my NYT subscription due to it over the past few months. I didn’t realize they had published on this topic in this way. That’s one more tick in the “cancel” column. It’s too bad, as they also produce some good journalism. I’m having the same issue with the Atlantic. 

[Idalou]

Thank you. I think we even had it least one person here claiming they had it on the authority of their own doctor-relative-friend, etc that his injuries didn't match a fall such as his, as well as others finding it hard to believe a fall could cause so much damage.

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Idalou

[kbutton]

36 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/working-stiff/97330?xid=nl_popmed_2022-02-25&eun=g1838208d0r&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PopMedicine_022522&utm_term=NL_Gen_Int_PopMedicine_Active

Thought some of you might be interested in reading this.

I learned about coup/countrecoup in a pretty thorough first aid class (college credit), but I didn't realize it could break the orbital bones. This makes a lot of sense. 

[Grace Hopper]

43 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/working-stiff/97330?xid=nl_popmed_2022-02-25&eun=g1838208d0r&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PopMedicine_022522&utm_term=NL_Gen_Int_PopMedicine_Active

Thought some of you might be interested in reading this.

 

4 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I learned about coup/countrecoup in a pretty thorough first aid class (college credit), but I didn't realize it could break the orbital bones. This makes a lot of sense. 

Very interesting, thanks for revisiting this thread to share it. 
 

Like kbutton, I had no idea and would never have imagined that orbital bones could be broken by a rebounding brain. Now I want to double up on my own balance exercises to help prevent falls in the future!

[TravelingChris]

On 2/10/2022 at 4:28 PM, AbcdeDooDah said:

So sad. Fractures around his eyes and back of head.  He was taking clonazepam. Not sure if that thins the blood.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/bob-saget-had-catastrophic-injuries-202117290.html

 

It actually thickens blood

 

[wathe]

30 minutes ago, KSera said:

That was exactly the same thought I had when reading it. It seems most outlets have been guilty to some degree, but I keep wavering on cancelling my NYT subscription due to it over the past few months. I didn’t realize they had published on this topic in this way. That’s one more tick in the “cancel” column. It’s too bad, as they also produce some good journalism. I’m having the same issue with the Atlantic. 

I cancelled mine last week due to the appallingly awful coverage the Canadian convoy protest/occupation.  

[wathe]

Expert bias is such an important issue. It plays out in medicine all the time.  ie Specialist group recommendations for screening diseases within their own specialty tend to be more aggressive than guidelines for the same diseases published by generalists (family medicine etc) - referral bias plays a role here.  The specialists see all the bad cases, but don't see the denominator.  The generalists are very, very aware of the denominators.

I think I posted earlier in this thread that I thought accidental fall was plausible in this case.  I see cases like these, and neurosurgeons don't.  ED docs see the fatal injuries that never make it to neurosurgeons. First responders (medics, police, fire) and pathologists see the cases that never make it to the ED.  Neurosurgeons see a curated sample of head injuries, biased toward those that are surgical/survivable.  The ones that never make it to the hospital, or are DOA, or die shortly after arriving in the ED despite resuscitation  - neurosurgeons never see them.

ETA - post in a nutshell:  denominators matter.

Edited February 25, 2022 by wathe

[TravelingChris]

Thank you so much for that article.  I even finished a book called "The Education of a Coroner" and didn't realize that a fall backwards could potentially cause frontal injuries.

The one thing I read someplace that also made sense was two falls- because the first fall makes you tired and confused which leads to second fall.  I haven't had any so close together but did have head injuries within a day of each other before.

[Lisa]

That was a good article explaining forensic pathologists work and why Bob Saget's death was ruled an accident.