Classism and COVID

[Soror]

I've been mulling this over in my head for days trying to figure out how to phrase this when I noticed this came up on another thread.

Unlike other posters I have got a sense of that here. I've felt quite frustrated with my rural area and how much COVID has been blown off but seeing some comments I have much more empathy now. 

A large percentage of people here where I live do not have the option to work from home (I don't know of anyone personally who is working at home due to COVID). My dh had some weeks of a day or two of at home work but that was the extent of it. You can't just ask to work at home, it doesn't happen so already there is a different idea of risk because it is impossible to eliminate.

And there are so many out there working to produce, ship, and deliver all these products to all those staying home to stay safe when they don't have that option. 

I see anger at people doing various risky activities but little acknowledgement that the risk so many have no choice in that is making it possible for so many to stay at home. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Soror

[MEmama]

Who is denying that some people have more options (and therefore a different set of responsibilities) than others,though? 
 

I have friends who are essential workers. Nurses, shipyard workers...it runs the gamut. When they aren’t at work, they do what we do—stay home. They share in the responsibility of reducing load *when possible*. DS has friends who opt to go to school; their responsibility is to keeping their school community safe and that means doing all the things (masking, daily health checks, etc). They do, because it’s important. No one is shaming anyone else; we truly all are in this together. And we all have a responsibility to doing our part, which *of course* looks different for every individual and family. 
 

If all of us trust that we are all acting in good faith I don’t see where the wedge lies.

[catz]

I honestly see that at a huge problem.  There was huge mismanagement at the federal level not to prioritize

• Incentives for employers to have safe work environment including staggering shifts, work from home when possible, masking, funding for payment of quarantined workers and ability to shut down test and get back up as quickly as possible.
• Quality PPE for EVERYONE who needed to be out
• Funding for other safety measures for businesses - plexiglass, ventilation/air purification, etc
• CLEAR guidelines for reasonable safety.  I think something like having the CDC release a regular best practices brief based on latest information would be responsible
• Help for families that need it, etc etc etc

I have never felt like I've looked down at anyone who needs to be out working.  Where I am, they are some of the most careful people I know.  I have been in ONE retail store since March.  Everything else has been curbside or delivery.  I go out of my way to support businesses who are very obviously working hard to maintain employee safety.   But if people CAN be home they SHOULD be home.  I feel like that is what we as a family can do as a community right now.  I have the utmost respect for retail workers, delivery folks, health care workers, etc.   And I would be wildly in support of more resources for those people.  Like automatic pay if you need to quarantine.   The early break outs in the meat packing industry were horrible and I was enraged by them just requiring to be open without getting PPE, safety stuff on the ground immediately for those people.  Some of the personal stories out of that situation were so sad.  

Where I have seen anger is at large gatherings, bar break outs, weddings, college students making bad choices, flagrant science and mask denial, etc.  We had a funeral for 10 for my mother in law this spring.  I know it sucks. I'm sorry if anyone has made you feel lesser for just doing what needs to be done for your family.  

[teachermom2834]

I agree even though I get frustrated. Where I live there is a pretty prevalent line of thought that people should not be testing unless they are in dire straits and people do not generally test their children. While I don’t agree, I am aware that my dh has been working from home since March with no plans to return until June. My kids are homeschooled and haven’t missed a beat academically. We don’t need to go much of anywhere. We have saved money during the pandemic due to not driving, dh not paying for parking and commuting etc. My dh actually got a promotion during this time. It stinks but we have been okay.

But I do see this is not the scenario for everyone. There are a lot of large families here with two working parents. If a kid being exposed at school means the kid gets tested it means potentially four other kids in quarantine and two parents missing paychecks. And this cycle can repeat over and over everytime one of the six or more family members is possibly exposed? That is a lot to ask if no one is visibly ill. I can sit here and be indignant about people not testing their kids who are quarantined from school...but if that asymptomatic kid tests positive the parents are missing two weeks of work.  
 

It has been clear from the beginning of this thing that it is hitting the most vulnerable communities and people and honestly some people don’t have the margin or the luxury to take all the precautions others can sit back and say they should.  

Edited December 2, 2020 by teachermom2834

[Pawz4me]

I'm not sure I understand the issue.

DS22 has an essential job. Other than working he stays home. If he gets Covid I don't think anyone is going to blame him. I suspect it would be much more likely that people would thank him for his sacrifice in keeping things running. Now if he were working and going out partying/socializing in his free time and got Covid . . . that's a different story, 'cause who'd know for sure where he got it?

[Soror]

11 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Who is denying that some people have more options (and therefore a different set of responsibilities) than others,though? 
 

I have friends who are essential workers. Nurses, shipyard workers...it runs the gamut. When they aren’t at work, they do what we do—stay home. They share in the responsibility of reducing load *when possible*. DS has friends who opt to go to school; their responsibility is to keeping their school community safe and that means doing all the things (masking, daily health checks, etc). They do, because it’s important. No one is shaming anyone else; we truly all are in this together. And we all have a responsibility to doing our part, which *of course* looks different for every individual and family. 
 

If all of us trust that we are all acting in good faith I don’t see where the wedge lies.

I don't see a general trust and goodwill. I see a lack of appreciation for all the people that are risking their own safety for others safety. 

I feel like a lot of rah rah support for healthcare workers, not so much for all the blue collar workers in the middle.

And I have a lot more empathy for those who are just tired of it, they have so much risk already I can see how it feels like why bother with anything, it is a drop in the bucket. 

[Melissa Louise]

Being forced to manage and cope with risk, because you have no option but to work on-site through a pandemic, can desensitise a person to risk outside of work contexts, and this is perfectly explicable. 

Generally, there is a class split between those who can work from home, and those who can't. 

The message, to differentiate between work risk and other risk, best comes from peers in the same situation. Even then, it's going to feel unfair. 

[Farrar]

Covid has hit people who are working class or poor much harder. More cases, in part because of health issues tied to poverty and in part because the jobs can't be done from home. More people out of work. College applications are way down at a lot of schools - poor kids are leaving college. It's not good.

I don't see a lot of disdain for that work that is being done. At least among people I know, everyone who does have a white collar, work from home now job that is secure seems to be acutely aware that we're pretty lucky and also seems to want to be an ally by supporting policies that would help - government assistance and more government relief for people out of work, not to mention better healthcare and more support for those who are sick and exposed and a national strategy for dealing with the virus since we simply cannot get the economy back on track until we address the pandemic. I think a lot of us are finding it frustrating that people who are most at risk because they have jobs that put them at risk are also taking the most risks outside of work or supporting policies that ignore the risk. I understand the factors that have led to this, but it's still difficult to take. And I think that has exacerbated what is already a divide.

[Ausmumof3]

My dhs works was like this where the managers weren’t even allowed two people in the office at a time whereas the guys were driving together a d working in public spaces.  He has a mixed job but could never fully work at home.  Many people in our circle are agricultural workers etc and their work had never stopped.

I haven’t seen any judgement on people for doing necessary work though, only on those who are eating at restaurants for fun and going to pool parties.  

If everyone makes the effort to reduce risk wherever possible it reduces the risk to essential workers because it reduces the spread overall.

[City Mouse]

People need to work, so it doesn’t bother me that their jobs require in person working.

The things that make me mad are totally optional activities. (I line in a very small town in an area that is a tourist destination)A member of our town council decided to hold a softball tournament that brought many people from outside our town and called it a “protest”. Tourists who travel to the area, ignore the state quarantine order, then get mad because all the businesses and usual tourist activities are closed.  I could give more examples, but it just makes me angry to focus on that stuff. I prefer to focus on what I can do, or choose not to do. 

[MEmama]

18 minutes ago, Soror said:

I don't see a general trust and goodwill. I see a lack of appreciation for all the people that are risking their own safety for others safety. 

I feel like a lot of rah rah support for healthcare workers, not so much for all the blue collar workers in the middle.

And I have a lot more empathy for those who are just tired of it, they have so much risk already I can see how it feels like why bother with anything, it is a drop in the bucket. 

What do you think can change the messaging *all* sides are hearing?

[OH_Homeschooler]

28 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I'm not sure I understand the issue.

DS22 has an essential job. Other than working he stays home. If he gets Covid I don't think anyone is going to blame him. I suspect it would be much more likely that people would thank him for his sacrifice in keeping things running. Now if he were working and going out partying/socializing in his free time and got Covid . . . that's a different story, 'cause who'd know for sure where he got it?

Or if he were refusing to wear a mask, and calling it a hoax, and calling people who follow the CDC guidelines "sheeple." Those are the people I'm angry at. I completely understand and empathize with people who have to go to work and can't work from home...which isn't necessarily a class issue, either. I am sure there are many people who make higher salaries than I do who are required to go to a place of business during this crisis. 

The anti-mask attitude may very well be related to a lack of education...people who don't understand the reality of this disease may not be as well-educated as those who do. But the less educated always have the option to listen to those who have received the very best education on infectious diseases, and based on MANY comments I've seen, they are not exactly nice to those people either.  

ETA: At my job, there are simply some jobs that must be done in person. Our company has worked very hard to protect these people and keep them safe. For example, we used to have a walk-in model and now appointments are required. Part of keeping frontline employees safe is letting as many people work from home as possible. Overall, there are fewer people interacting every day. I get that this still sucks for those who have to report in-person, but they are ultimately safer because there are fewer people at work every day. In other words, more people working from home means everyone is safer.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by OH_Homeschooler

[JennyD]

15 minutes ago, Soror said:

I see a lack of appreciation for all the people that are risking their own safety for others safety. 

Like Farrar, this is certainly not the sentiment I hear from other white-collar workers who can work partially or entirely from home.  DH and I regularly emphasize strongly to our children just how fortunate we are to be able to isolate in the way that we are doing.

I do find some of the mask-wearing research to be quite baffling.  To my mind, the most important way for me to show my appreciation for people who have no choice but to go to work in a pandemic is to do my utmost to keep away from them, or if that's not possible, wear a mask in their presence.  But that doesn't seem to be how such a gesture is always perceived.

14 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Being forced to manage and cope with risk, because you have no option but to work on-site through a pandemic, can desensitise a person to risk outside of work contexts, and this is perfectly explicable. 

I think this is a really important point and also an extremely difficult public health messaging challenge.

 

[Ausmumof3]

I guess there’s this assumption here ongoing that because we can afford to homeschool we are in a position of privilege.  While there are certainly some people in my life who couldn’t afford to have one person stay home and homeschool there are many many more who could but would never choose that because they have a different set of values.  And that’s totally fine, but I’m not going to feel guilty about the fact that my fam have made choices that means I can keep my kids home from school when needed.  At the sport my kids can only just afford to do they are the only kids that don’t have an Xbox or similar.  Dd has one tablet that she’s earned the money for herself.  They wear almost all hand me downs and get home haircuts.  I could go on and on but it’s not really relevant.  I know there are some people that really can’t afford any other option but I also know people who have managed to homeschool on the money they got from Centrelink for a year or two and made it work.  

[Farrar]

I'm trying to be less judgmental about the optional stuff. I mean, we have traveled a bit - gone on a couple of day trips to state parks and gone a couple of hours away to the mountains to stay in an airbnb. And I've gone out with friends to local parks to sit around and chat and play bocce and things like that. That's my line... I am trying to recognize that other people have different lines and at this point, there's nothing I can do. We're all trying to stay sane and do what we can.

I do feel like the people I know who are lucky enough to have had greater access to education are more likely to realistically assess their risks and make informed decisions. So then even things like that get into the classism category in many ways. It's like, if you don't have as much experience evaluating complex information and scientific news then you're less likely to be able to evaluate your risk appropriately when the messaging has been so mismanaged from the authorities. And if you're already taking risks because you're in a category of people who have to work, then you're more likely to normalize those risks and continue doing the optional stuff.

I will say that we're all making generalizations, but obviously this isn't everyone. I know people who have white collar jobs and science degrees who are being incredibly risky and people who are working class making very smart ones. My neighbors are a multigenerational family where two of the adults work in healthcare. They are being so careful all the time. It's been so rough on them with their kids at home.

[Lecka]

Skipping to the bottom....

What I think is that, for people who have to go out for work, they have to become desensitized on some level.  They have to become desensitized to go through their day.  

And then I think when that has happened, it changes a lot.  

My husband is at work right now, and it's not like he doesn't care or think about it, but he is working!  So obviously he can comprehend how people are able to do a risky thing like go to work.  

I think it is a big gap between people who can minimize going out and then do not become desensitized (if they are taking precautions).  

I don't think it's a function of class beyond that often people making more money can work from home.  That is hardly universal, though.  What about healthcare professionals???????????????

[MEmama]

4 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I'm trying to be less judgmental about the optional stuff. I mean, we have traveled a bit - gone on a couple of day trips to state parks and gone a couple of hours away to the mountains to stay in an airbnb. And I've gone out with friends to local parks to sit around and chat and play bocce and things like that. That's my line... I am trying to recognize that other people have different lines and at this point, there's nothing I can do. We're all trying to stay sane and do what we can.

Yes. And this is where trusting that everyone is acting in good faith comes in. Every person and family has different needs and different lines, but as long as we aren’t flouting public health measures (not wearing masks, partying, etc) it’s okay. 
 

Nearly *everyone* across the entire globe is making sacrifices. *All* jobs are important and “make things run”. All activities missed matter. It’s when people are choosing to not act in good faith that we have problems—the trouble isn’t about going to work, it’s attending anti mask rallies, it’s purposefully spreading misinformation, it’s in a refusal to participate in the sacrifices everyone else is making. That’s not classist, those are intentional choices and the consequences manifest themselves in the general distrust in this country and in our overflowing morgues. 

[Bootsie]

The impact on daily life of COVID is very different for different people. I know some people that their daily routine has not changed much; I know others for whom it is drastically different.  I know some people who are extremely isolated--to the point of not having talked in person to another human since March.  I know others who are overwhelmed by togetherness--with two parents working from home with several children at home.  I know some who have been out of work and others who have worked harder, longer, and more stressful hours over the past 9 months than ever before.  Each sees the pandemic from their own perspective.  

I have seen those from upper socio-economic levels hurt--dentists with office expenses and student loans and those from lower socio-economic levels--restaurant staff hurt.  I have seen doctors who have to work in person and janitorial staff that have to work in person.  

Several of the local school districts in my area just awarded all of their employees with a $2000 bonus (whether working in-person or not).  I am finding it hard to reconcile when many of the taxpayers in the areas have lost their jobs, seen pay cuts, or are facing other hardships how they should pay more taxes to fund this.  

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Soror said:

I don't see a general trust and goodwill. I see a lack of appreciation for all the people that are risking their own safety for others safety. 

I feel like a lot of rah rah support for healthcare workers, not so much for all the blue collar workers in the middle.

And I have a lot more empathy for those who are just tired of it, they have so much risk already I can see how it feels like why bother with anything, it is a drop in the bucket. 

I am not seeing a lack of appreciation for essential workers whether they are health care or something other than that.  Essential workers could work safer if EVERYONE would stay home from bars, parties, indoor gatherings etc.  That is the problem.

[MEmama]

3 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

 

Several of the local school districts in my area just awarded all of their employees with a $2000 bonus (whether working in-person or not).  I am finding it hard to reconcile when many of the taxpayers in the areas have lost their jobs, seen pay cuts, or are facing other hardships how they should pay more taxes to fund this.  

It is frustrating, though not surprising, that the federal government chose to abdicate its role in mitigating the very real economic pain caused to individuals and our country, leaving the role to the states and local authorities to figure it out on their own. 
 

Apparently around half the population wants it that way, though. We have many boardies who favor local control over federal relief. So I think as a result we can expect for situations like this to arise, because everyone has been left to piece things together as best they can. It’s the natural consequence/benefit, depending on ones point of view. 

[Wheres Toto]

Around here the blue collar workers that have no choice but to go in to work are mostly being very careful in all areas of life.  They seem to take the risk seriously and since they really don't want to get sick, they are as careful as possible both at work and off-work hours.  But I'm also in an area that was hit hard in the beginning and we've had a pretty strong mask message since April.  

[bookbard]

5 minutes ago, MEmama said:

It is frustrating, though not surprising, that the federal government chose to abdicate its role in mitigating the very real economic pain caused to individuals and our country, leaving the role to the states and local authorities to figure it out on their own. 

Yes, this is the crux, I think. You can either blame individuals (when you have no idea of their situation or their intellectual capacity) or you can look at the system. The USA isn't doing poorly because individual citizens are 'worse' than citizens in a country doing well, like Taiwan; they are stuck in a system which hasn't shifted to help them through this time. You simply can't rely on individual behavioural change, either with pollution or with covid. It must come from the top. 

Poorer people suffer more with literally everything that happens; climate change, the bushfires, and now with covid. A decent government acknowledges that and takes steps to mitigate it. It's something that frustrates me in my own country and I can imagine similar in other countries too. 

[QueenCat]

21 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

 

Several of the local school districts in my area just awarded all of their employees with a $2000 bonus (whether working in-person or not).  I am finding it hard to reconcile when many of the taxpayers in the areas have lost their jobs, seen pay cuts, or are facing other hardships how they should pay more taxes to fund this.  

They are probably trying to retain teachers with a small reward. They are quitting in droves here. They are working more than their normal, which is already a lot, and are beyond exhausted. 

[Not_a_Number]

2 hours ago, Soror said:

I see anger at people doing various risky activities but little acknowledgement that the risk so many have no choice in that is making it possible for so many to stay at home. 

Actually, I'm angry on BEHALF of the people who don't have choice. Everyone who chooses to engage in VOLUNTARY group activities is currently endangering people who don't have the choice not to work out of the house. 

Me? I can hunker down for the winter and work remotely. It matters a heck of a lot less for me. 

[popmom]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I am not seeing a lack of appreciation for essential workers whether they are health care or something other than that.  Essential workers could work safer if EVERYONE would stay home from bars, parties, indoor gatherings etc.  That is the problem.

But wouldn't that put a lot of people out of work? Including many essential workers? Wouldn't businesses have to shut down? The entire hospitality industry would be decimated. Retail, too. I realize this is off topic, but I think it's why we have the judgy attitudes on both sides.

[regentrude]

.deleted because I feel I misunderstood the question

Edited December 2, 2020 by regentrude

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, popmom said:

But wouldn't that put a lot of people out of work? Including many essential workers? Wouldn't businesses have to shut down? The entire hospitality industry would be decimated. Retail, too. I realize this is off topic, but I think it's why we have the judgy attitudes on both sides.

What I would like is for people in the risky industries to get paid not to work for now. That's because them going to work and increasing virus spread is doing no favors to either public health or the economy. 

The vaccines are coming. Life WILL in fact go back to normal. For now, having bars open is NOT helping anything. The economy can't be normal with rampant virus spread. 

[popmom]

4 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I have not observed anger directed at people for working. Obviously not everybody can work from home.

I have seen anger directed at people refusing to mask, parents holding a homecoming dance for 175 highschooles in a local restaurant, people holding large gatherings without precautions, people refusing to take Covid seriously.

I have not heard a single person shame delivery workers, nurses, grocery store  or restaurant staff.

So those examples are anger directed at groups of strangers in general? What if it's your best friend who is not taking COVID seriously? What feelings would that stir?

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, popmom said:

So those examples are anger directed at groups of strangers in general? What if it's your best friend who is not taking COVID seriously? What feelings would that stir?

I'd feel upset at them, personally. 

[popmom]

5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'd feel upset at them, personally. 

Angry? Judging? Condescending? What all does upset entail? I think that's the reason for this thread. I mean--I'm not saying I don't struggle with the same things. Clearly I do. But what does it accomplish? 

Edited December 2, 2020 by popmom

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, popmom said:

Angry? Judging? What all does upset entail? I think that's the reason for this thread. I mean--I'm not saying I don't struggle with the same things. Clearly I do. But what does it accomplish? 

Well, being angry at people generally doesn't accomplish much 😉 . I did actually have a falling out with a local homeschooling friend over this, and it did absolutely no good. (This was way back in March.) 

I feel like the most USEFUL thing I can do is to inform people about what is and isn't risky. I'm a walking COVID risk encyclopedia, lol, and that can be helpful to anyone who's actually trying to gauge risk and isn't a conspiracy theorist. But that doesn't change my personal emotional reactions, you know? 

[popmom]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Well, being angry at people generally doesn't accomplish much 😉 . I did actually have a falling out with a local homeschooling friend over this, and it did absolutely no good. (This was way back in March.) 

I feel like the most USEFUL thing I can do is to inform people about what is and isn't risky. I'm a walking COVID risk encyclopedia, lol, and that can be helpful to anyone who's actually trying to gauge risk and isn't a conspiracy theorist. But that doesn't change my personal emotional reactions, you know? 

I agree with you--totally understand. But collectively there is this us vs them thing going on. Do you sense that? I don't want to add fuel to that. I'm trying anyway. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by popmom

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, popmom said:

I agree with you--totally understand. But collectively there is this us vs them thing going on. Do you sense that?

I do, although I think there are more shades of gray than that. But yeah, I don't see how I would stop feeling pretty upset about people not taking it seriously. On the other hand, it's become so political that I don't even exactly blame people -- they aren't getting good information, most of them. I do wish people would be able to deal with data, but that's a very old rant for me 😉 .

Critical thinking skills: we need more of them, and not just for COVID. But COVID has certainly reminded me of that. 

[popmom]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

 

Critical thinking skills: we need more of them, and not just for COVID. But COVID has certainly reminded me of that. 

AMEN. 

[HS Mom in NC]

My world is a mix of essential on site workers and remote workers.  I live in a politically purple area. It's not work situations that generate frustration, it's the nonessential activities, refusal to mask, refusal to mask properly, and refusal to socially distance properly causing anger. It's also the minimizing precautions in general and using the term hoax.  My son-in-law lost 2 grandmothers in 1 month due to COVID and have close friends who treat COVID patients. 

[scholastica]

3 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

My world is a mix of essential on site workers and remote workers.  I live in a politically purple area. It's not work situations that generate frustration, it's the nonessential activities, refusal to mask, refusal to mask properly, and refusal to socially distance properly causing anger. It's also the minimizing precautions in general and using the term hoax.  My son-in-law lost 2 grandmothers in 1 month due to COVID and have close friends who treat COVID patients. 

I am so sorry for your family’s losses.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I honestly think this is a fascinating topic and am really interested in all the replies.

Essential workers are hands down the least isolated people I personally know.  Part of it is just fatigue, part of it is fatalism of being consistently exposed anyway; and some, especially with the ER doctors and nurses I know, have done a risk-benefit analysis.  One ER doctor officiated a wedding where there were about a hundred guests.  No pictures showed anyone masked(I was not invited; the couple were coworkers).  We’re good enough friends that I asked, because he’s doing everything like eating out and everything. He said he’d considered the risk analysis; he has no vulnerable family members and his patient care time is limited and with so much PPE it’s not considered an exposure for anyone.  This is the prevalent attitude of a lot of people I personally know.  The local government keeps putting out PSA’s about small groups in homes driving the spread, but people have decided that their chances of getting it and being seriously ill is so low that they aren’t concerned.

 It’s a risk-benefit analysis. These people have decided that their risk, and the people they are around, is low enough to have weddings and card games. 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

 It’s a risk-benefit analysis. These people have decided that their risk, and the people they are around, is low enough to have weddings and card games. 

I don't really understand this analysis. I've tried doing the analysis for myself, and I've heard enough horror stories that I just don't get it. I think chances are that I won't die (although we have at least two boardies who've had close friends are relatives who were NOT that old die), but I don't feel at all convinced that I won't get long COVID. Plus, I don't think any of us understand what the long term effects are. 

It's hard for me not to assume this is partially politically motivated. I don't know anyone who's acting like this myself. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[regentrude]

23 minutes ago, popmom said:

What if it's your best friend who is not taking COVID seriously? What feelings would that stir?

I would be extremely frustrated. And possibly angry of they were exposing other people.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I don't really understand this analysis. I've tried doing the analysis for myself, and I've heard enough horror stories that I just don't get it. I think chances are that I won't die (although we have at least two boardies who've had close friends are relatives who were NOT that old die), but I don't feel at all convinced that I won't get long COVID. Plus, I don't think any of us understand what the long term effects are. 

It's hard for me not to assume this is partially politically motivated. I don't know anyone who's acting like this myself. 

Well, these people are all over the map politically.  I think it’s fatalism, mostly.  At this point, the vast majority of my medical working friends have also tested positive and recovered from Covid.  I think that plays into it.  They acted very differently in the spring.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, regentrude said:

I would be extremely frustrated. And possibly angry of they were exposing other people.

... and this is how I wound up not talking to a local homeschooling mom since March... because I did feel mad. It didn't do any good, though. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Well, these people are all over the map politically.  I think it’s fatalism, mostly.  At this point, the vast majority of my medical working friends have also tested positive and recovered from Covid.  I think that plays into it.  They acted very differently in the spring.

Ah, yeah, I guess that makes sense. Did they generally have mild cases?

[rebcoola]

I'm not upset at anyone working or not testing because they are afraid they won't be able to work to feed their family.

I am mad that people who can, aren't staying home. 

I am made at the government not doing more so people can stay home and not worry about food & rent.

I am furious that it took our area being completely out of control before they put effort into educating the migrant workers.  They didn't even do radio PSA's in Spanish until June!!!  I am mad at all the people.around here who thinks it's fake because they don't know anyone who has died.  Well, yeah because you only talk to other people just like you. 

 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Ah, yeah, I guess that makes sense. Did they generally have mild cases?

All were mild or asymptomatic(HCW at this hospital are tested twice weekly). I don’t personally know anyone who’s had a terrible case, though over the last few weeks I’ve had many patients who were very sick and several who wound up dying.

In contrast, in the last six months, this particular ER has lost one employee to a brain aneurysm, one who did not die but is permanently injured in a car accident, and someone who died of diabetic complications.  I think people’s personal experiences skews that.  When you are treating 30 patients a day with Covid, only one who is admitted, and also treating car accident fatalities and suicides, it absolutely can skew your thinking. 

 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

All were mild or asymptomatic(HCW at this hospital are tested twice weekly). I don’t personally know anyone who’s had a terrible case, though over the last few weeks I’ve had many patients who were very sick and several who wound up dying.

I wonder if the PPE meant they had low viral loads? That would make a lot of sense. 

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

 But for people (like my fam) who live in a house with three essential public interacting people, masking up and sitting away from other people in a restaurant (our restaurants have moved tables to force social distancing) or masking up and walking into Walmart to doesn’t seem like that big of a deal and certainly doesn’t seem more risky than dealing with people hanging over your shoulder in an office or exchanging money with strangers in a business, which is just some of the interactions my people have on a daily basis.   

Except that if you're public facing, you might very well expose other people if you go to a restaurant. Not intentionally, obviously, but then we know how spread goes. And yeah, I don't think that's the right thing to do, sorry. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

I wonder if the PPE meant they had low viral loads? That would make a lot of sense. 

I would think so. They are wearing an N95 with a surgical Mask over it, face shields, head coverings, gowns and booties for every patient seen in the ER, covid symptoms or not.  That has to significantly reduce viral load. And right now there is plenty of PPE to change between patients.

[Ausmumof3]

8 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Well, these people are all over the map politically.  I think it’s fatalism, mostly.  At this point, the vast majority of my medical working friends have also tested positive and recovered from Covid.  I think that plays into it.  They acted very differently in the spring.

I can see that.  If you are exposed to kinda high levels all the time and have no choice it probably feels kind of pointless not enjoying a meal out from time to time.

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, QueenCat said:

They are probably trying to retain teachers with a small reward. They are quitting in droves here. They are working more than their normal, which is already a lot, and are beyond exhausted. 

But many of the taxpayers funding this are ALSO working more than their normal and receiving pay cuts.  

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I would think so. They are wearing an N95 with a surgical Mask over it, face shields, head coverings, gowns and booties for every patient seen in the ER, covid symptoms or not.  That has to significantly reduce viral load. And right now there is plenty of PPE to change between patients.

Which of course means they could have a far worse case if they pick one up in a restaurant without any PPE 😕 .