stephanier.1765 Posted October 31, 2020 Author Share Posted October 31, 2020 Look who's hanging out in my lap today. 😻 Well technically, he's partially on my lap and partially on the chair because he's too big to do otherwise. I'm squished against the other side and I don't even care. I even need to use the bathroom like crazy but there is no way I'm getting up. 😂 He's been too weak to jump onto my bed but he made it up several times during the night and refused to get down so I could make my bed (another reason he isn't usually allowed to sleep in my room). This morning he had a bigger breakfast than anything else he's eaten so far. He's still not his voracious self but he's definitely moving in the right direction. I need to get the packet out of the garbage and buy more of that because he loved it but the other cats weren't interested. It makes it easier to feed him that way. He also got me really good on the arm this morning as I was handing him off to dh so he could hold him while I popped the pills in and he didn't want anything to do with that. Yay for fighting back! I cannot tell you the relief I feel. Not just mental but my whole body feels it. 10 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanier.1765 Posted October 31, 2020 Author Share Posted October 31, 2020 18 hours ago, Pen said: Maybe dehydration . Do his ears feel warm? Could be fever making nose dry. A hydration test is supposed to be skin above shoulders pinging right back into place if pulled up and released. It it’s slow they are dehydrated. Do his gums seem normal if he lets you look/feel or tacky instead of properly moist? My cats have liked Solid Gold canned tripe food (only part tripe), when not feeling well and it could be wetted down for even more fluids. Idk if many cats would or if it’s atypical. It tends to be sold in dog section. If they cannot get enough fluids from eating/drinking, Some cats get hydrated with an external fluids bag and a needle inserted under skin. It isn’t as hard as it sounds . It's look a little better today so I'm thinking it must be dehydration and that's maybe improving because he's consuming more wet food and water. I wish I knew more about animal care. I thought his ears felt warm when I took him to the vet but there was no fever. I did the skin text but I'm not sure if it pinged right back or not because of all his hair but it didn't stay up to where I had pulled it. His gums do feel tacky to me though. Matter of fact, my hand feels quite gross after giving him his medication Ick! Tripe sounds like something stinky and gross that he would love. Thank you so much for your help! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassia Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 I'm so glad he's gradually improving! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 1 hour ago, stephanier.1765 said: It's look a little better today so I'm thinking it must be dehydration and that's maybe improving because he's consuming more wet food and water. I wish I knew more about animal care. I thought his ears felt warm when I took him to the vet but there was no fever. I did the skin text but I'm not sure if it pinged right back or not because of all his hair but it didn't stay up to where I had pulled it. His gums do feel tacky to me though. Matter of fact, my hand feels quite gross after giving him his medication Ick! Tripe sounds like something stinky and gross that he would love. Thank you so much for your help! If his skin didn’t clearly go right on back and his gums seem tacky, I’d assume dehydration. (you could also compare your other cats) there are also hydration powders for animals (to add to water so as to get proper electrolyte balance) plus pet friendly flavors (like liver or tuna rather than lemon lime) which you could ask your vet about 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 I’m concerned that your title change to not emphasizing the update might mean he seems worse again? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanier.1765 Posted October 31, 2020 Author Share Posted October 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, Pen said: I’m concerned that your title change to not emphasizing the update might mean he seems worse again? Oh no, not at all! I only did that because the most recent information wasn't in the first post any more. My tablet makes it difficult to copy/paste which is really annoying because I would love to put the information in both places. I'm sorry, I didn't even think of how that would look! He's eating dinner right now and loving it. My DIL gave me a few cans of prescription food she had for her cat and he's going to town on it. Luckily, he was in the bedroom and none of the other cats were so I was able to shut the door and leave the vultures on the other side. They are losing their minds wanting in. LOL DH is concerned about his breathing. I think he's sounded like that all along but I'll keep my eye on it. The way his spirits are rising I really think he has made the turn towards recovery. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 He’s just so lovely. He’s so much like my Thor, whom I miss so much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellydon Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 Glad he is improving. if I need to get my cats to drink I open a can of tuna and drain the water onto a saucer and they'll usually drink it all 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmom Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 I'm just now getting caught up, but I'm so glad to see he's doing better! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanier.1765 Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 I took Havoc for his follow up visit yesterday and they redid his blood panel. They just called this morning with the results and they weren't good. His platelets are lower than when I took him in just 2 weeks ago and he is anemic. Only his potassium looked a little better but that was probably because we've been giving him some. So they are sending us to a specialty clinic where just getting in the door is a $100 more than our regular vet and since DH is not working right now because of his broken leg, I had to discuss that with him before I could okay the specialty doc. We've decided to go ahead with it. I don't know what this means going forward but we can't not do anything. Havoc is our boy. I'm hoping we can get an appointment soon so we know what we are looking at. 25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, stephanier.1765 said: I took Havoc for his follow up visit yesterday and they redid his blood panel. They just called this morning with the results and they weren't good. His platelets are lower than when I took him in just 2 weeks ago and he is anemic. Only his potassium looked a little better but that was probably because we've been giving him some. So they are sending us to a specialty clinic where just getting in the door is a $100 more than our regular vet and since DH is not working right now because of his broken leg, I had to discuss that with him before I could okay the specialty doc. We've decided to go ahead with it. I don't know what this means going forward but we can't not do anything. Havoc is our boy. I'm hoping we can get an appointment soon so we know what we are looking at. Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that 😞 . I hope they figure it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassia Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 1 hour ago, stephanier.1765 said: I took Havoc for his follow up visit yesterday and they redid his blood panel. They just called this morning with the results and they weren't good. His platelets are lower than when I took him in just 2 weeks ago and he is anemic. Only his potassium looked a little better but that was probably because we've been giving him some. So they are sending us to a specialty clinic where just getting in the door is a $100 more than our regular vet and since DH is not working right now because of his broken leg, I had to discuss that with him before I could okay the specialty doc. We've decided to go ahead with it. I don't know what this means going forward but we can't not do anything. Havoc is our boy. I'm hoping we can get an appointment soon so we know what we are looking at. I'm so sorry about the stress of this situation on top of everything else you're going through. 😞 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoffive Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 I am so sorry . I am sending prayers that they will find answers at the new vet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Hoping and praying the new vet will have answers and solutions for you! Thank you for keeping us updated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanin Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Aww, poor Havoc. Hope the specialty vet figures out just what to do. Hugs + pets! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Prayers and virtual hugs and above the tail and head scritches 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanier.1765 Posted November 13, 2020 Author Share Posted November 13, 2020 Just got home from the specialty vet clinic. They aren't letting the humans in the office right now so I had to speak to the vet over the phone. This left me confused as to what exactly the problem is with Havoc. The key words he used are "non regenerative anemia" and "aplastic anemia" but I couldn't get him to give me a prognosis so I don't know if the treatment plan will give him weeks, months or years. I know there are no guarantees but if this only gives him 6 months, I can't see putting him through all of it just for a few months. If it's only that and he can enjoy the rest of his time, I'd rather bring him home and spoil him rotten. But I don't know if that's even a possibility. I told the vet I didn't understand what he was trying to tell me (I have a harder time following phone conversations because there are no visual cues) and his response was that it's okay for me not to understand. So right now he is still there, undergoing a blood transfusion. His spleen is enlarged from trying to pump some red blood cells into his system but it isn't either enough or not working (see what I mean..I don't understand). Then they want him to come back Monday to do a bone marrow aspiration. Then a tech came to the car to say they will be keeping him 24-48 hours. WTF, which is it?! And that the estimated costs from today are between $1700 and $2500. They made me prepay $2000. I can't even imagine how much a bone marrow aspiration is going to be. I can't stop crying. How are we going to pay for this? How are we not going to pay for this? I can't imagine telling them not to go forward and to put him to sleep. What do I do? 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Many, many (hugs) Hopefully vet or vet tech boardies will see this and can clarify. More (hugs) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 That is really rough! We went through something similar with a beloved older cat two years ago. I could not get any kind of definitive answers from the vet as he suggested continuing treatment for a nebulous list of issues. I have a friend of a friend that works in a different vet office. I discussed my frustrations with her and she said that vets often try to dance around these conversations because many pet owners want to have hope and will do anything to not have to face the end. She suggested I be frank with the vet and focus on what our true expectations were. During the next exchange I laid it all out and told the vet that our top priority was to limit suffering with the distant second being to prolong life. I then asked him to tell me what he would do in our shoes given those goals. He immediately suggested we put her down. My only regret is that we did not have that conversation earlier as it could have prevented about a month of suffering, painful treatments, and costs that we really could not afford. I am not entirely sure I could have gone through with it earlier anyway, but at least we didn't keep going. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoffive Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Oh gosh, I am so sorry. I think you should think about find out the longer term outlook. Is this something he is going to have to treat a lot? Is this something where he is only going to live a little longer? And you have to think about your financial situation too. That is a lot of money just for this weekend. I would lean to putting him to sleep. If I had financial issues, he is older, and it wasn't going to be a long life ahead of him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 14 minutes ago, stephanier.1765 said: Just got home from the specialty vet clinic. They aren't letting the humans in the office right now so I had to speak to the vet over the phone. This left me confused as to what exactly the problem is with Havoc. The key words he used are "non regenerative anemia" and "aplastic anemia" but I couldn't get him to give me a prognosis so I don't know if the treatment plan will give him weeks, months or years. I know there are no guarantees but if this only gives him 6 months, I can't see putting him through all of it just for a few months. If it's only that and he can enjoy the rest of his time, I'd rather bring him home and spoil him rotten. But I don't know if that's even a possibility. I told the vet I didn't understand what he was trying to tell me (I have a harder time following phone conversations because there are no visual cues) and his response was that it's okay for me not to understand. So right now he is still there, undergoing a blood transfusion. His spleen is enlarged from trying to pump some red blood cells into his system but it isn't either enough or not working (see what I mean..I don't understand). Then they want him to come back Monday to do a bone marrow aspiration. Then a tech came to the car to say they will be keeping him 24-48 hours. WTF, which is it?! And that the estimated costs from today are between $1700 and $2500. They made me prepay $2000. I can't even imagine how much a bone marrow aspiration is going to be. I can't stop crying. How are we going to pay for this? How are we not going to pay for this? I can't imagine telling them not to go forward and to put him to sleep. What do I do? Oh sweetie. I don't know that any of us can tell you what to do, but I know I would lean toward just ending his suffering. I am so so sorry. I have had to put two beloved pets down (both were about 12 years old) and I cried for weeks both times. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanier.1765 Posted November 13, 2020 Author Share Posted November 13, 2020 Just now, skimomma said: That is really rough! We went through something similar with a beloved older cat two years ago. I could not get any kind of definitive answers from the vet as he suggested continuing treatment for a nebulous list of issues. I have a friend of a friend that works in a different vet office. I discussed my frustrations with her and she said that vets often try to dance around these conversations because many pet owners want to have hope and will do anything to not have to face the end. She suggested I be frank with the vet and focus on what our true expectations were. During the next exchange I laid it all out and told the vet that our top priority was to limit suffering with the distant second being to prolong life. I then asked him to tell me what he would do in our shoes given those goals. He immediately suggested we put her down. My only regret is that we did not have that conversation earlier as it could have prevented about a month of suffering, painful treatments, and costs that we really could not afford. I am not entirely sure I could have gone through with it earlier anyway, but at least we didn't keep going. I did ask what he would do if he was his cat and he said that he would go forward. I also told him my biggest concern was for him not to suffer but I can't remember what his response was to that. I wish I could have gone in so I could get a better feel for these people. Are they really concerned about the pets or are they after the big bucks? I couldn't tell if I was being upsold or not. Ugh! 6 minutes ago, mommyoffive said: Oh gosh, I am so sorry. I think you should think about find out the longer term outlook. Is this something he is going to have to treat a lot? Is this something where he is only going to live a little longer? And you have to think about your financial situation too. That is a lot of money just for this weekend. I would lean to putting him to sleep. If I had financial issues, he is older, and it wasn't going to be a long life ahead of him. 2 minutes ago, Scarlett said: Oh sweetie. I don't know that any of us can tell you what to do, but I know I would lean toward just ending his suffering. I am so so sorry. I have had to put two beloved pets down (both were about 12 years old) and I cried for weeks both times. I think my problem is not knowing how to say that especially over the phone. If I was there with the vet and Havoc and really understood if he was suffering or not, I think I could say it, even if it was through tears. It's so hard to talk on the phone where your throat is being choked by tears. I hate this so much. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoffive Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Could you call your orginal vet to get their thoughts on what this vet is saying? Do you trust them? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 1 minute ago, stephanier.1765 said: I did ask what he would do if he was his cat and he said that he would go forward. I also told him my biggest concern was for him not to suffer but I can't remember what his response was to that. I wish I could have gone in so I could get a better feel for these people. Are they really concerned about the pets or are they after the big bucks? I couldn't tell if I was being upsold or not. Ugh! I think my problem is not knowing how to say that especially over the phone. If I was there with the vet and Havoc and really understood if he was suffering or not, I think I could say it, even if it was through tears. It's so hard to talk on the phone where your throat is being choked by tears. I hate this so much. I would just call and tell them you have decided to bring him home and do no further treatment. If that is what you want to do. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Just now, mommyoffive said: Could you call your orginal vet to get their thoughts on what this vet is saying? Do you trust them? Good idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Would you understand him better if he did a video chat? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanier.1765 Posted November 13, 2020 Author Share Posted November 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, mommyoffive said: Could you call your orginal vet to get their thoughts on what this vet is saying? Do you trust them? That is a really good idea. I'm going to do that. I trust my vet and I hope they trust this vet they sent me to but I'd rather hear it from them. It would make me feel better if they agreed treatment is worth it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Oh, man. That is so hard, harder if as I think I'm remembering upthread, he's still a youngish cat? It's so much easier if they're already 16+ and they've kind of had a good kitty life already. We've had two young cats that had serious illnesses, with two different outcomes; both came on very suddenly. The first one had congestive heart failure, which it ended up was caused by thyroid problems. He had fluid taken from around his heart (ultrasound, $$, days at the vet), that stabilized him and we were told he'd either have to be on lifelong meds (which added up and had side-effects) or get radioactive thyroid treatment, which might cure it. We ended up opting for the radioactive treatment - if you'd ever told me I'd do that for a cat! But with that his prognosis was good, for a normal life after, and it did indeed cure him and he ended up dying of cancer at a normal old cat age. The other one I'm still heartbroken about. He just very suddenly started projectile vomiting, and it turned out he had a cancer that had blocked his gastrointestinal tract. We had it removed, but decided if they couldn't get it all to put him down. It ended up being too invasive. It seemed like chemo would just make him suffer with the same outcome. They woke him up from surgery just so we could say goodbye. It was so sudden. He was the best cat we'd ever had, and we've had some great ones - a complete lovey teddy bear of a cat. His littermate is still with us these many years later (8 or 9?) and still healthy and fine - he had so many years left in him. So, I guess all that to say I agree with you - it's about quality of life. If meds for anemia could stabilize him, and give him a relatively normal life I'd go for that. But if it's a terminal case or the treatments (like chemo) cause suffering and/or no clear outcome, I'd say no. I'd try to get a really clear idea what this bone marrow thing is for, and what the possible outcomes would be. If it could give you a path to 'he'll live many more years in relative comfort maybe with some meds if we get X result', well, maybe it'd be worth the money. But if it's 'hey, we want to find out how bad it is' but the possible outcomes are 6 weeks vs 6 months or something, but no possibility for recovery, that's a different story. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 What I would do- bring him home and let him live out what time he has left. Make a plan with your regular vet for when it comes time to put him to sleep. Feed him all his favorites and love him. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 36 minutes ago, Scarlett said: I would just call and tell them you have decided to bring him home and do no further treatment. If that is what you want to do. This is what I would do too. I would also ask that they send any test results over to your regular vet. Then call them and ask them to trarnslate it for you and ask their opinions. It seems to me that your cat is not actively dying and it isn't an emergency situation, but I could be wrong. Bringing him home and making further decisions from there is certainly okay. You can always take Havoc back in if you think it is needed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Also, one thing. If/when you do need to put him down many local shelters will do it at a substancially reduced rate. You do need to call ahead, from what I know. My sister had to put her beloved dog down last year. It was much cheaper to do it at the shelter than at her vets. She ended up going to a neighboring county because our county was too busy at the time... and obviously they didn't want to prolong their dog's suffering. Hugs... I know this must be so hard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Steph, I am so sorry you have to be faced with this. It is so similar to what I went through with Thor, my kitty who looked so much like Havoc and was only 7 years old. In my case - and this sounds terrible - but dh point-blank told me, "We are not spending thousands of dollars trying to keep Thor alive for a few more months." He literally told me not to agree to bring the cat in for emergency fluid treatments and 24 hours of emergency observation. By a phone number mishap, he actually knew Thor's prognosis before I did, so in a way, I escaped having to be the one to tell the vet I cannot afford massive investments to save the cat. In my case, which is different for you because your information is less certain, I asked them if I could learn to do the fluid treatments myself and keep him alive for a little while. My goal at that point was to keep him alive until my dd got home from college, because she had a special bond with Thor. So, I did treat him for a few months and kept him alive with daily subcutaneous treatments and a crap-ton of other medicines. In retrospect, I think I dragged it on longer than I probably should have. He was so young and was my favorite cat of all time and I was just so desperate to save him. But he was really sick and he probably was feeling awfully crummy. Again, I am so terribly sorry. Having to put down my dog and then, shortly later, my cat, made me almost afraid to love any more pets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 (edited) Many good ideas here. I would suggest: 1. Calling and saying that you are going to pick him up when his blood transfusion is finished. Just say that you can't afford boarding charges and/or you think he will be more comfortable at home and/or you will be home to keep a good eye on him. If they give you a really pressing reason for needing to keep him, that is different, but it doesn't seem like they have? 2. Making them tell you *exactly* what the bone marrow aspiration is for. I would lean against putting Havoc through that without a really, really good reason [i.e. if it's going to actually change the treatment plan it might be worth it--but if it is just for a more definitive diagnosis, perhaps he doesn't really need it.] 3. Asking them to send the test results today to your regular vet. Yes, yes, yes to calling him or her and getting their opinions and thoughts on the prognosis. You don't have to decide anything today, I wouldn't think. You need more info in any case. Palliative care is just fine as long as you can keep him comfortable. If it turns out that affordable treatment won't help much, and he is suffering, you will know the right thing to do. It's so hard, I know. Edited November 13, 2020 by MercyA 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, stephanier.1765 said: Just got home from the specialty vet clinic. They aren't letting the humans in the office right now so I had to speak to the vet over the phone. This left me confused as to what exactly the problem is with Havoc. The key words he used are "non regenerative anemia" and "aplastic anemia" but I couldn't get him to give me a prognosis so I don't know if the treatment plan will give him weeks, months or years. I know there are no guarantees but if this only gives him 6 months, I can't see putting him through all of it just for a few months. If it's only that and he can enjoy the rest of his time, I'd rather bring him home and spoil him rotten. But I don't know if that's even a possibility. I told the vet I didn't understand what he was trying to tell me (I have a harder time following phone conversations because there are no visual cues) and his response was that it's okay for me not to understand. So right now he is still there, undergoing a blood transfusion. His spleen is enlarged from trying to pump some red blood cells into his system but it isn't either enough or not working (see what I mean..I don't understand). Then they want him to come back Monday to do a bone marrow aspiration. Then a tech came to the car to say they will be keeping him 24-48 hours. WTF, which is it?! And that the estimated costs from today are between $1700 and $2500. They made me prepay $2000. I can't even imagine how much a bone marrow aspiration is going to be. I can't stop crying. How are we going to pay for this? How are we not going to pay for this? I can't imagine telling them not to go forward and to put him to sleep. What do I do? IMO ibring him home and spoil him rotten he could die during procedures to try to prolong life and end up having lots of unpleasant (and expensive) procedures for no improvement in either his or your quality of life this would not necessarily happen, but we had a dog die essentially alone at vet undergoing procedures and regretted not just having her at home being petted and loved and fed any tasty thing she might eat (Also I don’t like the way you are describing that the vet doesn’t care if you understand and tech saying they will be be keeping him. I would call and tell them to get him ready to go home now. Then go get him.) let his end of life be with love of his family So my btdt is bring him home! Edited November 13, 2020 by Pen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 24 minutes ago, MercyA said: Many good ideas here. I would suggest: 1. Calling and saying that you are going to pick him up when his blood transfusion is finished. Just say that you can't afford boarding charges and/or you think he will be more comfortable at home and/or you will be home to keep a good eye on him. If they give you a really pressing reason for needing to keep him, that is different, but it doesn't seem like they have? This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanier.1765 Posted November 13, 2020 Author Share Posted November 13, 2020 I left a voice message for my regular vet. They close between 12 and 2 every day and the phone was busy before then. I hope they call back before my doctor's appointment this afternoon. I really wish I could cancel this appointment but it's too important not to go. What a crappy day. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 I'm so sorry! Many good ideas here. I would add trying to have someone else on your side of the phone call with your normal vet to listen & ask questions along with you. Helpful as sometimes I miss something but DH picks it up or he thinks of different questions. Might not be your DH, but someone should be able to help you. Tagging @ktgrokin case she has input on the diagnosis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 3 hours ago, mommyoffive said: Could you call your orginal vet to get their thoughts on what this vet is saying? Do you trust them? This. Ask them to "translate" what is going on. Maybe even offer to pay an exam fee just to come sit and talk with the vet. But also - ask the speciality clinic to email you a report - explain you have trouble with phone conversations and need it in writing. Ask specifically for the following: What are the possible diagnoses? That you understand there is anemia but what are the potential causes of that anemia? (differential diagnosis is the terminology here) What are the treatments for those things, and do they differ significantly from each other? If not, can you start treatment without further diagnostics, potentially under the care of your normal vet. If they do, can we start with one and see if it helps, and if it doesn't switch treatment? It is Okay to say your husband is out of work, and you need to direct your limited funds to treatment rather than diagnostics if at all possible. That you are happy to sign any paperwork to that effect (to waive liability - yes, people like to sue veterinarians for malpractice - a LOT- so they have to cover their butts) 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeppermintPattie Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 When we were in this situation, the bills added up fast. It was always one more thing, then another, and another. We thought the cat had cancer, but it could have been a more minor problem. I wish I had asked the vet questions like what will this test tell you, what if the results are cancer, and what if we don't do the test but treat the cat for the most likely problem... In the end, it felt like a big scam. We spent tons of money and still needed to put the cat down, all within a week, and I wished I had been smarter. Sometimes vets treat our pets as if they're children, but they're not. Animals don't want to suffer, but they don't fear death, and I think it can even be kinder to put them down than to run all kinds of tests. I'm sorry for you! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Nobody wants to put a beloved pet down, especially at a young age - but it's not just a question of money, it's also about quality of life. A human can decide whether or not they want to suffer somewhat in order to extend their lifespan a little, but a cat doesn't understand why you're bringing him to the vet and leaving him there. If you're not going to meaningfully extend his life, or improve his quality of life, then it's probably better to just bring him home and love him, even if you could afford the most expensive options. And listen - cats fake feeling well. They're really good at it. But when they get sick, sometimes they just go fast and there's nothing anybody can really do. It's nobody's fault, least of all yours. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanin Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 I'm sorry, this is all so stressful. I agree about having your regular vet look at everything. You can also ask your vet to call the speciality vet. I'm sure they would do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Tanaqui said: Nobody wants to put a beloved pet down, especially at a young age - but it's not just a question of money, it's also about quality of life. A human can decide whether or not they want to suffer somewhat in order to extend their lifespan a little, but a cat doesn't understand why you're bringing him to the vet and leaving him there. If you're not going to meaningfully extend his life, or improve his quality of life, then it's probably better to just bring him home and love him, even if you could afford the most expensive options. And listen - cats fake feeling well. They're really good at it. But when they get sick, sometimes they just go fast and there's nothing anybody can really do. It's nobody's fault, least of all yours. I’ve had to put down 6 cats now. The vets will never say, “We think the cat needs to be put down.” They will always, always, always give you a long list of all the things you can do to save the animal’s life. And they’re always very expensive. Oh, maybe not at first, but they add up into the thousands over time. Sometimes over a short amount of time. And the cats do not understand why they’re being left at the vets and they do not understand why they’re poked and prodded and have pills shoved down their throats. I’ve had to be the one each time to say, “Wait...instead of doing all that, shouldn’t we put the cat down?” And then they go on about how they can do dialysis for the kitty. (Are you serious?? This was going to be ongoing.) And I have to say again, “I don’t want to put him through that.” And then finally, they will do what I have asked. Which is usually what is in the cat’s best interest: let them go peacefully instead of putting them through months of physical and emotional pain. I so deeply regret leaving my poor Richie at the vet all those times while they ran tests. He was so messed up emotionally by the time they were done. And I still had to say, “Enough. It’s his time to go.” It is almost impossible to choke out the words, “Shouldn’t we put them down,” and I resent it that the vets make me say them. I wish they would say, “We can provide weekly dialysis for your cat. However at this point, some people decide not to treat and have the animal put down. Would you like to treat or not?” And then I could just choke out, “Not.” But I’ve heard that vets get a lot of flack when they suggest to put cats down, so they no longer suggest it because it distresses their human patients. After having had to put so many cats down, my dh and I chose a dollar amount. Any treatments that will go above $X means that we cannot afford it and we have to let our sweetie go. It’s horrible and clinical, yet it’s the reality of life. And there was a time where we had a kitty who needed treatment and it came down to money. We had to choose not to treat because of the money. Honestly—if he’s being evasive, then he’s probably overtreating your kitty. Get a solid treatment plan that includes treatment over the next year. And if it’s insane, then say you want palliative care only. Edited November 13, 2020 by Garga 7 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 I'm so sorry. Treatment for aplastic anemia in cats is usually very expensive, and it's hard on the cat. I would bring your boy home, at least for now, but probably for good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 More info for you: https://wagwalking.com/cat/condition/aplastic-anemia Honestly, as a huge animal lover, and someone who worked in vet hospitals for 20 years, and a certified vet tech...given your financial situation I'd bring kitty home after the transfusion and then go from there. When kitty goes downhill again I'd put kitty down. There just is not a very good chance of long term success with this diagnosis, and I see no good in putting yourself in debt to prolong the inevitable. That money could go to adopt and care for another cat who also needs a home and will be euthanized if not adopted. I'm not saying your cat is replacable, but that from a moral standpoint, I'd be able to justify it to myself by realizing that cats are euthanized every single day in this country for lack of homes - so although medically I can't save MY cat, I could save another cat's life. If that comes across as horribly insensitive please ignore it totally. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Garga said: The vets will never say, “We think the cat needs to be put down.” Yes. My first dog--my baby--had loss of bladder control, arthritis pain that we couldn't fully alleviate, and neurosis. He spent a lot of time being uncomfortable. 😞 And I waited too long because I didn't want to let him go and I wanted to be be absolutely sure it was time. But even then I didn't feel like the vet was supportive of putting him to sleep--maybe because he didn't have a fatal diagnosis, or because he was still eating well? IDK. But I knew my dog and eventually I had to decide that I was not going to let him suffer more. It was so hard, but I regret waiting too long. Gather your information and go from there. I agree with others: the benefits of being home with you and avoiding invasive treatments and tests are good things to consider. We love you and will be praying for you and Havoc. Edited November 13, 2020 by MercyA 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 I'm so so sorry 😥 (((hugs))) I went through a very similar thing a couple of years ago when my dog developed autoimmune hemolytic anemia. She was only 8 and she was as close to a soul mate as a dog can be. She had two blood transfusions, tons of vet appointments, lots of overnights at the vet hospital, and was on a ton of different medications, and in the end I had to let her go anyway. And then I felt so guilty for having put her through all that misery and separation, and wished I'd just kept her home and spoiled her rotten, because by the time I knew she couldn't be saved, she only had a few days left. ☹️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanier.1765 Posted November 14, 2020 Author Share Posted November 14, 2020 He's home and thrilled to be free of crates or whatever he might have been in at the vet's office. That transfusion has given a burst of energy and he is definitely sowing some wild oats tonight. He wasn't much interested in eating but that's ok. They sent us home with some medication and an appointment to come back in a week to recheck. If it's a bad outcome, which I suspect it will be, we aren't going to do anything further. Actually, we are probably letting him go anyway. There is nothing I can find in my research to gives me much in the way of hope of a long term solution. DH will be coming with me next time. I'm not taking no for an answer. I shouldn't have taken it this time. I knew I'd be put in a situation like that and asked him to come along to help with the decision making but he thought he'd be uncomfortable sitting in the car. So I'm kinda mad about that but that probably goes along with the guilt I feel too. Grief already at work. Thanks everyone for helping me work through today. I probably won't update again. It's too hard. Here he is showing off his fangs one last time. 5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyoffive Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Sending you lots hugs. I am sure he is so happy to be home with you. Lots of prayers to him 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Love and prayers. So glad he is a happy boy at home. ❤️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 I am glad he’s home with you! I expect he is much happier that way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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