Sad About Chris Chistie

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

While that may be true, if KellyAnne truly was “coughing all over the house” with no regard for her family’s health, I find it difficult to muster up any sympathy for her.

Also, she risked her family’s health simply by attending the Supreme Court event and neither wearing a mask nor social distancing. So again, I’m not feeling any respect toward her right now. 

Right but I'm saying that daughter has a major agenda and clearly resents her parents/mom at a level that is quite harmful, so I don't put much stock in her reports of her mom's coughing all around the house, nor of Kellyanne's stated motives or plans. Not that I can't *imagine* Kellyanne indeed brushing it off, covering it up or what-not - monkey-see, monkey-do - but I don't consider a daughter who wants to be emancipated from her parents and displays all the cray-cray on SM a reliable source of information. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

To be fair, I suspect she isn't living in an  emotionally healthy home with attentive and loving parents.  And it likely has nothing to do with their political leanings.     

I'm sure you're not wrong. Sadly. 

She (Kellyanne) "tried" to leave the Trump world in 2016, to focus on her family, if you remember. I have long wondered what in the world Trump holds over her head that has kept her swirling around his orbit. 

[Catwoman]

15 minutes ago, Quill said:

Right but I'm saying that daughter has a major agenda and clearly resents her parents/mom at a level that is quite harmful, so I don't put much stock in her reports of her mom's coughing all around the house, nor of Kellyanne's stated motives or plans. Not that I can't *imagine* Kellyanne indeed brushing it off, covering it up or what-not - monkey-see, monkey-do - but I don't consider a daughter who wants to be emancipated from her parents and displays all the cray-cray on SM a reliable source of information. 

Agenda or not, the kid reported that her mom was coughing all over the house BEFORE KellyAnne admitted that she had tested positive, so I think that adds credibility to the kid’s story. 

And again, KellyAnne’s behavior at the SCOTUS event was extremely irresponsible, so I don’t particularly doubt that she tells her family that she thinks masks are stupid.

The kid might be a drama queen, but I’m not at all convinced that she’s lying about her family’s Covid situation.

 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Agenda or not, the kid reported that her mom was coughing all over the house BEFORE KellyAnne admitted that she had tested positive, so I think that adds credibility to the kid’s story. 

And again, KellyAnne’s behavior at the SCOTUS event was extremely irresponsible, so I don’t particularly doubt that she tells her family that she thinks masks are stupid.

The kid might be a drama queen, but I’m not at all convinced that she’s lying about her family’s Covid situation.

 

 

She also just reported on Tik Tok that she's tested positive, while George says they only took tests an hour ago. 

What purpose does it serve to smear her mom on Twitter? If she had half a heart, she could have reached out to - freakin anybody - and told them, "I think my mom has COVID but I am worried she won't get tested or wear a mask." Not go on SM and malign her mother and try to garner sympathy for herself, "Oh, I have COVID now, thanks to my mom!" 

I don't have a lot of respect for Claudia. Although I agree with Fuzzy Cat that she is probably damaged goods due to upbringing and/or genetics. But I don't think the media world should entertain her rants.

[Terabith]

9 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Agenda or not, the kid reported that her mom was coughing all over the house BEFORE KellyAnne admitted that she had tested positive, so I think that adds credibility to the kid’s story. 

And again, KellyAnne’s behavior at the SCOTUS event was extremely irresponsible, so I don’t particularly doubt that she tells her family that she thinks masks are stupid.

The kid might be a drama queen, but I’m not at all convinced that she’s lying about her family’s Covid situation.

 

 

I thought she posted video of her mom coughing, too?  

I don't think Claudia is generally a trustworthy source, but George is certainly furious, and somewhere I read that another child....Vanessa maybe.....was also complaining on social media about her mom lying about covid and exposing them.  I haven't seen that one myself.  

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Happymomof1 said:

Honestly, what worries me about all of these officials is if none of them get terribly sick. Not that I am wishing for them to be on a vent or anything. But if none of them gets sick, then what message does it send about the seriousness of the disease? It will then be like the flu.  I mean, I do get my flu shot.  The one time I had the flu 20 years ago, it was awful and I couldn't move for a couple of days. But I'm not scared of getting it. No one I know has died from it. They just feel incredibly nasty for a few days. And who knows, maybe this disease is morphing into something like that I don't know. Regardless, if out of the Trump and the 11 people in his circle, no one has any serious bout and/or complications/long term effects, then they will feel justified in what they have been preaching. This is no big deal.  ( Not saying they are right. Just saying, their followers will feel like they have proof that we have overreacted.)

Yes, I have been concerned about that since Friday, particularly as it pertains to DT himself. I do not wish anyone seriously ill or dead; I cannot do that in my heart. But I also really dislike fodder for, "See? No big deal..."

IMO, DT has been through at least brief brushes with fear that this will not end well for him. It's difficult to find that info through the maze of obfuscation that is the official WH behavior and statements. But if his O-sat was below 94% on any or more than one of the past three days, that is not at all good. And the medicines he is on seem to speak to him not having a simple little precautionary hospital stay. 

I'm very bothered that he is being released today and believe that is a 100% political decision and has nothing whatsoever to do with his level of health stability. He's not even outside of the contagious window. 

[SanDiegoMom]

5 minutes ago, Quill said:

She also just reported on Tik Tok that she's tested positive, while George says they only took tests an hour ago. 

What purpose does it serve to smear her mom on Twitter? If she had half a heart, she could have reached out to - freakin anybody - and told them, "I think my mom has COVID but I am worried she won't get tested or wear a mask." Not go on SM and malign her mother and try to garner sympathy for herself, "Oh, I have COVID now, thanks to my mom!" 

I don't have a lot of respect for Claudia. Although I agree with Fuzzy Cat that she is probably damaged goods due to upbringing and/or genetics. But I don't think the media world should entertain her rants.

Isn't she like 15 years old, too?  I mean, 15 year olds are all over the map in terms of maturity.  I definitely feel like these issues are real in the household, but she seems pretty attention seeking as well.  I just hope she gets help, in terms of Covid and mental health!

 

[Catwoman]

8 minutes ago, Quill said:

She also just reported on Tik Tok that she's tested positive, while George says they only took tests an hour ago. 

What purpose does it serve to smear her mom on Twitter? If she had half a heart, she could have reached out to - freakin anybody - and told them, "I think my mom has COVID but I am worried she won't get tested or wear a mask." Not go on SM and malign her mother and try to garner sympathy for herself, "Oh, I have COVID now, thanks to my mom!" 

I don't have a lot of respect for Claudia. Although I agree with Fuzzy Cat that she is probably damaged goods due to upbringing and/or genetics. But I don't think the media world should entertain her rants.

 

Hmmm... maligning others... lying... ranting to the media... 

Sounds to me like the kid may have learned most of her tricks from watching her dear old mom all these years... 😉 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Hmmm... maligning others... lying... ranting to the media... 

Sounds to me like the kid may have learned most of her tricks from watching her dear old mom all these years... 😉 

Well, I'm not saying you're wrong...just that I think it's a crap situation all the way around...

[mathnerd]

36 minutes ago, Happymomof1 said:

Honestly, what worries me about all of these officials is if none of them get terribly sick. Not that I am wishing for them to be on a vent or anything. But if none of them gets sick, then what message does it send about the seriousness of the disease? It will then be like the flu.  I mean, I do get my flu shot.  The one time I had the flu 20 years ago, it was awful and I couldn't move for a couple of days. But I'm not scared of getting it. No one I know has died from it. They just feel incredibly nasty for a few days. And who knows, maybe this disease is morphing into something like that I don't know. Regardless, if out of the Trump and the 11 people in his circle, no one has any serious bout and/or complications/long term effects, then they will feel justified in what they have been preaching. This is no big deal.  ( Not saying they are right. Just saying, their followers will feel like they have proof that we have overreacted.)

Is it just a coincidence that all of Trump's inner circle who got Covid got away with mild symptoms and are able to dismiss their medical treatments as due to an "abundance of caution" and that there is nothing serious at all? 

Edited October 5, 2020 by mathnerd

[Catwoman]

12 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I thought she posted video of her mom coughing, too?  

I don't think Claudia is generally a trustworthy source, but George is certainly furious, and somewhere I read that another child....Vanessa maybe.....was also complaining on social media about her mom lying about covid and exposing them.  I haven't seen that one myself.  

That family seems so messed up, that it’s hard to know what to believe about them, although I do believe Claudia this time, because her story about her mom and Covid seems pretty credible to me. 

If a second child is posting a similar account, that adds more credibility to Claudia’s story, but also makes me sad because it shows that Claudia isn’t the only Conway child who is having problems.

 

[mathnerd]

4 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Hmmm... maligning others... lying... ranting to the media... 

Sounds to me like the kid may have learned most of her tricks from watching her dear old mom all these years... 😉 

Apparently the kid recorded video of Kellyanne walking all over the house coughing and not isolating herself (before Kellyanne got a test).

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Quill said:

Well, I'm not saying you're wrong...just that I think it's a crap situation all the way around...

I agree.

And if a second one of the Conway kids has taken to social media to slam her mother, I am leaning even more toward this being a parenting problem more than it being a “one bad apple” situation where one kid is a drama queen and the others are perfectly normal and happy.

Its very sad.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

She's 15 YO and lives in a family where her parents fight with each over Twitter. I don't think it's fair to suggest she doesn't have a heart. I know this is convoluted but what I found online was that she said she had COVID not that she tested positive for it. She probably assumed it based on her symptoms. 

I agree that the media shouldn't be paying attention to her but I won't blame her for lashing out in a really bad situation. Her parents are in no position to tell those kids anything about how to behave. 

 

Okay, well I retract saying she doesn't have half a heart. I'm really just angry about the whole situation; angry that "we" have COVID, angry that it's not under control, and angry that not all people in our country have had intelligent leadership through this storm. It's galling.

I feel sorry for the whole dysfunctional family. They should all put their phones in one of those locked cookie jars and talk to each other. 

[mathnerd]

2 hours ago, Terabith said:

Claudia says she has it, but George says he and Claudia were just tested an hour ago and don't have the results back. 

It could be that Claudia has symptoms and knows that she is feeling sick and has seen similar symptoms in her mom when mom was walking around the house coughing at everyone. I am sure that getting the test results is just to confirm her fears at this point.

[Terabith]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I agree.

And if a second one of the Conway kids has taken to social media to slam her mother, I am leaning even more toward this being a parenting problem more than it being a “one bad apple” situation where one kid is a drama queen and the others are perfectly normal and happy.

Its very sad.

The quote I saw from second Conway kid wasn't really slamming mom in the way Claudia does.  It was more talking publicly to her friends about how her mom told them she didn't have covid but was coughing all the time.  I don't think it is at all comparable, but again.....I haven't seen the second child's social media posts.  But my impression is that other child isn't seeking publicity but just 12 and talking to friends in the only way anyone in that family knows how to do.  

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Terabith said:

The quote I saw from second Conway kid wasn't really slamming mom in the way Claudia does.  It was more talking publicly to her friends about how her mom told them she didn't have covid but was coughing all the time.  I don't think it is at all comparable, but again.....I haven't seen the second child's social media posts.  But my impression is that other child isn't seeking publicity but just 12 and talking to friends in the only way anyone in that family knows how to do.  

Thanks. 

I do find it very distressing that the second kid confirmed that KellyAnne was coughing all the time and saying she didn’t have Covid, though, because it gives more credence to Claudia’s claim that her mom was “coughing all over the house,” which (if true) was a horribly irresponsible thing for her to have done. 

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

Thanks. 

I do find it very distressing that the second kid confirmed that KellyAnne was coughing all the time and saying she didn’t have Covid, though, because it gives more credence to Claudia’s claim that her mom was “coughing all over the house,” which (if true) was a horribly irresponsible thing for her to have done. 

Yeah.  I'm out of likes, but it is.  

On the one hand, it doesn't seem really out of character, though honestly, I understand so little about anyone in that house.  Claudia legitimately is the one who makes the most sense to me.  Angsty, rebellious 15 year old in a dysfunctional family, that I understand.  That marriage?   No clue.  

On the other hand, denial is a powerful thing, and if Kellyanne legitimately had faith that everyone around her had been tested, maybe she just didn't believe it was really a possibility?  (Or did she find out after it started coming out that so many others had it?  This week has been about 100 years long; I can't remember the sequence of what happened when.)  And I know in my house, it would be super hard to isolate anyone.  Though, that's probably not the Conway's issues.  

[Terabith]

Just now, Ordinary Shoes said:

Didn't KellyAnne recently say she was leaving the White House to work on her marriage? Why hasn't she left yet? It's all so strange. All of this Tik Tok drama makes it pretty obvious that they need to make some changes in their family life. It's not like she needs to keep working for Trump to put food on the table. 

She quietly backtracked and said she'd stay through the election, or maybe through the inauguration.  

[Wheres Toto]

3 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

That's interesting, but I wouldn't assume everyone thinks a mandate makes something feel nasty. We've had a mandate since April and I very much approve, and it always does feel like the community pulling together in a nice way, mandate or not. 

I am soooo happy for our mandates.   I still had someone basically call me a Nazi for requiring masks (as per the mandate) at my business, but it's great to have the backing of a mandate.

 

I'm not sure what to believe about the Conways or Trumps or anything at this point.  I feel like they all could just be lying for some convoluted reason that us semi-sane people will never understand.

[annandatje]

On 10/4/2020 at 6:50 AM, Pawz4me said:

The official line is that the hospitalization is precautionary due to his asthma. But the weight has to be a concern.

But I have to add, and I don't mean to be political or snarky, but -- It's too bad everyone who has Covid isn't privileged enough to be able to get hospital care as a precaution. Sigh.

Yep.  If steroids helped the president so much, why are they not available to everyone who has tested positive for covid regardless of how ill they are deemed to be?  My son was sent home with instructions to call 911 if he was struggling to breathe.  He suffered alone for over three weeks not to mention the post covid fatigue.

Isn't Christie also diabetic?

 

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by annandatje

[Spy Car]

36 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

Interestingly enough, many of the hospitalizations in my county ARE preventative, so it's not just for the rich and/or powerful.

 

We only have that luxury when we flatten the curves.

Wear masks, maintaining social distancing, and practicing hand hygiene are the things that keep hospitals from being overwhelmed.

Without personal responsibility many more Americans will needlessly die.

Bill

 

 

[Farrar]

23 hours ago, Frances said:

As for no one in DC being reckless. First, how would you possibly know that no one in all of DC is being reckless?

 

I know this is taking the thread back a ways. And I mostly agree with this post overall.

But, y'all. Some days in the last week, we have had fewer cases in the city than in the White House. Our count was below 40 all last week and we had falling numbers for two weeks straight. We got down to 14 cases one day last week. That's a feat. Meanwhile, now we're surging again and a statistical part of that is literally White House related cases, especially now that peripheral staff like cleaning people are getting infected there. So all this is just to say... DC is not the issue here. We're wearing our masks. The WH is flouting our laws all while mocking our elected officials and trying to usurp power from them.

As for politicians whose policies I greatly dislike who are now sick... I hope they recover well. I feel sorry for them in that I feel sorry for everyone who gets sick. But they played stupid games and won stupid prizes as the saying goes.

There's not a direct line between taking more risks and getting sick. You can play Russian roulette a lot of times and win. That's how probability works. You can not play Russian roulette and still get shot. Life and Covid are both cruddy like that. But calling out the poor choices is something we have to do. I mean, there are people who think it's some sort of conspiracy that more Republicans than Democrats in elected office overall are getting Covid. We have to say, um, no.

[Ausmumof3]

The monoclonal antibody treatment will only be available to the limited few as I understand.  Because it’s very expensive and difficult to produce.   The steroids should be available to everyone who needs them however there’s no evidence they work in early stages and may be harmful.  There’s some questions over why the president received them when he did because if he was genuinely mild that wouldn’t be the correct course of treatment.  (As they can suppress the immune system when given too early causing more viral replication.  I’m probably wording it wrong.). But it would not be unlike him I think to just want to try everything or possibly he was significantly worse than we’re currently being told.

[Spy Car]

Just now, kdsuomi said:

Seeing as I didn't say otherwise, ok. People kept talking about how this was only an option for the rich when it's just not true, so I presented another perspective that is the reality here.

Assuming the hospitals are clear. Good luck otherwise.

If you want to pretend that wealth, power, and political connections don't confer advantages...well, good luck with that.

Bill

 

 

[Wheres Toto]

15 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

Seeing as I didn't say otherwise, ok. People kept talking about how this was only an option for the rich when it's just not true, so I presented another perspective that is the reality here.

People have to have enough money to pay hospital bills to be there as a preventative measure.   Insurance won't always cover if its precautionary, so there's definitely some privilege to that. 

And I think Bill is saying if the hospital beds are all full of very sick people, your average person isn't going to be able to get admitted as a precaution.  Cause there won't be any beds available.  We saw that in our area back in March/April, people were sent home if they weren't sick enough.   But I'm sure someone famous and/or rich would have found a way.

[catz]

18 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

Seeing as I didn't say otherwise, ok. People kept talking about how this was only an option for the rich when it's just not true, so I presented another perspective that is the reality here.

Plenty of insurance policies won’t cover that in this country either.  

[kbutton]

8 hours ago, Spy Car said:

Severe forms of the flu kill people.

Our grandparents and great-grandparents knew that. 

My great-grandfather survived a bout of the 1918 flu, and he became the "man of the house" when he was 12 because his father did not survive that particularly bout of flu. I didn't know anything about this piece of family history until I was just out of college; it brought history home in a hurry! I had read about it and seen movies with the 1918 flu as part of the plot, but nothing made it real like hearing that my family line could've stopped far before I was born over the flu.

[Catwoman]

31 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

Seeing as I didn't say otherwise, ok. People kept talking about how this was only an option for the rich when it's just not true, so I presented another perspective that is the reality here.

Well, I know that I, personally, said that the hospital where Chris Christie is staying, has plenty of available beds right now. 

I also don’t necessarily think Chris was admitted as a preventative measure. He was having symptoms and he has multiple serious risk factors, so it makes sense that his doctor wanted him in the hospital. It is more than conceivable that his condition could take a sudden turn for the worse, and he is much safer in the hospital than he would be at home. 

[Spy Car]

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

My great-grandfather survived a bout of the 1918 flu, and he became the "man of the house" when he was 12 because his father did not survive that particularly bout of flu. I didn't know anything about this piece of family history until I was just out of college; it brought history home in a hurry! I had read about it and seen movies with the 1918 flu as part of the plot, but nothing made it real like hearing that my family line could've stopped far before I was born over the flu.

My grandmother also survived the 1918 pandemic. She would have been about 19 years old at the time. I heard the stories of that pandemic growing up. I never expected I'd live through something similar.

Imagine if things had gone differently. We wouldn't exist otherwise.

Bill

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Spy Car

[Catwoman]

9 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

My grandmother also survived the 1918 pandemic. She would have been about 19 years old at the time. I heard the stories of that pandemic growing up. I never expected I'd live through something similar.

Imagine if things had gone differently. We wouldn't exist otherwise.

Bill

 

My grandmother nearly died during the 1918 pandemic, too! I never thought we would go through anything like that, either. 

[Frances]

9 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

They do here, but again besides the point. It is being done preventatively for regular people. I get that you guys just want to let your ideas be the only ideas out there that people give credence to, but it's 100% a thing to be hospitalized preventatively for Covid. Our area has been doing that since the beginning and has always been very transparent that has been going on quite regularly here. 

Do you mind sharing where you are at? I just asked my husband who works for the largest hospital in our state and it is not being done there.

[Spy Car]

1 hour ago, kdsuomi said:

They do here, but again besides the point. It is being done preventatively for regular people. I get that you guys just want to let your ideas be the only ideas out there that people give credence to, but it's 100% a thing to be hospitalized preventatively for Covid. Our area has been doing that since the beginning and has always been very transparent that has been going on quite regularly here. 

Um...we all saw that very sick people were being turned away from overwhelmed hospitals. Hospitals only have the capacity to take in patients as a preventative measure if they have beds, staff, PPE, and other necessary equipment--especially when it comes to "mere mortals" (as opposed to those who have "sizzle").

Being individually responsible allows hospitals, doctors, nurses, and staff the ability to treat those who are most vulnerable when they fall ill.

Recklessness undermines that ability. A swamped hospital doesn't have such capabilities. Right?

Bill

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Spy Car

[ktgrok]

8 hours ago, fifiruth said:

I understand your point; however, I really, really do not agree that attacking people is okay. 

 

Ever? An by attacking, you mean calling them out? Obviously no one is suggesting anyone go beat anybody up (plus - that would be close contact, lol). But saying someone is acting selfish or irresponsibly? We shouldn't do that - ever? Does that apply to people who like to drink and drive? Blow cigarrette smoke in your face? Ignore stop signs?

It's okay to tell people doing dangerous things to knock it off. 

[maize]

36 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

My grandmother also survived the 1918 pandemic. She would have been about 19 years old at the time. I heard the stories of that pandemic growing up. I never expected I'd live through something similar.

Imagine if things had gone differently. We wouldn't exist otherwise.

Bill

 

I exist because of the 1918 pandemic.

My great grandmother lost her first husband to the flu. My great grandfather lost his first wife. They both had young children to care for and ended up marrying each other and combining their families, later adding more children including my grandfather.

Had that pandemic never happened my grandfather would never have been born.

[Frances]

7 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Ever? An by attacking, you mean calling them out? Obviously no one is suggesting anyone go beat anybody up (plus - that would be close contact, lol). But saying someone is acting selfish or irresponsibly? We shouldn't do that - ever? Does that apply to people who like to drink and drive? Blow cigarrette smoke in your face? Ignore stop signs?

It's okay to tell people doing dangerous things to knock it off. 

I have to say I’m puzzled by what people get upset about in the grand scheme of things. On the one hand, you have some people, including many leaders, often refusing to follow public health guidelines on the pandemic such as masking, social distancing, and avoiding large gatherings. And people are upset because it puts the health and lives of others at risk. And likely also worsens the economic fallout. And on the other hand, you have people upset about mask mandates (which if everyone followed the guidelines would not be necessary) and people being called out (attacked?) for not following public health guidelines. I’m just not seeing the equivalence.

[Spy Car]

37 minutes ago, maize said:

I exist because of the 1918 pandemic.

My great grandmother lost her first husband to the flu. My great grandfather lost his first wife. They both had young children to care for and ended up marrying each other and combining their families, later adding more children including my grandfather.

Had that pandemic never happened my grandfather would never have been born.

Weird to think about things like that, huh?

Bill

[kristin0713]

17 hours ago, Happymomof1 said:

Honestly, what worries me about all of these officials is if none of them get terribly sick. Not that I am wishing for them to be on a vent or anything. But if none of them gets sick, then what message does it send about the seriousness of the disease? It will then be like the flu.  I mean, I do get my flu shot.  The one time I had the flu 20 years ago, it was awful and I couldn't move for a couple of days. But I'm not scared of getting it. No one I know has died from it. They just feel incredibly nasty for a few days. And who knows, maybe this disease is morphing into something like that I don't know. Regardless, if out of the Trump and the 11 people in his circle, no one has any serious bout and/or complications/long term effects, then they will feel justified in what they have been preaching. This is no big deal.  ( Not saying they are right. Just saying, their followers will feel like they have proof that we have overreacted.)

I am probably going to get flamed for this, but I think it would be wonderful and very telling if they all pull through fine--especially Chris Christie with his current state of health.  If he can get through this with the right care, then the focus should be on making those treatments available to the general public.  I am NOT saying that we should then just go back to life as normal and take no precautions whatsoever because it's not a big deal. Being in NJ, I know people who died early on, and I know a lot of people who got very sick.  But I do think we are looking at an extremely different situation now than we were in March when the doctors had no idea what to do and put everyone on ventilators right away.  I have a very good friend who is now on week three with COVID. She went to the hospital twice for breathing treatments during week two.  She has improved everyday for the past week.  I have to wonder if she would have died back in March.  I wonder if the guy from our church would still be alive if he got it now as opposed to back in March.  I am very hopeful that these recent cases will have a good outcome and that it will help to lessen the fear and give us the right course of action moving forward.  Because honestly, as many people as I know that got very sick, I know more people that have had their lives turned upside down by the shutdown--businesses ruined, depression, drug addiction.  If the right treatments can really make this "like the flu" for most people, we are in a very different place than before. 

[J-rap]

12 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

They do here, but again besides the point. It is being done preventatively for regular people. I get that you guys just want to let your ideas be the only ideas out there that people give credence to, but it's 100% a thing to be hospitalized preventatively for Covid. Our area has been doing that since the beginning and has always been very transparent that has been going on quite regularly here. 

Maybe part of the confusion is how the word "preventatively" is used.  To me, it means that you're experiencing symptoms that are completely treatable at home, but choose to be hospitalized anyway as an extra precaution, in case things suddenly get worse.  

I live in a state with excellent healthcare.  We have an entire hospital set aside for Covid-only in my city alone.  But I'm certain that no one's insurance here (even the best private insurance) would allow a person to be hospitalized preventatively for the definition as I've understood it.  

You're hospitalized only if it's no longer treatable at home, or things seem to be suddenly and quickly spiraling out of control, or if you already have critical underlying health issues that dramatically increase the likelihood of things not ending well.

Edited October 6, 2020 by J-rap

[Not_a_Number]

38 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

I am probably going to get flamed for this, but I think it would be wonderful and very telling if they all pull through fine--especially Chris Christie with his current state of health.  If he can get through this with the right care, then the focus should be on making those treatments available to the general public.  I am NOT saying that we should then just go back to life as normal and take no precautions whatsoever because it's not a big deal. Being in NJ, I know people who died early on, and I know a lot of people who got very sick.  But I do think we are looking at an extremely different situation now than we were in March when the doctors had no idea what to do and put everyone on ventilators right away.  I have a very good friend who is now on week three with COVID. She went to the hospital twice for breathing treatments during week two.  She has improved everyday for the past week.  I have to wonder if she would have died back in March.  I wonder if the guy from our church would still be alive if he got it now as opposed to back in March.  I am very hopeful that these recent cases will have a good outcome and that it will help to lessen the fear and give us the right course of action moving forward.  Because honestly, as many people as I know that got very sick, I know more people that have had their lives turned upside down by the shutdown--businesses ruined, depression, drug addiction.  If the right treatments can really make this "like the flu" for most people, we are in a very different place than before. 

I don’t think you’ll get flamed, but I also haven’t seen much evidence of reduced IFR just yet. I’m sure we’ll get there, just not yet.

[Happy2BaMom]

50 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

If the right treatments can really make this "like the flu" for most people, we are in a very different place than before. 

This is the goal, but we are not there yet (but we are getting there). 
 

And the shutdowns and lockdowns could be largely over, as they already are in many other countries (isolated & quickly-contained outbreaks notwithstanding), if we had much better citizen compliance with masking and quarantining, as well as  contact tracing and mapping. 
 

A lot of the continuing economic and social fall-out, affecting so many people, is our own damn fault. 

[Lady Florida.]

Touchless keypads are hit and miss here. There are some you can set up with apps (I've done Target, Publix, Walmart, and Sams). Others depend on your bank. Our credit union doesn't support Google Pay, Apple Pay, or any other such pay system. So, we can do touchless in some places but  for ones that depend on a remote pay system that isn't from the store's app we have to use the keypad. 

[mathnerd]

42 minutes ago, Plum said:

It’s taken us this long to find some treatments that work. Now we have to make them widely available. 

Is there any clear indication that the president’s team of doctors followed a set of protocols that produced desirable outcomes? I got the impression that he was given a set of treatments in the hopes that they are strong enough to control his infection. I just watched the video of Trump walking into the White House and he looked like he had trouble breathing.

[kristin0713]

33 minutes ago, Happy2BaMom said:

And the shutdowns and lockdowns could be largely over, as they already are in many other countries (isolated & quickly-contained outbreaks notwithstanding), if we had much better citizen compliance with masking and quarantining, as well as  contact tracing and mapping. 

We have had excellent compliance NJ and have had great numbers for months.  We still have some restrictions that I believe should be lifted.  (Not all, but some.) 

[Matryoshka]

32 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

Touchless keypads are hit and miss here. There are some you can set up with apps (I've done Target, Publix, Walmart, and Sams). Others depend on your bank. Our credit union doesn't support Google Pay, Apple Pay, or any other such pay system. So, we can do touchless in some places but  for ones that depend on a remote pay system that isn't from the store's app we have to use the keypad. 

Why would you need an App of any kind for touchless payment?  Here we just put the chip card in the reader, all done.  Actually, if you don't have a chip, you can still just swipe.  No App, no remote system, just a credit card.  They just don't make us sign anything anymore.  Never have to touch anything but my own card.

What are you even using the keypad for?  Is if for people who need a PIN?  Are they still making you sign things?

[catz]

Well to be fair, the vast majority do recover and have all along including the elderly and those with comorbidities. I don't think we can draw any sweeping conclusions about these treatments based on a sample size of 20 give or take regardless of comorbidities and their ability to get the best medical follow up.  Viral load also makes a difference in severity and outcomes, if they were inside and outside and shuffling about, viral loads for these case may not have been as high as they could have been and it also depends on patient 0.   

 I also don't think anyone can declare success less than a week after testing positive if they are still symptomatic.  I know much younger people locally who struggled for 1-3 months, one needing to do follow up with specialists.  I just read an article about a guy who seemingly recovered and dropped dead of a heart attack within 3 months of infection, autopsy showed viral related heart damage that would have been missed.  There is still a lot we don't know and it doesn't seem like anyone is working to collate data on actual progress.  We're also testing and identifying a lot more cases than we were at the beginning.  

[itsheresomewhere]

18 hours ago, DorothyNJ said:

I am soooo happy for our mandates.   I still had someone basically call me a Nazi for requiring masks (as per the mandate) at my business, but it's great to have the backing of a mandate.

 

I'm not sure what to believe about the Conways or Trumps or anything at this point.  I feel like they all could just be lying for some convoluted reason that us semi-sane people will never understand.

That particular nut is all over the groups calling anyone who wears a mask a nazi/sheep/whatever word fits her mood.  

[EmilyGF]

36 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Well to be fair, the vast majority do recover and have all along including the elderly and those with comorbidities. I don't think we can draw any sweeping conclusions about these treatments based on a sample size of 20 give or take regardless of comorbidities and their ability to get the best medical follow up.  Viral load also makes a difference in severity and outcomes, if they were inside and outside and shuffling about, viral loads for these case may not have been as high as they could have been and it also depends on patient 0.   

 I also don't think anyone can declare success less than a week after testing positive if they are still symptomatic.  I know much younger people locally who struggled for 1-3 months, one needing to do follow up with specialists.  I just read an article about a guy who seemingly recovered and dropped dead of a heart attack within 3 months of infection, autopsy showed viral related heart damage that would have been missed.  There is still a lot we don't know and it doesn't seem like anyone is working to collate data on actual progress.  We're also testing and identifying a lot more cases than we were at the beginning.  

According to the doctor on TWIV, even without any treatment, Trump would have had a 20% chance of hospitalization by week 2. So even without any treatment there would have been an 80% chance that he would have been fine. He also got the treatments at the right time; many "normal" people don't have quick enough access to tests to get the treatments when they can be effective.

I don't say that to minimize the disease. What scares me is that sometimes (but rarely, however much more commonly than with the flu) the results are really extreme: extended fatigue, long term lung damage, mental effects, etc. Apparently the Wall Street Journal is going to have an article soon about hospitals opening up special care sections for the "long haulers" because so many people are having so many long term problems. 

[Lady Florida.]

47 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Why would you need an App of any kind for touchless payment?  Here we just put the chip card in the reader, all done.  Actually, if you don't have a chip, you can still just swipe.  No App, no remote system, just a credit card.  They just don't make us sign anything anymore.  Never have to touch anything but my own card.

What are you even using the keypad for?  Is if for people who need a PIN?  Are they still making you sign things?

We put the chip card in, but then have to either put in a pin if running it as a debit card, or hit enter if running it as credit. Additionally, you have to answer yes or no when it asks if you want cash back. You don't have to sign, but you definitely have to touch the screen or key pad.

 

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, kristin0713 said:

then the focus should be on making those treatments available to the general public.  I am NOT saying that we should then just go back to life as normal and take no precautions whatsoever because it's not a big deal. Being in NJ, I know people who died early on, and I know a lot of people who got very sick.  But I do think we are looking at an extremely different situation now than we were in March when the doctors had no idea what to do and put everyone on ventilators right away.

Yes!! This is what the prominent cases are highlighting, that the care IS improving. I so hope they can get the antibody therapies approved that Trump got so we all can have access. It would make a huge difference for us all to be livable after 3 days instead of multiple weeks. Huge difference.