What could possibly go wrong?

[mom2scouts]

I don't even know why we shut down everything for months and cancelled everything for summer. I can't even go on Facebook right now because I have to see people who just don't have a clue. There is one family who posted about their out of state beach vacation with five other large families, the week after they got back from vacation (to a high risk state) they posted about their group birthday party for all their family friends whose kids have June birthdays (7 kids in all), and today she's posting about how they're having "Pool Hop Day". She has a backyard pool, but she and several friends are going to the homes of all their other friends with pools and are on at least house #6. Sure, they're all young and healthy and probably won't get sick, but if just one of them is an asymptomatic carrier, they've exposed an unbelievable amount of people. Her kids are in sports activities and already back to practice where the owner has spent thousands of dollars trying to comply with regulations that allow him to open his business safely. I understand wanting to get out and have some summer fun. I've been cautiously venturing out and having some social meetings, but come on. I really want to ask what the F&@k is wrong with her and doesn't she realize we're in a pandemic. Oh, and she's a teacher, so after her summer of fun she'll get to expose a whole new group of people.

[PrincessMommy]

2 minutes ago, mom2scouts said:

I don't even know why we shut down everything for months and cancelled everything for summer. I can't even go on Facebook right now because I have to see people who just don't have a clue. There is one family who posted about their out of state beach vacation with five other large families, the week after they got back from vacation (to a high risk state) they posted about their group birthday party for all their family friends whose kids have June birthdays (7 kids in all), and today she's posting about how they're having "Pool Hop Day". She has a backyard pool, but she and several friends are going to the homes of all their other friends with pools and are on at least house #6. Sure, they're all young and healthy and probably won't get sick, but if just one of them is an asymptomatic carrier, they've exposed an unbelievable amount of people. Her kids are in sports activities and already back to practice where the owner has spent thousands of dollars trying to comply with regulations that allow him to open his business safely. I understand wanting to get out and have some summer fun. I've been cautiously venturing out and having some social meetings, but come on. I really want to ask what the F&@k is wrong with her and doesn't she realize we're in a pandemic. Oh, and she's a teacher, so after her summer of fun she'll get to expose a whole new group of people.

wow.. I tend to have a higher tolerance than most people here, but even that is way beyond my comfort level... "pool hop"???  WTH are they thinking?

 

[Pen]

Maybe she’s one of the people hoping to get it sooner rather than later. 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, PrincessMommy said:

wow.. I tend to have a higher tolerance than most people here, but even that is way beyond my comfort level... "pool hop"???  WTH are they thinking?

 

I'm seeing the same stuff. Non distanced parties, get togethers, group vacations, etc. 

56 minutes ago, Pen said:

Maybe she’s one of the people hoping to get it sooner rather than later. 

I wish they'd just admit that what they really are going to do is "spread it sooner rather than later". 

[Pen]

3 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I'm seeing the same stuff. Non distanced parties, get togethers, group vacations, etc. 

I wish they'd just admit that what they really are going to do is "spread it sooner rather than later". 

 

Yes.  It would be nice if all the people who want to get it sooner rather than later, or just don’t care, along with the type of doctors and medical personnel described by StaceyinLA who seem also not to care, could go occupy somewhere separate from people who don’t want to get it sooner rather than later. 

[mathnerd]

1 hour ago, mom2scouts said:

I don't even know why we shut down everything for months and cancelled everything for summer. I can't even go on Facebook right now because I have to see people who just don't have a clue. There is one family who posted about their out of state beach vacation with five other large families, the week after they got back from vacation (to a high risk state) they posted about their group birthday party for all their family friends whose kids have June birthdays (7 kids in all), and today she's posting about how they're having "Pool Hop Day". She has a backyard pool, but she and several friends are going to the homes of all their other friends with pools and are on at least house #6. Sure, they're all young and healthy and probably won't get sick, but if just one of them is an asymptomatic carrier, they've exposed an unbelievable amount of people. Her kids are in sports activities and already back to practice where the owner has spent thousands of dollars trying to comply with regulations that allow him to open his business safely. I understand wanting to get out and have some summer fun. I've been cautiously venturing out and having some social meetings, but come on. I really want to ask what the F&@k is wrong with her and doesn't she realize we're in a pandemic. Oh, and she's a teacher, so after her summer of fun she'll get to expose a whole new group of people.

Didn't you get the memo that reopening everything means Summer is back on, full swing??? Can't let a rumored pandemic hamper the fun in the sun for the kids, can we? (#sarcastic in case my tone is not coming through).

IRL, most deniers in my life are slowly beginning to wear masks outdoors, canceling social events, staying home etc once the deaths hit them closer to home (in most cases, one of their family member is in ICU or dead etc).

[happi duck]

Ugh.

[Kanin]

2 hours ago, mathnerd said:

IRL, most deniers in my life are slowly beginning to wear masks outdoors, canceling social events, staying home etc once the deaths hit them closer to home (in most cases, one of their family member is in ICU or dead etc).

I would really like to understand why it has to hit close to home before so many people take it seriously. I mean, I can imagine what it would feel like if my mom or DH were hospitalized, or on a vent, or if one of my students had a grandparent die. Do I just have a more active imagination, or what? 

Ugh. I'd be very tempted to ask this person what her deal is. 

[ktgrok]

3 minutes ago, Kanin said:

I would really like to understand why it has to hit close to home before so many people take it seriously. I mean, I can imagine what it would feel like if my mom or DH were hospitalized, or on a vent, or if one of my students had a grandparent die. Do I just have a more active imagination, or what? 

Ugh. I'd be very tempted to ask this person what her deal is. 

You know, I read something a while back that said that reading, particularly fiction, helped make people more empathetic, and more able to imagine other people's perspectives. We know most people in this country don't read for pleasure...maybe that is the difference?

[Kanin]

1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

You know, I read something a while back that said that reading, particularly fiction, helped make people more empathetic, and more able to imagine other people's perspectives. We know most people in this country don't read for pleasure...maybe that is the difference?

Could be. My DH also said that many people are "low information" - not reading or watching much news, or not having internet access to access news, etc. So when they hear that things are open again, they assume it's safe. Or if people are just getting "information" from friends on FB, and if the friends don't think covid is a big deal, then the only news some people get is that it's not that serious.

I still have a hard time picturing ANYONE not hearing about NYC, Europe, etc. but what do I know. 

[Pawz4me]

I think there are a lot of really ignorant and really selfish people in our country.

It's as simple as that.

[Pen]

31 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

You know, I read something a while back that said that reading, particularly fiction, helped make people more empathetic, and more able to imagine other people's perspectives. We know most people in this country don't read for pleasure...maybe that is the difference?

 

That might be significant!

 

I also think that I am more attuned to places I have ever lived, or even visited, or known someone who lived there, than places totally unfamiliar.  And that might also apply to reading—if I have ever read a book set in ___ maybe I have more of a sense of it too,  in addition to perhaps a general empathy. 

[mathnerd]

1 hour ago, Kanin said:

I would really like to understand why it has to hit close to home before so many people take it seriously. I mean, I can imagine what it would feel like if my mom or DH were hospitalized, or on a vent, or if one of my students had a grandparent die. Do I just have a more active imagination, or what? 

Ugh. I'd be very tempted to ask this person what her deal is. 

I asked: apparently, NYC seemed too far away and they thought that it was just NY that had "big virus problems" and did not expect it to show up in their sleepy, small town. No amount of convincing that all it takes is one person passing through their town to spread it (perhaps at a convenience store or a Walmart). It took the infection to hit their social circle before they would wear masks.

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

I just found a woman on FB who I grew up with as a child. We exchanged pics of kids, chatted, etc. Then she started sending videos of how Obama paid for the virus to be let loose, how it’s less deadly than the flu, etc. Each video got kookier. She said people die because of CO2 in their masks.She’d rather be armed than masked.I sent a note telling her the numbers in simple terms. Then the last one said that George Floyd was not dead, the old man in Buffalo faked his head injury, and it’s all a ploy to make Trump lose. I truly believe some people cant be helped. It’s even more depressing to know her daughter is a cop and posts the same cr@p she does. More small town Texas lunacy.

Man.  My sister lives in Houston and says she won’t be wearing a mask even though it is mandated.  And that she knows a woman who has a family member who is a doctor who sent in a bunch of fake tests with fake names and they all came back positive.  So proof they are faking the numbers!  And lying about what people are dying of.  I told her I did not believe doctors, to a widespread degree would risk their medical license by signing a death certificate fraudulently.  And I ask her who is benefiting by faking this and overblowing numbers?  The economy is affecting everyone, so who benefits?  She did not answer.  She just said, it is ok Sis, we don’t have to agree on this.  Mind. Blown.  And this 51 year old woman makes 150k a year.  She isn’t stupid...and yet it is as if she is an alien from another planet about this stuff.    

[Wheres Toto]

For me, reading on here and being less than 30 minutes from NYC made it very real.  

Dh would have been prime to be a denier except he knows people who live in China and was actually supposed to go there on a business trip in March.  So he was hearing about it from there, as well as from me.  Now he's deliberately seeking out reliable information so he's keeping up on how things are going.  I am so glad it worked out this way.  This could have easily been way more miserable and scary for me without him on board. 

[Shoeless]

4 hours ago, Kanin said:

I still have a hard time picturing ANYONE not hearing about NYC, Europe, etc. but what do I know. 

 

They've heard about what happened there, but the people around here insist that Dr. Fauci designed a flu vaccine that is actually laced with covid.  Everyone in Italy supposedly got this Fauci flu vaccine, and that's why they died.  When that wasn't enough, he spread the vaccine out to NYC, I guess? Now he's moving on to Texas, Florida, and Arizona. Something something something Bill Gates something something 5g Internet stealing the oxygen from our lungs something something something Where's my tinfoil hat to protect me from the Alien Q-Ray mind controlz?!? 

If people spent just a fraction of their time actually learning real science instead of chasing after illogical conspiracy theories that read like poorly written comic books, we might actually stand a chance of avoiding the apocalyptic meltdown that is about to hit Texas. But nah....4th of July! Freedom! Woo hoo! 

😠 

 

[DawnM]

My friend is a family doc and says she has all kinds of people who are testing positive but still going to work, refusing to wear masks, not complying at all.   And there is nothing she can do.

[Innisfree]

24 minutes ago, DawnM said:

My friend is a family doc and says she has all kinds of people who are testing positive but still going to work, refusing to wear masks, not complying at all.   And there is nothing she can do.

Hasn't enforcing quarantine been possible, historically? I'm sure this has happened in the past.

Current attitudes and conspiracy theories obviously don't help.😒

[Innisfree]

This article outlines the very lengthy history of quarantines, which are certainly enforceable. I think the issue is misinformation and political will.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/short-history-of-quarantine/

Clearly doctors alone can't do this, but we ought to be supporting their efforts by insisting diagnosed individuals self-quarantine or face further consequences. This is not the first time humanity has experienced a pandemic. We know how this works .

As my mil used to say, "Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other."

Edited July 4, 2020 by Innisfree

[DawnM]

16 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

Hasn't enforcing quarantine been possible, historically? I'm sure this has happened in the past.

Current attitudes and conspiracy theories obviously don't help.😒

 

Yes, when leaders are respected and comply with medical advice of professionals.

 

[bibiche]

15 hours ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

I just found a woman on FB who I grew up with as a child. We exchanged pics of kids, chatted, etc. Then she started sending videos of how Obama paid for the virus to be let loose, how it’s less deadly than the flu, etc. Each video got kookier. She said people die because of CO2 in their masks.She’d rather be armed than masked.I sent a note telling her the numbers in simple terms. Then the last one said that George Floyd was not dead, the old man in Buffalo faked his head injury, and it’s all a ploy to make Trump lose. I truly believe some people cant be helped. It’s even more depressing to know her daughter is a cop and posts the same cr@p she does. More small town Texas lunacy.

Maybe not so long lost after all: pretty sure she’s on WTM and I was reading something posted by her yesterday. 

[Kanin]

12 hours ago, mathnerd said:

I asked: apparently, NYC seemed too far away and they thought that it was just NY that had "big virus problems" and did not expect it to show up in their sleepy, small town. No amount of convincing that all it takes is one person passing through their town to spread it (perhaps at a convenience store or a Walmart). It took the infection to hit their social circle before they would wear masks.

Wow! You're brave. Too bad they didn't think it would reach their town.

[Kanin]

8 hours ago, MissLemon said:

They've heard about what happened there, but the people around here insist that Dr. Fauci designed a flu vaccine that is actually laced with covid.  Everyone in Italy supposedly got this Fauci flu vaccine, and that's why they died. 

Seriously?!?! I'd have to move.

[Xahm]

My husband and I were talking about the phenomenon of intelligent people going for conspiracy theories. In our circle, this is pretty much only engineers who have this bent. Not to say all engineers we know so this, or that only engineers do it, but they are over represented. Like someone said up thread, I think it is due in large part to a lack of novel reading in general and humanities education in particular. They study a field that has definite black or white answers and become very good at those. Then, when faced with a world where scientific consensus develops/changes, they see this as dishonest instead of part of the process. 

I'm doubting myself, though, because in more liberal circles I see people doing the same thing with history instead of science. (Though not a solely liberal problem, to be sure!) Lots of people thinking that they had been given the wrong view of history and now have the truth, neatly contained in this approved book list which they may or may not have actually read. I want to say "That's not how any of this works! History isn't a set of black and white answers!"

[sassenach]

24 minutes ago, xahm said:

My husband and I were talking about the phenomenon of intelligent people going for conspiracy theories. In our circle, this is pretty much only engineers who have this bent. Not to say all engineers we know so this, or that only engineers do it, but they are over represented. Like someone said up thread, I think it is due in large part to a lack of novel reading in general and humanities education in particular. They study a field that has definite black or white answers and become very good at those. Then, when faced with a world where scientific consensus develops/changes, they see this as dishonest instead of part of the process. 

I'm doubting myself, though, because in more liberal circles I see people doing the same thing with history instead of science. (Though not a solely liberal problem, to be sure!) Lots of people thinking that they had been given the wrong view of history and now have the truth, neatly contained in this approved book list which they may or may not have actually read. I want to say "That's not how any of this works! History isn't a set of black and white answers!"

Huh. All the engineers in my life (and I have more than the average bear, I think) are prolific readers. 
 

The loudest people on FB are my anti-vax homeschool mom friends, unfortunately. The ones that sell oils and rely on homeopathy for all their needs. One in particular can turn absolutely anything into a government conspiracy. The national coin shortage is us moving to an all-digital, global currency so they can track all of our spending, by the way. 
 

ETA: I didn’t finish my thought. All these women are huge readers, so I don’t know if that’s the issue. I think it’s more that their information source is 100% these conspiracy loops. I also think (getting CC here) that there’s almost some level of spiritual warfare involved here. Like, they are steeped in deception and can’t dig themselves out of that way of thinking. I haven’t completely fleshed out those thoughts but it’s something I’ve been pondering recently. Like one mom in particular hands out homeopathic medical advice left and right online like she’s some sage practitioner. But IRL the health of both herself and her kids has always been a disaster. She’s not anyone I would ever go to for health advice based on actually observing her family. But she’s also really kind and loving and I actually like her a lot. It’s all hard to reconcile. 

Edited July 4, 2020 by sassenach

[ktgrok]

I should clarify that the reading thing was in response to people who just can't wrap their head around things not happenign to people they actually know. 

The conspiracy theorists are  different category I think, who have more than enough imagination, lol. 

[Xahm]

13 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Huh. All the engineers in my life (and I have more than the average bear, I think) are prolific readers. 
 

The loudest people on FB are my anti-vax homeschool mom friends, unfortunately. The ones that sell oils and rely on homeopathy for all their needs. One in particular can turn absolutely anything into a government conspiracy. The national coin shortage is us moving to an all-digital, global currency so they can track all of our spending, by the way. 
 

ETA: I didn’t finish my thought. All these women are huge readers, so I don’t know if that’s the issue. I think it’s more that their information source is 100% these conspiracy loops. I also think (getting CC here) that there’s almost some level of spiritual warfare involved here. Like, they are steeped in deception and can’t dig themselves out of that way of thinking. I haven’t completely fleshed out those thoughts but it’s something I’ve been pondering recently. Like one mom in particular hands out homeopathic medical advice left and right online like she’s some sage practitioner. But IRL the health of both herself and her kids has always been a disaster. She’s not anyone I would ever go to for health advice based on actually observing her family. But she’s also really kind and loving and I actually like her a lot. It’s all hard to reconcile. 

I could very well be in a strange bubble. Several of the ones in thinking of are related, so that could be the common thread, too. And they went to the same engineering school, which is a good one, but maybe should have more liberal arts.

I think it's always hard looking at people you love and respect in many ways but who have bought a skewed version of reality. When when they agree with you, if they do it for the wrong reason, it's hard to converse and you have to steer conversations towards safe waters, which hurts relationships.

[RootAnn]

4 hours ago, Innisfree said:

This article outlines the very lengthy history of quarantines, which are certainly enforceable. I think the issue is misinformation and political will.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/short-history-of-quarantine/

I just have to laugh at the dichotomy between your description  of this being a lengthy history and the title being a short history. :P 

[SereneHome]

This is why, when everyone was furious with how our govt and president handled Covid, I kept insisting that there is NOTHING they could have done. Everyone kept saying "oh if we only did as country X or country Z". Does.not.matter!!

The mentality of American people is entirely different. They don't like being told what to do. They see even a hint of restrictions as their personal rights' infringement. Evidently wearing a mask is one step away from being branded for life by some secret woodoo govt organization!  We are in deep deep doo-doo and it's going to get worse come fall!

[math teacher]

Dh has been on vacation and he got a text from a coworker yesterday that someone where he works tested positive. The company's response was to hand him a mask. Some workers are just not going in-I don't know what it will be like when dh is supposed to go back next Wednesday.

[mathnerd]

28 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

This is why, when everyone was furious with how our govt and president handled Covid, I kept insisting that there is NOTHING they could have done. Everyone kept saying "oh if we only did as country X or country Z". Does.not.matter!!

The mentality of American people is entirely different. They don't like being told what to do. They see even a hint of restrictions as their personal rights' infringement. Evidently wearing a mask is one step away from being branded for life by some secret woodoo govt organization!  We are in deep deep doo-doo and it's going to get worse come fall!

I have a fair share of mask deniers in my life who I try to gently prod into wearing masks every so often. In the process, I was told that being asked to wear a mask is the same as taking away one's rights to breathe in public spaces and that it is UnAmerican 🤷‍♀️I was also told that only people with "sheep" mentality would follow pointless rules because masks "do nothing". This is a common mindset. But, I would also like to point out that once the infection has begun to spread alarmingly to most parts of america and is not restricted to the East or West coast, this attitude is changing.

[Wheres Toto]

3 hours ago, sassenach said:

Huh. All the engineers in my life (and I have more than the average bear, I think) are prolific readers. 
 

The loudest people on FB are my anti-vax homeschool mom friends, unfortunately. The ones that sell oils and rely on homeopathy for all their needs. One in particular can turn absolutely anything into a government conspiracy. The national coin shortage is us moving to an all-digital, global currency so they can track all of our spending, by the way. 

This is what I see mostly around here at least in homeschool circles.  It's the anti-vaxxers calling it a conspiracy or refusing to wear masks or going to playgrounds and pulling down the caution tape so their kids can all play together spreading the germs around.  

In my family, it's mostly the relatively uneducated blue collar workers who grew up in extremely poor circumstances.   They believe the conspiracies that confirm their biases.

Dh would have eventually come around.  Once things started looking really bad in NYC, I think he would have been willing to be careful and onboard with restrictions.  I'm just happy I was able to get him on board way back in February, rather than it taking until April.    He's a pharmaceutical chemist, so fairly well educated in a semi-relevant field, but he also thinks all politicians are crooks and liars and you can hardly ever believe what you hear from them. 

[Innisfree]

2 hours ago, RootAnn said:

I just have to laugh at the dichotomy between your description  of this being a lengthy history and the title being a short history. :P 

Yeah, you're right!😄

I was thinking more that the article starts out with the Justinian code, and goes through 9/11; but it's still actually short.

[rebcoola]

My  friends that are anti mask are mostly anti vax.   It's interesting they are all super intense about car seats buying the safest very best keeping kids rear facing until 4+ in etc.  So why do they believe in car seats but not the others??? 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Math teacher said:

Dh has been on vacation and he got a text from a coworker yesterday that someone where he works tested positive. The company's response was to hand him a mask. Some workers are just not going in-I don't know what it will be like when dh is supposed to go back next Wednesday.

Wait - the company has a person who is currently positive, contagious, and kept him coming in to work?????

[RootAnn]

26 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

but he also thinks all politicians are crooks and liars and you can hardly ever believe what you hear from them. 

Well, other than adding the word "almost" in front of "all", I agree with him.

I think it has been important in this circumstance to even have some slight disbelief of the "experts" on COVID-issues. Too much unknown to believe "wash your hands" was the answer to not getting it, that it couldn't be spread human-to-human, or that people with no symptoms (yet or ever) couldn't spread it. Even the 14-day quarantine isn't a rock solid time frame. I don't blame those who haven't been able to keep up.

Many of my friends are covid-deniers. Even those few who understand the danger end up attending large family & friend gatherings where there are no masks and no social distancing. 

[I'm an engineer & I'll admit to donning my tin foil hat occasionally. I'm also a big reader.]

[SereneHome]

40 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

I have a fair share of mask deniers in my life who I try to gently prod into wearing masks every so often. In the process, I was told that being asked to wear a mask is the same as taking away one's rights to breathe in public spaces and that it is UnAmerican 🤷‍♀️I was also told that only people with "sheep" mentality would follow pointless rules because masks "do nothing". This is a common mindset. But, I would also like to point out that once the infection has begun to spread alarmingly to most parts of america and is not restricted to the East or West coast, this attitude is changing.

I really really hope so

[ktgrok]

I think it is fine to not trust politicians (although a lot of mask haters believe anything a certain politician says) but there is a big leap between not trusing politicians and not trusting science. In the age of the internet there is almost no excuse for not just looking up the info yourself, if you don't believe what the media/politicians say. 

 

[TravelingChris]

18 hours ago, Kanin said:

Could be. My DH also said that many people are "low information" - not reading or watching much news, or not having internet access to access news, etc. So when they hear that things are open again, they assume it's safe. Or if people are just getting "information" from friends on FB, and if the friends don't think covid is a big deal, then the only news some people get is that it's not that serious.

I still have a hard time picturing ANYONE not hearing about NYC, Europe, etc. but what do I know. 

The low information was what the minority leader of Al Senate said was the issue w many of the minorities in my state said was the reason there were high spikes in cases with minority communities soon after partial reopening.  They misunderstood and thought it meant it was all back to normal.  These are people with limited access to internet ( many rural areas with spotty cell coverage too)

[Innisfree]

39 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I think it is fine to not trust politicians (although a lot of mask haters believe anything a certain politician says) but there is a big leap between not trusing politicians and not trusting science. In the age of the internet there is almost no excuse for not just looking up the info yourself, if you don't believe what the media/politicians say. 

 

Agreeing.

It sounds like a distrust, not just of politicians, but of established authority in general.

Not sure what we do about that.

ETA that the "certain politician" seems to have gained credibility with that crowd partly because he set himself up as the one confronting and rebelling against the establishment.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Innisfree

[TravelingChris]

4 hours ago, sassenach said:

Huh. All the engineers in my life (and I have more than the average bear, I think) are prolific readers. 
 

The loudest people on FB are my anti-vax homeschool mom friends, unfortunately. The ones that sell oils and rely on homeopathy for all their needs. One in particular can turn absolutely anything into a government conspiracy. The national coin shortage is us moving to an all-digital, global currency so they can track all of our spending, by the way. 
 

ETA: I didn’t finish my thought. All these women are huge readers, so I don’t know if that’s the issue. I think it’s more that their information source is 100% these conspiracy loops. I also think (getting CC here) that there’s almost some level of spiritual warfare involved here. Like, they are steeped in deception and can’t dig themselves out of that way of thinking. I haven’t completely fleshed out those thoughts but it’s something I’ve been pondering recently. Like one mom in particular hands out homeopathic medical advice left and right online like she’s some sage practitioner. But IRL the health of both herself and her kids has always been a disaster. She’s not anyone I would ever go to for health advice based on actually observing her family. But she’s also really kind and loving and I actually like her a lot. It’s all hard to reconcile. 

All three I know are retired homeschooling moms.  One has alienated at least one of her kids with her views' anti vacc, Young Living essential oils, ant mask, etc.  Another one is married to an engineer, has a biology degree and thinks masks are liberals gone wild and I am not sure of her vaccine views. The third is also always posting discredited doctors, etc but she is very high risk herself as are most of her kids.  She is anti madk and I think any vacc but she really needs the vaccines like pneumonia vaccine etc because of her bad asthma and also other issues that affect breathing.  The three commonalities between the three are very back and white thinking

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

Agreeing.

It sounds like a distrust, not just of politicians, but of established authority in general.

Not sure what we do about that.

I have been thinking about this word a lot lately.  There are a lot of scofflaws around - on both end of the political spectrum.

scoff·law

/ˈskôflô/

 

 

noun

informal•North American

noun: scofflaw; plural noun: scofflaws

1. a person who flouts the law, especially by failing to comply with a law that is difficult to enforce effectively.

[TravelingChris]

49 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I think it is fine to not trust politicians (although a lot of mask haters believe anything a certain politician says) but there is a big leap between not trusing politicians and not trusting science. In the age of the internet there is almost no excuse for not just looking up the info yourself, if you don't believe what the media/politicians say. 

 

Part of the problem is the so called science. Lile yes to hydroxychloroquine then no and no again yes.  Nontoxic masks then yes.  You get it fro surfaces and no you don't.

The CDC and some other science groups have been part of the problem 

[Innisfree]

23 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Part of the problem is the so called science. Lile yes to hydroxychloroquine then no and no again yes.  Nontoxic masks then yes.  You get it fro surfaces and no you don't.

The CDC and some other science groups have been part of the problem 

So, I think a big part of this (and I think you know this, but the general public may not) is that we're watching science as it happens. It isn't all clear and settled yet, but because of the urgency, we're seeing bits and pieces of the process which ordinarily play out slowly through time, and lots of journal articles, and conferences, before the public is really aware of the issue at all. Consensus doesn't happen right away. Studies from different places contribute to an understanding which slowly emerges,  but that's just how the process works. There's often contradictory information along the way.

The CDC is another issue. I think politics are entering into its pronouncements in a way which is extremely destructive, precisely because the trust people place in institutions is limited and fragile. It's bad enough having science emerge slowly and contradictorily (and normally, but at a time of importance and high visibility), without having the governmental body responsible for public health pronouncements having to trim their sails to the political winds.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Innisfree

[Happy2BaMom]

21 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Part of the problem is the so called science. Lile yes to hydroxychloroquine then no and no again yes.  Nontoxic masks then yes.  You get it fro surfaces and no you don't.

The CDC and some other science groups have been part of the problem 

“Science” never said yes to hydroxychloroquine. A few specific scientists made some waves when they came out promoting this miracle cure  to the media, but many other scientists came out within a few days urging caution and questioning that conclusion. 
With a brand new virus, it takes time to sort out how exactly it transmits, how it works in the body, what treatments actually prove effective (or not). It’s not realistic to expect that everything will be known by everyone up front. And some individual scientists will be foolish in their statements, which is why it’s so important to wait for a consensus to be able to form. 

[Shoeless]

7 hours ago, Kanin said:

Seriously?!?! I'd have to move.

 

We do plan to move, far, far away from here. I always knew that people here were a little "quirky" with some of their beliefs, but I can't do this anymore.  The homeschool families here are full of conspiracy theorists promoting dangerous ideas, (the Fauci one and then there's one where they say that George Floyd was murdered by the Democratic party to make Trump look bad OR Mr. Floyd isn't actually dead, but he's in witness protection and the whole thing was staged to make Trump look bad).  There are suddenly a lot of Q Anon people here. 

It's bad enough that I'm moving toward supporting homeschool regulations, and seriously considering states with high levels of regulation, because maybe people won't be quite so nuts there?  Maybe? 

Like, it's bad here, which is a shame.  There are about 10 or 12 small things that I really, really love about living here, but handling of the pandemic takes all those tiny things I like and makes them meaningless. 

[Scarlett]

My dss23’s MIL posted this. Her comment said ‘this is why the numbers are rising.’  Most of you probably immediately realized this was doctored up to appear like it is discussing the test when it is actually discussing the antibody test. I and a couple more people pointed this out. She took it down. 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Scarlett

[Shoeless]

7 hours ago, sassenach said:

Huh. All the engineers in my life (and I have more than the average bear, I think) are prolific readers. 
 

The loudest people on FB are my anti-vax homeschool mom friends, unfortunately. The ones that sell oils and rely on homeopathy for all their needs. One in particular can turn absolutely anything into a government conspiracy. The national coin shortage is us moving to an all-digital, global currency so they can track all of our spending, by the way. 
 

ETA: I didn’t finish my thought. All these women are huge readers, so I don’t know if that’s the issue. I think it’s more that their information source is 100% these conspiracy loops. I also think (getting CC here) that there’s almost some level of spiritual warfare involved here. Like, they are steeped in deception and can’t dig themselves out of that way of thinking. I haven’t completely fleshed out those thoughts but it’s something I’ve been pondering recently. Like one mom in particular hands out homeopathic medical advice left and right online like she’s some sage practitioner. But IRL the health of both herself and her kids has always been a disaster. She’s not anyone I would ever go to for health advice based on actually observing her family. But she’s also really kind and loving and I actually like her a lot. It’s all hard to reconcile. 

 

 

The loudest people in my fb feed (until I unfriended and blocked them) were the homeschool moms.  They were all into homeopathy, anti-vaxx, CBD oil, Plandemic, conspiracy theories, home births, gun rights, anti-big businesses, ant-medicine and "Big Pharma".  They grow and can all their own food, make their own soaps and essential oils, and drink unpasteurized milk and eat unpasteurized cheese. They also all LOVE Acellus for homeschooling, which by default makes me super suspicious of Acellus. 

This type of thinking has intensified over the last few years. When I first met these women, they were kinda kooky but still seemed somewhat grounded.  It feels like there has been a concerted effort by many of them to distance themselves from "regular" society over the last few years. Many of them have never left the state, and a few have never been out of this county.  

 

 

[Wheres Toto]

2 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

 

The loudest people in my fb feed (until I unfriended and blocked them) were the homeschool moms.  They were all into homeopathy, anti-vaxx, CBD oil, Plandemic, conspiracy theories, home births, gun rights, anti-big businesses, ant-medicine and "Big Pharma".  They grow and can all their own food, make their own soaps and essential oils, and drink unpasteurized milk and eat unpasteurized cheese. They also all LOVE Acellus for homeschooling, which by default makes me super suspicious of Acellus. 

This type of thinking has intensified over the last few years. When I first met these women, they were kinda kooky but still seemed somewhat grounded.  It feels like there has been a concerted effort by many of them to distance themselves from "regular" society over the last few years. Many of them have never left the state, and a few have never been out of this county.  

 

 

I'm surprised people who are that "crunchy" would be so all over an online option for homeschooling.  I would expect more living books from that crowd.  

[Shoeless]

2 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

I'm surprised people who are that "crunchy" would be so all over an online option for homeschooling.  I would expect more living books from that crowd.  

 

Right?  I can't figure out why online school from this provider is ok, but every other form of "Big Brother" peering into their lives is not. It makes me very wary of the provider since it has such enthusiastic support of this crowd.