Toddler and going to bed

[DawnM]

Thank you to those of you who stuck to the question and were helpful.

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by DawnM

[Rosie_0801]

That's how things were at my place when my kids were small. There were some hills not worth dying on. 

I know nothing about adoption issues, so maybe there is an excellent reason for putting him on a schedule, but from the lad's point of view, his requirements seem reasonable. He's telling you what he needs and objecting when his needs are not met. I'm not a huge believer in tantrums, though. Meltdowns I believe in, most definitely. 

[J-rap]

I didn't see your other thread(s) about this...  Perhaps I should search a little so I can know his background.  A couple of our children had a very, very difficult time falling asleep.  They're both young adults now, but it turns out they are both on the highly sensitive spectrum...  Something we knew nothing about when they were babies and toddlers.  I don't know if, realizing what we know about them now, we could have done it any differently, but it does help us understand.  Helping them relax was a huge part of it though, as was a pretty clear routine/time.  My dh would also rub their backs every night as they fell asleep.  I think eventually, it all became routine enough -- even learning to relax -- so that they could do it on their own.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by J-rap

[PeterPan]

Well if the mother was that night owl and the kid is, maybe his melatonin is off. I would get him out in the sunshine each day, because sunshine can help. I wouldn't hesitate to give him a chamomile tincture to help his body wind down. Calm Child is what I used with my kids. And yes to crawling in with him and rubbing his back, etc. till he's asleep.

 

[DawnM]

13 minutes ago, J-rap said:

I didn't see your other thread(s) about this...  Perhaps I should search a little so I can know his background.  A couple of our children had a very, very difficult time falling asleep.  They're both young adults now, but it turns out they are both on the highly sensitive spectrum...  Something we knew nothing about when they were babies and toddlers.  I don't know if, realizing what we know about them now, we could have done it any differently, but it does help us understand.  Helping them relax was a huge part of it though, as was a pretty clear routine/time.  My dh would also rub their backs every night as they fell asleep.  I think eventually, it all became routine enough -- even learning to relax -- so that they could do it on their own.

 

 

 

He ends up screaming and crying for only a little while, and then zonks HARD.   I wonder if maybe we just have to put up with it for the short term.  For nap time, I have rocked him and he eventually falls asleep (doesn't take too long really) and for bedtime, we have brought him in with us until he falls asleep, and then moved him.

He is sleeping on a mattress on the floor of our bedroom right now.

He has only been with us a week, so maybe I am just not giving things enough time.

[DawnM]

Just now, PeterPan said:

Well if the mother was that night owl and the kid is, maybe his melatonin is off. I would get him out in the sunshine each day, because sunshine can help. I wouldn't hesitate to give him a chamomile tincture to help his body wind down. Calm Child is what I used with my kids. And yes to crawling in with him and rubbing his back, etc. till he's asleep.

 

 

He does get outside every day to play.  

Thanks

[PeterPan]

36 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I know nothing about adoption issues, so maybe there is an excellent reason for putting him on a schedule, but from the lad's point of view, his requirements seem reasonable. He's telling you what he needs and objecting when his needs are not met. I'm not a huge believer in tantrums, though. Meltdowns I believe in, most definitely. 

I'm with you that he's probably showing chemistry. However there's also sort of a safety issue, because DawnM is probably wanting sleep and wanting to know the kid is not wandering or in danger. So there's a balance. 

I'm not sure what I'd do in hindsight. I mean, I know *now* why my ds didn't go to sleep (because we've run genetics), but that doesn't make it any easier. We got his sleep routine about 50% better with 5HTP because that improved his melatonin levels. But the rest of the sleep only improved recently when we added an anxiety med. THAT is magic. 

So the chamomile is a middle of the road, might help a little option. We used it. Now I have ds taking a chamomile capsule each night when he takes his 5HTP. Just helps wind all that down. He used to RUN LAPS in my house being unable to wind his body down. And tired Mom can't go to bed if the kid is that pert and alert, lol.

The other thing we've done that is really perverse or counterintuitive but worked here is to UP HIS MENTAL STIMULATION. So if he's that doggone awake, do school work. Like whatever is appropriate to the age. Preschool MFW cards, matching. Not just fun, actual WORK. Wear that brain out. Something that is the equivalent of mental calculus for him. If hearing initial sounds is hard or speaking is hard, so that. Something that uses his brain. 

My theory has been that his brain is so bright it just has excess energy to use up. So if he's bolt awake, we're going to use that brain energy. And it actually works. If we work HARD with his brain for about 30 minutes, his brain will calm down. So it's counterintuitive, but it works here and isn't harmful. Worse case is it's just good pairing, relationship building.

[PeterPan]

6 minutes ago, DawnM said:

He ends up screaming and crying for only a little while, and then zonks HARD.   I wonder if maybe we just have to put up with it for the short term.  For nap time, I have rocked him and he eventually falls asleep (doesn't take too long really) and for bedtime, we have brought him in with us until he falls asleep, and then moved him.

Oh poor boy! Have you thought about doing some body massage and talking with him about how his body feels, getting him to body scan? It sounds like he's really wound up by the time he gets there, like already overtired. 

[PeterPan]

5 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

He does get outside every day to play.  

Thanks

The glories of good weather. Our weather here alternates every day.

Hold it, did he also have a time change? Was it 2-3 hours? Oh my, that's probably part of it too. At least that part should improve in another week.

[DawnM]

4 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

The glories of good weather. Our weather here alternates every day.

Hold it, did he also have a time change? Was it 2-3 hours? Oh my, that's probably part of it too. At least that part should improve in another week.

 

Yeah, 3 hours.  We have been slowly moving to our time, we have had him go to bed a little earlier each couple of days.

[Guest]

Can you set the cues up differently? Like don’t say, “It’s time for bed!” Instead say, “It’s storytime...It’s music time...it’s quiet time now...” Sometimes a simple re-frame can help a lot.

Take my advice with a grain of salt, though...even with my not-traumatized biological children, I had one whose bedtime routine was like an episode of Survivor.

[DawnM]

I guess maybe I am just not remembering bedtime being that big of a deal when my older kids were toddlers, but I may be remembering wrong!

[PeterPan]

2 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

Yeah, 3 hours.  We have been slowly moving to our time, we have had him go to bed a little earlier each couple of days.

So with my ds, I've found that when I administer the 5HTP + chamomile, there's a timeline (how much time till it kicks in, when he wakes up, etc.). 

I think you can get melatonin in a *dropper* at the grocery store. I think using melatonin with changing time of going to sleep is evidence based for kids. I think as long as you use just a *drop* with someone so small, a very small amount, it would be fine. The gummies, etc. are really high dose, way beyond biologic levels. But if you just wanted a tiny amount to shift his sleep, that could be an option. 

https://www.amazon.com/Natrol-Melatonin-Liquid-Tincture-Fluid/dp/B07DW9LJG3/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3JUMU1EEQGOY2&dchild=1&keywords=liquid+melatonin&qid=1587987557&sprefix=liquid+mela%2Caps%2C160&sr=8-5  So this is 4 droppers full for 1mg and I'm saying like 1/2 of one dropper. Very very small amount. Might take the edge off, wouldn't leave him groggy. If he gets grouchy with it or wets the bed more or something, then you know it's a chemistry issue. But even my ds with significant methylation issues can take it one night on occasion and not have a problem. Works pretty well. 

[fairfarmhand]

3 minutes ago, Quill said:

 

Take my advice with a grain of salt, though...even with my not-traumatized biological children, I had one whose bedtime routine was like an episode of Survivor.

I was going to say this. Bedtime was like this with my oldest for awhile and she was not traumatized. Now the rest of us were definitely traumatized by the lack of sleep and the screaming.

[PeterPan]

1 minute ago, DawnM said:

I guess maybe I am just not remembering bedtime being that big of a deal when my older kids were toddlers, but I may be remembering wrong!

Kinda like childbirth LOL

Bedtime is ds' most dysregulated time, the time when we have the most behaviors. And it's not just the screaming you want to stop but that you want the *habit* or the sense that he can go to sleep quietly and that everything is ok. So that's why I would consider using something, because I think that habit or association is a big deal.

[sweet2ndchance]

Just saying, some of my kids had given up naps by 2 years old but they still had quiet time every day. A week is definitely not enough time for a toddler to settle into a new environment, a new routine, a time change, new guardians, not to mention process trauma... good grief!

In this situation I would suggest a gentle routine without use of the word that sets him off like someone mentioned above. It can take a month or more to set new habits in place when children are not traumatized. It can take longer when they are also processing trauma. Definitely give the new routines and other changes a good month or two to become the new normal for him.

[almondbutterandjelly]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

I guess maybe I am just not remembering bedtime being that big of a deal when my older kids were toddlers, but I may be remembering wrong!

Ha ha I was going to say, don't all toddlers do this?  I have very distinct memories of my toddler screaming "I do not need a nap!" at the top of her lungs and sobbing.  Yes, my dear, you obviously do.

[fairfarmhand]

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

Of my 4 kids, only one of them was bedtime resistant to that degree. My oldest seemed almost to need the release of screaming to wind down at the end of the day. It was SO frustrating! 
 

If the word bed triggers him so much, I’d stop using it and would just gradually wind the evening down at bedtime.

eta: I have no idea why I quoted myself.
 

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by fairfarmhand

[hippiemamato3]

Why can't you do a warm bath every night? If it works, do it! Does he still nap? If so, eliminate them. Also, if he's only been with you for a week - he's grieving. He misses his mom. Everything is strange and different. Children of trauma don't find bedtime safe. It's one more scary thing in their day that isn't what they are used to. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by hippiemamato3

[maize]

I've never had a toddler who would go to bed alone, they've all needed to snuggle--in my bed or theirs.

I've watched other people's kids fall asleep alone in a crib, but not mine; even newborn nurses at the hospital have complained to me about my babies not sleeping unless they were being held. I figure some kids are just like that.

Hope you guys find a routine that works for everyone soon!

[Scarlett]

26 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

Why can't you do a warm bath every night? If it works, do it! Does he still nap? If so, eliminate them. Also, if he's only been with you for a week - he's grieving. He misses his mom. Everything is strange and different. Children of trauma don't find bedtime safe. It's one more scary thing in their day that isn't what they are used to. 

I was going to say the same thing about baths.  My son got a bath every single night even if it was not  a long play bath.

i think it will just take time Dawn for him to settle in.  A week is not very long at all. I think it is excellent that he is sleeping hard once he zonks out.  I wouldn’t necessarily stop the naps if he is sleeping a decent amount once he goes down for the night.  
 

And the mattress in your room is a good idea too.  I am so impressed that you and your husband have taken this child.  I don’t think you are as old as me,  but I know you have adult children, so starting all over again is a lot of work.  

 

[catz]

I don't know. My kids were 3-4 until we had solid bedtime protocals that worked well consistently.  It's so new, he's in a new place with a time change, etc.  It sounds like you are doing a lot of good things.  I just remember being exhausted and DONE that time of day myself so I think that makes it doubly hard to get through it when you just want him to crash.   It helped me just to let that go for a bit and making sure when I had some alone time when he was sleeping I'd not necessarily choose to be productive.  I would maybe start a little earlier each day because it does sound like he is over tired.  The consistent night time bath was helpful here for a reset too.  Even if it were quick without much actual cleaning involved.  I'd consider it a win that he is sleeping well once he gets there.  ❤️  

ETA - I also had one that had given up naps by age 2, so that may be a transition and something to play with as well.  Or at least keep it to a reasonable time if he'll sleep for hours during the day.

Edited April 27, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[SanDiegoMom]

Two out of my three kids were easy-ish -- though one had anxiety and I OFTEN had to lay on his floor til he fell asleep, all the way up to like 10 or 11 years old.  My other (adhd) kid dropped her naps at 2 and screamed for an hour every night before crashing.  Then as she got older she stayed in bed but stayed awake for 2 hours usually.  I would have been giving her melatonin at that point if I had known.

For that kid, if staying in her room and rubbing her back worked, I would totally have called it a success. But it didn't matter what I did, nothing worked.  She just couldn't calm her brain. 

One week is NOT very long! 

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

When we say the word bed he screams.  No bed, no, no, no bed!  But it is in a toddler tantrum way, not a "I associate this with trauma" way.  There was no physical abuse, it was neglect, unsanitary conditions, and substance abuse.  

Any chance parent(s) was unresponsive at times due to the substance abuse? I wonder if this little guy doesn't know the difference between passed out from substance abuse and asleep and is either worried you won't respond to him if he wakes, or he's afraid he'll be unresponsive if he goes to sleep. Regarding the latter, it may not sound like something a 2.5 could process, but I had a kiddo that could process like that at that age. I think he was about 2 y.o. when he started identifying things like bugs as dead when he found them on the ground. I have no idea how he knew. I know you said he's a little delayed, but that might be his ability to express it that is delayed, not what he understands nonverbally. 

Anyway, just tossing that out in case there are some picture books or something that would help you reassure him that you will respond if he wakes. 

[Jaybee]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

I guess maybe I am just not remembering bedtime being that big of a deal when my older kids were toddlers, but I may be remembering wrong!

It's possible he is pretty hypervigilent. Even if he didn't suffer physical abuse, he has been through major trauma with all the changes. (Even with good, healthier changes.) I wish I had understood that better, along with its long-term effects, when we brought home our son. And really, a week is not long at all, even if he hadn't changed caregivers, etc. It sometimes takes me about that long or more to adjust to only an hours' time change.

ETA: Agreeing that I would not cut out his naptimes. It seems not that he is not tired enough, but simply that he cannot wind down alone. His being overtired would probably make that worse. Routine is your friend, as well. He needs to know what to expect each day.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Jaybee

[hippiemamato3]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

I guess maybe I am just not remembering bedtime being that big of a deal when my older kids were toddlers, but I may be remembering wrong!

This isn't your child though, and he hasn't experienced the security of a 'normal' childhood thus far. 

[HS Mom in NC]

What kind of training have you had about attachment and transition issues? When we were certified as fosterparents in AZ in 2004-2005 the training through the state was shockingly low quality. People should be outraged at the inadequate resources provided by my state fostercare system, at least at that time.  I have no idea what it's like now in each state.  Our private international adoption agency in 2005-2006 was very high quality.  If you're not getting good information from your agency you'll need to supplement it for yourself yesterday.

All children changing families experience trauma. Not to discourage you, but to help you recalibrate, it's not unusual for children transitioning from one home to another to experience up to 10 years of severe sleep issues.  That's what we were told by the licensed attachment therapist who ran our international adoption agency where she had worked for decades and had adopted a child 30+ years before. In the first parenting classes we took we were told straight out that if we were not willing to deal with that, we were not considered good candidates for adoptive parenting. Granted, most kids don't have serious sleep issues for more than a year or two, but there are kids who do. We don't tell people to prepare for the best case scenario, we tell them to prepare for the worst because that's reality for some.  Her own child had severe sleep issues for the full 10 years, so it wasn't theory to her. (She also had 3 or 4 bio kids, so she had experienced  the range of normal.) These are children with no in utero drug exposure and immediate placement at birth into the best fostercare system in the world-S. Korea's, then placement in a permanent home. No bouncing around like most US foster kids.

 My youngest who came to us at 7 months old couldn't sleep for more than an hour and a half at a stretch for a solid 3 months,  had night terrors for about 6 months, and didn't start sleeping through the night until she was about 2.5. That's all well within the normal range, and frankly on the easier side,  of a child going into a new home.

When children transition to a new family they become emotional newborns and it takes a long time for them to catch up.  Standard policy advice from the attachment therapist was to put them back on a bottle, even if they're older toddlers.  The new caregivers provide immediate comfort just like they would a newborn. Only mom and dad meet basic needs for a minimum of 6 weeks to make it clear to the child who the caregivers are. No crying it out.  No diaper changes or feedings by Grandma.

Then there will be the grieving the loss of the previous caregiver stage that has its own set of behavior issues if the child is with you long term.  That can cause a second round of sleep issues or it can be part of the first.  It was part of the first for us.

The other standard advice is to make as many of the changes you plan to make all at once when possible. (Sleep isn't always possible other than a bedtime.)  Transitions like placement into a new home traumatize children and the Karyn Pervis research indicates it's long term to some children.  They're seeing ongoing biomarkers of stress in adopted children years after adoption into the most stable and loving homes. Read her website, books and attend an Empowered to Connect seminar and its related books. 

If there was substance abuse going on, there's no way to know if there was abuse of some kind at some point.  Substance abusers are not know for their accurate perceptions of situations, and not all physical abuse results in long term physical scars.  The only way physical abuse is found is by a rational 3rd party close enough to observe it, and odds are not good this child had that in his life to confirm lack of abuse. In most substance abuse cases there are other people in and out of the home whether a parent is prostituting themselves for drugs (steady income is not the norm for longer term substance abusers) and/or a parent is partying with other substance abusers. Any child in the home is at high risk for being exposed to someone who would physically abuse them over normal child behaviors: the parent and the people the parent allows in the home.  There isn't a difference in "the abuse way" and "normal toddler way" because each child is different and what it looks like in one kid is different than in another.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Homeschool Mom in AZ

[mumto2]

As the mom of a child who gave up naps by one it might be easier on all to just have a quiet time where he needs to stay on his bed with his stuffed friends and play quietly........sometimes sleep happens sometimes it doesn’t.   Time change, lifestyle change, everything change.....the little one has a whole lot of adjustments to make.   Because of bonding I would start the routine and just let him fall asleep in your bed and move him.  It probably makes him feel very secure.  Eventually you can read etc in his bed and let him fall asleep there.

[Arctic Bunny]

I distinctly remember oldest DS(1) at 2yo, because just before that was when youngest DS(2) was born. Having a newborn in one room, getting 1DS settled in the other. I don’t know if I lasted a whole month before I moved the crib into 1DS’s room so I could be with them both at the same time. At that time 1DS still had his soother nearby at night, I was most definitely still laying down beside him for a bit, and was sitting inside the room for a long time after that.

A week doesn’t seem like very long for your little guy to adjust. We moved when oldest was 3.5, youngest 1.5, and bedtimes definitely took longer. Then we moved again 8 months later, and there were more adjustments. Sometime between ages 4/2 and 6/4 was when I distinctly remember thinking “This is the first time since 2004 that I have slept through the night for more than 1 night in a row.” Even when they were 6 & 4, and we moved again, I went back to laying down with youngest for a bit, and making noise in the kitchen, etc, instead of going straight down to the basement to watch a show.

[BusyMom5]

My kids stop naps by 18 months- every single one of them!  If my 2.5 year old falls asleep in the car I don't even attempt to put her to sleep until 10.  Normally our day is up about 7, play all day, eat at 6, bath at 7, stories at 8.  I do lay down with her in her bed and she falls asleep by 9.  Keep a routine of 'times'  and I agree with a PP who said to rename it something besides bedtime 😉  

[barnwife]

All I can offer is what I think I would do.
First, I'd avoid using the word bed, if possible. You could say "time to sleep" or something instead of "time for bed." Second, I would make a routine and stick to it as much as possible. I'd be like a public school teacher and post pictures of each step to refer to. I would do this for the whole day. The whole day might be overwhelming to look at, so maybe I'd do morning, afternoon, and evening, switching out at the appropriate time. I'd probably have this posted on the fridge. Given everything that's changed for him, he might like seeing that certain things happen every day.

I would enforce a quiet time every afternoon. I may or may not make his quiet time spot his bed. It depends on what your other options are. We have one corner of our living room that is basically a ton of blankets and pillows. Our kids love hanging out there and reading and stuff. But a bed certainly works. I'd post a "quiet time rules" sign (with pictures obviously) right there. I'd assume I'd have to put a lot of effort into teaching this/enforcing this at first

And at night, I'd have that routine posted somewhere in the bedroom. I would absolutely snuggle this little one to sleep for now. He has had so much upheaval, this seems like a small thing (even though it probably is hard to you, going back to this stage).  I'd work toward being able to snuggle less and less, but I'd expect that to take at least a month. I wouldn't even attempt to break the snuggle habit for at least 2 more weeks. 

A week seems long to you, but not to this tiny toddler! Also, remember that there is nothing inherently wrong with going to bed late and getting up late. It's just different. It's fine to want to adjust his schedule, but with all the changes, I would be thinking in terms of months for this, not days/a week.

You have undertaken something huge. Remember to give this little guy and yourselves lots of grace!


 

[katilac]

As others have noted, I would not assume there was no physical abuse just because I wasn't aware of it and it wasn't noted in his file. 

I'd certainly try different phrasing if  'bed' sets him screaming. Part of it could be as simple as bed being the place he was sent to be punished, even if that only meant time-out. Few of us would tell a toddler to go sit in the corner and wait, bc that has such strong connotations with punishment, but we might tell them to sit on the step while we move a hot pan (but they equate 'step' with sitting on the naughty step) or go to bed to get some sleep (but they equate 'bed' with the same type of punishment). 

Mostly, a toddler screaming and crying for a bit before zonking out hard doesn't even register on my radar. It is SO common. My kids never really got over their sleep issues, they just got old enough that they didn't bother me with them, lol. If a warm bath had helped, NOTHING would have prevented that from happening. I would have strolled past the gates of hell to get to the tub, flipping off Satan as I went. I would have had dinner earlier or later or, heck, not at all - we would have shoveled in bowls of cereal in the bathroom if it got those kids to sleep. If warm baths help, start with that as the one thing that WILL happen every night, and build the rest of the evening around it. 

Have you tried no electronics in the evening, like past supper time? I wouldn't make a declaration of 'no electronics past 6!' or anything, I'd just have other activities at the ready and be prepared to play with him and amuse him the first few evenings, so you can see if it helps. 

Is he getting some hard exercise in the late afternoon to early evening? Can you safely put up a small pool? It's not enough, imo, to get some outdoor play every day. He should be outdoors a LOT, and not just playing quietly but running and jumping and sweating. He might need encouragement and modeling (and a playmate, which might be you or dh). If you can time some good sweaty exercise or swimming right before an evening bath, that might make a tremendous difference. 

Honestly, it sounds like he has made an amazing adjustment as far as bedtime is concerned! 

[mommyoffive]

Wow, it sounds like he has a lot probably going on right now.  I haven't adopted so I don't have any information on that.  But with him being delayed, time change, a new family, loss, neglected, and just being 2 years old is a ton to make this a problem.    Bed time was never easy with my kids.  Most of them wanted someone to hold or snuggle them and dh and I were fine with that.  I did spend time trying to sleep train babies or toddlers and I just wasn't into it.  They end up sleeping fine latter. 

I would give him so much more time.  For me it was always as soon as I got one thing figured out then they started something new. 

Have your routine.

Let him play outside a lot each day.  It can take awhile to adjust to a new sleep schedule and a time change on top of that. 

If laying with him works that is what I would do.  

[ktgrok]

I can give a tip that will get him not falling asleep in your bed (hopefully) and yet not cause the screaming..it's one that worked with some of my kids. 

Instead of going to bed at a particular time, they got "snuggle time" on the couch with a documentary on, at a certain time. I'd put on some nature documentary - something just interesting enough to keep them still and resting on the couch, but not so interesting they tried to stay awake to watch it. They could lay on the couch, with a blanket if they wanted, or not, near me. Or in my lap. And we watched, and they would fall asleep. 

Now that they are older we have documentary time before bed every night, but they then get up and go to their room to fall asleep. The just turned 3 yr old still often falls asleep during the documentary. 

Getting to stay up to watch TV doesn't feel as threatening as "go to bed", but gets them in the habit of winding down and falling asleep around the same time every night. And avoids any potential adoption issues regarding the child in your bed (I have no issues with children in parents beds but I know that sometimes CPS/Adoption agencies have a different view). 

[ktgrok]

Oh, and have you tried laying down with him in his bed, rather than him in yours? That will likely go over better with the adoption folks, I'd thin (or whomever) and serve the same purpose perhaps. 

I still lay with my 3 yr old  in her bed each night, if she doesn't fall asleep watching a documentary with us first. 

[Elizabeth86]

6 hours ago, maize said:

I've never had a toddler who would go to bed alone, they've all needed to snuggle--in my bed or theirs.

I've watched other people's kids fall asleep alone in a crib, but not mine; even newborn nurses at the hospital have complained to me about my babies not sleeping unless they were being held. I figure some kids are just like that.

Hope you guys find a routine that works for everyone soon!

Haha same here mostly . Our first 3 never fell asleep without me.  Our 4th (2 year old not napping) will occasionally pass out in the evening.  It freaked dh and me out at first.  We had no idea our kids could just fall asleep.  She doesn't do it much really though.  I still like down with all my kids at night.  They will want me to leave then alone soon enough. 😭 

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, Elizabeth86 said:

Haha same here mostly . Our first 3 never fell asleep without me.  Our 4th (2 year old not napping) will occasionally pass out in the evening.  It freaked dh and me out at first.  We had no idea our kids could just fall asleep.  She doesn't do it much really though.  I still like down with all my kids at night.  They will want me to leave then alone soon enough. 😭 

Prepare yourself.  No seriously, I'm with you that a need that is met is a need that goes away (paired with healthy boundaries). I'm not sure what went wrong with these people...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCRDF-jxjS0

[Rosie_0801]

My 13 year old still falls asleep in my bed when she's at my place. For the first few nights, it's not unusual, when I try to send her to her own bed after a few hours, for her to grab me and refuse to let go. For her to want to sleep in her own bed for the entire night, she has to have been here for about 5 days, (which happens about 5 times a year) but then she's close to having to go back, so it only lasts one night.

 

Snoring partners aside, most of us don't want to sleep alone either.

[DawnM]

Today DH sat in the recliner rocking and the toddler was on his toddler mattress at his feet.  It seemed to work and he went to sleep.  He sleeps for 2 hour naps, so I think he does need them.  

Other than sleep, he is a delight.  He is sweet and likes to laugh, and is an overall mellow kid who fits in very well with our family.

[DawnM]

How did he go to sleep at his mom's house?  She just let him get so tired he passed out on the sofa or floor and then she would carry him to her bed when she was ready to go to bed, or she would sleep on the sofa with him.

Foster care (10 months of his 2.5 year old life) he slept in a bedroom with another little boy, both of them in separate cribs, but without an adult in there.  

[Rosie_0801]

8 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Today DH sat in the recliner rocking and the toddler was on his toddler mattress at his feet.  It seemed to work and he went to sleep.  He sleeps for 2 hour naps, so I think he does need them.  

Other than sleep, he is a delight.  He is sweet and likes to laugh, and is an overall mellow kid who fits in very well with our family.

 

Don't be thinking a cheery demeanour is evidence of a *lack* of trauma. I know you're a school counsellor, so I assume you know about trauma, but hoo boy, what they show to the world and what goes on behind the scenes can be verrrry different. To be honest, I'd take complaints at bed time as a positive, since that is clearly not a fawning response.

[hippiemamato3]

1 minute ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Don't be thinking a cheery demeanour is evidence of a *lack* of trauma. I know you're a school counsellor, so I assume you know about trauma, but hoo boy, what they show to the world and what goes on behind the scenes can be verrrry different. To be honest, I'd take complaints at bed time as a positive, since that is clearly not a fawning response.

AND it doesn't end. It can show up again later, and it can be devastating. 

[Paige]

My vote is that a week is way too soon to push sleeping alone. He's had a huge change and I'd err on giving him more comfort. I'd rock him to sleep, walk him to sleep, lay next to him, or whatever, and then try to sneak out if possible. You could try a pack n play or mattress in your room for a little bit too. 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Paige

[DawnM]

14 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Don't be thinking a cheery demeanour is evidence of a *lack* of trauma. I know you're a school counsellor, so I assume you know about trauma, but hoo boy, what they show to the world and what goes on behind the scenes can be verrrry different. To be honest, I'd take complaints at bed time as a positive, since that is clearly not a fawning response.

 

I didn't say that.  I stated quite clearly that I know there is trauma.  

[DawnM]

10 minutes ago, Paige said:

My vote is that a week is way too soon to push sleeping alone. He's had a huge change and I'd err on giving him more comfort. I'd rock him to sleep, walk him to sleep, lay next to him, or whatever, and then try to sneak out if possible. You could try a pack n play or mattress in your room for a little bit too. 

He isn't sleeping alone, he is on a mattress in our room.  He hasn't been alone yet.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

Prepare yourself.  No seriously, I'm with you that a need that is met is a need that goes away (paired with healthy boundaries). I'm not sure what went wrong with these people...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCRDF-jxjS0

Disturbing

[PeterPan]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Disturbing

You're telling me! I thought TLC used to be sort of educational or worthwhile. I hadn't watched it in a while and got on to watch some nice medical mysteries show and all the commercials were for these FREAKS. I'm like seriously, what has TLC come to??? I mean, I knew they went downhill, but this was too much. Even the commercials needed brain bleach.

Edited April 28, 2020 by PeterPan

[Rosie_0801]

15 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

I didn't say that.  I stated quite clearly that I know there is trauma.  

 

I know you said that.

[Ausmumof3]

I’d try watching some boring tv or a read aloud in the bed for a bit.  I know you probably already know this but watch for sleepY signs earlier because it sounds like maybe overtired becomes wired?  You could also try some music or something in the room.

i still sit with my 8 year old while he falls asleep though so I’m probably not the best person to give advice.  I just read a book in my phone or play a game for a bit.

[ktgrok]

Oh a friend shared that her kids fall asleep in minutes everytime she puts on Bob Ross reruns on PBS, lol. It's like magic. For me, that is "How It's Made", that show makes me comatose like nothing else.