What punishments or advice would you give in this situation (teen son) . UPDATE in first post

[Splash1]

I had a child that at about this time of year his senior year we didn't know if he would pass or not to graduate.  I contacted his teachers and asked for exactly what he needed to do to pass their class so he could graduate.  They were very responsive and told us exactly what  assignments, etc needed to be turned in and how many points needed to pass.  He had gotten it into his head there were too many assignments due and there was no way he could accomplish it all (multiple challenges).  Having them just assign him the essentials made the list more doable and talking to the teachers made them part of our team. I gave my son the list  and told him it was up to him but that HS diploma was important and he'd regret not finishing.  He did the work required (teachers were kind and worked with us) and we found out that he passed at 3pm on day grades were do that he would graduate with 2 extra points.  He was honestly a disaster the last semester of high school so it was a huge accomplishment that he passed those two classes.   Good luck.  No wisdom here just understand how parents are feeling right now.

[LucyStoner]

A few thoughts.  

1. I’d offer support and scaffolding to help him pass the classes if that is what he wanted.  I would not be willing to force him- he has to want to do it.  I would take the time to make him aware of all of the options.  If he’s used to getting As he may underestimate the options that might be available to him to help him pass because he’s never had to ask for modifications or a breakdown of the bare minimum he needs to do pass.  

2. I’d be open to trade school for sure.  He can always go to college later if he wants.  The worst thing for unmotivated students is to force them to start college and have them use up college money or aid eligibility when they are going to flunk out or drop out.  

3. Second opinion on the depression might be in order.  

4. The parents can choose to not pay for the 1/2 of car expenses they are paying- that’s their right as they certainly don’t owe him that.  Should they choose that option though it doesn’t seem like an effective option to me.  I really don’t think the parents can force him to quit work- I assume he’s either 18 or about to be 18.  It would be unduly controlling to force him to give up his income.  I think it would just drive a wedge between him and his parents. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by LucyStoner

[ktgrok]

Also, is he medicated for the ADHD? Meds  could make all the difference, if they haven't tried them yet. 

[elegantlion]

My mind wouldn't jump to drugs, but apathy, depression, and senioritis. What are his friends doing? I was the kid that wasn't going to college, I graduated at semester to get out of school. I already felt badly enough because I was an A and B student who wasn't getting ready to head off to college. I can't imagine what feelings I would have had had I been there in the spring. My grades plummeted my final semester anyway. I remember consciously making the choice to do no homework for one class - history, ironically. 

It sounds likes he could be feeling disconnected if school is telling him he can't stay to study and parents are at work. For me, I'd be taking that kid on a long drive, maybe a weekend trip, and outlining the importance of finishing when he's so close. Then I'd see what he needs. Maybe it's fear of an unknown future. Maybe it's willful defiance. 

I wouldn't punish, I would guide, but express my concern and disappointment while letting him know that whatever happens there are still options. 

[Chris in VA]

16 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

He already knows exactly what he has to do, he just isn't doing it.  And he isn't online or gaming much at all, but he is going out with friends a lot, which will stop because he is now grounded.

I suggested they allow him to continue working but let him have VERY limited access to the money to spend until  he "earns" it back by getting his grades up or graduating.

going out with friends a lot and major grade changes, and blowing money allscream alcohol or drugs to me. Of course I could be way off. 

Keeping money earned from a legal adult doesn't seem like an option. 

He could refuse the drug test. That would be a major tip-off. She would have to have a plan in place in case he tests positive. 

Shudder. I don't envy her. 

[Scarlett]

My dss18 is not doing his high school course work either.  He has been working a lot the last week, but I knew his work would pick up this spring...he had months in the late fall and winter where he often only worked 1 day a week.  I begged him to get his course work done then.  Now he is leaving for work at 4:30 p.m. and getting home at 12:30 or 1:00 a.m. and having to get up the next morning and leave for Vo-tech at 7:30.  He did that 4 nights this week.  He is just over high school.  Dh had a talk with him this morning and repeated how important it is to get the work done ---he said dss18 was high annoyed.  

[Farrar]

This thread is a bit fascinating at how all over the place everyone's thinking is.

Assuming that there really isn't more at play here, he doesn't sound like he's got anything more than a case of, as Tanaqui called it, senioritis. Especially since he knows what he wants to do and he wants to get to his "real life" now.

If they want to have any sense of trust and be able to influence his life going forward, I can't think of much worse they could do than a random drug test. I'm not wholly opposed to that for young people who are struggling with shown substance issues, but I don't actually think not wanting to finish British lit or trig class or whatever is a sign of substance abuse.

[Scarlett]

21 minutes ago, Farrar said:

This thread is a bit fascinating at how all over the place everyone's thinking is.

Assuming that there really isn't more at play here, he doesn't sound like he's got anything more than a case of, as Tanaqui called it, senioritis. Especially since he knows what he wants to do and he wants to get to his "real life" now.

If they want to have any sense of trust and be able to influence his life going forward, I can't think of much worse they could do than a random drug test. I'm not wholly opposed to that for young people who are struggling with shown substance issues, but I don't actually think not wanting to finish British lit or trig class or whatever is a sign of substance abuse.

ITA and I don't know how long this young man has had his own car and the job, but it just changes everything for teens when they get that taste of freedom and independence. 

Also, there is a chance he will fail and also not want to do summer school.  So then he might go to the trade school (I think I read up thread there is a path to GED with that trade school) Or he may decide he doesn't even want to do that.  In which case the next step is full time work and a plan to become independent with that full time job.  

I think it is really hard for parents to face that things they always thought would just naturally happen indeed will not be happening.  That doesn't mean his life is doomed.  There are many paths to happy lives.  

[Murphy101]

The first thing I’d do is see what the possible options actually are and what the plan of action would be to attain each of them. 

Many kids this age are just frozen in the headlights and need someone to sit them down and lay it out step by step to show them what is attainable. 

Look at currently situation and what would be necessary to pass high school. In detail. Class 1 needs these assignments completed on this schedule.

If that doesn’t happen then option B goes into effect, this is what must happen by these dates to make that work out.

In addition, I’d lay out the limits of what my household will allow. What I will allow as far as my financial or physical support.  What we as his loving parents would expect of him as a functional, respectable, contributing to society adult living in our home.

Anything else would be dependent on how he responded to that conversation. 

[SKL]

If he's not doing school then he can't just sit around ... in my family he'd be required to pay room & board, meaning work full time, and pay for his own car too.  Maybe a little more "tough love" is in order.  Then maybe completing 2 classes with a passing grade wouldn't sound so draconian.

[Bootsie]

I have seen many high school students and college students suffer from senioritis.  They just feel like they are driving down a boring road that is getting ready to dead end anyway and there are a lot more interesting things to spend time and energy on.  

Another thing that can happen is that the student is scared about moving on.  DH served as an assoc dean in charge of handling probation/suspension cases of college students.  He saw a number of puzzling cases where a strong student would all of a sudden be failing a class the last semester; the student may stop showing up for class or even drop a class that was a requirement for graduation.  He thought this was very odd until he realized he was operating under the assumption that they wanted to graduate.  As soon as he realized that the could not assume that they wanted to graduate, the behavior made more sense.  Being at the university, having mom and dad paying bills, not being personally responsible for their life and career sounded better than going to work all day every day.  So, these students would self-sabotage to maintain the status quo.  What appeared to be a disinterest in school really was a manifistation that they did not want to leave school.  

[TechWife]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

This thread is a bit fascinating at how all over the place everyone's thinking is.

Assuming that there really isn't more at play here, he doesn't sound like he's got anything more than a case of, as Tanaqui called it, senioritis. Especially since he knows what he wants to do and he wants to get to his "real life" now.

If they want to have any sense of trust and be able to influence his life going forward, I can't think of much worse they could do than a random drug test. I'm not wholly opposed to that for young people who are struggling with shown substance issues, but I don't actually think not wanting to finish British lit or trig class or whatever is a sign of substance abuse.

 

One of the benefits of getting input from a variety of people is that people have a variety of experiences. I know that I have spoken from my experience, although not all have. Good ideas don't come from experience alone, but those with experience who are willing to share enrich all of us. My husband calls the forum "crowd sourcing."

I see no problem with a drug test and I also see you have thrown out a wise caution about judicious use of drug testing. It takes a village.

[Pen]

 

21 hours ago, DawnM said:

• Has lost all motivation
• Goes to therapy once a week for ADD/Executive Function Issues/General teen stuff but no depression (yes, they have looked into it)

 

 

21 hours ago, DawnM said:

Therapist has talked to him,

 

I don’t think talking to someone is useful for EF, ADHD, (or depression if he is actually depressed). 

 

Medication might possibly help. 

 

Action oriented , hands on support, like a tutor or EF ADHD coach saying, “okay, get out your book, open it ...” might help.  

My biggest concern would be that this is an inability due to ___, (EF, depression, anxiety... type issues) not a bad attitude.  And that it won’t resolve just by going to trade school program.  It would in any case probably be easier to work on the just do enough to finish up for five weeks than for a several year more costly program.  

[DawnM]

2 hours ago, HeighHo said:

 

That makes it easier. They should point out the time difference...five weeks now and done, or 11 weeks.   Then walk him thru getting his work and makeup work done each evening.  English and SS right?  I read the English with my kid..some of it was a slog.  He can start reviewing for finals now - that will give the makeup work double duty.

 

Oh, they have been telling him that for a while.   I know it is English, not sure about the 2nd subject, I thought it was math, but she talked about his English stuff so much that I can't remember.

 

[unsinkable]

10 hours ago, SKL said:

I would try to convince him that it would be a lot easier for him to just do enough to finish high school now, vs. starting a whole new program from scratch to get a document that many won't view as a "real" diploma.

I would wonder if there are some drugs or other severe distractions involved.  Girlfriend or something?  Is he getting way too deep into one of those elaborate games? 

Is he under 18?  If so, his parents can take away some of the possible distractions.  I would also withdraw the parents' portion of car expenses unless he applies himself to graduate.

Bolded by me. Indeed.

He is 5 weeks from never having to deal with mandatory schooling again, ever! To paraphrase Clark Griswald:

He's 5 weeks from the f^*$ing fun part and he is going to bail NOW?

I would use every combo of carrot and stick possible, including taking the car, and daily checking of work, and severely limiting social life unless school work is done. any meals he wants, limited/no chores, big wads of cash...any carrots he likes plus ranch to dip them in.

GED would not be an option at this point, nor would dropping out without serious consequences (see above). 

I am of the belief that helping a child of mine get a high school diploma is not something that could permanently ruin our relationship! Unless the parents beat him , verbally abused him, humiliated him in public, etc, in order to do it, my prediction would be that once he has that diploma and certainly a few years down the Maturity Road, he will see how valuable it was for the parents to do what they did.

[Garga]

6 hours ago, Splash1 said:

I had a child that at about this time of year his senior year we didn't know if he would pass or not to graduate.  I contacted his teachers and asked for exactly what he needed to do to pass their class so he could graduate.  They were very responsive and told us exactly what  assignments, etc needed to be turned in and how many points needed to pass.  He had gotten it into his head there were too many assignments due and there was no way he could accomplish it all (multiple challenges).  Having them just assign him the essentials made the list more doable and talking to the teachers made them part of our team. I gave my son the list  and told him it was up to him but that HS diploma was important and he'd regret not finishing.  He did the work required (teachers were kind and worked with us) and we found out that he passed at 3pm on day grades were do that he would graduate with 2 extra points.  He was honestly a disaster the last semester of high school so it was a huge accomplishment that he passed those two classes.   Good luck.  No wisdom here just understand how parents are feeling right now.

 

5 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Also, is he medicated for the ADHD? Meds  could make all the difference, if they haven't tried them yet. 

 

I agree with these two.  And a calendar where he can X out the days as they go by until the end.

[ktgrok]

Ok, rereading, he's seeing some non medical person for EF issues. Um, you can't freaking fix EF issues by meeting with someone. I mean, they can give you strategies but generally a person with EF issue already KNOWS the strategies, the problem is implementing them!!!! They are not dumb, they know what to do, but can't make themselves do it, at least not in a timely fashion. They are stuck on the urgent, not the important. So yes, strategies that trick you into thinking things are more urgent help, mini deadlines help, but that's one session of talking, not ongoing therapy sessions!!! That's banana pants. 

Get some freaking meds! (not you, the parents of this kid. Unless you want some too...lol)

It's like taking your diabetic to talk to a therapist. Get them insulin!

And the parents cannot sit there and complain about this, but then say they are too busy to sit down with the kid and help him through this. If it is that important, than sit down EVERY evening and several hours each weekend and don't get out of that chair until the work is done. Sit right next to him. Read the directions to him. Whatever it takes. You don't get to complain that he won't put the work in and then say you can't be bothered to put in any work!

Now, maybe this kid won't do the work, even with mom or dad sitting beside them every evening. I don't know. If I was dead set on the kid graduating I'd have mandatory study hours, every night, and I'd be there monitoring, helping, etc. (FYI mandatory study hours worked for me, even unmedicated, in college...my sorority had them and it took away the "well, I don't REALLY need to read that chapter tonight" mind talk and got me sitting my but down and getting stuff done, since I wasn't allowed to do anything else anyway). 

Otherwise, if they won't help him graduate, stop bitching about it and help him come up with another plan. 

And get the poor kid some meds!

[DawnM]

7 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Ok, rereading, he's seeing some non medical person for EF issues. Um, you can't freaking fix EF issues by meeting with someone. I mean, they can give you strategies but generally a person with EF issue already KNOWS the strategies, the problem is implementing them!!!! They are not dumb, they know what to do, but can't make themselves do it, at least not in a timely fashion. They are stuck on the urgent, not the important. So yes, strategies that trick you into thinking things are more urgent help, mini deadlines help, but that's one session of talking, not ongoing therapy sessions!!! That's banana pants. 

Get some freaking meds! (not you, the parents of this kid. Unless you want some too...lol)

It's like taking your diabetic to talk to a therapist. Get them insulin!

And the parents cannot sit there and complain about this, but then say they are too busy to sit down with the kid and help him through this. If it is that important, than sit down EVERY evening and several hours each weekend and don't get out of that chair until the work is done. Sit right next to him. Read the directions to him. Whatever it takes. You don't get to complain that he won't put the work in and then say you can't be bothered to put in any work!

Now, maybe this kid won't do the work, even with mom or dad sitting beside them every evening. I don't know. If I was dead set on the kid graduating I'd have mandatory study hours, every night, and I'd be there monitoring, helping, etc. (FYI mandatory study hours worked for me, even unmedicated, in college...my sorority had them and it took away the "well, I don't REALLY need to read that chapter tonight" mind talk and got me sitting my but down and getting stuff done, since I wasn't allowed to do anything else anyway). 

Otherwise, if they won't help him graduate, stop bitching about it and help him come up with another plan. 

And get the poor kid some meds!

 

But he got As and Bs before, so I don't personally think this is just a med issue.  I mean, if he finds meds help some, great, but I don't think it will be an instant solving of the issue of apathy.  I can't even remember if we talked about meds.  I know I mentioned drug testing.  

They DO try to help him.  That isn't the issue.  

Edited April 19, 2019 by DawnM

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

But he got As and Bs without meds, so I don't personally think this is just a med issue.  I mean, if he finds meds help some, great, but I don't think it will be an instant solving of the issue of apathy.

They DO try to help him.  That isn't the issue.  

Are they putting int he time every night? Or is it that they try, but he won't cooperate (different issue, btdt, not a lot you can do). What is the therapist for then? I'm very confused. 

Also ADHD can be overcome with lots of motivation, but if he's lacking that, or sleep, or whatever, it's another story. 

I do think drug/alochol testing may be in order. 

[DawnM]

3 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Are they putting int he time every night? Or is it that they try, but he won't cooperate (different issue, btdt, not a lot you can do). What is the therapist for then? I'm very confused. 

Also ADHD can be overcome with lots of motivation, but if he's lacking that, or sleep, or whatever, it's another story. 

I do think drug/alochol testing may be in order. 

 

I have already suggested a drug test to them.  They are WILLING to put in the time every night, he just won't do it.  I am not 100% sure about why he goes to a therapist, but she did mention ADD issues along with it.   I know where my son went (Asperger's stuff) they also had therapists who dealt specifically with ADD issues, so I assumed that was the reason.  

I did react because your post was quite strong.  I am not going to yell at them, I simply want to offer suggestions and help, not chastise or order them to do things.  This is THEIR kid, not mine.  And I know when we were struggling with my ASD child, it didn't help to have people dogmatically tell me exactly what I should do.  It helped to have people give suggestions and hugs.

[Arcadia]

11 minutes ago, DawnM said:

But he got As and Bs before, so I don't personally think this is just a med issue.  I mean, if he finds meds help some, great, but I don't think it will be an instant solving of the issue of apathy.  

 

I have no idea about ADHD medications. However a student can cope until the student can’t cope, and they use apathy to mask their inability to cope due to self esteem (lose face with classmates) issues. I have encountered that more often with male students I have tutored than females students. 

[DawnM]

Just now, Arcadia said:

 

I have no idea about ADHD medications. However a student can cope until the student can’t cope, and they use apathy to mask their inability to cope due to self esteem (lose face with classmates) issues. I have encountered that more often with male students I have tutored than females students. 

 

Maybe.  She didn't mention any of that, but I can ask.  He still aces the tests, it is the projects/papers/homework he isn't doing.  I know she mentioned that the standardized tests he can pull off really high scores on, but he just won't do the rest of the work.  And I know she said his social life is still very strong and he will choose that over a video game any day.

[Arcadia]

3 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 He still aces the tests, it is the projects/papers/homework he isn't doing.  I know she mentioned that the standardized tests he can pull off really high scores on, but he just won't do the rest of the work.  

 

My DS13 is good enough at test taking that he can ace multiple choice quizzes (SAT subject tests 😛 ) with not much understanding. He needs my nagging and scaffolding to do the written work.

[DawnM]

1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

 

My DS13 is good enough at test taking that he can ace multiple choice quizzes (SAT subject tests 😛 ) with not much understanding. He needs my nagging and scaffolding to do the written work.

 

Yeah.  I get it.  I have one like that too.  I just don't have all the info on why he went from As and Bs to Fs.  

[DawnM]

4 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

Dawn, do you know this young man well enough to have a gut feeling about what might be happening?

The sudden change from above average grades to not even wanting to finish, coinciding with cash to burn and freedom to go out with friends all the time, is what makes me think drugs are a possibility worth investigating. 

As far as the parents being willing to try, but the kid won’t... well they are in a sense enabling him by continuing to pay for things while he spends his time and money on amusements. 

I say these things with some peripheral experience with an extended family member. The parents both worked - a brilliant child was left to do as he pleased and what started out as hanging out with friends from his job quickly became a serious addiction. Parents did a drug test , which gave them the leverage they needed to properly intervene. Before all was said and done, they had used all their vacation time, personal days, and borrowed against 401Ks to get their son back on track. Long story, but an eventual successful outcome.  I’d recommend any parent who may even possibly standing at the doorstep of such a situation to not mess around, but to immediately do whatever it takes to stop the downward spiral. It's not just about finishing or not finishing high school, it’s about learning how to navigate any of the many challenges life throws our way. 

JMO

 

I honestly have only met him once or twice.  I know the mom and not super well.  She came to me to discuss but I only had about 10 min. to talk at the time.  I am hoping we can talk again after Spring Break.

And I thought of that too.  My son's best friend has an older brother who is as you describe.  He started out doing pot recreationally and then when his parents divorced he went off the rails and now sells it to pay for his addiction.  I know many think you can't get addicted to pot, but in my experience it seems to be more like alcohol, some people can handle it recreationally, and some get addicted.  His parents (my son's BFFs parents, not the person this thread is about) aren't doing anything.  It frustrates me to no end.

Edited April 19, 2019 by DawnM

[DawnM]

1 minute ago, HeighHo said:

 

Thats why he has low grades....isn't doing the assignments and probably has incompletes in seatwork.  Parent must sit with him and do it with him.  "Willing" doesn't matter, they must do it.  One takes English, one takes SS, get it done.   If he has a study hall, he should be moved to a supervised study hall where the staff member will have him work instead of talk.

 

Thanks, but I am not going to tell them they MUST do anything.  I am offering suggestions.  He has no study hall, he goes home halfway through the day.  He is not allowed to stay on campus.   

And anyway, even if he had study hall, it is usually in the back of the library, while the librarian has other duties or classes in there, so it isn't like he would have a teacher standing over him.  That is how our district works.  

[Scarlett]

Well, kids or anyone really can get themselves in trouble with drugs.  It happens. Hopefully, that isn't the case.

If this young man were in the beginning of his senior year I would offer different advice.  September might be the time to exercise tough love and take away the car and the job until he gets his grades up.  But the truth is at this point, 6 weeks away from graduation all that would do is cause a major bad blood between them.  Now is the time to point out his options, offer help and then set their own boundaries.

[HomeAgain]

With all of your information, this is starting to sound like the Impossible Task. The kid slipped, and is finding it harder and harder to pick up the ball again.  If this is the case, he needs serious handholding through this part of his life.

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, unsinkable said:

Bolded by me. Indeed.

He is 5 weeks from never having to deal with mandatory schooling again, ever! To paraphrase Clark Griswald:

He's 5 weeks from the f^*$ing fun part and he is going to bail NOW?

I would use every combo of carrot and stick possible, including taking the car, and daily checking of work, and severely limiting social life unless school work is done. any meals he wants, limited/no chores, big wads of cash...any carrots he likes plus ranch to dip them in.

GED would not be an option at this point, nor would dropping out without serious consequences (see above). 

I am of the belief that helping a child of mine get a high school diploma is not something that could permanently ruin our relationship! Unless the parents beat him , verbally abused him, humiliated him in public, etc, in order to do it, my prediction would be that once he has that diploma and certainly a few years down the Maturity Road, he will see how valuable it was for the parents to do what they did.

 

I agree.

With only 5 weeks of school to go, my main priority as a parent would be to get the kid to pass those two classes. I wouldn’t be offering other options, like summer school or an extra year of high school, and I wouldn’t even waste a lot of time trying to figure out the cause of his apathy toward school. Time is too short right now to focus on anything but getting the kid to pass those classes. If there’s anything else going on, there will be time later to figure it out. 

Honestly, if my dh and I were both working full time, I would try to find a way for one or both of us to take vacation days or work half days so one of us could pick the kid up at school every afternoon and make sure he did his schoolwork for as many days of those 5 weeks as possible. (Actually, just the thought of something like that might be enough to get the kid back on track. 😉 ) And I would also reward the kid for any and all effort he put in to getting his work done. I would consider it to be a family project and I would try to frame it as a positive thing — the kid getting his diploma is important and we can work together as a family to make sure he gets it. 

Dawn, do you know if the kid’s friends are also doing poorly in school or if it’s just this one kid? I’m wondering if his friends have been a negative influence on him. It sounds like he is a smart and capable kid. If he had executive function issues or any kind of learning disability, he wouldn’t have always gotten excellent grades in the past, so I wouldn’t be thinking along those lines. I have no idea if the kid is using drugs, so I really can’t comment on that. If he has never had any issues with drugs in the past and the only change his parents are seeing is that he has lost interest in school, I wouldn’t immediately assume drugs were part of the problem, and would focus on the immediate and time-sensitive problem at hand, which is finding a way for the kid to pass those classes so he can graduate. 

[Catwoman]

27 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

 

What you asked for in  your OP was for suggestions and what redirection the parents needed, what I gave is the redirection needed: sit with sr and walk him thru it actively.  Each take one of the required two subjects.  You don't want ideas on redirection now two pages later, that's fine, but don't be screaming with caps to those who are giving you the courtesy of listing the appropriate redirection.  Do us the courtesy of editing and stating you only now want suggestions.

Your friends are blowing smoke.  The school has the power to remove this student from class and put him in a supervised setting where he can work his packets and finish both classes.  

 

When did she “scream with caps?” Did I miss something?

I see that she capitalized “must” for emphasis, but that certainly didn’t seem like “screaming” to me. Was there something other than that? You are coming across as being quite rude to Dawn, and you are making a lot of assumptions about how her school district works. Considering that she is a PS counselor, I would think she knows exactly what the school can and will do.

This isn’t her child. She hardly knows the kid. She is not close friends with the parents, either. I can certainly understand why she wouldn’t feel comfortable giving the parents commands about what they must do to help their son. She can make polite suggestions, but I don’t think it would be appropriate for her to be forceful about it. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Catwoman

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

Just want to point out, parents can get senioritis, too. They may be sooooo ready for their kid graduate and move on that even they lack the physical, mental and emotional energy to make the kind of Herculean effort it will likely take to get their son over the hump. 

Dawn, when this mom tells you they’ve “tried,” you may be able to gently ask exactly what that trying has looked like to date. She may need a bit of exhortation herself to up her/their game and power through the next 5 weeks with him. Scaffolding, tough love, thinking outside the box...whatever you call it, he likely needs their committed help, even to the point of one or both of them taking time off their  job. I know you don’t want to tell her what to do, but maybe could help her brainstorm some possible strategies?

 

ETA catwoman we were typing at the same time!

 

I was just going to post that we were posting at the same time, but you beat me to it! 😀

[Catwoman]

7 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

See, I think just the opposite. At the beginning of the year you’d have a long haul to work through. At a short 5 weeks, power through to the immediate goal (diploma) and come up with a fresh long term strategy at that point. Otherwise the entire year and more would have been a waste. 

 

Same here. 

Four years of high school down the tubes because the kid flaked out a month before graduation?

Not on my watch!

I can only imagine how frantic those parents must be feeling right now. 

 

[Rosie_0801]

Maybe the parents need to take some annual leave so they can sit with the lad *during the day,*  and apply the same protein, water and snacks we've done with our littles.

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

I have already suggested a drug test to them.  They are WILLING to put in the time every night, he just won't do it.  I am not 100% sure about why he goes to a therapist, but she did mention ADD issues along with it.   I know where my son went (Asperger's stuff) they also had therapists who dealt specifically with ADD issues, so I assumed that was the reason.  

I did react because your post was quite strong.  I am not going to yell at them, I simply want to offer suggestions and help, not chastise or order them to do things.  This is THEIR kid, not mine.  And I know when we were struggling with my ASD child, it didn't help to have people dogmatically tell me exactly what I should do.  It helped to have people give suggestions and hugs.

I'm sorry, you are right. There is a lot I don't know, and I shouldn't have been so forceful. 

They do need to examine if they are saying, "hey, when you are ready to do homework come get me" or "It's 7pm, time for homework" and then sitting with cups of coffee or some cold soda and a bag of chips and powering through with him. If you make it an option, he won't ever ask for it, you know?Again, it may be he is oppositional and will not do it no matter what, in which case I'd stop paying for the car. He can drop out and work full time and pay himself. 

42 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Maybe the parents need to take some annual leave so they can sit with the lad *during the day,*  and apply the same protein, water and snacks we've done with our littles.

yeah, I'm thinking this too. Like, drive him to class, pick him up afterward, head to the library or better yet, starbucks or panera (food and caffeine) and sit and get stuff done. Go home or to the gym and let him burn off some energy, then later in the day do another shot of schoolwork. If not the parents, than maybe an aunt, friend of the family, grandparent?

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

Time is too short right now to focus on anything but getting the kid to pass those classes. If there’s anything else going on, there will be time later to figure it out.

 

I disagree. If drugs are in the picture, there may not be time to figure it out later. If mental illness is in the picture, there may  not be time to figure it out later. If suicidal ideation or self-harm are in the picture, there may not be time to figure it out later.

On average, in the US, 130 people die every day from opioid overdose. That is opioid's alone (CDC statistics).

Worldwide, someone dies from suicide every 40 seconds. For every suicide death, there are 20 unsuccessful attempts (WHO statistics).

Academics are not the most important thing in the world. They never have been. If a person is truly doing drugs or having mental health issues, every second counts. For a person who is struggling with addiction or mental health issues, everything else must take the back burner. If that is what is going on in this situation (and none of us knows all of the facts), then earning a high school diploma in five weeks must take a back seat. If not, the diploma could be completely irrelevant during week six.

I'm sorry, but statements like this one are dangerous generalizations.

Only the parents, the teen and health care providers are really in a position to tease out what is happening and I'm grateful they have a friend like the OP, who is willing to brainstorm ideas with them & moral provide support as she can.

 

[Pen]

2 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

Maybe.  She didn't mention any of that, but I can ask.  He still aces the tests, it is the projects/papers/homework he isn't doing.  I know she mentioned that the standardized tests he can pull off really high scores on, but he just won't do the rest of the work.  And I know she said his social life is still very strong and he will choose that over a video game any day.

 

If he can ace tests it could be worthwhile finding out if they’ll (school, teachers) give him passing (C-) credit for the courses so he can graduate.  He might be able to get some 504 help as a person with adhd, and some leniency might come in the circumstances.

Or actual help there at the school to do more than talk at him

eta: some schools allow challenging a final exam as a general option without any special 504 accommodations.  If a student is just bored and frustrated by a ton of “busy work.”

Or perhaps he could take SAT subject exams for the two classes in lieu of course work. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Pen

[Catwoman]

19 minutes ago, TechWife said:

 

I disagree. If drugs are in the picture, there may not be time to figure it out later. If mental illness is in the picture, there may  not be time to figure it out later. If suicidal ideation or self-harm are in the picture, there may not be time to figure it out later.

On average, in the US, 130 people die every day from opioid overdose. That is opioid's alone (CDC statistics).

Worldwide, someone dies from suicide every 40 seconds. For every suicide death, there are 20 unsuccessful attempts (WHO statistics).

Academics are not the most important thing in the world. They never have been. If a person is truly doing drugs or having mental health issues, every second counts. For a person who is struggling with addiction or mental health issues, everything else must take the back burner. If that is what is going on in this situation (and none of us knows all of the facts), then earning a high school diploma in five weeks must take a back seat. If not, the diploma could be completely irrelevant during week six.

I'm sorry, but statements like this one are dangerous generalizations.

Only the parents, the teen and health care providers are really in a position to tease out what is happening and I'm grateful they have a friend like the OP, who is willing to brainstorm ideas with them & moral provide support as she can.

 

 

Wow.

 I think you are making some giant leaps here.

We have no evidence that this young man is addicted to drugs, is mentally ill, or is having any kind of suicidal thoughts whatsoever. 

You are free to disagree with me, but what I’m seeing here is a kid who is tired of schoolwork and who can’t be bothered doing it because he doesn’t currently see a good reason for getting his high school diploma. His parents clearly believe otherwise, and they only have five weeks to convince their son that he needs to pass those last few courses so he can graduate, and I can understand why they feel that way.

I’m giving the parents the benefit of the doubt that they know their son better than we do, so if they think he’s perfectly capable of finishing his last two courses without killing himself or overdosing on drugs in the meantime, I’m going to believe them and tailor my suggestions accordingly.

Frankly, I think you are the one who is making dangerous generalizations. Most of us seem to think this is probably a perfectly normal kid with a case of senioritis, but you seem to be suggesting that he may actually be a suicidal, mentally ill drug addict — and doesn’t seem to fit in with what Dawn has been telling us about him.

 

[Shoeless]

8 hours ago, Farrar said:

This thread is a bit fascinating at how all over the place everyone's thinking is.

Assuming that there really isn't more at play here, he doesn't sound like he's got anything more than a case of, as Tanaqui called it, senioritis. Especially since he knows what he wants to do and he wants to get to his "real life" now.

If they want to have any sense of trust and be able to influence his life going forward, I can't think of much worse they could do than a random drug test. I'm not wholly opposed to that for young people who are struggling with shown substance issues, but I don't actually think not wanting to finish British lit or trig class or whatever is a sign of substance abuse.

 

Agreed.  I had a bad case of senioritis, where I got mediocre grades, spent tons of time with friends, and blew a bunch of money.  No drugs or booze were involved.  I was just tired of being treated like a child and micromanaged in school, so I ditched classes, spent money on food, movies, gas for the car, and general nonsense.  My mom was convinced I was spending it on drugs, and I felt so insulted and angry.  That accusation definitely did not improve our relationship.

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Maybe the parents need to take some annual leave so they can sit with the lad *during the day,*  and apply the same protein, water and snacks we've done with our littles.

 

I agree!

Sometimes I wish someone would sit down with me during the day and give me some protein, water, and snacks and help keep me focused on what I’m supposed to be doing! 😅

[Farrar]

The idea that a kid who can’t get it together to pass a couple of classes must be either deeply depressed or on serious drugs is just weird to me. Like, sure, those things happen. But they do not follow from the evidence we’ve been given.

I like that parenting culture has shifted from looking for moral failings and being punitive towards looking for reasons and giving support. But on the other hand, sometimes we can take it too far.

[Catwoman]

9 minutes ago, Farrar said:

The idea that a kid who can’t get it together to pass a couple of classes must be either deeply depressed or on serious drugs is just weird to me. Like, sure, those things happen. But they do not follow from the evidence we’ve been given.

I like that parenting culture has shifted from looking for moral failings and being punitive towards looking for reasons and giving support. But on the other hand, sometimes we can take it too far.

 

I agree completely. 

[Tanaqui]

19 minutes ago, Farrar said:

The idea that a kid who can’t get it together to pass a couple of classes must be either deeply depressed or on serious drugs is just weird to me. Like, sure, those things happen. But they do not follow from the evidence we’ve been given.

I like that parenting culture has shifted from looking for moral failings and being punitive towards looking for reasons and giving support. But on the other hand, sometimes we can take it too far.

 

The one thing that gives me pause is that the OP states that the kid has been screened for depression. It does seem to me that you're not likely to do that unless you think depression is a possibility... and we certainly don't have enough information to know why the parents took that route. Was it just the grades or was it something else that we're not privy to?

[unsinkable]

1 minute ago, Seasider too said:

 

In my experience, in the cases of two youth I know personally, it follows exactly as Dawn has described this young man. One had become drug addicted. The other received a Bipolar diagnosis. 

IMO, a parental intervention is justified. But helping him to pull through to graduation doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive. There can be BOTH a deep look at root cause AND a deep effort to achieve the goal.

I agree.

And given the length of time it takes to get mental health services where I live, if their locale was similar, especially for those under 18 (there is a severe shortage of caregivers) they would NEED to do both at the same time. Here, if they waited to get an appointment and an evaluation before deciding how to deal with the school issue, on-time graduation opportunities would be long passed. past? passed? (Let's leave our behinds in the past/Puumbaa)

But since he already seeing someone, hopefully it will go faster. And hopefully if mental health is an issue, he won't start balking at going to see someone. 

 

[Catwoman]

7 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

In my experience, in the cases of two youth I know personally, it follows exactly as Dawn has described this young man. One had become drug addicted. The other received a Bipolar diagnosis. 

IMO, a parental intervention is justified. But helping him to pull through to graduation doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive. There can be BOTH a deep look at root cause AND a deep effort to achieve the goal.

ETA FWIW, in both the cases I know, the parents were able to both intervene for diagnosis/treatment purposes AND work with schools to establish a plan to enable each of them to graduate on time (in fact, after getting focused one of them graduated a semester early).

 

Yes, and realistically, if the parents work closely with their son to help him pass his classes, they may very well get a better indication of what is actually going on with him.

And even if it turns out the kid is using drugs, that doesn’t necessarily preclude him from graduating from high school on time. Obviously, I’m not suggesting that the parents should overlook it if it turns out that their son is using drugs, and they should certainly get him help for that, but didn’t most of us know some kids who used drugs in high school and college and still graduated? This kid seems to be functioning just fine in every area of his life except for school, so it would appear that he could pass his classes if he put a little effort into it.

[73349]

I think punishment is not a helpful concept here. He needs to have a clear plan (generated by him) and support enacting it.

First, if his plan is CC, he needs to make sure he actually qualifies to enroll there and get enrolled ASAP.

Then I'd invite him to share his plan for before his classes start. Would he prefer to work full time than spend another two months on the two high school classes? I'd warn him of what will happen if he leaves CC with no degree/certification if he hasn't achieved a HS diploma. Would he like help finishing these last two pesky classes? What would actually help?

I think I would decline to subsidize the car further unless he was either working FT or completing school as he was supposed to. I might, though, pay him minimum wage to do his schoolwork, if he'd be open to that. He does seem to be motivated to earn money.

(ETA: Homeschooling would not have occurred to me as an option because my state doesn't allow you to start a homeschool with students outside the compulsory attendance age, which is 7-16, but it doesn't sound like he'd be on board anyway).

Edited April 19, 2019 by whitehawk

[Bootsie]

2 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Maybe the parents need to take some annual leave so they can sit with the lad *during the day,*  and apply the same protein, water and snacks we've done with our littles.

I had a friend who was in a very similar situation with a high school daughter.  It really would not have mattered if she took leave.  There was no way that she could sit with her child and make sure the child did the school work.  They did everything--took away car keys,  no allowance, no phone, etc.  But, when her daughter left school with another student and went who knows where, there was nothing she could do.  When the child had no transportation of her own but ran out of the house and jumped in a car a friend was driving, there was nothing they could do. The parents were to the point of being fined by the school district or truancy.  Somehow they were supposed to make the child stay at school once they dropped her off even though the school could not ensure that.  They could not not wrestle her to the ground when she tried to leave the house or lock her in her room and restrict her exit.  They tried removing all of  the privileges they were supporting, but really could not MAKE her do anything.  

They desperately tried to find a boarding school with strong discipline for her.  They were all extremely expensive and had long waiting lists.  This went on for about a year.  It made me see how parents can really be in between a rock and a hard place.  Some friends told the mother that she needed to quite her job; she said that she needed to continue for the money for when they were in a position to really get help for their daughter that would probably be very expensive and to keep her own sanity.    

[Pen]

How did he end up with just two classes to complete?  Was he ahead on credits? Or behind?

Maybe your state and local schools are different than ours.  Here 24 credits are required to graduate with some specifics like 4 years English, 3 math, 3 social studies, etc.    

At our area school either there would have to be some extra credits from somewhere such as high school classes in 8th grade or summer school, or there would have already had to have been some earlier difficulty leaving 2 credits short, such as not having put full schedule together in prior years, or EF issues in putting required classes onto his schedule, or failing classes, though OP indicated no prior grads before this semester less than a C.

[TechWife]

33 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Wow.

 I think you are making some giant leaps here.

We have no evidence that this young man is addicted to drugs, is mentally ill, or is having any kind of suicidal thoughts whatsoever. 

You are free to disagree with me, but what I’m seeing here is a kid who is tired of schoolwork and who can’t be bothered doing it because he doesn’t currently see a good reason for getting his high school diploma. His parents clearly believe otherwise, and they only have five weeks to convince their son that he needs to pass those last few courses so he can graduate, and I can understand why they feel that way.

I’m giving the parents the benefit of the doubt that they know their son better than we do, so if they think he’s perfectly capable of finishing his last two courses without killing himself or overdosing on drugs in the meantime, I’m going to believe them and tailor my suggestions accordingly.

Frankly, I think you are the one who is making dangerous generalizations. Most of us seem to think this is probably a perfectly normal kid with a case of senioritis, but you seem to be suggesting that he may actually be a suicidal, mentally ill drug addict — and doesn’t seem to fit in with what Dawn has been telling us about him.

 

 

Actually, I am not, and I'm not the only one, or the first one, who has suggested drugs might be in play. Whether you see it or not, there are several warning signs of drug use and mental health issues in the information Dawn has given. Of course, none of us, including Dawn, know everything about this teen. That's why it's worth mentioning.

I neither agree nor disagree with your conclusions, because neither of us has enough information to draw an accurate picture of the situation.

I am not making a dangerous generalization when I point out that drug use, depression and suicide are real risks. I'm not making a generalization at all. I'm stating facts. The fact is - if this teen has serious issues, a diploma could quickly become irrelevant. Health issues take precedence over academics. Dead people don't need degrees.

This is the second post of mine regarding mental health that you have come in to disparage. You seem, to me, to be unwilling to accept the seriousness and scope of mental and behavioral health issues, so please think about whether or not it's appropriate for you to participate in discussions about the topic. If it's just me you have a problem with, well, then, I probably can't help you. As Popeye said "I yam what I yam." If you can't accept me for who I "yam," then you're losing out, because I think I'm a pretty cool person.

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, TechWife said:

 

Actually, I am not, and I'm not the only one, or the first one, who has suggested drugs might be in play. Whether you see it or not, there are several warning signs of drug use and mental health issues in the information Dawn has given. Of course, none of us, including Dawn, know everything about this teen. That's why it's worth mentioning.

I neither agree nor disagree with your conclusions, because neither of us has enough information to draw an accurate picture of the situation.

I am not making a dangerous generalization when I point out that drug use, depression and suicide are real risks. I'm not making a generalization at all. I'm stating facts. The fact is - if this teen has serious issues, a diploma could quickly become irrelevant. Health issues take precedence over academics. Dead people don't need degrees.

This is the second post of mine regarding mental health that you have come in to disparage. You seem, to me, to be unwilling to accept the seriousness and scope of mental and behavioral health issues, so please think about whether or not it's appropriate for you to participate in discussions about the topic. If it's just me you have a problem with, well, then, I probably can't help you. As Popeye said "I yam what I yam." If you can't accept me for who I "yam," then you're losing out, because I think I'm a pretty cool person.

 

I don’t have a problem with you at all; I simply disagree with you about this particular kid.

I think it is absolutely ridiculous, however, that you think it is inappropriate for me to participate in discussions like this one. Everyone on this forum is entitled to participate in any discussion that they would like, whether or not you personally believe they are qualified to do so. 

You may think that I am not taking this particular situation seriously enough, and that’s fine. I happen to think that you are blowing this situation way out of proportion. We don’t have to agree on this. Hopefully, Dawn will gain some benefit from both of our perspectives.

[City Mouse]

I have two brothers who did not follow a traditional path to high school graduations. I don't actually know if either one ever got a high school diploma or GED. On is co-owner of a small security guard company, and the other works for an oil pipe line company. Both are good at what they are doing even though it did take them a while to get to those jobs. They both have been living independely of out parents for over 25 yrs. 

i have a kid who only made it through 9th grade because I made a deal with him that he could take the GED once he was old enough if things came to that point. Luckily, he has made it to almost the end on 11th grade passing all classes (although he did pass world history last year by only 2 pits). He started take dual enrollment this year at a local branch campus of the big state university. He has discovered that he likes college class much more than high school. His current plan for next year is to take the bare minimum courses needed to graduate and take more college (we get free dual enrollment here).

i don't see any problem with having the kid in OP go to the trade program if that is what he wants. However, if I was the parent, I would be working with him to make ensure that he is getting enrolled in the program for summer or fall.