What punishments or advice would you give in this situation (teen son) . UPDATE in first post

[TechWife]

13 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I don’t have a problem with you at all; I simply disagree with you about this particular kid.

I think it is absolutely ridiculous, however, that you think it is inappropriate for me to participate in discussions like this one. Everyone on this forum is entitled to participate in any discussion that they would like, whether or not you personally believe they are qualified to do so. 

You may think that I am not taking this particular situation seriously enough, and that’s fine. I happen to think that you are blowing this situation way out of proportion. We don’t have to agree on this. Hopefully, Dawn will gain some benefit from both of our perspectives.

Except that all I am doing is presenting information, not blowing a situation out of proportion.  I am not making a conclusion one way or another about what is going on with this particular teen. I have repeatedly stated only his parents, his teen and professionals can do that.

[ktgrok]

I think the idea of paying him an hourly wage to study is brilliant!!!!!!

[Arcadia]

Where is his friends who he is spending money with going (assuming that they are his schoolmates)? If his friends are schoolmates and leaving for college, he might think spending time with them is more important than irritating/boring/pesky schoolwork. If his friends are from work, he might think that having a high school diploma isn’t important to his work and that he is going to trade school anyway (unless the trade school he wants requires a high school diploma). 

A friend’s daughter didn’t care that she couldn’t get a high school diploma because she could work at fast food and go to community college in the future if she wants. So she didn’t see any incentive to pass enough high school subjects to get her diploma from public high school.

[Farrar]

If the parents see actual signs of mental health problems or drugs they really, definitely should act on those, though the idea that not wanting to finish senior English is an automatic sign of heavy drug use is still nonsense to me. 

But really, if after getting him EF support and working with him using some of the ideas here like a countdown calendar and maybe a tutor or stopping paying for his car or whatever doesn't yield results... then it's okay to let him fail. Sometimes letting our kids fail is the best thing we can do for them. Even for big, high stakes things. It's also the hardest thing we do as parents, in my opinion. I struggle with it mightily. I try to think about my brother, whose struggles weren't around high school graduation, but were big at times... and trying to fix it all and stop his failure just led to worse consequences down the line. My parents should have backed off and let him fail.

[DawnM]

2 hours ago, Pen said:

 

If he can ace tests it could be worthwhile finding out if they’ll (school, teachers) give him passing (C-) credit for the courses so he can graduate.  He might be able to get some 504 help as a person with adhd, and some leniency might come in the circumstances.

Or actual help there at the school to do more than talk at him

eta: some schools allow challenging a final exam as a general option without any special 504 accommodations.  If a student is just bored and frustrated by a ton of “busy work.”

Or perhaps he could take SAT subject exams for the two classes in lieu of course work. 

 

No, none of those are options at this point.  I don't know if he has a current 504 in place, but I can guarantee you our district won't hold a new one for a failing student and let them pass.  It is a team decision and teachers must give input as to whether he is capable or not and I am 99% sure they will say he is fully capable.  

[DawnM]

1 minute ago, Farrar said:

If the parents see actual signs of mental health problems or drugs they really, definitely should act on those, though the idea that not wanting to finish senior English is an automatic sign of heavy drug use is still nonsense to me. 

But really, if after getting him EF support and working with him using some of the ideas here like a countdown calendar and maybe a tutor or stopping paying for his car or whatever doesn't yield results... then it's okay to let him fail. Sometimes letting our kids fail is the best thing we can do for them. Even for big, high stakes things. It's also the hardest thing we do as parents, in my opinion. I struggle with it mightily. I try to think about my brother, whose struggles weren't around high school graduation, but were big at times... and trying to fix it all and stop his failure just led to worse consequences down the line. My parents should have backed off and let him fail.

 

She did say that would be an option (to fail and do summer school credit recovery or go a whole other semester in the Fall)  She didn't really like the idea of him dropping out and going straight to CC, but I will see what they discussed over break.

[unsinkable]

50 minutes ago, TechWife said:

 

Actually, I am not, and I'm not the only one, or the first one, who has suggested drugs might be in play. Whether you see it or not, there are several warning signs of drug use and mental health issues in the information Dawn has given. Of course, none of us, including Dawn, know everything about this teen. That's why it's worth mentioning.

I neither agree nor disagree with your conclusions, because neither of us has enough information to draw an accurate picture of the situation.

I am not making a dangerous generalization when I point out that drug use, depression and suicide are real risks. I'm not making a generalization at all. I'm stating facts. The fact is - if this teen has serious issues, a diploma could quickly become irrelevant. Health issues take precedence over academics. Dead people don't need degrees.

This is the second post of mine regarding mental health that you have come in to disparage. You seem, to me, to be unwilling to accept the seriousness and scope of mental and behavioral health issues, so please think about whether or not it's appropriate for you to participate in discussions about the topic. If it's just me you have a problem with, well, then, I probably can't help you. As Popeye said "I yam what I yam." If you can't accept me for who I "yam," then you're losing out, because I think I'm a pretty cool person.

 

In the first post of Catwoman's that you quoted, you edited all of Catwoman's advice and reasoning out of her post, then went on to post suicide and overdose stats. Other people have mentioned mental health issue and drug issues but you are the first ( and only to this point) to mention suicide and death by overdose. IMO, it was the combination of ignoring her other points and then presenting the absolute worst case scenario, that seems to be not reacting to what has been already presented. 

[Catwoman]

30 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Except that all I am doing is presenting information, not blowing a situation out of proportion.  I am not making a conclusion one way or another about what is going on with this particular teen. I have repeatedly stated only his parents, his teen and professionals can do that.

 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, because I do believe that posting opioid overdose and suicide statistics was absolutely blowing this situation way out of proportion. Dawn gave us no indication that this kid is a serious drug addict or that he is even remotely suicidal. Even if it does turn out that he’s using drugs, he may not be addicted to anything, let alone about to overdose.

 

[unsinkable]

3 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

She did say that would be an option (to fail and do summer school credit recovery or go a whole other semester in the Fall)  She didn't really like the idea of him dropping out and going straight to CC, but I will see what they discussed over break.

Is the credit recovery at their district the kind where the kid just sits and does the work on the computer?

I know kids who have failed classes and then do those programs (for classes like US Government and English) and finish the whole course in a matter of days.

[TechWife]

2 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

 

In the first post of Catwoman's that you quoted, you edited all of Catwoman's advice and reasoning out of her post, then went on to post suicide and overdose stats. Other people have mentioned mental health issue and drug issues but you are the first ( and only to this point) to mention suicide and death by overdose. IMO, it was the combination of ignoring her other points and then presenting the absolute worst case scenario, that seems to be not reacting to what has been already presented. 

Sometimes the worst case scenario is the correct scenario, FWIW.  My information supported my assertion that graduating from high school might not be the most important thing for this teen. In any case, Catwoman and I have had our own conversation about this, thanks anyway.

[DawnM]

Just now, unsinkable said:

Is the credit recovery at their district the kind where the kid just sits and does the work on the computer?

I know kids who have failed classes and then do those programs (for classes like US Government and English) and finish the whole course in a matter of days.

 

Yes, it is.  There is not an actual teacher in there.

[Pen]

8 minutes ago, Farrar said:

If the parents see actual signs of mental health problems or drugs they really, definitely should act on those, though the idea that not wanting to finish senior English is an automatic sign of heavy drug use is still nonsense to me. 

But really, if after getting him EF support and working with him using some of the ideas here like a countdown calendar and maybe a tutor or stopping paying for his car or whatever doesn't yield results... then it's okay to let him fail. Sometimes letting our kids fail is the best thing we can do for them. Even for big, high stakes things. It's also the hardest thing we do as parents, in my opinion. I struggle with it mightily. I try to think about my brother, whose struggles weren't around high school graduation, but were big at times... and trying to fix it all and stop his failure just led to worse consequences down the line. My parents should have backed off and let him fail.

 

If the reason is a bad attitude type thing, then letting him fail and deal with the consequences makes sense.

If the problem is something else, like an underlying depression (despite that apparently having been ruled out), it’s likely to make the situation worse.

[DawnM]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, because I do believe that posting opioid overdose and suicide statistics was absolutely blowing this situation way out of proportion. Dawn gave us no indication that this kid is a serious drug addict or that he is even remotely suicidal. Even if it does turn out that he’s using drugs, he may not be addicted to anything, let alone about to overdose.

 

She gave me no indication of depression, let alone suicidal and was taken a bit aback when I mentioned pot, but did say she would check into it.  

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Sometimes the worst case scenario is the correct scenario, FWIW.  My information supported my assertion that graduating from high school might not be the most important thing for this teen. In any case, Catwoman and I have had our own conversation about this, thanks anyway.

 

Are you telling unsinkable that she shouldn't be posting her views, either?

This is Dawn’s thread. If she wants unsinkable and me to stop posting, I’m sure she will let us know, and we will be happy to oblige. 

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, DawnM said:

She gave me no indication of depression, let alone suicidal and was taken a bit aback when I mentioned pot, but did say she would check into it.  

 

Thanks. That was the impression I got when I read your posts.

[unsinkable]

Just now, DawnM said:

She gave me no indication of depression, let alone suicidal and was taken a bit aback when I mentioned pot, but did say she would check into it.  

I feel awful for her. I think Cat said upthread the parents must be pulling their hair out. I agree! it is so frustrating to see our kids do stuff that is short-sighted!

She sounds like a good mom. And you know...she is 5 weeks from the fun part, too! 

[TechWife]

2 hours ago, TechWife said:

 

I disagree. If drugs are in the picture, there may not be time to figure it out later. If mental illness is in the picture, there may  not be time to figure it out later. If suicidal ideation or self-harm are in the picture, there may not be time to figure it out later.

On average, in the US, 130 people die every day from opioid overdose. That is opioid's alone (CDC statistics).

Worldwide, someone dies from suicide every 40 seconds. For every suicide death, there are 20 unsuccessful attempts (WHO statistics).

Academics are not the most important thing in the world. They never have been. If a person is truly doing drugs or having mental health issues, every second counts. For a person who is struggling with addiction or mental health issues, everything else must take the back burner. If that is what is going on in this situation (and none of us knows all of the facts), then earning a high school diploma in five weeks must take a back seat. If not, the diploma could be completely irrelevant during week six.

I'm sorry, but statements like this one are dangerous generalizations.

Only the parents, the teen and health care providers are really in a position to tease out what is happening and I'm grateful they have a friend like the OP, who is willing to brainstorm ideas with them & moral provide support as she can.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, because I do believe that posting opioid overdose and suicide statistics was absolutely blowing this situation way out of proportion. Dawn gave us no indication that this kid is a serious drug addict or that he is even remotely suicidal. Even if it does turn out that he’s using drugs, he may not be addicted to anything, let alone about to overdose.

 

 

I think you might have misunderstood my intent. My intent with using the statistics was to support my position that there may not be time to "figure it out later" and that academics shouldn't take precedent over making sure something more serious wasn't going on. If there is something more serious going on, there may not be a "later."  I did not use the statistics to support the idea that I think this young man has serious mental/behavioral health issues. I used them to support my belief that there may not be any time to waste with academics. As I have said repeatedly, I don't know what is going on with this teen. Only the teen, his parents and professionals can figure that out. A legitimate part of figuring it out is considering whether or not there are mental/behavioral health issues in play. Figuring that out is more important than academics, if we are going to rank approaches by priority. As others have wisely said in this thread, the family can address the issue on multiple fronts simultaneously. I don't have an issue with that approach, either. I don't, though, think putting any mental/behavioral health concerns on the back burner for the sake of academics is an appropriate approach for anyone.

[TechWife]

10 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Are you telling unsinkable that she shouldn't be posting her views, either?

This is Dawn’s thread. If she wants unsinkable and me to stop posting, I’m sure she will let us know, and we will be happy to oblige. 

Um, no. I didn't say that to you, either. I'm sending you a PM, though.

ETA: I tried to send a PM, but it wouldn't go through. It said "Catwoman cannot receive messages."

Edited April 20, 2019 by TechWife

[Catwoman]

6 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Um, no. I didn't say that to you, either. I'm sending you a PM, though.

ETA: I tried to send a PM, but it wouldn't go through. It said "Catwoman cannot receive messages."

 

You don’t need to send a PM. It’s ok to say whatever you’d like here on this thread. 

I’m sorry if I misunderstood you, but the bolded part of this post was what made it seem like you were telling me not to post, and you also seemed to be telling unsinkable that our discussion was none of her business in a later post. That’s what I was responding to.

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

 

Actually, I am not, and I'm not the only one, or the first one, who has suggested drugs might be in play. Whether you see it or not, there are several warning signs of drug use and mental health issues in the information Dawn has given. Of course, none of us, including Dawn, know everything about this teen. That's why it's worth mentioning.

I neither agree nor disagree with your conclusions, because neither of us has enough information to draw an accurate picture of the situation.

I am not making a dangerous generalization when I point out that drug use, depression and suicide are real risks. I'm not making a generalization at all. I'm stating facts. The fact is - if this teen has serious issues, a diploma could quickly become irrelevant. Health issues take precedence over academics. Dead people don't need degrees.

This is the second post of mine regarding mental health that you have come in to disparage. You seem, to me, to be unwilling to accept the seriousness and scope of mental and behavioral health issues, so please think about whether or not it's appropriate for you to participate in discussions about the topic. If it's just me you have a problem with, well, then, I probably can't help you. As Popeye said "I yam what I yam." If you can't accept me for who I "yam," then you're losing out, because I think I'm a pretty cool person.

 

[TechWife]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

You don’t need to send a PM. It’s ok to say whatever you’d like here on this thread. 

I’m sorry if I misunderstood you, but the bolded part of this post was what made it seem like you were telling me not to post, and you also seemed to be telling unsinkable that our discussion was none of her business in a later post. That’s what I was responding to.

 

I just wanted to check in with you to see if you are okay - you seem a little touchy. Tone is so hard to tell in print.

[Pen]

https://www.additude.com/unmotivated-teenager-video/

the above may not apply, but if there’s known add /EF trouble I’d recommend looking at strategies that apply to teens with these issues.  

Perhaps Richard Lavoie materials would be applicable.

 

[LucyStoner]

What does he earn?  $8-15 an hour would be the usual range. Say he’s earning ~$200 a week.  Some is going to FICA.  Some of his net is going to 1/2 of the car expenses and gas.  Whatever is left is not really enough to support much of a drug habit unless he’s got some other income.  IME with drugs you most often start to see other issues- like not paying his bills or missing work or selling things to pay for drugs. If he’s going out with friends and not being mindful of his money, he could easily blow that much on totally legal food and entertainment- hanging out at diners, seeing movies, going to concerts.  Nothing about spending that much money screams drugs to me.  I’ve seen more 18 year olds overspend than start a drug habit and I know a lot a frigging addicts.  

[Catwoman]

11 minutes ago, TechWife said:

 

 

I think you might have misunderstood my intent. My intent with using the statistics was to support my position that there may not be time to "figure it out later" and that academics shouldn't take precedent over making sure something more serious wasn't going on. If there is something more serious going on, there may not be a "later."  I did not use the statistics to support the idea that I think this young man has serious mental/behavioral health issues. I used them to support my belief that there may not be any time to waste with academics. As I have said repeatedly, I don't know what is going on with this teen. Only the teen, his parents and professionals can figure that out. A legitimate part of figuring it out is considering whether or not there are mental/behavioral health issues in play. Figuring that out is more important than academics, if we are going to rank approaches by priority. As others have wisely said in this thread, the family can address the issue on multiple fronts simultaneously. I don't have an issue with that approach, either. I don't, though, think putting any mental/behavioral health concerns on the back burner for the sake of academics is an appropriate approach for anyone.

 

I know you meant well when you posted. I know you are concerned and that your heart is in the right place. But I stand by my opinion that I think it’s going a bit overboard to suggest that there may not be time to waste with academics if the kid is suicidal or addicted to drugs, when Dawn has never suggested that either of those things is likely to be the case for this particular kid. That’s all I meant. I didn’t mean to insult you, but apparently I did.

As I said earlier, I think we have to agree to disagree on this, because we seem to be talking past each other (again!)

[Pen]

https://psychcentral.com/blog/9-ways-for-adults-with-adhd-to-get-motivated/

more that apply to adults

might fit him better

motiv is likely going to be a lifelong problem due to add, so he’s going to need strategies 

it doesn’t sound like the therapist is helping him with that 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Pen

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, TechWife said:

I just wanted to check in with you to see if you are okay - you seem a little touchy. Tone is so hard to tell in print.

 

Thanks. That was very nice of you. 

I’m okay. I think we are both misreading each other’s intentions today. 

How about if we call a truce? 🙂

[TechWife]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

Thanks. That was very nice of you. 

I’m okay. I think we are both misreading each other’s intentions today. 

How about if we call a truce? 🙂

 

Truce sounds good to me - I didn't mean to start anything, I promise. 🙂

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, Seasider too said:

 

A serious question (as in, please don’t think I’m being snarky, I’m genuinely curious) - how would you have preferred they handle the situation? Would you have failed to graduate without their imposition? 

As a parent now yourself, can you see their action as one driven by concern?

 

My situation was a little different, in that I was not in any danger of not graduating.  I had asked to graduate early because what was left of high school seemed pointless and a waste of time. I had enough credits to graduate early but my parents said no, because "That's not what normal people do" (I still don't understand what that means), and that whether I was bored in school was irrelevant. 

I"m not really sure what drove that action, to be honest, even all these years later.  I would have much preferred they had a conversation with me about what my plans were and how to transition into those plans.  Help me map out a path to my end goal.  Maybe I would have seen that my goal was unrealistic and changed my mind, or maybe I would have been more resolved to achieve my goal.  I don't know how it would have turned out, but that would have been better than accusing me of drug use because I wasn't engaged in school.

[ktgrok]

23 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I know you meant well when you posted. I know you are concerned and that your heart is in the right place. But I stand by my opinion that I think it’s going a bit overboard to suggest that there may not be time to waste with academics if the kid is suicidal or addicted to drugs, when Dawn has never suggested that either of those things is likely to be the case for this particular kid. That’s all I meant. I didn’t mean to insult you, but apparently I did.

As I said earlier, I think we have to agree to disagree on this, because we seem to be talking past each other (again!)

I think the bolded is where things got lost. I think Techmom was saying IF there is something else going on, academics may not be the most important thing. Not that there definitely is something else going on that is more important than academics. Just that they need to be open to the idea, as it can be VERY hard to switch gears like that. 

My son, we had to do exactly that. We had to prioritize mental health over academics. it was a really really hard thing to do. 

As for drugs, etc...yes, a kid going from As to F's, it is a possibility. It's not like parents whose kids are suicidal or drug addicts always know...they often don't. Maybe even usually don't. So the mom not thinking that is the problem doesn't mean it isn't the problem. But still, I'm not saying that IS the problem either, if that makes sense. With my kid, it wasn't drugs, but it was depression/anxiety/ADHD. 

[Pen]

 

3 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

. With my kid, it wasn't drugs, but it was depression/anxiety/ADHD. 

 

Iirc 50% of people with ADHD have anxiety, 30% depression, some both.  

So there’s statistically a good chance that the young man has one of those.  

Not 80% chance as it isn’t additive due to some people having both, but statistically more probable than not.  

Some is caused by feeling a discrepancy between what one “should” be able to do and actual achievement.  

[ktgrok]

8 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

 

Iirc 50% of people with ADHD have anxiety, 30% depression, some both.  

So there’s statistically a good chance that the young man has one of those.  

Not 80% chance as it isn’t additive due to some people having both, but statistically more probable than not.  

Some is caused by feeling a discrepancy between what one “should” be able to do and actual achievement.  

Yes, absolutely. In fact, the stuff I've read recently says that if comorbid with anxiety, treat the ADHD first as the anxiety may go away. People with ADHD often are anxious for good reason - they know they are going to screw up much of the time, and that gives them anxiety. Which makes sense. 

[hippiemamato3]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

She gave me no indication of depression, let alone suicidal and was taken a bit aback when I mentioned pot, but did say she would check into it.  

Funny that she was taken aback at the idea of pot use - but I don't think that would cause the types of issues described here anyway. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Yes, absolutely. In fact, the stuff I've read recently says that if comorbid with anxiety, treat the ADHD first as the anxiety may go away. People with ADHD often are anxious for good reason - they know they are going to screw up much of the time, and that gives them anxiety. Which makes sense. 

 

And with regard to the thread title, if the adhd or add is significant in what is going on, neither punishment nor advice is likely to help the young man. 

[TravelingChris]

 

 

 

On 4/18/2019 at 6:28 PM, DawnM said:

 

I am not going to say I know for sure he isn't depressed, but it sounds like others have determined that.  I would venture to say that part of it is because he still enjoys doing other things, going out with friends, working, etc.....so it isn't that he is clinically depressed.

I

Depression does not mean you cannot enjoy something.  I think what you are thinking about is Major Depression (which is when people are hospitalized and are delusional (in that they think everything is horrible and only see the bad, really cannot comprehend the good in anything) versus what many people have which is milder but still affects their life a lot- things like SAD, less severe depression, and what I get, which is totally related to my autoimmune flares--- more weepy, more anxious, more down-- but not suicidal, not catatonic, definitely can enjoy something but people are dragging still if the have the more minor depression (and minor is simply in regards to the kind where people have to be on heavy duty meds and often get hospitalized.

I do not know where the link is but I know I saw within the last year a piece with photo after photo of people the day or few days before they committed suicide.  They look happy in those photos.  it was an attempt to educate the public that depressed people can either put on a good face or actually have good moments but they  are drowned out by bad ones.

 

[Pen]

Going out with friends and avoidance of schoolwork could be ways of dealing with anxiety feelings...  

[Arcadia]

6 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I do not know where the link is but I know I saw within the last year a piece with photo after photo of people the day or few days before they committed suicide.  They look happy in those photos.  it was an attempt to educate the public that depressed people can either put on a good face or actually have good moments but they  are drowned out by bad ones.

 

A former classmate had smiling depression in 7th and 8th grade (public school gifted program). 

“The definition of smiling depression is: appearing happy to others, literally smiling, while internally suffering with depressive symptoms. Smiling depression often goes undetected. Those suffering from it often discount their own feelings and brush them aside. They might not even be aware of their depression or want to acknowledge their symptoms due to a fear of being considered “weak.”” https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-guest-room/201411/the-secret-life-people-smiling-depression

[Carrie12345]

13 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

Same here. 

Four years of high school down the tubes because the kid flaked out a month before graduation?

Not on my watch!

I can only imagine how frantic those parents must be feeling right now. 

 

I’m still a couple of pages behind on this thread, but...
You don’t *suddenly fail classes. It takes some time to wind up with Fs this far in.  Depending on the grading scale, I’d estimate at least half of the course length for a kid who may have been pulling As in the beginning.  And it’d be pretty hard for parents not to realize it earlier, with the way modern schools update electronic records.

[DawnM]

14 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Maybe the parents need to take some annual leave so they can sit with the lad *during the day,*  and apply the same protein, water and snacks we've done with our littles.

 

That would not be a possibility in this case.  

[DawnM]

33 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I’m still a couple of pages behind on this thread, but...
You don’t *suddenly fail classes. It takes some time to wind up with Fs this far in.  Depending on the grading scale, I’d estimate at least half of the course length for a kid who may have been pulling As in the beginning.  And it’d be pretty hard for parents not to realize it earlier, with the way modern schools update electronic records.

 

They did.  They have been trying everything they know and she was just asking me if there was anything else she hadn't thought of yet.

[Carrie12345]

2 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

They did.  They have been trying everything they know and she was just asking me if there was anything else she hadn't thought of yet.

I figured as much.  I wasn’t trying to be critical, just pointing out that this was no overnight revelation.

[DawnM]

Just now, Carrie12345 said:

I figured as much.  I wasn’t trying to be critical, just pointing out that this was no overnight revelation.

 

They really are good parents.  They have two who have successfully launched.  One has graduated college and the other is graduating next month.   But many of us have at least one who may send us to an early grave!   This one is theirs.

[Carrie12345]

4 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

They really are good parents.  They have two who have successfully launched.  One has graduated college and the other is graduating next month.   But many of us have at least one who may send us to an early grave!   This one is theirs.

No need to defend them to me!  If I believed that good parenting has to result in “traditional” paths, I’d have to call myself a bad parent, lol. I’m one of the people saying that this doesn’t seem like it’s necessarily some great big deal.

[DawnM]

2 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

No need to defend them to me!  If I believed that good parenting has to result in “traditional” paths, I’d have to call myself a bad parent, lol. I’m one of the people saying that this doesn’t seem like it’s necessarily some great big deal.

 

I wasn't really thinking you were, it was more of just a general comment.  

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, DawnM said:

They really are good parents.  They have two who have successfully launched.  One has graduated college and the other is graduating next month.   But many of us have at least one who may send us to an early grave!   This one is theirs.

 

For my aunt, it was the youngest son out of four kids. He just wasn’t into academics so he got Cs and Ds instead of As since 9th grade. He went to get his degree when he was stalled in the promotion path for his sales job. He is very good at sales but the sales manager job needed a degree if he wanted to stay at the company he worked for. For my this cousin it was a case of immaturity, he love spending money, his first marriage was a mess and he won’t listen to anyone’s advice/opinions.

[Scarlett]

13 hours ago, LucyStoner said:

What does he earn?  $8-15 an hour would be the usual range. Say he’s earning ~$200 a week.  Some is going to FICA.  Some of his net is going to 1/2 of the car expenses and gas.  Whatever is left is not really enough to support much of a drug habit unless he’s got some other income.  IME with drugs you most often start to see other issues- like not paying his bills or missing work or selling things to pay for drugs. If he’s going out with friends and not being mindful of his money, he could easily blow that much on totally legal food and entertainment- hanging out at diners, seeing movies, going to concerts.  Nothing about spending that much money screams drugs to me.  I’ve seen more 18 year olds overspend than start a drug habit and I know a lot a frigging addicts.  

Yes, exactly.  My ds19 can spend a lot of money eating out and going to movies.  And he spends a lot of time with his friends.  None of them are doing drugs.  My dss18 does too, and he is currently not doing his high school course work.  He doesn’t want too.  I honestly don’t think he would care if he failed completely.  

[Pen]

10 hours ago, Arcadia said:

 

A former classmate had smiling depression in 7th and 8th grade (public school gifted program). 

“The definition of smiling depression is: appearing happy to others, literally smiling, while internally suffering with depressive symptoms. Smiling depression often goes undetected. Those suffering from it often discount their own feelings and brush them aside. They might not even be aware of their depression or want to acknowledge their symptoms due to a fear of being considered “weak.”” https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-guest-room/201411/the-secret-life-people-smiling-depression

 

There’s also “cognitive behavioral avoidance”—

it can come into play with regard to anxiety or depression and can be specific toward a particular area of life rather than generalized 

for example, if he’s never had to bring up a low grade and doesn’t know how to do that it could result in avoidance of trying 

or if it takes a C to pass and he would not be able to get that, or doesn’t think he would be able to, even if he were to work very hard on school for the last 5 weeks

[Pen]

8 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

They did.  They have been trying everything they know and she was just asking me if there was anything else she hadn't thought of yet.

 

Adhd medication + active adhd coaching (not talk therapy) might help if adhd is a part of this—and if he has add, it probably *is* relevant.  Especially since motivation issues are part of adhd. 

8 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

They really are good parents.  They have two who have successfully launched.  One has graduated college and the other is graduating next month.   But many of us have at least one who may send us to an early grave!   This one is theirs.

 

Perhaps the older kids would have better insight into what might help their brother.

 

[Pen]

 

Highly recommend.

[Pen]

On 4/19/2019 at 7:15 AM, Farrar said:

This thread is a bit fascinating at how all over the place everyone's thinking is.

Assuming that there really isn't more at play here, he doesn't sound like he's got anything more than a case of, as Tanaqui called it, senioritis. Especially since he knows what he wants to do and he wants to get to his "real life" now.

 

The opening post said he has ADHD and EF troubles.  

“Finishing” is a very common ADHD problem.

it is possible that he may succeed in moving on with his trade school at community college idea.

it is also extremely likely that with ADHD he will be good at starting, but not completing such a program 

this isn’t an imposition of some other concept (like suggesting that maybe he’s doing drugs) that wasn’t stated by the op. Difficulty with finishing is an absolutely typical sort of manifestation of ADHD and executive function deficits —a problem the young man is known to have

[Farrar]

8 hours ago, Pen said:

 

The opening post said he has ADHD and EF troubles.  

“Finishing” is a very common ADHD problem.

it is possible that he may succeed in moving on with his trade school at community college idea.

it is also extremely likely that with ADHD he will be good at starting, but not completing such a program 

this isn’t an imposition of some other concept (like suggesting that maybe he’s doing drugs) that wasn’t stated by the op. Difficulty with finishing is an absolutely typical sort of manifestation of ADHD and executive function deficits —a problem the young man is known to have

I understand that. But I also think a student doesn’t get to senior year with those issues without having used supports. And the parents are providing supports and trying to provide more. But the OP says he has no sense of urgency or investment in passing these classes. That could be a cover for fear, but my hunch is that he’s not trying. All the supports in the world won’t work (and since he made it to spring of 12th grade, clearly supports did work in the past) if he doesn’t try or think it’s important.

[Pen]

3 hours ago, Farrar said:

I understand that. But I also think a student doesn’t get to senior year with those issues without having used supports. And the parents are providing supports and trying to provide more. But the OP says he has no sense of urgency or investment in passing these classes. That could be a cover for fear, but my hunch is that he’s not trying. All the supports in the world won’t work (and since he made it to spring of 12th grade, clearly supports did work in the past) if he doesn’t try or think it’s important.

 

“Not trying” is a difficult thing in ADHD, because it can be a symptom of the brain glitch     For some people, if they get the right supports (such as a medication) the ability to try and the ability to think something is important can themselves change. 

Very little indication of supports were given in Op explanation.  He sees a therapist once per week who has “talked” to him.  

Did I miss other ADD supports being given?

Dawn wrote that the school would not give supports now because he made it in the past—pretty much your same way of thinking it seems.  And I get that.  

However, it may or may not be correct

. 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Pen