When you think megachurch

[DawnM]

what is your definition?

Is any church over a certain size a megachurch?

I think of satellite church locations, pastor televised, and numbers above 5,000.   

But my definition may be different than yours.

[marbel]

Funny, I think about 1200.  That's because the last  big church we attended felt like a megachurch and that was the number of people there when we left.  They didn't have satellite locations, and the televising/streaming was limited to overflow rooms in the building.  But other than that church, all my adult life I've gone to churches with 200 or fewer people, so that church seemed huge to me. 

[ktgrok]

I'm bad at estimating numbers (may email my parish to ask how big we are as this keeps coming up and I have no idea, lol), but I think of stadium style seating, Protestant (evangelical of some sort), a cafe in the lobby, fancy lights/production/music just short of pyrotechnics, etc. More show than participatory experience in some ways, usually built up around a particular person/pastor who is the image of the church. 

 

[PrincessMommy]

That is an interesting question!   I think the largest church I ever attended had about 700 members (attendees??).  I never would have considered that a mega-church.  Certainly it's about the numbers, but it seems to me that there's a different feel to a mega-church.  Not sure I can put my finger on what I mean though.   Definitely needing the pastor televised would be a clue.  Multiple pastors- more than 3-4 (senior, worship, youth pastors are norm in many churches).  How approachable is the senior pastor?  That would be a factor to me. 

The other thing I think of when thinking of a mega-church is that it is more "seeker friendly"  which to me (rightly or wrongly) means the message is a bit more watered down.  They don't tend to use a lot of the traditional trappings of churches so as not to offend visitors.  

[Annie G]

Your definition is much like mine. One of the mega churches in our state has multiple locations, but I’ve only been to the main campus. It has a cafe, food court, book store, an entire help ministry that provides things like food, ESL, clothes, job training, transportation, health screenings. They also have a car ministry that takes donated cars and refurbishes them via volunteer mechanics. You can of course watch their services on tv, and they have a TON of events (My nephew was an event coordinator for a few years and the events are mind boggling)  To me it feels like the church is an entire town...they have it all!!

Currently this church has more than 50 open job opportunities.  Wow!

Mega churches appeal to a lot of people but as an introvert it’s just too much for me.  Too many activities and too many people and I feel unknown. <— unsolicited commentary that is my opinion only, not meant to offend.

I suspect that when I move into an area that has a large church with a thousand attending every week that I’ll consider that a mega church.  But for now, Willow Creek is really all I know about mega churches. 

[MaeFlowers]

I would mostly agree with ktgrok. I would also include in my definition that they must offer tons of programs and be raking in the cash. 

[LarlaB]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

what is your definition?

Is any church over a certain size a megachurch?

I think of satellite church locations, pastor televised, and numbers above 5,000.   

But my definition may be different than yours.

 

All of those things with the exception of any church over 2000.

Multiple services where 99% of the attendees doesn’t know each other is another criteria....- if you shook things up and made everyone attend a different service, they wouldn’t know more ham a handful.

DH is a former pastor of small groups and when we started interning at the church there were 400attending. Roughly 10 years later when we resigned and left the church, there were 2700-3000 attending and DH had 200 small group leaders.  He was the pastor of small groups which meant he pastored a church within a church- the leaders.  Today, that church attendance is well over 5000.  It’s a multi campus, multi ethnic, Sr Pastor oriented church but it is NOT a spectator sport, worship style wise.  

Ive been to smaller churches that have spectator style worship- that’s a “thing” in contemporary churches no matter the size but less awkward in a larger setting.  

I also attended a 10000 person church in KY for a few years.  It had smoke and lights every Sunday morning.  Good people but not my style.

IMHO, mega churches can only be healthy if people engage and get connected- other wise they are spectators and eventually disappear and no one knows.  But it’s better than nothing.  And that’s a rabbit trail. 

Edited April 23, 2018 by LarlaB
Typing with thumbs on phone

[Ellie]

Any church over a 2000. Now, if you add "seeker-friendly," then there are some other parameters (e.g., smoke and lights, sermons with little substance because it's all about the feels). :-) But 2000 attendees makes it a mega-church.

[MaeFlowers]

22 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

That’s generally my stereotypical image too. Also likely includes an administration structure that is as much a business as it is a place of worship. 

 

This is it. When I think megachurch, I think of a business and not a church.

[gardenmom5]

we have one in town I consider mega church- and televising isn't required.  and it's probably closer to 2000 - 3000 for a single meeting every sunday.

it's when you have to have a huge hall for one congregation to meet at a time. as the congregation grows - they keep adding to the building for the same meeting time, instead of dividing the group. where there are so many people you can't possibly be acquainted  with even half.

[Bluegoat]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

I'm bad at estimating numbers (may email my parish to ask how big we are as this keeps coming up and I have no idea, lol), but I think of stadium style seating, Protestant (evangelical of some sort), a cafe in the lobby, fancy lights/production/music just short of pyrotechnics, etc. More show than participatory experience in some ways, usually built up around a particular person/pastor who is the image of the church. 

 

 

These are a lot of the same things I think of.  With a very large congregation, maybe approaching 1000.

I don't really think of a cathedral in a major city as a megachurch, even though it might be very large and have lots of people who go there.

[ktgrok]

34 minutes ago, Ellie said:

Any church over a 2000. Now, if you add "seeker-friendly," then there are some other parameters (e.g., smoke and lights, sermons with little substance because it's all about the feels). :-) But 2000 attendees makes it a mega-church.

 

Hmm....my parish has (just found out) 3,700 families that attend. So figure average of two people per family at least. That's pretty big, but I wouldn't consider it a megachurch. It's a traditional Catholic church, with 5 services. I guess its more than size to me. 

[J-rap]

I tend to think more of the building itself -- one that has lots of screens and stadium seating and an espresso counter in the lobby.  :)  I've attended large cathedrals on occasion and even if they are packed with several thousand people in them, I wouldn't consider them a mega church.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, J-rap said:

I tend to think more of the building itself -- one that has lots of screens and stadium seating and an espresso counter in the lobby.  :)  I've attended large cathedrals on occasion and even if they are packed with several thousand people in them, I wouldn't consider them a mega church.

Same. 

This is my image of a mega church. 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Arctic Mama said:

I think weak, insipid theology and satellite campuses or a cult of personality pastor.  Like Joel Osteen or Steven Furtick.

 

Yes, cult of personality is a large part of it for me. 

[Dmmetler]

I’d also add-a campus that looks more like a college than a church, with lots of extras, 

My local school district is able to do it’s big beginning of year, every teacher and administrator in the district rally at a megachurch, with room to spare. The other option is the NBA basketball arena. 

[umsami]

I think over 5,000.

My Mom attended a big one in Orlando that had satellite branches.  Their weekly bulletin was a newspaper and there was so much going on.  It was incredible....and probably extremely supportive to the congregation.  

 

in most places I've lived, we're lucky if we get 200 people at a mosque. :D  There's usually just one in the city.  Last place, had 20-30 people.  Of course, the mosques in Muslim countries regular hold thousands of worshipers.  

[brehon]

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I'm bad at estimating numbers (may email my parish to ask how big we are as this keeps coming up and I have no idea, lol), but I think of stadium style seating, Protestant (evangelical of some sort), a cafe in the lobby, fancy lights/production/music just short of pyrotechnics, etc. More show than participatory experience in some ways, usually built up around a particular person/pastor who is the image of the church. 

 

I tend to agree with these stereotypes. Certainly a Cathedral or Basilica can be large and hundreds+ people could attend for any given Mass, but I would never call a Catholic or Orthodox church a mega church. I mean, Notre Dame or York Minster just don’t scream mega church to me. 

My parish has overflow Masses for Christmas, Triduum, and Easter. The numbers aren’t in the thousands, though. Low hundreds, I’d guess. 

[DawnM]

12 minutes ago, brehon said:

I tend to agree with these stereotypes. Certainly a Cathedral or Basilica can be large and hundreds+ people could attend for any given Mass, but I would never call a Catholic or Orthodox church a mega church. I mean, Notre Dame or York Minster just don’t scream mega church to me. 

My parish has overflow Masses for Christmas, Triduum, and Easter. The numbers aren’t in the thousands, though. Low hundreds, I’d guess. 

 

I wonder if part of the difference, at least within the Catholic church, is that everyone is encouraged to attend your local perish, and the liturgy and homily are the same in every perish?  At least that is what I have been told, I haven't attended more than a handful of Catholic Masses, so forgive me if I am incorrect.

 

Where the protestant churches tends to have their own sermons and styles, and the "popular" ones can be as showy as they wish.

I am finding a huge disconnect right now for myself within the Evangelical church, but because of my kids, we aren't jumping ship yet.  We will be changing churches in the next few months and going where my now 8th grader wants to go, which is fine, closer to home, no Sunday School, so just service and leave, and I doubt I will get very involved.  My desire to serve at church has gone from 100-0 in the last few years.  Burnt out, frustrated, and a not aligning with some of the church's teaching, etc.....but that is for a whole 'nother post.  

[Mergath]

I think the size of the pastor's house is part of it, too. The megachurch pastors I've heard of always seem to be wealthy and live in a megahouse. ;) The private jet is optional, though.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, DawnM said:

 

I wonder if part of the difference, at least within the Catholic church, is that everyone is encouraged to attend your local perish, and the liturgy and homily are the same in every perish?  At least that is what I have been told, I haven't attended more than a handful of Catholic Masses, so forgive me if I am incorrect.

 

The liturgy and scripture readings are the same and the homily will be based on the scripture, but each priest writes his own.

[DawnM]

2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

The liturgy and scripture readings are the same and the homily will be based on the scripture, but each priest writes his own.

 

Gotcha.  That clarifies that.  Thanks.

[PrincessMommy]

18 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

The liturgy and scripture readings are the same and the homily will be based on the scripture, but each priest writes his own.

 

Same with Orthodox

I agree with those who said that Mega-Church is a Evangelical Protestant phenomenon and has more to do with the structure and service type rather than just a number (although lots of people is a given).   I don't think there are Lutheran or Presbyterian Mega-churches- but I could def. be wrong. 

[kbutton]

For fun, but they don't list all the measures they use: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_megachurches_in_the_United_States

When I think megachurch, I think of it as having a specific culture, not just size. We currently attend a large church that is probably more welcoming than many small churches. It takes some work to be connected, but we worked and worked to be connected in a previous small church as well (and were less successful by a long shot). I think megachurches really do function more like a multi-level organization, and while bigger churches have some aspects of that, they still foster a "whole church" dynamic as much and as extensively as possible while realizing that they will be large enough for some people to come and go without connection (often because those people want to). 

I think a megachurch is going to have many "core" subgroups and layers of relationships, while non-megachurch will still have a core group that tries to connect with everyone (paid staff, volunteer staff in specific ministries, etc.) and activities that are assumed to be totally inclusive (in our case, family dinner midweek prior to things like Awana, youth, choir practice; monthly events that are open to all or open to, say, all the men, all the women, etc.). If everyone in our church actually showed up to every family dinner, we'd actually have to tweak things, but it's open to all. I think that's the case with all but the smallest church's events though.

[Spy Car]

If the goings on the inside make me wonder when Jesus is going to show up with a whip, it is then that I think "mega-church."

Bill

 

 

[SamanthaCarter]

I’d say over 1000 in attendence on any given Sunday, televised services or available on streaming, regular nationally known speakers for conference or special service. Glitzy children’s programming, and lots of segregating based on age. A church can have some of the above with being “megachurch.”

[PrincessMommy]

11 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

If the goings on the inside make me wonder when Jesus is going to show up with a whip, it is then that I think "mega-church."

Bill

 

 

 

While I think that's pretty funny... I don't think mega churches have a monopoly on questionable behavior/culture.  

[Spy Car]

1 minute ago, PrincessMommy said:

 

While I think that's pretty funny... I don't think mega churches have a monopoly on questionable behavior/culture.  

A monopoly on questionable behavior? Heavens no.

A near-monopoly on money-changing in the temple? Pretty much.

Bill

 

 

[Carrie12345]

Huh. I never thought in terms of numbers, which I now realize is pretty silly. 

To me, it was a matter of "stage" vs. "altar". And the inclusion of screens.  But I grew up in a church where 40 people was a good turn out for an 8am service, so anything bigger seems "mega".

[dirty ethel rackham]

3 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

 

Hmm....my parish has (just found out) 3,700 families that attend. So figure average of two people per family at least. That's pretty big, but I wouldn't consider it a megachurch. It's a traditional Catholic church, with 5 services. I guess its more than size to me. 

Yep.  Our Catholic parish has upward of 4000 registered families.  Our church isn't all that traditional looking (parish founded in 1963, but didn't build a separate church building until the 90s.  They built a school first.)  I don't think of Catholic churches as megachurches.  I like what you said about cult of personality and it being more of a show.  

[Wheres Toto]

9 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I'm bad at estimating numbers (may email my parish to ask how big we are as this keeps coming up and I have no idea, lol), but I think of stadium style seating, Protestant (evangelical of some sort), a cafe in the lobby, fancy lights/production/music just short of pyrotechnics, etc. More show than participatory experience in some ways, usually built up around a particular person/pastor who is the image of the church. 

 

 

7 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

I think weak, insipid theology and satellite campuses or a cult of personality pastor.  Like Joel Osteen or Steven Furtick.

 

I agree with Ktgrok and Arctic Mama.  Mega-Church makes me think of the huge, spectator show type churches, usually run by a somewhat famous, wealthy, charismatic leader putting on a show.  It has a negative connotation to me.

I don't think of Catholic churches, no matter how large, as Mega Churches.

[6packofun]

12 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

 

Hmm....my parish has (just found out) 3,700 families that attend. So figure average of two people per family at least. That's pretty big, but I wouldn't consider it a megachurch. It's a traditional Catholic church, with 5 services. I guess its more than size to me. 

 

I agree.  We have 4 services and I certainly don't know many of the people, but there are ways of creating communities within the community that just don't make it seem excessive to me.  We have very few programs but a lot of groups for study and serving with a common purpose, which I like.  We send out many missionaries and that is so satisfying.  It just seems to grow smaller the longer I attend for some reason.  LOL (Of course, we have our issues, too, from being larger.  You just trade issues, IMO, depending on size and other factors.)

[Ellie]

12 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

 

Hmm....my parish has (just found out) 3,700 families that attend. So figure average of two people per family at least. That's pretty big, but I wouldn't consider it a megachurch. It's a traditional Catholic church, with 5 services. I guess its more than size to me. 

"Megachurch" specifically refers to size; any church with 2000 people is a megachurch. :-)

I also attend a Catholic megachurch; we have about 6,000 families. :-)

[ktgrok]

8 minutes ago, Ellie said:

"Megachurch" specifically refers to size; any church with 2000 people is a megachurch. :-)

I also attend a Catholic megachurch; we have about 6,000 families. :-)

Looks like there are various definitions, most do not include a typical large Catholic church. 

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/megachurch

[JennyD]

These numbers are blowing my mind.  Our synagogue has something like 180 families.  Last year we visited a synagogue out in L.A. that has about 1500 families -- it's one of the largest in the country of our denomination.  They have multiple services every Saturday morning, an attached school, and loads of events and classes each month.   We had never seen anything like it before and I have been describing the place to people as "like a megachurch," but clearly I have had no idea what I've been talking about.  

 

[Ellie]

17 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Looks like there are various definitions, most do not include a typical large Catholic church. 

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/megachurch

See, I usually include those other things under "seeker-friendly mega-church." Long ago, "mega-church" just referred to the number of people who attended. I have attended Assemblies of God which were over 1000 people but was definitely not seeker-friendly (to me, "seeker friendly" is not a compliment).

[Bluegoat]

8 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

 Fifty-ish families in our parish, one full time and very busy priest.  I don’t think an active Orthodox parish can get tooooo big because of the intensity of the involvement with liturgies through the week, confession, catechesis, and so on.   

I went to a large Presbyterian Church for 17 years prior to becoming Orthodox and never thought of it as a megachurch because it had liturgically structured Sunday services and was part of a larger denomination.   Even though the senior pastor was a great preacher, the church existed before he came, and continued to exist after he left, and wasn’t built around him or his personality   And there were about 40,000 ways to connect into smaller groups and that was something that made it “smaller.”  

But reading the thread I see that for some, the definition is based mostly on size so it might have been mega.  

 

I've known a few people who belonged to enormous Orthodox parishes.  One in Moscow, the other in the US.  She told me that it took over an hour for everyone in the parish just to take communion. In both cases there was more than one priest.

[poppy]

This probably isn't fair but when I think mega-church, I think of  a theological approach that demands very little thinking and the goal is making you feel validated and better than non members  (or as they'd say "grateful" that you aren't ignorant like others).

[Bluegoat]

13 minutes ago, poppy said:

This probably isn't fair but when I think mega-church, I think of  a theological approach that demands very little thinking and the goal is making you feel validated and better than non members  (or as they'd say "grateful" that you aren't ignorant like others).

 

My dad goes to a church that is small, but the larger group they are associated with has megachurches. (Where he is the town has 900 people so not much chance of a mega-anything.)

Their theology does have that sense that they don't want people to have to think too much though.  They seem to think that for people to connect it has to be simple and easy, with familiar trappings like bland pop music. 

I think it's always a danger for a group bound together by ideology to tend to feel they are somehow better or more enlightened though.  It's something they almost need to explicitly combat if it isn't wanted.

[DawnM]

21 minutes ago, poppy said:

This probably isn't fair but when I think mega-church, I think of  a theological approach that demands very little thinking and the goal is making you feel validated and better than non members  (or as they'd say "grateful" that you aren't ignorant like others).

 

I think that can be fair.  It depends on the church I am sure though.

[Jyhwkmama]

I think of TV screens, stadium seating, domination by a pastor's personality, and dramatic lighting.

Barbara Bush's funeral was in the largest Episcopalian church in the US (I think), but it did not give me a "mega church" vibe from what I saw of it on TV.