"comfort dogs" . . .

[gardenmom5]

person b says "I've got to get a certificate for my dog so I can take it with me everywhere I go".  (person b is not disabled.  does not have a developmental disorder, or mental health disorder.)

 

person a says "people doing that because they want to take their dog everywhere with them is hurting those with legitimate service dogs/needs".

 

person b "I don't care.  this dog performs a legitimate service."  - person b doesn't have any legal disability for which service/comfort dogs are used.  

 

"other than" being very territorial around other dogs and sometimes people (which is why the deceased previous owner's daughter got rid of the dog), dog is generally a well-behaved dog and rarely barks - person b  diligently control it in public.   takes it everywhere. (except church - it's not an actual service dog, it's not allowed.)

 

[Tsuga]

"I'm sorry ma'am, narcissists are not a protected class."

 

 

 

 

(I should note that I'm taking OP at face value--I definitely know people who have needed comfort dogs, however, they have no problem obtaining certificates and aren't the type to complain about hoops. Whereas I also know narcissists who would be just the type to whine about something that, if they had a legitimate disability, would be extremely easy to do and the least of their problems!)

Edited February 6, 2018 by Tsuga

[SKL]

Well, the other day I read something about a comfort peacock not being allowed on a plane.

 

I tend to be skeptical of this recent trend of comfort animals.  Especially since I know at least one person who is lying about the "need" for it.

[katilac]

I laughed at Tsuga's reply, but in reality I would be hesitant to decide that someone doesn't have a legitimate need for an emotional support animal. An actual service dog, if you know the person you pretty much know if they need it, but ESAs are used for people with mental health issues. You can't really dx someone as having or not having a mental health issue. 

 

If you're asking what to say to them, I wouldn't say anything. Let their doctor sort it out. 

[gaillardia]

what is your point in creating this thread, gardenmom5?

People are making stuff up and you can get "certifications" for "service" or "comfort" animals. It is basically worthless because there are certain laws that have to be adhered to in regards to so-called service animals.

For instance:

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/texas-laws-on-service-dogs-and-emotional-support-animals.html

 

What type of assistance does this animal provide? is the key question for anyone faced with a situation where there is a questionable service animal. 

 

 

 

[kiwik]

I love the idea of a comfort peacock though. I can't think of many things less soothing than a peacocks shrieks - maybe a comfort hippo - that would limit travel surely?

[Tanaqui]

Comfort dogs are not covered by the ADA - and those animals which are covered lose that coverage if they are uncontrolled or ill-behaved.

 

However, if somebody tells me they feel they need to bring their animal with them in order to feel safe and secure, then so long as that animal is well-behaved, I won't say a word. It's not my place to decide what their emotional needs are... and unless they're bringing that animal into my house, it's not my place to allow or ban it either.

 

When I'm judgmental about things like this I feel really good for about five minutes - and then really bad for about five *days*. It's not worth it, especially if I also make the other person feel bad. I mean, really, why should I care? It's no skin off my nose.

[Tsuga]

Comfort dogs are not covered by the ADA - and those animals which are covered lose that coverage if they are uncontrolled or ill-behaved.

 

However, if somebody tells me they feel they need to bring their animal with them in order to feel safe and secure, then so long as that animal is well-behaved, I won't say a word. It's not my place to decide what their emotional needs are... and unless they're bringing that animal into my house, it's not my place to allow or ban it either.

 

When I'm judgmental about things like this I feel really good for about five minutes - and then really bad for about five *days*. It's not worth it, especially if I also make the other person feel bad. I mean, really, why should I care? It's no skin off my nose.

 

I thought she was talking about the behavior that leads people to bring dogs into places where they would otherwise not be welcome or allowed by law (schools, grocery stores, etc.) and then complain that they had to get a certification, a flimsy one at that, to do so.

 

And it does bother me when people break rules, not because I begrudge anyone comfort, but because that privilege does not extend to all. If you truly need a service animal it's a service animal.

[maize]

Emotional support animals do not have the same legal status as service animals, certificate or no certificate.

[ThisIsTheDay]

Watched this unfold on FB, with person B wanting to take her dog everywhere.

 

Person B: I want to take my dog everywhere. It is my comfort dog.

 

Person C: You can get a certificate from this person in the next town.

 

Person A: But you don't NEED this, this is harmful to people who really need therapy pets.

 

Person D, E, F, G, H: You are so mean. She wants a dog, why can't you just support her or shut up?

 

Person B: I do too need to take him everywhere. I love him and want him with me. You should have my back or you're not my friend.

 

Within a week, Person B had a certificate (shared on FB of course) and had ordered a THERAPY DOG vest online. She began taking dog everywhere. Occasionally would post how certain businesses were cool--or not--depending on their response to her therapy dog.

 

Let's leave it with Person B certainly has other issues, but none of them involve a valid need for a therapy dog.

[Laura Corin]

Airline news: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42951508

[PrincessMommy]

I can't link on my tablet but did anyone read the nyt oped about this topic as it related to the peacock? It was either yesterday or sunday.

 

The comments section unfolded almost exactly as thisistheday described....at least on fb comments it did.

[Pawz4me]

I'm as against the mis-use of "comfort dogs" as just about anyone you can imagine.

 

OTOH I can't figure it out. I take my dog out and about to places pets are allowed because he needs some mental stimulation and socialization outside of our home and beyond our neighborhood. Those outings are specifically for him, not when I really need to shop or accomplish anything. We travel with him (we have an RV) because I don't trust any kennel or pet sitter enough to leave him. 

 

But it's not easy being out and about with a dog. It's like having a toddler along--you always have to pay attention, you have to consider their needs above your own, you have to make sure you have plenty of poop bags, some extra water, etc.. So part of me is inclined to give these "comfort" people a wee bit of the benefit of the doubt, because I figure they really must need something from that pet to deal with the extra hassle. We love our dog (see above about traveling with him), but I don't particularly want him with me when I'm eating a nice meal out or shopping.

 

Not that I'm excusing the abuse of it at all.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Been seeing some of that lately now that people have been talking about it.  Saw a woman with two "service" dogs in Walmart.  She had them in the cart and they were barking and jumping like crazy.  I would have assumed service dogs would behave better than that.

[snowbeltmom]

This is a snippet from Laura's posted link up-thread:

From next month, Delta will also be stepping up efforts to "protect" its passengers, after an 84% increase in on-board animal "incidents".

 

"A statement from the airline says this is because of "serious safety risks involving untrained animals in flight".

 

The airline says it will continue to carry about 250,000 guide dogs or other service animals each year.

 

But Delta has faced requests to carry "comfort turkeys", possums and snakes. And it says staff have faced biting, growling and barking animals, as well as urination and defecation.

 

Virgin Atlantic says that it only allows dogs to be carried as emotional support pets.

 

British Airways, meanwhile, says that it has had no increase in requests - because it doesn't allow passengers to bring any emotional support animals on board."

 

I think British Airways has the right idea.

[AmandaVT]

Emotional support animals do not have the same legal status as service animals, certificate or no certificate.

 

But people lie about them. Under ADA rules, business owners are only allowed to ask if the animal is a service animal and what has the animal been trained to do. That's it. I know someone who bought a vest for his dog and took it everywhere because he didn't want to be without him. Then, when asked, told people he was a trained service animal and was trained to help with his PTSD. Untrue, but there's no way to verify. 

 

We've had this come up a few times in the therapy office I work at. It sounds all well and good to bring in your emotional support dog,  but what if the client before you has a dog phobia? Or has trauma from being attacked by a dog? Actual service dogs have been well-trained to stay with their owner but emotional support animals haven't had training. So they'll run around, poop inside, bark, etc. People with emotional support animals are doing a disservice to those who actually have a trained service dog for PTSD, Epilepsy, etc. I am all for real service dogs though.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Nice.  I want a comfort turkey. 

[Word Nerd]

Well, the other day I read something about a comfort peacock not being allowed on a plane.

 

I tend to be skeptical of this recent trend of comfort animals. Especially since I know at least one person who is lying about the "need" for it.

The peacock’s owner is also a performance artist.

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by Word Nerd

[Ravin]

person b says "I've got to get a certificate for my dog so I can take it with me everywhere I go".  (person b is not disabled.  does not have a developmental disorder, or mental health disorder.)

 

person a says "people doing that because they want to take their dog everywhere with them is hurting those with legitimate service dogs/needs".

 

person b "I don't care.  this dog performs a legitimate service."  - person b doesn't have any legal disability for which service/comfort dogs are used.  

 

"other than" being very territorial around other dogs and sometimes people (which is why the deceased previous owner's daughter got rid of the dog), dog is generally a well-behaved dog and rarely barks - person b  diligently control it in public.   takes it everywhere. (except church - it's not an actual service dog, it's not allowed.)

 

Emotional support animals only get a pass for air travel and for being kept in a home where ordinarily pets aren't allowed, and there does have to be a documentable need for it (mental health, developmental, whatever). They are NOT service animals because they do not do any trained or active service actions for their owner. The person who thinks that 1. they can get their pet made an emotional support animal when they don't have a documentable need for one, and 2. that ESAs get all-access the way service dogs do...is clueless and needs to be corrected at every opportunity.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Ravin

[Ravin]

Watched this unfold on FB, with person B wanting to take her dog everywhere.

 

Person B: I want to take my dog everywhere. It is my comfort dog.

 

Person C: You can get a certificate from this person in the next town.

 

Person A: But you don't NEED this, this is harmful to people who really need therapy pets.

 

Person D, E, F, G, H: You are so mean. She wants a dog, why can't you just support her or shut up?

 

Person B: I do too need to take him everywhere. I love him and want him with me. You should have my back or you're not my friend.

 

Within a week, Person B had a certificate (shared on FB of course) and had ordered a THERAPY DOG vest online. She began taking dog everywhere. Occasionally would post how certain businesses were cool--or not--depending on their response to her therapy dog.

 

Let's leave it with Person B certainly has other issues, but none of them involve a valid need for a therapy dog.

Therapy dogs are not emotional support animals OR service dogs. Therapy animals are the ones you'll find in therapists' offices or brought to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. to interact with those who benefit from the interaction as a form of THERAPY. They are not usually owned by those to whom they provide therapy, as opposed to emotional support animals and service dogs, who are live-in companions.

 

Good grief.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Ravin

[Annie G]

Been seeing some of that lately now that people have been talking about it.  Saw a woman with two "service" dogs in Walmart.  She had them in the cart and they were barking and jumping like crazy.  I would have assumed service dogs would behave better than that.

 

Walking into Walmart Friday morning I saw an employee posting a new sign on the interior doors. It said that dogs are not allowed in carts...something about health reasons.   So it's not just your store...it's an issue here, too. 

 

But dogs that don't behave will now be on the floor instead of contained in a cart. Not a whole lot of improvement. I think I prefer the people I saw at Best Buy a few weeks ago- their dog was in a stroller. Contained, but not in a cart where my grandkids or lettuce is going to be. 

[gardenmom5]

what is your point in creating this thread, gardenmom5?

People are making stuff up and you can get "certifications" for "service" or "comfort" animals. It is basically worthless because there are certain laws that have to be adhered to in regards to so-called service animals.

For instance:

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/texas-laws-on-service-dogs-and-emotional-support-animals.html

 

What type of assistance does this animal provide? is the key question for anyone faced with a situation where there is a questionable service animal.

 

my point for starting the thread was a reality check.  - not the right word, but the general idea.  I had this conversation in person a few days ago - and it's just been bugging me.

 

I'm fed up with people bringing their "pets" places and calling it a service dog.   (I know there are differences - I've notice those who are bringing fifi/fido everywhere dont' know the differences.  they also don't care.)  or a comfort dog, etc.  and I've seen people bringing their pets places for 35 years - it's just getting more frequent and now they're lying about it being a "comfort/esa" etc. to get away with it.).   they think they are more important than others - including people with allergies, or phobias. (dudeling was deathly afraid of dogs when he was younger.)

 

I did NOT tell this person she could go online and buy fake stuff.  (or even that it was available.) no way jose.  because she would.  

 

I'm not sure if I want to ask her "what service does the dog provide" to give her time to think about that.   the person is a relative and takes her dog e.v.e.r.y.w.h.e.r.e.  other relatives have been less tolerant of her bringing her dog with her when she visits them.  (her dd gave her an ultimatum - you can come, but not your dog.)

she's allowed a dog in her condo - so that isn't her problem.   she takes it to stores - and other people's homes.  

 

I allowed my mother to bring her dog to my house -  (uber calm dog actually helped dudeling calm down around dogs.   mother didn't take her dog shopping), she brings it here.   I guess it's starting to bug me.  I have leather sofas - so it's not like cloth - but I'm starting to get annoyed the dog immediately jumps on my furniture.  I've had GSDs, they did NOT go on the furniture.  

 

i object to the entitlement attitude. very unbecoming an adult.

 

I love the idea of a comfort peacock though. I can't think of many things less soothing than a peacocks shrieks - maybe a comfort hippo - that would limit travel surely?

 

tbh: I miss the peacocks at that used to be at the park near me.  I could hear them in the summer when my windows were open.

 

Comfort dogs are not covered by the ADA - and those animals which are covered lose that coverage if they are uncontrolled or ill-behaved.

 

However, if somebody tells me they feel they need to bring their animal with them in order to feel safe and secure, then so long as that animal is well-behaved, I won't say a word. It's not my place to decide what their emotional needs are... and unless they're bringing that animal into my house, it's not my place to allow or ban it either.

 

When I'm judgmental about things like this I feel really good for about five minutes - and then really bad for about five *days*. It's not worth it, especially if I also make the other person feel bad. I mean, really, why should I care? It's no skin off my nose.

 

I don't want to go places with this woman anymore (so I don't) - because the dog comes too.  there can be signs that say NO DOGS, NO PETS - she doesn't care, she brings it anyway.

 

tbh: I could see her try to bring it to the zoo . . . .oh, maybe we could get a NG show during the raptor demonstration . . . .(the duck that was watching, decided to get the heck out of dodge before it became dinner.  and there was a nesting pair of eagles right outside the zoo that would fly past at the same time.)

 

 

But people lie about them. Under ADA rules, business owners are only allowed to ask if the animal is a service animal and what has the animal been trained to do. That's it. I know someone who bought a vest for his dog and took it everywhere because he didn't want to be without him. Then, when asked, told people he was a trained service animal and was trained to help with his PTSD. Untrue, but there's no way to verify. 

 

We've had this come up a few times in the therapy office I work at. It sounds all well and good to bring in your emotional support dog,  but what if the client before you has a dog phobia? Or has trauma from being attacked by a dog? Actual service dogs have been well-trained to stay with their owner but emotional support animals haven't had training. So they'll run around, poop inside, bark, etc. People with emotional support animals are doing a disservice to those who actually have a trained service dog for PTSD, Epilepsy, etc. I am all for real service dogs though.

 

I know this person well -   it's an older woman who just refuses to be separated from fido.  fido isn't a legit emotional service dog. of any kind.

ds's gf has a legit service dog - she has epilepsy. I figure one days it's going to come down to banning fido or having both dogs in my house.  and I WILL ban fido (he get's territorial around other dogs) from being here the same time as ds's gf.

[gardenmom5]

Walking into Walmart Friday morning I saw an employee posting a new sign on the interior doors. It said that dogs are not allowed in carts...something about health reasons.   So it's not just your store...it's an issue here, too. 

 

But dogs that don't behave will now be on the floor instead of contained in a cart. Not a whole lot of improvement. I think I prefer the people I saw at Best Buy a few weeks ago- their dog was in a stroller. Contained, but not in a cart where my grandkids or lettuce is going to be. 

 

maybe they're hoping people won't bring their dog in the store if they actually have to leash it or carry it.

[Annie G]

maybe they're hoping people won't bring their dog in the store if they actually have to leash it or carry it.

 

That might be it. I haven't seen a big dog in a cart there, but I've seen a lot of small dogs in the part where kids sit. 

[snowbeltmom]

maybe they're hoping people won't bring their dog in the store if they actually have to leash it or carry it.

My bet is that these people won't follow the leash law, either, because their dogs are better behaved than your typical dog and so friendly that a leash is not necessary. Frankly, I am sick of many of the dog owners in my area. Too many people are treating their dogs like they are children and expect the rest of us to not mind when their "friendly" dog runs full speed to great us as we are walking on the public trails.

 

I hope that they start cracking down on these self-entitled morons who are lying and putting service vests on their dogs. You should have to provide proof of service dog ownership before you are able to purchase a vest.

[katilac]

 

tbh: I could see her try to bring it to the zoo . . . .oh, maybe we could get a NG show during the raptor demonstration . . . .(the duck that was watching, decided to get the heck out of dodge before it became dinner.  and there was a nesting pair of eagles right outside the zoo that would fly past at the same time.)

 

 

I used to volunteer at a local nature preserve that has lots of alligators. The alligators can, and do, go very near the trails, cross the trails, and even sprawl across the trails for a bit of sunbathing. The preserve is their home and humans are visitors. 

 

The number of people who were indignant at dogs not being allowed was unreal, even when you tried to explain that it was also for the dog's benefit, because an alligator could, y'know, eat it. And also their small children. Alligators don't normally view humans as prey, particularly on land and with adults nearby, but a small dog jumping and yapping next to the stroller can definitely confuse the issue. 

 

People would still be mad, like, why aren't you changing reality for me? 

 

These tended to be the same people who didn't realize that yes, national parks have law enforcement rangers, and they are federal agents who carry guns and can arrest you.  :rolleyes:

[SKL]

Seems to me there is some reason why dogs have been banned from a lot of places in the first place.  Was that just overkill or is there still a reason we don't want dogs in the grocery store, emergency room, corporate office?

 

Funny story though ... I normally work at home, but we own an office building in which we have an office.  One day all the other partners were out of town, and our usual office admin was off, so I had to be present at the office. 

 

I got to the office to find a nonprofit board meeting going on, and a fluffy white dog in the middle of the floor.  I assume it's the pet of some elderly eccentric board member, and go about my business.  The meeting ends, the people leave, the dog is still there.  I send an email to all my colleagues, "anyone know why there is a dog in the office?"  Our admin replies, oh yeah, I promised to dog-sit today, the owner will come and get the dog later.

 

Hours go by, and I'm wondering how often this dog needs to go out and pee.  The dog is looking at me with those begging eyes.  No leash in sight.  I'm really not appreciating this.  Eventually the owner comes and gets his dog.  Turns out this dog is kept in the office building pretty much all the time - nobody is quite sure whether it's legal or not.  :/

[Annie G]

Seems to me there is some reason why dogs have been banned from a lot of places in the first place.  

When I was a kid people just didn't bring their dogs to stores and stuff.  I don't think places had to even decide whether to allow dogs or not until fairly recently. 

 

The first time I noticed a dog in a store was around 2012. I know because I was working there and management had to train us on what we could and couldn't ask the owners. I had noticed seeing eye dogs and other such dogs in public before, but that's when I first started seeing pets being brought in- both on leashes and in purse like carriers. 

 

When did comfort animals/emotional support animals come into being?

[bolt.]

My visually impaired friend has faced many more requests for his service dog ID recently. (Outside of America regulations vary -- in my province ID is required for guide dogs and other certified support animals.)

 

Although the man is obviously blind and the dog has a proper guide dog harness, he thinks the issue might be that he doesn't put the dog in a distinctive vest. It's also because more and more *selfish* people (without a shred of integrity or empathy) get an emotional boost from their pets (Of course they do! That's why humans have pets!) are committing service animal fraud.

 

They play the part of a disabled person -- who can't have a normal life or operate in public without assistance -- casually flaunting the privilege of being "able" in the world, and securing special treatment in addition!

 

Who gets hurt? Disabled people end up being confronted and irritated because of fraudsters. They have to expend additional effort (in their already overly-challenging lives) to compensate for the misbehaviour of people of privilege.

 

What efforts? It requires sighted help for him to apply for the ID card, and the card has no tactile features -- making it difficult for him to keep track of and produce on demand. He must explain himself, excuse himself, endure patronizing inquiries and infanilizing approaches that make his rights sound (and feel) like he is asking permission. Every waitress and mall cop, or even passers by feel free to stop him and demand that he show them ID. It's galling.

 

I don't see how so many people fail to recognize the ethical implications of their actions.

[katilac]

 Turns out this dog is kept in the office building pretty much all the time - nobody is quite sure whether it's legal or not.  :/

 

Oh, I'm sure it's legal, it's usually restaurants and such that are addressed in the law.  

 

My doctor usually has her dog at the office. I'm usually a cat person, but this dog is the most chill, adorable piece of fluff I have ever seen. She roams freely unless a patient requests otherwise, and then they just tell her to go to her office. Yes, the dog has her own office  :lol:

[Crimson Wife]

I think it is FAR past time for requiring official registration of service animals the way the government regulates disabled placards/license plates. As much as I had government red tape, the current system is being abused. If you cannot get your physician/licensed mental health clinician to sign off on a letter documenting your disability and need for a service animal to bring it along with proof of service animal training from a legitimate organization down to your local Animal Control, then you need to leave your pet at home. Period.

[Renthead Mommy]

The husband has a widowed aunt, late 60's, both kids out of college.  She bought a condo in Florida but lives in NY.  She said something about coming to see us and bringing her dog. I said our lease on this house is really strick and we can't even have day visitors with dogs, supposedly in the back yard even so that probably won't work.  She told me not to worry, it's a ESA. 

 

My response, having a pretty good idea this was a total BS excuse just so he can fly between NY and FL,  was 'OMG!  I am so sorry!  We had no idea it had gotten so rough for you with the kids now gone!  What do you need?  Are you getting therapy? Do did you find a support group? I have a few friends in counseling that may be able to suggest some online groups for you." 

 

Aunt:  "Oh I'm fine!  I just do it so the dog can fly to FL with me! LOL!" 

 

 

Me in icy cold, judgey tone: "Oh... I see...."

[J-rap]

I think what bothers me about "comfort" dogs being in the passenger area of airplanes is that the only people I know personally who have done that know they're not really therapy dogs.  They are just people who don't like the idea of putting their dog in with the cargo and so decide to sneak around the system by pretending they're some kind of therapy dog, and then they laugh at fooling the system. 

 

 

[Renthead Mommy]

I'm as against the mis-use of "comfort dogs" as just about anyone you can imagine.

 

OTOH I can't figure it out. I take my dog out and about to places pets are allowed because he needs some mental stimulation and socialization outside of our home and beyond our neighborhood. Those outings are specifically for him, not when I really need to shop or accomplish anything. We travel with him (we have an RV) because I don't trust any kennel or pet sitter enough to leave him. 

 

But it's not easy being out and about with a dog. It's like having a toddler along--you always have to pay attention, you have to consider their needs above your own, you have to make sure you have plenty of poop bags, some extra water, etc.. So part of me is inclined to give these "comfort" people a wee bit of the benefit of the doubt, because I figure they really must need something from that pet to deal with the extra hassle. We love our dog (see above about traveling with him), but I don't particularly want him with me when I'm eating a nice meal out or shopping.

 

Not that I'm excusing the abuse of it at all.

 

 

But don't you know that a lot of those people bucking the system are special! They don't have to pay attention to their dog, that is your job to know their dog is friendly, or that they are in that aisle so if you don't want to be near the dog you shouldn't go down that aisle!  We the general public are supposed to consider the needs of the owner and dog!  And have you not heard it is irresponsible of places to not have water for their animal, or for places like HD to have a procedure in place for employees to clean up animal messes.  I mean it's their store after all, not the dog owners yard!  Really why would a dog owner clean up a store!

 

But hey, as long as everyone sees how cute the dog is and how special the owner is with their dog, it's all worth it of course!

 

 

:glare:  :banghead:  :banghead:

[Bluegoat]

Seems to me there is some reason why dogs have been banned from a lot of places in the first place.  Was that just overkill or is there still a reason we don't want dogs in the grocery store, emergency room, corporate office?

 

Funny story though ... I normally work at home, but we own an office building in which we have an office.  One day all the other partners were out of town, and our usual office admin was off, so I had to be present at the office. 

 

I got to the office to find a nonprofit board meeting going on, and a fluffy white dog in the middle of the floor.  I assume it's the pet of some elderly eccentric board member, and go about my business.  The meeting ends, the people leave, the dog is still there.  I send an email to all my colleagues, "anyone know why there is a dog in the office?"  Our admin replies, oh yeah, I promised to dog-sit today, the owner will come and get the dog later.

 

Hours go by, and I'm wondering how often this dog needs to go out and pee.  The dog is looking at me with those begging eyes.  No leash in sight.  I'm really not appreciating this.  Eventually the owner comes and gets his dog.  Turns out this dog is kept in the office building pretty much all the time - nobody is quite sure whether it's legal or not.  :/

 

I think this is probably true.  Where people are fairly tolerant of dogs coming with people there is also an expectation that people have the sense to know that some places are inappropriate and there are social expectations for the dog's behaviour.

 

I find people get entitled about places being dog free and also about bringing their poorly behaved dog wherever they want.  

[Bluegoat]

When I was a kid people just didn't bring their dogs to stores and stuff.  I don't think places had to even decide whether to allow dogs or not until fairly recently. 

 

The first time I noticed a dog in a store was around 2012. I know because I was working there and management had to train us on what we could and couldn't ask the owners. I had noticed seeing eye dogs and other such dogs in public before, but that's when I first started seeing pets being brought in- both on leashes and in purse like carriers. 

 

When did comfort animals/emotional support animals come into being?

 

There are places where dogs in public have always been more common.  And in most places a few generations ago it was common for dogs to wander alone too.  If you ever try reading some James Herriot stories he's always getting dogs in the street, in pubs, at meetings.

[gardenmom5]

When I was a kid people just didn't bring their dogs to stores and stuff.  I don't think places had to even decide whether to allow dogs or not until fairly recently. 

 

The first time I noticed a dog in a store was around 2012. I know because I was working there and management had to train us on what we could and couldn't ask the owners. I had noticed seeing eye dogs and other such dogs in public before, but that's when I first started seeing pets being brought in- both on leashes and in purse like carriers. 

 

When did comfort animals/emotional support animals come into being?

 

the first time I saw a dog - in a furniture store (it was a customer - NOT the owner) - was 1981.

 

Oh, I'm sure it's legal, it's usually restaurants and such that are addressed in the law.  

 

My doctor usually has her dog at the office. I'm usually a cat person, but this dog is the most chill, adorable piece of fluff I have ever seen. She roams freely unless a patient requests otherwise, and then they just tell her to go to her office. Yes, the dog has her own office  :lol:

 

my eye dr has a standard poodle she brings in most days - but she also deals with many children with special needs, and the dog helps to calm many of them.

 

I think it is FAR past time for requiring official registration of service animals the way the government regulates disabled placards/license plates. As much as I had government red tape, the current system is being abused. If you cannot get your physician/licensed mental health clinician to sign off on a letter documenting your disability and need for a service animal to bring it along with proof of service animal training from a legitimate organization down to your local Animal Control, then you need to leave your pet at home. Period.

 

this relative drives around a third relative - who has a legit license plate.  notices have come in the mail - she's not supposed to be driving/using the handicapped license plate without the (very elderly) relative for whom it belongs.

not sure if she parks in handicapped stalls - but I wouldn't put it past her.

[gardenmom5]

I think what bothers me about "comfort" dogs being in the passenger area of airplanes is that the only people I know personally who have done that know they're not really therapy dogs.  They are just people who don't like the idea of putting their dog in with the cargo and so decide to sneak around the system by pretending they're some kind of therapy dog, and then they laugh at fooling the system. 

 

my son's flew home on a flight where near them was a baby, a cat, and a dog. 

'the dog was the best behaved. 

 

eta:   I haven't had many animals encounters on airplanes.  the most memorable one being a red-eye from sea-tac to jfk - the cat meowed the entire flight.  (pretty sure it was in a crate.)

Edited February 6, 2018 by gardenmom5

[londo]

I live in Southern MO... people take their dogs everywhere and most people don't care... Unless it's a health code violation. 

 

I also work at Walmart and have seen some stupid stuff- don't bring your pet in if it has no people skills!

[bolt.]

... If you cannot get your physician/licensed mental health clinician to sign off on a letter documenting your disability and need for a service animal to bring it along with proof of service animal training from a legitimate organization down to your local Animal Control...

What's that you say? That if a blind woman with mobility issues can't...

 

1. Convince her doctor to see her for no particular health reason at a workable time for her, while rearranging her other commitments

2. Walk to a bus stop, half a km or so, by memory

3. Board the correct bus, transfer as necissary, and get off at her destination

4. Enter a vaguely familiar building while navigating by touch

5. Talk with her doctor about her paperwork needs (not her health needs)

6. Accept and carefully stash what is (to her) essentially a few blank pages from the doctor -- pay the fee

7. Navigate home on public transit, lets say it's a total of 4km of walking and 5 hours out and about on her feet (and probably plenty of stairs)... she is seriously exhausted

8. Memorize the exact location where she put the papers down (they feel identical to all of her other papers)

9. Rest, and take care of herself

10. Find all of her papers from the guide dog school (which aklso feel exactly like all of her other papers) and gather them together

11. Plan and execute another 5-hour-plus outing on public transit on another day -- but this time to a brand new destination with completely different bus transfers

12. Based on very little information, navigate from (presumably) the correct bus stop towards the correct building and office for 'animal control'

13. Find the correct desk, hand in the stack of hopefully relevant papers to the person at the desk

14. Assuming all is correct, sign a form using a signature guide, while feeling embarrassed to be seen as 'illiterate' (possibly pay another fee)

(If all is not correct, return home at length by transit and hopefully remember more thouroughly every paper she owns, exactly where they are, and exactly what is written on each one -- in spite of the fact that she has never seen what is on any of them. Try again from step 10 another day.)

15. Receive ID, memorize what it feels like, place it in her wallet, memorize where she placed it

16. Respond politely to any and all demands that she show ID in places where only the disabled are requested to show ID, to countless nobody-people who have no right to request any ID from able bodied people.

 

You know what? Maybe. She. Can't.

 

Two days of gruelling work is a very big deal if your life is already seriously challenged by a disability.

 

I think you have proposed and easy errand for able people, and suggested it shouldn't bother disabled people to meet those demands. I think that displays a profound misunderstanding of what "disability" fundamentally means. It means everyday things are hard and extra burdens might very well be insurmountable. Or, if they must, they can, but it's excessively difficult and sometimes cruel.

 

The solution to "welfare fraud makes disabled people's lives more difficult" is not, "let's make disabled people's lives more difficult though bureaucracy that applies to them but not to the wrongdoers in the situation".

 

I'm not opposed to all bureaucracy and licensing -- but there needs to be some thouroughly reasoned methodologies so that such a system becomes a help to the disabled not a burden to them.

[SKL]

Just a thought ... what about the emotional comfort of people who are afraid of dogs?  Whose feelings matter most?

 

ETA I'm not talking about trained service dogs, but about "emotional support animals."

Edited February 6, 2018 by SKL

[hornblower]

I said this on a previous thread  - this wouldn't be happening if people relaxed about having animals in public places. There are places in Europe where you can bring your pets on trains, buses, and in some restaurants.  I don't like people faking service dogs but I get why they do it.  

 

[SKL]

There are lots of places here where dogs are welcome too.  But some people have to push it to the detriment of all.

[Bluegoat]

I said this on a previous thread  - this wouldn't be happening if people relaxed about having animals in public places. There are places in Europe where you can bring your pets on trains, buses, and in some restaurants.  I don't like people faking service dogs but I get why they do it.  

 

 

 

I tend to favour that model, but then people not only lie, I see them being really stupid.

 

I have some relatives who I love dearly, but seem to lack all common sense when it comes to taking their dogs places.  Sure, it's nice to take your dog fo a walk at the beach, but in summer when it'd doing it's business within three feet of someone's spot, it's kind of gross.  Or letting them off leash on an island with a delicate ecosystem so there is a no off-leash rule.  Etc.

[Cindy in FL.]

My son is highly allergic to dogs (and horses and possibly other animals). He is allergic to their hair/fur, dander, and saliva. He has asthma attacks from exposure. So, no, I am not relaxed about people having their pets in public places. Nor do I think I should have to be.

 

I said this on a previous thread - this wouldn't be happening if people relaxed about having animals in public places. There are places in Europe where you can bring your pets on trains, buses, and in some restaurants. I don't like people faking service dogs but I get why they do it.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by Cindy in FL.

[bolt.]

This would be an activity her country disability board or an aide could help her with. She doesn’t need to go it alone to get the paperwork filled out or even get to her appointment. It might be a few phone calls and a small wait but it’s not unheard of by any stretch.

Yes, it would be easier for her not to do it alone on foot. All of those things are called "seeking sighted help" -- and she probably would seek sighted help for a task that difficult.

 

My point is that I sincerely question why a service *for* disabled people would be suggested to include logistics that are clearly at the edge of their solo capacity.

 

It's an error of form-and-function. The goal of the idea (freedom and independence for disabled people) is completely diametrically opposed to the methodology (burdens for disabled people, helpers required).

 

To me, if there is going to need to be a "licence to be disabled in public together with the tools I need to live normally" (and there might need to be one, I admit, to identify the truly disabled from the fakers) at *very least* the process for getting such a licence needs to be extremely accessible -- not "get help because you can't do this alone" workable, but genuinely accessible.

 

If disabled people have to expend additional effort (in their already overly-challenging lives) to compensate for the misbehaviour of people of privilege, I think it should be kept to a minimal effort on the part of the disabled person.

Edited February 6, 2018 by bolt.

[Liz CA]

Well, the other day I read something about a comfort peacock not being allowed on a plane.

 

I tend to be skeptical of this recent trend of comfort animals.  Especially since I know at least one person who is lying about the "need" for it.

 

 

The peacock on the plane thing was just out there but is an example of how these privileges are abused and people with legitimate needs are being mocked.

 

Comfort dogs are often recommended to people with emotional issues like anxiety / PTSD and Epilepsy etc. They can fulfill an important role but - as anything - it has the the potential of being take advantage of.

[gardenmom5]

 

Two days of gruelling work is a very big deal if your life is already seriously challenged by a disability.

 

 

the subject of the thread was about able bodied/mentally capable people who are abusing the system. - the system supposedly in place to help those with legitimate disabilities.  the system by which their taking advantage of it hurts those with legitimate disabilities.

 

it would be more helpful to make suggestions of how to fix the system so the scammers can't take advantage of it to the detriment of those with legitimate needs.

 

Just a thought ... what about the emotional comfort of people who are afraid of dogs?  Whose feelings matter most?

 

ETA I'm not talking about trained service dogs, but about "emotional support animals."

 

there are legitimate emotional support animals - that's not the problem.  it's those who call fifi/fido a service/support/comfort dog that are the problem.

[hornblower]

My son is highly allergic to dogs and horses (and possibly other animals). He is allergic to their hair/fur, dander, and saliva. He has asthma attacks from exposure. So, no, I am not relaxed about people having their pets in public places. Nor do I think I should have to be.

 

 

 

see, I think when we live in a society we all need to compromise. You're asking me to do all the compromising. We could have pet free flights for example - I think that's reasonable (I also like the idea of child free flights & silent train cars but that always gets people upset).

 

Sometimes I walk into a store and the music or the lighting trigger an instant migraine & I have to walk out. That's my issue - not anyone else's. I have allergies as does my dh & 1 of my kids - our are not currently life threatening allergies but we have had some doozie reactions & emergency runs for benadryl. But it's our problem to deal with. 

[gardenmom5]

The peacock on the plane thing was just out there but is an example of how these privileges are abused and people with legitimate needs are being mocked.

 

Comfort dogs are often recommended to people with emotional issues like anxiety / PTSD and Epilepsy etc. They can fulfill an important role but - as anything - it has the the potential of being take advantage of.

 

epilepsy is not an emotional issues, and they  are NOT a "comfort dog".   they are service dogs - who often can detect a seizure before it starts (which actually can't be trained.  they either can or can't detect an oncoming seizure), so the person can get to a safe place prior to it's onset.

ds's gf has epilepsy.