What the deal with dogs and shopping?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I misread the thread title as "what's the deal with dogs and shoplifting" and I was very, very confused.

[bethben]

My dd is affected and it makes me angry. Entitlement is what it is.

This is what I was wondering especially with allergic people. I’ve seen dogs in their bags on the plane and no one is asking if the person in the next seat is allergic. A service dog here and there is different than what I’m seeing.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[foxbridgeacademy]

Odd how so many are ok with guns in stores but bring in a dog & suddenly there's umbrage.... 

 

I'd rather people bring a dog, even a fake service dog, than open carry or concealed guns. 

Can I LOVE this comment? Like is so not strong enough  :001_tt1:

 

Well, how about CC service dogs? Are you OK with those?

 

Nah, never mind. I'm messing with you. Dogs can't CC. Only cats.

:rofl: My cat could hide a bazooka in her saggy belly.

[Pawz4me]

How do people know if a service dog is fake, btw ? If someone has an invisible illness or disability, how would you know ?

 

If you know dogs you can spot a fake service dog after a few seconds of observation. It has everything to do with the dog's behavior and body language and nothing at all to do with the person.

[MedicMom]

For the record, I don’t like dogs. I have two very nice golden retrievers, but I only tolerate them because they are well behaved and everyone else in the family adores them. And they are really good dogs.

 

At least two people I am close to have adopted dogs and then made them “service dogs†for their kids. This annoys the everlasting crap out of me. If your dog is trained to detect and reduce a panic attack, that’s acceptable. That’s an actual service dog. A dog you plucked out of a shelter and declared an emotional support service dog two days later—no. Service dogs are generally bred for the purpose and highly trained. I’ve seen some do amazing things—seizure dogs and diabetic alert dogs, for instance. I may not like dogs but I will happily transport your actual service dog to the hospital after it’s alerted and protected you during a seizure.

But slapping an emotional support vest on an untrained dog is ridiculous and harmful to everyone.

[mom2scouts]

I think you make some very good points.

 

There is a particular biking/running/walking path near my house, and there are signs everywhere "DOGS MUST BE ON A LEASH".   Many people ignore it, and those owners DO NOT CARE.   Their opinion is, "My dog is friendly what's the issue?"  The issue is, your dog might run into a biker and hurt someone.   The issue is, why should I have to put up with a dog jumping on me, even if it is friendly?    People are very delusional about their dog being "under control".

 

The rest of us need to be protected from the bad dog owners IMHO, if nothing else.

 

One of my neighbors was injured on a hike and bike trail by an irresponsible owner. The neighbor has a dog and likes dogs. The dog owner was walking a dog on a retractable leash and did not have control when my neighbor tried to ride her bike past them. The dog ran across the path and the neighbor had to decide between running into the dog or riding off the path into a ditch. She chose the ditch and ended up with a broken arm.

[gardenmom5]

My niece is blind and has a guide dog.  Her dog is SO well trained you would know he was working even if you didn't know my niece is blind.  Her dog is trained to focus on only my niece and things in the immediate environment that would affect her.  You could wave a juicy steak in front of her dog and he would have zero reaction.  He is trained to curl up at her feet when she is sitting so as not to take up any extra room.  When he is in harness he would never sniff another person, pay attention to a cat crossing in front of him, jump up, or bark. He will blatently ignore when people interact with him.  He actually is trained to go to the bathroom on command based on when my niece can get him outside during her school day.  He is absolutely amazing.

 

I know not all service dogs are this well trained, but even my cousin's dog (service dog for severe epilepsy) is trained well enough to focus solely on my cousin while working in public.  The dogs that are jumping, barking, or easily distracted make me wonder if they are legit service dogs.  

 

I LOVE dogs.  Love them.  I would have a house full if my husband didn't put the brakes on at two.  As much as I adore my dogs, there are very few places I take them.  There is something slightly disconcerting to see a purse dog in the baby seat of a grocery cart strolling through produce.  

 

And fascinating little bit of trivia I learned when my niece got her guide dog - there is only one place where a guide dog is legally NOT allowed to go...and that is an operating room.  When she had surgery, her dog went as far as the operating room door and rejoined her in the recovery room.  And he cried in the waiting room with my sister the whole time she was in surgery.   :laugh:

 

Bingo.  a service dog is a *working* dog. it is working.  it is focused on the person they are serving.  even in an office, when it is curled up under their desk - it is alert to the least little indication from their "servee" that they are needed.

 

There was series on netflix called "dogs with jobs".  one woman's needs were so great - they actually had to have someone there at night so the dog could be "off" and actually rest.

 

maybe 30 years ago, I encountered a service dog in a very thick crush of people.   He was trying to thread the way through for his human.  the owner was blind, and thought someone was trying to pet the dog (a big no-no- for a service dog.), distracting it from his job.  no, the dog was  just trying to get through a huge crowd, and that was what had slowed him down.

 

My heart sings when I see a content, well behaved dog in public. That animal has earned its place under the table. My dog is a neurotic mess. He’s happier at home and it’s better for society all around.

 

Dogs-as-accessories annoy me, but generally their owners are more obnoxious than the dog. TWO of my cousins have dog purses. I think I don’t like it because I associate the behavior with annoying people. TELL me before you bring a dog in my house and I yell at my dog for being weird when he’s just trying to alert me of Trojan Purse intruders.

 

Edited because of overly aggressive spell check.

 

this.  

[Guest]

:laugh:

 

Dogs are all "LOOOK!!!! LOOK AT WHAT I HAVE!!!! HEY, WANNA SEE? WANNA?"

 

Cats be like, “Maybe I carry and maybe I don’t. Go pound sand.â€

 

ETA: dysfunctional tags

Edited November 13, 2017 by Quill

[gardenmom5]

One of my neighbors was injured on a hike and bike trail by an irresponsible owner. The neighbor has a dog and likes dogs. The dog owner was walking a dog on a retractable leash and did not have control when my neighbor tried to ride her bike past them. The dog ran across the path and the neighbor had to decide between running into the dog or riding off the path into a ditch. She chose the ditch and ended up with a broken arm.

 

my husband had an unleashed pitbull dart out at him and knock him off his bike.  he was riding a long a BUSY street.  we're lucky he didn't get knocked into the street and hit by a car.

[Guest]

I totally get where you're coming from.

 

I was chased and bitten by a large dog and I'm still kind of wary about large dogs. I don't like dogs sniffing my crotch, and that has happened while in the checkout at Walmart. I don't mind dogs when they are well behaved and not in my personal space, but just like when people park carts in the center of the aisle and proceed to chit chat, it annoys me when dog owners use those retractable leashes in stores.

 

Every one of these things are the owner's fault, not the fault of the dog. So maybe what I'm really looking for is better owners. And also for me to be able to relax a little around dogs.

 

I do love seeing dogs in PetSmart because they seem so happy there!

If I got to be Queen of Everything, this is one thing I would outlaw immediately: retractable leashes. God, how I hate them! I hate using them myself and I hate when other people are using them because what is the point of a leash at all if not to give a specific and non-negotiable maximum distance from the leash-holder?

 

I actually bought a real leash for my parets’ dog once when I was merely dog-sitting for a week; that is how very much I hate retractable leashes. I would not use it for even seven days.

[Guest]

as I am both deathly allergic to and deathly afraid of dogs, to those of you who are responsible pet owners and don't drag your dog everywhere,  who train and control their animals, etc: THANK YOU.

 

I once was in a situation where an apparent service dog was sniffing at the snacks sitting out on a table, running around, getting all close to everyone, totally out of its owner's control... I was told, "oh the dog's always around, heehee" when I had to apologize for looking like I was trying to dig something out of my arm because it was itching so bad because of the dog. No offer was made to shoo it away or get the owner or anything. One of the several reasons I'm not part of that program any longer. (Couldn't take benadryl b/c I had to drive and I was lucky enough the reaction didn't get worse.)

[poppy]

For the record, I don’t like dogs. I have two very nice golden retrievers, but I only tolerate them because they are well behaved and everyone else in the family adores them. And they are really good dogs.

 

At least two people I am close to have adopted dogs and then made them “service dogs†for their kids. This annoys the everlasting crap out of me. If your dog is trained to detect and reduce a panic attack, that’s acceptable. That’s an actual service dog. A dog you plucked out of a shelter and declared an emotional support service dog two days later—no. Service dogs are generally bred for the purpose and highly trained. I’ve seen some do amazing things—seizure dogs and diabetic alert dogs, for instance. I may not like dogs but I will happily transport your actual service dog to the hospital after it’s alerted and protected you during a seizure.

But slapping an emotional support vest on an untrained dog is ridiculous and harmful to everyone.

 

Getting a dog for your kids emotional support is lovely.  Buying  a VEST for an dog that isn't really a service dog is repugnant.  What is wrong with people?

[Guest]

This is what I was wondering especially with allergic people. I’ve seen dogs in their bags on the plane and no one is asking if the person in the next seat is allergic. A service dog here and there is different than what I’m seeing.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

I declared my peanut allergy and my dog allergy the last time I flew. We didn't have to deal with the dog, but from what I understand, someone is getting a new flight. I think for pets, they get moved away from the allergic person (the hold, maybe?)-- might be carrier-specific.

 

The peanuts though... we had a stop, but didn't change planes, and I only had one pass, so I think they forgot about the allergy the second leg of the trip. Blessedly, no reaction. 

[GoodGrief]

We have three dogs, two 40-ish lb elderly pound puppies and an 150 lb year old Great Dane whose antics dominate my Facebook page. There is a twin mattress in my living room for his comfort. :laugh:

 

That said, the animal waste in public is a real issue. Even when it is cleaned up, say on a soccer field, it is impossible to get the entirety of the mess, short of rinsing the area thoroughly, I suppose. Plenty of people ignore their dog's waste on the trails around here to the point that it impacts water quality in the streams. And let's not talk about the smell of the spring melt here. Yuck.

 

And nobody should be required to have contact with someone else's pet in public.

 

Interesting though...I was in Istanbul a few years ago, where there is a huge population of semi-feral dogs and cats. The government tolerates them, even provides basic vet care. And someone must be cleaning up after them, because I never saw waste lying around like I do in my town.

 

 

[poppy]

Genuine question: what about people who are allergic to dogs? Are people with dog allergies affected by dogs in stores or do they have to have contact with the dogs to be affected?

 

Anne

 

HR perspective here: Allergies are not a reason to deny service to anyone in need of a service dog.  Since emotional support animals fall under the same umbrella as service dogs in general, this means if you have an allergy, you are kinda out of luck.   If you can't be near dogs,  you can documentation request accommodation to not have to be near dogs in the workplace or school.   In terms of where your cube / office is, or your dorm room.

[theelfqueen]

I have to declare my allergies and my son's when getting on a plane. We take allergy meds before flying, usually. If there's a cat on the plane I request to be as far away as possible -- I wonder if it may be necessary in my future to change flights.

 

[Miss Peregrine]

This page has  a helpful graphic on the differences/rights of different types of animals.

 

https://www.projectcanine.org/service-dogs/

[Annie G]

If I got to be Queen of Everything, this is one thing I would outlaw immediately: retractable leashes. God, how I hate them! I hate using them myself and I hate when other people are using them because what is the point of a leash at all if not to give a specific and non-negotiable maximum distance from the leash-holder?

 

I actually bought a real leash for my parets’ dog once when I was merely dog-sitting for a week; that is how very much I hate retractable leashes. I would not use it for even seven days.

 

I hope you do become Queen of Everything because I sure would like retractable leashes to be outlawed.  Every dog on the multi use trail causes me to ring my bell, verbally call out, and slow down to almost a stop because I can't tell if the dog is on a retractable leash or not.  I ring and call out whenever I come up behind anyone, but the whole 'nearly having to stop' gets really old when I'm trying to ride for exercise.  And it really annoys me when a dog owner yells at me because I almost get tangled in their dog's retractable leash. 

[SquirrellyMama]

HR perspective here: Allergies are not a reason to deny service to anyone in need of a service dog. ******Since emotional support animals fall under the same umbrella as service dogs in general******, this means if you have an allergy, you are kinda out of luck. If you can't be near dogs, you can documentation request accommodation to not have to be near dogs in the workplace or school. In terms of where your cube / office is, or your dorm room.

Do they actually fall under the same umbrella as service dogs? I don't think they do yet. Is that state specific? I just read the law in Iowa is that service dogs are allowed in places like restaurants, but not emotional support animals. I didn't think they were certified.

 

Kelly

[Guest]

HR perspective here: Allergies are not a reason to deny service to anyone in need of a service dog.  Since emotional support animals fall under the same umbrella as service dogs in general, this means if you have an allergy, you are kinda out of luck.   If you can't be near dogs,  you can documentation request accommodation to not have to be near dogs in the workplace or school.   In terms of where your cube / office is, or your dorm room.

Was the law changed recently?

 

We just did a disability training and it was made very clear that only actual service-doing-animals that are dogs or mini-horses are covered under the ADA rules. You can ask 1)is it a service animal b)what does it do and that's it, unless it's not behaving and then you can kick the animal out (+/- reasonable accommodation limits, health & safety). ESA's didn't/don't count because they don't do a task like as an extension of the person.

 

Allergies: if it's interfering with a basic activity of life, it is covered under ADA just like missing a limb. Breathing is a basic activity, yes?

 

Oh, and because I missed this part-- who will react how depends entirely on the allergy. Most people are allergic to the dander but react differently at different amounts. Some people are only allergic to saliva.

[Innisfree]

Getting a dog for your kids emotional support is lovely. Buying a VEST for an dog that isn't really a service dog is repugnant. What is wrong with people?

 

The thing is--

 

It *is* perfectly legal in the US to train one's own service dog.

 

Is this the best possible route? Probably not, but for many people it may be the only route available to getting a service dog.

 

Organizations have long waiting lists and very high costs, often in the tens of thousands per dog. They also are typically focused on fairly narrow groups of people: for example, children with autism of a particular degree of severity, or the Deaf, or so on. If any other dogs are in the household, many groups will not place a service dog there. Other rules may apply as well. There are just far more people who would benefit from service dogs than groups which supply them.

 

There is no single certifying service dog organization in the US. Any dog which is trained to do work or a task to assist a disabled owner *is* legally a service dog. And, yes, people can buy vests for their dogs.

 

I wish everyone who would benefit from a dog could have one, and I wish there were a national registry to prove those dogs were properly trained. I wish public access training was easily available. It's hard to find a trainer who has experience with this.

 

The category of emotional support dogs is often abused, I know, but they also serve a genuine need. I posted a bit about this in the thread about flying with a dog. Again, I wish there were a central registry for them. It would make me feel more comfortable when my child genuinely needs her dog to travel with us. We do, however, have to carry a recent letter from her doctor stating her need, and that only gives us access to airplanes. We rent pet-friendly accommodations and do not take the dog anywhere an ordinary pet could not go.

 

I think there's plenty of room for laws to improve, but the present laws do try to balance needs of the public with needs of the disabled. Allowing people to train their own dogs is one way they do this.

[Word Nerd]

How do people know if a service dog is fake, btw ?

They admit it. (The owners—not the dogs. ;))

Edited November 13, 2017 by Word Nerd

[kewb]

I have no issues with dogs (service or not) being allowed places.

The fake service dog to get around the no dogs allowed at a place, however, I take issue.

Nothing ruins a shopping trip quicker than a misbehaving (yapping, barking, snapping) dog. The people who have fake support animals should be ashamed of themselves for doing a disservice to people who do have a need.

[poppy]

The thing is--

 

It *is* perfectly legal in the US to train one's own service dog.

 

Is this the best possible route? Probably not, but for many people it may be the only route available to getting a service dog.

 

Organizations have long waiting lists and very high costs, often in the tens of thousands per dog. They also are typically focused on fairly narrow groups of people: for example, children with autism of a particular degree of severity, or the Deaf, or so on. If any other dogs are in the household, many groups will not place a service dog there. Other rules may apply as well. There are just far more people who would benefit from service dogs than groups which supply them.

 

There is no single certifying service dog organization in the US. Any dog which is trained to do work or a task to assist a disabled owner *is* legally a service dog. And, yes, people can buy vests for their dogs.

 

I wish everyone who would benefit from a dog could have one, and I wish there were a national registry to prove those dogs were properly trained. I wish public access training was easily available. It's hard to find a trainer who has experience with this.

 

The category of emotional support dogs is often abused, I know, but they also serve a genuine need. I posted a bit about this in the thread about flying with a dog. Again, I wish there were a central registry for them. It would make me feel more comfortable when my child genuinely needs her dog to travel with us. We do, however, have to carry a recent letter from her doctor stating her need, and that only gives us access to airplanes. We rent pet-friendly accommodations and do not take the dog anywhere an ordinary pet could not go.

 

I think there's plenty of room for laws to improve, but the present laws do try to balance needs of the public with needs of the disabled. Allowing people to train their own dogs is one way they do this.

 

I agree there can be multiple paths to getting a service dog and there are also plenty of responsible, reasonable emotional support animal owners out there !

 

What I’m talking about is, you can get a ‘service dog’ vest in any size for about $26 . If you buy that without any intense training or certification , I think it’s duplicitous .

[MercyA]

Yeah, my 15-pound hell-spawn Chi Pin doesn't go anywhere with me. She wears a red harness with "caution" on the sides so people don't approach her.

 

:wub: I miss my 15-pound fierce little Chi mix, and I'm sure I'd coo over yours. From a safe distance, of course.  :)

[MercyA]

:)  

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by MercyA

[J-rap]

This is one of my pet peeves. 

 

 

😂

[MercyA]

Well, how about CC service dogs? Are you OK with those?

 

My little Chi mix was once *patted down* by the TSA. True story.

[J-rap]

I love being able to take dogs into public places, because I think dogs are pretty darn special.  

 

That said, 1) They're not people, 2) Make sure they're well-behaved, 3) Don't assume that just because you think they're cute, other people don't necessarily want strange dogs running up to them to say hello (even if they're on a leash).  #3 has happened to me so many times.  And although I generally don't mind when someone thinks I want their cute, friendly dog to push his nose into my leg to greet me (and I really don't mind!  I love dogs), I know that other people might, or other people might be nervous around dogs, etc.

 

 

[Arcadia]

Odd how so many are ok with guns in stores but bring in a dog & suddenly there's umbrage....

My oldest was nearly bitten by a big dog who was supposed to be on leash and was actually in a no pets zone when he was 3. The dog owner was really scared we would sue and it would have required a trip to ER if his dog did attacked. The other tourists and the staff at the attraction witnessed the dog chasing my kid and was freaked out.

 

We like the well behaved dogs at pet stores and hardware stores but irresponsible dog owners makes us wary. I am not comfortable with guns either but I have nothing against reponsible gun owners who legally conceal carry.

 

My condo elevators does not allow dogs in elevators. Some dog owners kick a fuss and said cats should be banned too. The cat owners diplomatically used the stairs when with their cats as there are people allergic to cats. I do not know why only dogs are banned but not cats. A particular dog owner would vandalize those signs. So again, it’s the irresponsible owners not the dogs that is the problem.

 

I had a dog “stalk†me because he wanted to poke his face into my insulated lunch bag. The dog owners were apologetic especially when the dog followed me most of the way home, constantly sniffing my lunch bag. My lunch bag was actually empty and we were walking home from the library. So no idea why the dog was so attracted to my empty lunch bag.

 

Sydney airport use dogs to sniff out undeclared food :) apparently the sniffer dogs can sniff out money too. The dogs are adorable and I saw a sniffer dog sniff out jerky that was undeclared by a stranger on the same flight as I was.

“Sniffer dogs are well known for their ability to detect restricted goods such as drugs and explosives, but less so for their ability to sniff out large amounts of money.

 

Recently sniffer dogs caught outgoing Ipswich Mayor Paul Pisasale with $50,000 in his carry-on luggage at Melbourne Airport.†http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-10/afp-sniffer-dogs-training-explained/8606228

[Lizzie in Ma]

First time I heard of a companion iguana. The green iguana my ds once had would not have been a good candidate... :)

 

I saw the cutest article about an emotional support duck on a plane.  He had shoes and a diaper on.

That being said, I despise fake emotional support animals because they ARE NOT TRAINED!

Training a service dog, l takes a ton of work.  I know.  I am training one for our daughter..  They need to have superior training so that they can go where they need to go and do what they are supposed to do.  It is a long, hard road to trod but worth every second.

I am not a fan of untrained animals in public in an scenario.

 

Also, emotional support animals, comfort animals, and therapy dogs are not service animals under Title II and Title III of the ADA and do not have the same "rights" as a trained service dog and their handler.

[MedicMom]

I saw the cutest article about an emotional support duck on a plane. He had shoes and a diaper on.

That being said, I despise fake emotional support animals because they ARE NOT TRAINED!

Training a service dog, l takes a ton of work. I know. I am training one for our daughter.. They need to have superior training so that they can go where they need to go and do what they are supposed to do. It is a long, hard road to trod but worth every second.

I am not a fan of untrained animals in public in an scenario.

 

Also, emotional support animals, comfort animals, and therapy dogs are not service animals under Title II and Title III of the ADA and do not have the same "rights" as a trained service dog and their handler.

I think people don’t know this. The two people I know with emotional support dogs really think the vest allows the dogs to go anywhere. The dogs are reasonably well behaved, but they are not trained to the standards of a service dog in behavior or task assisting. A store manager won’t ask them to leave because they don’t know all the laws and won’t risk breaking it, but it’s just not okay.

 

Service dogs are not pets. They are incredible animals, and have been highly trained to assist. Emotional support dogs serve a role, but they are not service dogs and do not have the same legal rights. It IS difficult to get a service dog, and I don’t have any issues with someone training one themselves to service dog standards, but you can’t just slap a vest or a title on a dog and suddenly it becomes okay.

[Innisfree]

I agree there can be multiple paths to getting a service dog and there are also plenty of responsible, reasonable emotional support animal owners out there !

 

What I’m talking about is, you can get a ‘service dog’ vest in any size for about $26 . If you buy that without any intense training or certification , I think it’s duplicitous .

Yes, I completely agree.

[poppy]

When I said above that ESA have the same "rights" as a service dog I was really talking about a workplace setting (and I think colleges are similar).  Employers are limited in what they can ask about animals - they can't forbid them, they can ask "is it necessary for your job" but not why due to HIPPA/privacy. And they can't ask for certification or proof that the dog is trained.  I don't know the rules about going in stores.

 

 

I think people don’t know this. The two people I know with emotional support dogs really think the vest allows the dogs to go anywhere. The dogs are reasonably well behaved, but they are not trained to the standards of a service dog in behavior or task assisting. A store manager won’t ask them to leave because they don’t know all the laws and won’t risk breaking it, but it’s just not okay.

Service dogs are not pets. They are incredible animals, and have been highly trained to assist. Emotional support dogs serve a role, but they are not service dogs and do not have the same legal rights. It IS difficult to get a service dog, and I don’t have any issues with someone training one themselves to service dog standards, but you can’t just slap a vest or a title on a dog and suddenly it becomes okay.

 

I think people know full well and don't care.  They want their dogs with them, the dog isnt' hurting anyone, and they know a store owner won't ask them to leave.  At the same time ask those people what the 'rules' are about -- say -- a seeing eye dog (it's working so don't pet it etc) they'd know darn well.  They aren't ignorant, they are selfish.

[Innisfree]

I think people don’t know this. The two people I know with emotional support dogs really think the vest allows the dogs to go anywhere. The dogs are reasonably well behaved, but they are not trained to the standards of a service dog in behavior or task assisting. A store manager won’t ask them to leave because they don’t know all the laws and won’t risk breaking it, but it’s just not okay.

 

Service dogs are not pets. They are incredible animals, and have been highly trained to assist. Emotional support dogs serve a role, but they are not service dogs and do not have the same legal rights. It IS difficult to get a service dog, and I don’t have any issues with someone training one themselves to service dog standards, but you can’t just slap a vest or a title on a dog and suddenly it becomes okay.

 

Yes, I completely agree. There is enormous confusion about the differences between emotional support dogs, therapy dogs and service dogs, and the people who take advantage of that confusion harm the people who need the animals and try to follow the rules.

[creekland]

Add me to those who really dislike bad dog owners who take their dogs wherever they wish.  The older I get, the less of a dog person I am.  I don't care for them coming up to me, sniffing, licking (esp licking!), and similar.  I don't like seeing them sniff the merchandise in stores or having to step around their feces.  Their mere presence doesn't bother me at all (though I feel for those with allergies), but the moment they come into my space or my other two dislikes, I immediately have a negative impression of their owner/handler.  If they are well behaved, not an issue.

 

I suppose this is another exception to my answer on the "Are you more or less judgmental" thread.  With this case, I'm far more judgmental.  Far, far more.  I liked dogs in my younger years. We've owned several - all good dogs. Now I really do not.  I've no idea why my mind switched, but it has.

 

Cats OTOH, have me wrapped around their furry paws.  No special (human) training required.  I adore cats.  Always have - always will.  Even when they come up to me insistent on sitting with me or rubbing or whatever.  I lost a game with hubby last night because my cat insisted upon a face/neck rub and it was a timed game.  ;)  But I have no desire to take my cat shopping or to a restaurant.  My cat agrees.

 

With the PP who compared dogs to cc in stores, for both I really only want those who have respectable reasons for them - true service animals and true law enforcement.

[MercyA]

Obviously this is a touchy subject for me.  :) My tendency is to want to be combative, but I'll try to explain instead.

 

I think the judgment in threads like this is what gets to me. I don't mind people who politely admit a personal prejudice against dogs being treated like people, as one poster did here. I don't mind people who object to selfish people not wanting to follow rules--I object to that, too. I don't mind people being upset about uncontrolled dogs, or fake service dogs, or dogs whose people don't clean up after them. 

 

I do mind the snide attitude towards people who love dogs and treat them as family members. I do baby my dogs. They fill a need in my life and hopefully I fill needs in theirs. They may not be human beings, but those who actually know dogs know they are without a doubt their own little
"people" with their own little souls.

 

I've carried a dog in a sling. We were on vacation, walking in crowded places, and it was convenient. He was happy and I was happy. If I'm not breaking any rules, why should it bother anyone else?

 

The older I get, the more I realize how much we have in common with other living beings. Have a little care, show a little respect. That's all.   :)

Edited November 13, 2017 by MercyA

[shawthorne44]

I don't bring my dog anywhere.   But, I don't have a problem with people that do.   I do have one reservation about it though.  

 

I used to spend several weeks every year in Germany.   It was shocking at first to see dogs everywhere.  Including at their master's feet at restaurants.   One thing I noticed was how well-behaved the dogs were.  As in service dog level of socialization, i.e. ignoring all other dogs and people.  I think that is what made it work.   I talked to a German co-worker and he said that Friendly is not a desirable trait in dogs to Germans.  Also, if someone's dog misbehaved in public, there would be huge social repercussions.  So, people just didn't take their dog out until they knew for certain that it wouldn't misbehave.  I don't see that with the Americans that take their dogs out and about.  

 

[shawthorne44]

double post

Edited November 13, 2017 by shawthorne44

[tammyw]

I have seen numerous people with their dog in the grocery store - this is Trader Joe’s and the local health food store. They had a blanket down in the top of the cart (where a child would sit) and that’s where the dog was.

[Lady Florida.]

We rarely took our dog out on regular jaunts because he was very shy (a common trait among Shelties), but we did travel with him. We planned in advance for pet friendly hotels and dog friendly restaurants, which usually meant they were in the outdoor eating area.

 

Count me as one who wishes we had more of the European attitude towards taking dogs places. 

[luvbug in Ohio]

I don't like it. As someone with very severe dog allergies, and asthma, I can't tell  you how it drives me crazy to see people with their dogs in stores.  I can't even get into my best friend's car because she takes her dog EVERYWHERE with her, so even if she does leave her dog at home for me, all the hair and dander left behind closes up my throat almost immediately.

I mean, I get you love your dog and all, but guess what, I love the ability to breathe even more!

The one exception to this would be a pet store, I would expect to see them there, and so consequently I never go to those kind of stores. But Target, or Kohl's or something? I think it's extremely selfish and unnecessary.

 

[Pawz4me]

Obviously this is a touchy subject for me.  :) My tendency is to want to be combative, but I'll try to explain instead.

 

I think the judgment in threads like this is what gets to me. I don't mind people who politely admit a personal prejudice against dogs being treated like people, as one poster did here. I don't mind people who object to selfish people not wanting to follow rules--I object to that, too. I don't mind people being upset about uncontrolled dogs, or fake service dogs, or dogs whose people don't clean up after them. 

 

I do mind the snide attitude towards people who love dogs and treat them as family members. I do baby my dogs. They fill a need in my life and hopefully I fill needs in theirs. They may not be human beings, but those who actually know dogs know they are without a doubt their own little

"people" with their own little souls.

 

I've carried a dog in a sling. We were on vacation, walking in crowded places, and it was convenient. He was happy and I was happy. If I'm not breaking any rules, why should it bother anyone else?

 

The older I get, the more I realize how much we have in common with other living beings. Have a little care, show a little respect. That's all.   :)

 

Well said.

 

Generally I try to stay away from the snide attitudes, 'cause experience tells me attitudes like that aren't likely to be changed.

 

I don't bring my dog anywhere.   But, I don't have a problem with people that do.   I do have one reservation about it though.  

 

I used to spend several weeks every year in Germany.   It was shocking at first to see dogs everywhere.  Including at their master's feet at restaurants.   One thing I noticed was how well-behaved the dogs were.  As in service dog level of socialization, i.e. ignoring all other dogs and people.  I think that is what made it work.   I talked to a German co-worker and he said that Friendly is not a desirable trait in dogs to Germans.  Also, if someone's dog misbehaved in public, there would be huge social repercussions.  So, people just didn't take their dog out until they knew for certain that it wouldn't misbehave.  I don't see that with the Americans that take their dogs out and about.  

 

But it's a Catch 22 type thing. Well trained and well socialized dogs do NOT get that way by staying in their own houses or yards, mentally stagnating while they're shut away and sheltered from other experiences. It's widely believed among animal behaviorists (Ph.D. types) that dogs don't have the ability to generalize well. The dog who knows that sit means sit 100% of the time in his own house or yard won't necessarily understand that it means the same thing on the sidewalk, at the park or in a pet store. Especially if they're busy with lots of distractions. You have to methodically train, train, train in a variety of places. And that's pretty darn hard to do--not impossible, but very difficult--in a country that is largely very unfriendly to dogs in public spaces.

 

I shake my head at people in my neighborhood all the time. I can't begin to count the number of times people have complimented my well trained dog. How well he walks on a leash, how he never barks back at their dogs, etc. Well . . . guess what? He's the only dog in the neighborhood who gets walked. Ever. I literally never see one of the others out walking their dogs. Not once a month or even once a year. Never. And when I venture to mention it I get some stupid excuse like "Oh, he's so bad on leash." Well, here's a clue -- keeping him shut up inside your house or your fenced back yard and letting him bark his fool head off every time my well behaved dog and I walk by isn't going to magically make him any better. It takes effort. Most people aren't even willing or able to do the minimum amount of training to have a dog who walks nicely through a quiet neighborhood. Let alone risk public disdain to take a dog out in public and train.

 

So, please -- If you see someone out in public who appears to be working with their dog . . .show a bit of grace.

 

Stepping off my soapbox.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't see it often.  I don't have a problem if it's a smaller dog or a very well behaved dog.  Large dogs make me nervous. 

 

Only thing that gets me is everyone claims their dog is lovable and not capable of hurting anyone.  I don't buy it.  I don't care how much you claim your Rottweiler is lovable and won't hurt me (some dogs are just scary IMO and do not belong in stores or restaurants). 

 

There was a guy who came into the dance studio the other day with a tiny little terrier.  That was odd, but the dog was cute and behaved so it was fine.

 

 

[creekland]

FWIW, I have no problem at all with other people liking dogs.  Someone ought to love them and give them good homes!  My sole issue comes when they assume I do as well as their dog is jumping on me or licking me.

 

And I really still don't believe they belong in average stores (pet stores - no problems).  I wouldn't want one inside at a restaurant either (service dogs excepted of course), but outdoor seating?  No big deal IF they are behaving properly.  Same deal with parks and walking/biking trails, etc, assuming the owner does clean up.

 

[scrapbookbuzz]

Personally, I think the ADA needs to be amended to require carrying a card or license for each service dog. I really don't think this is too much to ask.

I get so tired of people walking right in the store, especially a grocery store (!), with their dog that is so obviously NOT a service dog and NO ONE ON STAFF

says anything. Seriously? It's gotten ridiculous.

[Lady Florida.]

 

 

But it's a Catch 22 type thing. Well trained and well socialized dogs do NOT get that way by staying in their own houses or yards, mentally stagnating while they're shut away and sheltered from other experiences. It's widely believed among animal behaviorists (Ph.D. types) that dogs don't have the ability to generalize well. The dog who knows that sit means sit 100% of the time in his own house or yard won't necessarily understand that it means the same thing on the sidewalk, at the park or in a pet store. Especially if they're busy with lots of distractions. You have to methodically train, train, train in a variety of places. And that's pretty darn hard to do--not impossible, but very difficult--in a country that is largely very unfriendly to dogs in public spaces.

 

 

 

So, please -- If you see someone out in public who appears to be working with their dog . . .show a bit of grace.

 

Stepping off my soapbox.

 

Bouncing off this post -

 

My cousin works for a NJ guide dog school called The Seeing Eye. She doesn't train the dogs, but fosters, raises and socializes the puppies. She posts photos on facebook of places she takes the puppies (it's part of her job to post), which includes schools, festivals/fairs, stores, etc. Once they're old enough to train she turns them over to the trainer. Keep in mind when you see a working dog that they didn't learn how to behave out in public without actually being taken out in public. They don't always wear something that shows they're being trained, so I'm sure there are people who give her the side-eye for having a dog some place "where it doesn't belong".

'

[Teacher Mom]

You can't have a well-behaved dog if you are not allowed to take it anywhere. It is not entitlement; it is a training fact. 

 

Entitlement is changing a diaper on the table next to me in the restaurant as my dog sits quietly on her mat. Entitlement is letting your kids roam free in a store where they enjoy tripping older customers on purpose. Entitlement is paying no attention to the ongoing screaming of your own child and causing true agony to all hearing aid wearers. 

 

Entitlement, quite simply, is a title given to any side you want no part of. How dare they, we judge. Why is it never an introspection of "how dare I?"

[Lady Florida.]

You can't have a well-behaved dog if you are not allowed to take it anywhere. It is not entitlement; it is a training fact. 

 

 

 

+1

[SparklyUnicorn]

You can't have a well-behaved dog if you are not allowed to take it anywhere. It is not entitlement; it is a training fact. 

 

Entitlement is changing a diaper on the table next to me in the restaurant as my dog sits quietly on her mat. Entitlement is letting your kids roam free in a store where they enjoy tripping older customers on purpose. Entitlement is paying no attention to the ongoing screaming of your own child and causing true agony to all hearing aid wearers. 

 

Entitlement, quite simply, is a title given to any side you want no part of. How dare they, we judge. Why is it never an introspection of "how dare I?"

 

Strikes me as a red herring.  So the fact some people do other completely unrelated rude things (which I'll have to take your word for because I've never seen it myself), this means people should be allowed to use the public as a training ground for good dog behavior?

 

I actually doubt most people who break rules and bring their dog into stores are doing it to train their dog.  They simply disregard the rule.  Maybe someone like that shouldn't be in charge of training a dog on behavior.