Harvey and Jobs and evacuations

[athomeontheprairie]

My cousin was not under evacuation. He works as a nurse in an assisted living facility (he only graduated this past May). They were not under evacuation orders. Being from a plains state, he took the first hurricane he's ever experienced seriously and left before the evacuation was ordered. Several days later, the facility where he works went under a mandatory evacuation. His home area never went under mandatory notice. And while he likely wouldn't have had services, neighbors say there's no flooding of the houses on the block.

Prior to them evacuating residents, his superiors were angry (his words) that he had left.

 

I can only think of four types of jobs that I feel should stay until required to leave (military, police, firemen, medical). Most jobs I think it's fine to leave if you need to. But I take exception to leaving older people to fend for themselves (or with limited staff) if you aren't REQUIRED to leave.

 

What is normal in this situation? Does it matter if you live in a mandatory evac area, but work in another zone? What is the general consensus for employment during hurricanes?

 

Can someone else shed some thoughts on this for me?

[Lanny]

Why on earth did he choose to train for a job where he is supposed to be taking care of people, when those people were not of concern to him?  If his superiors are only "very angry" at him, I think they are pretty mild in their response to what he did, which was not in the best interests of the patients in the facility where he was working, or the facility. He abandoned them.   Possibly he should look for another position, doing some other kind of work?  Your cousin sounds like a jerk for what he did.  It would be just great if all of the doctors and nurses, in all of the Hospitals and Nursing Homes, etc., in the Houston area had  left their patients and went somewhere where the Hurricane wouldn't get them.  The largest Medical Center in the world is in Houston. The Public Hospital in Houston had to be evacuated. Who will help the patients if their normal helpers are gone?   Your cousin should move back to a Plains State.  There, they have Tornadoes, but no Hurricanes. 

[Janeway]

I think he had the right to go. His area was at risk of being evacuated and after what happened the last time, he was wise and within his rights.

[Beaniemom]

To answer one of your questions, I think that if a medical professional works at a place not under evacuation but lives in an area under evacuation then they should contact their work and see if lodging there is a possibility since their services are very important during severe weather events. If lodging is not possible then I would expect the employer to cause no difficulty with the person evacuating for their safety.

This wasn't the case for your cousin though. I would have expected his work to review their severe weather plan and let the employees know what was expected of them. As a nurse I am not surprised that his work is "angry." They likely needed all hands to help.

[Mama Geek]

I know lots of people in SE Texas and only 1 family that evacuated before the storm and they were not caretakers or first responders and have a house full of kids.  It isn't normal for most people to leave although more common to send your family to evacuate.

[bettyandbob]

My niece is a medical resident. She wasn't scheduled to work last Friday. She was in constant contact with her hospital through the weekend. She couldn't get out of her apartment until Monday. She made her way to the hospital which was only receiving walk in patients and has been there since. The whole weekend she was in contact and knew at the earliest she could get out she had to relieve someone.

 

I think her experience is standard.

 

I know medical facilities near me have protocols for various weather emergencies. Those protocols have nothing to do with the staff's home. The priority is providing for the patients.

[Supertechmom]

Necessary Medical staff are required to stay and weather the storm or help evacuate.   All the places I have worked have a plan in place to help employees remain at the hospital and to help the employee's family find shelter.   Nurses do not get to leave for their safety.  It is called pt abandonment and it is not tolerated. Someone has to stay and take care of pts and someone has to go with them when they evacuate.  And not every hurricane or flood allows for evacuation time.

 

Given that he was not in an evacuation area, he was even more wrong to leave. He should have gone to work even if not scheduled (since his home was safe) and helped evacuate the pts.  It is a major royal pain in the butt to evacuate medical pts and it is considered all hands on deck situation.   Even hospitals in the path of hurricanes find themselves weathering the storm with staff, their families,  and pts.   The police can leave, EMS can leave, the national guard can bail as well but nurses and doctors who are on the essential for survival list stay and do the work of everyone else. Staffing ratios are insane, hours are crazy, and we all work together to make sure pts are cared for and we get some freaking sleep.  It is part of the job. But I am in a hurricane prone area and flooding and hurricanes are par for the course.  Hospitals are prepared to evacuate as many as possible and keep only those unable to be moved reducing the required number of staff needed.  Every facility has a disaster preparedness team and protocol and he should have consulted it and followed it.  

[City Mouse]

Fron when i lived in Houston, a nurse of any kind would be expected to stay and work. Even if his home was evacuated, he would be expected to go to the work location and stay there during the storm. When the residents had to evacuate, he would have been expected to go with them.

 

I know a young couple who the wife is an EMT and husband is a firefighter, they both worked 5 days straight while their 4 yr old son stayed with relatives for the storm.

 

An unmarried nurse would absolutely be expected to stay and work, but that is just social expectations not legal.

Edited September 1, 2017 by City Mouse

[heartlikealion]

I think a lot of people wait til they know what day their business will close (or what final day they are scheduled to work before the storm is supposed to hit). But I can understand leaving town a little on the early side if you are afraid to be stuck on the interstate for 20 hours or whatever. I mean it's just going to be bumper to bumper and craziness.

 

It doesn't sound like he handled it the best way. Perhaps he should have spoken to someone about the earliest they would let him leave without frowning upon it. He made a decision to do what he wanted regardless of how it affected others... so I would say that decision needs to be made knowing you might cost yourself your job.

 

I didn't return to a job after a storm. I didn't have a way to (uniform got destroyed, homeless, car-less). I told them I had to go stay with my sister (out of state). I didn't make that plan til like a week or so had passed after the storm. I don't know how many days my work had been open when I told them (they didn't open immediately). I didn't use the words "quit" because I didn't want them to hold that against me. Anyway, I received unemployment and they tried to retract it. It was awful. I got a letter telling me I was going to have to go to court via telephone with a former manager. I was scared to death I was going to have to pay back all the money which I was in no position to pay back. My FEMA money hadn't come through til like a couple months because they kept having issues doing a direct deposit for me. I finally had to get them to snail mail me a check. Anyway, one manager said the other said I quit to go move with my sister before the storm. WHAT? That doesn't even make sense! lol. So luckily I didn't have to pay any money back. But it was stressful.

 

I think open communication with your superiors and coworkers is important. Sometimes leaving early means burdening everyone else. I worked at a newspaper for a few years. They lost power before I worked with them, I think because of the same hurricane? Anyway, they told me a couple of them did work for the newspaper from the hospital! I thought wow, guess it's that serious to get the paper out LOL I remember while I was working there it snowed (which is rare for MS) and since I didn't live far and it wasn't so bad, I did drive to work. Now, some people left early that day but I had not been given permission to and my boss wasn't around to check in with. I stayed my full shift. My boss was upset with my coworker for leaving early. I think the roads were no worse after work than before so it wasn't like I couldn't drive home.

 

My best guess is, if you can't get to/from work then it makes sense to tell your boss you can't come in or if your area is going to be badly affected and you need time to drive so you aren't stuck in that traffic and/or missing out on hotel rooms. I don't know if they let you do reservations or if it's first come first serve or what.

[QueenCat]

His employer has just cause to fire him. And I would, if I were the employer. You don't do that to the elderly. Selfish.

[Lanny]

His employer has just cause to fire him. And I would, if I were the employer. You don't do that to the elderly. Selfish.

Irresonsible and unprofessional for a health professional. If their is a professional oath or state license involved possibly a violation. He should move back to the Plains where he came from and where he is safer. The other employees where he is working are not going to forget or forgive what he did before or during Harvey.

 

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[FaithManor]

Necessary Medical staff are required to stay and weather the storm or help evacuate. All the places I have worked have a plan in place to help employees remain at the hospital and to help the employee's family find shelter. Nurses do not get to leave for their safety. It is called pt abandonment and it is not tolerated. Someone has to stay and take care of pts and someone has to go with them when they evacuate. And not every hurricane or flood allows for evacuation time.

 

Given that he was not in an evacuation area, he was even more wrong to leave. He should have gone to work even if not scheduled (since his home was safe) and helped evacuate the pts. It is a major royal pain in the butt to evacuate medical pts and it is considered all hands on deck situation. Even hospitals in the path of hurricanes find themselves weathering the storm with staff, their families, and pts. The police can leave, EMS can leave, the national guard can bail as well but nurses and doctors who are on the essential for survival list stay and do the work of everyone else. Staffing ratios are insane, hours are crazy, and we all work together to make sure pts are cared for and we get some freaking sleep. It is part of the job. But I am in a hurricane prone area and flooding and hurricanes are par for the course. Hospitals are prepared to evacuate as many as possible and keep only those unable to be moved reducing the required number of staff needed. Every facility has a disaster preparedness team and protocol and he should have consulted it and followed it.

Actually, in my state EMS cannot leave. At any time the governor can call all hands on deck and that's that. My Dd was trained to understand this and willing to serve.

[StephanieZ]

You can be fired for not showing up to your job. Even in weather disaster areas. Even during a state of emergency. 

 

I think it's reprehensible to "abandon your job" in that circumstance when your job involves caring for vulnerable people. 

 

Even veterinary hospitals can require staff to show up during blizzards, etc, and fire them if they don't show up. In those cases, we're just talking about animal lives. Human lives? Uh, nope, not OK, in my book, to run off unless your boss OK's it (in which case, presumably, that means they've got their staffing needs covered). 

 

If he worked for me, I'd fire him. I'd be very disgusted with him if he were my loved one, and I'd tell him so.

[Seasider]

In the coastal Gulf South, many hospital employees are told when accepting employment that hurricane warnings = mandatory report to work. Nurses and maintenance workers are considered essential personnel.

[brehon]

Necessary Medical staff are required to stay and weather the storm or help evacuate. All the places I have worked have a plan in place to help employees remain at the hospital and to help the employee's family find shelter. Nurses do not get to leave for their safety. It is called pt abandonment and it is not tolerated. Someone has to stay and take care of pts and someone has to go with them when they evacuate. And not every hurricane or flood allows for evacuation time.

 

Given that he was not in an evacuation area, he was even more wrong to leave. He should have gone to work even if not scheduled (since his home was safe) and helped evacuate the pts. It is a major royal pain in the butt to evacuate medical pts and it is considered all hands on deck situation. Even hospitals in the path of hurricanes find themselves weathering the storm with staff, their families, and pts. The police can leave, EMS can leave, the national guard can bail as well but nurses and doctors who are on the essential for survival list stay and do the work of everyone else. Staffing ratios are insane, hours are crazy, and we all work together to make sure pts are cared for and we get some freaking sleep. It is part of the job. But I am in a hurricane prone area and flooding and hurricanes are par for the course. Hospitals are prepared to evacuate as many as possible and keep only those unable to be moved reducing the required number of staff needed. Every facility has a disaster preparedness team and protocol and he should have consulted it and followed it.

As someone who works in EMS, let me assure you that I do *NOT* get to leave. When my boss, the county judge, the governor, or whomever calls me to duty, I have to show up. And if I physically can't drive to my appointed place, more than likely a fire truck or other heavy duty vehicle will pick me up. As a paramedic I'm considered Essential Personnel - I don't get to choose my response.

 

This isn't theoretical. In the last big multi-day ice/winter storm my area experienced, I had to stay at my station for 3 days. Normal operations and hours-worked restrictions were suspended.

Edited September 1, 2017 by brehon

[TX Native]

Nm

Edited September 3, 2017 by TX native

[JFSinIL]

He  needs to find another line of work pronto.  He is not cut out to take care of anyone. 

[Retired]

I've been a nurse for 25 years all the hospitals I have worked for had a disaster code.  We were all expected to be there/sleep there for the duration.  He would of been told this during orientation .   The hospital usually will hold off to call the code until they are sure.  Cause it cost a lot to house/feed a whole staff.  We are not paid to sleep time but meals are provided.  We are usually all ready 12 hours shift so we just literally have a opposite shift partner we shift cots with.  You don't' sleep much and its heck.  Cause then when its all over you are exhausted but still come back in for the regular grind.

 

I've never worked with a nurse that bailed during a disaster code. 

 

I've lived at hospital through hurricane and ice storms here in the south.  We were so short during a 90's ice storm I had to bring my kids.  They hospital set up child care.  

Edited September 1, 2017 by Cafelattee

[Lanny]

When I worked in the hospital as a nurse, I was required to report to work for any community disaster. Even if it was my day off. I am not sure what the policy would have been if I had been out of town for a planned vacation and there was no way to predict the community disaster before I left town. I would call in to work in that situation to at least verbally report why I wasn't there, and I would try to get there when and if possible. I KNOW I would not have been allowed last minute on-the-fly vacation time to leave because a disaster was possible in the area.

 

My grandma's retirement facility was fine in Houston. She just couldn't leave her floor, because the elevators weren't working the past few days. Even though it isn't a medical facility, I heard from my aunts the place was fully staffed and checking on the residents regularly to be sure they were okay-landlines weren't working and cell phone signals were sketchy. I would hate to think an able bodied employee at her facility went out of town to avoid the disaster, but left her stuck waiting longer to get carried down 6 flights of stairs were an immediate evacuation needed.

 

I am surprised your relative was not oriented to his job requirements regarding community disaster (be it weather, multi-vehicle car wreck, mass fire, terroism attack, etc.....) during new employee orientation. If he happened to be out of town on a planned vacation before the flooding was predicted and physically couldn't get back to town to report to work, that is a different story that would receive grace. But seeing the forecast, and taking off work to avoid the storm when he knew he would be needed if it got as bad as was predicted, I do not understand. ETA: I honestly don't mean to be rude about my attitude, I think your cousin just maybe young and a tad clueless and knows better for next time. However, if he keeps his job, I would not be surprised if the charge nurse gives him the heaviest and most challenging patient load each shift for a long while.

If he keeps his job as you wrote in the ETA... The OP said he graduated in May. I wonder if he should apologize and resign and omit that position from his resume. Assuming his license is not impacted.

 

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[melmichigan]

Medical facilities have fired and suspended nurses for not showing up, or refusing to work during hurricanes in the past.  This should be covered in the facilities policy, but nurses are critical personnel, and it was part of your cousins responsibility to be there to assist in the evacuation of patients.  

[TX Native]

If he keeps his job as you wrote in the ETA... The OP said he graduated in May. I wonder if he should apologize and resign and omit that position from his resume. Assuming his license is not impacted.

 

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I would guess he is still on probation period too, just now realizing that May was just 3 months ago even though it feels like an eternity ago.

[SKL]

Agreeing with most - he should have known he might be needed to help evacuate patients who needed assistance.

 

Also I feel that unless he needed to be elsewhere, he should have put his professional skills to use helping others who did need to be evacuated, when he wasn't at work helping his own patients.

[Ottakee]

When I worked as a cook and dietary aide at a nursing home I was considered essential staff. I never had to but several of my co-workers had to spend several days staying at the facility to make sure that the food needs were met.

[HomeAgain]

My husband works in a facility that needs round the clock attention.  Needs.  Vital to wellbeing, type of need.  We have already established our plan here. In case of evacuation, possible or mandatory, I will immediately take the household and go.  He will go into his work building with a suitcase and cot.  Someone needs to be at his work and we are the closest family living near his building. 

 

There are many jobs like his around the country, where infrastructure will fail if it doesn't have workers on site.  I don't think it would ever even be a question of should he evacuate because it's just not a line of thinking that works for his situation.  Now, if he worked at Walmart or Sears?  Yeah, we'd all get out of Dodge.

[KarenC]

Just out of curiosity, who did he think would take care of his patients?

[Katy]

Goodness, even nurse's aides are typically taught that in the event of a disaster they may need to stay in the nursing home or hospital for the duration.

 

He seriously needs to re-evaluate his line of work.  If his life comes above all the patients, he's not in the right field. 

 

 

ETA:  it is possible he will lose his license for this, but not likely unless he left mid-shift to evacuate and didn't wait for relief.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Katy

[linders]

Well, I agree with Prairie - he should have stayed. His help prior to the mandatory evac, then readying the residents for evac, was an important part of the job. I don't get the sense that he was worried about family that he needed to take care of, this was just about him taking care of himself.

[athomeontheprairie]

Some background: My cousin comes from a crappy family background. His mom tried to murder him when he was 16. He went to live with his grandparents where he stayed until his grandma died. When he came out at 18 his grandpa (my uncle) kicked him out - or... STRONGLY encouraged him to leave. My family has been the only family on this side of his family that has kept in contact. My parents have tried to be there for him. Helping him here and there, giving advice, staying in touch. Things parents should do.

He's in his mid 20's and can't hold a job. He has 2, maybe 3 degrees, but while he is book smart he struggles with implementing knowledge into action. When he has failed to find and found a job with one degree he's just gone back to college for something else. If memory serves correctly, his mom was on drugs during her pregnancy. kwim?

 

My mom won't talk to him about this. She's called to make sure he's safe, but she's ticked off that he left those residents. So am I! The only communication I've had with him is through messenger. I've tried to point out that leaving was a bad choice, that his job needed him, those people needed him. He left too early-if such a thing can be. He's been with his current partner maybe 8 months, and they moved to TX about 2-3 months ago. There are no kids involved.

I didn't know that some places will provide housing during a storm-though I suppose I should. Both my bil and sil work EMT and stay overnight during emergencies (of the KS variety).

 

And Lanny, I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. The whole thing just pisses me off!

[Xahm]

It was a really boneheaded thing to do, but if it were my relative, I'd try to be gracious to someone who is still figuring out how to be an adult. There will be enough people in his life ticked at him over this. As an older, hopefully wiser, family member, I would see it as my role to help him use this as a learning and growing opportunity so that he will do better next time. Help him with what he could say to his boss to admit that he did wrong by freaking out and leaving, but that he would now like to do what he can to make it right. Prepare him for the idea that he will face consequences, and that accepting those consequences graciously will help his employer see that he has grown from this and is unlikely to do something so foolish again.

[SKL]

Does he need mental health services, or just need to grow up?

 

While he made a poor choice, it isn't unusual for young people to do that, especially if he has no good guidance from people who care about him.  The fact that he felt no qualms about leaving might be because he had people leave him when they shouldn't have.  But he may just be like many young people who have to try and fail a few things before they figure out a career.

[heartlikealion]

It was a really boneheaded thing to do, but if it were my relative, I'd try to be gracious to someone who is still figuring out how to be an adult. There will be enough people in his life ticked at him over this. As an older, hopefully wiser, family member, I would see it as my role to help him use this as a learning and growing opportunity so that he will do better next time. Help him with what he could say to his boss to admit that he did wrong by freaking out and leaving, but that he would now like to do what he can to make it right. Prepare him for the idea that he will face consequences, and that accepting those consequences graciously will help his employer see that he has grown from this and is unlikely to do something so foolish again.

 

Good idea. Maybe he could offer to work shifts people don't want or stay late or whatever to compensate. Especially if other staff members worked extra hours. Even if they didn't work extra hours, they may have had to do more work if they were short staffed.

[goldberry]

Agreeing with everyone else, but I also wonder if the facility made their policies clear to him.  He might not have just "automatically known" based on what you are describing about him.  The facility could be partially at fault.

[TechWife]

Even though he has had a tough background, I am sure his employer covered disaster protocol during the orientation. Due to the location, hurricanes were probably mentioned as an example. It is also likely they reviewed the protocol via team meetings,  email or other communication as the storm approached. If he was not willing to take the risk, he shouldn't have taken the job. 

 

I volunteer at a hospital and I know the disaster protocol in regards to who can leave and who can work as well as which conference rooms become dorm rooms. My position is non-essential so I wouldn't be expected to show up in a disaster and I wouldn't be expected to stay. If I were there and chose to stay, I have no doubt I would be put to work, but I would be provided a cot on a space available basis, with preference being given to essential employees. 

[ErinE]

It was a really boneheaded thing to do, but if it were my relative, I'd try to be gracious to someone who is still figuring out how to be an adult. There will be enough people in his life ticked at him over this. As an older, hopefully wiser, family member, I would see it as my role to help him use this as a learning and growing opportunity so that he will do better next time. Help him with what he could say to his boss to admit that he did wrong by freaking out and leaving, but that he would now like to do what he can to make it right. Prepare him for the idea that he will face consequences, and that accepting those consequences graciously will help his employer see that he has grown from this and is unlikely to do something so foolish again.

 

I think this is a great post. It may not save the relative's job, but the boss might be willing to extend grace if he's contrite enough. He probably has enough people questioning his decision making that it would be helpful if someone else could guide him through the correct steps to take next time.

[Lanny]

Agreeing with everyone else, but I also wonder if the facility made their policies clear to him.  He might not have just "automatically known" based on what you are describing about him.  The facility could be partially at fault.

 

And the school he went to?   It sounds like they left out the part about the responsibility someone in that profession has to their patients. Morals? Character? Decency?   All missing?  Probably not a good school of Nursing...

 

No decent man or woman in his profession would do what he did.

 

Good that he isn't in the military, where he would face disciplinary action for what he did.

[goldberry]

And the school he went to? It sounds like they left out the part about the responsibility someone in that profession has to their patients. Morals? Character? Decency? All missing? Probably not a good school of Nursing...

 

No decent man or woman in his profession would do what he did.

 

Good that he isn't in the military, where he would face disciplinary action for what he did.

Well, maybe you didn't do anything stupid or morally questionable in your youth, but lots of us have, so... chill.

[Lanny]

Well, maybe you didn't do anything stupid or morally questionable in your youth, but lots of us have, so... chill.

 

Yes, but he chose to become a Caregiver, and then he abandoned his patients.  There are big moral and ethical and professional decisions that he made, that he should not have made. As one or more posters have mentioned, his license may be in jeopardy.   He should not have become a Caregiver, because his priority is himself and not his patients.  

[bettyandbob]

When I first read this I assumed

1. The person was truly clueless about Hurricanes

2. Didn't know his work policies

3. Selfish

 

All these things I think are still true.

 

Having worked in multiple settings and witnessed employee training, it often depends on who is doing the training. Someone who has lived in Houston for some time and thinks reporting to work is obvious may not emphasize that. I could easily see some emergency procedures just skipped by the person who thinks they are obvious. I say this because I've had to go back and retrain people after stuff like this is skipped.

 

Selfish is harder. It is likely routed in the poor upbringing the OP described later. If he is willing to accept coaching on successful management of job and professional behavior and there is someone close to him who will assist him and regularly check in, he might improve in his decision making. He going to have to see there is a problem. He's going to have to trust others. He may not have an ability to trust people (where does part of your soul go after your mother tried to kill you?). I don't know that doing the work will make him truly unselfish, but at least he'd learn rules for behavior.

 

I don't know where you go to relearn empathy after trauma --just guessing childhood trauma is part of the problem.