A question if you put your child(ren) in Sunday School... The letter post #63

[3 ladybugs]

Do you stay with them? I mean assuming you are not the teacher. 

 

We got a letter from the church that we go to last week and my husband was offended by it. I just figure it is yet something else that I need to do on Sunday. It states that the church wants to make Sunday school more family centered and not church centered and to do this we need to have a parent (or grandparent... so in our case a parent as the nearest relative is 1200 miles away) with every child every week. That we will be learning bible stories together so we can "apply them to our everyday lives". We will also be encouraged to continue the learning at home with brief at home activities. They will also allow for "mentor parents" if older people want to help and don't have children/grandchildren. 

 

I understand that we need to take an active roll in children's education but they have adult education (bible study) at the same time. So I guess parents can't go to that if they have more then one child (or are a single parent). I also don't understand what I should do with my 3 year old if I don't feel he is ready for sunday school (he would probably do fine without me, but with me there he will not focus and just want to play... as he has been doing so for a couple years now during that time). 

 

This just seems very odd to me. I guess we will find out how it is on Sunday, but I wanted to see what other parents (especially homeschool parents) thought. My DH is sort of the mind set that we should just educate our older son at home and wait till he is confirmation age to put him in church classes... but they say that even confirmation and high school students should have an adult with them. This is for preschool through high school. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by 3 ladybugs

[desertflower]

I have 3 children, so we are outnumbered generally in most things.  :)

 

Where I attend, it is not necessary to stay with the child during class because as you say there is adult bible class as well or I teach another class.  I stay with my 3 1/2 yo as needed because she wants me too. 

 

I don't see the need to stay with them during class if the child doesn't need you. 

 

Our children do stay with us during services though. 

 

So sorry that you received that letter.  I hope you guys get a better understanding of things. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

So this church wants families with two parents, two kids, as the norm. And they want parents who don't need adult bible studies, themselves.

 

I'd be thinking, "Good to know," and start looking for another church that is more inclusive.

[mathmarm]

I guess we will find out how it is on Sunday, but I wanted but they say that even confirmation and high school students should have an adult with them. This is for preschool through high school.

That is unbelievably absurd. How is that even logical?

[shawthorne44]

I doubt that will last long.    There is a reason that DD's dance has parent's watch days and bans the parents all other days.  Parents are distracting.   Even in soccer for example, when the parents are there, parent-child interaction is definitely discouraged.  

 

Our church sends home a sheet on what they learned in Sunday School.   I am just teaching her the Bible as part of our homeschool, so it is already a part of our daily life.   

[shawthorne44]

That is unbelievably absurd. How is that even logical?

 

I know!   At our church they are helpers in the little kid's class.  

[Calm37]

That is called a "family integration" model. Although many people prefer this type of Sunday school, I don't see how it is wise for your church to transition to this at all once. It would be better to start one class with interested families. Perhaps this could be suggested as a stop-gap measure just to see how things go? When I was homeschooling full-time with young kids, I really looked forward to having that one hour a week to have a class with my husband. I had already had enough family integration at home!

[Heatherwith4]

If you like your church otherwise, then I would wait a bit. I seriously doubt this will last.

[AMJ]

Do you stay with them? I mean assuming you are not the teacher. 

 

We got a letter from the church that we go to last week and my husband was offended by it. I just figure it is yet something else that I need to do on Sunday. It states that the church wants to make Sunday school more family centered and not church centered and to do this we need to have a parent (or grandparent... so in our case a parent as the nearest relative is 1200 miles away) with every child every week. That we will be learning bible stories together so we can "apply them to our everyday lives". We will also be encouraged to continue the learning at home with brief at home activities. They will also allow for "mentor parents" if older people want to help and don't have children/grandchildren. 

 

I understand that we need to take an active roll in children's education but they have adult education (bible study) at the same time. So I guess parents can't go to that if they have more then one child (or are a single parent). I also don't understand what I should do with my 3 year old if I don't feel he is ready for sunday school (he would probably do fine without me, but with me there he will not focus and just want to play... as he has been doing so for a couple years now during that time). 

 

This just seems very odd to me. I guess we will find out how it is on Sunday, but I wanted to see what other parents (especially homeschool parents) thought. My DH is sort of the mind set that we should just educate our older son at home and wait till he is confirmation age to put him in church classes... but they say that even confirmation and high school students should have an adult with them. This is for preschool through high school. 

 

 

Unless they are holding ONE class for ALL ages this simply isn't workable.  And trying to hold one class for all ages will have the bulk of the attendees distracted by the younger kids.

 

If that were my church I'd send a polite letter back explaining just how unrealistic this expectation is and give explicit examples.  Basically it puts the parents in the position of either neglecting the Sunday Schooling of some family members in favor of others, or simply opting out of Sunday School entirely.  Which would your church prefer?

 

 

When I was growing up I attended Catholic schools (daily religion class and weekly chapel!), so the only Sunday School I attended was for confirmation, and that was held on a Saturday evening.  Even so I knew many kids who attended public school and we swapped notes on what sort of religious education we were receiving.  I had never heard of parents being required to attend class with their students, though I'm sure they would have happily conscripted any parent who showed an inclination to do so.  It was just assumed that parents used Sunday School time to take care of babies and toddlers, and/or saw to their own spiritual and social needs until classes let out.  There was ample "family religion time" taking place in the homes the rest of the week.

[Bluegoat]

There is a movement that promotes this sort of model in my denomination.  tHe idea is that it will get families in together doing things and attract people who might not come otherwise.  I've been pretty unimpressed with what I've seen, because honestly it doesn't really come out as good CHristian education for anyone.  It's more like a fellowship activity. 

 

If I wanted to be more integrated I'd make my kids sit through the Eucharist service with me - and in fact I think that can be the best option for places where it is possible to have Sunday School at a separate time. 

 

The reason from my perspective to have different Christian ed programs for adults and kids is that they have different needs. Sunday school for kids is not going to fulfill the parent's needs.

 

That being said, in some places I think it can also be part of an effort to get parents involved in their kids Christian ed, which is almost impossible to do in a short time each week.  But for a lot of kids, that is it.  I'm not convinced it is the way to go, though.

[3 ladybugs]

I guess I should state a bit of where we are coming from. 

 

I was baptized as an adult in the faith that we are now. Typically babies are baptized in this faith. When I met DH he was his faith from birth. There are highly devout people in his family. I figured it was close enough and converted 2 weeks prior to our wedding. Life happened and we ended up living in the community where I was baptized. So we went to 2 churches for a while. Then politics in the 2 churches changed to the point that we couldn't go there anymore to either. This is very much over simplifying. Anyway, we tried very hard to stay what I converted to and went to a couple of other churches. Doctrine came down though that we didn't agree with and one day my DH basically said he didn't want to go to church anymore. I was not going to accept that. So I went looking and looking and finally convinced him to try the church that we now go to. We converted as a family about a month before I had our youngest and he was baptized there. So my youngest and I are baptized the same faith. DH and our oldest (and our 3 lost children) are all baptized in the other faith.

 

This is a long way of saying, we can't leave this church. We REALLY have no where else to go. It takes us 30 minutes to get to church from our home now. If we leave this church there is a VERY good chance we will become unchurched. I am hoping this doesn't come to this. 

 

They will have 3 classes they say. Preschool, K-Elementary, and Jr and Sr. high. I live in NJ you would think they would realize that this state is very transient and many people don't have family near by. Yes some do, but a good portion, don't. They say they talked to parents about this but we were never talked to. We have had our older son in Sunday school every week. Seriously I bet he could have got a perfect attendance a couple of years in a row, if they handed those out. There have been days where he is there and no one else. 

 

I think I will give it a try on Sunday, and if we don't like it then we can continue the religious education at home. I am thinking of ordering the bible study from Classical Academic Press. My younger son gets bible study as part of his curriculum. It is an add on but I have been happy with it... hence me not worried about him not attending Sunday school. Oh and we are going to church this week, but the following week we have our 1 and only camping trip this year. Dh had surgery this year and it killed our summer fun. :( However this means we have 2 weeks to mull over what we saw and learned. 

[Guest]

I guess I'm thinking if the parents and kids aren't separated out and everyone is studying together isn't that just......regular church? without the option for age appropriate in depth Bible study? I'd find a new church I think. Either one where everyone goes to service together, or one where you get your adult Bible study and they have their kids' study separately. 

[Rachel]

I get what they are trying to do but it sounds like it wasn't implemented well at all. I would give it a try for a month before making changes in attending. The first Sunday they do it will have some kinks that need to be worked out. After a month reevaluate.

[Wheres Toto]

That seems odd to me and not just because what happens to the people with three or more kids?

 

Sunday School at our church (UMC) is during the worship service for Pre-K through 8th grade.  The kids stay for the first 15 or so minutes, then have time up front to discuss something and then leave for class.  Middle school stays in church on the first Sunday (Communion Sunday).

 

Most of our classes we have three or four teachers that teach on a rotating basis.  Many of them do teach the class with their child in it, especially the younger kids.  I teach one of the more difficult classes and the coordinator and I are the only teachers so we are going to alternate months.  Last year my son was in my class, this year my daughter will be.

[Ellie]

Do you stay with them? I mean assuming you are not the teacher. 

 

We got a letter from the church that we go to last week and my husband was offended by it. I just figure it is yet something else that I need to do on Sunday. It states that the church wants to make Sunday school more family centered and not church centered and to do this we need to have a parent (or grandparent... so in our case a parent as the nearest relative is 1200 miles away) with every child every week. That we will be learning bible stories together so we can "apply them to our everyday lives". We will also be encouraged to continue the learning at home with brief at home activities. They will also allow for "mentor parents" if older people want to help and don't have children/grandchildren. 

 

I understand that we need to take an active roll in children's education but they have adult education (bible study) at the same time. So I guess parents can't go to that if they have more then one child (or are a single parent). I also don't understand what I should do with my 3 year old if I don't feel he is ready for sunday school (he would probably do fine without me, but with me there he will not focus and just want to play... as he has been doing so for a couple years now during that time). 

 

This just seems very odd to me. I guess we will find out how it is on Sunday, but I wanted to see what other parents (especially homeschool parents) thought. My DH is sort of the mind set that we should just educate our older son at home and wait till he is confirmation age to put him in church classes... but they say that even confirmation and high school students should have an adult with them. This is for preschool through high school. 

 

No, never.

 

Like you, I think of Sunday school as a time when everyone gets to have age-appropriate faith formation.

 

I'm not sure I would be "offended" by this new program, but I'm pretty sure it might be a deal-breaker for me.

[Emmalm]

I am a pastor's wife and former Sunday School Superintendent in a large mainline denomination, though we will probably be making a move to a different denomination after this call ends. Coming from that background, I would like to humbly say, try to humbly put yourself in the shoes of whoever is in charge of Sunday School and to understand where they are coming from.

 

A few statistics and examples:

The largest growing religious group in America are the "nones," meaning, when they are asked their religion on documents they check the 'none' box.

Today you are considered a 'regular' church attender if you go once a month.

And the number of drive-by Sunday Schoolings, as I like to call them (people who simply drop off their kids at the door, leave, and pick them up when it is done without ever setting foot in the church) is, frankly, ridiculous and frightening.

My husband had a funeral for a young man this past week and he over heard this conversation: young adult 1, "what is heaven?" Young adult 2, " I don't know."

Kids in his confirmation class only knew who Adam and Eve were because of the Simpsons.

 

This is the religious atmosphere most children are growing up in. I took the job as Sunday School Superintendent because no one else wanted to do it and I thought, "well, if the parents aren't going to care for their children's immortal souls, someone needs to!" And that is basically what is driving the somewhat desperate-feeling Sunday School changes sweeping through churches. I stepped down for political and sanity reasons (our family's life is already the church, we needed space; and to spare the church falling apart when we leave because he and I were doing everything). Most, sounds like not all of you who have responded, parents do not give their children any Biblical teaching at home. They do not know how, among other reasons. This movement of cross-generational Christian education, which I think good to an extent but in which I do see flaws, is an attempt to help equip parents to be able to teach their kids at home and to try to make them a part of what they learn in SundaynSchool. There is no way one hour at most a week will ground these children in their faith and teach them to live for Jesus. Parents need to take action. Period.

That being said, most homeschoolers, yourselves included as it sounds, do take their faith seriously and do have some sort of Biblical curriculum at home. Thank you! But you are not the norm. Please tell your husband that the people in charge of Sunday School do not aim to offend or make Sundays busier. It is unfortunate it is scheduled during adult education time. When to hold Sunday School is a whole other topic fraught with anxiety and frustration! If it is impossible for you to attend with your children, please do kindly tell someone in charge. Maybe suggest it happens once a month, that is what we are trying, I guess, if they have Sunday School here this year! But know they are trying desperately to fight against the secular culture and do what they can for these kids. And if all else fails and you don't like what they are doing, go ahead and volunteer to do it next year! 😉

 

One more thing, if you are interested there is a book called "Killing Sunday School" you might find interesting. I *think* they have it on CBD.

[lllll]

nm

Edited October 5, 2016 by 1' n'ye

[3 ladybugs]

I think that is what is funny about the situation though. I wasn't expecting my son to learn that much. He is 8 in a few weeks after all. However we have had discussions at home and he is clearly getting something out of Sunday school. I have been afraid, based on what we have been through and my coming to faith later then most, to teach our children anything religious. Until very recently, I didn't feel qualified. 

 

I would think that there is a happy medium though with these 2 pulling forces. For parents that are ALWAYS in church every Sunday and who go to adult bible study I would think that would be encouraged. There is a retired pastor that goes to our church with his wife and 3 grandchildren. He and his wife go to adult classes and his grandchildren go to sunday school. I am unsure what they are going to do... though I do think that 2 of the children will be in the same class at least. We also have a father who is never in worship but always brings his son and never attends adult classes. I could see how this could be good for him. But I don't see how we should be "punished" because of someone else's lack of bringing it home. 

 

 

[lllll]

nm 

 

Edited October 5, 2016 by 1' n'ye

[LMCme]

Maybe try it out and see what happens?  Probably won't be the end of the world in any case.  Part of being in community with others is sometimes going along with things that might not be your first preference, giving it some time to work and, if after a while it really isn't working to then respectfully approach whoever is in charge of such things and let them know what is going on.

 

LMCme

[TABmom]

Uh, no. They won't let someone who hasn't been background checked into the room! If you're not a parent, you can't even walk down the hallway where the kid classes/nurseries are. (They have "bouncers" checking that you have a sticker that you get when you sign in) I would think it would be very inconvenient to background check every single parent. And what of the children whose parent can't pass a background check? No Sunday school for them?

[Mama Geek]

I would probably bring the kids to the adult class before going to a kids class with them.  The way I have seen family integrated Sunday school is that way anyway not parents going to a kids class to be with the kid.  

[KrissiK]

Wow! I have never heard of that.i don't like that idea. I love our adult Sunday School class. We are able to discuss things on an adult level and have very good lessons. We have a real "iron sharpening iron" atmosphere. I would be very resentful if I had to sit in on my children's classes. Besides, one of the reasons I put my kids in Sunday School is so they can be taught by someone else in the faith. I am familiar with certain curriculum that is coordinated across the generations, so that when families get home they can discuss, but each age is generally in their own Sunday School Class.

[vonfirmath]

Wow! I have never heard of that.i don't like that idea. I love our adult Sunday School class. We are able to discuss things on an adult level and have very good lessons. We have a real "iron sharpening iron" atmosphere. I would be very resentful if I had to sit in on my children's classes. Besides, one of the reasons I put my kids in Sunday School is so they can be taught by someone else in the faith. I am familiar with certain curriculum that is coordinated across the generations, so that when families get home they can discuss, but each age is generally in their own Sunday School Class.

 

We have this in many of the Sunday School classes in our church. So our adult SS class is learning the same lesson the kids are learning 1st-6th (not sure if the youth use the same curriculum or not). The Preschool do not use it.  But it is neat to discuss with our 4th grader and its the same stories, even if different things are discussed/focused on at the different levels.

 

I do wonder where they plan to get Sunday School teachers from if parents have to stay with their kids in the class.  Currently, most of our SS teachers are also parents of kids in different classes. (So a couple in our class teach 2nd graders though they do not currently have a 2nd grader).  I know we have left a church in the past that had lots of SS for the kids but nothing for the adults. We were at a stage where we needed the companionship and regular fellowship of other adults.

[3 ladybugs]

They are increasing fellowship in general. They are doing a hymn sing/potluck this month and a reformation day movie/dinner next month. So there are other times for us to have fellowship. Services children are encouraged to attend and we have a cry room should a child need it (not for my 3 year old of coarse, he is always a perfect angel  :lol: , yeah I have the room memorized!). They have children's sermons a few times during the year, at least once a month. We have 2 services during the school year so SS and adult bible study is between the 2 services. There is a mens prayer time during the week before normal working hours (DH can't go because of how far we are from the church), and a woman's bible study during the day during the week (I can't go with 2 kids). During Advent and during Lent there is midweek services and for lent (maybe for Advent too) there is soup and salad potluck before services. 

 

It is one of the largest congregations (I think it is 1 or 2) for our denomination in the state. So large that there is talk that we may call up a part time pastor to help out (he would be part time with a struggling church in the area). We had a Seminary student this last year doing student pastoring (again part time). We travel 30 minutes to get there, but there are others that travel even farther. 

 

I am not exactly sure what the thought process was for this. I was hoping that this was something that was decided without careful thought as it would be easier to dismiss that way, however it says in the letter that they even went and visited a church that is successfully doing this. :( I don't know that it will work for my children but I don't think we would be kicked out of the church if I just taught them at home. After all I think that is what their intent is:  "... move towards being more home-centered, church supported in our faith formation efforts." They also quoted Deuteronomy 6:6-8 in the letter. 

[Tess in the Burbs]

It seems weird b/c what do families with more than 2 kids do?  Or a single parent?  Are they rotating through kid classes, never getting their own class? 

 

I will say, long ago I volunteered in Children's Church.  Apparently there was a kid with behavior issues that came from time to time.  They weren't members but when they did come they gave $$.  So no one wanted to point out the kid needed a parent in the room.  I went upstairs and was shocked to find 3 other parents had followed us upstairs.  I was told by whisper to be careful of this boy.  I had already told him to sit quietly while the kids took turns saying prayer requests and then to wait his turn to use scissors.  During free play it all went to heck.  I had no clue he didn't like to be told no or how to behave.  I'm so thankful those other parents stayed with me.  Partly they stayed to protect their own kids.  Partly to see what else this kid would do....

 

Some kid had a toy he wanted and he went full blown crazy to get it.  Parents were grabbing kids and putting them all into the bathroom so they could shut and lock the door to keep this kid from hurting the kids or the adults.  It was SCARY.  

 

After that day...and 3 large men had to hold him down while they went to pull an adult out of service to come upstairs...certain kids did have to have parents with them at all times.  They never came back.  

 

 

I did attend a church with a rotation of parents, required.  But a letter like yours makes you wonder if it's everyone or just you.  I would inquire more.  And make friends with the person making the policy.  Something has to have triggered this...

 

ETA:  I know in scouting we have had to ask some parents to stay in the room with their kids.  Some kids just need more help in social situations.  I hope it's not a targeted letter.  But it's strange how they would force it to work . 

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by tess in the burbs

[3 ladybugs]

I sit in the classroom next to this classroom, they share a single stall bathroom between the class rooms, so most of the time both doors are open), with my younger son routinely. If this was JUST my son, I would think that I would have heard it. My son does say off the wall things, you know the things that make you just want to dig a hole and hide when your kid says them if you were in the room with them, but nothing that honestly I haven't heard other children say in other contexts. 

 

I will listen and see if I can find out what prompted this. From what I have seen, nothing was prompting it. I was even asked towards the end of last school year to listen in on a class because the teacher wasn't sure of the children and she was new. I am always down there so I did. I didn't hear anything out of the ordinary then either and the teacher said as much. 

 

I know early on they were a bit frustrated with my son because he wasn't doing handwriting very well. This is a skill that was just delayed in him. So writing was challenging for him for longer then they expected. He writes wonderfully now though. He wasn't writing well at 5 though. 

[Peaceful Isle]

My kids go to their own Sunday school classes,and I don't go with them. I either go to my Sunday school class, play the piano for my church, or work in nursery Sunday mornings.

I also teach a kids club midweek. I don't need or even think parents should be in the classroom. Parents need to learn or serve other ways.

 

It sounds to me like you need to either find a new church.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Peacefulisle

[Emmalm]

I think that is what is funny about the situation though. I wasn't expecting my son to learn that much. He is 8 in a few weeks after all. However we have had discussions at home and he is clearly getting something out of Sunday school. I have been afraid, based on what we have been through and my coming to faith later then most, to teach our children anything religious. Until very recently, I didn't feel qualified. 

 

I would think that there is a happy medium though with these 2 pulling forces. For parents that are ALWAYS in church every Sunday and who go to adult bible study I would think that would be encouraged. There is a retired pastor that goes to our church with his wife and 3 grandchildren. He and his wife go to adult classes and his grandchildren go to sunday school. I am unsure what they are going to do... though I do think that 2 of the children will be in the same class at least. We also have a father who is never in worship but always brings his son and never attends adult classes. I could see how this could be good for him. But I don't see how we should be "punished" because of someone else's lack of bringing it home.

 

 

 

I do feel for you. I would not want to miss the adult ed hour, and would feel it was redundant to go there with my kid since we are doing it at home. I do hope you don't really feel this as punishment, as they are really just trying to do their best for the kids. And if you DO go, you never know what you could do for another kid, or parent for that matter. You never know how you can bless people Again I encourage you to have a discussion with whoever is in charge about it. Every Sunday, all those parents in the room is excessive. A church nearby is combining all ages whether they are grandparents, parents, children, alone or in a family for education hour. It might not be as deep as if it were just for adults, but I guess the people like it.

 

 

I would probably bring the kids to the adult class before going to a kids class with them.  The way I have seen family integrated Sunday school is that way anyway not parents going to a kids class to be with the kid.

 

Totally would do this. As long as kids aren't a nuisance they can't stop you! I hate to say nuisance as I love having kids in church, but when they do get to be too lively for others to hear (as my own dear son did this past week trying to sing the hymns when his daddy was preaching) I do think they should be....redirected!

[Susan in TX]

We have gone to churches that have had "family" Sunday School which means that the children and the parents all go to Sunday School together. But if I was attending a church that had separate graded kids sunday school classes and they wanted me to attend with my child every week, I would find another church.

 

Susan in TX

[SKL]

I wouldn't like that at all.  I take my kids to church.  Sunday School is age-specific and I like to go to the adult classes.  For a long time it was my only "me" time all week.

 

Do most of the families in your church only have 1 kid per parent?  Or are they thinking you will rotate and be with each kid part of the time / every 2 or 3 weeks?

 

Don't they think it's also important for us adults to stretch our minds spiritually?  How'm I going to do that in a class designed for little kids?

 

I could kind of see them having an occasional session with the parents and kids together.  Maybe take a break from the adult course and have the parents sit in on a review of stories and concepts covered in the kiddy class.  Or not.  Don't most Sunday schools have handouts so the parents can see what the kids have learned?

[kiwik]

Our kids have Sunday School during the service. If we all had to go with them there would be no-one in the church.

[sweetpea3829]

Like many others said...no, our church has a separate class for different age groups.  My husband and I attend the class for folks with kids (usually a class focused on marriage/parenting issues) and the kids attend their classes.  There's also a main group in the sanctuary for everybody else.  

 

 

Back before they started the "Amazing Phase" group, which is the class DH and I attend, we use to drop the kids off for their class and go have breakfast together.  It was the only alone time we'd have all week, not counting after the kids went to bed.  

[3 ladybugs]

Punished may have been too strong of a word. However I think we are seeing what the majority of people on here are seeing. What value will it be for any of us? My children may hear a bible story. Okay. My youngest hears a bible story every day in his school time. Yesterday we started reading about baby Moses and he told me "Babies can't be thrown in the water! They need a boat!" :) We also sang a single bible verse that I am sure he will have memorized by the end of the week, let alone the end of the month (he learns one a month). My older son I am not currently doing any bible work with. So I ordered last night something to change that. As adults, I doubt that we will be encouraged to ask to many theological questions. Seeing how I came to my faith "late in life" I am always asking things that stump the pastor, so I am sure that I would be a bother if I asked any questions. 

 

So then we are left with the age old "socialization" issue. Is an hour (if that) really going to provide a child that much socialization? I guess it is better then nothing. Hmmm... I am just thinking that we could come home and cook a big Sunday breakfast in that time and spend the hour better making family memories. Though I guess my DH and I get the short end of the stick spiritually. 

[Sherry in OH]

That is called a "family integration" model. Although many people prefer this type of Sunday school, I don't see how it is wise for your church to transition to this at all once. It would be better to start one class with interested families. Perhaps this could be suggested as a stop-gap measure just to see how things go? When I was homeschooling full-time with young kids, I really looked forward to having that one hour a week to have a class with my husband. I had already had enough family integration at home!

 

I guess I don't see the point of this model of Sunday School.  As mentioned by a previous poster, the church service is already family integrated.  Why not just add a section to the bulletin listing suggestions for home application of the week's lesson? Or, if the church leaders think a more 'family-friendly' church service is needed, offer that as an alternative to the tradiitional service.

[Ellie]

I guess I don't see the point of this model of Sunday School.  As mentioned by a previous poster, the church service is already family integrated.  Why not just add a section to the bulletin listing suggestions for home application of the week's lesson? Or, if the church leaders think a more 'family-friendly' church service is needed, offer that as an alternative to the tradiitional service.

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I understand what a pp is saying about the church wanting to help families grow together, instead of kids just being dropped off without parents becoming part of the church community.

 

Getting everyone together for spiritual education is a laudable motivation, but the implementation is all wrong. They can't keep a graded Sunday school and implement a family-integrated Sunday school all in the same effort. Obviously parents can't be everywhere at once. Also, parents need to learn, too.

 

I visited a Lutheran church once (as part of a visiting musical group) where the pastor had the same concerns but handled it differently: The children did have a graded Sunday school system, and the adults had their Bible class, too. But at the beginning of the worship service, in the sanctuary, a lady came up and taught a short Sunday school lesson to the entire church together. She reviewed some information, led them in a children's song, and taught the Bible story. It took about 10 minutes.

The point was to show the children that the things they were learning in Sunday school were needed by Christians of all ages, and that families learn together with their bigger church family. The pastor also included a great deal of doctrinal teaching in his sermon. Education was a big deal in this church, but they used the time and platform they already had -- the Sunday school and the pulpit -- to try to reach families more effectively.

[forty-two]

I understand entirely why you are not thrilled with this model - it doesn't seem all that well-thought-out. Our church wanted to do something similar to both get parents and kids on the same page, and to foster friendships among the parents, and the original proposal was a joint opening, parents and kids (3yo-6th grade), before everyone split off into individual classes (with parents having their own parent class). But when dh, one of the pastors, asked for my feedback, I criticized the whole opening (such an age range - very hard to do well imo) and parents effectively *required* to be there (although the arrangement only required one parent for all the kids). And they changed it to an adult class studying the same Bible story, but at an adult level, which I think it is a much better approach.

 

And, as someone who has spent the past five out of six years in little-kid Sunday school (a combo of several iterations of Parents & Twos and two years in preschool SS because my youngest wouldn't go without me), I was *beyond* ready to go to an adult class this year. (Although I did make good friends with the other parents in the parents & twos classes.)

 

That said, I don't really understand why you are planning to quit Sunday School entirely over this - I mean, it sounds like your dc were going before, and I don't see how your kids will get any *less* value out of this new arrangement than they were getting before, with the old one. And while ITU not wanting to be in little kid class for the duration, if you just don't go, you and your dh will *also* be getting zero adult class time. And if you do go, you will be in a much better place to offer feedback and maybe get it turned into something better for everyone. Maybe you and your dh could switch off - one goes to one kid's class while the other goes to adult class, and then the next week the other parent goes to the other kid's class while the first parent goes to adult class (if you have three or more kids, two separate cycles, rotating through all the kid classes while alternating which parent goes to adult classes).

[Bluegoat]

What strikes me about trying to get parents more involved this way is that if their own faith formation isn't happening at an adult level, how are they supposed to be in a position to really support their children's formation at home?  It seems like this would only work if there was also seperate adult time.

 

I would bet that the idea that every child needs an adult will fall by the wayside - for those with more kids than adults it will be impossible and it will soon become obvious.

[3 ladybugs]

The model only works if you have only one child and you are a 2 parent household. Otherwise someone is going to be left out. 

 

If I were Queen for a day, I would have them make all parents attend adult classes. Have the adult classes be tied to the children's classes and the same effect would happen at an age appropriate way. 

 

That is if they were truly concerned about the education and we are not talking about potentially problem children. 

[shawthorne44]

Our kids have Sunday School during the service. If we all had to go with them there would be no-one in the church.

 

Ours is the same.  

 

For the first 5 years of our marriage, DH and I went to church services together maybe twice a year.  He either worked on Sundays or was living/working on our now house far away from where we lived.  So, I treasure those Sunday morning services with just the two of us.  While he was working on the house, and DD was old enough for Sunday school, I was her asst. Sunday school teacher, which meant I was in the room with her 90% of the time, since the other asst. was flaky.   I loved that too.   

 

One idea you could suggest to your church is that all the parents take turns being an assistant in their kid's Sunday School room.  That way they could see what was being done and maybe understand what was being sent home.  

 

Even though DD is getting bible lessons at home, my religious education was entirely from Sunday school.  I think it was still a good one.  I don't remember any fancy curriculum like we used when I was DD's Sunday school teacher.  

 

While we are on the topic, if anyone teaches a small kids class, "Duck - Duck - Jesus loves you" is incredibly cute.   Like duck-duck-goose, only "Jesus loves you" is said instead of Goose.  It is so heart-warming to see one small child carefully tell another small child, "Jesus loves you".  

[luuknam]

And the number of drive-by Sunday Schoolings, as I like to call them (people who simply drop off their kids at the door, leave, and pick them up when it is done without ever setting foot in the church) is, frankly, ridiculous and frightening.

 

When I was a kid, the kids did Sunday School during the sermon (which lasted 1-1.5 hours - not adult bible study, just a sermon). So, whole family shows up to church, sings psalms etc, kids go to bible study while parents and other adults listen to sermon, kids go back, everybody sings more psalms etc, the end. If you weren't in church listening to the sermon, you did not get to drop your kids off, afaik. You don't have to require parents to be in Sunday School with the kids - you just have to say they can't leave the premises (like the YMCA does with childwatch - free daycare, while you exercise... but you can't leave the Y).

[vonfirmath]

 

While we are on the topic, if anyone teaches a small kids class, "Duck - Duck - Jesus loves you" is incredibly cute.   Like duck-duck-goose, only "Jesus loves you" is said instead of Goose.  It is so heart-warming to see one small child carefully tell another small child, "Jesus loves you".  

 

I will put this in my hat. I teach 4 and 5 year olds and need tricks to pull out on occasion!

 

Oh and I wonder what kind of writing they were expecting out of your 5 year old? Some of my kids can write their names. Others prefer that I do. (Some I prefer to do it so I can read what is written). But we do not expect any writing out of them beyond their name (which, as stated, I can do). Maybe a few letters here and there. (J for Jesus or N for Noah. etc.)

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by vonfirmath

[HS Mom in NC]

Ha ha ha.  This is an example of what I call "Preacher Beat Magazine" mentality.  We had a pastor like this.  He was always pushing the newest thing.  And the latest newest thing. Then the new latest thing. I started developing a theory that there was some sort of trendy publication marketed to pastors that contained the latest fads in church ministry called Preacher Beat Magazine and he was a big fan.

 

I'm the kind of church member who pushes back on such nonsense. I would schedule a meeting with whoever is in charge. My husband doesn't attend church and all my relatives attend other churches. I need to be spiritually fed by another adult teacher more than my kids since I'm a believer and my kids aren't. As a homeschooler who does Bible at home with my kids, I don't need to be more involved. I'm not dropping the ball on that.  This is clearly geared to parents who have an institutional mindset where they expect the church to provide all the spiritual training for the kids.  That's the root of the problem and if the pastor wants to solve the problem, he'll have to address that and it probably offend some parents by telling them they should be doing it at home on a regular basis in addition to attending church for corporate worship.

[MistyMountain]

We have parent teachers who are back ground checked and who teach in rotating groups of 2. The other parents can volunteer to help but no parent is expected to be there every week with their kids. Having every kids' parent there would be overkill. Plus the adults should to be able to listen to talks that are not meant for kids.

[shawthorne44]

I will put this in my hat. I teach 4 and 5 year olds and need tricks to pull out on occasion!

 

Oh and I wonder what kind of writing they were expecting out of your 5 year old? Some of my kids can write their names. Others prefer that I do. (Some I prefer to do it so I can read what is written). But we do not expect any writing out of them beyond their name (which, as stated, I can do). Maybe a few letters here and there. (J for Jesus or N for Noah. etc.)

 

The kids didn't do any writing in Sunday School when I was there.   I didn't mean to say that they did.  They didn't even write their own names on their stuff unless they wanted to.    But, the MegaChurch did use fancy purchased curriculum in Sunday Schools.   There would be a bible reading,and each kid would get a little pamphlet of the entire story with lots of pretty pictures on it.   There would be a related craft, and related scripted activity.   We always had enough leftover materials from the purchased curriculum that it was gathered up and passed down to churches with less money.    It also changed every year.   So, the 5-year olds were learning about the same story as the 10-year olds, but on a different level.  Then next year, all the kids would have different stories/lessons.  

 

There does seem to be a magic number of kids, which is 6-10, in Duck-Duck-Jesus Loves you.   More than 10 and they get bored while waiting.  5 and below is too few to make a good circle.  

[SKL]

As for how terrible it is to drop kids off at Sunday School - that used to be what SS was.  There was no grown-up Sunday School.  The kids walked to SS and then met up with the parents at church after SS was over.

 

The purpose of Sunday School for kids is to expose kids to religion in age-appropriate ways.  It is also to use kids of non-churchgoers to "spread the word" and get their parents to try church.  Or to increase the future church membership.

 

So here's a question - is this new church policy going to exclude kids whose parents don't accompany them?  Because I think that is foolish on many levels.  I think many people will quit just over the arbitrariness of the rule.  I would.

[3 ladybugs]

The pastor of this church has been there since the early 90's. He isn't new. I am unsure what brought this on. Things were working and we are one of the few churches that is actually growing. So I don't know what to think. Oh wait! There is another church that is actually closer to us then this church but I didn't want to go there because I need a more traditional experience. They are very modern. I wonder if they do this.... Nope I just looked. They do a "children's service" and have the children go out of the sanitary about 30 minutes into it. So it isn't them. 

[RootAnn]

.. but they say that even confirmation and high school students should have an adult with them. This is for preschool through high school. 

 

I wanted to stay for my kid's confirmation classes, but was told I couldn't.  :glare:

 

I'd call the pastor with your concerns, saying that you and DH had prayed about it (cuz you have, right?) and .... And tell him your thoughts.

[kirstenhill]

They will have 3 classes they say. Preschool, K-Elementary, and Jr and Sr. high. I live in NJ you would think they would realize that this state is very transient and many people don't have family near by. Yes some do, but a good portion, don't. They say they talked to parents about this but we were never talked to. We have had our older son in Sunday school every week. Seriously I bet he could have got a perfect attendance a couple of years in a row, if they handed those out. There have been days where he is there and no one else.

 

I think I will give it a try on Sunday, and if we don't like it then we can continue the religious education at home. I am thinking of ordering the bible study from Classical Academic Press. My younger son gets bible study as part of his curriculum. It is an add on but I have been happy with it... hence me not worried about him not attending Sunday school. Oh and we are going to church this week, but the following week we have our 1 and only camping trip this year. Dh had surgery this year and it killed our summer fun. :( However this means we have 2 weeks to mull over what we saw and learned.

We do Sunday school for kids during the service, so typically only teachers are in the room. What your church is doing just doesn't seem very well thought out. Even for two parent families, it seems like it shouldn't be that uncommon to have kids in multiple age groups. I just did a quick calculation and figured out that we will have seven years of our child rearing where we would have kids in three different age groups by your breakdown above...and we only have only have 4 kids! I hope those who can't manage this logistically for whatever reason in your church speak up and don't just leave over it.