If you are morally against HP then how do you feel about Dr. Who?

[athomeontheprairie]

I'm trying to understand a friend. Help me out. Please explain your vote.

Edited May 28, 2016 by athomeontheprairie

[Ann.without.an.e]

Why would anyone be morally against HP? 

Is it the witches and wizards?  Are those in Dr. Who too? 

[Lucy the Valiant]

(Haha, I thought this was Hewlitt Packard - I was like, wow, it's more complex than PC vs. Mac?)

[Guest]

(Haha, I thought this was Hewlitt Packard - I was like, wow, it's more complex than PC vs. Mac?)

That was the first thing that popped into my head as well :rofl:

[bolt.]

I'm in love with both, but I imagine that the problems could be...

 

A. Open "witchcraft" with faux-occult narratives v. Pseudo-science with time-and-space narratives

 

Or

 

B. Children characters with unusual autonomy v. Adult characters with normal free choices

 

(Or both)

[AmandaVT]

Love both and just wanted to vote :-)

[gingersmom]

I'm morally against people who have too much time on their hands to be morally against a book and tv show.

[Katy]

I have Southern Baptist relatives who hate anything related to witchcraft (HP), but LOVE Dr Who.

 

It's solely because witchcraft is forbidden in the Bible, and they think HP glamorizes it.

[FriedClams]

I LOVE HP. I'm a conservative Christian. Personally, I don't see any difference between Tolkien's and Rowling's magic - it's a means to bring about a story. We did wait until my kids were more spiritually make to read them, and we discuss any spiritual elements and why magic as a literary device can be an issue for some believers.

 

I can't stand Dr. Who. Nothing spiritual, I just think it's boring and cheesy. I generally hate scifi.

 

Personal preference.

Edited May 28, 2016 by FriedClams

[Seasider]

I am opposed to both of them at too early of an age. I think it takes some maturity to fully appreciate the latter HP books, yet once one begins reading, trying to stop halfway through the series is like trying to stop a freight train. So, we wait to start.

 

I can't imagine taking a moral high ground on HP and then green lighting Dr Who. It is ripe with sexual innuendo of all varieties, as well as theology-challenging dialogue and story lines

 

IME waiting until my kids are old enough for quality followup discussions has worked well. We enjoy both.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Seasider

[Entropymama]

I love both, but I've allowed my older kids to read and watch all the HPs and have steered them away from Dr. Who so far. As Seasider mentioned, there are all kinds of issues with Dr. Who that challenge our theology. Lots of comments by the good Dr. on the idea that in the future, enlightened beings will realize there is no God, plenty of sexual remarks, etc., etc. Some gory violence sprinkled in there, too. 

 

To not like HP and embrace Dr. Who seems very strange. 

[Mergath]

My mom is religious and very anti-witchcraft (yes, having a Buddhist-Pagan daughter practically sends her into fits of apoplexy) and thinks Doctor Who is "a satanic show," to use her phrasing.

 

Of course, it doesn't help that the first episode she ever saw was The Satan Pit. 

[Guest]

I am a fanatical HP fan. My ringtone is Hedwigs' Theme.

 

I'm not sure why someone would be anti-Harry and pro-Dr. who, except that they are easily swayed by propoganda.

 

The one I could never understand was anti-Harry, pro-Narnia. Seriously, those narratives have a lot in common.

[Ellie]

The wizarding world of Harry Potter is nothing like the world of Dr. Who. I suppose someone who opposed HP might also be opposed to science fiction, but I wouldn't expect it.

[Garga]

Doctor Who has enough stuff in there that people who don't like Harry Potter ought to find issue with it:

 

There are a number of gay characters. Usuallly if you don't like HP for spiritual reasons, then you believe acting on your gay feelings is a sin.

 

There are a number of episodes that deal with what happens after death, and it's nothing to do with God. Especially if you watch the spinoff, Torchwood. After death there is only consiousness within emptiness. It's an utter horror.

 

The Satan Pit episode.

 

 

There are probably more issues, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

 

I personally love them both. But I also belong to a conservative church and I know that there are a lot of people at my church who absolutely do NOT like HP and wouldn't like Dr Who for the reasons I listed above, if they were the kind to watch it. (In this area, there are very few sci-fi fans at all. I mean, Star Wars ep 7 was NOT sold out on the Thursday opening night until 10 minutes before the show. Around here, it was hard for them to drum up one theater full of people for the biggest sci-fi event of the year. We sci-fi fans are few and far between in the cornfields of Pennsylvania. There were empty seats on the opening Sat/Sun for Ep 7. But I digress.)

 

 

 

Harry Potter is not like Narnia at all. Again, I love them both, but they're not the same. In Narnia, the only actual magic that is performed is by the White Witch. And she is clearly supposed to be Satan. The only person wielding the magic is overwhelmingly evil, therefore we can know that magic is evil. Oh, there was the Magician (from the Magician's Nephew) who did some "magic" when he found the substance that made the magic rings. But it was also unmistakably clear that he was evil for fiddling with it.

 

In HP, magic is not good or bad. It's ok to use magic. For some Christian groups, that is not acceptable.

 

I'm not sure about LOTRs, but I think in my church growing up, it would not have been looked upon favorably.

 

 

 

There seems to be a mixture. A certain type of conservative Christian would not like HP, LOTR, or Dr. Who. They would like Narnia because it's very, very clear that magic and witchcraft are completely evil, so it supports their beliefs that God would want us to have nothing to do with it.

 

A middle-ground Christian might be ok with Dr. Who because the theolgical issues are easy enough to talk through and say, "Well, that's obviously just what some people believe, but not truth to us," because 90% of the show is regular old sci-fi stuff. They would not be ok with HP because HP isn't about sci-fi and things that *could* happen with enough technology and a universe stuffed full of aliens. HP is about wielding magic. As is LOTR.

 

And other Christians are fine with it all.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Garga

[Garga]

I have a Christian friend who doesn't read HP. I asked her why, expecting that she'd give me some tripe about reading articles about it, without having read it for herself.

 

Her answer surprised me. She said that her brother read HP and decided that he could do magic and believed he could transfigure himself into an animal. I said, "Surely, he's teasing you." But he wasn't. It really scared her. I think her brother is a nut and 99.9% of people are not thinking they can perform magic because of HP, but at least I can understand her wariness: She actually has a member of her immediate family who has read HP and decided to try "magic." Which is what a number of Christians warn about--that someone will read it and become enamored of magic and end up involved in Satan worship inadvertently.

 

Just throwing that out there. For my friend, HP is a very real problem for her a Christian, since she believes her brother is now dabbling in things that are spiritually dangerous.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Garga

[Guest]

I just had to add here that the Weeping Angels are easily the creepiest thing I've ever seen. Makes Freddie look warm and fuzzy.

[J-rap]

I enjoy Harry Potter and I've never watched Dr. Who!   (not for any reason in particular)   I know that doesn't answer anything at all.  But, I used to have similar questions about several families I knew who were fervently opposed to HP but absolutely loved Lord of the Rings, Bewitched, and The Wizard of Oz.  Now that made no sense to me at all.

[gardenmom5]

I have Southern Baptist relatives who hate anything related to witchcraft (HP), but LOVE Dr Who.

 

It's solely because witchcraft is forbidden in the Bible, and they think HP glamorizes it.

 

how do they feel about Narnia or lotr?

 

I LOVE HP. I'm a conservative Christian. Personally, I don't see any difference between Tolkien's and Rowling's magic - it's a means to bring about a story. We did wait until my kids were more spiritually make to read them, and we discuss any spiritual elements and why magic as a literary device can be an issue for some believers.

 

I can't stand Dr. Who. Nothing spiritual, I just think it's boring and cheesy. I generally hate scifi.

 

Personal preference.

 

I'm also a Christian who is conservative - dont' see the  difference.  lotr bored me to tears - I only watched the movies to make them quiet.  (my kids consider that heresy), but I loved bewitched and I dream of Jeanie growing up.  Love HP - and also made dudeling wait for the later books until I felt he was ready - had nothing to do with magic, but the dark themes.

 

The wizarding world of Harry Potter is nothing like the world of Dr. Who. I suppose someone who opposed HP might also be opposed to science fiction, but I wouldn't expect it.

 

my grandmother hated sci-fi.   she hated many things.   I was reading a sci-fi novel at her house - the only books that were acceptable to her, were the bible and personal stories being sold by televangelists.    I tended to annoy her.

[Xahm]

Harry Potter is not like Narnia at all. Again, I love them both, but they're not the same. In Narnia, the only actual magic that is performed is by the White Witch. And she is clearly supposed to be Satan. The only person wielding the magic is overwhelmingly evil, therefore we can know that magic is evil. Oh, there was the Magician (from the Magician's Nephew) who did some "magic" when he found the substance that made the magic rings. But it was also unmistakably clear that he was evil for fiddling with it.

 

In HP, magic is not good or bad. It's ok to use magic. For some Christian groups, that is not acceptable.

 

I'm not sure about LOTRs, but I think in my church growing up, it would not have been looked upon favorably.

 

 

 

There seems to be a mixture. A certain type of conservative Christian would not like HP, LOTR, or Dr. Who. They would like Narnia because it's very, very clear that magic and witchcraft are completely evil, so it supports their beliefs that God would want us to have nothing to do with it.

 

 

Magic is used by other characters in Narnia, though. It's usually negative or they are uneasy about it, but not always. In Dawn Treader Lucy uses a magic book to cast spells and is only rebuked for casting ones she should have known were wrong (letting her eavesdrop and making herself more beautiful than any other). Dr Cornelius uses magic in Prince Caspian to find things. I've known one family that banned the whole series for this reason. Yet they allowed Star Wars! I like them all, but the Force seems more like the kind of thing they ought to be worried about.

[Garga]

Magic is used by other characters in Narnia, though. It's usually negative or they are uneasy about it, but not always. In Dawn Treader Lucy uses a magic book to cast spells and is only rebuked for casting ones she should have known were wrong (letting her eavesdrop and making herself more beautiful than any other). Dr Cornelius uses magic in Prince Caspian to find things. I've known one family that banned the whole series for this reason. Yet they allowed Star Wars! I like them all, but the Force seems more like the kind of thing they ought to be worried about.

 

You are so right! I'd forgotten all about tha book and Dr. Cornelius. Hmmm.

 

When I was growing up, the church I went to was against Star Wars because of the force. In the original SW movie, the force is even referred to a as religion. The Wizard of Oz was also frowned upon. I don't know what they thoought about Narnia. I know the pastor's wife wouldn't let her kids watch Speed Racer because the theme song said, "He's a demon on wheels."

 

I don't know why some people pick and choose. Some absolutely will reject any and all references to magic or witchcraft. Some will do so based on how the magic is used--what message does it send? That magic is good? Or that it's evil?

 

Even though I was raised in that church, my family quietly made our own decisions and were fine with pretty much everything.

 

 

If it were me, OP, I'd ask the person in your life directly . The way I asked my friend why she doesn't read HP and found out about her brother. Just ask. Not in a combative way, but in a curious way, and see what they say. (And then tell us! I always love ot hear why people seem to have contradictions.)

[bolt.]

There's lots, LOTS more 'doing of magic' by good characters, for good, in Narnia.

 

Just is LWW, chronologically, there's the magic wardrobe, the 'magic' that scared them into it, Father Christmas' magic abilities and gifts, the magic of Aslan's presence that melts the snow and ends the winter, the magic cordial that heals wounds and illness, the magic stag that grants wishes, and the magic that returns them home -- and that's ignoring the overall magic of talking beasts and mythical creatures in general.

 

Even Aslan's ressurection is attributed to 'deeper magic from before the dawn of time'.

[chocolatechip]

There's lots, LOTS more 'doing of magic' by good characters, for good, in Narnia.

 

Just is LWW, chronologically, there's the magic wardrobe, the 'magic' that scared them into it, Father Christmas' magic abilities and gifts, the magic of Aslan's presence that melts the snow and ends the winter, the magic cordial that heals wounds and illness, the magic stag that grants wishes, and the magic that returns them home -- and that's ignoring the overall magic of talking beasts and mythical creatures in general.

 

Even Aslan's ressurection is attributed to 'deeper magic from before the dawn of time'.

This exactly ^

[lmrich]

Off topic.  Sorry....

I do not get the people who are scared of Harry Potter but embrace Star Wars. In lots of ways, it is the same story. I do not watch Dr. Who - just never got around to it. 

 

Good question.

[Butter]

I don't think Harry Potter and Doctor Who are on the same list of reasons to hate things for people who are morally against HP.  I wouldn't expect someone who was against HP to be against DW, but then I don't expect people to be against either of them (and do indeed think it is odd).  HP has magic and people performing magic.  DW doesn't so if it's just the magic/witchcraft thing, then I could see how one who is against HP could love DW.  As has been pointed out there are more "adult" themes in some DW episodes so I can see being against it for that reason and often those morally against reading HP because of the witchcraft would also be against watching those adult themes on DW.

 

I will never understand people who wholeheartedly accept Narnia and LOTR, but reject HP for moral reasons.  The answer given (I've asked two or three people) is usually it's because CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien were Christians so that makes their use of magic okay.  Once when I pointed out JK Rowling is also a Christian, I was told that she was not because of a certain news article where she was interviewed and said her goal was to make kids turn to witchcraft.  She shared the article with me.  From The Onion.  I couldn't convince her it was satire and totally not true.  It was a truly amazing experience.

 

And, just saying, The Magic Tree House is totally Doctor Who.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Butter

[OneStepAtATime]

 

 

And, just saying, The Magic Tree House is totally Doctor Who.

:hurray:  :lol:

[OneStepAtATime]

I love both.  There are themes in DW that are more adult than HP.  There are episodes of DW that we waited to show the kids because of more adult themes or they were too scary.  But we all love DW.  We also love HP.  We have had some amazing discussions stemming off of HP regarding standing up for what you know to be right even when others tell you that you are wrong, or that you know your peers will not understand, etc.  We have had some great discussions about making choices that can be really hard to make but you have to decide what is best.  We have talked about sharing the burden with friends/family when the going gets tough.  We have talked about what constitutes family, and how family should treat each other.  Lots of great discussions.  Witchcraft wasn't on the radar.

 

I do have friends that have never read HP or watched the movies for religious reasons.  They feel VERY strongly that HP is a terrible set of books and promotes witchcraft and evil.  I disagree completely but I respect their wishes and when their kids have come over HP was a topic we did not bring up.  However, I DID discuss in private HP with the mom because I wanted to get it out in the open instead of her saying something negative in front of my kids or being fearful of her own children coming over.  The conversation went well, but she did have serious concerns.  Eventually there were issues between our sons, too, because the other boy saw our movies and books and lectured DS about the evils of HP.  We are still friends but our children do not go to each other's homes anymore.

[Guest]

I don't think Harry Potter and Doctor Who are on the same list of reasons to hate things for people who are morally against HP. I wouldn't expect someone who was against HP to be against DW, but then I don't expect people to be against either of them (and do indeed think it is odd). HP has magic and people performing magic. DW doesn't so if it's just the magic/witchcraft thing, then I could see how one who is against HP could love DW. As has been pointed out there are more "adult" themes in some DW episodes so I can see being against it for that reason and often those morally against reading HP because of the witchcraft would also be against watching those adult themes on DW.

 

I will never understand people who wholeheartedly accept Narnia and LOTR, but reject HP for moral reasons. The answer given (I've asked two or three people) is usually it's because CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien were Christians so that makes their use of magic okay. Once when I pointed out JK Rowling is also a Christian, I was told that she was not because of a certain news article where she was interviewed and said her goal was to make kids turn to witchcraft. She shared the article with me. From The Onion. I couldn't convince her it was satire and totally not true. It was a truly amazing experience.

 

And, just saying, The Magic Tree House is totally Doctor Who.

Yes, and the series, especially taken on the whole, follows a clearly Chrisitan narrative. Harry walking into the Forbidden Forest to sacrifice himself, knowing that this was always the plan and was the only way to defeat Voldemort is so obviously analogous to Christ's sacrificial death.

 

But, yes...you are seeing The Backfire Effect in action.

[lllll]

I loved HP, but found Doctor Who boring.  I used to watch Doctor Who when it was on TV back in the 80's and loved it.  But I tried the current ones and didn't like them.  I also found Chronicles of Narnia boring.  But my girls liked them.  And all of us loved LOTR and The Hobbit, too.  We're Christian, fairly conservative.

 

No idea why someone would choose one over the other.  I suppose there's some kind of reasoning behind it that makes sense to them, personally.

 

If this is in terms of small children reading, I probably would wait on the HP just because there's SO much classical children's literature I'd rather they were reading when they were younger.   

Edited May 28, 2016 by _ ?^..

[athomeontheprairie]

Usually I find polls on here to sway I've way or another. I'm trying surprised the average has (About) half you of for Dr. Who and half of you assuming they'd be against it.

 

If it comes up again i conversation, I'll ask (And report my findings here!). And with the nearing release of hp8-and plans to drive to a city for a midnight release, it might.

[Seasider]

"nearing release of hp-8"....what do you mean?

[athomeontheprairie]

"nearing release of hp-8"....what do you mean?

The release of the cursed child in July.

[Shellydon]

I am not a fan of HP-- I don't like books where adults/parents are portrayed as dumb or are treated with disrespect.  I also don't like opening to door to witchcraft.  If my kids would like to read the books after age 13/14, then that if fine.  Dr. Who is not something I enjoy at all.  I don't find it the least bit interesting not to mention the silly plots and poor acting.  If I am going to sink time into TV, it is going to be really good shows with amazing acting.  So, we don't do either here, but for different reasons.

[AnthemLights]

It seems like I am the only one (so far) who has voted that is against both.   :sad:

 

But like someone upthread said, for different reasons.

 

I would not like HP because of the wizardry and also because Rowlings seems to believe in a sort of ends-justify-the-means moral relativity.  I think my casual reading should reflect my own biblical world view.  I don't think that HP does.

 

I don't like Dr Who because of a whole host of other reasons.  Nothing against science fiction whatsoever.  

 

:leaving:  Leaving now before you all throw rotten tomatoes at me.  

[gardenmom5]

 

 

I will never understand people who wholeheartedly accept Narnia and LOTR, but reject HP for moral reasons.  The answer given (I've asked two or three people) is usually it's because CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien were Christians so that makes their use of magic okay.  Once when I pointed out JK Rowling is also a Christian, I was told that she was not because of a certain news article where she was interviewed and said her goal was to make kids turn to witchcraft.  She shared the article with me.  From The Onion.  I couldn't convince her it was satire and totally not true.  It was a truly amazing experience.

 

And, just saying, The Magic Tree House is totally Doctor Who.

 

she must love MIB, and getting their news from the national enquirer.. . .smh.

 

I loved HP, but found Doctor Who boring.  I used to watch Doctor Who when it was on TV back in the 80's and loved it.  But I tried the current ones and didn't like them.  I also found Chronicles of Narnia boring.  But my girls liked them.  And all of us loved LOTR and The Hobbit, too.  We're Christian, fairly conservative.

 

No idea why someone would choose one over the other.  I suppose there's some kind of reasoning behind it that makes sense to them, personally.

 

If this is in terms of small children reading, I probably would wait on the HP just because there's SO much classical children's literature I'd rather they were reading when they were younger.   

This - only I was watching dr. who in the 70s with tom baker and his scarf. never knew exactly when it was going to show up on tv. have had no interest in any of the latest incarnations - though I wouldn't mind a sonic screwdriver. . .

I found lotr  boring - my kids consider me a heretic, and 1dd attributes tolkein for her majoring in classics.  we haven't introduced dueling yet as we've considered him too young - but several of the kids did read it when they were 10, so he's probably old enough for the books.  we read HP together last year??.  (and watched the movies after each book.)   HP is basically a good vs evil story, with good triumphing after much tribulation.  pretty common theme in books, magic is just a plot device.

we're also Christians of  a fairly conservative sort.

 

 

I am not a fan of HP-- I don't like books where adults/parents are portrayed as dumb or are treated with disrespect.  I also don't like opening to door to witchcraft.  If my kids would like to read the books after age 13/14, then that if fine.  Dr. Who is not something I enjoy at all.  I don't find it the least bit interesting not to mention the silly plots and poor acting.  If I am going to sink time into TV, it is going to be really good shows with amazing acting.  So, we don't do either here, but for different reasons.

 

some adults are jerks (or worse) - and it's good for kids to know that, and that there are adults that will do things that will harm children.  I was raised to always defer to my grandmother, because that's what children are supposed to do to show respect for adults . . .that's grooming. she was psychologically abusive and did NOT deserve respect.

HP also shows GOOD adult relationships, and healthy adult - child relationships.

[PrairieSong]

Yes, and the series, especially taken on the whole, follows a clearly Chrisitan narrative. Harry walking into the Forbidden Forest to sacrifice himself, knowing that this was always the plan and was the only way to defeat Voldemort is so obviously analogous to Christ's sacrificial death.

Exactly. That parallel was so clear. How could anyone miss it? But I think most people who are anti-HP either didn't read any of the books, or stopped long before Deathly Hallows.

[Guest]

It seems like I am the only one (so far) who has voted that is against both. :sad:

 

But like someone upthread said, for different reasons.

 

I would not like HP because of the wizardry and also because Rowlings seems to believe in a sort of ends-justify-the-means moral relativity. I think my casual reading should reflect my own biblical world view. I don't think that HP does.

 

I don't like Dr Who because of a whole host of other reasons. Nothing against science fiction whatsoever.

 

:leaving: Leaving now before you all throw rotten tomatoes at me.

I promise not to throw rotten tomatoes, but did you read any of the HP books? (Presumably not.) In fact, the question of ends-justify-means is a theme that is wrestled with in the upper books. But, more importantly, do you hold to that for all the media you consume? I would not want to be so limited in my media selection that I could only read/watch stories that reflect my worldview. (I'm not sure how I could even know that in advance.)

 

Of course, it is none of my concern whether you read J K Rowling's books or not; there are 300 million other people who do. It just bugs me when people won't read it because they have "heard" this or that. The HP stories are packed with Christian symbolism and the story continually wrestles with good vs. evil, important themes of what different beings "deserve" (i.e., some magical creatures are slaves with no personal freedom, some creatures suffer prejudiced attitudes, "Might Makes Right"), resurrection is a theme, sacrifice is a theme, parental love is, love as the great overcomer is, defeating death is a theme. See any books written by John Granger on HP analysis.

 

Or don't. ;) Certainly that is your prerogative.

[ktgrok]

I just had to add here that the Weeping Angels are easily the creepiest thing I've ever seen. Makes Freddie look warm and fuzzy.

 

Agreed. It was like one of my nightmares came true in that episode. 

 

Also, regarding Dr. who, I am now wondering how fundamentalists view the idea of aliens. Is that an okay thing to think are real?

[TranquilMind]

Who would be morally against a book?

 

I don't like and won't read witchcraft, spell-casting stuff though, so it isn't something we chose to read.     I don't object to books but I do object to witchcraft, even dressed up in fun ways. 

 

Dr. Who is just semi-scientific stuff.  And those crazy scary angels that keep getting closer. ;)  It doesn't really hold my interest but I have seen an episode here and there. 

Edited May 30, 2016 by TranquilMind

[TranquilMind]

Of course, it is none of my concern whether you read J K Rowling's books or not; there are 300 million other people who do. It just bugs me when people won't read it because they have "heard" this or that. .

Seriously?   So you will consume anything just because you think you could not know you would object unless you read or watch it yourself? 

 

Reviews don't ever urge you away from or toward something?   What about pornography?  Extreme violence?  Horror?  Torture?  Graphic rape?  Yeah, no thanks.  Even when forced to read something that contained and element like that in college, I'd skip that section and sort of skim it so I had an idea of what happened and went on.  I just will not put some things in my head or spirit. 

 

I learned that early, after a stupid choice to see a horror movie that I still remember in detail today 40 years later.  

 

It didn't take more than a preview of an upcoming HP while changing channels for me to know this wouldn't be something for my family.   I don't need to see it or read the books any more than I need to see pornography, horror, or torture. 

 

 

[AmazingGrace]

Quill, that was a gracious response and maybe I should have explained myself I bit more.  I am new to the board, so I didn't feel like overwhelming you all with a sermon right off.   :001_smile:  Additionally, words are not my strong point so I have a hard time getting my thoughts on paper.  But here goes....

 

I promise not to throw rotten tomatoes, but did you read any of the HP books? (Presumably not.)  

No, I didn't.  I didn't feel like it would be worth my time, since I wasn't comfortable with the amount of sorcery/witchcraft/magic to begin with.  As a child I read a lot.  At least a book a day.  My parents never monitored what I read.  To busy to keep up with me.  I got into a lot of things I shouldn't have read that still cause me to struggle even as an adult.  I have a daughter who takes after me.  She would spend her entire life reading if I would let her.  So, yes, I depend a lot on other moms, forums, review sites, to help me make wise choices without me having to read every book out there. If I feel like there as a question or gray area, then I would take the time to read the book myself.  I didn't think that HP was gray at all.   :001_smile: 

 

In fact, the question of ends-justify-means is a theme that is wrestled with in the upper books.  But, more importantly, do you hold to that for all the media you consume?

We try.   :001_smile: 

 

I would not want to be so limited in my media selection that I could only read/watch stories that reflect my worldview.

To explain what I meant by that....I want the books that my children read to reinforce what I am teaching them morally and spiritually.  So if I teach them that God hates sorcery and divination, how can I then point them to a book in which the "hero" does those things.  

 

(I'm not sure how I could even know that in advance.)  The beauty of the internet.  And like I said, I preview, read reviews, and depend some on others who I have come to trust.  

 

Of course, it is none of my concern whether you read J K Rowling's books or not; there are 300 million other people who do. It just bugs me when people won't read it because they have "heard" this or that.  

It would be kind of hard to argue that Harry doesn't use spells or incantations.  So if I start with my main premise that I think that is wrong, I don't need to go any further than that.  

 

The HP stories are packed with Christian symbolism and the story continually wrestles with good vs. evil, important themes of what different beings "deserve" (i.e., some magical creatures are slaves with no personal freedom, some creatures suffer prejudiced attitudes, "Might Makes Right"), resurrection is a theme, sacrifice is a theme, parental love is, love as the great overcomer is, defeating death is a theme. See any books written by John Granger on HP analysis.  

I get that.  And obviously Rowlings is a fascinating author or else she wouldn't have the success that she does. But there are plenty of other books out there that emphasize those same themes without stepping over what I think is a very clear Biblical guideline.  

 

Or don't.  ;) Certainly that is your prerogative. 

And that is what I have come down to with my friends and relatives, some of which have no problem with HP.  If they are free in their own hearts to read or listen or watch something, that is between them and God.  I cannot know their hearts.  But then I want the same grace from them.   :001_cool: 

 

Edited to remove some funky formatting.  

 

Edited May 30, 2016 by AmazingGrace22

[AmazingGrace]

Apologies to athomeontheprairie.  I didn't mean to derail your thread.  

[Guest]

Quill, that was a gracious response and maybe I should have explained myself I bit more. I am new to the board, so I didn't feel like overwhelming you all with a sermon right off. :001_smile: Additionally, words are not my strong point so I have a hard time getting my thoughts on paper. But here goes....

I promise not to throw rotten tomatoes, but did you read any of the HP books? (Presumably not.)

No, I didn't. I didn't feel like it would be worth my time, since I wasn't comfortable with the amount of sorcery/witchcraft/magic to begin with. As a child I read a lot. At least a book a day. My parents never monitored what I read. To busy to keep up with me. I got into a lot of things I shouldn't have read that still cause me to struggle even as an adult. I have a daughter who takes after me. She would spend her entire life reading if I would let her. So, yes, I depend a lot on other moms, forums, review sites, to help me make wise choices without me having to read every book out there. If I feel like there as a question or gray area, then I would take the time to read the book myself. I didn't think that HP was gray at all. :001_smile:

In fact, the question of ends-justify-means is a theme that is wrestled with in the upper books. But, more importantly, do you hold to that for all the media you consume?

We try. :001_smile:

I would not want to be so limited in my media selection that I could only read/watch stories that reflect my worldview.

To explain what I meant by that....I want the books that my children read to reinforce what I am teaching them morally and spiritually. So if I teach them that God hates sorcery and divination, how can I then point them to a book in which the "hero" does those things.

(I'm not sure how I could even know that in advance.) The beauty of the internet. And like I said, I preview, read reviews, and depend some on others who I have come to trust.

Of course, it is none of my concern whether you read J K Rowling's books or not; there are 300 million other people who do. It just bugs me when people won't read it because they have "heard" this or that.

It would be kind of hard to argue that Harry doesn't use spells or incantations. So if I start with my main premise that I think that is wrong, I don't need to go any further than that.

The HP stories are packed with Christian symbolism and the story continually wrestles with good vs. evil, important themes of what different beings "deserve" (i.e., some magical creatures are slaves with no personal freedom, some creatures suffer prejudiced attitudes, "Might Makes Right"), resurrection is a theme, sacrifice is a theme, parental love is, love as the great overcomer is, defeating death is a theme. See any books written by John Granger on HP analysis.

I get that. And obviously Rowlings is a fascinating author or else she wouldn't have the success that she does. But there are plenty of other books out there that emphasize those same themes without stepping over what I think is a very clear Biblical guideline.

Or don't. ;) Certainly that is your prerogative.

And that is what I have come down to with my friends and relatives, some of which have no problem with HP. If they are free in their own hearts to read or listen or watch something, that is between them and God. I cannot know their hearts. But then I want the same grace from them. :001_cool:

 

Edited to remove some funky formatting.

Yeah, I understand not being able to keep pace with screening books for your kids; that became a problem for me with my eldest, too. Eventually all my reading time would have been consumed with screening and leaving no time for my own reading selections. But, interestingly, the first time I cracked a Harry Potter book, it was because I wanted to see how I felt about those books before my kids got into them. This was right in the thick of a lot of HP-shunning in Christian circles; I had no idea how I would feel about it before-hand, but I did know that many people had been duped by the satirical article in The Onion. Also, Although I was a much more serious/conservative Christian at the time, I was never against fantastical themes or fictional magic. It doesn't (and never did) bother me that the characters cast spells and make potions. It's not as though these are real spells that a person who believes in real-life dark magic would use.

 

To me, it is no different than any other journey of willing suspension of disbelief a child goes on through literature and movies. Tumbling down a rabbit hole doesn't really take you to Wonderland; hiding in the wardrobe doesn't really take you to Narnia. But - I understand how a person's experiences can make them sensitive to that (or another theme) that may not bother others. When my DD was young, I hated Disney's The Little Mermaid, in part because the young lady makes all the mistakes because she's so "in love," but the men have to come to the rescue to fix it all at the end. :/ So, we all have our "thing." :)

[Guest]

Seriously? So you will consume anything just because you think you could not know you would object unless you read or watch it yourself?

 

Reviews don't ever urge you away from or toward something? What about pornography? Extreme violence? Horror? Torture? Graphic rape? Yeah, no thanks. Even when forced to read something that contained and element like that in college, I'd skip that section and sort of skim it so I had an idea of what happened and went on. I just will not put some things in my head or spirit.

 

I learned that early, after a stupid choice to see a horror movie that I still remember in detail today 40 years later.

 

It didn't take more than a preview of an upcoming HP while changing channels for me to know this wouldn't be something for my family. I don't need to see it or read the books any more than I need to see pornography, horror, or torture.

Honestly, TM, the leaps you make off my posts...I just don't get it.

 

I said,, "...when people won't read IT because of something they have heard..." Many Christians will not read Harry Potter because they believe their friend who heard from a friend whose pastor said that JK Rowling aims to make all children turn to witchcraft; it was in a news article! THIS is what I object to. That means that if I choose not to read/watch something, I am basing it on more than hear-say.

 

There have been many popular books and movies I do not intend to read or watch because I have read multiple, professional summaries of the book/movie and I do know there are one or more things I object to about that story. (Fifty Shades of Grey, for example.)

 

 

ETA: typo

Edited May 30, 2016 by Quill

[TranquilMind]

Honestly, TM, the leaps you make off my posts...I just don't get it.

 

I said,, "...when people won't read IT because of something they have heard..." Many Christians will not read Harry Potter because they believe their friend who heard from a friend whose pastor said that JK Rowling aims to make all children turn to witchcraft; it was in a news article! THIS is what I object to. That means that if I choose not to read/watch something, I am basing it on more than hear-say.

 

There have been many popular books and movies I do not intend to read or watch because I have read multiple, professional summaries of the book/movie and I do know there are one or more things I object to about that story. (Fifty Shades of Grey, for example.)

 

 

ETA: typo

I just don't understand that type of reasoning. 

 

We all discriminate against things that we find not beneficial to us, including you.  But in this instance, you seem be offended if one does so in reference to HP, even though those people may well have read reviews and know that they aren't interested in stories with characters casting spells or demonic imagery. 

 

That was my point and I wondered how far the view extended that one should not discriminate against something because they have been informed of the content.  Now you are ex post facto  limiting it only to HP and also adding hyperbolic statements that no one said (the bolded) to justify your point.   

 

 

 

[Guest]

I just don't understand that type of reasoning.

 

We all discriminate against things that we find not beneficial to us, including you. But in this instance, you seem be offended if one does so in reference to HP, even though those people may well have read reviews and know that they aren't interested in stories with characters casting spells or demonic imagery.

 

That was my point and I wondered how far the view extended that one should not discriminate against something because they have been informed of the content. Now you are ex post facto limiting it only to HP and also adding hyperbolic statements that no one said (the bolded) to justify your point.

Tranquil, there was a satirical JOKE article in The Onion many years ago, which many Chrisitans believed was real. Are you aware of that? This was what I was referring to when I made both my first and second post. I did not change my post after the fact. I was specifically saying it bugs me when people reject Harry Potter because they heard a rumor based on a joke article about JKR being pro-witchcraft.

http://www.theonion.com/article/harry-potter-books-spark-rise-in-satanism-among-ch-2413

 

(CAUTION: do not read the linked article if you are gullible.)

[Excelsior! Academy]

Dh would prefer our dc not to watch Harry Potter.  He has no problem letting our older children watch Dr. Who.  So I guess, we are that family.  

[TranquilMind]

Tranquil, there was a satirical JOKE article in The Onion many years ago, which many Chrisitans believed was real. Are you aware of that? This was what I was referring to when I made both my first and second post. I did not change my post after the fact. I was specifically saying it bugs me when people reject Harry Potter because they heard a rumor based on a joke article about JKR being pro-witchcraft.

http://www.theonion.com/article/harry-potter-books-spark-rise-in-satanism-among-ch-2413

 

(CAUTION: do not read the linked article if you are gullible.)

Not one person here who responded stated their objection is on this basis that you mocked. 

 

Straw man.

[Guest]

Not one person here who responded stated their objection is on this basis that you mocked.

 

Straw man.

Tranquil, I did not say anyone here was doing so. I was saying it bugs me WHEN people do this. A previous poster had mentioned someone IRL who believed that article. It bugs me when that happens. i did not say anyone posting in this thread is doing that.

 

Peace to you, Tranquil. You seem to find offense in my posts pretty often, so this is my last attempt to explain myself in this thread. We seem to miss signals somewhere on a regular basis.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I'm not opposed to HP but know absolutely nothing about Dr. Who.  Except for being able to recognize the Tardis.  That I can do.

 

Is there something objectionable about Dr. Who?

 

My DS used to watch it.  My father watched it years and years ago.  I've just never felt drawn to it.  Almost lost my Geek Club membership over it but was saved by my recent decision to watch all of Star Trek Enterprise.