Vent, but I need help with thinking of compromises. UPDATE post 69

[3 ladybugs]

My in-laws have said that they want to move out here when FIL retires in a "couple of years". They said this last year so I am not sure what that means. They live on the west coast and we live on the east coast. I have lived on my own (except for about 3 months that was divided) for the last 21 years (May 2!) and DH has lived on his own (if you count undergrad when he was near his parents but not living with them) for even longer. We purchased our house about 8 years ago. When we purchased it we purchased it thinking we might have 3 children, but want something small enough that we could retire in if need be. It is about 1100 square feet not including a unfinished basement. DH has a brother who is autistic but high functioning. He currently has a job, drives a car and so on, however he lives with his parents and it is clear he will likely never move out. MANY fights in the family over this with DH just staying out if it because he isn't there.

 

Last night DH was talking to his parents on speaker phone. I was only half listening as the boys needed attention. My ears perked up though when MIL said she found a house that she really liked. She said it was 4 bedroom but 2 of the bedrooms were on the first floor. It had a fully finished basement and a nice modern kitchen with granite countertops. She said the only thing wrong with it was the bathrooms that needed updating. She said it was 2400 square feet (which is odd that they said that as it is illegal in NJ to list the square feet). Then she said so we (me, DH, DS, DS, 4 hermit crabs, 1 small dog) could move into the upstairs, and BIL could move into the basement and we could all live there! She said it was just "perfect". 

 

So she thinks that 5 adults and 2 children could live in a 2400 square foot house BY CHOICE!! 

 

They had been talking about getting a house with a MIL suite or a small apartment for BIL that would be nearby. 

 

I want to continue to encourage that, but at the same time I want to think of why she would like this. We are theorizing they may have been hit harder then we thought by the 2008 crash. If that is case it would explain some things, like they got hostile to DH when he said that one day he expects that my mom would move in with us. I am an only child by my mom. MIL has also told DH for over a decade that she wants BIL to live with us when they are gone. Both DH and I feel that BIL is capable of living on his own if he wasn't helicoptered over by his mother. And DH doesn't want to live with his brother (assuming he had a choice... all of this is assuming we had a choice in the matter). 

 

One option we have thought of is they could move into a house on our street. It is easily 100K less then what they would sell their house for and maybe that would give them enough cushion. They said they own their house outright. 

 

I am trying to think of other options too that could be brought up if need be. DH needs to be in this area because there are a lot of companies that do what he does around here. So nothing where we move far away would work. 

 

I should also mention that we have a semi-rocky relationship with my in-laws. They don't know my husband since he has grown up. He isn't 18 anymore and they have a hard time seeing that. I have also had my run in's with them, but normally I get quite and complain to DH or vent to my family when that happens. I only say something when it is completely insane and hurtful. MIL once said that her dentist has an x-ray machine that doesn't put off any radiation. It is digital. I said Emily (our lost daughter) had digital x-rays and they gave off radiation, and she said that her dentist has this machine (big implication was that she was somehow more special then her 24 week gestation grand daughter). Even then I bit my tongue before I would normally if some stranger implied that. 

 

I know that my in-laws need to move out here. I am fine with that. I just want to make sure we keep our freedom and independence to make the choices we feel is best for our family when that time comes. 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2016 by 3 ladybugs

[heartlikealion]

Is it the size or the idea of everyone living together that is the big no? It sounds like the main no is everyone living together and the side note is the size, so I would focus on the first thing. Just make sure dh knows that you don't want to lead MIL on if she thinks everyone is going to move in together. Or maybe I am not following? I would stop her in her tracks, no more searching for homes to accommodate everyone. If her main reason to move closer is to move in, it's time for a serious discussion.

 

Does BIL want to live on his own? Has anyone ever discussed that with him?

 

Same street lol. I am sorry, but I wouldn't want to even be on the same street. I think living far, far apart and then suddenly on the same street would be too much. Sounds like it would be harder (for me, anyway) to enforce boundaries that way. I'd stay put and urge my dh to email some housing links to accommodate them and BIL.

[almondbutterandjelly]

Yeah, you don't want the same street.  You might could get by with the same neighborhood (if it's a large neighborhood), but you REALLY don't want the same street.

 

And dh needs to quash the idea of you all living with them.  Don't get riled up about it, just say no.  They can't make you.

 

((hugs))

[Bluegoat]

I would nix the house idea in your situation.  I would not have a problem with the same street.  If there was a need to help with things as time goes on, it makes a big difference if you don't need to drive.

[QueenCat]

From your past posts, I know that you do not want to live with your inlaws or bil. So just say "no". It really would be better for your dh to make this explicitly clear sooner rather than later. I get that it is not easy but it really needs to be done. If he doesn't, they won't know and will continue with plans.

[Storygirl]

I think your husband just needs to tell them flat out that although you love them, you won't live with them. He can then offer to help them find a good housing option if they do decide to move.

 

I think the BIL is a problem. I wouldn't leave him on the west coast alone with no family to check in on him. Change can be very difficult for people with autism, so they are going to have to work that out carefully. I would say that BIL either would need to move as well or the in-laws should stay where they are. You might look into the disability services that would be available to BIL in your area if he moved. Could they help him find another job, for example? Asking BIL to give up his job and move is going to be a big issue and may require some family counseling and having things set up for him in his new location as much as possible ahead of time.

 

Your in-laws really should be the ones to figure out what to do with BIL, but you could make some phone calls on your own to figure out who to direct them to. If you will not be taking BIL in to live with you in the future, as difficult as that may be, you need to make sure that the in-laws know this and have time to figure out another plan for him. I would be very direct about this, even if it causes discord in the short term.

 

Sorry, this sounds hard. I do think that having them live down the street or nearby is a much better choice. If they are hoping to live with you so that you will pay the mortgage and some of their expenses, because they are low on funds, they need to be upfront about it. And you need to just be completely clear about what you can and cannot do. I would not talk to them any more about anything to do with your mother moving in with you. Just don't mention that, ever.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Storygirl

[JFSinIL]

My sister lives a mere block from her now widowed MIL. Her hubby was an only child. He spends time everyday running errands for his mom, and she HAS to be included on each and every family vacation (unless my sister puts her foot down, but then her hubby pouts). Yo do NOT want to live in the same house as your in-laws. Nor do you want to live in a house with space for your BIL (someday). I think your in-laws are trying to think ahead and buy something with space for everyone so you HAVE to keep BIL with you when they, the in-laws, pass on. Let them know NOW that that is not happening. They could leave the house they have now to BIL, and arrange a special needs trust and/or caregiver or power of attorney or whatever over him if he is too disabled to handle his own affairs. But it doesn't sound like that is the case.

[SKL]

I agree it sounds like a terrible idea for you all to move into the same house.  I suggest your husband counter with some options in your neighborhood.  :)

[marbel]

From your past posts, I know that you do not want to live with your inlaws or bil. So just say "no". It really would be better for your dh to make this explicitly clear sooner rather than later. I get that it is not easy but it really needs to be done. If he doesn't, they won't know and will continue with plans.

 

Yes, I remember some past posts too.  It was clear you did not want to live with them and that you and your husband did not want care of his brother.  Your husband needs to set proper expectations with his parents.

 

I happened to be looking at house listings in NJ recently (a friend moving there sent me some links to view); square footage was listed for all the houses. 

 

[3 ladybugs]

Dh told me this morning that he would be fine with loosing any inheritiance that he might get to put his foot down about not living with them. He has told his parents last year that he would not move back in with them. However it doesn't seem to be getting through to MIL. 

 

DH is fearful of turning into "Everyone Loves Raymond" if they were to move onto our street but I am still thinking it could be an option. I would just have to change my personality because I grew up in a house where the door was always open. I wouldn't be able to do that with them. 

 

Our neighborhood is about 60 house all the same pretty much. I was thinking they could move into our town initially or maybe even a neighboring town where there is a college that FIL could become an adjunct professor at if he needed something to do (he has his PhD and years of working experience). The cost of living in both places isn't high but the houses are not all modern. 

 

DH and I were playing around a couple of weeks ago and saw a piece of land in West Virginia that was only $30K or something. I told DH this morning we should get it, purchase 2 trailers and put his parents and his brother there and then we could deal with them later. LOL I was joking but it sounded the most appealing rather then trying to stuff them and us in a 2400 sq foot house!

 

ETA BIL would have better services out here then where he is. We don't live too far from Eden (if you know autistic stuff you probably know the name). So he would be well taken care of. The biggest thing would be getting him out here as he does not to fly.

Edited April 11, 2016 by 3 ladybugs

[QueenCat]

 

 

I think the BIL is a problem. I wouldn't leave him on the west coast alone with no family to check in on him. Change can be very difficult for people with autism, so they are going to have to work that out carefully. I would say that BIL either would need to move as well or the in-laws should stay where they are. You might look into the disability services that would be available to BIL in your area if he moved. Could they help him find another job, for example? Asking BIL to give up his job and move is going to be a big issue and may require some family counseling and having things set up for him in his new location as much as possible ahead of time.

 

Your in-laws really should be the ones to figure out what to do with BIL, but you could make some phone calls on your own to figure out who to direct them to. If you will not be taking BIL in to live with you in the future, as difficult as that may be, you need to make sure that the in-laws know this and have time to figure out another plan for him. I would be very direct about this, even if it causes discord in the short term.

 

 

 

BIL should actually have quite a bit of say in all of this. He drives, he works, etc so he is pretty high functioning on the spectrum. Despite popular misconceptions (and I'm not saying you personally have these), people with autism DO have feelings, their own thoughts and desires, etc. As ADULTS, they most certainly do need to be part of the decision making process. It's fine for OP's dh to say he can't live with us but it's not fine for those involved to dictate what he must do. He needs to be presented with options, be allowed to present his own options, etc..............

 

[catz]

I know this has come up a number of times.  It would really be best to lay out some clear boundaries now.  I can't imagine living cross country from someone for many years and then suddenly living on top of each other is going to go over very well.   Truly, you do not have an obligation to have parents move in on you or on top of you.  You still have many, many years of child rearing left.  You are a cancer survivor and also have your own health and well being to consider.

 

Is this the same ILs that said they were going to buy into an assisted living or something?  Honestly, they just sound all over the place.  I would recommend you and DH come up with ONE consistent response to repeat ad nauseum when this comes up.  I would recommend they get their affairs in order for BIL.  If they do decide to move to your area, lay out clear boundaries.  It sounds like they'd have no problem just taking over your life.   I'd steer them toward a house NOT in your neighborhood that would be elder friendly.  A small rambler maybe with all amenities they'd need on a single story. 

 

Remind yourself and your DH daily that YOU DO HAVE A CHOICE. 

 

 

[plansrme]

(assuming he had a choice... all of this is assuming we had a choice in the matter). 

 

 

 

I'm a little baffled by this statement.  "Assuming" we had a choice implies that there is some scenario in which you do not have a choice.  IN WHAT CRAZY UNIVERSE DO YOU NOT HAVE A CHOICE?  You're adults.  Utilize the most important perquisite of adulthood:  the power to do what you want to do.

[Anne in CA]

I don't have any great suggestions, I just wanted to be sympathetic. I've been thinking about starting a thread on the standard of living for retirement as you get older but need your own space. I live where many people wait too long to move closer to good medical care and then have to abandon their homes when they MUST live closer to the doctor because it takes more time to sell a house than you might think. Lots of people where I live buy a house that is full of the possessions of the former owners because by the time people admitted they needed to move they were too fragile to pack.

 

I have had three people tell me about the houses they bought in the last year that they didn't understand literally came with everything. The former owners gave the real estate agent the keys and just walked away. Nuts, I know. I don't want that to happen to me, but I don't want to live in a suburb either...

[bolt.]

They can live anywhere that they want.

 

They have no right to expect you to move!

 

They can propose things, but you don't need to care why they propose them, or how they think it's reasonable. It doesn't matter. Don't do things that you don't want to do. You don't want to live with them, so don't.

 

(If they eventually face life-and-death, housed-or-homeless scenarios, that's different -- you might need to take them in. If it becomes *necessary* at that point you might do things you don't like. But that point is not now. Now: your (both)preferences and your (both) good judgement govern where and how you and DH house your family.)

[JFSinIL]

There might be long wait lists for services from Eden, something else to consider. If BIL has a job and support system (besides his folks) in place where he is, he may not wish to move. If he inherited his folk's house, could he not have a roommate or two move in to share expenses? Could his folks start to make it a CILA group home for when they move out, they could go to assisted living nearby so could still supervise BIL if needed?

Edited April 11, 2016 by JFSinIL

[bettyandbob]

I haven't read. You post set off alarms. Excuse me if this is not relevant.

 

Start researching support for adults with disabilities in your state and in your in-laws state. Include the factor of an adult moving into the state and waiting lists for services like job training, job coaching and job placement and transportation for work. Services that may be needed later as conditions change, perhaps of current emotional stability erodes and persons can't work, what happens then.

 

California ranked pretty high in services last I checked.

 

Some states that rank high put persons who move into the state as adults on waiting lists that make services nonexistent. I've heard that from families whooved an adult child with permanent disabilities to Maryland.

 

I have a child with a life long special needs. He may work, but he will always need something. I am not including his siblings as planning. I hope to have a long-term plan in place and if a sibling wants to step in awesome. But if siblings would just live theirs lives taking extra time and probably some vacation days to visit and make sure their brother is living a a decent life with access to consistent care, work and stimulating activity that would be awesome too.

 

Your family, your DC should not be sacrificed because your in laws are not examining long-term care fully.

[kitten18]

I'm a little baffled by this statement. "Assuming" we had a choice implies that there is some scenario in which you do not have a choice. IN WHAT CRAZY UNIVERSE DO YOU NOT HAVE A CHOICE? You're adults. Utilize the most important perquisite of adulthood: the power to do what you want to do.

Yes, that statement stuck out to me too.

Why would you not have a choice?

[itsheresomewhere]

Call Eden (great organization)  and ask how long the wait is for services for an adult.  I can't remember if it is over 2 years still or longer.  

 

 

[brehon]

I think, OP, you're going to receive the same thoughts and opinions you received previously. You and your dh don't want to live with your in-laws. Period. Space, streets, neighborhood, town...it really doesn't matter.

 

You have choices here. You don't have to entertain living with or near your in-laws, if you don't want to do so. You are adults. You are not obligated to do anything other than make your boundaries crystal clear.

 

I guess I don't understand the angst. You and your dh agree with each other about whether or not your in-laws can live with you. Even if they move into the same neighborhood or town you're STILL NOT obligated to include them in your lives any more than you wish or bring BIL to live with you at a later date.

 

Make your boundaries known and stick to them. The rest is just noise.

[Valley Girl]

If I'm understanding things correctly, both you and your DH do NOT want to live in the same house as your in-laws.

 

You and your DH do NOT want to live with his brother.

 

You already have your own home.

 

There's nothing here that requires a "compromise," so take that pressure off yourself. You do not have to do anything you don't choose to do.

 

Every time MIL brings up the whole one-big-happy-family-living-together scenario, your DH needs to set her straight.

 

Your in-laws are competent and able to make their own decisions, right? If they want to move closer to you (either with or without their other son), that is their choice.

 

If there is something you are willing to do to help them find a suitable place and/or find a situation for your DH's brother, let them know what that is. A good place to start would be finding out what the brother wants for himself.

 

But you do not have to consider a compromise to someone else's unrealistic plans. Good luck.

[Reefgazer]

DH and I have been in the position of being pushed by a family member to buy a house we hadn't planned on buying (yeah, we bought it - long, ugly story), pushed to buying a car BIL wanted us to buy (didn't buy it), and now we're being hassled into getting siding of the color BIL wants said house (after much back and forth with the contractor, he stopped discussing it with BIL).  My one word of advice is to make the decision your and DH deem best for your families, without any other family member input, and stick to it.  Anything else is a recipe for resentment and disaster.  Trust me on that one.  It isn't your job to sacrifice your family's well-bring for their housing crisis.

My in-laws have said that they want to move out here when FIL retires in a "couple of years". They said this last year so I am not sure what that means. They live on the west coast and we live on the east coast. I have lived on my own (except for about 3 months that was divided) for the last 21 years (May 2!) and DH has lived on his own (if you count undergrad when he was near his parents but not living with them) for even longer. We purchased our house about 8 years ago. When we purchased it we purchased it thinking we might have 3 children, but want something small enough that we could retire in if need be. It is about 1100 square feet not including a unfinished basement. DH has a brother who is autistic but high functioning. He currently has a job, drives a car and so on, however he lives with his parents and it is clear he will likely never move out. MANY fights in the family over this with DH just staying out if it because he isn't there.

 

Last night DH was talking to his parents on speaker phone. I was only half listening as the boys needed attention. My ears perked up though when MIL said she found a house that she really liked. She said it was 4 bedroom but 2 of the bedrooms were on the first floor. It had a fully finished basement and a nice modern kitchen with granite countertops. She said the only thing wrong with it was the bathrooms that needed updating. She said it was 2400 square feet (which is odd that they said that as it is illegal in NJ to list the square feet). Then she said so we (me, DH, DS, DS, 4 hermit crabs, 1 small dog) could move into the upstairs, and BIL could move into the basement and we could all live there! She said it was just "perfect". 

 

So she thinks that 5 adults and 2 children could live in a 2400 square foot house BY CHOICE!! 

 

They had been talking about getting a house with a MIL suite or a small apartment for BIL that would be nearby. 

 

I want to continue to encourage that, but at the same time I want to think of why she would like this. We are theorizing they may have been hit harder then we thought by the 2008 crash. If that is case it would explain some things, like they got hostile to DH when he said that one day he expects that my mom would move in with us. I am an only child by my mom. MIL has also told DH for over a decade that she wants BIL to live with us when they are gone. Both DH and I feel that BIL is capable of living on his own if he wasn't helicoptered over by his mother. And DH doesn't want to live with his brother (assuming he had a choice... all of this is assuming we had a choice in the matter). 

 

One option we have thought of is they could move into a house on our street. It is easily 100K less then what they would sell their house for and maybe that would give them enough cushion. They said they own their house outright. 

 

I am trying to think of other options too that could be brought up if need be. DH needs to be in this area because there are a lot of companies that do what he does around here. So nothing where we move far away would work. 

 

I should also mention that we have a semi-rocky relationship with my in-laws. They don't know my husband since he has grown up. He isn't 18 anymore and they have a hard time seeing that. I have also had my run in's with them, but normally I get quite and complain to DH or vent to my family when that happens. I only say something when it is completely insane and hurtful. MIL once said that her dentist has an x-ray machine that doesn't put off any radiation. It is digital. I said Emily (our lost daughter) had digital x-rays and they gave off radiation, and she said that her dentist has this machine (big implication was that she was somehow more special then her 24 week gestation grand daughter). Even then I bit my tongue before I would normally if some stranger implied that. 

 

I know that my in-laws need to move out here. I am fine with that. I just want to make sure we keep our freedom and independence to make the choices we feel is best for our family when that time comes. 

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by reefgazer

[happi duck]

Be clear, very clear. To me, it sounds like your ils are getting anxious about the future and want to feel like everything is worked out.

 

They need to know that living together in any form will not happen so they can plan properly.

 

Again, be very clear.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Don't live with them.  It will be awful.  Also, if you don't even want them moving that close to you just vocalize it now.  DH didn't want his parents to move here and he didn't say anything and he's regretted it ever since. 

[gardenmom5]

Bless her heart. That just doesn't work for you. Time to nip it in the bud. Say 'no' firmly as many times as it takes.

[Reefgazer]

I bet dollars to donuts it "got through" and she just thinks she can bully him into what she wants.  Stand firm, both of you.

Dh told me this morning that he would be fine with loosing any inheritiance that he might get to put his foot down about not living with them. He has told his parents last year that he would not move back in with them. However it doesn't seem to be getting through to MIL. 

 

DH is fearful of turning into "Everyone Loves Raymond" if they were to move onto our street but I am still thinking it could be an option. I would just have to change my personality because I grew up in a house where the door was always open. I wouldn't be able to do that with them. 

 

Our neighborhood is about 60 house all the same pretty much. I was thinking they could move into our town initially or maybe even a neighboring town where there is a college that FIL could become an adjunct professor at if he needed something to do (he has his PhD and years of working experience). The cost of living in both places isn't high but the houses are not all modern. 

 

DH and I were playing around a couple of weeks ago and saw a piece of land in West Virginia that was only $30K or something. I told DH this morning we should get it, purchase 2 trailers and put his parents and his brother there and then we could deal with them later. LOL I was joking but it sounded the most appealing rather then trying to stuff them and us in a 2400 sq foot house!

 

ETA BIL would have better services out here then where he is. We don't live too far from Eden (if you know autistic stuff you probably know the name). So he would be well taken care of. The biggest thing would be getting him out here as he does not to fly.

 

[3 ladybugs]

I'm a little baffled by this statement.  "Assuming" we had a choice implies that there is some scenario in which you do not have a choice.  IN WHAT CRAZY UNIVERSE DO YOU NOT HAVE A CHOICE?  You're adults.  Utilize the most important perquisite of adulthood:  the power to do what you want to do.

 

I said that because what if they don't have ANY retirement and we really have no choice at that point. All of their money is in the house and they have to sell to live. I don't think that is the case, but if it was, we wouldn't have much choice then to move to help them. It would STINK big time but I also wouldn't allow my husband to abandon his parents and brother. 

 

There was a post a few days ago about someone's husband having pancretitis. My MIL had that when DH and I were engaged before we got married. DH didn't find out about it till a couple of days later. His mother could have died and they would have just called to tell him that, not that she was ill. They are somewhat secretive even with family. I think that is why they are all over the place to us. DH and I are EXTREMELY risk adverse. To the point I am sure some laugh at us when we get our flood insurance every year as we are in an area that would have to have a biblical flood to need it. So when they shoot off any crazy idea the first thing I do is try to figure out a way to deal with it, without loosing myself in the process. 

 

BTW I normally do just talk to my mother about these things. I hate having to come to the hive for this but my mother is on a cruise till Thursday so I can't talk to her. I will try to talk to someone else about it once people are awake on the west coast. 

 

Oh and they are in Washington not California for services for BIL. And I agree that he should have a say, but if they treat DH (who is not autistic) like a child, imagine how they treat him!

[QueenCat]

I said that because what if they don't have ANY retirement and we really have no choice at that point. All of their money is in the house and they have to sell to live. I don't think that is the case, but if it was, we wouldn't have much choice then to move to help them. It would STINK big time but I also wouldn't allow my husband to abandon his parents and brother. 

 

 

No one is suggesting you let them become homeless. You could always help with their rent or buy them something small and keep your current place instead of upsizing so they can live with you.

[justasque]

If you will end up taking care of your ILs and your BIL as they age, then it might be worthwhile to put some serious thought into how you can set things up now so that there are appropriate boundaries but also that it's easy to give the care needed.  A house in your neighborhood sounds like a good idea to me.  That way, you will be able to do the small things as they come up, or deal with a crisis situation (like an ER visit or hospital stay), without the difficulty that distance incurs.   And you won't feel obligated to take them in to your home, because they will be close enough that you can care for them under the vast majority of circumstances without having to live with them.  It will also be easier to help them hire others to meet various needs - lawn care or house cleaning and such.  The key to making this work will be setting appropriate boundaries during the good times.  Let them know realistically what they can expect - a dinner together once a month, for example - and what you simply don't have time or interest in doing.  You will need to be able to speak clearly about what you can/will do and can/will not do.  Taking some time to learn communication techniques that can help with this will be a wise investment.

[Storygirl]

If they need money from their house to live on, they could apply for a reverse mortgage. Also, if they get to the point where they have no assets but need medical care, they should qualify for Medicaid. They have options other than having you take care of them. I wouldn't assume anything about their financial matters. I definitely would not tie any of your own household finances to theirs (by owning a home together, for example, or needing rent money from them to cover a mortgage).

 

I think your husband should have an honest conversation with them. He can ask about how they will finance their retirement and if there are some kind of legal arrangements in place for BIL. But he should always be completely clear in every conversation with them that you are not planning to ever live with them. If he allows them to talk about such plans without reminding them that you aren't cooperating, they may take that as a signal that he is getting used to their ideas.

 

ETA: Also, why would you need to move to help them? If they need help in the future, they should move toward you. Your husband evidently needs to stay where he is for his job, and that is important.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Storygirl

[JFSinIL]

I was going to say they could get a reverse mortgage and live off that, too. Great minds think alike.

[Carol in Cal.]

Have they seen a lawyer about the best ways to provide for BIL after they are gone?

Or at least gone over strategies with a social worker? 

Is there an autism association that helps people understand how to structure this, and what services the government will and won't provide, and under what circumstances?

That should be their first step, before they start figuring out where to move.  They might end up being really surprised, maybe even in a good way.

[brehon]

I said that because what if they don't have ANY retirement and we really have no choice at that point. All of their money is in the house and they have to sell to live. I don't think that is the case, but if it was, we wouldn't have much choice then to move to help them. It would STINK big time but I also wouldn't allow my husband to abandon his parents and brother.

<quote snipped by me>

Again, you *do* and *would* have choices. There is a broad middle ground b/w abandonment and they live with you. Your first priority is to your immediate family. And just so we're clear - that means you, your dh, and your kids. Sacrificing your immediate family for a self-assumed responsibility won't help anyone...including your in-laws. That's a great way for anger and resentment to build and tear you apart.

Edited April 11, 2016 by brehon

[Tsuga]

Have not read other posts. My thoughts:

 

BIL

• Your obligations, such as they may be, to parents end at the brother. If he cannot live alone he needs to apply for group living. Sounds like he finds this convenient, so good job for him, but that's not a long-term solution if the parents can't care for him.
• Your BIL can drive. Your brother can drive with him or the parents can drive with him. People drive across the United States and Canada daily. Problem solved.
• He has choices, but he can choose to live near family. I personally wouldn't deny him that. I would help get him set up with services. However that does not mean that you are his full-time carer. If he can work and get medicaid then set him up with those types of things. There are many options for a single man who doesn't need to live in the lap of luxury.

 

MIL / FIL

 

• I do believe we have obligations to our parents provided they were basically decent parents who cared for us. However that does not mean moving in necessarily. At some point, however, it may involve assisted living and I do plan to help my mom with this at least. With my dad I won't pay but I will help him find something.
• My suggestion is to give her an alternative: "This house is too small and we cannot provide the care you would need in the event you couldn't live on your own. We will help you identify a nice community and we will help you work on your finances to make that happen, if you desire, with a financial planner."
• "You won't be left on the street. There are many options. Living in our basement is not one of them."

 

 

"said that because what if they don't have ANY retirement and we really have no choice at that point."

 

Well, forget about an inheritance in that case.

 

I would focus on what you can do:

• Help them make the most of their home sale, even going so far as to help with repairs on vacation (a week of repairs is sooooo much less than letting them live with you).
• Help them manage those funds for their retirement.
• Help them identify a retirement community, if they wish, in the same city. You cannot stop them from living in the same city so making them more comfortable and getting them the best deal is going to be worth it in the long run.

And repeat: "No, we cannot help you out with free housing in our basement. We can help you plan your retirement so that you can be near the grandkids and that's what's really important, right?"

 

I realize that some here would say you have NO obligations to them and they might be right. I don't know the backstory. I'm suggesting what I'd do for my own parents in that situation if they were both my dad. My dad is a total a-hole and totally and completely abandoned us when we were children. He owes my mom hundreds of thousands in child support and he lives off the state (self-caused disability, opium addiction, from using heroin NOT from pain pills even, urgh) and a union pension.  :thumbdown:  But, he's my dad and I will ensure he's not on the street. It sounds like your DH's parents are much less awful than that, though certainly not fun to live with. So, that's my suggestion. Take it or leave it. :)

 

My own mom will live with us in the downstairs apartment if necessary, but then, she helped us buy the house and there's a separate entrance down there. So, it makes sense.

[zoobie]

You do have choices, even if they don't have retirement. They own their home outright, can continue working, and I assume they are eligible for Social Security? They might not have a cushy retirement, but that's not on you to provide. You need to provide for your own family and save for your own retirement! DH needs to sit down with his parents and say NO. WE ARE NOT LIVING WITH YOU AND BIL. Every. Single. Time. it comes up, he needs to say NO, WE ARE NOT LIVING WITH YOU. Letting her continue to call and put forth this fantasy is not helping. She thinks she's going to find the perfect house and y'all will acquiesce to her fantasy arrangement. You do not need to fund their retirement. You do not need to find them a house. Your MIL does not need to find you a house. Both of you are making plans for the other people. You are all fully functioning adults. You guys need to have a conversation about what their plans are so that you can tell them exactly where your boundaries lie.

 

If BIL needs a guardian, DH needs to have a separate conversation as to what will happen when they are beyond covering that role. Is he willing to accept the position, and what part will BIL play/is he able to play in the decision making? The guardianship issues with the BIL would be the only area where I think compromise is necessary because it involves another human being who might not be able to make necessary decisions for himself. 

[3 ladybugs]

What I think is funny about all of this is we went through a Pre-cana before we got married and my in-laws and brother in law were the LEAST of our worries 13 years ago. What has happened since then is they are our BIGGEST worry. I guess marriage prep courses can only go so far. LOL

 

They did hire a lawyer to help them with end of life planning. At one point they thought about staying put but honestly I had issues with that. Namely we live 2500 miles away and that is a HUGE obstacle. I also don't know if we can trust BIL (he is 9 years younger then DH and we barely know him as he doesn't talk on the phone or visit) to make sure they were doing okay in assisted living (if that is what they needed down the road). I am not sure what if any thought is being given to BIL and his long term planning. Hopefully they will say that when they come out. 

 

I believe our basement would be big enough for 1 person, not 2 and definitely not 3. My mother could live down there because I know her expectations. BUT my mother is only 19 years older then me and my grandmother (her mother) is doing GREAT right now. She is almost 90 and aside from her stopping driving recently, she is really doing well. So I am more concerned with my mom in 20 years then before then. 

 

There is a neighborhood that is a bit further away from us but still close that has a catholic church in it (they are catholic) that I think would work for them. We would have a highway between us, but we could walk there (there are sidewalks and such). I think that is where I would like them best. The highway would be a mental barrier to dropping by, but if we wanted a longer walk we could walk there. Not to mention that we live close to mass transit and that neighborhood does too so they could take that to places if they get to a point where they can't drive. 

[plansrme]

I said that because what if they don't have ANY retirement and we really have no choice at that point. All of their money is in the house and they have to sell to live. I don't think that is the case, but if it was, we wouldn't have much choice then to move to help them. It would STINK big time but I also wouldn't allow my husband to abandon his parents and brother. 

 

 

They have a house; they have Social Security; they can keep working.  THEY have choices, as do you.  

[catz]

No one is suggesting you let them become homeless. You could always help with their rent or buy them something small and keep your current place instead of upsizing so they can live with you.

 

:iagree:  Or you can help line them up with services if you are not a position to do that.  I have a friend who had to get his father into a nursing home, had no ability to take him in, and no money. There are plenty of aging parents who have children who can not or will not take them into their home.  An emotionally unhealthy relationship is reason enough not to do that. 

[Guest]

If I'm understanding things correctly, both you and your DH do NOT want to live in the same house as your in-laws.

 

You and your DH do NOT want to live with his brother.

 

You already have your own home.

 

There's nothing here that requires a "compromise," so take that pressure off yourself. You do not have to do anything you don't choose to do.

 

Every time MIL brings up the whole one-big-happy-family-living-together scenario, your DH needs to set her straight.

 

Your in-laws are competent and able to make their own decisions, right? If they want to move closer to you (either with or without their other son), that is their choice.

 

If there is something you are willing to do to help them find a suitable place and/or find a situation for your DH's brother, let them know what that is. A good place to start would be finding out what the brother wants for himself.

 

But you do not have to consider a compromise to someone else's unrealistic plans. Good luck.

Bingo.

[mamiof5]

What a mess. Little pet peeve of mine... NO means NO...as clear as that. I can't stand it when people say NO and others ignore it :(. I'd just clearly say it again...politely, but a very firm "stop looking for a house that fits us all, please get off that boat, it's not going to happen" type of conversation. Good luck!!!

[hornblower]

First off, I agree with others who say you can just say No. 


But I'd like to expand on the thing that's bothering the most about it & would make me most reluctant: 

it's not the square footage. (aside: don't make the square footage the excuse or they'll come up with a bigger house. You'll just need to say NO. Period. Full stop. Sorry. No) 
I have lived with people in smaller places & that wouldn't bug me. 

It's the fact that you don't know their financial situation & they are not very open about it. 

I would not buy a home (or any substantial investment or financial expense) without knowing the other persons' financial circumstances & without a relationship that was open enough to have these discussions frankly. I wouldn't even begin to consider it. 

Co-owning & co-living requires IMO openness & trust & lots of communication about how things are divided, how they work etc.  I feel it requires a relationship that from what you've said, you don't have with your ILs. I think the potential for headaches and grief and misunderstandings is huge.  It could even end up a legal nightmare. 

Don't do this. Live your life. Have them live theirs. IF they come to you and say, 'this is our financial situation, we need help and thought maybe this could work' , then maybe consider it if you want to but also consider what you want with your life & how you want to live it & be ok with saying, sorry, no, that won't work for us/we're making other financial arrangements for the kids/we're saving for ____/we're going on a trip around the world/ we're moving to Peru....  

 

[3 ladybugs]

She sent me the listing! She would NEVER want to live where this house is. The house is listed for about what we paid for our house. I do think that is odd as they would get more then that for their house. A lot more. I am not sure what she sees in the bathrooms that need to be redone. They looked all new to me. Oh and the house says it is a "1 story". I think that means that the second floor is just a WHOLE lot smaller. 

 

I think my father is right. He says she is nuts. Maybe he is right. 

[zoobie]

She sent me the listing! She would NEVER want to live where this house is. The house is listed for about what we paid for our house. I do think that is odd as they would get more then that for their house. A lot more. I am not sure what she sees in the bathrooms that need to be redone. They looked all new to me. Oh and the house says it is a "1 story". I think that means that the second floor is just a WHOLE lot smaller. 

 

I think my father is right. He says she is nuts. Maybe he is right. 

 

If you tell her where she wants to live, and then she hates the house, it will be your fault. Get DH to send her the names of a few realtors so she can find the SINGLE FAMILY home of her dreams. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

You sound like me.  I keep quiet.  I let others mouth off, do their thing, etc and I just keep quiet.  I am a peacemaker.  Trust me, it won't work.  You aren't going to win friends or influence people by being this way - you are just going to make your life so darn complicated. 

DH and I were in a similar situation.  ILs lived on West coast, we live on east coast.  ILs hadn't much experience with my DH as a grown man, he left for the airforce at 18 and hadn't lived at home since.  We, as a married couple, hadn't been around them much.  In the little time we did have with them, there were small issues in the relationship.  They moved to be near us 8 years ago.  It hasn't gone well.  There were all sorts of unspoken expectations and they have used the phrase "but we picked up everything and moved close to you" as a bargaining chip to get their way time and time again.  Long story short...they are bullies.  They live just under an hour from us and we are no longer on speaking terms.  I wish they would have stayed on the west coast.  We might still have a semi-amiable relationship.  All of this to say...they wanted to do the same exact thing, they wanted us to go in together on property and live together - them, DHs brother, and our three kids (at the time).  We considered it.  I am SO thankful we didn't.  Please do not commit to live under the same roof with them when you don't even know what it is like to live on the same coast as them.  Figure out how living closer in proximity works before you make such huge commitments.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Charleigh

[brehon]

She sent me the listing! She would NEVER want to live where this house is. The house is listed for about what we paid for our house. I do think that is odd as they would get more then that for their house. A lot more. I am not sure what she sees in the bathrooms that need to be redone. They looked all new to me. Oh and the house says it is a "1 story". I think that means that the second floor is just a WHOLE lot smaller.

 

I think my father is right. He says she is nuts. Maybe he is right.

Disengage. Truly. There is no good ending to this story if you and your dh don't set and maintain firm boundaries. It doesn't matter what your in-laws do or say. You don't have to play. Your lives will be immeasurably easier if you really hear and heed what everyone is saying.

[Tree Frog]

What I think is funny about all of this is we went through a Pre-cana before we got married and my in-laws and brother in law were the LEAST of our worries 13 years ago. What has happened since then is they are our BIGGEST worry. I guess marriage prep courses can only go so far. LOL

 

They did hire a lawyer to help them with end of life planning. At one point they thought about staying put but honestly I had issues with that. Namely we live 2500 miles away and that is a HUGE obstacle. I also don't know if we can trust BIL (he is 9 years younger then DH and we barely know him as he doesn't talk on the phone or visit) to make sure they were doing okay in assisted living (if that is what they needed down the road). I am not sure what if any thought is being given to BIL and his long term planning. Hopefully they will say that when they come out. 

 

I believe our basement would be big enough for 1 person, not 2 and definitely not 3. My mother could live down there because I know her expectations. BUT my mother is only 19 years older then me and my grandmother (her mother) is doing GREAT right now. She is almost 90 and aside from her stopping driving recently, she is really doing well. So I am more concerned with my mom in 20 years then before then. 

 

There is a neighborhood that is a bit further away from us but still close that has a catholic church in it (they are catholic) that I think would work for them. We would have a highway between us, but we could walk there (there are sidewalks and such). I think that is where I would like them best. The highway would be a mental barrier to dropping by, but if we wanted a longer walk we could walk there. Not to mention that we live close to mass transit and that neighborhood does too so they could take that to places if they get to a point where they can't drive. 

 

Based on the highlighted part of your post, I think your MIL might be receiving mixed messages. They were making plans to stay where they are, which would have eliminated your problem. You wanted them closer, though, so they're making plans to be closer. It's also entirely possible your MIL reads what she wants into anything you or your dh say (this becomes more common with some people as they age), so your husband will need to be very clear and firm about what your boundaries are. 

 

Essentially what you need to do is communicate what you're willing to do/not do and let dh's parents make their own decision. From their decision, you then can choose how involved you're going to be.

 

We faced a similar situation when MIL/FIL didn't want to move into senior apts and lived 3000 mi away from any other family. MIL ended up taking care of FIL until he died, which was a significant amount of work. MIL still didn't want to move near family, but did move to senior independent living apts. She still wouldn't move until 7 years later when she saw firsthand what happened to another resident die without family nearby. (No one knew he'd passed away until his body could be smelled outside the apartment.) We had decided to visit and support her when we could. It wasn't optimal, but it wasn't our choice to make. I think you're in much the same position. BIL complicates things, but again, you and dh need to know what you're willing to do and what you won't do. There's nothing wrong with trying to help, but if the others don't want to accept the help you're able to give them, it doesn't mean you have to change the kind of help you offer. It just means they are making a different choice.

[HS Mom in NC]

1. No one can make you live with them.  When they bring up the idea simply say, "We're not going to do that." You can't control how they react to it, you can only control how you respond to them.  I would keep it to a matter of fact tone of voice and then I would refuse to discuss it further. Discussing it further is a rookie mistake.  It's not up for negotiation so the details are not relevant.  You're not going to do it.  Tell them as simply and as matter of factly as possible. Don't go into they why of it.  Say no and be done.  Talk about something else.  Hang up the phone.  Whatever. Just be done now.

 

2. You cannot control what house someone else buys.  They can buy whichever house they want and it's not something you have a say in.  Whether it needs updating or not isn't really any of your business.  I suggest not having an opinion on it.  Whether they move within walking distance, a short driving distance or a long driving distance there will be pros and cons for you and your husband.  Their level of independence (physical, mental and/or financial) over the rest of their lives will change over time and that will factor into the pros and cons.  What expectations your husband has to care for his elderly parents when they cannot care for themselves (physically, mentally and/or financially) has to be clearly thought out and taken into account in pros and cons list.  That's a conversation between you and your husband. There's no need to involve the in-laws in that discussion until they are not longer independent.  At that time you can simply tell them what you are willing to do. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

 

3. Your BIL is not someone your husband lives with on daily basis so he may not be the best assessor of your BIL's abilities. Until your parents are no longer willing or able to care for him, it's not your problem because he's not your responsibility.  Your in-laws will likely die or become unable to care for BIL before he dies so your husband should figure out what he will do about it (if anything) when that time comes. Your husband will need to keep in mind that just because BIL could learn to be independent doesn't mean he will be independent the moment his parents stop taking care of him.  Learning to be independent is a process and if he really can live on his own someone will have to take time to teach him how to live on his own.  Who does your husband expect to teach BIL those skills mom and dad didn't teach him?

[3 ladybugs]

Based on the highlighted part of your post, I think your MIL might be receiving mixed messages. They were making plans to stay where they are, which would have eliminated your problem. You wanted them closer, though, so they're making plans to be closer. It's also entirely possible your MIL reads what she wants into anything you or your dh say (this becomes more common with some people as they age), so your husband will need to be very clear and firm about what your boundaries are. 

 

Essentially what you need to do is communicate what you're willing to do/not do and let dh's parents make their own decision. From their decision, you then can choose how involved you're going to be.

 

We faced a similar situation when MIL/FIL didn't want to move into senior apts and lived 3000 mi away from any other family. MIL ended up taking care of FIL until he died, which was a significant amount of work. MIL still didn't want to move near family, but did move to senior independent living apts. She still wouldn't move until 7 years later when she saw firsthand what happened to another resident die without family nearby. (No one knew he'd passed away until his body could be smelled outside the apartment.) We had decided to visit and support her when we could. It wasn't optimal, but it wasn't our choice to make. I think you're in much the same position. BIL complicates things, but again, you and dh need to know what you're willing to do and what you won't do. There's nothing wrong with trying to help, but if the others don't want to accept the help you're able to give them, it doesn't mean you have to change the kind of help you offer. It just means they are making a different choice.

 

I didn't talk to them about my concerns. DH got an earful and a half but I didn't talk to them about my concerns. DH kept telling me "wait till they come out and we can discuss everything then". So I was doing that. Consequently they didn't get mixed signals. 

 

I did find a property that is in a better neighborhood that has what I would want of them if I was looking for them. Should I send that to her and say "Those other properties were in a bad neighborhood. I think this would be better for you, (name) and (name). (BIL) could live in the top half and you could live in the bottom. It isn't far from (the college) either so when (FIL) retires, you can send him there if you get tired of him. There even a Barnes and Noble there!" 

 

So should I reply or just ignore?

[zoobie]

I didn't talk to them about my concerns. DH got an earful and a half but I didn't talk to them about my concerns. DH kept telling me "wait till they come out and we can discuss everything then". So I was doing that. Consequently they didn't get mixed signals. 

 

I did find a property that is in a better neighborhood that has what I would want of them if I was looking for them. Should I send that to her and say "Those other properties were in a bad neighborhood. I think this would be better for you, (name) and (name). (BIL) could live in the top half and you could live in the bottom. It isn't far from (the college) either so when (FIL) retires, you can send him there if you get tired of him. There even a Barnes and Noble there!" 

 

So should I reply or just ignore?

 

Ignore. Don't pick out their house or plan their days.

[Tree Frog]

I didn't talk to them about my concerns. DH got an earful and a half but I didn't talk to them about my concerns. DH kept telling me "wait till they come out and we can discuss everything then". So I was doing that. Consequently they didn't get mixed signals. 

 

I did find a property that is in a better neighborhood that has what I would want of them if I was looking for them. Should I send that to her and say "Those other properties were in a bad neighborhood. I think this would be better for you, (name) and (name). (BIL) could live in the top half and you could live in the bottom. It isn't far from (the college) either so when (FIL) retires, you can send him there if you get tired of him. There even a Barnes and Noble there!" 

 

So should I reply or just ignore?

 

Thanks for the clarification. Sorry I misunderstood. Glad there weren't any mixed messages!

 

I think if you would like them to live in that neighborhood/near you, they might appreciate you forwarding the property to them.