Hypothetical Question about spouse having an affair

[Tsuga]

Fault wouldn't even come in to play. Do I fault my ex in my divorce? Yes. But my decisions after we split are mine and mine alone. He doesn't deserve any more credit than that. 

 

Exactly... I guess I think it would be a very different discussion if we were talking about whether it was morally permissible or not to begin dating before the judge's final decree. So I was trying to point out that you could have any number of opinions on that and still answer the question in the OP, as, she is not at fault for his decisions.

[klmama]

Yet another vote for telling this hypothetical woman not to leave the family home until the divorce is finalized and assets are legally sold/divided up. 

[gardenmom5]

If this relationship started before they agreed to dissolve the marriage, that's different. But the way it is presented is that it began after the marriage was agreed to be over and while they are just waiting on paperwork.

 

the way it was presented - was he SAYS he started the affair *soon* after they agreed to divorce.  I call BS on that. I would be surprised it that was *not* the true reason for the divorce -  I expect he was already cheating and wants to be with the squeeze.  now he doesn't have to hide her.

  hypothetically of course.

Edited March 9, 2016 by gardenmom5

[Corraleno]

OP, this happened to someone I know: 

Husband asked for a divorce, said they would split everything equally, she could have the kids, blah blah blah. Then started acting like a complete jerk, being really nasty and verbally abusive. She was constantly in tears, so he suggested maybe she should move out until everything was settled. Since she was so desperate to get away from the situation, she moved into a cheap, tiny little apartment. She assumed it would be temporary, and when the house was sold and she got her half of the (considerable) equity, she would get a better place. Husband then hired a total shark of a lawyer and not only did he end up with the house (that she had "abandoned"), he got the kids as well. The wife got nothing — she was capable of earning enough to support herself in her tiny apartment, so no spousal support. And the minute the divorce was final, the husband moved his girlfriend in. 

 

Even if a person believes that his or her spouse is being truthful and the settlement will be fair, it's still really really important to at least get a consultation with a lawyer. Even if there is no intention to "fight" over stuff, knowing your rights and obligations, and what judges are likely to award in similar circumstances, is really important. It's too easy for an innocent mistake (like moving out of your home "temporarily") to end up having far-reaching and unintended consequences.

[LucyStoner]

If both partners consider the marriage over, I don't consider having sexual contact with others an affair. If they are both working to legally separate it's not the same moral quagmire as having an extramarital sexual relationship when you are still married or consider yourself married.

 

If A and B are married and B goes and screws around with C that's not the "fault" of A. But in the scenario you described (essentially separated), I don't really see why A would care what B and C were doing. Though B is being a dumbass to get involved so quickly. Rebounds are not wise.

[TranquilMind]

Let us assume a couple is getting divorced. 

 

They have decided that the reasons for the dissolution of the marriage are to be share 50/50 between spouses so no one spouse is more of a "bad guy" than the other.

 

The couple is working towards the divorce by finding attorneys, etc., but the process takes time. In this time period they are still living together, still legally married, but are in full agreement that the marriage is over.

 

The husband starts a relationship with another person. They are sleeping together.

 

Is that "affair" partly the responsibility of the wife? As in, can everything that results from the marriage falling apart (ie, this affair) be attributed at least partly to the wife because she was partly responsible for the relationship being over, or does the husband own his actions completely on his own?

 

Just interested in hearing what people think .....

Oh hell, no.  If you are living with your spouse, to whom you vowed to remain faithful, do what you said.  That's about as sleazy as it gets, having an affair with someone while still living with your wife or husband. 

Deny yourself, you poor deprived husband, until you are at least out of the house, if you can't or won't make a go of the marriage, I would argue.  Goodness.

 

Yeah, I feel kind of strongly about this one.  This is just wrong. 

The affair is 100% solely the fault of the one engaging in it.  You can't blame someone else for what you decided to do. Nice try though, husband.  Not buying what you are selling. 

 

Let me tell you how I really feel...

[TranquilMind]

I think the hypothetical wife is being stupidly naive if she believes this hypothetical affair began after they agreed to this hypothetical "amicable" divorce. I'd bet my hypothetical bottom dollar that this was not the case.

I'm in on that hypothetical bet with my hypothetical dollars. This began long ago, at least emotionally.

[justasque]

 

Let us assume a couple is getting divorced. 

 

They have decided that the reasons for the dissolution of the marriage are to be share 50/50 between spouses so no one spouse is more of a "bad guy" than the other.

A "bad guy" in what context? In terms of how the situation is presented publicly to family and friends? Or in terms of how they feel about each other and the now ended marriage? Or in legal terms, meaning who is entitled to what in the splitting of property, etc.?  Does there have to be a "bad guy"?  Do you have to assign blame?

 

The couple is working towards the divorce by finding attorneys, etc., but the process takes time. In this time period they are still living together, still legally married, but are in full agreement that the marriage is over.

The husband starts a relationship with another person. They are sleeping together.

I do feel that people who are trying to be amicable with each other, and thus presumably trying to be tender about each others' feelings, would recognize that this would be an action that would need to be handled gently. This is particularly true, for me, if the spouses are living under the same roof. Not telling the other spouse about one's relationship, knowing that it will be a source of emotional upheaval, is insensitive, and puts into question whether the husband is serious about the "amicable" agreement the spouses have made with each other.

 

 

Is that "affair" partly the responsibility of the wife? As in, can everything that results from the marriage falling apart (ie, this affair) be attributed at least partly to the wife because she was partly responsible for the relationship being over, or does the husband own his actions completely on his own?

I really don't understand this question.

I don't understand the need to assign "responsibility".

The marriage is over. Each party will now decide how they will proceed, given that fact. Each of them may or may not enter other relationships over the rest of their lifetime. But they are not now a couple. They will still have to make certain decisions based on their lingering ties, mostly to the children of the marriage. And some of these decisions may need to be to some extent shared. But who, if anyone, they sleep with is a decision they will each make on their own.

 

If the husband is saying "I am only sleeping with this person because I am no longer sleeping with you, and to some extent that is your fault" there is some truth to that in the sense that if the marriage was not over they might still be together, but that is neither here nor there. This is a case of cause-and-effect, not responsibility/blame. It's in the same category as things like "If my parents hadn't died, I would not be in this orphanage", or "if the tornado hadn't hit our house, we would still live there".

 

I think the problem here is the FEELINGS involved with each step of cutting the marital ties.  I think it will do no good for either spouse to dwell on whose fault anything is.  OP, I hope this spouse is doing everything necessary to protect herself and her children in the division of property, and to find a way to process her ongoing feelings about the breakup without relying on the husband to help her, as he has already proven unreliable in this regard.

Edited March 9, 2016 by justasque

[Guest]

I haven't read any of the responses.

 

A man putting his p#nis in a woman can only ever be the fault of the man with the p#nis.  The end.

[sbgrace]

If the marriage is mutually agreed to as over, the spouse entering another relationship while still living together and not yet divorced is being insensitive. However, this isn't the same damage level as having an affair in my mind, even though they are not yet divorced.

 

I don't think assigning blame to marriage dissolution is helpful to anyone. It simply doesn't matter.

 

However, in my experience many men who end their marriages have another person waiting in the wings so to speak. Many physical affairs start out as emotional affairs/inappropriate sharing type friendships. Sometimes people tell themselves that an affair only occurs when there is a physical relationship. That is not true. Not Just Friends is a good book for a betrayed spouse to read. It's not just for the affair partners.

 

Affair partners, whether its emotional or physical, are solely responsible for the affair. Most people entering an affair tell themselves that their spouse is bad in some way or that their marriage is already over. They believe this. But healthy people with good boundaries don't enter into inappropriate relationships while married. Spouses share responsibility for marriage issues. But the spouse never shares responsibility for an unfaithful partner's decision to start another relationship while married.

 

If the marriage was really mutually agreed on as over, it's a different ballgame in my mind. In your hypothetical situation, that may not be the case, even if the actual physical stuff started later. But maybe the spouse did actually stop and end the marriage before fully pursuing the affair. That's classier than most people in that situation.

 

Even if it started in some way before the request to the end the marriage, it doesn't matter in terms of the divorce though. Anyone in an divorce needs a good lawyer. In this case there is deception involved at some level. This makes that need for a lawyer even more clear in my mind.

[Guest]

dp

Edited March 9, 2016 by OKBud

[Guest]

I think that when you agree to get a divorce you should expect everyone to start bumping uglies with the whole neighborhood.

 

And be pleasantly surprised if no proof of the other person doing it is dropped in your lap with a marquis sign attached.

 

Just pragmatically, expecting sexual fidelity from someone you've agreed to divorce isn't super wise.

 

And yeah, the person (s) should wait until everyone at least has their own place, but such tactless hurtfulness is not uncommon.

[Guest]

 

Even if a person believes that his or her spouse is being truthful and the settlement will be fair, it's still really really important to at least get a consultation with a lawyer. Even if there is no intention to "fight" over stuff, knowing your rights and obligations, and what judges are likely to award in similar circumstances, is really important. It's too easy for an innocent mistake (like moving out of your home "temporarily") to end up having far-reaching and unintended consequences.

 

And the thing is! is that anyone who really is going to stay amicable won't feel threatened or act out if the other party consults a lawyer.

 

I have friends that have gotten divorced so amicably, and had the whole thing mediated. Everyone still had divorce lawyers look it all over.

[Lisa R.]

???

 

I don't consider that an affair. I consider it unwise timing, tacky, and immature but not an affair. Marriage is not a piece of paper. That said, I find the question bizarre.

 

The people involved in the relationship are the responsible parties.

I always appreciate Joanne's personal and professional insight. However, this time I do not agree.

 

The marriage is legally over when the divorce happens. Many people in unhappy situations could believe their marriage is "over" when, really, they're still married but unfulfilled, contemplating divorce, considering counseling, etc.

 

In this hypothetical situation, the couple is headed toward divorce. They are still married while legal stuff is sorted. Husband (not Ex-husband) is secretly sleeping with someone while living with his current wife. Call me old fashioned, but I think dating is for single people. What the OP is describing is even beyond dating.

 

I also figure if you are doing something in secret, you're probably doing something wrong. There secrecy here adds to the deception.

 

To answer the OP's question, she is not responsible for what her spouse does and certainly not responsible for what he does in secret.

[Arcadia]

Legally crappy people have turn around and say that the spouse does not fulfill "spousal duties" and so they look elsewhere. So even the at fault spouses can point fingers at their spouses in court.

 

That is why adultery divorce cases are so messy and often times traumatic.

 

My cousin went away to work leaving his first wife and kids behind. Then he had affairs out of which one (that we know of) resulted in children. He had no intention of divorcing and did gave money to his wife for her and kids. The other lady wants to be the legal wife so he initiated divorce. So his was abandonment and adultery. People (male and female) in similar scenarios have blamed their spouse for not uprooting as a reason for adultery. Divorce is not logical and gets ugly once money is involved.

[LucyStoner]

Legally crappy people have turn around and say that the spouse does not fulfill "spousal duties" and so they look elsewhere. So even the at fault spouses can point fingers at their spouses in court.

 

That is why adultery divorce cases are so messy and often times traumatic.

 

My cousin went away to work leaving his first wife and kids behind. Then he had affairs out of which one (that we know of) resulted in children. He had no intention of divorcing and did gave money to his wife for her and kids. The other lady wants to be the legal wife so he initiated divorce. So his was abandonment and adultery. People (male and female) in similar scenarios have blamed their spouse for not uprooting as a reason for adultery. Divorce is not logical and gets ugly once money is involved.

In my community property state the courts don't factor in adultery to the divorce proceedings at all. The judge will generally shut down any talk of affairs and stick to the asset/liability division, child support (determined by a formula), parenting plan and the possible need for alimony (which is time limited in most cases). Having an affair will not diminish one's position in court or the likelihood of getting joint custody. The only things that affect custody are matters relating to the fitness of each parent- are they abusive, addicts and unavailable to parent? The default is joint custody. Edited March 9, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Tsuga]

 

 

If the husband is saying "I am only sleeping with this person because I am no longer sleeping with you, and to some extent that is your fault" there is some truth to that in the sense that if the marriage was not over they might still be together

 

In many states it only takes one person to get a divorce. In my case, I would not agree with this because I repeatedly worked to stay married, let him come back repeatedly, and he still kept leaving and making violent and abusive overtures.

 

I honestly do not think that I could have done anything about the marriage not being over. I was literally prepared to sacrifice my life. He left. I filed papers and accepted the divorce to protect my kids, but had I not even done that: it wouldn't make any difference.

 

It takes two to make a marriage, but one person can quite literally throw the whole thing down the tubes. You can't make an abuser be a partner no matter how good you are. You can't make someone stay after they've emptied the bank account and said they have found someone else, even if you've been faithful and done everything physically possible to make it work.

[MinivanMom]

And the thing is! is that anyone who really is going to stay amicable won't feel threatened or act out if the other party consults a lawyer.

 

I have friends that have gotten divorced so amicably, and had the whole thing mediated. Everyone still had divorce lawyers look it all over.

 

This.

 

If everything the hypothetical husband is doing is on the up-&-up then he won't be upset about his wife consulting a lawyer.

 

And if the husband is really planning to be amicable and split everything 50/50 then he won't mind at all if his wife consults a lawyer prior to moving out of the house.

 

Please hire a lawyer. Please don't move out of your home until you have done so. And please don't sign anything until you have had an attorney look it over.

[nd293]

Is that "affair" partly the responsibility of the wife?

Honestly, I think calling this an affair is a misnomer. The marriage is over. Personally in such a situation my preference would be to avoid another relationship until the marriage is legally over, but this new relationship is not a betrayal of the marriage. It's simply the next step after divorce. There is no issue of responsibility here at all, as there has been no betrayal. There is just the sad end of a marriage and the moving on to new, separate futures.

[Ellie]

the husband owns this one - completely.  I wouldn't take his claims of it started after the seperation at face value either - I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the relationship is established - and is *really* why he wanted a divorce.

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[Seasider]

So, he's starting to show his true, not-so-amicable colors, aye?

[Ellie]

I think the hypothetical wife is being stupidly naive if she believes this hypothetical affair began after they agreed to this hypothetical "amicable" divorce. I'd bet my hypothetical bottom dollar that this was not the case.

 

:iagree: Oh heck yeah.

[bolt.]

I think, at the basics of "responsibility" it can be said that if "spouse A" says to "spouse B" -- "Our marriage is over, I don't care what you do. Go date. I'm not interested in your sex life and it doesn't matter to me what you do." -- I think there is a message there that 'condones' an affair. It's a permission statement.

 

That might be meaningful if "A" was saying, "B betrayed me! B slept around! B had an affair and ruined everything!" -- B would have ground to stand on, saying, "A knew I was dating. A didn't object. I had A's permission to do everything I did towards the end of our legal marriage, including sexual activity."

 

Does that amount to 'some responsibility'? I don't know about that wording (probably not) but it certainly is a meaningful nuance (in cases where it is the case that 'a sense of permission' was given between the spouses during a divorce).

[SparklyUnicorn]

Honestly, I think calling this an affair is a misnomer. The marriage is over. Personally in such a situation my preference would be to avoid another relationship until the marriage is legally over, but this new relationship is not a betrayal of the marriage. It's simply the next step after divorce. There is no issue of responsibility here at all, as there has been no betrayal. There is just the sad end of a marriage and the moving on to new, separate futures.

 

I see no point it getting hung up on it and it changes nothing in terms of the status of the old marriage, but it would change, at least for me, trusting that he will honor the divorce terms on his own without legal intervention since he lied.  I mean really why didn't he mention this?  He probably was afraid she'd get a good lawyer. 

[clementine]

If nothing else, he is completely disrespectful and should understand that 'playing nice' has gone out the window.  

[HRAAB]

The persons involved in the affair are solely responsible for the affair.  The cheating spouse is responsible for his/her behavior.  End of discussion.

[zoobie]

If B were dragging out the divorce proceedings just to torture A, I could see some "blame" there. I've seen contested divorce cases take forever to litigate intentionally by one party. Usually to use up the other's ability to pay for their attorney but also to prevent the other spouse from being able to move on. This one couple owned a business and a residence together. They had been through therapy and decided it was irretrievably broken. He wanted kids and she didn't, and he was almost 40. They hadn't been together for many months before they established separate residences. They were trying to dissolve the business and sell their house during the recession ~2007. She kept sabotaging deals, and an amicable situation turned to litigation that cost him $$$$. During this time, he met someone, fell in love, and they had a baby before the THREE YEAR LONG (not including separation prior to filing) case settled. And knowing the wife and seeing some of the case, yeah, she was 100% to blame for the delay. If I were in that type of situation, I wouldn't wait years for paperwork. If I met someone, the fact that it was "adultery" on some technical level would be the other spouse's fault for dragging out the divorce.

[wonderchica]

I'm surprised so many posters seem surprised that separated people date. It's very, very common. I wouldn't like it either if I were the wife, especially when we were still living together. But it is very common. When I was online dating it seemed a huge number of men were listing themselves as "separated".

[Crimson Wife]

Let us assume a couple is getting divorced. 

 

They have decided that the reasons for the dissolution of the marriage are to be share 50/50 between spouses so no one spouse is more of a "bad guy" than the other.

 

The couple is working towards the divorce by finding attorneys, etc., but the process takes time. In this time period they are still living together, still legally married, but are in full agreement that the marriage is over.

 

The husband starts a relationship with another person. They are sleeping together.

 

Is that "affair" partly the responsibility of the wife? As in, can everything that results from the marriage falling apart (ie, this affair) be attributed at least partly to the wife because she was partly responsible for the relationship being over, or does the husband own his actions completely on his own?

 

Just interested in hearing what people think .....

 

I haven't read the other responses, but I don't consider a soon-to-be-ex who is separated and in the process of divorcing as "having an affair" if he/she starts a new relationship. The marriage is over even if the legal proceedings are dragging on.

 

Now if the couple is separated but supposedly trying to salvage the marriage, then that would be adultery and the adulterous spouse would be 100% in the wrong. I don't care if the cheated-upon spouse is also committing adultery and started first (an excuse I've heard), that doesn't make it ok. Adultery is wrong, period.

[Crimson Wife]

I'm surprised so many posters seem surprised that separated people date. It's very, very common. I wouldn't like it either if I were the wife, especially when we were still living together. But it is very common. When I was online dating it seemed a huge number of men were listing themselves as "separated".

 

I've had past experiences with men hitting on me claiming to be "separated". With a few that I might've been potentially interested in, I've told them to call me after their divorce is finalized. Never received such a call, which is all I need to know about the validity of their supposed "separation".

[Kerileanne99]

Geez. NO way. Not even if the woman was the worst, most cold-hearted wretch on the planet. And if blame was being assigned by hypothetical spouse I would have definite suspicions that the relationship between hubby and other started much earlier than the claim.

 

Even when parties amicably decide to call it quits and agree they 'fell out of love' both have a duty not to fall out of love and trip into the genitalia of someone else until either both spouses agree that pursuing other relationships is acceptable or are no longer living together at the very least.

Sounds as though someone knows they are in danger of losing out financially due to an affair.

[Reefgazer]

IMO, it takes two people to make a marriage work, and it takes two to break it down, no matter if it breaks down due to an affair or some other reason.  An affair isn't the cause of a marriage breakdown, it is just another symptom (like other disrespectful behavior toward a spouse).  I also don't consider a realtionship undertaken while legally separated to be an affair.

Edited March 10, 2016 by reefgazer

[Ellie]

I'm surprised so many posters seem surprised that separated people date. It's very, very common. I wouldn't like it either if I were the wife, especially when we were still living together. But it is very common. When I was online dating it seemed a huge number of men were listing themselves as "separated".

 

Of course I'm surprised. A marriage is a marriage until there's a paper saying it isn't.

 

I am also surprised that someone would think it's not weird to be going through a divorce while still living together. :001_huh:

 

Anyone who dates someone who is still married is asking for trouble, BTW.

[Scarlett]

IMO, it takes two people to make a marriage work, and it takes two to break it down, no matter if it breaks down due to an affair or some other reason. An affair isn't the cause of a marriage breakdown, it is just another symptom (like other disrespectful behavior toward a spouse). I also don't consider a realtionship undertaken while legally separated to be an affair.

No. Just no. One person can easily destroy a marriage.

[Scarlett]

Of course I'm surprised. A marriage is a marriage until there's a paper saying it isn't.

 

I am also surprised that someone would think it's not weird to be going through a divorce while still living together. :001_huh:

 

Anyone who dates someone who is still married is asking for trouble, BTW.

Exactly. Where is the line of marriage if it isn't the paper?

 

And who,are the people who decide to date someone who is separated.

[gardenmom5]

IMO, it takes two people to make a marriage work, and it takes two to break it down, no matter if it breaks down due to an affair or some other reason. An affair isn't the cause of a marriage breakdown, it is just another symptom (like other disrespectful behavior toward a spouse). I also don't consider a realtionship undertaken while legally separated to be an affair.

Uh, no. It only takes ONE person to be divorced.

[zoobie]

IMO, it takes two people to make a marriage work, and it takes two to break it down, no matter if it breaks down due to an affair or some other reason. An affair isn't the cause of a marriage breakdown, it is just another symptom (like other disrespectful behavior toward a spouse). I also don't consider a realtionship undertaken while legally separated to be an affair.

Yes and no. No marriage is perfect, but the people I know whose marriages were affected by affairs, the women were blindsided. They weren't fighting or not having sex or not connecting for long periods of time. One's DH cheated on her right after she had a baby. So maybe he had gone a few weeks, but... The other found out the day she got a positive pregnancy test for their 2nd child. I don't think there's any excuse for cheating. Say "It's over. I'm out of here" before you get involved with another person.

 

Whether both parties share blame in the marriage breakdown is a totally separate issue.

[Carol in Cal.]

How this all looks to me:

Looks like the hypothetical guy has been focussed on what is going to get him the best possible divorce settlement for a long time.  Over a period of time he has convinced his hypothetical wife that a divorce that he wanted and she didn't is actually a good mutual decision that is equally due to both parties.  He has waited until the kids are out of the house, and is unlikely to be forced to provide further financial support for them even though they are in college--but has convinced everyone concerned that he will do so voluntarily because he is so amiable and truthful and such a nice guy.  He has convinced his wife to move out, leaving primary possession of their primary asset to him alone, into temporary free accommodations, so that when the divorce goes before a judge her living expenses will not justify much alimony either, but has convinced her that he will be generous and fair.  And he has gotten involved with someone else, had an affair during the marriage, and lied about it until caught redhanded, at which point he attempted to convince his hypothetical wife that this nonhypothetical other woman is HER fault as much as his, maybe more.

 

If this is true, and it sure looks like it, I hope that:

1.  The wife does not sign anything.

2.  The wife does not say in front of witnesses or even in private that she thinks the break up is her fault.

3.  The wife gets a lawyer.

4.  The wife does not move out of the house.

5.  The wife stops listening to the husband's BS.

[Ellie]

How this all looks to me:

Looks like the hypothetical guy has been focussed on what is going to get him the best possible divorce settlement for a long time.  Over a period of time he has convinced his hypothetical wife that a divorce that he wanted and she didn't is actually a good mutual decision that is equally due to both parties.  He has waited until the kids are out of the house, and is unlikely to be forced to provide further financial support for them even though they are in college--but has convinced everyone concerned that he will do so voluntarily because he is so amiable and truthful and such a nice guy.  He has convinced his wife to move out, leaving primary possession of their primary asset to him alone, into temporary free accommodations, so that when the divorce goes before a judge her living expenses will not justify much alimony either, but has convinced her that he will be generous and fair.  And he has gotten involved with someone else, had an affair during the marriage, and lied about it until caught redhanded, at which point he attempted to convince his hypothetical wife that this nonhypothetical other woman is HER fault as much as his, maybe more.

 

If this is true, and it sure looks like it, I hope that:

1.  The wife does not sign anything.

2.  The wife does not say in front of witnesses or even in private that she thinks the break up is her fault.

3.  The wife gets a lawyer.

4.  The wife does not move out of the house.

5.  The wife stops listening to the husband's BS.

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[goldberry]

Say "It's over. I'm out of here" before you get involved with another person.

 

 

 

This.  Show the tiniest modicum of respect, if not for your spouse, then for your own self and the vow you made.

 

You think you can't do even that much?  Then you never took the marriage seriously enough in the first place.  I am aware that sounds very judgy.  So be it.  

[mommybee]

I also don't consider a realtionship undertaken while legally separated to be an affair.

But they aren't legally separated. They have just agreed to divorce. A legal separation is almost as much work as a divorce according to the lawyer I saw which is why I haven't gone that route.

[fraidycat]

How this all looks to me:

Looks like the hypothetical guy has been focussed on what is going to get him the best possible divorce settlement for a long time. Over a period of time he has convinced his hypothetical wife that a divorce that he wanted and she didn't is actually a good mutual decision that is equally due to both parties. He has waited until the kids are out of the house, and is unlikely to be forced to provide further financial support for them even though they are in college--but has convinced everyone concerned that he will do so voluntarily because he is so amiable and truthful and such a nice guy. He has convinced his wife to move out, leaving primary possession of their primary asset to him alone, into temporary free accommodations, so that when the divorce goes before a judge her living expenses will not justify much alimony either, but has convinced her that he will be generous and fair. And he has gotten involved with someone else, had an affair during the marriage, and lied about it until caught redhanded, at which point he attempted to convince his hypothetical wife that this nonhypothetical other woman is HER fault as much as his, maybe more.

 

If this is true, and it sure looks like it, I hope that:

1. The wife does not sign anything.

2. The wife does not say in front of witnesses or even in private that she thinks the break up is her fault.

3. The wife gets a lawyer.

4. The wife does not move out of the house.

5. The wife stops listening to the husband's BS.

This. All of it. Absolutely.

 

Stay IN the house. Get a lawyer. Get STI tested. Yesterday.

 

I would bet real money that this "recent affair" has been going on since pre "let's get divorced" and is, in fact, a large part of the reason for it. I'd almost guarantee it.

[ktgrok]

IMO, it takes two people to make a marriage work, and it takes two to break it down, no matter if it breaks down due to an affair or some other reason.  An affair isn't the cause of a marriage breakdown, it is just another symptom (like other disrespectful behavior toward a spouse).  I also don't consider a realtionship undertaken while legally separated to be an affair.

 

No, it takes two to make it work and one to ruin it. 

[ktgrok]

Exactly. Where is the line of marriage if it isn't the paper?

 

And who,are the people who decide to date someone who is separated.

 

For me we were no longer married in my eyes when we lived separately, had drawn up a custody agreement, had divided our assets, and had no intention of ever being together again. No, I'm not saying that minutes later I was dating, but when the divorce took over a year and a half AFTER we'd both moved out and agreed to divorce, yes I had moved on by then. 

 

My ex and I were on the same page, there was no sneaking around, no deceit. No chance of reconciliation. I didn't expect to fall in love that quickly, but I did. And have been with him 10 years now, so it wasn't rebound thing. The minute we met i knew he was the one. 

[gardenmom5]

For me we were no longer married in my eyes when we lived separately, had drawn up a custody agreement, had divided our assets, and had no intention of ever being together again. No, I'm not saying that minutes later I was dating, but when the divorce took over a year and a half AFTER we'd both moved out and agreed to divorce, yes I had moved on by then. 

 

My ex and I were on the same page, there was no sneaking around, no deceit. No chance of reconciliation. I didn't expect to fall in love that quickly, but I did. And have been with him 10 years now, so it wasn't rebound thing. The minute we met i knew he was the one. 

 

except in this 'hypothetical' case - that isn't the case.  they're still living in the SAME HOUSE.  paperwork is still in process.

 

and the likelihood he "only recently" started with the squeeze . . .  yeah right.  I've got some ocean front property in arizona to sell.  most likely it's been going on quite awhile (long enough she sends him "have a nice day" texts)  - and is THE REASON why're their divorcing.

 

eta: to correct a pronoun.  I hate being sick . . .

Edited March 10, 2016 by gardenmom5

[Scarlett]

For me we were no longer married in my eyes when we lived separately, had drawn up a custody agreement, had divided our assets, and had no intention of ever being together again. No, I'm not saying that minutes later I was dating, but when the divorce took over a year and a half AFTER we'd both moved out and agreed to divorce, yes I had moved on by then.

 

My ex and I were on the same page, there was no sneaking around, no deceit. No chance of reconciliation. I didn't expect to fall in love that quickly, but I did. And have been with him 10 years now, so it wasn't rebound thing. The minute we met i knew he was the one.

Although I don't agree with you, I will say your situation is not the kind I am talking about.

 

My now Xh convinced his gf he and I were separated in the same house....that I was sleeping in the guest room. I wasn't.

[ktgrok]

except in this 'hypothetical' case - that isn't the case.  they're still living in the SAME HOUSE.  paperwork is still in process.

 

and the likelihood he "only recently" started with the squeeze . . .  yeah right.  I've got some ocean front property in arizona to sell.  most likely it's been going on quite awhile (long enough she sends me "have a nice day" texts)  - and is THE REASON why're their divorcing.

 

Oh, I agree!!!! I didn't mean to say it was the same...was just saying that there was room to say that maybe people might move on before it is legal, depending on how long the legalities take. But yeah, not having even filed yet, and still living together? That's a whole different ball of wax. 

[ktgrok]

Although I don't agree with you, I will say your situation is not the kind I am talking about.

 

My now Xh convinced his gf he and I were separated in the same house....that I was sleeping in the guest room. I wasn't.

 

I think you and I disagree, but kindly :)  I am okay with that, and I know you are too. 

 

And I think that's just awful! I have heard of that and yeah, no way. If I meet a guy still living with his ex, I'm going to assume its NOT an ex! When people break up they by and large don't keep living together. That's kind of a big clue!

[Joanne]

IMO, it takes two people to make a marriage work, and it takes two to break it down, no matter if it breaks down due to an affair or some other reason.  An affair isn't the cause of a marriage breakdown, it is just another symptom (like other disrespectful behavior toward a spouse).  I also don't consider a realtionship undertaken while legally separated to be an affair.

 

Believing this kept me in a miserable, abusive, soul-killing marriage.

 

Personally and professionally, I no longer believe it. Not even close. It does take 2 to make a *marriage* (not a piece of paper saying you are married) but it only takes 1 to have a marriage fail (which can happen regardless of paper status.) Often the lack of a thriving marriage is shared, but, no, I emphatically and with every fiber of my being assert that 1 person can make a marriage fail and the other partner can be completely innocent of the factors that lead to a divorce.

[Joanne]

 Say "It's over. I'm out of here" before you get involved with another person.

 

 

 

 

I agree with this, and more. I waited until my xh was out of the house and the divorce was filed (but not finalized) before dating. But even that was not enough time to process the marriage, transition to not being married after 14 years, support and guide the kids, rebuild identity and work on me (and why/how I ignored signs that would have lead me to not marry him to begin with.)

 

My biggest role in the demise of marriage # 2 was getting into it in the first place. It was too soon. I know believe that people need A LOT of time and often professional or trained help in exiting serious relationships before they are able to make good choices about the next.

 

If I had a do-over, I'd date (various men, and nothing serious) when xh had the kids until the kids were launched.