Husband wants DD8 to stop reading "garbage"

[Pen]

Attending a Shakespeare play and then having it be a read aloud (and or using filmed versions) could be fine for age 8, but reading the works of Shakespeare generally at age 8 is silly. IMHO.   What did your DH read at her age? What is he reading now?

[AimeeM]

Please tell him to lay off. If my parents had insisted I read Shakespeare (or anything similar) at age 8 (or even 10 or 11), I would have simply stopped reading.

[MotherGoose]

Everyone needs a little fluff now and then. Doesn't he ever read even webpages or magazines or things that aren't "literature?" My oldest was an early and voracious reader. I have found that now, at nearly 10, she's reached a level of comfort in her reading abilities that I need to push her onward. Not to Shakespeare, of course, but to things that challenge her, while allowing her to revert to old favorites or easy books when she wants to be entertained by reading but not actually "learning." I do the same thing. I don't watch tv so reading fluff fills that time for me. Dd doesn't watch tv either, but enjoys reading books that are too easy for entertainment. It's fine with me. I do steer her away from things I really dislike, but then I is she'll read them so quickly it won't even be much time spent. In the past week, she's read " gentle Ben," which I assigned, some Harry Potter for the 10th time, some picture books, some magazines, and whatever else she can find.

[BooksandBoys]

Not a study, but I'll offer my anecdote.

 

I was your daughter at age 8, right down to the Nancy Drew and Trixie Belden. I grew into a voracious reader of all genres, including nonfiction and classics. In addition, the vocabulary in the original Nancy Drew series is spectacular!

[mamiof5]

Groupon has a set of 20 Shakespeare books for kids for $30 (usually over $100 set). We got that for our kids, also got it for a niece for her bday, we love it! Not saying your choices are not OK, but if dh wants her to read Shakespeare once in a while that could be a way to do that without breaking the bank or waiting til she can read the actual plays :)

[laundrycrisis]

Good gravy. Tell him to get off his high horse. Be glad she doesn't want to play online games 24/7 and let her read what she wants in her spare time. I read Trixie Belden books, East of Eden, The Dollmaker, Brave New World, Fahrenheit 451 and A Wrinkle in Time all in the same summer when I was too young for some of the content. The kid books didn't prevent me from reading the other ones. If anyone had forced me to read anything I would have shut down. He should feed his own literary aspirations and stay out of her free reading.

[Squawky Acres]

I remember now where I read that "study" about reading fluff being just fine, and increasing fluency. It was actually an anecdote told by a college professor in Jim Trelease's Read Aloud Handbook. Thank you everyone for the additional anecdotes and suggestions.

 

I do read out loud to the children every day from quality children's literature and classics. I look at AO, Sonlight, Mensa, Newberry award winners, and other book lists. Recently, we have read some of the Narnia series, Treasure Island, Peter Pan, Jungle Book, Mrs. Piggle Wiggle, The Blue Fairy Book, 101 Dalmations, and Robin Hood. All were well-received and loved, although my DD6 had trouble following some of the vocabulary and dialect in Robin Hood. This is why I am confident that DD8's tastes will develop just fine. She loves a good story, and understands what is great about these books that we share.

 

For school books, I present a choice of two books that I think she would enjoy, and that are roughly at her reading level. Actually, I don't really know what her reading level is, as she seems to be able to read just about anything; but so far, I have only assigned books that are commonly given to upper elementary students, as there is so much written for that age range, and I want the content to be age appropriate and not overwhelming.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Squawky Acres

[Tanaqui]

You know, I'm reminded of Claudia Kishi, from the Baby-Sitter's Club books... which I spent way too much of my money on as a child. My money! Hah, my parents' money!

 

Anyway, Claudia - who probably suffered from some form of learning disability that was completely ignored - liked to read exactly one thing: Nancy Drew. But because her parents didn't understand child development very well, or Claudia at all, they banned this and she had to hide the books around her room.

 

And her reading never improved, and not just because those books had rules against meaningful, lasting character development.

[KSinNS]

I agree with pretty much everybody-fluff okay for fun, you have a super reading list, and your daughter need not read Shakespeare at 8 unless she and you feel inspired. 

 

However, I actually did read my kids most of Julius Caesar last year. Once they got over the first bit (and I translated), they LOVED it. We didn't finish, and this year has been nuts (crazy work schedule, pregnancy, family illness, etc) but I'm done work next week, and I may try to finish it for them before our little friend arrives. They keep bugging me, especially Miss T who is my big reader. They were fascinated by the story of betrayal and all the bloodshed and such. And the best part was for a couple of weeks Mr. D would attack his brother screaming "Cry havoc and let loose the dogs of warrrrrrrr!" That alone was worth the price of admission.

[Farrar]

It seems obvious that he'll never read the collected works of Shakespeare, but maybe you can get him to read this thread. And, hopefully, we'll all keep laughing at the absurdity of his expectations and hoping he doesn't ruin books for your lovely dd.

 

I can't help but add that while reading Shakespeare retellings is all well and good (we also performed Shakespeare in short versions starting around that age)... Island of the Blue Dolphins is the equivalent of Shakespeare for an 8 yo - a rich book, a classic, a book with challenging themes, a piece of childhood cultural literacy. It's exactly what she should be reading. I can't get over the audacity of a parent who thinks that's not good enough for an 8 yo.

[pehp]

She's 8! I think she's okay! 

 

FWIW, I was engrossed in Nancy Drew through the age of about 12/13.  I'm a voracious reader to this day, but I read broadly (and love the classics).  But I did read The Babysitters Club and Nancy Drew and Sweet Valley High for years as a girl.  It didn't impede my ability to digest tough stuff; I majored in philosophy at college and spent years reading Aristotle, Plato, Kant, Heidegger, Descartes......

 

she'll be just fine.  Let her love reading.  

[Tanaqui]

I can't get over the audacity of a parent who thinks that's not good enough for an 8 yo.

 

Well, there are some people who think it's a little racist, but that's not a criticism of the quality of the writing. If anything, the fact that it has a review over at American Indians in Children's Literature proves that the writing is good quality! Nobody bothers reviewing trash.

 

[PeterPan]

We are actually reading Little Princess as a read aloud right now.  I'll have to make sure DH is in the room when I read that part . . .

 

Honestly, it is so hard to keep everyone's competing interests satisfied.  I do want to respect DH's wishes and concerns as a parent.  I want him to help set the goals and direction in our homeschool because they are his children as well, and it is our joint decision to homeschool.  He also has more of the STEM perspective as a software company executive, so I find that extremely valuable as well to balance my interest in literature and the arts.  But I hate that "Dad as principal of the homeschool" idea that was popular in certain homeschooling workshops and conventions (when I used to go to conventions).  The non-teaching parent can sometimes be so far removed from the day-to-day teaching that he or she can have completely unrealistic standards and ideas.  It would be disastrous to allow the parent who is not the primary teacher to choose curriculum and reading lists unless he or she has done a great deal of self-education on the topic (starting with reading TWTM).

Yeah, I would so TOTALLY get over this and get some feminist common sense.  If he's not taking the time to learn about educational theories and the materials, he's PROBABLY not going to have an educated opinion on these things.  

 

The reality is, you want your dc reading a mix of things.  Some are at instructional level, but the BULK will be a grade or two (or more!) lower for building fluency.  And you'll read across genres.  There's a BIG GAP between reading Nancy Drew or Trixie Belden, both of which are CLASSIC, well-written, time honored, quality children's literature options, and being hooked on SMUT and twaddle.  They're just not the same.  And if he had LEARNED about children's literature, he would know about the FANTASTIC role Nancy Drew's character played in inspiring girls to achieve and be strong and successful.

 

My dd is probably going to do pretty well on the ACT (assuming her sample tests are close to accurate), and at that age she tried to binge on nothing but comics!!  Oh I consoled myself that they were Calvin and Hobbes and filled with great literary terms, but reality was she loved COMICS!!  You're kids aren't even close to stooping that low, haha.  Your kids will probably be FINE.

 

Give them a blend, read across genres, reward and nurture time spent reading.  As long as the overall level is going up and they're reading a variety of genres, I just wouldn't sweat it.  

 

I just don't think you need to worry.  I think you give them lots of time reading lots of things, and it all pans out.  And whatever they read for pleasure is what they choose.  If it's crummy, like really and truly twaddle, me I'd just kinda vertical file the book or return it to the library or whatever.  But if it's well-written, with inspiring characters, and the only quibble is the reading level, I'd get over it.  Repeated readings and time spent reading at lower levels builds FLUENCY.  It's actually really IMPORTANT.

 

Maybe he's from a culture that has academic pressures?  Some are like that.  It's ok to know where he's coming from and then stand up and say but I've got this under control, we're ok.  As long as they're doing things for you that are on grade level during normal times, I'd walk away.  Oh, but you are introducing them to shakespeare, right?  At that age, the picture books are FABULOUS.  Hamlet  Ouch, they've gotten expensive!  Well see if your library has them.  Hamlet For Kids (Shakespeare Can Be Fun!)  this looks fun.  My dd enjoyed the Shakespeare comics put out by Oxford Press that VP sells.  Sure do Shakespeare.  You can even watch the plays together!  The Ambrose versions are terrific.  

[Sneezyone]

Help! Where are all of those studies saying that elementary-aged children who read voraciously will soon become excellent readers and choose to move on to the better stuff --- even if they are starting with kids' series books?

 

My DD8 is currently reading "Island of the Blue Dolphins," at my request (a few chapters a day for school), and Nancy Drew and Trixie Belden on her own. She has also chosen titles like My Side of the Mountain and Sarah Whitcher's Story for her free reading. I love to see her curled up in front of the wood stove with an enjoyable book, even if it is not high-quality literature, and perhaps too easy for her reading level. I feel that reading so voraciously is helping her fluency, and that she will select the better stuff on her own later on. I was at the same place at her age, but soon lost interest in the series titles, and started reading the classics instead. I don't think my parents did anything special to make that happen -- except making a high-quality home library available to us, and reading classics to us from an early age. They never complained about my book choice or forced me to read something more "serious."

 

My DH is concerned about the quality of books she is reading. He points to a female relative of his, who still plows through romance and mystery novels and does not read anything of substance. I think there are relevant differences (said female relative is highly intelligent, but did not have involved parents, a lot of books, or a high level of education in her home). I am confident that our daughter will move on when she is ready.

 

DH would like to sit down and review our daughter's reading list, and would like me to assign some more advanced titles, such as the complete works of Shakespeare. I think I can talk him down from that, but would love to be able to show him some articles or studies, or something to corroborate my personal experience and encourage him to leave DD8 alone.

What? I am almost 40 years old and love a good romance novel! Everything you read needn't be 'high quality literature' and, for the record, my familiarity with middle ages and early modern vocab was enhanced by this kind of reading. Garderobe anyone? This hasn't prevented me from reading Nietsche. Let the kid read!! It's all good stuff. *muttering* I can't imagine yanking the Littles series away from my DS. He can read at a much higher level but he's enjoying the tales and that is enough. Forcing more mature content is a killjoy move.

[Tanaqui]

There's a BIG GAP between reading Nancy Drew or Trixie Belden, both of which are CLASSIC, well-written, time honored, quality children's literature options, and being hooked on SMUT and twaddle.

 

Well, twaddle is a fairly ill-defined term, but if we accept as a tentative definition that much twaddle consists of ghostwritten books churned out at a rate of three or more a year, with dozens of them in print at any given time and little to no character development over the course of a story or even multiple books, then efforts from the Stratemyer Syndicate certainly qualify.

[daijobu]

Can I say I'm thrilled to hear that people are still reading Trixie Belden!  I loved those books.  

[PeterPan]

I've never heard anyone define twaddle as meaning ghostwritten books.  I've usually taken it to mean mind-numbing stupidity.  There's a lot of it out there, yes.  I make room for potato chip reading, stuff that is light but actually has SOME virtue to it.  Then there's utter trash, something that just wastes brain energy and has no redemptive value, no reason to be read at all.

 

 Nancy Drew: Smart Women's Role Model - ABC News

Edited January 14, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[forty-two]

I grew up on both Nancy Drew and Trixie Belden (and Baby-sitters Club and SVH and others). As a kid I couldn't fathom why Claudia's parents in BSC thought Nancy Drews were twaddle, but as I've read some out loud to the girls (and they were the older classic ones), I can see why. Very melodramatic and manipulative cliff-hanger endings to almost every chapter, and two-dimensional, stereotyped characters. (But the vocabulary and sentence structure are indeed much better than modern twaddle-y entertainment reads.) I'm fine with my dc reading them on their own (I read plenty of shallow, formulaic entertainment reads myself), but I put a strict limit on how much I would read out loud to them - there are just so many better books out there. I haven't yet reread my beloved Trixie Beldens since college to see if they hold up any better, but dd9 reads them.

[Tanaqui]

I've never heard anyone define twaddle as meaning ghostwritten books.

 

Perhaps not, but when they give example that's pretty much what they mean.

 

Then there's utter trash, something that just wastes brain energy and has no redemptive value, no reason to be read at all.

 

Then you've pretty much said there is no such thing as "twaddle". Or that everything is "twaddle", depending on your opinion of literature, I suppose. I've never yet found a book, no matter how simplistic, that had NO redemptive value for the intended audience. Not even "Good Night, Dora!" or "Goosebumps #52: Beware the Snowman!" or "Sixteen and Dying". Perhaps Twilight or 50 Shade of Grey, but I've never read those books and can't reasonably pass judgment on them.

 

I was reading at a college level by the fourth grade. I know, because I read a copy of my IEP at one point.

 

When I was in the eighth grade, my English teacher stopped me and criticized my choice of reading material (Sixth Grade Secrets, as it happens). She thought it was "too easy" for me and asked "couldn't I do better". I was reading in her class because I habitually finished my work early, and as I said, I already read on a college level and had done so for at least four years, so I don't know what all else the lady wanted.

 

(You know, I really disliked that teacher. This was the same one who got snotty when she asked us why Caesar died and I replied that it was his destiny, he ignored the mad soothsayer and all the omens and went about on the Ides of March. We then got to listen to a 5 minute lecture on his pride. That woman had no sense of humor, and I maintain that my answer was also correct.)

 

But anyway, after years of dwelling on this question and its implied attempt to shame me, which she had no right to do, I eventually worked out what was so wrong about it.

 

Nobody will ever accuse Sixth Grade Secrets of being great literature, nor Goosebumps, nor Sweet Valley Twins, nor the Baby-Sitters Club books. And I certainly didn't read just those books! But I read an awful lot of them, over and over again, and do you know why? Because having a simple, predictable structure with characters that were the same from book to book (for the series books) and never changed (well, Goosebumps superficially changed their names and physical descriptions and also the awful thing about to happen to them by the final page, but they were always the same under the skin) gave me a lot of room to learn about one area I was greatly lacking in - social situations. I learned more from those than I did from Julius Caesar that year, though it's clear which is the better work of literature. (At least, I assume we all agree on this subject!)

 

And when your four year old wants to read Berenstain Bears and the Tedious Moral for the umpteenth time, they're learning about more than the aesop at the end. You might not see what they're learning, because you're not the audience, but they're learning something. That's why they want to read it over and over again! And when your eight year old wants to read Pony Pals or whatever it is that's in print for eight year olds, no matter how trivial you think it is, she's learning something.

 

Nancy Drew is not great literature, and it's not all that well-written or high quality. But it doesn't have to be. That's a completely unreasonable expectation for a series that was churned out at four a year in its prime.

[SarahW]

To play devil's advocate for a minute... I did not move on to quality literature until I started homeschooling. My mom still think Nancy Drew books are the best ever. I know a couple intelligent people (my mom is one of them) who cannot sit down and read a book like Pride and Prejudice. They never made that leap on their own.

 

But the way to help kids discover quality literature is by doing what others are suggesting, and which it sounds like you already are doing. Keep assigning books that push her reading level - books like Island of the Blue Dolphins, not Shakespeare, lol. Read aloud to expose her to books above her reading level. Then let her read whatever the heck she wants in her free time. I bet the vast majority of us voracious readers love to dive into fluff from time to time.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I read a lot of "twaddle" in my free time as a kid. Sweet Valley kids, teens, high etc. I happened to get some lit in there by accident, The Secret Garden happened to be shelved on the same carousel as the Sweet Valley books at my library (hooray for alphabetization). I loved The Secret Garden, but no one helped me find The Little Princess. So I just read more twaddle, those serializations have a new one every month, so you never run out.

 

I have an aunt who is a "reader." She started being a reader when her dad bought her a Nancy Drew book (one of the originals, lol). She now reads a lot of Grisham and Roberts. It's not terrible or anything, but no, she never reads anything more complicated, even something modern like O'Conner.

 

So yes, let her read what she wants, but continue to deliberately develop her reading skills. 

 

I have the opposite problem, my 9yo boy only reads what I assign and when I tell him (he just finished The Horse and His Boy). I'm trying to get him hooked on a bit of fluff for his free time. 

[Squawky Acres]

Oh, sorry.  To clarify:  DH did not say Island of the Blue Dolphins is garbage.  He was just talking about DD8's free reading choices (currently Nancy Drew and Trixie Belden).  He understands that Island is a classic work of children's literature.

 

I think these mysteries are just fine, but would not assign them for school reading.  In her school reading, I am trying to move away from super-exciting, dramatic, cliff-hanger ending types of books, to help her see the beauty in other genres (although, of course, she can read these books during her free time), although she HATED a recent Sonlight pick (Grandma's Attic), and complained that nothing *happened.*  She has been very particular about the books I assign, as she wants them to be about "exciting adventures," preferably "with a girl having the adventures."  I recently posted a thread on this forum asking about something like My Side of the Mountain with a female heroine, and got some excellent suggestions that we are working through right now.

 

I do need to start approaching Shakespeare with the children, even after our Romeo and Juliet disaster (and DH's Julius Caesar flop).  R&J was probably not the best one to start with, but I think it came first in Beautiful Stories from Shakespeare.

[Hilltopmom]

The homeschooled children I know who hate to read, are the ones whose parents only let them read from a list of "mom pre- read approved classics" list & are not allowed to read what they want for pleasure.

So- they don't read for pleasure, ever. Just the assigned boring school list, slowly & sadly.

[PeterPan]

I read the Sweet Valley High books when I was young, lots of Nancy Drew, smut, etc.  I really think a lot of this boils down to access and nurturing.  At the time I was in a place where no one was steering me into good things.  A lot of us probably didn't have teachers saying here's a 9th grade level book on Hatshepsut when we were in 2nd or 3rd grade, but I made sure *my* dd had access to a variety of materials like that.  I remember being told to stick to a certain shelf in the library, that kids our age were ONLY ALLOWED TO READ from that one shelf!  

 

Probably that happened to a lot of us.  And, frankly, I lived in a lot of poor areas, where the contents of the library were scary.  I ended up reading a lot of books on the making of horror films (because for some reason the library had a LOT of them, hehe) and then moving over to smut, which tragically was the other thing they had a lot of.

 

We're doing better with our kids.  It is so easy now to access a wide variety of materials and to bring them into our home.  And I guess it is true that many people aren't actually bringing a wide variety of books into their home.  They're literally JUST bringing in Nancy Drew or JUST bringing in the Sonlight books.  The books might be fine, but bring in more!  And when you do that, giving them access to all kinds of literature and giving them enough time to read, it works out.  But yes, I could totally agree that if Nancy Drew (or even the SL books) were the ONLY thing in the house, I'd encourage them toward more variety, more choices.

 

 

Oh, sorry.  To clarify:  DH did not say Island of the Blue Dolphins is garbage.  He was just talking about DD8's free reading choices (currently Nancy Drew and Trixie Belden).  He understands that Island is a classic work of children's literature.

 

I think these mysteries are just fine, but would not assign them for school reading.  In her school reading, I am trying to move away from super-exciting, dramatic, cliff-hanger ending types of books, to help her see the beauty in other genres (although, of course, she can read these books during her free time), although she HATED a recent Sonlight pick (Grandma's Attic), and complained that nothing *happened.*  She has been very particular about the books I assign, as she wants them to be about "exciting adventures," preferably "with a girl having the adventures."  I recently posted a thread on this forum asking about something like My Side of the Mountain with a female heroine, and got some excellent suggestions that we are working through right now.

 

I do need to start approaching Shakespeare with the children, even after our Romeo and Juliet disaster (and DH's Julius Caesar flop).  R&J was probably not the best one to start with, but I think it came first in Beautiful Stories from Shakespeare.

 

What's her reading level?  Like if you just gave her the McCall/Crabbs or WJIII or something to check her actual reading level, where is she?  That's FABULOUS that she has such strong preferences on what she wants!!  My guess is that she is reading multiple grade levels ahead.  My dd was typically 4-5.  Actually, that's not true.  Sometimes it was even more. I just remember doing the McCall Crabbs (we hadn't done any standardized testing yet) and going WOW, those old sure are inaccurate!  LOL  Then we did the Woodcock Johnson III (WJIII), which gives back actual grade levels, and she literally was that high!

 

So I'm piecing together those two thoughts, and I'm thinking her *preferences* she's giving are because she's quite bright.  I think what you need to do is EXPAND HER ACCESS.  Don't give her just one grade level or age range of materials.  When my dd was that age range, I would give her a pile of books on a topic and have the range from say 2nd grade all the way up through 9th grade or adult.  You really NEVER KNOW what they will take to if you give them the chance!  And they don't have to read at that stretch level all the time, but they *will* stretch to read things that are fascinating.

 

What I usually did for book lists was to use the VP catalog, WTM, SL, and TruthQuest History.  I doubt people talk about TQ much anymore, but it was SUCH a boon for me, with books for every topic across age levels.  Some of her favorite, favorite books, the ones she read over and over, came from there.

 

Ok, I'll toss out something for you.  What does she re-read?  To me, that was more telling.  Like, I don't care if my kid reads Nancy Drew.  But if she's RE-READING them, 3 and 5 times over, because they're her favorite books in the whole wide world, well then it's time for more access.  Some SL books became favorites like that for my dd (Follow My Leader, for instance), but most did not.  That Hatshepsut book was particularly a favorite of hers.  It has a strong woman as the central character.  You could see if your dd likes it.   :D  His Majesty, Queen Hatsheput

 

Has she read this series yet?  It used to be in the VP catalog, don't know if it still is.  Usually if I bumped up the grade level a grade, the VP catalog lists could work for my dd.  So go look at their 4th grade lit and see if anything clicks.  

Raiders from the Sea (Viking Quest Series)

 

Is she reading LotR yet?  The Fellowship of the Ring: Being the First Part of The Lord of the Rings  This version has a slightly larger font that works well for kids.  She could read the Hobbit first.  There are a couple really AMAZING illustrated versions.  The Hobbit; or, There and Back Again

 

For the Shakespeare, have you seen the BBC cartoons?  They're on youtube.  Definitely start with comedies, not tragedies.   ;)  Midsummer Night's Dream, Merchant of Venice, that kind of thing.  

 

I think it's reasonable to say wow, I didn't realize her reading level was so high, I'm going to give her some more variety and more access, kwim?  She's young enough that she's reading what you bring her way.  My dd is 16, so she goes online and keeps up with the new books coming out and finds her own things.  But an 8 yo, she's just reading what you've brought her way.  So more variety, absolutely that would be good.  And that's a way to say yes, dh, I took your concerns seriously.  

 

Also talk with the children's librarian at your public library.  They should have a whole section of interesting young adult fiction. For us some was good and some was stuff we skipped, but still it's a resource.

Edited January 14, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[ktgrok]

Ok, setting aside that I write the oh so dreaded romance novels....I'm honestly just seething here that he is disparaging Trixie Belden books!!!!! I credit my lifelong love of reading with Trixie Belden books. And the moral values in them are wonderful! So much about helping family, being useful, honor, honesty, hard work, etc etc! AND I learned a ton...I learned about blind cave fish in the book where she visits the Ozarks. Heck, I learned what the Ozarks are, lol. I swear I'd have never heard of them if not for that book. I also learned about Dia De Los Muertos and what mole is when she went to Arizona. No offense, but anyone who disparages Trixie Belden needs...well  lets say a stern talking too. At best. For a  long time. 

 

I'm actually getting my blood pressure up over this, lol. And Island of the Blue Dolphins? Who can criticize that? 

 

As for fluff....everyone has ways they unwind and relax and release stress. I'd say curling up with a well written novel of any time, romance/suspense/whatever is a much better way than drinking or gambling or shopping..many of the things other people do for stress relief. 

 

Humph. 

[PeterPan]

You tell 'em, sister!  :D

[Sahamamama]

:mellow: Wow. I think your bigger problem is not what your daughter is reading, but what your husband thinks about it. I would talk him down, hard and fast, before your daughter picks up on this. My two cents. Someone needs a reality check.

 

FWIW, I have three daughters (9, 9, and nearly 11), and they read anything and everything. The one exception is that I never let them read Junie B. Jones. Just no. IMO, that is true garbage. But other than that, they read it all, and this is the best way to develop readers who love to read.

 

If, after a strong conversation, your husband still wants "Shakespeare at Eight" or "Greek Myths at Eight," then you could work through these resources:

 

https://peacehillpress.com/p/greek-myths-audio-cd/

 

https://peacehillpress.com/p/heroes-in-mythology-audio-cd/

 

https://peacehillpress.com/p/she-he-adventures-in-mythology-audio-cd/

 

https://peacehillpress.com/p/shakespeare-for-children/

 

Honestly, though, I'd be more inclined to purchase Uncle Wiggly or Tell Me a Story for an eight year old!

Edited January 14, 2016 by Sahamamama

[ktgrok]

Oh, since your daughter and I have the same reading tastes....has she read Anne of Green Gables? That has a feisty female character, but is more of a "classic" children's book. And my absolute favorite book of all time. 

 

Oh, and my other favorite book of all time is Jane Eyre. 

 

But mostly I read lots of romantic suspense, because I can read "fluff" quickly and pick it up and put it down while also doing other things. Hard to do that with more complicated literature. That I like to be able to ponder slowly.

[Ellie]

I'm glad so many others have already said this, because I didn't want to feel like a jerk.

 

But your dd is *only eight years old.* Of course she's going to read things which are not the quality of Shakespeare. Because she's only eight years old. Although I appreciate Mr. Squawky Acres' concerns, he's really out of touch with what eight-year-old children read. And although I also appreciate the fact that you want to include him and all that, the truth is that sometimes one parent is right and the other is wrong, and the one who is right needs to say so, and the one who is wrong needs to trust the one who is right.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Coming back to say that it's the word "garbage" that pushes the biggest button for me.  It's such a dismissive and derogatory term.  It is also a bit of a controlling term in that it doesn't allow for people to have different tastes without labeling those tastes as worthless. 

[FriedClams]

I'm old. My kids are older (8th / 9th grade). Both are avid readers.

 

I agree with others who have sighted "unrealistic expectations". Totally. For 8.

 

However, I think reading is a lot like food. I think what you're raised on - what you're exposed to - definitely shapes your "comfort zone". When my kids were little we definitely skipped a TON of "twaddle". I screened the library bag. No books with TV characters, no spin off books (that weren't books to begin with), no rude attitudes or potty humor. None. We read through the 1000 Great Books lists, the Read Aloud Handbook recommendations, and many, many more. We read a ton. I read aloud. We did books in the car. We did audio books.

 

As the kids got older, I loosened the reigns but we still waiting for many of the "popular" books. We've read and LOVE Harry Potter - but we did it when the kids were older. They loved it, and they "got" many of the deeper references (we discussed yesterday the Remus Lupin connection with the tale of Remus and Romulus - not brain surgery - but they see books in layers now). Mt 14 year old loves Shakespeare, and Dickens (and laughs out loud while reading it). My 13 year old son TEARS through his SL Core 100 books and is many books ahead.

 

SO, I partially agree with your husband. Keep the junk out. Be ruthless. BUT, provide tons of great books (and honestly, your list looks a ton like what ours would have at that age). And, I found limiting screen media helped my kids focus on books.

[vonfirmath]

I actually just recently started Island of the Blue Dolphins as a read-aloud to my 4th graders. The language is more difficult and the sentences more complex than many of today's books. I think it's a great book, especially if she's able to read and comprehend. I don't consider it fluff at all. Sounds like you're doing a good job of providing the high-quality reading. :)

 

I read Island of the Blue Dolphins when I was in the 4th grade! (Read as a class) Its one book I remember very clearly because I've loved it ever since.

 

[Squawky Acres]

Thank you.  I like the PHP resources suggested, and will order the Shakespeare one.

 

Yes, Anne of Green Gables is on our list.  I love it too.  I really have no idea what DD8's "reading level" is, but it seems that she can read at a good level for her grade, and probably a few years beyond.  She finished phonics instruction a few years ago, and seems to be able to read whatever I give her, and many more things that she picks up herself.  I'm not sure about the Hobbit.  That may be a bit challenging (or maybe it looks daunting because my copy has really tiny print).  That illustrated, larger text version might be a better option for her.

 

And we do limit screen time, so books are the entertainment in our house.  We can watch programs on the computers or tablets (or on a DVD unit we have), but do not have an actual TV.

 

And yes, I have told DH that his expectations are unrealistic -- even for a very bright and advanced student.  At no point was I planning to actually hand DD8 the Complete Works of Shakespeare!  Please do not worry that I am thinking DH is correct, or that I plan to implement his suggested reading list.  I was just asking around for anecdotes about other developing readers, and hoping to find a study that corroborated what I know to be true so that I could show him a research paper or article.

[cintinative]

Didn't read all prior posts so my apologies if this is repetitive.

 

I agree that if you assign certain reading at her level or to challenge her level from good quality books then she should be able to, within reason, choose her own free reading books in addition to those.  Like others said, you can feel free as the parent to screen for content.  

 

I can sort of sympathize with what your dh is saying from my own experience, but I think he is hitting the trigger a bit young.  I do try to give my kids exposure to better books at their ages because I don't feel my reading level was challenged growing up, and when I got to be a teenager I was allowed to read whatever I wanted.  Unfortunately this meant I read some really bad stuff content wise (V.C. Andrews type stuff) that has honestly haunted me since. So there is an age at which you can say--yes, that is popular, but no, you are not going to read it.  I am just questioning the application of it now. As a parent I do intend to challenge my kids reading as they get older, but Shakespeare at eight is hard to understand.  Even if she was extremely gifted and could understand it, some Shakespeare content will not be appropriate for an eight year old for some time.  

 

I agree on the suggestion of book lists. Other than the WTM recommendations, Center for Lit and CAP and Memoria Press all have recommended reading lists.  Also Ambleside has exhaustive lists.  If I was looking for a place to start I would use those.  If you want, I can send you the spreadsheet I have going that has all these recommendations grouped by grade level.  Maybe that will help your DH to see the progression of things.

[Critterfixer]

 

And yes, I have told DH that his expectations are unrealistic -- even for a very bright and advanced student.  At no point was I planning to actually hand DD8 the Complete Works of Shakespeare!  Please do not worry that I am thinking DH is correct, or that I plan to implement his suggested reading list.  I was just asking around for anecdotes about other developing readers, and hoping to find a study that corroborated what I know to be true so that I could show him a research paper or article.

 

The problem to me seems to be that he doesn't think his expectations are unrealistic. To me, the best thing would be to show him the reading level of the books you are reading. Typically, and somebody should correct me if I'm wrong, you build fluency in reading by reading books just below the reader's level. You build word attack skills by reading slightly above level. Comprehension, IMO, should be at or below the reading level. 

 

 

[cintinative]

In case you want it, this is a spreadsheet i put together that lists the recommendations of:  Providence Extension Program, Mars Hill Academy, Notgrass, Memoria Press, Center for Lit, CAP, IEW, and Ambleside. Some WTM board recommendations are thrown in but I was pretty inconsistent with that.  I have columns and color coding for the ones we own and/or have read--sorry for the mess but you can certainly delete out whatever if you want to use.   It is sorted by grade level 1-3, 3-5, 5-7, etc.  For some books I have the lexile, grade level equivalent and letter rating in the columns to the right.  

 

ETA: having trouble with google drive uploading the wrong file.  Stay tuned. 

 

okay, sorry, too many sheets in that other one. Revised link.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0oUXygCNeMlWGQyTmdKbkRubzQ/view?usp=sharing

 

Edited January 15, 2016 by cintinative

[kalusignan]

Am I the only one who read all this and then had to look up Trixie Belden? .... and then put the first book on hold at the library?  :rofl:

 

Also, I think you're doing a great job! I agree that the best way to proceed is to show your dh the reading level of the books she is reading for school (ex. Island of the Blue Dolphins).

 

My dd8's 'fun' reading includes the Ramona Quimby books (over and over) and the Boxcar Children.

 

BTW, we LOVED In Grandma's Attic.  :lol:

[Squawky Acres]

The problem to me seems to be that he doesn't think his expectations are unrealistic. To me, the best thing would be to show him the reading level of the books you are reading. Typically, and somebody should correct me if I'm wrong, you build fluency in reading by reading books just below the reader's level. You build word attack skills by reading slightly above level. Comprehension, IMO, should be at or below the reading level. 

 

Yes, that's right.  I can tell him his expectations are unrealistic, and just go ahead and do what I was planning on anyway --- and that is one solution.  As the primary educator, I can do that.  But it would be much better for him to understand and be on board with what I am doing.

[Squawky Acres]

 

 

BTW, we LOVED In Grandma's Attic.  :lol:

 

I'm not sure why she disliked it, except that it didn't have enough suspense and adventure for her.  That is why I am working to broaden her interests, as she would read only mysteries and adventures if left on her own.

 

[Critterfixer]

That's why I think you should show him the level that your daughter is reading at. Then you can show him books that are at to slightly above that level, and show him where Shakespeare ranks. Then he can both see the unreasonable expectations he has, and can be proud of what his daughter is reading.

[Guest]

I'm not sure if this will help or not, but here goes:

 

I spent more money on those darned fool Babysitter's Club books than I did on my car in the '90s. It turned out to be the best investment I ever made. dd26 grew up to be an investigative journalist.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Guest

[kalusignan]

I'm not sure why she disliked it, except that it didn't have enough suspense and adventure for her.  That is why I am working to broaden her interests, as she would read only mysteries and adventures if left on her own.

 

Regarding In Grandmas Attic:

 

My dd is fascinated with stories from the past (literally asking everybody to tell her stories from their childhood).

 

It also helped that she buddy read most of this with her grandma, which prompted a lot of stories. :)

[Tanaqui]

I spent more money on those darned fool Babysitter's Club books than I did on my car in the '90s. It turned out to be the best investment I ever made. dd26 grew up to be an investigative journalist.

 

Those books were like crack.

 

You can get just about all of them right now for $80 on eBay. You'd probably do better to spend that money on Nancy Drew, though - or Shakespeare!

[mamiof5]

Hmmmph. Another playing devil's advocate here. I tried to first just mention the Shakespeare groupon thing, but I keep coming and reading most of the responses, and I have to admit I am a little appaled at the reaction towards the dad. Granted, he could have chosen a better word than "garbage". Some guys are really straight to the point, don't sugarcoat it. If he was my dh I'd probably, KINDLY, let him know I didn't appreciate his choice of words, but that's it?? Maybe he was just trying to give an example, by Shakespeare he meant more classics? I don't know? I'd just address it kindly though, not harshly and throwing him under the bus as I am getting the feeling from many of the responses. Yes, she's 8, but he's her dad and wanted to give some input in her reading choices. Yes, he didn't chose the most loving way...but we all make mistakes. If I was the OP I'd just try to address it very lovingly, let him know (and give some of the examples) of how I feel I am encouraging good reads, would also show him the groupon deal or any other Shakespeare for kids options and see if he'd like to get those? Just my 2 cents. Just don't agree in the "put him on his place"/"he needs a reality check" approach. I feel we all need a reality check more often than not, and it goes better when approached lovingly.

ETA: bummer she didn't care for grandma's attics! One of our favorites :)

Edited January 14, 2016 by mamiof5

[Ellie]

Yes, that's right.  I can tell him his expectations are unrealistic, and just go ahead and do what I was planning on anyway --- and that is one solution.  As the primary educator, I can do that.  But it would be much better for him to understand and be on board with what I am doing.

 

it might be a long time before he's on board. As in when your dd is 21 and reading War and Peace for enjoyment.

[wintermom]

Yes, that's right.  I can tell him his expectations are unrealistic, and just go ahead and do what I was planning on anyway --- and that is one solution.  As the primary educator, I can do that.  But it would be much better for him to understand and be on board with what I am doing.

 

Your dh sounds like an intelligent man and a father who is quite hands-on with much of the learning/homeschooling in your family. I think you could guide him to do some research on his own into children development and appropriate skills for various ages of children. It will be very useful for him, and it will eliminate the you vs him dilemma.  You are a team in parenting and teaching your children. It shouldn't have to fall completely on your shoulders to convince him of what is developmentally appropriate to introduce to the dc.

Edited January 14, 2016 by wintermom

[Squawky Acres]

It is difficult to get a full picture of a DH's character just from one side of one disagreement about homeschooling . . . so thank you to those of you writing in support of DH!  I didn't want to waste time telling you about all of his wonderful qualities, and how, for example, he will install built-in closet shelves and bookshelves whenever I mention I could use some (because I didn't want to make y'all jealous).  But yes, he is otherwise a very supportive and loving husband and father who just happens to have high expectations and a blunt way of expressing himself.  Apparently his bluntness works out just fine for him in the business world.  

 

I do think showing him a chart of books listed by grade level would be very helpful.  It looks like DD8 is reading around a 6th grade level.  He also mentioned that she should read Call of the Wild, which still seems to be a bit above her level.  I might pre-read some of that to see if I am remembering it correctly, but that is a more reasonable option.  I think he was just vaguely remembering reading Shakespeare in high school, and then thinking that DD8 is very bright and advanced, and should be able to read it earlier.  It was not a well-researched suggestion.

 

Cintinative, thank you for the fabulous book list!

 

Ahhh, Baby-sitter's Club . . . how I loved you . . .  Maybe I will go dig up some of those for DD8 as well.

[FriedClams]

It is difficult to get a full picture of a DH's character just from one side of one disagreement about homeschooling . . . so thank you to those of you writing in support of DH! I didn't want to waste time telling you about all of his wonderful qualities, and how, for example, he will install built-in closet shelves and bookshelves whenever I mention I could use some (because I didn't want to make y'all jealous). But yes, he is otherwise a very supportive and loving husband and father who just happens to have high expectations and a blunt way of expressing himself. Apparently his bluntness works out just fine for him in the business world.

 

I do think showing him a chart of books listed by grade level would be very helpful. It looks like DD8 is reading around a 6th grade level. He also mentioned that she should read Call of the Wild, which still seems to be a bit above her level. I might pre-read some of that to see if I am remembering it correctly, but that is a more reasonable option. I think he was just vaguely remembering reading Shakespeare in high school, and then thinking that DD8 is very bright and advanced, and should be able to read it earlier. It was not a well-researched suggestion.

 

Cintinative, thank you for the fabulous book list!

 

Ahhh, Baby-sitter's Club . . . how I loved you . . . Maybe I will go dig up some of those for DD8 as well.

I had early reading kids. They {could} read years ahead of their age. We purposefully chose not to let them free on content above what was age appropriate. There are SO MANY wonderful, well written, language-rich books for yourger kids. Yes, some (many) of them are old. But please don't think that a good reader, reading age appropriate content is a fail. And please, please don't push content on a young kid just because they "can" read it (or because it's easy to brag about what our kids are reading... I say it because I've been there...). I know others will debate this and widly disagree, but for young precocious readers there really are more wonderful books than they will ever be able to read without moving on to content that is above them. And there are TONS and TONS of beautifully written, age appropriate picture books available - and missing them would be such a tragedy. Yes, read chapter books. Yes, challenge a kid. But not every book needs to be a challenge, and not every beautifully written, wonderful book is a chapter book. Please, don't miss the wonder of this age by pushing content. (I haven't read everything here - but Ambleside Online has great lists, too.)

[stutterfish]

"He also mentioned that she should read Call of the Wild, which still seems to be a bit above her level"

 

I read Call of the Wild as a pre-teen. I tried it as a read-aloud to my kids a few years ago and was quite shocked to find it really quite brutal...and detailed in that brutality. My kids aren't particularly sensitive, but I found it uncomfortable reading as an adult, so it might not be age-appropriate for an 8 year-old.

[ktgrok]

I'm glad so many others have already said this, because I didn't want to feel like a jerk.

 

But your dd is *only eight years old.* Of course she's going to read things which are not the quality of Shakespeare. Because she's only eight years old. Although I appreciate Mr. Squawky Acres' concerns, he's really out of touch with what eight-year-old children read. And although I also appreciate the fact that you want to include him and all that, the truth is that sometimes one parent is right and the other is wrong, and the one who is right needs to say so, and the one who is wrong needs to trust the one who is right.

 

Ellie, I truly do love you. 

 

I have a similar approach to things. I hear women say things like, "my husband won't let me use a midwife/have homebirth/etc" and I just want to shout, "he isn't the boss of you!"  

 

But anyway....I'm still miffed about anyone disparaging Trixie Belden. And kind of want to hang out with your daughter....I've never known anyone that loved Trixie like I did. I read the whole series straight through 3 times in a row in third grade :)

[8circles]

It's about respecting the job.

This is it for me. Discussion, suggestions, etc. All more than fine, expected, appreciated. This doesn't feel like that.