#IStandWithAhmed

[SKL]

Let's assume the English teacher thought it was a bomb. Taking it and shoving it in a desk drawer? Wrong response. Continuing to hold classes in the room with the potential bomb? Wrong response. Nothing she did indicates that she thought the device was potentially harmful. She had a problem with Ahmed, not his clock.

 

I'm not talking about the English teacher.  She showed it to someone.  Someone got scared enough to call the police.  Or maybe they have some sort of zero tolerance policy and they decided they had to call the cops, I don't know.

 

[redsquirrel]

I thought he opened it in order to turn off the alarm, in the middle of English class.  So the teacher and students did see the innards.  And no, that does not look like a clock to most people.

 

 

And did nothing about it. No bomb squad, nothing to protect the children from a "bomb".  Nothing. 

How do her actions show that she really thought thought it was a bomb? What did she do to protect herself or the children in her care?

 

She knew it wasn't a bomb. She might not have known it was a clock, but she knew she wasn't in any danger.

[SKL]

But it does in fact look a whole lot like clock innards.

 

It looks like an electronic something.  So does a modern time bomb.  I don't expect school personnel to know the difference at sight.

 

I think it is likely the students who saw it spread a rumor around and the school staff had to do something.  Because they knew parents were going to start calling about this bomb their kid says was at school.  So I could understand investigating.  I still don't like the handcuffs / arrest part of it, unless there is more to the story.

 

[SKL]

And did nothing about it. No bomb squad, nothing to protect the children from a "bomb".  Nothing. 

How do her actions show that she really thought thought it was a bomb? What did she do to protect herself or the children in her care?

 

She knew it wasn't a bomb. She might not have known it was a clock, but she knew she wasn't in any danger.

 

Again, it sounds like the English teacher was not terribly spooked, but that does not mean none of the kids were, and it doesn't mean that whoever she showed it to later wasn't.

 

I'm sure most actual bomb holders don't carry around stuff that screams I AM A BOMB!  That would kind of defeat the purpose.

 

[Butter]

You aren't supposed to bring your fun stuff to school unless it's for show-and-tell.

 

Really?  I've known many, many teachers that were very happy for kids to bring stuff they were proud of to show them.  They didn't get in trouble.  They got praise.  And, yes, this includes post-9/11.

[ktgrok]

 

I'm sure most actual bomb holders don't carry around stuff that screams I AM A BOMB!  That would kind of defeat the purpose.

 

 

Yeah, but they probably don't take said bomb and show it to their first period engineering teacher. 

[DragonFaerie]

Again, it sounds like the English teacher was not terribly spooked, but that does not mean none of the kids were, and it doesn't mean that whoever she showed it to later wasn't.

 

I'm sure most actual bomb holders don't carry around stuff that screams I AM A BOMB!  That would kind of defeat the purpose.

 

 

I wonder how many kids who build bombs proudly show them off to their teachers.

[Murphy101]

I thought he opened it in order to turn off the alarm, in the middle of English class. So the teacher and students did see the innards. And no, that does not look like a clock to most people.

 

Omg

 

These arguments are enough to make a saint kick a puppy and get drunk.

 

This is what a box digital clock looks like for anyone who has never seen one before. It's similiar to his, only his was in a tin pencil case instead of molded plastic. You can google for "digital clock" and all kinds of rectangular pencil case sized box shaped devices that tell time are easily viewable. You can also Google for kids ones and see some in all kinds of shapes. And absolutely no person with eyes in front of their brains is going to be walking through a house, or a store, or a school and see one and think, "AACK! Help! Electric wired wizardry!!! Hez gonna kills us all!"

 

Unless the room has a dark skinned teen in it. Then they will put it in their desk drawer since it does look like it's going to go boom real soon and tell the principal hours later, who will then call the police and they will tag team threaten the kid to sign that it was a bomb or a bomb hoax without parental or legal representation.

 

http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/1121872579/Jumbo-font-b-Digital-b-font-Wall-font-b-Clock-b-font-font-b-Kids-b.jpg

[kahlanne]

I have a question that I am sure someone can clear up. The alarm went off in English class which is how the teacher became aware of the clock yet many have stated that it needed to be plugged in. If that was so, why didn't the teacher notice a cord before the alarm? How did the alarm go off it it ran off electricity only? Just curious.

[unsinkable]

I have a question that I am sure someone can clear up. The alarm went off in English class which is how the teacher became aware of the clock yet many have stated that it needed to be plugged in. If that was so, why didn't the teacher notice a cord before the alarm? How did the alarm go off it it ran off electricity only? Just curious.

It had a battery, too.

 

It looks like he just took apart a clock and shoved it in a mini-case. I've had plug-in clocks with battery back ups.

[Butter]

I have a question that I am sure someone can clear up. The alarm went off in English class which is how the teacher became aware of the clock yet many have stated that it needed to be plugged in. If that was so, why didn't the teacher notice a cord before the alarm? How did the alarm go off it it ran off electricity only? Just curious.

 

He made it to plug in with battery back-up in case of power outage.

[Word Nerd]

I wonder how many kids who build bombs proudly show them off to their teachers.

 

And I wonder how many kids who want to commit bomb hoaxes repeatedly insist they're carrying a clock.

[unsinkable]

This is from the Dallas news article:

 

"He showed it to his engineering teacher first thing Monday morning and didn’t get quite the reaction he’d hoped for.

 

“He was like, ‘That’s really nice,’†Ahmed said. “‘I would advise you not to show any other teachers.’â€

 

He kept the clock inside his school bag in English class, but the teacher complained when the alarm beeped in the middle of a lesson. Ahmed brought his invention up to show her afterward.

 

“She was like, it looks like a bomb,†he said.

 

“I told her, ‘It doesn’t look like a bomb to me.’â€

 

The teacher kept the clock. When the principal and a police officer pulled Ahmed out of sixth period, he suspected he wouldn’t get it back."

 

XXXXX

 

Is there another article that specifies how the clock got from the English teacher to the the admins?

 

And I didn't realize the school district will not release their version of what happened without written permission from the family.

[Reflections]

Sorry, late for the party... but upthread someone was posting about arrest vs charged and whether or not kids could be interrogated by police without their parents presence and I had something to add....  

 

Just being arrested gives this kid a "record" that will follow him.  Even if he is never charged, even if it happened when he was a minor, even if they have it expunged, it will ALWAYS be there.  Local law enforcement, FBI, Homeland... all will see it.  It can make it difficult for him to do things like get a passport or get a security clearance.  Even with all this publicity, very few will remember this 5 years from now when he is 21 and looking for work.  Assuming he's not a tech billionaire by then.

 

And, why yes, yes they can interrogate your minor child in school without the parent or a lawyer being present... don't believe me, google it.... or check out my handy-dandy google search...https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=can+police+question+a+minor+at+school+without+a+parent&start=10

[Jean in Newcastle]

Well, despite the naysayers, I still stand with Ahmed.  

[jeninok]

Here is a helpful video, with several similar suggestions below it that show how the magic wiring boxes are actually assembled.

[redsquirrel]

And I wonder how many kids who want to commit bomb hoaxes repeatedly insist they're carrying a clock.

 

But he wasn't, and he didn't.  We know what his intention was because he declared it to his engineering teacher. 

 

Again, I don't fault the school for following up to some extent. I think the english teacher believed him because she didn't follow up in any way. And clearly the admin thought he didn't have a bomb, but wanted to perpetrate a bomb hoax.  But he kept repeating the same story under interrogation and asking for his parents. What evidence does the school or the police have that he committed any offense.  

 

And here is the real problem for the school:

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/16/police-violated-ahmed-mohamed-s-civil-rights-by-keeping-away-his-parents.html

 

For a long time I was an advocate for kids in the court system.  Kids who were victims of crimes, I should mention.  Not uncommonly, we got cases when the accused perpetrator was also a minor, or a minor under suspicion for taking part in some way. This was always such a big deal with law enforcement and the DA's office. The rules about interviewing minors who are suspected of wrongdoing are a big deal.  They know there are specific rules that must be followed and they must be extra careful not to mess it up. Because there is a presumption of innocence, and even the most hard nosed judge looks unfavorably upon an innocent child's civil rights being trampled upon. How the school allowed him to be interviewed on school property, the fact that they ignored his requests for his parents....big deal.  Like losing your job and pension big deal. Someone's head should roll for this one.  Look, you want to catch a bad guy? Great! But do the damn work and do it right or the bad guy gets away. 

 

Yet another example of how if this had been a bomb in a school, everyone who was supposed to keep our children safe just totally screwed up. If this kid had been a bomber, or practicing with a hoax bomb as a warm up to a real bomb, and they rolled over his civil rights like that....he gets a free pass for the next time. 

 

There is a word for this type of situation that I learned from the cops I worked with. I'm not going to use it here, but it begins with the word 'cluster'.  Although, because I loved "the thick of it" I will just call it an omnishambles

[Wheres Toto]

Isn't the point of a hoax bomb that it causes fear?  Like people are told it's a bomb (even though it isn't) in order to scare them and cause a fuss?  How can it be a hoax bomb if there is not attempt at fear or intimidation?

 

[amsunshine]

 

And here is the real problem for the school:

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/16/police-violated-ahmed-mohamed-s-civil-rights-by-keeping-away-his-parents.html

 

Exactly right.  The police can interrogate the child at school as was pointed out upthread.  However, the game changes once the child asks for his parents, and this child did.

[idnib]

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/02/florida-student-arrested-science-experiment-blast/2130381/

 

http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/10/moron-school-employee-feared-kids-science-project-resembled-weapon-so-star-teacher-suspended/

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/609091/posts

 

The last example involved an actual bomb. The first two tell me there's no shortage of morons on the world.

 

But the thing is, that doesn't matter.  If the teacher truly thought it was a bomb, why wouldn't she pull the fire alarm, evacuate the school, and call the authorities?  Why in the world would any rational person put anything that might be a bomb into her desk and continue to conduct classes all day long?  She's either really, really dumb, or she did not really think it was a bomb.

 

You will never receive an answer to this legit question.

[SKL]

People are talking like each player in this case knew all the facts the whole time.  Like "well he showed his engineering teacher."  Yeah, but did the English teacher or any of the others involved know that?  "He didn't intend to scare anyone."  But did his classmates know his intent when the alarm went off and he opened the box in English class?

[Rivka]

When I was a kid, we used to get in trouble too when we brought inventions to school (without teacher permission).  Usually the teacher would break our stuff, throw it away, and then give us some additional consequence.  I don't remember the police ever being involved, but then our unauthorized inventions didn't tend to involve wires and timing devices.

 

I love how much scarier it sounds when you say that his invention "involves wires and timing devices."

 

I guaran-damn-tee you that every single classroom in the state of Texas has a "timing device" hanging on the wall.

 

How many things in the school have wires, would you suppose?

 

[justasque]

It happened to his sister, too.  

 

Eyman and I sit down in the hallway where she says the same thing happened to her as Ahmed.

“I got suspended from school for three days from this stupid same district, from this girl saying I wanted to blow up the school, something I had nothing to do with.â€

Eyman talks with the slightest lisp, almost imperceptible, but it becomes stronger as she gets emotional.

“I got suspended and I didn’t do anything about it and so when I heard about Ahmed, I was so mad because it happened to me and I didn’t get to stand up, so I’m making sure he’s standing up because it’s not right. So I’m not jealous, I’m kinda like—it’s like he’s standing for me.â€

[Rosie_0801]

Isn't the point of a hoax bomb that it causes fear?  Like people are told it's a bomb (even though it isn't) in order to scare them and cause a fuss?  How can it be a hoax bomb if there is not attempt at fear or intimidation?

 

Or even of getting out of English class.

[justasque]

Did you read where the engineering teacher told the boy not to let the other teachers see it?  Why would he say that if it was obviously (in appearance) just a clock?

 

Because he suspected that there were people who would see the clock and the brown boy named Ahmed Mohammed and immediately jump to the conclusion it was a "hoax bomb"?  Or maybe because the school is one where having even a cell phone gets you in trouble?  How many parents tell their kids to carry cell phones but not show them to the teachers?  I've seen that advice on these boards, more than once.

 

 

You aren't supposed to bring your fun stuff to school unless it's for show-and-tell.  I get that he brought it to proudly show his electronics teacher, but don't expect the English teacher to know that when the alarm goes off in the middle of her class.  It's not the end of the world, but yeah, teachers tend to be strict about people bringing distracting irrelevant stuff to class.  It didn't belong there, especially with the alarm set.

 

When I was a kid, we did that sort of thing to annoy teachers, and we took our punishment (which, granted, didn't involve cops in our case).  We didn't expect handcuffs, but we didn't expect praise either.

 

I think arrest was way over the top, assuming it's true that the cops knew this was not a bomb and the boy never implied that it might be.  But then, I think a lot of things people do nowadays (in the name of "safety") are way over the top.

 

In hindsight, the electronics teacher should have held onto the invention for the boy until the end of the school day.  He sensed it was likely to cause trouble.

 

This is not Kindergarten.  It's high school.  There's no show-and-tell, but it's not unreasonable for a kid who is in an engineering class to bring an electronics project to class.   In addition, there should be MULTIPLE people in the building - kids and adults both - who could look at this clock and have a pretty good idea of what it was and how it worked.

 

 

People are talking like each player in this case knew all the facts the whole time.  Like "well he showed his engineering teacher."  Yeah, but did the English teacher or any of the others involved know that?  "He didn't intend to scare anyone."  But did his classmates know his intent when the alarm went off and he opened the box in English class?

 

When a kid's cell phone goes off in class, do their classmates know the owner's intent?  Surely, the owner in neither case *intended* for the timing device (clock, phone-with-alarm-clock) to go off in class.  

 

...

When I was a kid, we used to get in trouble too when we brought inventions to school (without teacher permission).  Usually the teacher would break our stuff, throw it away, and then give us some additional consequence.  I don't remember the police ever being involved, but then our unauthorized inventions didn't tend to involve wires and timing devices.

 

Why didn't your inventions involve wires and timing devices?  Some of mine did. 

 

You know, sometimes scientists want or need to make something that hasn't been made before.  People make new materials, new machines, new devices.  They rig up rough test versions, they pull parts from discarded stuff, they put together a bit of this and a bit of that in a new way.  I've worked in a (military) research lab where scientists and engineers and student interns did this kind of tinkering and inventing every day.  We need people like this.  Smart people who are interested in making things that haven't been made before, or making things in a different way than before.   Ahmed is what those people look like when they are fourteen.  Educators should know that, recognize that, nurture that.  

 

IT IS THE INVENTIONS OF PEOPLE LIKE AHMED THAT KEEP US SAFE.  People like Ahmed work for the military and for military contractors.  They make airplanes, and helicopters, and bomb disposal robots.  They make fly-by-wire flight control systems, and stealth aircraft with low radar signatures, and planes that can land on aircraft carriers.  They make radar, and sonar, and MRI machines.  They make drones, which can carry out military missions with significantly less risk to soldier's lives.  People like Ahmed work in the medical field.  They make artificial limbs, and artificial hearts, and teeny cameras used to see what's going on inside people without having to make an enormous incision..  People like Ahmed work in information technology.  They make clocks, and computers, and the servers this forum runs on.  We need Ahmed to stay enthusiastic about his hobby, to enjoy school, and to trust that his teachers will give him a good high school education so he can go to college.  We need his passion and his knowledge.  Kids like Ahmed are essential to America's future.

[redsquirrel]

 

When I was a kid, we used to get in trouble too when we brought inventions to school (without teacher permission).  Usually the teacher would break our stuff, throw it away, and then give us some additional consequence.  I don't remember the police ever being involved, but then our unauthorized inventions didn't tend to involve wires and timing devices.

 

That's an interesting insight into your past, SKL.  I feel like I know you better now.

 

 

People are talking like each player in this case knew all the facts the whole time.  Like "well he showed his engineering teacher."  Yeah, but did the English teacher or any of the others involved know that?  "He didn't intend to scare anyone."  But did his classmates know his intent when the alarm went off and he opened the box in English class?

 

I would be willing to bet that when the police were talking to Ahmed he was asked to tell his story from the beginning. They would have had him talk through his entire day, why and how he made the clock, everyone he talked to, everyone he showed the clock to. The principal and the police knew that the engineering teacher knew and had known it for what it was. I am also willing to bet that the police took a statement from the engineering teacher. If they haven't, the lawyers for the school sure have by now.

 

If anyone bothered to talk to Ahmed and think it through, this entire thing could have been avoided.  And I bet they would not have had to "break his stuff and throw it away."

[Reefgazer]

Honestly, the schools here are always doing over-reactive, lack-of-common-sense, over-the-top nonsense like that here.  It's like they had to trade in their common sense to get their education degree.

[Word Nerd]

But he wasn't, and he didn't.  We know what his intention was because he declared it to his engineering teacher. 

 

Again, I don't fault the school for following up to some extent. I think the english teacher believed him because she didn't follow up in any way. And clearly the admin thought he didn't have a bomb, but wanted to perpetrate a bomb hoax.  But he kept repeating the same story under interrogation and asking for his parents. What evidence does the school or the police have that he committed any offense.  

 

Yes, I know, and I wasn't disputing that. 

[Reefgazer]

It's like the kid who was suspended because his piece of Pop-Tart looked like a gun.  Sometimes entire schools don't have a thimble's worth of sense.

:iagree:

 

I don't think anyone at the school, including the English teacher who reported it, ever thought it was actually a bomb. According to Ahmed, the teacher said "it looks like a bomb" and he replied that he didn't think it looked like a bomb. He also said that one of the policemen told him "it looks like a movie bomb." I think the English teacher thought that Ahmed intended it to look like a bomb, and was being a smart-ass by claiming it was just a clock and denying it looked like a bomb.

 

The fact that the police say they arrested him because he would only say it was a clock, and wouldn't elaborate or explain it further (as if there was more to explain), also suggests that they thought he was being a smart-ass by not agreeing that it looked like a bomb and admitting that he brought it to scare people. He says the principal threatened him with expulsion if he didn't cooperate by signing a written statement (with no lawyer or parent present???). 

 

I think they were all irked that he was simply stating the fact that it was a clock and asking for his parents, instead of cowering, "admitting" it was a hoax, and signing whatever they put in front of him. So they decided to teach this smart-ass Muslim boy a lesson by arresting him, booking him, fingerprinting him, refusing to let him call his parents, etc., thinking that would scare the crap out of him and teach him some respect for authority. 

 

Fortunately, thanks to social media, the rest of the world decided to teach him a better lesson.

 

[Guest]

a'Course

[Butter]

a'Course

 

Ahem.  MOST teachers in Texas did NOT use CSCOPE.  Some teachers who used it just used a single lesson from it (and the majority of lessons were, apparently, not at all like the cherry-picked ones that were awful).  Some districts (including the one where we live) didn't use it at all.  That whole thing was so blown out of proportion and many articles were just incorrect.

 

But, yeah, Irving has a history of Islamophobia.  No matter what they are saying about this not having to do with the boy's face, name, and religion, I truly believe it most definitely does.

[ktgrok]

Told my husband last night, at least I won't have people asking me why I homeschool for a few weeks. Every time this crud happens it stops the naysayers for a while. 

[blackjackoaktree]

Duh if the engineering teacher thought  it was anything but a clock, he'd have taken it away himself. It was a flipping clock and everyone knew it and that is not now and was never at any point in question.

 

A clock is still a clock even in the "post-911 world."

 

And you know what?! A 14 year old kid into making things is still a 14 year old kid into making things in "this post-911 world." Good grief with the constant trying to tie this foolishness in with an act of terrorism by insinuation. Real subtle.

 

I am soooooo sick of the "post-9/11 world" stuff that is being used as a justification for everything. The entire planet has civilizations that are post some horrible tragidy. Shall we profile every human of every race that ever existed for the remainder of time? There has to be a time to stop. My great aunt still lives by the mindset of WWII rationing becuases it's post-war. She can't let go. There has to be a time that we retain the information learned  so as not to repeat and use it to move on and not dwell. Instead, we are taking the information and "just in case!"ing everything, especially if that person is not white. 

[zoobie]

Told my husband last night, at least I won't have people asking me why I homeschool for a few weeks. Every time this crud happens it stops the naysayers for a while.

Because we like to tell time! ;)

[Murphy101]

I am soooooo sick of the "post-9/11 world" stuff that is being used as a justification for everything. The entire planet has civilizations that are post some horrible tragidy. Shall we profile every human of every race that ever existed for the remainder of time? There has to be a time to stop. My great aunt still lives by the mindset of WWII rationing becuases it's post-war. She can't let go. There has to be a time that we retain the information learned so as not to repeat and use it to move on and not dwell. Instead, we are taking the information and "just in case!"ing everything, especially if that person is not white.

Me too. People in Isreal and other countries far far far more terrorized than us every single day are not freaking out the way that we do over stuff like this.

 

It is not post 9/11.

 

It's paranoia, hysteria, and ignorance.

 

It's letting groups like Isis win without having to lift a finger to do it.

 

I'd bet that engineering teacher is getting a huge looking into for teaching teens enough to be able to do that. And being questioned and drilled about the appropriateness of his course and course materials. And lectured that he shouldn't be teaching them so much that they could do something like this.

[Wheres Toto]

from the article linked above "...award winning STEM program....

 

Seriously?? This school has an award winning STEM program and nobody could identify a friggin clock?

 

SHM

[idnib]

from the article linked above "...award winning STEM program....

 

Seriously?? This school has an award winning STEM program and nobody could identify a friggin clock?

 

SHM

 

They didn't say what the award was. What's the STEM equivalent of the Razzies?

[idnib]

In response to the story DD7 created a light circuit with an LED bulb on a breadboard. Is this the equivalent of lighting a candle in solidarity?  :tongue_smilie:

[Sneezyone]

Sorry, late for the party... but upthread someone was posting about arrest vs charged and whether or not kids could be interrogated by police without their parents presence and I had something to add....

 

Just being arrested gives this kid a "record" that will follow him. Even if he is never charged, even if it happened when he was a minor, even if they have it expunged, it will ALWAYS be there. Local law enforcement, FBI, Homeland... all will see it. It can make it difficult for him to do things like get a passport or get a security clearance. Even with all this publicity, very few will remember this 5 years from now when he is 21 and looking for work. Assuming he's not a tech billionaire by then.

 

And, why yes, yes they can interrogate your minor child in school without the parent or a lawyer being present... don't believe me, google it.... or check out my handy-dandy google search...https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=can+police+question+a+minor+at+school+without+a+parent&start=10

This has been my concern all along, about the criminalization of childhood and its lasting consequences. The school to prison pipeline is real and this is exactly how kids get funneled into it. The next interaction this child has with law enforcement will be that much more unpleasant due to his arrest record.

[Murphy101]

This has been my concern all along, about the criminalization of childhood and its lasting consequences. The school to prison pipeline is real and this is exactly how kids get funneled into it. The next interaction this child has with law enforcement will be that much more unpleasant due to his arrest record.

And even if it does not send them to prison...

 

It teaches an entire generation that living like that - in presumption of guilt and ignorance and prison population control type policies - is a normal way for all citizens to live and even to raise children within.

 

Why aren't the fellow students out picketing the school and refusing to go to class unless the polcies change? Why aren't parents?

 

The complacency with this is possibly more terrifying to me than the ignorance and lack of common sense.

 

While I do agree race was an issue in this, all the kids are being formed to accept this nonsense.

[Slojo]

The one thing I fault the staff for is that I wish the engineering teacher, instead of telling a 14 yr old to keep it put away, had said "This is great-let me keep it in the room and show my classes today, and you can pick it up after school". It seems like the teacher had an idea that maybe it wouldn't be well received in that school's climate, and was trying to warn the child-but didn't go far enough in protecting the student.

 

I suspect that once the principal was made aware, it fell under zero tolerance because it had been perceived to be a weapon-just like the kid who bites his toast into a gun and pretends to shoot kids does.

 

Yes - exactly this! Whole situation could have been averted.

[Joules]

Exactly right. The police can interrogate the child at school as was pointed out upthread. However, the game changes once the child asks for his parents, and this child did.

Does anyone know if "in loco parentis" changes this? As long as the principal is present doesn't he have the rights/job of a parent?

[SKL]

So I guess I had better tell my kids to ask for me if things ever get sticky at school.  That's good to know.

[Slojo]

Did you read where the engineering teacher told the boy not to let the other teachers see it?  Why would he say that if it was obviously (in appearance) just a clock?

 

And this is why we can't "have nice things" in far too many schools...

 

This is actually just a sad statement on STEM education, IMHO... or just using reasoning and logic in general when trying to assess things with which one is not familiar (i.e., "I teach English, I don't know anything about science..."). Seems like the teacher could have said, "Did you show this to any other teachers?... Oh, your science teacher... Can I keep this until the end of the day, and show your science teacher as well...I'd love to understand more...? I don't know a lot about clocks..."  And just the idea that it might have been a "hoax bomb" -- if Ahmed was trying to play a prank like that, why show it to any teacher - why not just invite kids to his locker "out of the sight" of teachers and laugh and joke about it?  Isn't that what kids "trying to get away with something" would do?  Have we really lost all ability to "read people" and assess "probably a threat vs. probably not a threat"?  This whole thing could have gone down differently at so many points along the way... 

 

The school should just apologize -- it really doesn't look like an institution of, you know, LEARNING at this point. 

[redsquirrel]

So I guess I had better tell my kids to ask for me if things ever get sticky at school.  That's good to know.

 

Absolutely!

 

After years of working WITH the police and other law enforcement I have taught my kids and my dh to NEVER go to the police station if you are just asked to 'come and talk about something' and always assume you are being recorded when you speak to law enforcement or any lawyer. And I tell my kids if they get into trouble or get caught up with a group of kids who get in trouble etc to just keep saying "I can't talk to you until my mother or my father are here".

 

And like I said, I worked with the police and other law enforcement. I liked most of them them and got along with most of them. But, I have seen mistakes happen and I know how easily things can go astray. And I have seen some ignorant police who have caused problems.

[redsquirrel]

Does anyone know if "in loco parentis" changes this? As long as the principal is present doesn't he have the rights/job of a parent?

 

I think that might vary from state to state. And I wouldn't depend on the principal to know the right answer. It's like expecting your district to know anything about homeschooling law, they all think they do, but really they don't.

 

If you really want to know you need to speak to a lawyer who defends minors or prosecutes minors in your state.  A family court judge might also know.  Or if your state has a "law guardian' type system they would know.  They are lawyers provided by the state to represent the wishes of children in family court cases. Not all states have them, but they are usually a county agency.

[kroe1]

Showed the photo to law enforcement in our local area. All said bomb first when I asked what it was. None of them knew about this story. (Those of us who work twelves on the night shift rarely know what is going on in the world.)

[idnib]

Showed the photo to law enforcement in our local area. All said bomb first when I asked what it was. 

 

That's sad. As mentioned earlier in the thread, that says more about the state of our nation's STEM education than anything else.

[Acorn]

Showed the photo to law enforcement in our local area. All said bomb first when I asked what it was. None of them knew about this story. (Those of us who work twelves on the night shift rarely know what is going on in the world.)

I doubt that they wouldn't know a bomb needs to contain explosives. Also, I'm going to assume that they realize circuit boards are in nearly everything these days.

[abcmommy]

Showed it to my ten year old daughter who said "It needs gun powder or something to blow up".

 

 

Cops are apparently NOT smarter than my 5th grader?