#IStandWithAhmed

[Guest]

There used to be (maybe still is, I haven't looked) a blog about zero tolerance policies in schools. What's really frightening is how often stuff like this happens. Zero tolerance policies mean no thinking by administrators and yet totally relies on their perceptions of any given situation. Thus, you end up with a zero tolerance policy that includes electronic science projects.

Don't even get me started on the straight A jock getting expelled for bringing a butter knife in his lunch bag. The zero tolerance policies cause more problems than they solve. The chick with the loaded hash pipe got two days of in school suspension, the butter knife owner had to find somewhere else to attend.

[Murphy101]

Or...that he was definitely not interested in making anything that looked remotely like a bomb? Because he was making a clock. To show off to his engineering teacher. Not a hoax bomb.

Right.

 

So now the effort at justification has come down to the kid tried so hard to make it NOT look like a bomb that if course scaring the crap out of everyone must have been his actual intent?

 

How is anyone supposed to be able to have intelligent communication with people who are thinking, or not thinking, to such a level?

[Farrar]

I think this story is really about the school to prison pipeline and the way that schools now use LEO's for all their discipline issues. This time, a middle class geeky kid got caught in the net and we've all rallied to his side in support. Great. He deserves it.

 

But thousands of kids who also don't deserve to be turned over to the police don't have this kind of support and they deserve it too. Some of them have also been profiled or misunderstood, some of them have actually done things that deserve disciplinary action but not the police.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

If she/he thought it looked suspicious, despite what the student claimed, I think reporting it to the main office and letting them talk with the student is a better CYA move than not. Calling the police directly seemed a bit over the top, but if this had ended differently I can absolutely picture all the drama had the teacher NOT said something when they were unsure.

 

Any mystery device with electronics on it is fairly suspicious - if it was placed on a bench at a park or dropped off on a counter I'd be totally unsurprised to see it called in, even if nobody knew who did it. I think it is pretty clear the whole thing was escalated way, way beyond what it needed to be, but given that I, myself, faced a three day suspension for giving a friend Tylenol, talking to the principal and having them verify with the student that the device is indeed safe and what they say it is seems fair.

 

Calling the cops was ridiculous, and their treatment of the whole thing was even worse. I can see why the teacher did it, though, and it has nothing to do with the kid being Muslim. I also think the clock is super nifty and wish he had talked it over with the school and been allowed to go on without drama.

I am not just wanting to argue, but the point I've obviously failed to make is that it shouldn't have been seen as a potential bomb. I saw a photo of the clock. My fifth grader could see it wasn't a bomb. The English teacher didn't think it was a bomb, or so we can assume because she put it in her desk for several hours. So why should she report anything?

[Murphy101]

If she/he thought it looked suspicious, despite what the student claimed, I think reporting it to the main office and letting them talk with the student is a better CYA move than not.

If she had been suspicious and immediately called the principal to be sure, I'd have thought it was maybe paranoia and lacking basic science knowledge, but no harm done and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

But she didn't. There's just no way she did unless she is literally a blithering idiot. If any even half way intelligent person is genuinely suspicious that something could be a BOMB, they don't put it in their desk, mull over it for hours, and eventually maybe call the police.

[LucyStoner]

I watched the video on this story: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/09/16/14-year-old-muslim-student-detained-interrogated-on-charges-of-making-hoax-bomb-he-says-theres-much-more-to-the-story/He says that he closed the schoolbox with a wire because he knew a lock would look suspicious. To me that tells me that he knew that this could be seen as bad.

 

I went to school in southwest Washington state.

I think you are reaching here. All that indicates is that he knew carrying a *locked box* around might be seen as suspicious, not that he was, as you said above nervous to bring his clock or that he realized it might elicit this sort of response.

[BrookValley.]

Does anyone else read crap like this and think, "Good heavens. If they think that about that - they'd call in the military if they saw my homeschool?"

 

😳

 

Uh, yeah, though my thought process went something like, "Good heavens. If they saw what my 8-year old did with some snap circuits, some matchbox cars, and the 'scat mat,' they'd call in the military."    :laugh:

[LucyStoner]

Any mystery device with electronics on it is fairly suspicious - if it was placed on a bench at a park or dropped off on a counter I'd be totally unsurprised to see it called in, even if nobody knew who did it.

 

...

 

I can see why the teacher did it, though, and it has nothing to do with the kid being Muslim. I also think the clock is super nifty and wish he had talked it over with the school and been allowed to go on without drama.

I disagree that any "mystery device with electronics on it" is fairly or even mildly suspicious. Nothing that was in his clock is something you couldn't find in a school with a halfway decent robotics/electronics enrichment program or whatnot. I do not call the cops when I find some kids robot or whatever laying around the homeschool center hallway. If there was a pipe or some viable means of concealing explosives, sure. But a clock and a circuit do not a bomb make.

 

As for saying this has nothing to do with his skin color or religion, you have no basis for such a claim. Statistically, it is at least somewhat probable that it was a factor. There have been many studies done which show a pervasive disparity between the disciplinary actions taken towards students of different races.

[Murphy101]

Since when is a digital clock a "mystery device with electronics on it"?

 

Is it possible that mankind has devolved intellectually so quickly that in supposedly modern USA 2015 a kid with a digital clock is on par with some kind of strange witchcraft to be so suspiciously and ignorantly regarded?

[ktgrok]

 

Is it possible that mankind has devolved intellectually so quickly that in supposedly modern USA 2015 a kid with a digital clock is on par with some kind of strange witchcraft to be so suspiciously and ignorantly regarded?

 

I'm afraid to know the answer to that question. I really am. 

[amsunshine]

Does anyone else read crap like this and think, "Good heavens. If they think that about that - they'd call in the military if they saw my homeschool?"

 

😳

 

Totally!  Potato clocks, electric engine models, snap circuits....good grief!  We've got it all over here!

[Murphy101]

Totally! Potato clocks, electric engine models, snap circuits....good grief! We've got it all over here!

We have rockets (artillery?). (Model rockets. That let me tell you from experience cause a lot of excitement when launched in an upstairs bedroom.)

 

We have a 1 gallon jug of acid. (For pool use.)

 

Some would no doubt claim we sexually abused our poodle last week. (Our poodle would disagree.)

[EmseB]

I guarantee if someone saw that left in an airport or under a park bench they'd probably call it in.

 

Here we have totally different situation because the kid was bringing it to show off and could clearly say what it was. But, honestly, maybe I'm just the dumb one here, but if I saw that pic out of context I would not know it was a clock. The important thing is that they had context and were still acting as if they had to follow some sort of brainless procedure even though they were told what it was multiple times.

[Guest]

 

Any mystery device with electronics on it is fairly suspicious - if it was placed on a bench at a park or dropped off on a counter I'd be totally unsurprised to see it called in, even if nobody knew who did it.

 

Zero of those things happened. That's like saying "Well, if I drove erratically all over the road, I would be totally unsurprised if someone called the cops on me." When IN FACT you were arrested for simply owning a car.

 

I think it is pretty clear the whole thing was escalated way, way beyond what it needed to be, but given that I, myself, faced a three day suspension for giving a friend Tylenol, talking to the principal and having them verify with the student that the device is indeed safe and what they say it is seems fair.

 

What does your school's stupid policy about Tylenol have to do with this child getting arrested? Nada.

 

.

 

 

[Mimm]

Right.

 

So now the effort at justification has come down to the kid tried so hard to make it NOT look like a bomb that if course scaring the crap out of everyone must have been his actual intent?

 

How is anyone supposed to be able to have intelligent communication with people who are thinking, or not thinking, to such a level?

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

I am not just wanting to argue, but the point I've obviously failed to make is that it shouldn't have been seen as a potential bomb. I saw a photo of the clock. My fifth grader could see it wasn't a bomb. The English teacher didn't think it was a bomb, or so we can assume because she put it in her desk for several hours. So why should she report anything?

 

This! At no point did anyone ever think it was a bomb. They thought that it looked like a bomb (but knew that it was not in fact a bomb) and that he could therefore be in trouble for making it. They didn't think IT looked suspicious, they thought HE looked suspicious.

[Mimm]

I guarantee if someone saw that left in an airport or under a park bench they'd probably call it in.

 

 

Yes, but if they did so while someone was standing there saying, "Look, this is mine and it's not a bomb, it's a clock, want me to show you how it works?" then they'd be just as stupid as the teachers and officers involved in this story.

[kroe1]

Just saw the photo. Looks more like a bomb than a clock to me. I could care less who made it. Safety first.

[BrookValley.]

Just saw the photo. Looks more like a bomb than a clock to me. I could care less who made it. Safety first.

 

Ok, but if you really thought it was a bomb, and safety was really your first priority, would you stash it in your desk for a few hours before doing anything about it? 

 

 

 

 

edited for typo. 

[BrookValley.]

 

 

This! At no point did anyone ever think it was a bomb. They thought that it looked like a bomb (but knew that it was not in fact a bomb) and that he could therefore be in trouble for making it. They didn't think IT looked suspicious, they thought HE looked suspicious.

 

 

Also, this. 

[LucyStoner]

Just saw the photo. Looks more like a bomb than a clock to me. I could care less who made it. Safety first.

Bombs require explosives and someplace to put the explosives. This clock had no pipe, no sticks of dynamite, no bottle or place to put explosives or anything else that should cause a reasonable person any alarm. It's a bit of circuitry and a simple number display. What exactly do we think bombs look like? My son makes and programs a lot of stuff. He doesn't have decorative little cases to encase everything his makes.

 

Doesn't anyone have a kid who takes electronics apart? If that clock "looks more like a bomb than a clock" then I assure you we all have houses full of things that would look like bombs if we ripped the injection molded plastics off of them. Alarm clocks, computers, TVs, a video game system etc.

[catz]

Just for clarity, this is the clock ...

 

http://www.dallasnews.com/photos/20150916-nm_irvingpd_al09.ece/BINARY/w940/NM_IrvingPD_AL09

 

It looks like a clock to me.  There are very few components and it has a huge display.  The case is tiny.  No room for explosives. 

 

I just read this kid is STILL suspended for 3 days and no one has issued an apology.  This kid never threatened anyone!  I hope someone throws him a scholarship for a private school.

[mommymilkies]

Ok, but if you really thought it was a bomb, and safety was really your first priority, would you stash it in your desk for a few hours before doing anything about it? 

 

 

No kidding.  Not to mention, I have the picture up.  I'm looking really hard and I have to say:

 

1. Where are the explosives?  They do realize bombs need something besides a timer a la action movie, right?  And even then-what's going to blow up: the polyester meeting the aluminum casing? LOL

 

2. COPS know what a bomb looks like, right?  Aren't they trained in at least basic knowledge that a circuit board and wiring you can use to make a battery powered crappy flashlight are not actually what makes up a bomb? 

[3 ladybugs]

I think you are reaching here. All that indicates is that he knew carrying a *locked box* around might be seen as suspicious, not that he was, as you said above nervous to bring his clock or that he realized it might elicit this sort of response.

I locked box looks suspicious? Gee don't ever fly again! Most people I know have TSA compliment locks.

 

The only part of this that could be suspicious is the wiring and engineering aspect. You think they would call the police if they saw the head cheerleader with a locked box full of money from their recent car wash? No. First of all money doesn't click, jingle maybe, click no. So if said cheerleader had a locked box in a bag, likely no one would know. However let's say that the box fell out her bag. A teacher would make her open the box (like what happened here) and see money. End of story. The principle may be called to protect the money, but that would be it.

 

I guess I just think that if a kid is smart enough to build a clock, and smart enough to think that a lock would "make it look bad" then I would think that he is smart enough to know it isn't the lock in and of itself that makes it look bad, it is the engineering and the wiring.

[catz]

Doesn't anyone have a kid who takes electronics apart? If that clock "looks more like a bomb than a clock" then I assure you we all have houses full of things that would look like bombs if we ripped the injection molded plastics off of them. Alarm clocks, computers, TVs, a video game system etc.

 

:iagree:   LOL - we have taken apart stuff that looks much more nefarious than this large display with a few components.  The school and the police are just showing their ignorance.  If this kid was THREATENING verbally, that would be different. 

 

I'm glad someone had the sense to contact the media about this.  I'm sure that doesn't happen enough.

 

[Aelwydd]

Ah, the great state of Texas. Where the teachers can carry guns but the students can't carry clocks.

 

:leaving:

 

Yes, have you seen pictures of various school signs advertising armed staff members?

 

I bet Douglas Adams would be appalled by the lack of digital watches among Texas faculty.

[LucyStoner]

I locked box looks suspicious? Gee don't ever fly again! Most people I know have TSA compliment locks.

 

The only part of this that could be suspicious is the wiring and engineering aspect. You think they would call the police if they saw the head cheerleader with a locked box full of money from their recent car wash? No. First of all money doesn't click, jingle maybe, click no. So if said cheerleader had a locked box in a bag, likely no one would know. However let's say that the box fell out her bag. A teacher would make her open the box (like what happened here) and see money. End of story. The principle may be called to protect the money, but that would be it.

 

I guess I just think that if a kid is smart enough to build a clock, and smart enough to think that a lock would "make it look bad" then I would think that he is smart enough to know it isn't the lock in and of itself that makes it look bad, it is the engineering and the wiring.

At a school a locked up small personal case might be assumed to be full of someone's stash or something explicitly banned like a weapon or what not.

 

Wiring is not inherently suspicious. Neither are electronic components. Listening to these arguments makes me think I'm in an episode of the twilight zone or something.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I'm willing to die on the hill that fascism shouldn't flourish just because bystanders are too ignorant to know what a bomb needs in order to be a bomb.

 

In other words, if you're too dumb to know what something is or isn't, you don't get to be the one to raise the village alarm.

[Farrar]

It's just a long chain of stupidity. I don't feel that scathing toward the English teacher who didn't know. I mean, whatever, maybe she's living with her head in Shakespeare or Austen or whatever. So she thinks, I think this is okay, but let me report it. Then the principal thinks, gee, this looks suspicious. It's probably okay, but I'd better send it up the chain. So he calls in the police. The police go, well, this obviously isn't a bomb, but maybe the kid was trying to fool someone so we'd better arrest him. Where does it stop?!? It's like everyone is caught in a web where they're not allowed to do nothing. They always have to be passing the buck up the chain. And the end of the chain is always the police now.

 

Even if it *was* actually a hoax bomb (which it obviously was not), he didn't faux plant it or threaten anyone or anything. Why does that have to be a police matter? Why do most of the things that happen in schools have to turn into police matters these days. You hear about kids coming late to school being dealt with by the police or kids yelling and swearing at each other being dealt with by the police or kids saying they hate their teacher, call the police, or kids writing stories about shooting dinosaurs arrested or kids eating waffles into the shape of guns, call in the cops. It's just crazy. Can't the teachers and school administrators just freaking do something on their own anymore?

[Farrar]

At a school a locked up small personal case might be assumed to be full of someone's stash or something explicitly banned like a weapon or what not.

 

A lot of schools specifically have rules against having locked cases at school. Even that quote from the Blaze seemed clearly to be implying that he tried very hard to make it clear that the box was not locked, not that he was worried about the wires.

[Mergath]

Just saw the photo. Looks more like a bomb than a clock to me. I could care less who made it. Safety first.

Really? Have you ever even seen a picture of an actual bomb that was not from a tv show?

[EmseB]

Yes, but if they did so while someone was standing there saying, "Look, this is mine and it's not a bomb, it's a clock, want me to show you how it works?" then they'd be just as stupid as the teachers and officers involved in this story.

Maybe, or maybe just distrustful. But if I thought it was a bomb, I wouldn't keep it near my person for the better part of the day.

[LucyStoner]

Really? Have you ever even seen a picture of an actual bomb that was not from a tv show?

Or even seen a bomb on a TV show? They.have.mock.explosives.on.them.

 

Gee, it's not like what I know about bombs came from memorizing the Anarchists' Cookbook or something. #yeahiwatchedtoomuchlawandorder

[myfunnybunch]

I locked box looks suspicious? Gee don't ever fly again! Most people I know have TSA compliment locks.

 

The only part of this that could be suspicious is the wiring and engineering aspect. You think they would call the police if they saw the head cheerleader with a locked box full of money from their recent car wash? No. First of all money doesn't click, jingle maybe, click no. So if said cheerleader had a locked box in a bag, likely no one would know. However let's say that the box fell out her bag. A teacher would make her open the box (like what happened here) and see money. End of story. The principle may be called to protect the money, but that would be it.

 

I guess I just think that if a kid is smart enough to build a clock, and smart enough to think that a lock would "make it look bad" then I would think that he is smart enough to know it isn't the lock in and of itself that makes it look bad, it is the engineering and the wiring.

That's a stretch. A teen, even one smart enough to make a clock at home, doesn't necessarily have the people savvy and understanding of the particular new-to-him school climate to understand what the adults around him are going to project onto him about his own intentions.

 

Seriously, you'd expect a 14 yo to know that folks are going to look at his clock and think, not "bomb," but "He intended us to think it was a bomb!"? 'Cause I'd bet he was thinking, "Look at this clock. I made it. Better not lock it, because someone might think I'm hiding something in the box. This way they'll be able to see that it's a clock."

[Farrar]

If that looks like a bomb to anyone, don't ever go in my kid's room. His collection of random Arduino bits and Raspberry Pi stuff scattered about the floor will probably make you convinced he's plotting world domination.

[Murphy101]

Listening to these arguments makes me think I'm in an episode of the twilight zone or something.

I live in an alternate universe. Or other people do. Not sure which, but I feel the same way as you.

 

It's just... unreal.

[LucyStoner]

If that looks like a bomb to anyone, don't ever go in my kid's room. His collection of random Arduino bits and Raspberry Pi stuff scattered about the floor will probably make you convinced he's plotting world domination.

Yeah, your son is the east coast cell and mine is the west coast cell of The Nerdy Homeschoolers Liberation Front. I'm sure there are many, many other affiliates. I think robotics was one of the first summer challenge classes to fill up where my son took it. I had to register him first thing in the morning the first day it was open to get his spot and he had to select 2 back up choices (Astrophysics and Plant Biology) because they book up fast. Lots of kids love electronics.

 

When Radio Shack went out of business, my son went to town on 90% off bits and bobbles for his burgeoning collection.

[Meriwether]

It's just a long chain of stupidity. I don't feel that scathing toward the English teacher who didn't know. I mean, whatever, maybe she's living with her head in Shakespeare or Austen or whatever. So she thinks, I think this is okay, but let me report it. Then the principal thinks, gee, this looks suspicious. It's probably okay, but I'd better send it up the chain. So he calls in the police. The police go, well, this obviously isn't a bomb, but maybe the kid was trying to fool someone so we'd better arrest him. Where does it stop?!? It's like everyone is caught in a web where they're not allowed to do nothing. They always have to be passing the buck up the chain. And the end of the chain is always the police now.

 

Even if it *was* actually a hoax bomb (which it obviously was not), he didn't faux plant it or threaten anyone or anything. Why does that have to be a police matter? Why do most of the things that happen in schools have to turn into police matters these days. You hear about kids coming late to school being dealt with by the police or kids yelling and swearing at each other being dealt with by the police or kids saying they hate their teacher, call the police, or kids writing stories about shooting dinosaurs arrested or kids eating waffles into the shape of guns, call in the cops. It's just crazy. Can't the teachers and school administrators just freaking do something on their own anymore?

I haven't taught in over a decade, but I was upset because everything was handled in house. A student assaulted a teacher or another student? That and similar issues were all handled by the school.  I think that if a student beats up a teacher they should have something more than a 3 day suspension.

[Farrar]

Yeah, your son is the east coast cell and mine is the west coast cell of The Nerdy Homeschoolers Liberation Front. I'm sure there are many, many other affiliates. I think robotics was one of the first summer challenge classes to fill up where my son took it. I had to register him first thing in the morning the first day it was open to get his spot and he had to select 2 back up choices (Astrophysics and Plant Biology) because they book up fast. Lots of kids love electronics.

 

When Radio Shack went out of business, my son went to town on 90% off bits and bobbles for his burgeoning collection.

 

I NEED THIS ON A SHIRT!  :thumbup:

 

(Sorry for yelling. But in my head as I typed it, I was yelling.)

[Mimm]

Just saw the photo. Looks more like a bomb than a clock to me. I could care less who made it. Safety first.

 

Safety first is all too frequently a lame excuse people use to unplug their brains and potentially traumatize kids who don't deserve it. I find it repulsive.

[MrsMommy]

No kidding.  Not to mention, I have the picture up.  I'm looking really hard and I have to say:

 

1. Where are the explosives?  They do realize bombs need something besides a timer a la action movie, right?  And even then-what's going to blow up: the polyester meeting the aluminum casing? LOL

 

2. COPS know what a bomb looks like, right?  Aren't they trained in at least basic knowledge that a circuit board and wiring you can use to make a battery powered crappy flashlight are not actually what makes up a bomb? 

 

Seriously. This. Anyone who thinks that clock looks like a bomb needs to turn off the spy shows for a bit. Any teacher who not only thinks it looks like a bomb, but thinks it's a good idea to hang onto a "bomb" for several hours before reporting it needs to turn off the TV forever. And find another line of work.

[Amira]

Yeah, your son is the east coast cell and mine is the west coast cell of The Nerdy Homeschoolers Liberation Front. I'm sure there are many, many other affiliates. I think robotics was one of the first summer challenge classes to fill up where my son took it. I had to register him first thing in the morning the first day it was open to get his spot and he had to select 2 back up choices (Astrophysics and Plant Biology) because they book up fast. Lots of kids love electronics.

 

When Radio Shack went out of business, my son went to town on 90% off bits and bobbles for his burgeoning collection.

My son can volunteer to recruit internationally for TNHLF.

[fraidycat]

#yeahiwatchedtoomuchlawandorder

#impossiblenosuchthingastoomuchl&o

[EmseB]

 

The policy about Tylenol is relevant because the point is that almost all public schools have stupid policies like this that are designed to absolve faculty of the need to use their brains in situations like this. If they make independent decisions and something goes wrong they are liable. And it's easy to say it's obviously a clock and they were just being racist, but I think there's much more going on.

[Guest]

I think there's much more going on.

 

Wut?

[EmseB]

It's like everyone is caught in a web where they're not allowed to do nothing. They always have to be passing the buck up the chain. And the end of the chain is always the police now.

 

...

 

Can't the teachers and school administrators just freaking do something on their own anymore?

This is exactly it, and no, no they can't. Because lawyers.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

When somebody has the NHLF logo made, start a new thread, please.

 

If nobody does it by the weekend I'll ask my kid to give it a try. He's good at stuff like that.

[EmseB]

Wut?

Zero tolerance policies leading to brainless decisions by faculty and administration.

 

I quoted your reply to AM about the stupid Tylenol policy because you asked why it was relevant to this topic. It didn't show up because your reply was embedded in your quote of her post and I'm on mobile and couldn't fix it. Sorry. :/

[Farrar]

My son can volunteer to recruit internationally for TNHLF.

 

If Ahmed hadn't already signed on to private school, we could've tried to recruit him. ;)

[EmseB]

After reading this thread I now believe I'm the only WTM'r who had only seen a bomb on TV and never in real life. I need to get out more, I suppose.

[mommymilkies]

After reading this thread I now believe I'm the only WTM'r who had only seen a bomb on TV and never in real life. I need to get out more, I suppose.

They show real ones on the news and in books a lot.  But even on TV, they always come with explosives. ;)