Fourth edition of TWTM...here's your chance to weigh in!

[AmyontheFarm]

If I could wish I'd have you add:

• more information about teaching special needs students
• high school "paper work" information like what was suggested earlier.  We chose to go with http://www.narhs.org/ so we could chose what curriculum we wanted and still get an accredited transcript/ diploma at the end of high school.
• how to use/ find cheaper or even free resources.
• more information about CLEP, AP, Dual enrollment, etc.

[elegantlion]

I would consider adding A Workbook for Arguments, it's essentially A Rulebook for Arguments with exercises. It was very helpful for my son who was a delayed writer with better than average logic skills. We had already gone through A Rulebook and found A Workbook much more useful. 

 

I would also consider adding Discovery of Deduction as a formal logic recommendation. We used in 8th grade without issue. 

[redsquirrel]

First of all, I want to say that I have LOVED the way you revised the logic stage history section. I have all three editions and I think the third edition logic stage was very nicely presented. I always wanted to tell you that. I am sure it was hard work and I want you to know it did not go unappreciated!

 

 

One suggestions: Hake Grammar after FLL. It goes to 8th grade and can be a good inexpensive secular alternative to R&S, which is a bit OTT for lots of people. You can just order the grammar section and not get the writing part.

 

Logic stage science suggestions:  TOPS science.  TOPS is all hands on and it does require some putting stuff together. But, once you get it ready, it is written to the student. So, if you are the type of parent who doesn't mind spending a few weeks in August putting together a science station, a TOPS unit can be great. They are especially nice for families that like to get together in groups and do science together.

 

 

also Critical thinking Press now has a third book in their "Critical Thinking" series. This is the one by Anita Harandek, and there is Critical Thinking Book 1 and Book 2.  You have them recommended as a secular logic resource.  There is now a third book called "Practical Critical Thinking" and the publisher is presenting it as part of the same series.  I haven't even seen it, but it might be worth looking at or asking to review.  People are wondering how it fits in with the first two.  The same publisher also has "The James Madison Critical Thinking Course" as a secular logic resource.

 

Finally: you have a nice lecture about transitioning from middle grades to high school. I think it would be nice if that was turned into a chapter or used as an introduction to the high school section, or at the end of the logic stage section...somewhere to let parents know what their big picture goals are by the end of the logic stage.  It might be nice to have something like that from the grammar to the logic stage as well.  I am saying this thinking that I should do a good double check because it might actually be in there. If so, I am sorry.

 

And maybe look at the thread where you were asking for questions for the Peace Hill Press You Tube channel? I think a lot of sticking points and other fodder are covered there.

 

I cannot wait to buy the fourth edition, because of course I will!

 

 

[Slache]

To piggy-back off of redsquirrel, I would pay a lot of money for your lectures in book format. I am not an auditory learner in the slightest, so while I value what you have to say, my mind would just wander while listening. Bonus points if it's available on Kindle. ;)

[Rosie_0801]

CSMP maths deserves a mention. My mildly dyscalculic dd would not be learning maths without it, I don't think.

[happypamama]

To piggy-back off of redsquirrel, I would pay a lot of money for your lectures in book format. I am not an auditory learner in the slightest, so while I value what you have to say, my mind would just wander while listening. Bonus points if it's available on Kindle. ;)

Totally agree there. I'll read essays but generally won't watch or listen to lectures.

 

I also suggest listing GSWL.

[SilverMoon]

While I really enjoyed the simplicity of the grammar stage science, the logic stage science could use some more practical suggestions. :o Home Science Adventure was it? I couldn't make myself use one. :o Many of the T&K kits have lousy reviews. A method for using real books for logic stage too would work best for me, but I think most would want solid recommendations from the plethora of "classical" options there are now.

 

I can't really think of other complaints. Well, I'd also add R&S as a Spelling Workout alternative, but I have a foggy memory of that being hashed out already.

 

Thank you! The book and this board have had a monumental impact on homeschooling my crew.

[SeaConquest]

It seems that, especially in the logic and rhetoric stages, people are moving more and more towards online homeschooling classes. I would definitely expand on the many options people have in this regard. There are great lists of all the online providers on the Logic and High School boards. 

 

 

[IsabelC]

My ideal TWTM book would probably run to a dozen or so volumes   :laugh: (although I imagine a lot of the things I'd like would be impractical or not make sense for you as the author)

 

One thing you might consider, though, would be including additional material on home educating "non average" kids or home schooling in "non standard situations". How to plan and schedule for kids with learning disabilities or other barriers, how to manage with accelerated kids, and particularly lots of different example of schedules of different types. Personally I would love the whole thing to be interspersed with quotes from parents, but I suspect that might not fit well with the authoritative tone of the work. I'd like to see more pages on *how to* home educate and fewer on what resources to buy; many of these are either unsuitable or prohibitively expensive outside of the US, and in any case such lists are always going to date quickly (then again, that will be something to update for the 5th edition. And I understand that parents in the US are your main audience).

 

Also I'd like to see an extended bibliography of books and research about all aspects of home education (but again, since you are presenting your personal opinion and not a literature survey, you probably don't want to spend time on that).

 

I loved the suggestion of including at least some of the lectures with the book; I don't listen to things often so I'd prefer a transcript in the the actual text. (Btw, are transcripts of the lectures for sale??)

 

And finally, I would urge you to completely rewrite all the parts about computers, technology and programming, preferably in collaboration with somebody knowledgeable in the field. 

 

 

[Ethel Mertz]

I love all the suggestions for "how-to" sections.

 

Here are a couple curricula suggestions:

 

Middle School science: Real Science Odyssey from Pandia Press. So far, they only have the Biology published.

 

MCT materials - we're using the Self-Evident Truths materials and (maybe) the philosophy this year. MCT's vocabulary materials are helpful as well and are not as dry as Vocab from Classical Roots.

 

Latin - Classical Academic Press materials

 

Simply Charlotte Mason - artist portfolios and Shakespeare material

 

I wish I could find a decent Spanish curriculum that goes through high school.

 

Other items: We are totally out-of-sync with history and science cycles: for 7th grade this year, we're continuing biology and are doing modern history. DS loves history. He loves SOTW. When we finished Volume One when he was nearly 7, he said with a little sob: "I'm going to miss the Holy Roman Empire." It's been like that each year and we've followed additional US history rabbit trails in the last couple of years. Bottom line is that we've taken our time with both history and science and we will end up going through two history cycles instead of three and will probably do the same with science. In high school, I'm pretty sure we will do a year of US history/government.

 

Another vote for writing up some of those lectures as essays... A series of essays would make a great appendix.

 

I'm sure I'll think of other things...

[texasmama]

I have the first and third editions, but it has been awhile since I have scoured them for recommendations.

 

I don't know if Writing Tales has ever made the cut, but I love it as an elementary writing program.  (levels 1 and 2)

 

ETA:  It is very user-friendly while remaining classical.

[redsquirrel]

I think a 'be not afraid' of public school textbooks is something to think about. I am specifically thinking of logic stage secular science.

 

There are a lot of us who use them and then adding in our own hands on component. But, very often you can buy an inexpensive public school textbook used on Amazon and the publisher will have 'extras' online to print out and use. Then you add in your own hands on (TPS science or something) and you have science. CPO comes to mind right away, but there are so many others. Holt science, Prentice Hall are others I see mentioned quite often.

 

Kolbe academy sells secular science by grade. It is a catholic online academy, but has secular science for sale by grade. You are allowed to buy just science or just literature etc, if you like. It is one option for buying secular science if you don't want to buy used through Amazon. It can be a pain to put together teacher's edition and student book etc from the same year. Not everyone finds it delightful to spend hours doing that, lol. Kolbe usually has a student book, a workbook an answer key etc for sale.

 

I think more direction in the logic stage about keeping a science notebook each year would be helpful.

 

I guess what I am saying is that it is difficult to homeschool logic stage science. There seem to be three rough groups: Some haven't done formal science instruction yet. Some of those have had very little science knowledge.. But some have not had instruction but have  a LOT of science knowledge about planets and dinosaurs and plants etc.  Then you have kids who have a lot of science instruction and knowledge. They have seen the cool stuff. They have done stuff with food colouring in cold and hot water etc etc. Both groups of middle grade kids, those with instruction and those without,  who know a lot might not be ready for upper level math (algebra and beyond) in their science. If they are, fine! Move on up to high school science a little early. But, if you aren't....science turns into a big parking lot. There was a distinct amount of "I have already done this a couple years ago" in the middle grades with my older boy. He wasn't ready for algebra based physics, but lots of middle grade kits etc were covering old ground.

 

And one more resource: American Chemistry Society free chemistry curriculum. It has both an online component and things that are printed out. It looks like it is a HUGE amount of information, but it can be covered in maybe...3 months of a school year with maybe 2 times a week science? I am a bit fuzzy on that. It did have a bit of 'we already did this in third grade' going on, but I think it is possible to go a bit deeper with it.

 

They also have a elementary grade physical science program called 'inquiry in action" which is about learning how to conduct experiments while learning about the physical world.  It uses M&Ms!

 

http://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/education/resources.html This has links to both the middle school program, called "Middle School Chemistry" and "inquiry in action' for grades 3-5.  There is also something called 'Adventures in Chemistry" which seem to be one off experiments for classroom or other use.

 

 

 

[Deee]

BFSU for science

MEP for maths (its outrageously good and free, along with all the lesson plans etc)

If you want a scientist to look over the science chapters, I'll put my hand up.

I absolutely agree with the recommendations for a chapter on homeschooling the real child (I can't tell you how helpful your conf sessions were) and burnout. And more how-tos rather than what to buy.

Danielle

[IsabelC]

Oh and I forgot the most crucial suggestion: a special discounted price for boardies who have already bought one edition of TWTM and want to persuade their husbands that it's worth upgrading to the fourth edition ;)

[WTMCassandra]

In the realm of "ones SWB said were great but drove you batty," I respectfully request that Writing Strands be removed.

 

I bought and sold various volumes three separate times, a couple of years apart each, and one year sat myself down in my used homeschool bookstore and looked through every. volume. trying to see how many lessons I would actually use. When I went through the whole series and found I would only want to teach 2-3 lessons per book, I gave up for good.

 

Inclusion of this series has always been a puzzler for me. In the early years, I know that separate writing curricula were an elusive species, and I remember that Norton didn't allow you to put R&S in the first edition. However, Writing Strands does not at all mesh with the overall strategy for writing that you have so articulately written about (and that framework has been of way more value to me than any curricula could have been). Writing Strands focuses so much on creative writing, which you so (rightly, I think) discuss as something either your student will like or not, not something required to be taught formally, like expository writing needs to be.

 

I had always HATED creative writing, and I had one child that hated it even more than I did. And my other child would do it on her own and the Writing Strands exercises were fun but provided very little to no expository writing instruction.

 

So, I have never understood how Writing Strands fit in with the overall philosophy of the WTM, and after repeated tries, it was a complete no-go in my homeschool.  I used Classical Writing for a while, and the Lost Tools of Writing fit a niche for a while (the absolute best on teaching the canon of invention, IMHO), but over the long haul, it was your framework for writing instruction in the various versions of WTM (I own all three) that was the most successful for us. Almost everything else you have ever recommended has been good fits for us, but Writing Strands was the only sour note.

 

In other news, I now have a graduating senior and a rising junior who hit their writing milestones just when you said they would, even though I was nervous sometimes because your framework seemed so "non-standard." But it works terrifically, and I am tremendously grateful. Thank you for all you have contributed to the homeschooling community!

[ScoutTN]

Agreeing with the need for how-to, esp with logic and rhetoric stages. Your lectures have been SO helpful! Please include a reference to them and to these boards in the book! SilverMoon's use of "monumental" is appropriate to describe the effects of your book and this board on our family's home education as well. Thank you!

 

 

Math Mammoth, Novare Science texts, CAP Latin curricula, CAP W&R, OUP books for Logic stage Ancients and Middle Ages and Simply Charlotte Mason art portfolios would be on my list of resources to add.

 

 

 

 

[Audrey]

For high school, I would suggest taking a look at the offerings at Oak Meadow.  IMO, they're solid and easily fitted into a WTM model.

 

 

That said...  I own the first and third editions of WTM, but the one that I've used the most is the first edition.  Back then, there weren't a lot of resources.  You were recommending selection of solid spine "textbooks" (my term, not yours, but that's how I think of them).  You were recommending that those not be the sole focus, but were to be enhanced and expanded by liberal use of many other books.  That idea was the best part of the book -- not the resource and recommendation lists.  I don't think I looked at those lists more than once or twice, but I read and re-read your essays on each grade and the use of the spines, outlining, the progression of skills, etc.  I may not follow everything exactly, but I refer to my old first edition every year for planning and for year-end evaluation.  It's become the frame for our homeschool journey. 

 

I'm nearly done with homeschooling, but you were there in the beginning and will be there in the end.  Not for the curriculum reviews and recommendations, but for the practical, thoroughly explained philosophy that has proven to be a flexible mainstay throughout our years.  Don't lose that or underestimate it. 

 

That's my 2.9 cents (exchange rate, eh?) ;)

 

 

[Chris in VA]

Wanted to add another idea--I really wish you'd ditch Slow and Steady, Get Me Ready as your preschool recommendation. The problem is, I don't know what to replace it with, as a resource. Pls, no workbooks for under 5s. Maybe just suggest a great booklist, outdoor time, a sensory bin, household chores (you could list appropriate ones), a good set of blocks, some silks or cast off dress up clothes, etc. I do love the way you say play is important. Perhaps you could also write a paragraph or two on how to keep Really Littles busy while homeschooling Bigs.

 

Also, was wondering--in the 3rd edition, you DO mention the forums, right? They are invaluable, of course!

[Catherine]

A couple more quick thoughts:  Khan Academy math and programming are resources we've used to hit or review topics that got lighter treatment in our textbook-for late logic and rhetoric level students.  

 

Just also to add: Rightstart math has a games book (or CD-rom if you choose) that is excellent drill that can be used independently from the core program itself.  

 

AND (I can't stop!) I am forever grateful to another boardie who recommended Hands On Equations as a pre-algebra resource.  If you aren't familiar with it, it's a stepwise program that walks the student through the concepts of variables and manipulating them using actual small tokens to represent the variables.  It can be started in late grammar stage students.  

 

 

[SnMomof7]

CLE for skill subjects. I don't recall seeing it mentioned in the 3rd edition, but it's a gem.

[Amy in NH]

[sNIP]

 

Other items: We are totally out-of-sync with history and science cycles: for 7th grade this year, we're continuing biology and are doing modern history. DS loves history. He loves SOTW. When we finished Volume One when he was nearly 7, he said with a little sob: "I'm going to miss the Holy Roman Empire." It's been like that each year and we've followed additional US history rabbit trails in the last couple of years. Bottom line is that we've taken our time with both history and science and we will end up going through two history cycles instead of three and will probably do the same with science. In high school, I'm pretty sure we will do a year of US history/government.

 

Another vote for writing up some of those lectures as essays... A series of essays would make a great appendix.

 

I'm sure I'll think of other things...

 

Liking Ethel's post here, because her like button is missing.  I particularly agree with this snipped part. 

 

I'm homeschooling my second batch of kids, and we've done the same thing - two history cycles instead of three.  We like to add in approximately a year of American history integrated with SOTW, and we tend to spin our wheels in some of the larger empires, especially in the early years.   We just shift gears from grammar to logic stage materials, particularly with the reading and writing, as we go along.  I've also found that there is no harm in including a particularly relevant piece of grammar stage literature in the logic stage, and they actually tend to get more out of it with a more mature mind/outlook than they would have if we had rushed through it in an attempt to do three cycles.

[Faithful_Steward]

While I really enjoyed the simplicity of the grammar stage science, the logic stage science could use some more practical suggestions. :o Home Science Adventure was it? I couldn't make myself use one. :o Many of the T&K kits have lousy reviews. A method for using real books for logic stage too would work best for me, but I think most would want solid recommendations from the plethora of "classical" options there are now.

 

I can't really think of other complaints. Well, I'd also add R&S as a Spelling Workout alternative, but I have a foggy memory of that being hashed out already.

 

I agree with Silvermoon. The list of kits is too long and too expensive. I love it in theory, so I wish it worked for us. I'd like to see a plan with more books and fewer kits.

 

I would also appreciate a section on how to recognize potential special needs and when/where to get started with evaluations. I think the ps would have recognized the warning signs earlier than I did.

[Nan in Mass]

About Writing Strands...

 

It was a puzzle to me, also, for quite a number of years, but we used it because the other options were all either way too complicated for me to do at home with no academic writing or teaching skills, or they messed with my children's style, something which worried me and hurt my children badly every time we tried it.  When they had just gone to the trouble, despite hating to write and finding it difficult, of writing something that said what they wanted to say in the way they wanted it said, and the curriculum told them to reword it, they mutineed.  If there was something wrong with the wording, then they were happy to change it, but there usually wasn't.  They had trouble with overall organization, following directions, spelling, punctuation, producing writing that met the goals, and many other things, but if you read any particular sentence aloud, it sounded fine.  It was an imitation of the stuff they'd read and heard all their lives and usually sounded more adult than the writing curriculum expected from someone their age.  So we stuck with Writing Strands, because we had to do something and at least that got done.

 

Then I noticed that when they needed to write something for another subject, they knew how to do it.  Writing Strands taught formulas, sort of formats for various types of academic writing and some household writing.  I also noticed that all that annoying creative writing that my children hated so much was making it very easy for us to talk about their literature reading.  We're an engineering family.  We learn by doing and we hate pulling apart literature.  Writing Strands taught my children about the decisions writers make as they build a piece of fiction by making my children make those same decisions as they themselves wrote bits of fiction.  And then we hit high school and great books.  Wow.  Writing Strands fed directly into TWEM.  It was a lifesaver.  Like some other things in TWTM, even half doing what SWB and JW said to do, and doing it badly at that, was enough to save us in the end.  Thank goodness I followed at least some of their directions even when I didn't understand them.

 

Nan

[SnMomof7]

Essentials in Writing? It's newer, but seems incredibly do-able.

[DoubleAMom]

I agree with previous posts suggesting Building Foundations of Scientific Understanding (BSFU).  I know it doesn't necessarily correspond with the four-year science cycle to go along with history.  However, it is the most comprehensive, well-organized elementary science program I have come across (after spending hours upon hours researching science curriculum).  If your desire is for your children to grow up scientific thinkers, independent science learners, with a thorough understanding of how all the disciplines of science interrelate, then this is your curriculum. 

 

One suggestion:  Since it seems as many people favor more information relating to "how to homeschool" vs. actual resources, why not make the resource suggestions as on online supplement to the book?  The recommendations could be updated as new information and resources come along, and the book could focus more on homeschool implementation.

 

I would like to see more information on how to integrate STEM and foreign language instruction other than Latin into a classical model.

 

Looking forward to a 4th edition!  I should probably get a royalty for all the people I have recommended the 3rd ed.! ;)

[redsquirrel]

Ok, I adore BFSU, but I do think that it needs a caveat. It is NOT open and go, it is not particularly intuitive. The first time I opened the first book and saw that flowchart I almost cried.  That said, I totally agree with every good thing said about it, I really do. I think Dr Nebel is an amazing educator and he deserves a broader audience. I just think it needs a big "Don't Panic" sign on the front or something.  Heck, my friend is a science teacher (currently getting an advanced degree from a major university) and she found it both wonderful and defeating.

 

Those books sit on my shelf and several times a year I try to make them work. I revisit, review and rededicate. I am pretty sure the books are quietly judging me for being a lame science teacher.

[Deee]

I'll second keeping Writing Strands, even if its with caveats on it. Its short, doable, no-frills and can be done independently by the most prickly, reluctant writer (ask me how I know). Apart from reading and some quick comments, mum can be sidelined, and sometimes that can be a great diffuser. It teaches formulas, without those formulas driving the writing. It makes kids push past "I don't know what to write" because the bites are small. But most of all, as Nan says, it lets kids keep their voice, which is the key to being a comfortable writer.

D

[Roadrunner]

I know we want so many resources added to the recommended list, but I want go add that knowing what you prefer, what you think are the best, most rigorous choices has tremendous value to me. Basically I want to know that resources you decide to include in the book are truly the ones you prefer over others rather than just have a massive list of what is available to homeschoolers. I hope I am making sense.

[purpleowl]

One suggestion:  Since it seems as many people favor more information relating to "how to homeschool" vs. actual resources, why not make the resource suggestions as on online supplement to the book?  The recommendations could be updated as new information and resources come along, and the book could focus more on homeschool implementation.

I think it's actually good to include at least some resource suggestions along with the how-to.  Like Roadrunner, I value your suggestions, even when I don't end up choosing to follow them.  I wonder if maybe your "top picks" could be included in the book, but an online supplement could be maintained as well with a longer list of recommendations.  

[mommymilkies]

Like quark, I keep my 1st edition WTM because of the 'how to' sections vs. the expanded list of which-curriculum-to-use in the 3rd. I still check out the 3rd because I think the logic & high school sections have a more info in them than the 1st.

 

I wonder if it would be worth it to publish a stand-alone high school WTM book (pulling some of WEM, fleshing out some of the things asked for here) for those of us who feel comfy with our 1st (or 2nd, or 3rd) editions of WTM who would love more SWB-for-high-school. 

 

It could include all of the stuff you covered in your recent WTM Online Conference series in Beyond The Elementary Years. :-)

I would so buy this.  Yes, please. :D

 

Galore Park Latin Prep, shipped from Horrible books.com or book depository.co.uk

Yes!  Especially for Visual Spacial Kids and secular homeschoolers.  They are colorful, funny, but very thorough and impressive.  

 

Can we add Apples & Pears by Prometheus Press for Spelling?  Notably for kids with dyslexia, but slow learners, as well.  I know on the Special Needs forum it's been a Godsend for many of us.  All About Spelling, as well!!

[swellmomma]

Definitely get rid of Jack Daws.  

As for what should be included.  This forum should get a mention.  I think all of us have turned to it for helpful advice enough for it to qualify as a must have resource in our homeschools.  

[Chrysalis Academy]

Agreeing with other comments that the most critical part of TWTM is not the curriculum lists - it's impossible to keep up with everything new, and the Forum is a great place to get detailed & extensive recommendations, reviews, etc.  The best part of the book is the explanations, the how to do things - and especially the *why* to do specific things.  Why spend so much time on X in the Grammar or Logic stage? What critical skill is it building? Helping us see the big picture, the forest, and practical advice about implementation.

 

Of course, update the lists, but I would hope they wouldn't expand to be the primary focus, because they will never be completely up to date given publication schedules and the speed at which new things are popping up.  

 

Some things I'd personally like to see included:

Math Mammoth

Beast Academy/AoPS

Hands On Equations

Zaccaro math supplements

RFWP/MCT for an alternative take on grammar/vocab instruction (not writing)

Bravewriter - maybe it's in there? Too lazy to look right now

Write from History - as a great supplement/addition to SOTW in the Grammar and even early Logic stage

CAP Writing & Rhetoric

 

One thought on updated curriculum lists - it would be super helpful if there was some kind of separation, note, tag, or symbol that differentiated religious and secular materials.  I think this is relevant not just for those who desire to avoid religious materials, but also for the many who use charter schools that will not pay for religious materials.  My main beef with the curriculum recommendations in current editions is that it is so heavy on providers that are hard to secularize and/or wouldn't make the cut for charter school funding.

[go_go_gadget]

I'd love to see the new edition contain a lot of the previous material, with much less of the prescriptive stuff that Norton made you put in, and with you as an editor and contributor. In a manner similar to the conference series this summer, there could be chapters contributed by people with expertise in special needs, in addressing the needs of highly accelerated students, and in learning styles (most of my family is very whole-to-parts, and sometimes WTM materials give the impression that our learning style is simply invalid).

 

I think it's actually good to include at least some resource suggestions along with the how-to.  Like Roadrunner, I value your suggestions, even when I don't end up choosing to follow them.  I wonder if maybe your "top picks" could be included in the book, but an online supplement could be maintained as well with a longer list of recommendations.  

 

This seems like the most effective approach. Since I've been on the forums, it's not occurred to me once to look in TWTM for curriculum recommendations. New products come out too frequently for book publication schedules, and most importantly, I find the discussion of materials invaluable. I don't think I've bought an educational product without first vetting here... ever, maybe. I'm sure there exist people who are not me and just want to be told what to use, so including a ''5 Most Popular'' list for each subject seems reasonable. 

 

What I've needed the most help with recently has been stuff that's too situation or state-specific to be useful in a book, like DE or the California A-G requirements, and those things, too, change too quickly for publication schedules. What I do back to TWTM for again and again are the fairly timeless parts: the information about how to teach, the general overview of classical ed, and the lit lists.  

 

I think the specific details are best left largely to the internet, and that the place of the book is to serve as a philosophical reference. Having said that, it occurs to me that every person answering this question is part of a self-selected group of people who research homeschooling materials online, so of course that's our preference. My guess, though, is that that's only going to become more common as more of my generation joins the ranks. 

 

[Crimson Wife]

 

I think the specific details are best left largely to the internet, and that the place of the book is to serve as a philosophical reference. Having said that, it occurs to me that every person answering this question is part of a self-selected group of people who research homeschooling materials online, so of course that's our preference. My guess, though, is that that's only going to become more common as more of my generation joins the ranks. 

 

I read TWTM and had homeschooled using it as a framework for a year or two before I realized this forum existed. I know a number of people who do TWTM "by the book" and don't frequent these boards.

 

I think that the 4th edition should include a resource list even if books do go OOP.

 

[shinyhappypeople]

If you include a section on learning disabilities, it would be helpful to have a few paragraphs on vision issues, signs to look for, vision therapy, and when to see a developmental optometrist.  

 

I'd like to see a section on transitioning back to a brick and mortar school.  Are there specific resources that are well-suited to quickly filling in academic gaps? 

 

Also, how about a chapter on self-education for those of us who are playing catch up?  What are the best resources available to help parents refresh or remediate our own academic gaps?  For example, Science Matters for science (obviously).  Someone on these boards suggested R&S 5 or 6 (can't remember which) for brushing up on grammar.  

[shinyhappypeople]

I read TWTM and had homeschooled using it as a framework for a year or two before I realized this forum existed. I know a number of people who do TWTM "by the book" and don't frequent these boards.

 

I think that the 4th edition should include a resource list even if books do go OOP.

 

:iagree:

 

When I started homeschooling six years ago, I knew NOTHING about curriculum.  I wasn't sure what made a curriculum useful (or not), where to find products, what I was looking for, nothing.   Even though I didn't use many of the official suggestions in TWTM, they served as a launch pad for further research and were immensely helpful in that regard.

[MotherGoose]

Information about what to do with early readers or kids who are very out of sync in their academic development--gifted in reading, perhaps, but resistant to writing. Also lists of age appropriate and reading level appropriate books for young children. I figured it out as I went, but it would be nice to have a list of books for a, say, 6 year old reading on a a 3-6th grade level.

 

Some "A day in the life" sorts of entries & schedules for various combinations of ages, including the disasters that come along and how to get through them.

[YsgolYGair]

I find this thread interesting.. I'm considering the finding a copy of the first edition in order to have FEWER curriculum recommendations, as I understand it's more about the process than about specific curriculums. 

 

If I were to suggest any, though, I think Math Mammoth needs a mention. It really is very good, and has my become my first choice over even Singapore and A Beka. I also think that something other than Spelling Workout should be mentioned. There are better programs out there, such as All About Spelling. 

 

 

[imagine.more]

I agree with others that what I most love about TWTM are the how-to's of building skills and studying content. I think this is something unique to TWTM and it does it so well. I also agree that curriculum suggestions ought not to be taken out entirely but rather just be sure to keep them in their place. 3/4ths of each chapter should be about the why and how of teaching that particular subject at that particular age, and then a short 1/4th section at the end listing recommended resources is perfectly appropriate, as it pretty much is already in the 3rd edition. That way those people who are looking for method can ignore the curriculum lists and those who need to find a get-it-done curriculum resource can still have that available. 

 

Along the lines of curriculum suggestions Pandia Press' REAL Science Odyssey and NOEO Science are both good solid classically minded curriculums that might be appropriate to recommend. Both are secular I believe. 

[barnwife]

 

 

 

That said...  I own the first and third editions of WTM, but the one that I've used the most is the first edition.  Back then, there weren't a lot of resources.  You were recommending selection of solid spine "textbooks" (my term, not yours, but that's how I think of them).  You were recommending that those not be the sole focus, but were to be enhanced and expanded by liberal use of many other books.  That idea was the best part of the book -- not the resource and recommendation lists.  I don't think I looked at those lists more than once or twice, but I read and re-read your essays on each grade and the use of the spines, outlining, the progression of skills, etc.  I may not follow everything exactly, but I refer to my old first edition every year for planning and for year-end evaluation.  It's become the frame for our homeschool journey. 

 

I'm nearly done with homeschooling, but you were there in the beginning and will be there in the end.  Not for the curriculum reviews and recommendations, but for the practical, thoroughly explained philosophy that has proven to be a flexible mainstay throughout our years.  Don't lose that or underestimate it. 

 

That's my 2.9 cents (exchange rate, eh?) ;)

 

 

Wanted to add another idea--I really wish you'd ditch Slow and Steady, Get Me Ready as your preschool recommendation. The problem is, I don't know what to replace it with, as a resource. Pls, no workbooks for under 5s. Maybe just suggest a great booklist, outdoor time, a sensory bin, household chores (you could list appropriate ones), a good set of blocks, some silks or cast off dress up clothes, etc. I do love the way you say play is important. Perhaps you could also write a paragraph or two on how to keep Really Littles busy while homeschooling Bigs.

 

Also, was wondering--in the 3rd edition, you DO mention the forums, right? They are invaluable, of course!

I wanted to come back and address what these poster said as someone new to HS. Our oldest will turn 5 soon. I read WTM the first time a few years ago and I loved the idea of spines and outlining. I've been collecting possible spines ever since then. It just seemed to click with what I tried to do as much as possible back in my public school teaching days and what I wanted for our children. The resource lists are fine and probably help many people. But, for me, in this day and age with curriculum easy to find online, the strength of the book is the "how-to" stuff.

 

So all that to say, certainly update the resource lists. As you know, you will never be able to include all worthy resources. So I want to see what you think is the best of the best, but WTM isn't a book I turn to for an exhaustive list (if there is such a thing). But please keep the focus on the practical stuff. 

 

And I totally agree with the pp about Slow and Steady Get me Ready. I checked it out from our library after seeing it in WTM. And I intensely disliked it on sight. I felt I was being talked down to in it. Most of the things were things I already did/would do without it.  It wasn't nearly as good as I wanted it to be.

[Nan in Mass]

Ug.  Just lost my long post.  The gist of it was that I would have been totally lost without specific book suggestions.  They were open-and-go, for the most part, which remained essential even after years of homeschooling experience.  It is absolutely astonishing how many useless or unusable books are out there, things that either were too much work for me or didn't teach my children anything.  With only a few exceptions, TWTM suggestions were the best.  Even when they didn't appear to be working, we tended to grow into them and discover that we were learning, it just wasn't something I thought was important until I discovered later that it was.  Thank goodness I followed as many of TWTM directions as I did.  I also want to say that I really liked the elementary and middle school science suggestions.  Those nature guides and nature journals taught my children so much.  The star book was fabulous.  Fun with Atoms and Molecules, or whatever that slim litttle book of chemistry experiments was called, explained chemistry to me, even after engineering chemistry.  The How blank Works books were lovely.  I know how the earth was first measured!  Youngest STEM child did them earlier than suggested and then moved on to other things, but I still think that they laid a good foundation.  I think perhaps optional things could be added, and perhaps more science reading for those who want more?  And I want to add a caveat to the Writing Strands post that says I haven't seen SWB's curriculum.  Probably it is better.  WS certainly wasn't perfect.

 

Nan

[kloumc]

I am so thankful for your book, The Well-Trained Mind!!! The first edition was pivotal as we were really just getting going and it gave me the confidence and direction I needed to home educate my children classically. I've referred back to this manual many times and purchased the second edition when it came out. THANK YOU!!!

 

To the topic at hand, I've always been surprised that you haven't recommended The Great Latin Adventure by Classical Legacy Press (www.classicallegacypress.com). In my opinion this is the BEST Latin primer available and it well prepared my students to move into either Wheelock's Latin or Latin Road (Barbara Beers) - I went different directions with each. Students may begin this two-year program as early as 3rd grade and they will meet with good success, or several have started this program in 5th or 6th grade and haven't found it juvenile at all.

 

In The Great Latin Adventure, the grammar lessons are logically incremental, the explanations are thorough (even for moms who have never had Latin instruction), there is a great derivative worksheet for each lesson, and the price is great. The author has the student translating rich sentences early on from Latin to English and also English to Latin - a very helpful skill to make sure they understand the grammar concepts. This program was so successful for us and for many other families I know.

[...................]

We are nearing high school so I wish that things like these would be discussed more:

 

Dual enrollmwnt in 11th/12th grade

Online and outsourced classes

 

 

Also:

Creative children who are more hands on and less academic ...what to cut out? What's the priority?

[...................]

Oh- and spelling workout was a complete flop here; twice.

 

My older son survived with sequential spelling and my really spelling challenged dd is really benefitting from apples and pears.

[Laurel-in-CA]

Spelling Workout is usable - but we usually skipped about 1/2 the exercises, and we didn't do it if the kid tested past their school "grade" for that year. May not be worth the $$. OTOH, I seem to have fairly natural spellers. Spelling *tests* and spelling in actual writing, though, have turned out to be very different things.

 

If you're looking for out-of-the-box math reading, I have to recommend Julie in SD's site, www.livingmath.net - she even has a unit study on the history of math available, as well as by-topic and by-age reading recommendations. We have loved her suggestions, especially for the elementary grades.

 

We found CAP's logic series much more do-able than Traditional Logic. We tried TL 3 different times with 3 different kids and just couldn't get ourselves through even the first book. Maybe that's my failing, but we've done CAP's Art of Argument and Argument Builder with much less angst and argument. 8-)

 

I want to recommend The Human Odyssey series (3 vol.) plus American Odyssey as middle school history spines. We've enjoyed their narrative style; they have sidebars that include stories from the epics, cameos of famous people, etc. They're outline-able, much more so than Kingfisher, although they're short on specific dates for a timeline. You can get the workbooks for years 1 & 2 but not year 3 or american history....but then, how much more do you need if you're really outlining each chapter? Together they make a 4-year program, 3 years of world history, 1 year of american and we fill in with biographies and historical fiction as well as short research stuff.

 

Unlike other folks, I do not have STEM kids...I seem to have artsy kids. I am happy to just get through science and have no insights to add in that dept. We've tried a *lot* of latin programs over the years and I like CAP's stuff best for interest and ease of teaching. We'll be hitting Latin Alive 2 this next year.

 

I only have the 1st edition, which I bought the year I came out. It has been lent many times but always retrieved, full of my post-its and those of my friends. THANK you.

[Julie Smith]

I'm not sure you still list mailing addresses for company's. But if you do, I recommend you don't. It takes up lots of space, and I'm not sure anyone actually sends snailmail to company's asking for information.

[shernandez]

I just re-read a few parts of WTM while going over planning:) I still love your book. Anyway, I have found CLE a great curriculum. We use it for both math and language arts. We recently switched from Saxon. DD hated it, but now finds math one of her favorite subjects. I find it to be more advanced than Saxon, too. As for science, we love Elemental science, the classical series that actually follows the cycle you recommend.

I would love to see more Spanish and. Greek resources listed. I haven't really found any decent early elementary programs.

 

Along with other posters, I'm more concerned with methods and tips than curriculum suggestions, although I really love those, too. I do like how they are listed right after you talk about the subject. I am super excited for a new edition:)

[Chrysalis Academy]

Oh yeah, other Logic Stage resources for history:  In addition to the Human Odyssey/American Odyssey mentioned above, I think that the OUP series The World in Ancient Times and The Medieval and Early Modern World deserve a shout out.  They are the perfect next step up from SOTW for middle grade students or even early high school.

[dancingmama]

I'm going to second someone's suggestion to do a high school only book with info on how to transition as well as all the other useful information you have in there on how to get them ready for the rest of their life.

 

I also agree that I prefer the "how-to" and leave the recommendations to an online format. Perhaps a dedicated website with information being updated periodically and, of course, information to this forum. There are so many resources these days that are available that it would be hard and tedious to put them all in a book format. Otherwise, you might consider more of a chart format for recommendations (ala like Cathy Duffy) where you can describe which resources are better for different type of learners.

[Hedgehog]

Seconding the suggestions for a chapter focussing on SEN issues, perhaps forms of dyslexia in particular, and how you can teach programmes like WWE and WWS to dyslexic students without causing hair pulling and tears; and a request for a greater depth of explanation for the more diffuse subjects in the Rhetoric stage such as English and History - how to teach, what to discuss, how to mark papers, etc.

 

A shout-out for British programmes - MEP (Mathematics Enhancement Programme), "Apples and Pears" from The Promethean Trust, Galore Park for languages (Latin, French and Spanish) and History, Cambridge Latin, and Jolly Phonics. MEP is a hit for my dyslexic kid, where the others are thriving on Saxon. Galore Park provides an excellent start to languages, especially Latin, which Cambridge can then take to GCSE level.

 

Can I also suggest the possibility of a list of memorisations, perhaps tied to English, History, or both? I can't find that you have lists which would cover a whole year. When I started out, I found it very difficult to think of what my kids could memorise and I spent a long time researching to find good ones. Memorisation wasn't part of my education.

 

Finally, thanks so much for writing it and revising it - TWTM was the first book about homeschooling that really spoke to me in those early days when I just wondered what the heck I had taken on, trying to teach my kids myself. Nowadays I'm just wondering how the heck I can legitimately escape for 5 minutes of peace, since at any one time I am being asked to soothe the wounded breast of an offended 7 year old, spell 'acknowledge' for my dyslexic 13 year old, explain the complexities of DNA to a 15 year old, and discuss the possibilities of dissertation subjects with my nearly 21 year old. I comfort myself that I'm not alone in this, however! :)