When your friends insult homeschoolers

[8filltheheart]

My niece is a 4th grade teacher and would make comments about the failure of homeschooling bc of what she saw in her classroom when kids came back in. I asked her who she thought was most likely to enroll kids in ps....the homeschoolers who believe they are doing well at home and their family is thriving in home education or the homeschoolers who are struggling with something (school or life) and their families have decided that home education is not currently the best choice?

[creekland]

Probably getting a bit off topic but I wanted to comment on deadlines. I was told I had to accept things late due to legal repercussions. Parents at my school would lawyer up when it came to their kids grade. Also I had to let students retake tests semesters after the class ended. i would completely laugh at the ridiculousness of this. How are we preparing our kids for college and career by not honoring deadlines as well as retaking tests at will whenever. I have taught at the college level, these kids are in for a rude awakening in a few years.

 

What my high schoolers did learn is they can just run to the principal to get their grade changed. In my first year of teaching, a student who slacked all year was getting an F in chemistry. He asked what he could do to pass the class. I told him that he could do the project I assigned in third quarter. He opted not to do it ( the project might have taken an hour tops). I failed him at 59.6 %. Kid went to the principal and she changed his grade to passing.

 

It's not all that much different here.  I don't recall the principal or guidance changing a grade themselves, but they certainly come down hard on teachers to do so - or to make sure there are few failures to start with.

 

My niece is a 4th grade teacher and would make comments about the failure of homeschooling bc of what she saw in her classroom when kids came back in. I asked her who she thought was most likely to enroll kids in ps....the homeschoolers who believe they are doing well at home and their family is thriving in home education or the homeschoolers who are struggling with something (school or life) and their families have decided that home education is not currently the best choice?

 

In 4th grade I could see this being true.  By high school we usually get those who only intended to hs up through 8th.  It's from that crowd that I see the entire bell curve.  There aren't all that many data points though comparatively.  I think many in our area who homeschool do it all once they start.

[8filltheheart]

In 4th grade I could see this being true. By high school we usually get those who only intended to hs up through 8th. It's from that crowd that I see the entire bell curve. There aren't all that many data points though comparatively. I think many in our area who homeschool do it all once they start.

That is the reason the data would not be relevant as meaningful anyway. Homeschoolers are self-selecting in the first place. What distinguishes families who plan on homeschooling only through 8th from those who plan on through 12th from those who only plan yr to yr and put their kids are in and out of both environments? Then there are co-ops, cottage schools, online classes. I personally think categorizing homeschoolers together as a group is as accurate as lumping all ps students into a single profile.

[creekland]

 I personally think categorizing homeschoolers together as a group is as accurate as lumping all ps students into a single profile.

 

That's a given!  I just wish it were obvious to all.  ;)

 

I can't even categorize my own three kids under one umbrella unless that umbrella is pretty wide - such as, say, successful with homeschooling (to the point they did it).   :coolgleamA:

[Reefgazer]

I like the subtleness of posting a grammatically corrected sentence as a response, but really, your sweet revenge will come when you produce obviously better educated, obviously more polite, obviously more engaged young adults.  Which you could point out, but then that would be obviously impolite, LOL.

"One of the greatest things about SB277 passing is that all the "concerned parents," who have an honorary doctorate from Google's college of medicine, will now be homeschooling their children and creating smaller classes for my children to succeed! Plus without any true schooling and socialization, my kids will be leaps and bounds above theirs when it comes time to move into the professional world. It's a win win!"

 

This is a Facebook post written by my next door neighbor a few days ago in reference to the California vaccine bill (SB277) that was just signed into law, the most stringent in the United States. It dictates that no child may attend any school, daycare, preschool, or aftercare program unless they have received each and every required immunization.

 

My neighbor is a friend, or at least we thought so. We have been friends with he and his wife for the last 7 years. Our kids play together and we babysit them. My kids love their whole family. This post was such a slap in the face, not because of his stance on SB277, but because of his insults to homeschoolers, and therefore my kids. He knows how bright and articulate they are, how kind to their children, everything. Yet he posted this on Facebook knowing my husband and I would see it, and perpetuating this to tons of people. A number of people I know personally liked his post.

 

My kids are young enough that they are not on Facebook and we obviously didn't tell them he had written this. They would be devastated, and knowing that is kind of what hurts me the most about this. Where we live, homeschooling is an extremely uncommon choice and we know that, but to see that your friends think this about your children - that your children will grow up to be inferior and unsuccessful, particularly when they constantly tell you how well-mannered your children are, how articulate, etc. - and that they are willing to publicly insult us this way . . .

 

I guess I just wanted to share with people who would understand. It's upsetting, especially on a day when we celebrate freedom.

 

[alicai]

Update for those who were interested:  my friend, the wife, spoke to my husband in the front yard about it last night. Not sure why she didn't say anything to me when I was out there.  She apologized and asked what her husband could do to make it right, and dh responded with acknowledge it/apologize. She then sent me a text late last night apologizing and saying how offensive the post was on multiple levels. She said that in his mind he was being funny and had zero idea why it was offensive. From him, we have heard not a word.

[lllll]

nm

[8filltheheart]

Well, retracting his statement on facebook would be a start. Public apology would be another.  Both are rather obvious when associated with sincerity.

[MomatHWTK]

IMO, I'd let it go at this point. Life is too short to hold onto offenses. 

[creekland]

Update for those who were interested:  my friend, the wife, spoke to my husband in the front yard about it last night. Not sure why she didn't say anything to me when I was out there.  She apologized and asked what her husband could do to make it right, and dh responded with acknowledge it/apologize. She then sent me a text late last night apologizing and saying how offensive the post was on multiple levels. She said that in his mind he was being funny and had zero idea why it was offensive. From him, we have heard not a word.

 

He probably still doesn't see why it's offensive.  Many who engage in this sort of thing don't and all of us are likely guilty of it at some point or another when we're either not thinking or not informed on the subject at hand.  I'll admit I had negative thoughts about homeschooling in my younger life - until it started to appeal to me.  We all change some as we age and gain experience.

 

At this point I really would let it go or, in his mind, his stereotype will start to also include "overly sensitive."  The best you can hope for is a chip out of the stereotypical ice - not a whole melt.  Melting major bits of ice takes time and patience.

[HSmomof2]

He probably still doesn't see why it's offensive. Many who engage in this sort of thing don't and all of us are likely guilty of it at some point or another when we're either not thinking or not informed on the subject at hand. I'll admit I had negative thoughts about homeschooling in my younger life - until it started to appeal to me. We all change some as we age and gain experience.

 

At this point I really would let it go or, in his mind, his stereotype will start to also include "overly sensitive." The best you can hope for is a chip out of the stereotypical ice - not a whole melt. Melting major bits of ice takes time and patience.

I agree that I would let it go at this point to keep peace with neighbors. Even if he never apologizes, the decent thing for him to do would be to delete his post and say nothing more about it.

[frogger]

Sometimes I need to ask myself what good will come of my response. I thought I remember you saying that the wife would be appalled at his statement. I don't know sometimes people with loudmouth spouses are lonely. As long as he never makes comments to your children and never watches your children etc (I wouldn't allow that) then I say allow that friendship. You don't have to be close to them or specifically him depending on the situation but you can be kind.

 

People don't overcome differences by withdrawing from the world nor do they overcome differences by fighting fire with fire. I hope to prove many people wrong about many things by rising above it so to speak.

[HS Mom in NC]

"One of the greatest things about SB277 passing is that all the "concerned parents," who have an honorary doctorate from Google's college of medicine, will now be homeschooling their children and creating smaller classes for my children to succeed! Plus without any true schooling and socialization, my kids will be leaps and bounds above theirs when it comes time to move into the professional world. It's a win win!"

 

 

Also, I think it's tempting to address the fundamental problem with "conveyor belt" and "one size fits all" education that ps has to be. His post implies it, so why not point it own while oozing with sympathy for his plight?  Something like, " Yes, I can imagine you would want smaller classes for your children because the typical classroom in a ps has far too many children in it if you want your children to have the most effective education possible.  It really is ridiculous what we expect from ps teachers with all those kids who all have various ability levels and different levels of support from home.  Your quote seems to imply too many children are currently scrambling for too few crumbs.  All the more reason to homeschool with excellent content and rigor so they can enjoy the feast of ideas that a Classical Education at home provides." 

[alicai]

Sometimes I need to ask myself what good will come of my response. I thought I remember you saying that the wife would be appalled at his statement. I don't know sometimes people with loudmouth spouses are lonely. As long as he never makes comments to your children and never watches your children etc (I wouldn't allow that) then I say allow that friendship. You don't have to be close to them or specifically him depending on the situation but you can be kind.

 

People don't overcome differences by withdrawing from the world nor do they overcome differences by fighting fire with fire. I hope to prove many people wrong about many things by rising above it so to speak.

I agree. It's very important to me to respond to anything with integrity and I feel that I have done that. We hosted his wife and children last night with grace and without mentioning anything about it and we would continue to be kind. I said what I wanted to say and I don't expect that he will ever apologize, and I'm ok. I also won't forget what has happened here. I do agree that his wife is lonely. I think she is often in the position of having to apologize for his behavior, and that is no fun.

[frogger]

Yes, in the masses of replies I had missed your update somehow. Good job keeping your head.

[RootAnn]

I hope the husband is led to see the error of his post, especially because your children do enjoy spending time there.

 

I just wanted to add that I have had a similar situation with a (now former-) neighbor who I thought was a friend. Her son is the same age as my eldest. She'd commented favorably on our kids & had always seemed to enjoy when her son hung out around the neighborhood with my kids. One day, while discussing the decision of a mutual acquaintance of ours to pull her (very-advanced-for-the-local-school) children out, the neighbor said something about that it was the death knell for this acquaintance's kids in terms of social behavior and that they would be pariahs with no friends. I was shocked as she went onto extoll how backward the children would become without an opportunity for dances like Prom or daily interaction with peers.  :confused1:

 

I excused myself as soon as politely possible and went home with my backward socially-unacceptable children. My DH referred to that moment as when she showed her Bilbo Face. She's since moved, so I don't see her often anymore. Whenever I see her, I remember her narrow-minded comments that day. I'm not sure she even thought about what she was implying about my kids when she predicted social doomsday for our acquaintance's kids. (Now, that acquaintance is a friend of mine & her kids are doing just fine, thank-you-very-much.)  :hat:

[idnib]

I excused myself as soon as politely possible and went home with my backward socially-unacceptable children. My DH referred to that moment as when she showed her Bilbo Face.

 

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Mrs.Wilson]

I'd probably say something because the generalizations would irritate me even though I agree with the basic idea.  One-issue homeschoolers who are homeschooling for entirely non-academic reasons do concern me and I think that's a worthwhile discussion to have. Homeschooling isn't just about being antivax or avoiding teh gays, it's also choosing take on the responsibility to educate your children yourself. But your friend's statement is so negative and one-sided that it isn't helpful at all and I think it's worth saying something.

 

I just have to ask... Are there really people that homeschool to "avoid the gays"?

[Slache]

I just have to ask... Are there really people that homeschool to "avoid the gays"?

Yes. We are very conservative christians and often tend to hang out with other conservative christians and I've heard some say the strangest things. I know a family that keeps their children home to keep them away from many different types of people, homosexuals being one.

[momto2Cs]

Ouch!  I am so sorry you had to read that. It would be very upsetting. I have pretty thick skin, but I also have a hard time keeping my mouth shut (for better or worse). I think I would send them a message and let them know that you weren't sure if their post was directed at you but it was hurtful. 

 

Last year a friend of my daughter told my kids that her parents thought that homeschooling is stupid and that kids who are homeschooled are essentially doomed. My dd was very upset. I spoke to the mom and said that she was absolutely entitled to opinions about homeschooling, my parenting, my children's quirkiness (both of my kids have LD's), but that I would hope she would refrain from doing it in front of her kids or publicly.   The ironic thing is that her kids spent practically their entire summer vacation at my house doing school with us. They read great books. Made magnificent artwork. Did spectacular science. Played tons of math and reading games. They loved it, and the parents gave them free reign to pass the day at my house. Their house is collaged from stem to stern with last summer's learning. 

 

The mom was very apologetic (and obviously embarrassed) and has made amends in many different ways. In these instances the only way I can see to fix it is through honest communication. Either that or you have to just end your relationship, otherwise it will always be hanging over your friendship. 

 

Can I send MY kids there? Pretty please?

[daijobu]

 She said that in his mind he was being funny and had zero idea why it was offensive. From him, we have heard not a word.

 

 

So now you know what he really thinks of homeschoolers, and by extension you.

[idnib]

Can I send MY kids there? Pretty please?

 

Ahem. The line forms to the left.

[Slojo]

I do think that ps teachers see the other side of homeschooling--the side where it didn't work for whatever reason. Also, from what I can tell, the "studies" that claim that homeschoolers have better achievement scores compared to traditional schoolers are flawed at best.

 

This is true. The achievement claims of homeschoolers are flawed at best. But that doesn't give individuals opposed to homeschooling free reign to make unsubstantiated claims. At best, both sides could say, "The research on homeschooling is quite thin. Difficult to make rigorous or definitive statements either way about. What has been my experience is X..."  And then the neighbor of the original OP, if he had any integrity, would have to account for his positive experiences with the OP and her children in his assessment of homeschooling. 

 

Some teachers also refuse to acknowledge what they do NOT see -- many, many successful homeschoolers. It is just as faulty thinking to assume that because you've seen "all the horror stories (again, the success stories either don't enroll in school or you just didn't realize that they were homeschooled because "nothing out-of-the-ordinary" alerted you to that fact)," that that's all there is. It's analogous to ER doctors or high-risk obstetricians. If all you see all day are gun-shot victims and high-risk pregnancies, then it's going to skew your view -- and you have to counter that by reminding or re-educating yourself to recall that the vast majority of individuals are not in the category of patients you encounter.

[G5052]

Some teachers also refuse to acknowledge what they do NOT see -- many, many successful homeschoolers. It is just as faulty thinking to assume that because you've seen "all the horror stories (again, the success stories either don't enroll in school or you just didn't realize that they were homeschooled because "nothing out-of-the-ordinary" alerted you to that fact)," that that's all there is. It's analogous to ER doctors or high-risk obstetricians. If all you see all day are gun-shot victims and high-risk pregnancies, then it's going to skew your view -- and you have to counter that by reminding or re-educating yourself to recall that the vast majority of individuals are not in the category of patients you encounter.

 

Yes, the outliers get the attention, unfortunately.

 

Whenever my colleagues at the community college complain about homeschoolers who can't manage deadlines and don't know how to behave in class, I ask them how many of their other students who weren't homeschooled have the same sorts of problems. The reality is that many of our students are shocked by the demands of college. The public schools are very liberal on make-up and retakes, and we are not. So that causes all kinds of problems even with the public school kids. And they tolerate behavior that I don't want in my classroom. So that requires some adjustment too.

[Amira]

I just have to ask... Are there really people that homeschool to "avoid the gays"?

There are definitely people out there who will start homeschooling because they think the recent SC decision will mean schools have to promote a gay lifestyle (apparently across the curriculum). I've seen this discussed in the past week on religiously conservative homeschooling sites.

[fairfarmhand]

Update for those who were interested:  my friend, the wife, spoke to my husband in the front yard about it last night. Not sure why she didn't say anything to me when I was out there.  She apologized and asked what her husband could do to make it right, and dh responded with acknowledge it/apologize. She then sent me a text late last night apologizing and saying how offensive the post was on multiple levels. She said that in his mind he was being funny and had zero idea why it was offensive. From him, we have heard not a word.

 

Imagine if the comment had been about minorities, Muslims or gay people. Would it have been "funny" then?

[LynnG in Arizona]

My feelings would have been hurt too, and I agree that your neighbor's post was unnecessarily inflammatory and offensive.

 

I'm glad that you'll be able to maintain your friendship with his wife, and I would encourage you to extend as much grace as possible to the neighbor.

 

Sometimes, these things take many years to reverse.  Sometimes they'll never reverse at all, and that's ok.  Just keep giving your children the best education you can, and remember that this is a marathon - not a sprint.  The results of your homeschooling will take a long, long time to become apparent, but they will eventually bear fruit.

 

I too am fortunate enough to have some serious perspective at this point.  But when I was a brand new homeschooler, full of unspoken doubts and insecurities, I was cornered by someone in my husband's profession, someone who was literally at the top of his field and extremely well educated and respected.  He flat out told me that I was crazy to be homeschooling my children and would very likely ruin them.  Outwardly I remained calm, but inwardly I was devastated.

 

Against all odds, we remained in touch through the years and would get together in person every year or so.  He and my husband maintained a very warm professional relationship.  And slowly, my young elementary age children grew and absolutely prospered as we homeschooled.  Our friend has watched their progress with interest that morphed into enthusiasm; both are confident, articulate young ladies who attended university on merit scholarships and are now young professionals.

 

This same person who warned me that I was ruining my kids by homeschooling them has done a complete 180, and now speaks admiringly about the benefits of home education!  (And I respect him very much for being a big enough person to change his mind so completely and graciously.) 

 

This may or may not ever happen with your neighbor . . . but it doesn't really matter.  Just keep doing your best, and one day the results will speak for themselves!

[pitterpatter]

I feel like the comment reeks of insecurity on his part.

 

Public school...private school...home school...none guarantee children will be leaps and bounds ahead of their peers.

[alicai]

My feelings would have been hurt too, and I agree that your neighbor's post was unnecessarily inflammatory and offensive.

 

I'm glad that you'll be able to maintain your friendship with his wife, and I would encourage you to extend as much grace as possible to the neighbor.

 

Sometimes, these things take many years to reverse.  Sometimes they'll never reverse at all, and that's ok.  Just keep giving your children the best education you can, and remember that this is a marathon - not a sprint.  The results of your homeschooling will take a long, long time to become apparent, but they will eventually bear fruit.

 

I too am fortunate enough to have some serious perspective at this point.  But when I was a brand new homeschooler, full of unspoken doubts and insecurities, I was cornered by someone in my husband's profession, someone who was literally at the top of his field and extremely well educated and respected.  He flat out told me that I was crazy to be homeschooling my children and would very likely ruin them.  Outwardly I remained calm, but inwardly I was devastated.

 

Against all odds, we remained in touch through the years and would get together in person every year or so.  He and my husband maintained a very warm professional relationship.  And slowly, my young elementary age children grew and absolutely prospered as we homeschooled.  Our friend has watched their progress with interest that morphed into enthusiasm; both are confident, articulate young ladies who attended university on merit scholarships and are now young professionals.

 

This same person who warned me that I was ruining my kids by homeschooling them has done a complete 180, and now speaks admiringly about the benefits of home education!  (And I respect him very much for being a big enough person to change his mind so completely and graciously.) 

 

This may or may not ever happen with your neighbor . . . but it doesn't really matter.  Just keep doing your best, and one day the results will speak for themselves!

Lynn, thank you for this lovely encouragement :)

[Bluegoat]

If someone has a particular idea about something, if can often take more than a single example to make them reconsider it.  Most people realize there are exceptions, so they need to see that their generalization was wrong.  I'll bet he doesn't really think of it as offensive because he just doesn't think of you as one of those people.  It might even be that he's had some sort of experience that makes him think that "those people" are a larger group.

 

It also sounds to me like he was specifically commenting on people who homeschool mainly so they can get out of vaccinations, and it's probably true that those people represent a particular demographic within the homeschooling community (or maybe two demographics,) and his thoughts when appplied to those groups might be more true than the general homeschooling population.

[LynnG in Arizona]

 

 

Public school...private school...home school...none guarantee children will be leaps and bounds ahead of their peers.

 

 

For the record, I agree with this statement too.  I was fortunate to get a truly excellent public school education, but I realize that public school opportunities are extremely variable, both then and now.  And likewise, I've never thought that homeschooling was an inevitable guarantee of a superlative education.

[SKL]

I might have posted a comment like, "is this your observation about homeschooled kids that you know?"  Without being insulting, it might have prompted him to delete or edit his obnoxious post.

 

Just yesterday I had a fleeting thought of posting on facebook about judgmental parents.  A friend of mine had made a point to comment about how her 9yo is still in a big fancy car seat and was getting all high on herself.  "I care so much for my kids' lives!"  Really?  Who doesn't?  Would you like me to make a post against some of your parenting choices I don't agree with?  But you'd unfriend me if I did that.  Ugh.  (I did not actually say any of this.)

[daijobu]

This is one of the reasons I stopped reading facebook.  Also because Cal Newport told me to.  

[alicai]

Having just read an article about the whole vaccine bill in CA, I have a question. Why, if religious and personal exemptions are being disemboweled, can homeschoolers still opt out of vaccines? Does this come back to the idea that homeschooled children are kept indoors all day long somehow?

It's a good question and I suspect the answer is yes. What about all the homeschool groups? If this isn't repealed, it probably won't be long before it's expanded.

[Arcadia]

If someone has a particular idea about something, if can often take more than a single example to make them reconsider it. Most people realize there are exceptions, so they need to see that their generalization was wrong.

:iagree:

There are people who think that all good outcomes are outliers and it takes a certain amount of outliers before they change their viewpoint.

Another expression I heard too often is "you are so lucky". The person who say it is usually over exhausted or frustrated and mean no harm.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

My lord. I meant disallowed, not disemboweled. Stupid autocorrect.

 

First laugh-out-loud moment of my day. Thanks Dialectica :p

[daijobu]

My lord. I meant disallowed, not disemboweled. Stupid autocorrect.

 

You gotta be careful with that scary pirate avatar of yours, lol.  

[zoobie]

Ahem. The line forms to the left.

Our kids are homeschooled. They don't know how to form lines. ;)

[idnib]

Our kids are homeschooled. They don't know how to form lines. ;)

 

How could I forget?  :D

[Lucy the Valiant]

I, too, would have been very taken aback by that public comment, and you did well, OP, to keep the connection to your friend (the wife) open, in spite of her husband's rudeness.

 

As someone whose life experience with home schooled people had been consistently negative for years, I can also (maybe?) understand his apprehension and cynicism toward the whole arrangement. I have thanked God many times for the "slap upside my head" that showed me the beautiful and promising end of the home school spectrum; I've been so grateful for the chance to have this life journey with our kids, and I would have never even given it a second look without some intervention.

 

He probably does consider your successful family an "exception" to the rule. 

[Mrs. B]

Our kids are homeschooled. They don't know how to form lines. ;)

Our kids are homeschooled. They don't know which direction is left.

[BlsdMama]

I would respond:

 

I'm SO glad you're glad! Anything that results in children succeeding is a win in my book and I'm just as happy for the public school kiddos succeeding as my own! After all we all make up the village.

 

Passive agressive? Maybe....

[AimeeM]

It's a good question and I suspect the answer is yes. What about all the homeschool groups? If this isn't repealed, it probably won't be long before it's expanded.

I would imagine so, even through no fault of the school. Most/many catholic homeschool groups here meet on campus of a local Catholic private school; the private schools very graciously allow us to use a portion of their property that may be unused otherwise during the week, in exchange for a very, very small amount of money (which is only charged for insurance reasons).

I would imagine, that since the school/church has to have us on their insurance in some capacity, that whatever laws THEY (the school) are required to follow, would pass down to the co-ops using the school grounds? Not sure, but I could see it happening.

[Arcadia]

I would imagine, that since the school/church has to have us on their insurance in some capacity, that whatever laws THEY (the school) are required to follow, would pass down to the co-ops using the school grounds? Not sure, but I could see it happening.

My kids homeschool weekday class is hosted at a church. Their German class is hosted at a Christian private school which has a chapel in the school. Both German class and homeschool class has their own insurance coverage.

 

YMCA after school care as well as some private clubs have programs at the local public schools. Insurance is by the Y and the outside private companies.

 

I think it depends on the individual rental agreement what kind of liabilities are covered.

 

The only thing that we had to follow was the nut free policy of the location. If the class is hosted in a nut free location, we don't eat food containing nuts there. If the location is not nut free, my kids can eat nuts there.

[Ausmumof3]

My lord. I meant disallowed, not disemboweled. Stupid autocorrect.

I read that about six times to figure out if it really said that!!! Haha