The "Matthew Effect": Is 3rd Grade Make it or Break it?

[TheAttachedMama]

Do you agree with this article?  Why or why not?

http://education.penelopetrunk.com/2013/12/03/third-grade-is-a-crucial-decision-point-for-homeschooling/

 

My son has some possible dyslexia.   He will be behind in 3rd grade.   He will not be "reading to learn" next year...and don't even get me started on his writing.  

 

Sometimes I feel that catching him up is this impossible task.   We work as hard as we can.  And we may advance a grade level....but other "typical" kids are also advancing in that subject.   How can we ever get caught up?   I feel doomed to always be behind.   (This is me talking after getting his standardized test scores back.  He did really well in math and science, not so well in spelling and writing.)   I have to admit that articles like this scare me half to death! 

 

Is 3rd Grade "make it or break it"?  

 

Can a homeschooling mama avoid the Mathew Effect?   If so, how?

[Rosie_0801]

Nobody's life is over at grade 3.

 

 

And if your child is behind in grade 3, well sometimes that's the luck of the draw and there's nothing you can do about it. Not everyone can be the best. You keep your nose to the grindstone in the important areas and plot ways to avoid competing where you can't finish the race for later on when the time comes.

 

I used to read the high school board here, even before my kid was school aged for that reason. I thought to myself, no matter how interesting my kid turns out, there will be someone around here who can help me navigate it, because, quite frankly, I don't even think it's possible for my kid to be as interesting as some I've read about on here. And for the most part, they've all gone off to be reasonably useful and content with life so probably mine will too.

[Arcadia]

  I have to admit that articles like this scare me half to death! 

 

What I get from the Time article you link is this portion which is where parents have the advantage over poorly managed schools.

 

"But the Matthew effect has an important upside: well-timed interventions can reverse its direction, turning a vicious cycle into a virtuous one.

...

The ideal alternative: teachers and parents would collaborate on the creation of an individualized learning plan for each third-grader who needs help with reading — a plan that might involve specialized instruction, tutoring or summer school. Most important is taking action, researchers say, and not assuming that reading problems will work themselves out."

[Rosie_0801]

Yeah. We can get on with the job instead of arguing with an establishment where no one has the authority to fix the problem.

[alisoncooks]

Interesting.  I'm not sure what I think about the articles.

 

I will say, the concerns listed by the OP are some of the same thoughts I've had for my daughter (her spelling and writing skills are sorely lacking because our main focus for so long was getting her literate).  I was very concerned with where we were/are, especially compared to peers.  (She just finished grade 3, btw.)

 

For us, there was a pivotal leap in ability midway through 3rd grade.  I am willing to say that it was LARGELY developmental, as it followed 2 solid months of non-schooling (not unschooling...but non-schooling because of a family health crisis).  With that, and with things I've read, I think it's not unusual for children to make that leap around 8ish/3rd grade.  And I'm not sure how that fits into the scenarios described in the articles.

[Tsuga]

I think the fact that the child is not treated as being behind, and not stigmatized, gives homeschoolers a tremendous advantage over public schooled children who are behind. Just being treated as an individual who has great potential, and not as an obstacle to classroom performance, is a huge thing. So I think yes, you have a great advantage there for your son.

 

That said, I also think that the reason 3rd grade is a turning point is because that is the age where learning disabilities show up. Until all the kids are eight, you don't really know who is just an early bloomer--precocious--and who is truly gifted, who is a late-bloomer and who has a learning disability. You don't know who's been prepped and who hasn't. Or you do know, but that doesn't show up in the statistics.

 

When all of your kids are eight, and you have some who, after three years of instruction and having passed their 7th year, still can't read, you can be reasonably sure there is something going on there besides "just not ready yet".

 

At the same time, you say he won't "read to learn" in third grade. Your son is seven. Is he still seven now?

 

I will tell you about my daughter. She's an October birthday. She also went to school in three different languages before entering PS in 1st grade. In first grade, she was to turn seven within 1.5 months. She was sounding words out. She didn't like reading. I was kind of sad, to be honest, because I'd been a precocious reader at age three and it truly never occurred to me that my kids wouldn't also be precocious.

 

The first month, she tested at grade level. Just. She was dead last in her class. Inspired by other kids her age reading, and wanting to be like them (this has always worked for us), she decided to check out chapter books and read them. All of them. She finally had motivation, which was social cachet. Whatever. Still, keep in mind, this is a child who didn't get beyond CVC until she was seven. I kind of forced her to get basic phonics down by first, but it was hard. And the lessons weren't pretty. It was--"you don't have to love it, you just have to do it." Still, I wasn't super dedicated, because we went to the German school at the time and they don't push reading until eight, because to them, save the most gifted, you really aren't doing that much with what you read anyway, and you should be outside in the trees.

 

By the end of first grade, when she was a solid 7 years, 9 months old, she was a great reader for her grade, average for her age. However, she could compare herself to much younger children and this helped her see herself as competent.

 

Now she has received consistently top scores in reading throughout the year and is reading at a 6th grade level. She can technically read higher but she can't answer higher-order thinking questions.

 

What I learned about this is that not all kids who love to read, learn to love it just because they're natural readers or naturally quick learners.

 

With my second, she is just now six. She is reading CVC words. She is on grade level. She does what they ask in school (immersion, so two languages simultaneously). She has some friends who are advanced. She also is reading characters. I told the teacher to be patient, told her about my older kid, told her we have done the German system up to now and we are going to stick with that timeline and will ask for help at eight if needed.

 

I really do believe that the confidence in being able to get ahead and determination to work when ready is super important.

 

[TheAttachedMama]

I think the fact that the child is not treated as being behind, and not stigmatized, gives homeschoolers a tremendous advantage over public schooled children who are behind. Just being treated as an individual who has great potential, and not as an obstacle to classroom performance, is a huge thing. So I think yes, you have a great advantage there for your son.

 

That said, I also think that the reason 3rd grade is a turning point is because that is the age where learning disabilities show up. Until all the kids are eight, you don't really know who is just an early bloomer--precocious--and who is truly gifted, who is a late-bloomer and who has a learning disability. You don't know who's been prepped and who hasn't. Or you do know, but that doesn't show up in the statistics.

 

When all of your kids are eight, and you have some who, after three years of instruction and having passed their 7th year, still can't read, you can be reasonably sure there is something going on there besides "just not ready yet".

 

At the same time, you say he won't "read to learn" in third grade. Your son is seven. Is he still seven now?

My son is 8.  His birthday is late November.   He will be NINE for a lot of third grade.  Uggggghhhhh.

[TheAttachedMama]

...

The ideal alternative: teachers and parents would collaborate on the creation of an individualized learning plan for each third-grader who needs help with reading — a plan that might involve specialized instruction, tutoring or summer school. Most important is taking action, researchers say, and not assuming that reading problems will work themselves out."

 

I get that.  But what about the kids who get specialized instruction and tutoring, but still struggle in a key subject (like reading) by the third grade.   How do they ever catch up in all of the other related subjects that you need to read for?

[EKT]

I think if you're a homeschooling parent, you don't have to worry about this at all! Homeschoolers have the luxury of learning at our own pace, on our own schedule. So what if it turns out your son is "behind"? Think creatively about the situation and do whatever you need to do in order to do right by your son. Maybe that means you get him tested by a professional for the possible dyslexia and learn about how to help him through it (and/or solicit professional assistance). Maybe that means you give him five years to complete high school instead of the typical four, adding an additional year to his overall educational plan. (All you have to do in that case is get creative with his high school transcript to make it look like he opted to take a gap year.) If your state forces you to take standardized tests (mine doesn't, but I know some do), accept that his test scores might appear "low" to someone who doesn't understand or respect your son's personal learning time table. But who cares? Throw the scores out! (It's not like these scores are being shipped off to colleges; no one who really matters needs to know his scores!)

 

Don't let other people make you operate from a place of fear or view your child as "broken" or "damaged." As a homeschooler, you have the freedom to guide your son through his education in a way that respects his individuality. (In other words, I refuse to believe any person on this earth is doomed to failure by age eight!) While it's possible you may face more challenges than the "average" parent, it's absolutely something you can work through. It will be all right! :-)

[Arcadia]

I get that.  But what about the kids who get specialized instruction and tutoring, but still struggle in a key subject (like reading) by the third grade.   How do they ever catch up in all of the other related subjects that you need to read for?

 

I have ex-classmates who had difficulty reading due to vision issues.  For elementary school, history can be done with audiobooks, geography can be done through videos.  Science can be done through hands on with the teacher/parent instructing.  There are audiobooks for many English classics too so a child can follow along a text with the audiobook and then answer the reading comprehension questions. During my time the audiobooks were cassette tapes and the schools I attended have a good stockpile for any student including ESL.

 

I have a friend who took an extra year in middle school to catch up.  Didn't affect her ability to get into college later.

 

This recent thread is useful if you haven't read it

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/555369-textbooks-immersion-reading/

 

Microsoft windows has a Narrator program for text to speech. My oldest was lazy enough to copy and paste text into Google translate and let it read to him.

[Rosie_0801]

I get that.  But what about the kids who get specialized instruction and tutoring, but still struggle in a key subject (like reading) by the third grade.   How do they ever catch up in all of the other related subjects that you need to read for?

 

Either they have some wonderful developmental leaps and it all falls into place.

 

Or they don't, and you keep working anyway, because what else do you do when you've got a kid you're meant to be educating?

 

You also learn to divorce skills from content. If your kid can't read or write enough, you do the work orally, and use read alouds, audiobooks, documentaries and discussion. Eventually their skills will improve so they can do more by reading and writing. Or they don't, and you plot ways to ensure they can make their living by talking instead.

[Ellie]

Do you agree with this article?  Why or why not?

http://education.penelopetrunk.com/2013/12/03/third-grade-is-a-crucial-decision-point-for-homeschooling/

 

My son has some possible dyslexia.   He will be behind in 3rd grade.   He will not be "reading to learn" next year...and don't even get me started on his writing.  

 

Sometimes I feel that catching him up is this impossible task.   We work as hard as we can.  And we may advance a grade level....but other "typical" kids are also advancing in that subject.   How can we ever get caught up?   I feel doomed to always be behind.   (This is me talking after getting his standardized test scores back.  He did really well in math and science, not so well in spelling and writing.)   I have to admit that articles like this scare me half to death! 

 

Is 3rd Grade "make it or break it"?  

 

Can a homeschooling mama avoid the Mathew Effect?   If so, how?

 

I disagree, primarily because--and this is important, so pay attention--HOMESCHOOLED CHILDREN ARE NOT IN GRADES.

 

It is possible that children who are stuck in grade-segregated classrooms will not catch up to their grade-level peers, but if they were grouped by age, taught according to ability, able to move to different levels based on their needs and achievements and not because of "grade level," they would be more likely to succeed.

 

The way you get "caught up" is to use instructional materials and methods that are not based on "grade level," and to watch how *him* so you know how he has improved and where he still needs work. And that will primarily be in English and math skills, because history and science and so on do not have "grade levels."

 

I don't know what you've used to teach your ds to read and spell, but Spalding or one of its spin-offs would be the place *I* would recommend for literacy.  For the rest, I wouldn't even ponder "grade level," except to notice that children who are 8yo are approximately 3rd grade-ish, 9yo are approximately 4th grade-ish, because then you can choose something that is age appropriate.

[kateingr]

 

 

Can a homeschooling mama avoid the Mathew Effect?   If so, how?

 

Yes, absolutely. The Matthew Effect is really about content knowledge, not reading skill. Obviously it's more difficult for struggling readers to acquire content knowledge because they're not getting it from reading, but that's the huge advantage of homeschooling: you have many more avenues available to you to help your son continue to learn rich, significant content without reading. 

 

You probably do tons of this already--which likely helped your son scored so well on his science standardized test. Without you teaching him science in a way that doesn't depend on reading, he wouldn't have done so well. The most important thing is just to keep helping him learn about the world, whether it's through documentaries, read-alouds, discussions, etc.--so that he has the rich vocabulary, understanding of sentence structure and background knowledge for when his reading skills eventually catch up. 

 

And, honestly, that Penelope Trunk article is ridiculous fear-mongering. I think her point is actually that you should homeschool if your child is struggling with reading in third-grade...but that's not very helpful without more specific suggestions. 

[Rosie_0801]

Another thing I do, considering my dd has a nasty little collection of learning difficulties, is to be up front about it. "Yeah, it takes you longer to learn this stuff than most people do because that's the way your brain works. By the way, here's some interesting things you might like to know about how your brain works, because brains are cool. And yeah, you do have to learn stuff even if it is hard or you'll grow up to be BORING!!" 

 

It becomes a fact of life, like eating sugar is bad for you, brushing your teeth is good for you, and if you're allergic to cat fur, you can't have a pet cat. Just fact. Not a character flaw.

[Micron4]

This is a great article from Andrew Pudewa (IEW) about his dyslexic son that couldn't read until age 12. I loved reading his son's beautifully perceptive writing at the end of the article.

 

http://iew.com/help-support/resources/articles/the-work-of-a-child

[Alte Veste Academy]

I think homeschooling is absolutely protective in cases like this. I feel so sorry for school children who are progressed without the necessary skills for success. 

 

Read aloud, read aloud, read aloud for content and rich literary language. Expose kids to good quality documentaries in science, history, and geography for content knowledge. 

[FairProspects]

I get that.  But what about the kids who get specialized instruction and tutoring, but still struggle in a key subject (like reading) by the third grade.   How do they ever catch up in all of the other related subjects that you need to read for?

 

You get an evaluation, diagnosis, and start accommodating with Immersion Reading, text-to-speech, and other dyslexic resources. That verbal fund of knowledge is critical and if there is a genuine LD, you need to find ways to get around the access barrier even as you remediate the reading.

[Ellie]

It's a system problem, not a child problem.

 

'Behind' at 3rd grade in school = problem because of the way school is designed.

'Behind' at 3rd grade while homeschooling = there is no automatic problem here.

 

True...except that homeschooled children are not "3rd grade." They are 8ish. ;-)

[8filltheheart]

I didn't read the article and I didn't read the other posts. I really don't have the time to post, but I thought I might forget about this thread and I wanted to encourage you. 10 yrs ago I had a 9 yr old who still struggled with simple readers, whose spelling was as horrible as his reading, and copy work was the closest thing to writing he was capable of achieving. He was very strong in math and was just a wonderful little boy who happened to be dyslexic. He didn't start to read on grade level until late 4th early 5th. By 6th grade he started reading materials above grade level, albeit slow. By 8th grade he was functioning significantly beyond grade level across the board.

 

Fast forward to 1 yr ago around this time. He graduated from high school with a 4.0 unweighted GPA. He graduated with high As in multiple 200 and 300 level classes. He was also accepted to college on full scholarship. He attended college this past yr, took 300 and 400 level classes, and maintained a 4.0.

 

No, life is not defined in 3rd grade. Only when stereotypes lead to self-fulfilling prophecies.

[strawberryjam]

I agree with the article in theory, but as homeschoolers it's amazing how consistent effort can pay off. For example, my son is finishing up Grade 3 right now and when he started the year his reading level was at about an end of Grade 1 level, now he's reading at a Grade 5/6 level. So it's possible to make up ground during this crucial time. His writing is still behind, but we are working on it and I know he will catch up. He doesn't have any learning disabilities so it's just a matter of consistency and practice for him.

[Ellie]

FTR, my younger dd was not reading at her age level until she was 9 1/2 yo (latter part of "4th grade"). She was a very determined, stubborn, creative little girl who wanted to do everything HERSELF, independently. I, of course, chose the least independent method of teaching her to read/spell: Spalding. ::face palm:: That year, I began doing Spalding with her, regardless of how she felt or acted. That was the year that I burned us out by Thanksgiving (including 12yo dd), and put the books away until the following September. Around, IDK, February or March, dds began looking at me out of the corners of their eyes, and one of them finally asked if we were going to Do School again. I said no, and they sighed with relief and went back to their learning. :-) Around that time, I noticed that younger dd was getting books out of the library basket (we went weekly) and taking them to her room. One day she went to the basket and said, "There's nothing to read. I can't stand it!"

 

[insert mental :party: ]

 

We "skipped" young dd a year so that she could join the youth group early, there being nothing going on at church for younger dc. The year that she was 14, which would have been 9th grade if we hadn't done the skip, I started a little one-room, multi-grade school at my church; dd enrolled as a sophomore. We did standardized testing in the spring, and I pondered whether to order a 9th or 10th grade, but I had to be true to myself, and so I ordered 10th. Dd tested post high school in everything except spelling, and that was 11th or 12th (we did Spalding that year).

 

:party:

 

The following fall, she began taking classes at the community college, and graduated with multiple AA's and a GPA of 3.9. She took meticulous notes in class, and rewrote them, including color coding, when she came home. (She figured that out on her own). If a paper was due on Friday, she was finished by the Monday before.

 

And also FTR, we never finished a math book at home; she tested into pre-algebra at the c.c. (not a college-level class), then aced Algebra 1, Algebra 2, and Statistics (all college level).

 

"Matthew Effect"? Piffle.

[foxbridgeacademy]

Nobody's life is over at grade 3.

 

 

And if your child is behind in grade 3, well sometimes that's the luck of the draw and there's nothing you can do about it. Not everyone can be the best. You keep your nose to the grindstone in the important areas and plot ways to avoid competing where you can't finish the race for later on when the time comes.

 

I used to read the high school board here, even before my kid was school aged for that reason. I thought to myself, no matter how interesting my kid turns out, there will be someone around here who can help me navigate it, because, quite frankly, I don't even think it's possible for my kid to be as interesting as some I've read about on here. And for the most part, they've all gone off to be reasonably useful and content with life so probably mine will too.

Thank you Rosie, this is one of the most brilliant things I've read. I have recently started coming to the same conclusion about my son. I wish I'd realized it when he was a third grader instead of a rising freshman, life would have been much more pleasant for the both of us.

[Incognito]

In some ways, 3rd grade is a dividing point.  The classroom issues aren't pertinent to home learning, but it is handy to realize that a lot of learning resources do shift their style (to child read materials) around this age.  

 

For our dyslexic(-like) child, it has been a year of very hard work.  I'd say for us, we've buckled down more and focused more on the weaknesses - whereas before it was easier to focus more intensely on strengths.  But there is still a balance.

 

It has also meant a couple of big changes for ME - even though I knew it, I had to really GROK that we aren't going to "catch up" with grade peers.  We are on a different path altogether.  I had always thought - well, once we get THIS working, it'll be easier to catch up.  No, it doesn't work that way.  Well, sure, the skills come.  But there is an unevenness to learning that makes age mates rough to compare with.  

 

So I guess I say that to have you consider that you may want to shoot for a different goal - not "catching up", but instead finding your path.   

 

 

[Tsuga]

My son is 8.  His birthday is late November.   He will be NINE for a lot of third grade.  Uggggghhhhh.

 

Okay, I hear you. That is tough. And he's struggling with CVC?

 

He will be okay because you're his mom. :) For real. But I agree, that is a hard place to be and that would definitely be playing catch up in PS.

 

 

 

So I guess I say that to have you consider that you may want to shoot for a different goal - not "catching up", but instead finding your path.   

 

I agree with this. I do think it's important to read, yes. I also think at eight you want to simultaneously do intensive phonics for dyslexics and find the root of the problem. You also want to find your path.

 

There are MANY paths for people who are not symbolic thinkers and some of those are very lucrative. Business and real estate and contracting, for one. And the list goes on. So develop those skills and let your kid excel at something.

[Jean in Newcastle]

It's a system problem, not a child problem.

 

'Behind' at 3rd grade in school = problem because of the way school is designed.

'Behind' at 3rd grade while homeschooling = there is no automatic problem here.

Yup.  Dd started to have things click finally in 5th grade.  I'm glad that I was able to let her bloom on her schedule and not on anyone else's.  This didn't mean that I wasn't working with her all along but I wasn't trying to push her beyond where she was, just to satisfy arbitrary standards.  (This doesn't mean that I don't see the value of standards but I do understand that they are set up for norms, not for those who are early or late bloomers.)

[Guest crozhuyou]

I used to read the high school board here, even before my kid was school aged for that reason. 

[TheAttachedMama]

This is a great article from Andrew Pudewa (IEW) about his dyslexic son that couldn't read until age 12. I loved reading his son's beautifully perceptive writing at the end of the article.

 

http://iew.com/help-support/resources/articles/the-work-of-a-child

 

YES, I love listening to Andrew Pudewa talk about his son.   It is really inspiring.  

[TheAttachedMama]

I didn't read the article and I didn't read the other posts. I really don't have the time to post, but I thought I might forget about this thread and I wanted to encourage you. 10 yrs ago I had a 9 yr old who still struggled with simple readers, whose spelling was as horrible as his reading, and copy work was the closest thing to writing he was capable of achieving. He was very strong in math and was just a wonderful little boy who happened to be dyslexic. He didn't start to read on grade level until late 4th early 5th. By 6th grade he started reading materials above grade level, albeit slow. By 8th grade he was functioning significantly beyond grade level across the board.

 

Fast forward to 1 yr ago around this time. He graduated from high school with a 4.0 unweighted GPA. He graduated with high As in multiple 200 and 300 level classes. He was also accepted to college on full scholarship. He attended college this past yr, took 300 and 400 level classes, and maintained a 4.0.

 

No, life is not defined in 3rd grade. Only when stereotypes lead to self-fulfilling prophecies.

 

Thank you so much for replying.   I did find your words encouraging.   Looking back, when would you have started your child on a writing program like TC??   That is one of the things I eventually want to use with my son to help get him on track with writing. 

 

[Another Lynn]

Either they have some wonderful developmental leaps and it all falls into place.

 

Or they don't, and you keep working anyway, because what else do you do when you've got a kid you're meant to be educating?

 

You also learn to divorce skills from content. If your kid can't read or write enough, you do the work orally, and use read alouds, audiobooks, documentaries and discussion. Eventually their skills will improve so they can do more by reading and writing. Or they don't, and you plot ways to ensure they can make their living by talking instead.

 

This.  I agree with this and many other lovely things Rosie says! 

 

[TheAttachedMama]

Okay, I hear you. That is tough. And he's struggling with CVC?

 

He will be okay because you're his mom. :) For real. But I agree, that is a hard place to be and that would definitely be playing catch up in PS.

 

Well, according to the standardized test he just took, his "word attack skills" are at a 4.3 grade level (4th grade, 3rd month).   They tested that on the test by having him orally read these REALLY long nonsense words to see if he could phonetically sound them out, divide them into syllables.   He did pretty well.  He also does well with phonetic manipulations in his head.   I have noticed most dyslexics do not.   We are half way through All About Reading 4....so his phonic skills are pretty decent.   it seems like all dyslexic programs focus on phonics, phonics, phonics....but my gut tells me that isn't necessarily going to help me. 

 

Despite having a strong phonics background,  his general reading skills are lagging.   Sometimes he guesses.  Sometimes he skips or changes key words so the meaning of the text changes.    Sometimes he can sound out REALLY long words, but then gets stuck on simple words he has read millions of times.   So his word recognition skills were low.   In other words, I can look at the word 'turtle'...and just know it is turtle.   He still has to go through and look at each letter to sound it out despite reading it millions of times.   Even multiple times in the same story.  

 

We've had him in vision therapy.   I sometimes think he needs more.   Maybe he has to sound out the words because it is taking his eyes so long to focus on each letter, etc.  It is just a never ending up hill battle.   My mommy-instinct tells me that he needs a TON of time practicing reading out loud.  I feel like that helps him with fluency, comprehension...and the practice will help him with word recognition.  I carve out 30 minutes a day with him, but it is hard to make time for EVERYTHING each child needs.  

[FO4UR]

I get that.  But what about the kids who get specialized instruction and tutoring, but still struggle in a key subject (like reading) by the third grade.   How do they ever catch up in all of the other related subjects that you need to read for?

 

 

My 12yo was barely reading at a K level when he turned 9yo.  This, in spite of intensive and consistent one-on-one daily instruction from the time he was 4/5yo.

 

 

I have read aloud to him (all of my dc) for about 2 hours every day for years now.  We listen to audiobooks at home and in the van on top of all the reading.  This is how he took in literature, history, science, geography, and more.  My dyslexic has felt behind in reading skill, but has never felt behind in any other area.  In fact, we've had comments about how much he knows about _______ at various museums/parks/classes and there is an assumption that he is a voracious reader...he avoided the direct "I cannot actually read." answer with "I homeschool."  (...as if all homeschoolers are awesome, duh!  :lol: )  

 

 

2nd point of attack, after reading aloud to him, has been oral narration.  He cannot learn to spell words easily.  It's an ongoing problem, and only fixed with intensive and consistent lessons.  He's grade levels behind.  He is where he is.  However, he's a bright kid with interesting thoughts.  He still needs to learn to write.  Oral Narration!  Several times a day, I have him tell back and we discuss.  I bought Dragon Naturally Speaking so that he can give an oral narration into the computer and it will type it out for him.  I'm still having him do spelling lessons, copywork and dictations, and a few handwritten narrations every week.  But his ideas and actual writing-writing can flourish with Dragon.  And, tbh, he may be using tools like Dragon to get through college and succeed in his career as an adult. It is what it is.  He can still succeed, and that is the important thing.

 

Documentaries!  The language in documentaries feeds their ability to read and understand content area subjects, not to mention they do actually do a pretty decent job of presenting the information as well.

 

 

 

A last thought:  My dyslexic was not reading at really when he turned 9yo, but was reading at grade level by the time he turned 10yo.  That year that things clicked, I skimmed his seatwork down to reading lessons, copywork, and a smidgen of written math.  I covered EVERYTHING else orally, through read alouds, through games, through anything but sitting down and looking at paper.  Every brain cell that could be spared went into learning to read.  Anything mentally taxing that didn't lead to fluent reading was shelved for later.

[FO4UR]

Well, according to the standardized test he just took, his "word attack skills" are at a 4.3 grade level (4th grade, 3rd month).   They tested that on the test by having him orally read these REALLY long nonsense words to see if he could phonetically sound them out, divide them into syllables.   He did pretty well.  He also does well with phonetic manipulations in his head.   I have noticed most dyslexics do not.   We are half way through All About Reading 4....so his phonic skills are pretty decent.   it seems like all dyslexic programs focus on phonics, phonics, phonics....but my gut tells me that isn't necessarily going to help me. 

 

Despite having a strong phonics background,  his general reading skills are lagging.   Sometimes he guesses.  Sometimes he skips or changes key words so the meaning of the text changes.    Sometimes he can sound out REALLY long words, but then gets stuck on simple words he has read millions of times.   So his word recognition skills were low.   In other words, I can look at the word 'turtle'...and just know it is turtle.   He still has to go through and look at each letter to sound it out despite reading it millions of times.   Even multiple times in the same story.  

 

We've had him in vision therapy.   I sometimes think he needs more.   Maybe he has to sound out the words because it is taking his eyes so long to focus on each letter, etc.  It is just a never ending up hill battle.   My mommy-instinct tells me that he needs a TON of time practicing reading out loud.  I feel like that helps him with fluency, comprehension...and the practice will help him with word recognition.  I carve out 30 minutes a day with him, but it is hard to make time for EVERYTHING each child needs.  

 

 

Try something else.  Don't quit AAR necessarily, but if his phonetic skills are good, then your hunch that he needs something in addition is probably spot on.

 

Dancing Bears (Fast Track and Book C) does an excellent job at remediating those kids who struggle with vision quirks.  

 

The Companions for the Treadwell Readers that I'm making utilize some of the same technique, but focus on learning the words in the upcoming story (and morphemic word building) rather than organizing by phonetics.  I wrote these (2nd and 3rd Reader Companions) for a child who already knows phonics, but needs a nudge towards fluency.

 

Alternately, you can pull words from whatever you are having him read aloud and use those words for word-building practice on the board.  Pull apart the sounds, the morphemes, and discuss meanings and nuance.  Don't just spell.  kwim.  When he gets to those words in his book, they will come much more easily. As he works through words like this over time, thinking about the words will become habit. 

[TheAttachedMama]

Try something else.  Don't quit AAR necessarily, but if his phonetic skills are good, then your hunch that he needs something in addition is probably spot on.

 

Dancing Bears (Fast Track and Book C) does an excellent job at remediating those kids who struggle with vision quirks.  

 

The Companions for the Treadwell Readers that I'm making utilize some of the same technique, but focus on learning the words in the upcoming story (and morphemic word building) rather than organizing by phonetics.  I wrote these (2nd and 3rd Reader Companions) for a child who already knows phonics, but needs a nudge towards fluency.

 

Alternately, you can pull words from whatever you are having him read aloud and use those words for word-building practice on the board.  Pull apart the sounds, the morphemes, and discuss meanings and nuance.  Don't just spell.  kwim.  When he gets to those words in his book, they will come much more easily. As he works through words like this over time, thinking about the words will become habit. 

 

I say we use All About Reading....but we actually use the fluency sheets the "dancing bears" way with the cursor to help with the vision thing.    Dancing bears didn't give him enough practice alone, but the AAR fluency sheets do.     And we do the exact thing you describe with the word building.   We pull out the AAS/AAR board every time he reads.  Any word he guesses on (or struggles with) is built with the tiles and analyzed.  

 

[8filltheheart]

Thank you so much for replying. I did find your words encouraging. Looking back, when would you have started your child on a writing program like TC?? That is one of the things I eventually want to use with my son to help get him on track with writing.

He couldn't have managed the 2nd and 3rd sections independently until 5th grade bc of the vocabulary in the reading and his struggles with spelling. However, the first section was what we always did together orally. I could read him sentences and teach him grammar concepts with no problems. The same is true of the other sections. He knew paragraphs were composed of topic sentences and supporting details bc we would do those sorts of assignments orally and I would teach him via discussion. I would not ask him to write them independently bc it was too many skills to expect him to master simultaneously.

 

Apples and Pears made a huge difference in his spelling. He read out loud to me through 6th grade. He started independent writing assignments once he was reading more fluidly and could manage the multiple tasks required for writing simultaneously (I can't remember for sure any more, bu I am thinking late 4th, early 5th.). Fwiw, my ds didnt hear sounds correctly, either. He could not and still can't hear the difference between short I and short e. He often confuses short u and short o. He would jumble sounds and pronounce words incorrectly.

[wintermom]

It sounds like you are doing wonderful things with him to work on his reading and writing skills.  The fact that you have and are continuing to do vision therapy with him, to work on his unique strengths and weaknesses is terrific.  Things like the Matthew Effect and other teachers pre-appointing grades based on past work are more for classroom situations, where a set curriculum and speed of work is necessary to fulfill governement/state educational guidelines, and a teacher may not take the time to look carefully at each student's work.  Use the standardized tests for your own purposes to provide information that you can use in a positive way. Don't panic about your son having to "catch up."   Like pp have stated, there are years and years of learning and developing that occur between grade 3 and high school graduation - and even then some people still do not reach their true potential until well beyond the teen years.

 

Relax, keep things positive, don't stress yourself or your son about being behind. With all the amazing support you are providing your son, he is going to do well. 

[IsabelC]

I think that the 'Matthew effect' is mostly created by the school system. School assumes that kids will make the transition to 'read to learn' and is conducted according to this assumption. This may be an efficient way to proceed in a classroom situation, but there is no reason why home education must work that way, as it isn't necessary to peg everything to the child's reading ability. My 10yo 'slow reader' isn't held back by her reading ability, simply because I make darn sure that none of her other learning depends on reading. I read to and with her (a lot; in fact when she was first tested for learning difficulties, her vocabulary and comprehension came out seven years ahead of her reading ability! which shows that poor readers don't have to miss out on vocab and so on, as stated in the article you linked), she listens to audio books, watches documentaries, participates in discussions, experiments and other hands on activities all at an 'age appropriate' level. Until recently, I used to read out her word problems in math, although now she is working at 4th grade arithmetic she is finally reading the problems for herself (yay!).

 

Also, I believe that a big part of reading reluctance is related to shame. A kid at school feels embarrassed if she can't read when her peers can, and many will eventually stop making efforts to improve their reading, and instead aim to hide their lack of reading ability and/or convince themselves and others that they don't care and don't want to read anyway. With school out of the equation, and you can both avoid a lot of the embarrassment about reading and offer the child a totally individualized reading support program. This is a powerful combination. If you can add to that a sincere committment to helping your child develop at his own optimum pace, and try to forget about (or at least de-emphasize) school type expectations, there is no reason whatsoever that your son shouldn't reach his full learning potential.

[Love_to_Read]

I agree with the majority of posts, but wanted to bring up something I don't see mentioned. 

 

For my own child with dyslexic tendencies, she was falling further behind in school in 3rd because of the way they did things.  Struggling to memorize harder and harder spelling lists on grade level rather than taking time to fix the foundation of being able to segment sounds at all?  Melting down over multiplication and division because even some of the addition/subtraction facts were still shaky, rather than taking time to fix that foundation? I can absolutely see the Matthew Effects at play there, because there was no time for proper remediation while still fitting into the one-size-fits-all box of public school.  But now that we've been homeschooling several years, she's a bookworm who is relatively confident in math.  Still can't spell well, still isn't quite caught up in math, but making steady progress instead of getting further and further behind.  We have rebuilt what the school system almost destroyed in terms of confidence and foundational abilities.

 

The thing is, it DOES take at least a year to make a year's progress with a struggling learner in many cases, while peers are also progressing.  Sometimes there are developmental leaps, but often progress is hard won.   At some point, I had to resign myself to the fact that we are going to be doing math and something related to dyslexia year-round for the rest of this child's school career because we have a long way to go.  If we try to limit our homeschooling to 180 days like the school system, we ARE going to fall further and further behind, because remediation takes time.  Our best chance at "catching up" is to keep plugging away at it for more days per year than the average student.  I'm sure we'll continue to need some burnout breaks here and there, but progress in her areas of disability are going to be slower and harder and that's just life. So, we do our best with the time we're given.  And if we fail to get to AP 12th grade Calculus, but manage to squeeze in Algebra and Geometry by working through the summers or adding a gap year, that's a hell of a lot better than throwing in the towel in 3rd grade. 

[JDoe]

 

Can a homeschooling mama avoid the Mathew Effect?   If so, how?

 

Yes, by figuring out what the Mathew effect really is

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_effect

[OneStepAtATime]

Can a child that is behind in 3rd grade ever "catch up"?  Yes.

 

Can a child that is behind in 3rd grade ever become successful academically?  Yes.

 

If your child is struggling and you suspect something like dyslexia should you do anything besides just keep struggling through?  Yes, especially if they are still struggling after years of instruction.  They may be ingraining inefficient ways of learning and need a different way of approaching learning altogether.  The longer you wait, the harder it will be to help them.

 

Why?  Because there are MANY reasons a child may struggle.  If you get solid answers through an evaluation as to WHY they are struggling you can target the weak areas in a more specific way.  Also, though, if you get an evaluation you can find out where their real strengths lie, strengths that the weaknesses may be masking.  Getting solid answers means you can actually have a better chance at tackling the problems in a more productive way.

 

Are there options for how to scaffold a struggling child while they work on their weak areas? Yes.  Should instructors provide that scaffolding?  Yes.  Of course.  If it means the child finally gets a chance to learn and provide output through more successful means while the weak areas are targeted, then do it (speech to text software, audio books, scribing, etc. are all extremely helpful and useful tools).

 

My daughter was a dismal speller/reader for years and years.  She is dyslexic.  In 5th grade she could only really successfully decode books like Clifford and The Black Lagoon little kid books.  She felt stupid.  She struggled daily in school.  We pulled her to homeschool for 6th.  We got her evaluations that gave us badly needed answers.  Dyslexia was not the only issue we had missed.  She went from reading Clifford in 5th grade to being able to read Divergent 18 months after we started proper, targeted, instruction that actually truly addressed her weak areas while supporting her strengths.  Are things perfect now?  No.  She still has some weak areas.  We are still working on those.  Math may always be a struggle.  But that is not the end of the world.  There are many ways to scaffold and help while still working to solidify the weak spots.  And she has a LOT of strengths that were not being tapped before.

 

Here is my update on her spelling from the LC board.  I think it may help:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/555581-shout-out-to-dd/

 

Best wishes.

 

ETA:  FWIW, my husband is dyslexic, dysgraphic and still struggles with basic arithmetic and time.  School was a terrible struggle for him.  He is now a successful engineer and highly respected in his field.  He just needed a different approach to learning and thankfully had very supportive parents who helped him find his strengths.  

[OneStepAtATime]

I think reading The Dyslexic Advantage by Brock and Fernette Eide would be helpful.

 

The Dyslexia Empowerment Plan by Ben Foss might also be very useful.

 

Other suggestions:

How to Homeschool Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl

The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide

 

These websites:

http://www.bartonreading.com/dys.html

 

http://learningabledkids.com/

 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  to the OP and to all who have a struggling learner.

[EKS]

You most certainly can avoid the Matthew effect. You do it by reading everything aloud. And you keep plugging away at reading and writing skills.

[pitterpatter]

Have you read Ben Foss's The Dyslexia Empowerment Plan: A Blueprint for Renewing Your Child's Confidence and Love of Learning yet? If not, you might. It has bolstered my confidence. There are other ways to read. DD may be a little behind in regard to eye reading, but I would put a good sum of money down that what she ear reads is far superior to what any student entering third grade at out local public school has eye read. You might start working on some alternative skills that will help him excel in terms of knowledge and output while you two continue to work on improving his eye reading and writing.

 

http://headstrongnation.org/

 

DD can easily devour 2-3 new 100-page history audio and Kindle-read books in a day. It would probably take her 2-3 weeks to eye read them. I pretty much let her have free reign to listen to her Kindle all day long now while she plays. She rarely listens to a book just once. In the past three days, she's listened to Dragon Rider three times (a 544-page book!) and the complete 6-book set for American Girl Felicity (which, I know will be repeated today).

 

This year, I am scheduling a lot of audiobooks/Kindle-read books for history (and what I can find for science), and not just historical fiction. DD is very fond of the Who Was...? series, for example. I'm also looking for creative ways to help her produce higher-level output. I'm exploring speech-to-text options and ways for her to express her knowledge visually. (http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/555069-freecheap-digital-publishing-resources-to-aid-the-writingspelling-challenged-student-produce-quality-creative-output/)

 

What I'm trying to say is that while DD may not be able to keep up with some kids in the eye reading category (and particularly spelling), she is in no way, shape or form behind in the knowledge category. Technology such as it is, things that were once regarded as accommodations for the "disabled" are becoming mainstream with the advent of smartphones. Your DS is not doomed to fail just because he may not learn and work in a traditional way. As a matter of fact, if you two embrace technology, he may actually be more mainstream than not by the time he gets to college. I will admit, I do struggle in finding a happy medium...classical homeschooling seems to revolve around constant reading and writing.

[Elisabet1]

The Matthew Effect is dumb. 3rd-5th grade seems to be a turning point where kids change in how they think. But this change can often cause a student who was not doing well to turn around and do well due to a different way of thinking and learning. I would never ever make a decision on a child's future based on 3rd grade.

[RootAnn]

Due to life circumstances (my dad out of a job), almost every kid in my family was pulled from a horrid Catholic school where we were bullied & behind academically & put into the local public school right after I finished 3rd grade. The PS tested me that summer with the ITBS or CTBS and the results correlated with my grades - poor (20-25th percentile). My fourth grade teacher was amazing & my CTBS results at the end of the year were in the 97th percentile (composite). I bloomed. I blossomed. I grew. I ended up being a National Merit Finalist & graduated college in 3 1/2 years with a Mechanical Engineering degree.

 

My oldest & dd#2 were late readers. DS#1 is on the same track. Now, you can't find dd#1 without a book unless she's playing catch, riding her bike, or swimming. DD#2 would rather draw than do just about anything else, but she loves to write stories ... and she's a voracious audiobook listener, especially while sketching. You would never have guessed the things my kids would be able to do when they were struggling to learn to read in those early years.

 

Other people have advice, good advice. I just want to offer hope. Keep working with your son. Don't lose hope. Get any help you feel he needs, of course, but some of us are just late bloomers. The best thing about homeschooling is that my kids didn't know they were 'behind.' They're just them.

[8filltheheart]

. The best thing about homeschooling is that my kids didn't know they were 'behind.' They're just them.

Absolutely!! My ds had no idea just how far behind he really was. Last year when he was graduating, I had a friend with a dyslexic dd the same age who went to ps. Her dd's self-esteem was destroyed. She was convinced she was stupid and incapable of any sort of academic success. Every time I came home from her house, I hugged my dh and thanked him for providing our family the gift of homeschooling, and I hugged my ds in thanksgiving that he was able to blossom to his full potential.

[EKS]

The Matthew Effect is dumb. 

 

The Matthew effect is not dumb.  It is tragic.  Institutional schooling is dumb.

[kubiac]

If anyone is interested, here is the academic article that is the oft-cited source of the term:

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/files/u81/Stanovich__1986_.pdf

[MerryAtHope]

I get that.  But what about the kids who get specialized instruction and tutoring, but still struggle in a key subject (like reading) by the third grade.   How do they ever catch up in all of the other related subjects that you need to read for?

 

You read to them and use audio books. I never found my struggling readers to be behind in content subjects or vocabulary because we read tons and they listened to things while they played with legos etc... too. 

 

You work at their pace and don't worry about comparing them to same-age peers. Kids all progress at different rates. Why do we expect them to all be the same? One-room school-houses didn't work that way; it's too bad our educational system moved away from that model. The Matthew Effect may be true for PS kids, but I think it's far from predictive of the hs child. 

 

You don't give up. Another encouraging story--Marie Rippel & their son. They were told he would never read or write and to prepare him for a life without reading! Crazy!

 

You encourage them and make sure to also focus on their strengths. Make sure they have time to pursue a passion. One of mine has a passion for science and has done a science fair for years, starting in mid-elementary school. That meant in the beginning that I read everything, the report was done orally and I scribed (with lots of prodding, prompting, and questions to help clarify parts done by me), the words for displays were dictated and I typed them & printed them out, and so on. 

 

In junior high, the pendulum started to swing where my dd did more of the work of writing by hand, I typed and helped with revisions, then eventually she typed more and I mainly coached through revisions--until this past year (10th grade) when I mainly helped with proof-reading. It took lots and lots of coaching and walking alongside--but the passion she had to pursue her project gave her lots of reading, writing, and science skills all together. 

 

For my kids, I saw the final "catching up" happen in high school. I still see some lingering effects for my oldest, but he's off to college in the fall with some scholarships he had to write essays to earn--and several years ago I wouldn't have thought that possible. I let him be himself though, and pursue his interests. He liked things like pokemon and yugioh, which about drove me batty--but they made him think through logic and strategy and helped him with social skills. They also led into an interest in studying Japanese for foreign language, and sometimes had tie-ins with history or culture--and these things led to interests in subjects like psychology, philosophy, and world-views. 

 

Some kids might "catch up" sooner. Some might never "catch up." Truly, I dislike even using that phrase because it implies there's some hierarchy or standard to achieve instead of letting kids be who they are. Catch up to what? I feel like the phrase cajoles us to view kids as being "not quite enough," and that's such an unfair burden to put on a child.

 

I think the biggest thing you do is rest. I don't mean quit teaching (far from it, continue pursuing meeting his needs, encouraging him, providing needed accommodations, pursuing therapies as needed and so on). But what I do mean is rest from comparing. Rest from worrying. Rest from feeling like he has to be something he's not--and just let him be who he is now. He's a little boy who loves some things and hates others, who probably excels at doing some things even while he struggles with reading/writing/spelling. Don't miss enjoying him and encouraging his passions, don't let struggles strangle out the joy of these years with him. Rest. 

 

I think reading The Dyslexic Advantage by Brock and Fernette Eide would be helpful.

 

The Dyslexia Empowerment Plan by Ben Foss might also be very useful.

 

Other suggestions:

How to Homeschool Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl

The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide

 

These websites:

http://www.bartonreading.com/dys.html

 

http://learningabledkids.com/

 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  to the OP and to all who have a struggling learner.

 

The Eide's and Kathy Kuhl both have awesome materials. I really like the perspective of The Dyslexic Advantage: Unlocking the Hidden Potential of the Dyslexic Brain, and The Mislabeled Child helped me tease out several threads of struggles and to know how to pursue help beyond what we received from therapies and diagnoses.

[Ausmumof3]

Do you agree with this article? Why or why not?

http://education.penelopetrunk.com/2013/12/03/third-grade-is-a-crucial-decision-point-for-homeschooling/

 

My son has some possible dyslexia. He will be behind in 3rd grade. He will not be "reading to learn" next year...and don't even get me started on his writing.

 

Sometimes I feel that catching him up is this impossible task. We work as hard as we can. And we may advance a grade level....but other "typical" kids are also advancing in that subject. How can we ever get caught up? I feel doomed to always be behind. (This is me talking after getting his standardized test scores back. He did really well in math and science, not so well in spelling and writing.) I have to admit that articles like this scare me half to death!

 

Is 3rd Grade "make it or break it"?

 

Can a homeschooling mama avoid the Mathew Effect? If so, how?

The point of the Matthew effect thing is that the kids can't learn as well in school past a certain grade if they can't read the material. At home it's easy you either read the material to them or get audio and visual materials. No problem. This is one of the main benefits of homeschooling - that we can make stuff available to our kids in a million different formats.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I doubt it.  Seems pretty dramatic.