When is the best time to start Latin? (Poll)

[Slache]

Another Latin poll. :)

[ikslo]

:bigear:

[smudge]

Thinking about this as well... 

[Gil]

Personally, I can't get behind any of the reasons I've read about to teach/learn Latin as a language. Vocabuarly or phrases--yes, the whole language--no.

I will never teach or require Latin, if the boys want to learn it at some point they can knock themselves out but it isn't something I'd allow to usurp actual HS time/subjects that I think are important.

 

I value and invest in modern, living languages.

[kirstenhill]

I have one child very interested in Latin, so we started in 2nd grade (and maybe spend about 10 minutes a day on it).  I have another child not interested in Latin, who is dabbling in a modern language (but will also study greek/latin roots).  Not sure what will happen with the younger two, but I am more interested in interest-led language learning.  I will present to them the idea of learning Latin and if they want to do it, great.  Otherwise they can work on a modern language.  We are not putting a ton of time at this point into classical or modern languages.  We just have other priorities.

[Eagle]

I took Latin in grades 7 and 8 and I gained so much from those two years. Can I fluently read Latin? No. That was never the goal. It gave me such a good foundation for English vocabulary and made learning Spanish and French so much easier than before.

 

With my children we are starting early. Ds started in K and our 2.5yo has somehow absorbed about 50% of what ds has covered over the two years. I don't have a goal for them to be fluent either. 2-3 years of early vocab basics should provide a good foundation. We will then focus on Spanish and French and revisit Latin in middle school for more complex vocabulary.

[G5052]

Both started in 7th.  One did AP Latin in 11th and got a "5."  He did three years of two different modern languages as well.  

 

The other will be in high school Latin Lit, but may do two semesters of dual enrollment Spanish instead of AP Latin in 12th.

 

I grew up trilingual (English, German, Spanish), and did a minor in German in college.  No problem with getting to about the second year of high school Latin, and then I deferred to professionals.

 

No regrets.  Friends that started early with Latin burned out on it.  I didn't have the energy earlier.

[smudge]

THIS! This is my thinking as well. There are SO MANY of the words used in the English language that have latin roots. I can't help but think a basic understanding would be nothing but beneficial. I learned more about English grammar in Spanish class than I did in English class! HA-HA!

 

I took Latin in grades 7 and 8 and I gained so much from those two years. Can I fluently read Latin? No. That was never the goal. It gave me such a good foundation for English vocabulary and made learning Spanish and French so much easier than before.

With my children we are starting early. Ds started in K and our 2.5yo has somehow absorbed about 50% of what ds has covered over the two years. I don't have a goal for them to be fluent either. 2-3 years of early vocab basics should provide a good foundation. We will then focus on Spanish and French and revisit Latin in middle school for more complex vocabulary.

 

[StartingOver]

We started very early because of interest. I say you know your kids best.

[Slache]

THIS! This is my thinking as well. There are SO MANY of the words used in the English language that have latin roots. I can't help but think a basic understanding would be nothing but beneficial. I learned more about English grammar in Spanish class than I did in English class! HA-HA!

Yo tambien!

[StartingOver]

I will expand now that I am at the computer. I started my older kids very late, and really wanted to start earlier this time. We start Latin first, then 3 years later ( or so ) we start Spanish, another three years and we start French while continuing all previous languages. They have a choice of adding a 4th language for high school.

 

I really want a stronger foundation this time, so we can move more interest based as the children get older. I want to start those hard subjects asap, so that we can enjoy the easier path. So far, this has been amazing. It was so hard to jump into Wheelocks with big kids, of course it would likely be easier now that Wheelocks has so many supporting books out now. Still, I want a more gentle approach, working toward real mastery, not just memorize and forget.

[mom2att]

In my experience, the best time to begin is in late elementary, go slowly, and study it for as long as the student retains an interest.

 

That said, my goals for Latin study have been to ease the transition to a modern language study in high school and to gain the vocabulary/root study benefits from an ancient language. That and just to stretch the brain with memory work and applied grammar.

 

I've taught Latin to all three of my own, plus a bunch of kids at co-op for several years. My 8th grader is moving on to Spanish now, and so my tenure with Latin is through. I'm ready to move on, but I've sure learned a lot. Hopefully the kids have as well :-)

 

 

[arliemaria]

I don't have experience, but I have Song School Latin on interlibrary loan currently.  Considering playing this off and on (along with other audio books and music) during free playtime during our upcoming 1st grade year.

[Btervet]

We just started Song School Latin with DS5, so take this with a grain of salt as I don't have much experience.

 

DS has been begging me to learn Spanish for a while. I don't know any Spanish so had been putting it off. At some point, he read in a book (I have no clue which) about language families, and how many modern languages, including English and Spanish, are based on Latin. So, he switched tactics and started begging for Latin. I finally caved.

 

DS started SSL about a month ago, and he adores it. I have no clue if it will be helpful for later language learning, but he is having a ball. So far it has helped with some basic grammar and vocabulary. I've been studying from Wheelocks at the same time, and it isn't an easy starting point, especially if you don't know much grammar(I know almost none).

 

So for us, SSL at 5 is very fun, and may or may not be helpful long term with languages. But it has his interest, which is what matters most for me at this age.

[8filltheheart]

I would be curious what a poll with kids who have actually progressed through Latin at the high school level would show.  

[Guest]

If I had it to do over, I would do word-roots until 5th-7th grade; no formal Latin.  AND I would do something to teach the Greek alphabet, because little kids pick up that stuff like LINT. 

 

My son was good at it but it was toooooo many years of toooo slow progress.  He was just tired of the whole thing by his senior year.  He did really well on all the tests and so on until then but by that time, he just shut down and ended up quitting.  Tired of it.  

 

But I would definitely do Latin again; and if I could I would add in a year of Greek. 

 

[Laura Corin]

We started with Mandarin, then added in Latin at about age nine or ten.  Both boys then added in French.  Hobbes has dabbled in Greek, and Calvin did a couple of years of high school Greek over one summer.  

 

It worked well.  Spending years and years of elementary school on Latin would have been a waste of time that was better spent on a living language.

 

ETA: Hobbes is continuing Latin to age 16 and probably 18.  Calvin is studying Classics and English at university.  So the 'late' start hasn't hurt them.

[arliemaria]

If I had it to do over, I would do word-roots until 5th-7th grade; no formal Latin.  AND I would do something to teach the Greek alphabet, because little kids pick up that stuff like LINT. 

 

My son was good at it but it was toooooo many years of toooo slow progress.  He was just tired of the whole thing by his senior year.  He did really well on all the tests and so on until then but by that time, he just shut down and ended up quitting.  Tired of it.  

 

But I would definitely do Latin again; and if I could I would add in a year of Greek. 

 

If schedules and stars align, next year we will have Robby go to the large Greek church for modern Greek class.  It is very inexpensive at around $100 for the school year.  It would be a fun class for him and he'd be with other children who share our faith.

[JudoMom]

I would be curious what a poll with kids who have actually progressed through Latin at the high school level would show.  

 

With my older boys, I started in K/1st.  My older two completed Latin 1 this year, and will continue with Latin 2 in the fall.  At the time, I was a proponent of starting early.  With my younger boys, I dabbled when they were younger, but I hadn't seen a huge return in my older boys so I wasn't compelled to keep at it. I am starting them in 6th/7th.

I found the time invested just wasn't worth it.  I'd never deny a child who was asking for it, and Song School Latin, for example, can be fun, but I now feel that is time that I could've spent doing other things when they were young.

[purpleowl]

I voted that it completely depends.  As another poster said, know your own kids, and do what works well for them.

 

We've only just started our Latin study, so I can't give a reflective answer, so I chose Other on the second question.  For the last question, I chose Latin and Other - I know I'll be doing Latin with each kid, and I expect we'll probably add in Greek and/or modern languages a little later, but I don't know yet.  

[stm4him]

I JUST changed my thinking on languages based on a thread that got started here and my need to simplify EVERYTHING in my life right now.  

 

My new thinking is that I HOPE my kids will start to study other languages in the last three years of high school, if not before, but that when they do study it they will have very few other subjects on their plate (upper level math OR science if they have completed all the math books, reading, a daily writing assignment of some kind, music practice, and some form of art).  That way, they can devote a good chunk of time to the study of a language and hopefully add a new one each year but complete more than one level in a year.  The only language I care about them being able to speak is Spanish and I hear that takes the longest to do well, so they are going to START with that and add Latin after one year of Spanish and one year of Spanish and French together.  My students who struggle may never reach the goal of studying other languages and that is ok with me.  I'd rather them have studied logic and rhetoric so they can speak and write well in English first.  I plan to set an example first with studying these languages myself so I can get a feel for how that is done well and what materials are best (through my own trial and error).  But I have at least a year before I need to start this and probably more because my oldest is the one who struggles so she is the one I am most likely to relax about if she doesn't ever study other languages (or gets only a year of Spanish).

 

For now, I am focusing on their spelling skills and then quickly moving my oldest two into the study of grammar.  This will be great preparation for the study of other languages later.

[stm4him]

I forgot to say that we had been studying Latin and Greek very slowly over the last several years and although I truly enjoyed it and learned a lot, and succeeded in having at least one child enjoy Greek, they kept getting hung up on the grammar so I decided that it was best to lay aside these subjects for now and lay the foundation in grammar first.  Only time will tell if this was a good decision.....I'm hoping JudoMom is right....

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

10:00 am.

 

After breakfast, and long enough to have the wiggles worked out.

[lllll]

..

[mumto2]

We started young and did Latin together for several years. It probably should have been on my list of things I am glad we did. We had fun. Never were overly intense about it but the benifits still exist today.

 

Ds is my mathy computer programmer who harbours a serious dislike for most non stem subjects, therefore he gave up Latin at 10. That being said the kid does understand grammar and how language works. So much so that he has picked Swedish for his two year modern language because it meant several of his own criteria based on what he considers to be a logical language. I think the early Latin gave him these insights. ;) He can also read signs on old buildings and enjoys that. :lol: He would never take the time now but would probably admit that he is glad for the bits of Latin he remembers.

 

Dd has always loved all languages but is really grateful for the early Latin. She picks up languages easily and gives full credit to Latin for that ability. She is currently studing for both the Latin and German Subject exams. She recently did well on the French subject exam, which she has been self studying for roughly 2 years. She would love to do a Latin AP but probably lacks the time. She is learning several other languages going on Duolingo.

[8filltheheart]

I answered the poll as 6th grade. I think 5th or 6th grade is the most appropriate age. We won't spend time on Latin any younger. My kids who started Latin younger dropped it. My kids who started older, not only stuck with Latin longer, but with other languages as well. My college freshman had 6 foreign Lang high school credits. My rising 11th grader already has 10 foreign Lang high school credits. But, even she, who loves languages, is now tired of Latin and is dropping it next yr to focus more on her modern Lang.

 

I personally think Latin too early can backfire and cause them to lose interest. I didn't see my dd wanting to drop Latin coming. But the time commitment required for upper level Latin is significant. She has reached a level of mastery where she can read Latin, both prose and poetry. In her mind she has accomplished her goals.

 

(ETA: in re-reading this, she didn't start too early and her dropping Latin isn't related to losing interest and it backfiring. It is tied to the fact that upper level Latin is very time consuming. And, the reality is that she could not have tackled Latin at the level she accomplished at a much younger age bc it does take a certain level of interior commitment and maturity to stick with it. Unless a child loves Latin, hitting that level too young will just leave them frustrated bc of just how much work it is.)

[Runningmom80]

Ds started at 6, and I tried to drop it this year but he won't let me. I think it's highly subjective.

[luuknam]

Depends on the kid. C had a massive language delay, so I opted for "just English" for quite a while, even though I wanted to teach him my native language (which is not Latin, lol). Now I want to get serious about my native language (Dutch), but I think that throwing in more than one foreign language probably isn't a good idea for him, at least not at this time. So, in a battle between my native language and Latin... my native language is going to win.

 

I had two years of Latin (7th and 8th grade), but I don't think it really made a difference. I enjoyed it (except when they wanted me to memorize those conjugations and test them), but if I hadn't taken it, I don't think it would've ruined me for life. I hate grammar, btw, and when I had to take German in secondary school I never memorized all its conjugations either and got good grades just by writing things the way that "sounded right".

 

My kids can take Latin whenever they want to, I suppose. You can successfully learn a language at any age (despite what a lot of people seem to think).

[8filltheheart]

 You can successfully learn a language at any age (despite what a lot of people seem to think).

 

I would hugely qualify that statement and say it is going to be variant depending on the child and whether or not you are discussing an immersion scenario.

 

My dd says she could not have studied Russian successfully earlier.  She says there are constructions in Russian which took her a long to time to get into her head (so she didn't have to think really hard about them.)

 

She found translating Latin poetry challenging.

 

French, otoh, she does not find at all difficult b/c French constructions are similar to English.

[cjthedog64]

I started my son with SSL in 1st grade.  His memory was truly like a sponge, and I figured it was the best time to start with something easy and fun.  After spending a total of 4 years getting through SSL 1 & 2, I've decided to back off.  We kept getting behind, because of various reasons, and then would have to review in order to get going again.  Eventually, I think he really just wanted to know what would happen to Simion in the videos.  We've ended up spending a lot more time than I ever expected, getting him to start reading fluently in English, and that's definitely a priority over Latin.  Now that he's a rising 5th grader, we really need to focus more on reading to learn, and catching up in writing.  My plan was to start with Latin for Children next year, to continue with what he'd learned, but I think that the time needs to be spent elsewhere right now.  Plus, with all the review needed because we haven't done any Latin in a few months, it won't be worth it.  If we do any language next year, we may play around with Greek a bit.  We'll be back in ancient history, and he's been really into the whole Percy Jackson thing, so it'll be fun.  In a year or two, if things settle down, I'd love to get back to Latin, and definitely let him pick a modern language if he's interested.  But we've got to get the rest of things under control first.

 

[MinivanMom]

I didn't think we would ever do Latin; I felt that a modern language was the priority. For many years, I told people that we were "mostly classical, except we don't do Latin". My kids have studied French starting in 1st grade, and, as a monolingual American, I just could not imagine the possibility of tackling another language.

 

Well, oldest dd decided that she desperately wanted to learn Latin so she started Latin "late" in 6th grade, and that has been going great, much better than I ever would have imagined. She is old enough and mature enough to really tackle Latin, and I have become a convert to all the Latin benefits. I also would not have started any earlier than 6th grade. She has mastered the grammar needed to undertake Latin in a serious way, but the language is still new and fresh and exciting to her. My younger children are following that same pattern of starting French in 1st, then Latin in 6th.

 

So I guess I've become an unintentional advocate for starting Latin in middle school.

[Jackie]

Personally, I can't get behind any of the reasons I've read about to teach/learn Latin as a language. Vocabuarly or phrases--yes, the whole language--no.

I will never teach or require Latin, if the boys want to learn it at some point they can knock themselves out but it isn't something I'd allow to usurp actual HS time/subjects that I think are important.

 

I value and invest in modern, living languages.

Easier just to quote this rather than rephrase it and type it as my own opinion. My 5yo daughter is extremely interested in language, so we focus on one living language, play with another, and have rough plans to get to at least conversational level in three foreign languages before high school, as well as explicitly studying English grammar. But Latin will only be added if she wants it.

[Slache]

I didn't think we would ever do Latin; I felt that a modern language was the priority. For many years, I told people that we were "mostly classical, except we don't do Latin". My kids have studied French starting in 1st grade, and, as a monolingual American, I just could not imagine the possibility of tackling another language.

 

Well, oldest dd decided that she desperately wanted to learn Latin so she started Latin "late" in 6th grade, and that has been going great, much better than I ever would have imagined. She is old enough and mature enough to really tackle Latin, and I have become a convert to all the Latin benefits. I also would not have started any earlier than 6th grade. She has mastered the grammar needed to undertake Latin in a serious way, but the language is still new and fresh and exciting to her. My younger children are following that same pattern of starting French in 1st, then Latin in 6th.

 

So I guess I've become an unintentional advocate for starting Latin in middle school.

 

It was my plan to start in 6th for that exact reason. It just seems that so many are beginning in Kindergarten or 1st and I was afraid I would regret waiting.

[SeaConquest]

We've started early with my oldest, but I am not convinced that this is the best plan. I'm also not really convinced that there is necessarily something special about Latin that can't be learned from the study of modern languages. But, we are forging ahead with Latin because my son has an interest.

[Lawyer&Mom]

I personally started Latin as a ninth grader. I think I would have really enjoyed it in Middle School. I wouldn't start earlier than that. I think the benefits of Latin come from parts to whole instruction. For elementary I'd prefer a whole to parts approach with a modern language.

[Miss Tick]

I didn't vote, my oldest are entering 5th and I don't feel like I have enough experience to vote.

 

That said, we started with casual Spanish instruction early, K or 1, with standard fun stuff and my functional-only ability. By 3rd I stayed to feel like we were maxing out what I could teach off the cuff. We started GSWL and in 4th moved to BBoLL. I have intentionally tied the two together with discussions of similarities and differences and it has really revitalized our Spanish studies. I don't know of any other language I could have successfully taught at home without investing in some serious self-study up front. In the next few years if one or both have to give way to some other subject, so be it. I think they grounding they have now in both languages will only help. We spend about 20 minutes a day each, which doesn't feel like much - especially compared to math! LOL

[skimomma]

My dd just (very) successfully finished Lukeion Latin 1 this year as a 6th grader.  We started with LFC in 3rd grade and that was the sweet spot for my kid.  We did LFC A-C in 3rd-5th.  This was a nice gentle introduction and basically eliminated our need to do grammar and vocabulary.  I would argue that logic skills and spelling were also "covered."  I was slow to warm to the idea that Latin was a good idea and worth the hassle.  I never took it.  I begrudgingly did it after reading about the benefits on this board.  I was floored at how much *I* benefitted from learning Latin along with dd.

 

There were days during the time that I taught dd Latin at home that she struggled and wanted to quit.  After completing her first year of Lukeion, dd has thanked me several times for sticking it out.  She is already seeing the benefits in her writing and reading comprehension.  She is very happy to be continuing on in Lukeion next year and also happy to have started early enough that there will be plenty of time to work on a modern language while still at home.

[KrissiK]

I have three kids who are going through Latin so far. Started them all in third grade with Memoria Press. It's worked out great for us. We started Greek last year. Spent the year learning the alphabet. Now we're working through Elementary Greek and it's going smoothly. Having a strong Latin foundation has made Greek easy.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Personally, I can't get behind any of the reasons I've read about to teach/learn Latin as a language. Vocabuarly or phrases--yes, the whole language--no.

I will never teach or require Latin, if the boys want to learn it at some point they can knock themselves out but it isn't something I'd allow to usurp actual HS time/subjects that I think are important.

 

I value and invest in modern, living languages.

We started with Spanish due to persistant asking from Ds. It was early (like PreK). Latin was added when he began to really want to learn the Spanish as a language (not immersion, not playing games, not vocab, not memorizing phrases, but real language study with academic terms/diagramming and parsing/grammatical study). Ds was 6. Latin allowed my son to take off in Spanish. It allowed him to really understand the concept of language, not just speak it. As much as this might possible with other modern languages, so much emphasis is placed on speaking that really delving into a study of the concept of language is pushed to the side until significantly older. Latin materials are designed with grammatical, dense instruction in mind as young as high school or middle school so they can be used by elementary kids easily.

 

Without the Latin, his Japanese study would be very difficult. The languages are completely different, but the concepts of time elements, implied prepositions, appositives, declensions, formal vesus vulgar, etc are the sorts of information that transfer between languages because they are the study of communication, not just repeating/speaking. Ds now knows what to ask so that he can learn rather than just studying whatever. His brain can directly make connections which it woukdn't without the Latin.

 

So Latin is not some end in and of itself. It is a tool to learn how to learn so that the other languages flow. It is banking time so the later learning comes almost second nature.

[luuknam]

I would hugely qualify that statement and say it is going to be variant depending on the child and whether or not you are discussing an immersion scenario.

 

Sorry. I was more thinking of older people, since a lot of people seem to think you can't successfully learn a foreign language if you start learning it after age x (insert your favorite number for x). And yes, immersion makes things easier (at any age). I don't know Russian, so I can't comment on that. The only foreign languages I have (had) a reasonable level of proficiency in are: English, German, French, Spanish, and Thai. I've dabbled in Latin, Mandarin, and Hindi. One of the downsides of knowing multiple foreign languages is that you do forget things if you don't use them. Even my native language (Dutch) is sort of rusty, and not as fluent as my English, even though I lived in NL for 19 out of my 30 years.

[SnMomof7]

Is there a specific, convincing argument for starting Latin in 7th as opposed to 9th?

[8filltheheart]

Is there a specific, convincing argument for starting Latin in 7th as opposed to 9th?

 

No. We start in middle school b/c my kids tend to specialize in high school.  They tend to take multiple classes in areas of interests which reduces their time for other subjects.

[umsami]

I took Latin in 6th grade.  I only took one year, and regret not taking more.

 

It was one of those classes that I wish I had paid more attention in.  LOL  It helped me with other modern languages, grammar (English and other languages), science, and vocabulary.   

[Bluegoat]

I voted 7th, but I really mean "around age 12 or 13" and even that would depend a lot on other circumstances.  I wouldn't be adverse to high school for students that had a heavier middle school load.

 

Before that I would tend to study a modern language, ideally one where they can have access to people who actually speak it.  While Latin can involve a fair amount of memorization which younger kids are capable of, I also think it is essentially a more abstract topic that benefits from the ability to conceptualize more abstract language ideas.  I'm not keen on just learning memory information without the structure that goes with it or ability to use it at all even for text that has been designed for beginner students, and that is IMO what you tend to see in courses designed for younger kids.  I did song school Latin when my kids were younger, and it was fun enough but in hindsight I think pretty much a waste of teaching time on my part.

 

My feeling generally though is that a student in North America who has even one extra language that they are capable in, and a sound knowledge of English grammar (and I am speaking of the basics a student could get in a reasonable amount of time,) is going to be well ahead of most other North American students and able to go on if they choose.  It's a limitation we have here compared to Europe that immersion environments, or even one where a particular language is spoken around a fair bit as a minority language, is not always so readily come by.

[Dmmetler]

We started when DD wanted to-at age 5, plus a couple of years of Greek and Spanish. Now. Heading into middle school, she's ready to do Latin more seriously, so we're essentially starting over. I don't regret starting early, but I also don,'t consider it "real". The school she wants to attend doesn't offer Latin, so she may be stopping Latin as a formal study by high school.

[GarciaFamily]

I was slightly obsessed with language aquistion for awhile. We are starting this year, K, and we will see how it goes! We are enjoying bits-n-pieces of French at the moment. :)

[ScoutTN]

Mid to late elementary is working well for us, but my oldest is only 10, so speaking from limited experience. Logic stage coming up and hormones may mean all bets are off. ;)

 

Start after reading is solid and other language arts are making steady progress.Get an intro and have fun with it before hitting it full speed in middle school and finish up in early high school while beginning a modern language. That's the plan. I am sure it will get tweaked as we go and adapted for my two very different students.

 

Anyone listen to Joanna Hensley's Latin webinars?

[Classical Katharine]

Can I say it depends on the child? You could have one child raring to go and a shame to hold back at age 8 or 9, strong in English grammar and ready to benefit, and another who might do better waiting.

 

It also depends on your priorities. Some are sure those elementary years should be used acquiring facts through chants and so on, for later use, and others find they or their children do better with facts presented in context, and so prefer to start Latin later.
 

I think a lot of problems occur when the child and the program aren't well-matched. In particular, the pace at which a program accelerates is not always made clear or taken into account. A multi-year program should accelerate, since no matter how old you are when you begin, you'll be a faster learner two years later. But how fast does it accelerate?

 

If you put a child into a program that accelerates faster than he or she can, things work for a while and then they fall apart. OTOH you can waste your time and your child's in a program that doesn't accelerate fast enough. Getting a good match and therefore a successful experience is really important.

 

 

 

 

[sanjay12]

As soon as your little one starts to copy you, go ahead and chant declinsion and conjugation endings--you'll be amazed at how effortlessly they pick it up and how much it lets you skip in instructions down the road.

[MysteryJen]

Whenever the child wants to. Or 9th grade if they can't decide on a foreign language.