No School in Two Years

[happypamama]

I love this! It could be an inspirational poster:

 

Mom is pregnant. Do school anyway.

A baby was born. Do school anyway.

A toddler is getting into everything. Do school anyway.

Relatives get sick. Do school anyway.

Grandmas die. Do school anyway.

You're preparing kids for heaven, not Harvard. Do school anyway.

Your state has no homeschool oversight. Do school anyway.

Education is important, so do school anyway.

 

Then maybe there could be a picture of mom at the kitchen table surrounded by kids or on the couch reading a book aloud or clinging to a tree branch or something.

I agree with this so much. But.

 

I think one of the things about homeschooling is that we are able to be flexible. We ARE able to take several weeks off when a new baby arrives, and we ARE able to take several months off occasionally when dealing with a seriously ill grandparent or an infant with major health issues. We don't have to send our children off to school, when they're hurting and worrying and just need reassurance and togetherness more than math. Math is good. Reading is good. They're important, so important. But I think we need to keep it in perspective. Especially for the average or bright student, especially in elementary school, even a year of little bookwork in favor of caring for each other, isn't going to be the end of the world. (High school is different.). I know we know this, but I think it bears repeating. It's when months stretch into years and consistently lazy patterns emerge that we have problems. If Mom and Dad are really busy while caring for a sick grandparent for six months, are they going to be providing the additional support at home that kids need in order to succeed in a classroom, especially if the kids also need additional emotional support at that time? I think in some cases, maybe it'd be perfectly okay to say that the kids didn't really learn anything for five or six months, but they made lasting memories of the grandparent and learned a ton about love and care.

 

Now, I don't think this applies to the OP's friend. I think they're beyond that. But for anyone reading this thread who is going through a rough time, I want to reassure them that a few months off from an otherwise solid education isn't going to be the death knell to their children's futures. Our ability to be flexible is a great gift, as long as we use it well.

[MinivanMom]

IMO, time spent comforting the sick and dying is never time misspent.

 

It makes me ill to read things like *Grandma dying? Do school anyway.*

...

[Word Nerd]

Hijack alert: one spring, we were the first in the extended family to head down to the beach house. Upon opening the door, we were hit with a shocking stench of rot and there were 10,000 flies buzzing about the kitchen. My first instinct was, "oh, god, a dead animal is in here somewhere!" Then I walked past the warm fridge. And the source of trouble was apparent. The fridge had broken. The furry condiments were bad, but the capper was the chicken (for crab bait), and hamburger kept in the freezer. Gah! There was also a "soup" at the bottom of the freezer, made from melted ice cream and thawed meat juices.

 

If you can clean that up without heaving, you are a strong, strong woman.

My grandparents were away in their RV and the power went out in their house just down the road from ours. I got the job of cleaning spoiled food out the fridge and freezer while they were away because my parents had to work and I was on a holiday break. Grandma survived the Dust Bowl and the Depression and hated throwing food of any kind away, so quite a few items were likely already unidentifiable even before the electricity went out. I will never forget that smell.

[Kiara.I]

Yes, there's a limit to "scientific investigations" for school.

 

Although, maybe she's managed to do the mummified chicken project, accidentally.  :ack2:

 

Now there's a point.  I mean, technically I have 4-day-old raw chicken on my kitchen counter right now!  Although it is carefully covered in salt, baking powder and baking soda, and sealed inside 2 plastic bags....

[FO4UR]

I've homeschooled through several chaotic, stressful life events, including the traumatic birth of my youngest that nearly resulted in both of our deaths.

 

Yes, we took off days while we were in the hospital, and the first days home.  Yes, we took advantage of some sub-par (in my opinion) materials for the sake of keeping school rolling while mom physically couldn't do the normal stuff.  My SIL offered to take my Big Three dc for a couple of weeks and teach them their normal lessons. I almost took her up on that offer, and probably should have in hind sight.

 

I do think that the baby is sometimes the most important lesson. That's not to say that taking care of a baby can take the place of math and writing. That would be neglectful. It does mean that we take the opportunity to teach our older children how to prioritize people over things and schedules and such. I'm modeling how I want my grandbabies to be cared for in a very real way. (Granted, my 2yo's first 3-word sentence was "Dat my maff!"  or "That's my math!"  We have to include her, bless her heart!)

 

I've homeschooled through stressful moves.  At those times, reading and science lessons and math games were our sanity breaks in the midst of chaos. Our home balance is centered around the routines that build up their educational foundation.  We get out of sorts at times, but we gravitate back quickly. I think it would be impossible to create that atmosphere for someone else's home...and impossible to homeschool successfully building your foundation on other things.  If you are looking for an excuse not to do school today you'll find one. 

 

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Others can compete for the "most rigorous homeschooler" award.  And others can compete for the "most awesome homemaker" award.  And others can compete for the "hoarders" award (I don't want to compete the other way either!)  I think what matters is being in tune with your particular family and it's needs and to take seriously our responsibility as parents - not to be perfect but to do our best.  Are there times when someone's best might not be good enough?  Perhaps.  I've certainly felt that way before.  But I think parents who are seriously responsible also work hard at trying to objectively look at the situation and then deciding what is the best way to handle their particular situation.  We live in countries and a time where we have tons of choices open to us as we try to take care of our families.  My biggest issue with the family that the OP described was that they didn't appear to take their responsibility as parents seriously.  That's way more important to me than anything else.  

[Guest]

I am just not going to get on the bandwagon that says you aren't the real deal if you can't homeschool through any serious situation that hits your family like a cyclone.

 

I will say that I believe, with all my heart, that the children's safety, health and stability are paramount during these times and school is part of that. But why does it mean "keep homeschooling to the death?"

 

Why doesn't it mean "It's your job,along with your spouse, to figure it out -- depending on your situation and your own status, you might need to figure out how to modify homeschooling or you might need to enroll some kids in school -- consider the whole family's needs, including your own. Don't just tread water, and don't bury yourself by failing to recognize you need help."

But, Tibbie, isn't that what is being said? The disagreement is with those who say it's fine to veg out long term while the kids go feral.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Kids schooled in b&m settings don't get extended time off for sick relatives  because learning gets missed. That is the reason for attendance policies, even though many homeschoolers want to throw out dollar signs around it.

 

 

I don't think we need to go to extremes as homeschoolers.  Obviously taking off three months or a year for the death of a loved one would be inappropriate.  However, schools have set schedules where I can move our schedule (well, and do!).  We can school into May if we need to (generally, I like to be done sometime the beginning of April which will not be happening this year, but I prefer that as we live in Texas so I would like to school in July/August, not May or Oct when the weather is nice).  So where a school kid can't take off two weeks because grandma died, my kids certainly will be!  I will be spending an extended time in Houston.  We will likely do something pleasant towards the end of that time. And we may do school-lite for a week or two upon restarting.  Because as homeschoolers, I can change the schedule.  

 

Now, I do totally get that the whole point of this part of the discussion is because people take WAY too much license to put off schooling for life.  Totally get it.  And I totally get that it is inappropriate.  But taking off more than the couple days public school is going to grant is okay too.

 

This discussion is actually good for me this week.  We had a MAJOR catastrophe last Thursday.  Yesterday morning, I told myself to get it together and do school.  I didn't manage to do what I would have liked, but my kids got any education at all yesterday AND I set it up that they will get a normal education starting today.  So less than a week for a life-altering event.  Not too shabby, if I do say so myself.  I do think that the reason it was SO fast was directly related to this thread :)  Of course, I wasn't going to take off weeks on end at this point anyway.  We would like to be able to take any time at all off this spring.

[Pam in CT]

The discussion of how to respond appropriately to a one-off medical crisis is IMO a different issue than the original OP.

 

The OP spoke to a chronic state of affairs that has been ongoing for 2+ years, which from the OP's direct observation certainly sounds unsustainable and unfair, if not actually physically unhealthy, from the perspective of the children.  Not necessarily reportable, but given that the OP has been asked (whether for validation or actual assistance in digging out) not MYOB either.

 

On the general question of how to respond to a death or acute medical crisis -- for me, it's instructive to think it through from the vantage point of other types of work.  People take time off for the death of a family member and to settle the estate; such time off is measured in days or weeks.  People also take longer medical leave (if available) or unpaid time to care for chronically ill relatives, but in so doing they are explicitly acknowledging to their employers that in the interim the work has to be picked up by someone else.  

 

Homeschooling is a JOB.  If medical issues or grief-related depression following a death or other chronic circumstances prevent the work from getting done, and the weeks start turning into months, it's time to look for other ways or resources to get it done.

[unsinkable]

IMO...it is healthy and necessary to set aside days to rejoice and grieve. To not do that is as extreme as not schooling at all for excessive lengths of time. 

 

If someone takes off a week or two or even three! for a birth or funeral or serious illness, I think it is fine. What is the alternative? Not acknowledging these major life alternating events (especially the tough ones) just delays the inevitable processing that needs to occur with these situations.

 

Imagine a brand new homeschooler whose family suffers a horrible loss due to a violent death days after starting homeschooling. Would you tell her: "Do school" ? I sure wouldn't. I also wouldn't tell her to stop doing school for a year or so, either. I'm glad when it happened to me I didn't hear either extreme. 

 

I think there are more reasonable ways address the need to "Do school" on a steady, consistent basis than to make a list that includes "grandma dying? Do school!"

[TammyS]

IMO...it is healthy and necessary to set aside days to rejoice and grieve. To not do that is as extreme as not schooling at all for excessive lengths of time. 

 

If someone takes off a week or two or even three! for a birth or funeral or serious illness, I think it is fine. What is the alternative? Not acknowledging these major life alternating events (especially the tough ones) just delays the inevitable processing that needs to occur with these situations.

 

Imagine a brand new homeschooler whose family suffers a horrible loss due to a violent death days after starting homeschooling. Would you tell her: "Do school" ? I sure wouldn't. I also wouldn't tell her to stop doing school for a year or so, either. I'm glad when it happened to me I didn't hear either extreme. 

 

I think there are more reasonable ways address the need to "Do school" on a steady, consistent basis than to make a list that includes "grandma dying? Do school!"

 

:iagree:   I've seen  number of mentions in this thread that if the kids were in school they'd get a few days off, or if it was your job you'd get a few days off, but I just don't think that's a good enough reason.   Those things are examples of how our society, IMO, puts priority on the wrong things, and I reject the notion that I ought to conform to it, even more so that my children ought to conform to it.

 

Of course, I'm also one who believes that my children's formational needs trump their educational needs (though I don't see these things necessarily in opposition to each other).  Perhaps there are great public schools where the teachers aren't hostile to faith and the students aren't steeped in a culture of filth, but that's not been the case anywhere I've lived (including the "not all that bad" schools I went to when I was growing up).  And I would much rather have my children miss a period of time of school (while it wouldn't be ideal, it also wouldn't be the end of the world if the kid didn't go to college until 19 or 20) than to go and steep themselves in the culture of any public school I've ever been in.  Because while I don't think it's Heaven OR Harvard, it's is 100% Heaven over Harvard, if I'm in the position of having to choose.  Because if the kid doesn't go to heaven, then who gives a crap about their career?

 

I guess it comes back to the question, is the woman in question from the OP in a temporary (even if long) slump for some reason, or is she just really not homeschooling?  Those are two different issues. 

 

ETA:

Krishnamurti: “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.â€

[FaithManor]

I think that one thing that is important to do is for the person who is the primary educator to actually think long and hard about how much school time can be taken off in a life event or medical crisis, and be made up appropriately. We tend to forget that someday our kids have to leave the sanctuary and haven of our homes and compete in the real world for jobs, college scholarships, trade school seats, and licensing positions with other kids and for the most part, those other kids went to school 9 months of the year with limited absences

 

One thing that hasn't happened with PS and privately schooled students is that they got to just take three months off from school and NOT make that up. They weren't allowed to literally opt out of being educated. We shouldn't advocate for that within the homeschool community either.

 

So there has to be a plan. That can be taking time off for a birth or a death, BUT with the discipline to make up that twelve weeks in the summer. It could be "we had a death in the family, had some travel, had lots of interruptions so we aren't going to take a Christmas or Spring Break this year." It could be that a tutor is hired to keep the kids on track in the core. It could be that auntie comes down to the house to work assignments with children while you handle legal paperwork.

 

Think of it this way. Once high school hits, all your flexibility is gone. Taking large amounts of time off when credits MUST be accumulated regularly, when ACT's and SAT's are looming, when transcripts must be issued on time, when there is reporting to colleges and trade schools that must take place, when skills so rapidly build on upon another (must get algebra 1 out of the way in order to take the first semester of chemistry, algebra 2 must be completed in order to take non-trig based physics, must have the five paragraph standard essay mastered by the time scholarship season rolls around, can't get two years of a modern foreign language in if the first was never completed, can't take AP music theory if basic music theory was never completed, ....there is a reason that homeschooling through high school is one of the biggest jobs any parent will ever have. Deficits in skills show up like mini-grand canyons. Remediation can occur, but the clock is ticking, and as a general rule, if the child has a career track in mind, remediating in every subject in the core means that the student may be 20 before they are ready for college writing or college biology or a medical billing class, or whatever. Enrolling them in the public school with massive deficits will only result in a neuro typical child being relegated to special ed because they can't accomplish remediation and high school in four years either. How is any of this fair or right? It's not. You are messing up your child's life. So there has to be a balance between acknowledging that life happens, and that we also have to suck it up and get on with life.

 

People tend to live in the "here and now". It's the long term that comes back to bite you hard. These kids are human beings that have a fundamental right to the opportunity to learn. So, frankly, large amounts of time off because life got rough MIGHT work when they are five years old, but it doesn't work for them when they are ten. Developmentally so much time is lost that remediating a ten year old that has never been educated during the three or four years running up to high school is not likely to happen. It just isn't. You've lost the momentum of when learning basic skills was so fast and easy, and now looming on the horizon are much, much harder skills that must be gained ON TOP OF the base and in a short period of time. It is immoral to do to the child, plain and simple. So either have a plan to make up the time off and kick yourself in the butt to get back to educating your child so those massive deficits just simply do not occur, or put them in school where at least they have an opportunity to learn because taking away opportunity is wrong. It's not your life. It is your child's life, and he or she will not be a child forever. What you choose to do affects them as adults, and it may very well take choices and opportunities away from them in the future.

 

Ask anyone who teaches adult literacy and numeracy classes. They've seen it time and again. Not learning when young takes away a world of opportunity from the adult. They may SOME DAY catch up, but until then, life is very hard. Our message should be that children are not property. They aren't our pets. They are people with rights, and that includes the right to learn. Frankly, if our PS's operated from that philosophy, maybe they'd be better. At least opportunity is created. Running around like feral cats at home for six months is NOT opportunity.

[unsinkable]

 

 

Think of it this way. Once high school hits, all your flexibility is gone. Taking large amounts of time off when credits MUST be accumulated regularly, when ACT's and SAT's are looming, when transcripts must be issued on time, when there is reporting to colleges and trade schools that must take place, when skills so rapidly build on upon another (must get algebra 1 out of the way in order to take the first semester of chemistry, algebra 2 must be completed in order to take non-trig based physics, must have the five paragraph standard essay mastered by the time scholarship season rolls around, can't get two years of a modern foreign language in if the first was never completed, can't take AP music theory if basic music theory was never completed, ....there is a reason that homeschooling through high school is one of the biggest jobs any parent will ever have. Deficits in skills show up like mini-grand canyons. Remediation can occur, but the clock is ticking, and as a general rule, if the child has a career track in mind, remediating in every subject in the core means that the student may be 20 before they are ready for college writing or college biology or a medical billing class, or whatever. Enrolling them in the public school with massive deficits will only result in a neuro typical child being relegated to special ed because they can't accomplish remediation and high school in four years either. How is any of this fair or right? It's not. You are messing up your child's life. So there has to be a balance between acknowledging that life happens, and that we also have to suck it up and get on with life.

 

People tend to live in the "here and now". It's the long term that comes back to bite you hard. 

 

This mentality does not apply to everyone, as difficult as it is to believe.

 

There are some kids who are homeschooling because they CANNOT be on this track. It would be detrimental to their health to such an extent that the 'long term' might not even occur. 

[Ipsey]

My husband is a scientist. We've had maggots preserved in the freezer on purpose (and insects in the fridge, too). Imagine the horror of the sweet girl who spent the afternoon with us and wanted to be helpful and make lunch and looked in the freezer to see what we had.

 

The scream could be heard a block away.

 

 

Heh. My husband is also a scientist.

He used to go out in the field all summer and do data collection...and tangential tick collection on his person.  Each night he and his team would pluck the ticks off their bodies.

 

I didn't know he was actually collecting them to show the kids at the end of the season until I opened a sour cream container on his dresser one day (at the end of the season).

 

There they were, perhaps 80 ticks floating in an ocean of rubbing alcohol.  

 

If I'd have dropped it, I tell you, he'd have been cleaning it up!

[FaithManor]

This mentality does not apply to everyone, as difficult as it is to believe.

 

There are some kids who are homeschooling because they CANNOT be on this track. It would be detrimental to their health to such an extent that the 'long term' might not even occur. 

I am not recommending this for everyone. I did use the terms neurotypical.

 

The reality is that the exceptions should not form the rule. Most kids are capable of high school work. Most are capable of getting a diploma and will need post high school training of some kind to be gainfully employed. That is who the message is for, and so I guess I should have been more clear about that.

 

This message is not for students who will never be able to attain that level. But then again, in these instances in which kids have serious issues that parents are trying to address and have opted for home education, I've seen literally heroic efforts made by the parents to help them progress as far as they can. Literally heroic. I am amazed! Truly. The parents that post over on the special needs boards impress my socks off!

 

It is interesting to me how many are okay with reducing educational opportunity for neurotypical kids while others with special needs children are moving heaven and earth, and clawing for every inch of education and development they can manage for their special little ones. The image is rather startling actually.

 

What I am saying having served as a school guidance counselor, and a public school teacher, and a private school teacher, and a music therapist for special needs children, and witnessing many homeschoolers that sit around without a plan and let life pass by for weeks and months, assuming that at some point they'll get back at it or their kids will suddenly begin learning again, while it eventually accumulates to years, the kids that were capable of learning do not magically, suddenly get an education. It's not okay. It doesn't play out like that.

 

Again, this message is not for special needs kiddoes.

[Garga]

People. Come on.

 

The "Grandma dying? Do school." post doesn't mean "do school at grandma's funeral." Does anyone really believe that? Or are people arguing that point just to play devil's advocate? I can't believe that anyone would think Joanne is advocating that you can't take off 1-2 weeks for a death. Isn't it clear she means you don't take off months or years for grandma's death?

 

You take off 1-2 weeks when there's a death to breathe in and out and then it's back to school. If it's an ongoing issue, you take 1-2 weeks off to regroup and buy different materials that will accomodate the chronic condition and then it's back to school.

 

The "Do School" post is saying that there is NO REASON to take off school for TWO SOLID YEARS. (Yes, my voice is being raised, though I'm trying not to.) I've tried to be polite, but the situation in the OP is driving me nuts. Her 10 year old should be in 4th or 5th grade. The child hasn't been in school for years?? I want to scream! That's soooo wrong. Especially because it sounds like mom doesn't do it because she's busy blogging? There's no dying grandma here.

 

You cannot (cannot!) stop schooling for two solid years, without any plan to implement school in the future, and think it'll all work out in the end. It's delusional. Completely illogical. She needs to stop pretending she homeschools.

 

You know what? I'll even grant that people can even take off a few months of homeschooling IF (and only if) they plan on schooling through all the normal breaks (summer, Christmas) to make up for it. That way it's still roughly the same amount of school for the year, just done at different times. But you don't just stop school because you are blogging or have a baby or there is a death.

 

So yes: Grandma dying? Do school.

[unsinkable]

I am not recommending this for everyone. I did use the terms neurotypical.

 

The reality is that the exceptions should not form the rule. Most kids are capable of high school work. Most are capable of getting a diploma and will need post high school training of some kind to be gainfully employed. That is who the message is for, and so I guess I should have been more clear about that.

 

This message is not for students who will never be able to attain that level. But then again, in these instances in which kids have serious issues that parents are trying to address and have opted for home education, I've seen literally heroic efforts made by the parents to help them progress as far as they can. Literally heroic. I am amazed! Truly. The parents that post over on the special needs boards impress my socks off!

 

It is interesting to me how many are okay with reducing educational opportunity for neurotypical kids while others with special needs children are moving heaven and earth, and clawing for every inch of education and development they can manage for their special little ones. The image is rather startling actually.

 

What I am saying having served as a school guidance counselor, and a public school teacher, and a private school teacher, and a music therapist for special needs children, and witnessing many homeschoolers that sit around without a plan and let life pass by for weeks and months, assuming that at some point they'll get back at it or their kids will suddenly begin learning again, while it eventually accumulates to years, the kids that were capable of learning do not magically, suddenly get an education. It's not okay. It doesn't play out like that.

 

Again, this message is not for special needs kiddoes.

 

My statement is not limited to "special needs kiddoes." 

 

Some students might be on that track and be derailed by mental health issues, physcial health issues, accidents or injuries. The external timetables need to be abandoned. For years. Some kids have to get off that track permanently. 

 

You've thrown in so much stuff that I didn't say or never advocated that I'm not even going to address. 

[unsinkable]

People. Come on.

 

The "Grandma dying? Do school." post doesn't mean "do school at grandma's funeral." Does anyone really believe that? Or are people arguing that point just to play devil's advocate? I can't believe that anyone would think Joanne is advocating that you can't take off 1-2 weeks for a death. Isn't it clear she means you don't take off months or years for grandma's death?

 

You take off 1-2 weeks when there's a death to breathe in and out and then it's back to school. If it's an ongoing issue, you take 1-2 weeks off to regroup and buy different materials that will accomodate the chronic condition and then it's back to school.

 

The "Do School" post is saying that there is NO REASON to take off school for TWO SOLID YEARS. (Yes, my voice is being raised, though I'm trying not to.) I've tried to be polite, but the situation in the OP is driving me nuts. Her 10 year old should be in 4th or 5th grade. The child hasn't been in school for years?? I want to scream! That's soooo wrong. Especially because it sounds like mom doesn't do it because she's busy blogging? There's no dying grandma here.

 

You cannot (cannot!) stop schooling for two solid years, without any plan to implement school in the future, and think it'll all work out in the end. It's delusional. Completely illogical. She needs to stop pretending she homeschools.

 

You know what? I'll even grant that people can even take off a few months of homeschooling IF (and only if) they plan on schooling through all the normal breaks (summer, Christmas) to make up for it. That way it's still roughly the same amount of school for the year, just done at different times. But you don't just stop school because you are blogging or have a baby or there is a death.

 

So yes: Grandma dying? Do school.

 

You've contradicted yourself.

 

Is it: Grandma dying, do school.

 

Or Take time off if you are planning on making up it?

 

Because the second is close to what I am advocating. The first: no. Just USING it in this context is flip and dismissive.

[albeto.]

Heh. My husband is also a scientist.

He used to go out in the field all summer and do data collection...and tangential tick collection on his person.  Each night he and his team would pluck the ticks off their bodies.

 

I didn't know he was actually collecting them to show the kids at the end of the season until I opened a sour cream container on his dresser one day (at the end of the season).

 

There they were, perhaps 80 ticks floating in an ocean of rubbing alcohol.  

 

If I'd have dropped it, I tell you, he'd have been cleaning it up!

lol! Never never never open an unfamiliar sour cream container in the fridge! Or yogurt! And if you see a Nesle Quick container in the back of the fridge, give it wide berth, too!

[FaithManor]

lol! Never never never open an unfamiliar sour cream container in the fridge! Or yogurt! And if you see a Nesle Quick container in the back of the fridge, give it wide birth, too!

I learned that the hard way with my middle boy, LOL! The things he collects...budding biologists can be dangerous to the health and well being of your refrigerator and freezer! :D

 

I haven't been able to get him to properly label his "specimens".

[Haiku]

It's not your life. It is your child's life, and he or she will not be a child forever. What you choose to do affects them as adults, and it may very well take choices and opportunities away from them in the future.

 

Exactly.

 

Our dd came to us at 11 with virtually no education. She did manage to go off to college at 19, but only because she went to a very specialized school with a primary focus on getting non-college-ready kids college ready. She spent a ridiculous amount of energy making up for lost time and graduated high school completely burned out. We advocated a gap year but she felt like she was already "behind" so she plunged into college. It's tough going for her. She has to work much harder than everyone else which leads to more stress and burnout. She's having trouble coping effectively.

 

So, while it could be done, it's not ideal and shouldn't be done. If a parent can't find it in themselves to continue a child's education without significant lapses of time, the parent needs to find someone who can. It's not just about the parent and their level of stress and coping ability. It's about the child's life. No one has the right to treat a child's future cavalierly.

[SKL]

While that may be true, children go to school, adults go to work, sports are played, groceries are shopped for, clothing is laundered, and countless other daily life activities are accomplished by millions and billions of people every day even while a loved one is dying. Life does not stop. Children still need what they need.

 

I think this depends very much upon the individuals involved.

 

I haven't had a close loved one die, but I could see myself being one of those "didn't miss a beat" people.  I just do better when things keep on moving.  But I think that is unusual.  I actually think people may view me as cold because of it.

 

I would play it by ear with my kids.  There is no point trying to do school if the kids aren't able to concentrate and need to talk some things out etc.  If this went on long enough, I might go find some books about a related subject so they were at least reading and journaling.  I could see making a study unit out of one or more things Grandma used to enjoy doing.

 

Beyond a few weeks of upheaval, IMO homeschoolers need to be willing to call in reinforcements - whether that be another homeschooler, tutors, online courses, or b&m school.  Not only because kids need to be learning, but because a long-term lack of structure will make it harder and harder to get back on track.

[FaithManor]

You've contradicted yourself.

 

Is it: Grandma dying, do school.

 

Or Take time off if you are planning on making up it?

 

Because the second is close to what I am advocating. The first: no. Just USING it in this context is flip and dismissive.

I think I said in my first post that the primary educator has the responsibility to PLAN for how time off will be made up for life events. I didn't indicate that no school for an extended length of time is appropriate, nor did I indicate that no time should be taken off for a life event either.  I refuse to advocate that months and even years off is OKAY, period. So in this instance, I know that I am at odds with other homeschoolers. Many do believe that this is fine.

 

I am also very aware that despite this being a classical education board sponsored by a person for whom education is near and dear, and who has made it her life work to help homechooling parents achieve at a high level on behalf of their neurotypical students, by in large not being the cheerleading squad for letting education slide is ironically, NOT popular. I am not offended. It is what it is.

 

Maybe I'm not communicating very well. I'm willing to admit that too.

[Haiku]

You've contradicted yourself.

 

Is it: Grandma dying, do school.

 

Or Take time off if you are planning on making up it?

.

It's not a contradiction. First best is not taking months off. Second best is taking those months and making them up in a reasonable time frame so you stay on track. Not acceptable is taking months off and shrugging your shoulders about it and blaming it on "the season of life." Be consistent in schooling your kids or find someone who will be. Kids don't learn what they need to learn by watching mom wallow in depression or schlepping in and out of lawyers' offices.

[Garga]

You've contradicted yourself.

 

Is it: Grandma dying, do school.

 

Or Take time off if you are planning on making up it?

 

Because the second is what I am advocating. The first: no. Just USING it in this context is flip and dismissive.

 

 

I'm absolutely not contradicting myself.  This is my point:

 

Do you really believe that when people say "Grandma dying?  Do school" that they mean to do school on the day she dies and on the day of her funeral?  Do you honestly believe that's what is meant?  That might be the problem here.  That is NOT what is being said.  The second is what is being said.  It seems that you're reading the "Grandma dying, do school" statement entirely too literally.  It doesn't mean to do school at the funeral home.  It means that you take off up to 2 weeks and then any time beyond that is handled by changing curric or changing when schooling is done so the children continue to be educated through the crisis.  

 

Some people will say, "Well, grandma died," and stop school for months on end and never make it up.  The above is saying, "Grandma died?  Do school," meaning that you take a break and regroup, but you don't stop for months, which some people actually do.  Stopping education for months on end using grandma as an excuse is not acceptable.  That's the point.  You can't use a death as a reason to stop schooling. You find another way.  You "do school."  The other way may be changing curic or changing what time of year you school, but schooling doesn't stop.  It is still done.

[unsinkable]

I'm absolutely not contradicting myself.  This is my point:

 

Do you really believe that when people say "Grandma dying?  Do school" that they mean to do school on the day she dies and on the day of her funeral?  Do you honestly believe that's what is meant?  That might be the problem here.  That is NOT what is being said.  The second is what is being said.  It seems that you're reading the "Grandma dying, do school" statement entirely too literally.  It doesn't mean to do school at the funeral home.  It means that you take off up to 2 weeks and then any time beyond that is handled by changing curric or changing when schooling is done so the children continue to be educated through the crisis.  

 

Some people will say, "Well, grandma died," and stop school for months on end and never make it up.  The above is saying, "Grandma died?  Do school," meaning that you take a break and regroup, but you don't stop for months, which some people actually do.  Stopping education for months on end using grandma as an excuse is not acceptable.  That's the point.  You can't use a death as a reason to stop schooling. You find another way.  You "do school."  The other way may be changing curic or changing what time of year you school, but schooling doesn't stop.  It is still done.

 

Yes, I really believe it. And I do believe to include, "grandma dying, do school" is a deliberate addition in order to make the point that there is no real reason to not "do school." 

[teachermom2834]

I am in the camp if NOT taking extended time off for life events. We are in the middle of a move for a job relocation and it is stressful but we are still plugging as much as possible. When we are actually moving and possibly living out of a hotel, etc, my first grader will take a break and my 6th grader will likely have time off from formal schooling as well. They will still be reading, watching educational tv, the first grader will be doing crafts and artwork. We will have some to make up over summer but the couple months off won't sink us even if everything isn't made up. My 6th grader has schooled consistently for nearly 8 years now. He has solid skills and study habits and his whole life experience has been consistent schooling. So, I think there is some flexibility for life events if the family culture is that consistent schooling is the norm. It doesn't have to be quite as rigid as what some are bristling at, I don't think.

 

My high schoolers will not be taking time off. Their core subjects are mostly outsourced. That has been a huge blessing. We would not have taken off of school but it would have been very stressful to be managing it all myself. They have been handling their courses with little to no oversight from me. Again, I think that is because their life experience has been one of consistent schooling.

 

So, I think there is some flexibility in homeschooling but to reap the rewards of it the flexibility needs to be in the context of a family culture where education is a priority. There can't be a constant stream of life events that get in the way.

[Garga]

Yes, I really believe it. And I do believe to include, "grandma dying, do school" is a deliberate addition in order to make the point that there is no real reason to not "do school." 

 

 

Ok then.  Now I understand where you're coming from.  I don't agree with you, much in the same way that I see that darn dress as white and gold and am incapable of seeing it as black and blue. 

 

But at least I understand now that you are interpreting it literally while I'm interpreting it in a looser manner.  

[SKL]

I think that if I were a homeschooler, I'd probably do about 20% extra all the time, just because I know stuff is going to come up and I would rather get a head start on it.

 

Some things in life are guaranteed.  Eventual death of loved ones, illness, big stuff breaking, births (for some families), etc.  This needs to be figured into the original plan to homeschool in the first place.  (Of course the really big things like a child in an extended hospital stay are on a whole different level.)

 

Just a random anecdote:  I remember when a friend of mine, then 23yo with a 5yo KG son, was in a bad car accident.  Her husband died instantly, she lost her 8.5mo pregnancy, and she nearly died as well.  Her son had not been in the car.  I was visiting her shortly after the accident, when she was still in the hospital lying in bed.  Her son arrived and after a few minutes of pleasantries, she said, "we have to do homework now."  I could see that it was comforting to the little boy (who was not homeschooled) to have mom direct him to something routine.

[unsinkable]

Ok then.  Now I understand where you're coming from.  I don't agree with you, much in the same way that I see that darn dress as white and gold and am incapable of seeing it as black and blue. 

 

But at least I understand now that you are interpreting it literally while I'm interpreting it in a looser manner.  

 

And how do you think a new homeschooler dealing with a loss might take it?

 

If there is a chance she would take it literally, it is not something I would tell her. What to do during the dying and death of a loved is not something I would reduce to a slogan/pithy statement/etc.

[happypamama]

I think that if I were a homeschooler, I'd probably do about 20% extra all the time, just because I know stuff is going to come up and I would rather get a head start on it.

 

Some things in life are guaranteed. Eventual death of loved ones, illness, big stuff breaking, births (for some families), etc. This needs to be figured into the original plan to homeschool in the first place. (Of course the really big things like a child in an extended hospital stay are on a whole different level.)

 

Just a random anecdote: I remember when a friend of mine, then 23yo with a 5yo KG son, was in a bad car accident. Her husband died instantly, she lost her 8.5mo pregnancy, and she nearly died as well. Her son had not been in the car. I was visiting her shortly after the accident, when she was still in the hospital lying in bed. Her son arrived and after a few minutes of pleasantries, she said, "we have to do homework now." I could see that it was comforting to the little boy (who was not homeschooled) to have mom direct him to something routine.

What a tragic story! The accident, not the homework; I can see why that would have been comforting to the little boy.

 

I know this sort of thing is one reason why I start in early July, when my state allows me to start counting. I did that the years we had July and August newborns, figuring that it would allow me the flexibility to take a full six weeks off if need be. (Not that my kids would have been learning absolutely nothing during six weeks anyway; we have our lives set up so that there's a lot of informal educational value going on, no matter what else is happening.). As I always say when I'm (over)planning for the upcoming year, if I aim for the moon and fall short, I still hit the stars, but not even aiming for the stars is unacceptable to me.

[Chelli]

Well, the ball is in her court. I contacted her yesterday via email, but have yet to hear from her. I basically told her that I'd been thinking about what she told me and if she would like me to help her get a plan in place to do school consistently with her kids that I was willing to help. If she responds in the affirmative, I'll begin asking her more specific questions. If she responds in the negative, I'm not sure what I'll do. Probably put on my brutally honest cap and wind up burning some bridges. I'm not sure if I can call CPS on her. I'm not a mandatory reporter as far as I know. I was when I taught school and I know that dh is since he's a minister, but I'm not. I truly feel she is a good mom, but not a self-disciplined one who does the stuff that needs to be done even when you don't want to do so. I will keep everyone up to date of how things move on from here.

 

This thread took some interesting turns (as I expected from the HIve!) and some of it was laugh out loud funny so thanks for that. I've been really stressed and anxious about the entire situation so all you helped to focus my thoughts on what needed to be done.

 

And in full disclosure, once I returned home from being gone for two weeks with the kids. I spent days getting the house cleaned up and put in order while schooling the kids because I kept thinking about the conversation with my friend. Glad to see it's been "inspiring" to some of you as well.  :lol:

[Joanne]

IMO...it is healthy and necessary to set aside days to rejoice and grieve. To not do that is as extreme as not schooling at all for excessive lengths of time. 

 

If someone takes off a week or two or even three! for a birth or funeral or serious illness, I think it is fine. What is the alternative? Not acknowledging these major life alternating events (especially the tough ones) just delays the inevitable processing that needs to occur with these situations.

 

Imagine a brand new homeschooler whose family suffers a horrible loss due to a violent death days after starting homeschooling. Would you tell her: "Do school" ? I sure wouldn't. I also wouldn't tell her to stop doing school for a year or so, either. I'm glad when it happened to me I didn't hear either extreme. 

 

I think there are more reasonable ways address the need to "Do school" on a steady, consistent basis than to make a list that includes "grandma dying? Do school!"

 

You are hyperfocusing on a detail of an example, out of context.

The context of my post was the culture within the homeschooling community that allows for relaxed and lowered academic standards and "excuses" we give each other and allow that create a culture in which sub-standard academic settings emerge.

 

It's not about a grandmother dylng - it's about the issues relating to the OP. IMO, the homeschooling community is not accurately self-reflective and it is not a good or healthy thing.

[*Lulu*]

In the past two years I have experienced the life happens, do school anyway.

 

Two years ago in January my grandfather, who we lived near and who was my father figure growing up, had a stroke and passed away over a period of three weeks. The first week he was in ICU we made daily trips to the hospital and I spent several days sitting in the waiting room. We still did school. It was bare bones, but it gave the kids a sense of stability and routine in the midst of chaos. We did not school the day of the funeral, or for several days after. For a month following it was the bare bones, just keeping routine.

 

Then, just as we were ramping back into normal, we finally were able to get Punk formally evaluated and ended up with a diagnosis that was not totally unexpected but a difficult to have confirmed all the same. In the same month I had a major health event that was like a grenade being thrown into our lives.

 

We did no school for almost three months. We are not schooling at the level I want now. But, we ARE schooling. We school year round, six days a week, fifty weeks a year, have for years. That is the only reason that we are not crazy behind.

 

This thread has actually been good for me. I frequently freak out about our actual schooling being so different from the way I had envisioned. But if I take a moment to be objective, I am schooling, we are making progress, and my children are thriving.

[elegantlion]

I think as a homeschooler, it's easier to get complacent. We have to set our own deadlines most of the time. When chaos happens, whatever that is, it's easy to let a few days slip into weeks and really the average student is just going to go with the flow, maybe they'll pick one area to focus while mom is trying to keep it all together in the corner with chocolates and a glass of wine/coffee or both. 

 

I've had numerous pick myself up chats and regrouping sessions with ds in the last two years. If he were younger, he'd be in public school. We've modified what high school looked like, but ultimately, I had to gird up my yoga pants and get back to it. It's a continual setting of the sails and keeping at eye on where you want to be. 

 

My previous life experience has always told me to see homeschooling as a job. There is only so much slacking off that can take place before it hinders your ability to do your job. We changed what our version of "intentional homeschooling" looks like - but we're still doing school. 

 

I had several relatives die when I was in middle school and early high school. We got 3-5 days off for the funeral and back at it. I took exactly 4 weeks total off of work during a six month cancer treatment, 3 weeks for surgery, 1 week during radiation tx. I was a good employee, but they couldn't hold my job forever  as much as I wanted to just lounge around for 6 months. 

 

At some point, you have to decide this is what you do and work around whatever situation has arisen. There are plenty of options to get back on track, you just have to pick one. 

 

Time to grieve whatever is important, but grieving doesn't happen in one set period, it's a process and getting back to some normalcy is important too. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I think we should add "gird up my yoga pants" to the lexicon! Well said, elegantlion.

 

Quill, I thought we were all saying the same thing but then a few posts seemed to say the opposite...I've been a little confused along this "grandma dying" bunny trail.

[albeto.]

Chelli, I can't recall, but did your friend experience an event that cut into her schooling or did she just... poop out?

[*Lulu*]

I think we should add "gird up my yoga pants" to the lexicon! Well said, elegantlion.

 

Quill, I thought we were all saying the same thing but then a few posts seemed to say the opposite...I've been a little confused along this "grandma dying" bunny trail.

I agree, "gird up my yoga pants" is completely quote worthy!

[Tsuga]

My statement is not limited to "special needs kiddoes." 

 

Some students might be on that track and be derailed by mental health issues, physcial health issues, accidents or injuries. The external timetables need to be abandoned. For years. Some kids have to get off that track permanently. 

 

You've thrown in so much stuff that I didn't say or never advocated that I'm not even going to address. 

 

How are people with mental health, physical health, accident/injury physical health issues not special needs?

 

What is your definition of special needs?

 

There are those people who do require long-term accommodation and that's fine.

 

By definition, the majority of people do not. The vast majority. That's why special needs are special. 

 

I think what people are saying is, if you do not expect your child to be in a job where these accommodations--three months off for the death of a relative--are going to be provided, probably don't put them in that school situation, either. Life does go on, as tough as it is. Of course you take a week off to go to the funeral. Then you go back. You only have what, four grandparents, right? It's not like this will come up forever.

 

And if you're talking about a child with MS or severe anxiety or who is literally in the hospital at this moment, come on, do you really think anyone's judging? I sure as heck am not.

 

But I do know kids who've had cancer and guess what...they went to school, with a mask, because, to quote one boy's dad, "It ain't over 'till it's over, and we're still planning on a long future for this little guy." They took it easy on him. They also kept living.

[Tsuga]

Well, the ball is in her court. I contacted her yesterday via email, but have yet to hear from her. I basically told her that I'd been thinking about what she told me and if she would like me to help her get a plan in place to do school consistently with her kids that I was willing to help. If she responds in the affirmative, I'll begin asking her more specific questions. If she responds in the negative, I'm not sure what I'll do. Probably put on my brutally honest cap and wind up burning some bridges. I'm not sure if I can call CPS on her. I'm not a mandatory reporter as far as I know. I was when I taught school and I know that dh is since he's a minister, but I'm not. I truly feel she is a good mom, but not a self-disciplined one who does the stuff that needs to be done even when you don't want to do so. I will keep everyone up to date of how things move on from here.

 

This thread took some interesting turns (as I expected from the HIve!) and some of it was laugh out loud funny so thanks for that. I've been really stressed and anxious about the entire situation so all you helped to focus my thoughts on what needed to be done.

 

And in full disclosure, once I returned home from being gone for two weeks with the kids. I spent days getting the house cleaned up and put in order while schooling the kids because I kept thinking about the conversation with my friend. Glad to see it's been "inspiring" to some of you as well.  :lol:

 

You're a good friend and I'm glad to hear this. Good luck to you. Let me know if you need some help researching anything... this family may need a lot of support. 

 

CPS is to save lives. Seems like suggesting summer catch-up-boot-camp and public school or private school might kick her in the pants?

[unsinkable]

I think we should add "gird up my yoga pants" to the lexicon! Well said, elegantlion.

 

Quill, I thought we were all saying the same thing but then a few posts seemed to say the opposite...I've been a little confused along this "grandma dying" bunny trail.

 

 

I'm saying: Take time to grieve. Start doing school after a week or 2 or 3.*

 

I'm also saying IMO it is inappropriate/bad advice/dismissive to reduce someone's death or dying to a little blurb to imply it's not OK to stop homeschooling because of the death or dying.

 

Edited bc of Lulu's reply to me:

 

*I am NOT saying grief is done after 1 or 2 or 3 weeks...and I have (in other posts in this thread and other threads) made the point that grief is a process. That time off in the beginning is the start of the process.

 

[Chelli]

Chelli, I can't recall, but did your friend experience an event that cut into her schooling or did she just... poop out?

 

This kind of gets into the grandma dying scenario...

 

Two years ago when she first mentioned this, she had a four month old at that time, and said that they hadn't been doing school consistently because of being pregnant and now she had a newborn so that made it hard as well. When I talked to her a few weeks ago, no school had been done because it had been difficult for the past two years with the now two year old. 

 

I'm really afraid to ask what's been going on before that because she had twins 5 years before the two year old so I can only imagine how difficult that was. To be honest I'm not sure how much schooling has happened with her 10 year old at all. He would have been 5 when the twins were born. I only met her 3 years ago so this is all speculation as to what was going on in their home before that time. I'm basing my fears on what I know has been happening in the past two years.

 

IMO, she's in over her head, but if she absolutely will NOT send them to ps (there are no private schools in their area nor could they afford it), I'm hoping to steer her toward some kind of online option that will require very little from her.

[*Lulu*]

I'm saying: Take time to grieve. Start doing school after a week or 2 or 3.

 

I'm also saying IMO it is inappropriate/bad advice/dismissive to reduce someone's death or dying to a little blurb to imply it's not OK to stop homeschooling because of the death or dying.

But grief is not confined to a few weeks.

 

Grief after the loss of someone close is ongoing. Months and years after the death it can sneak up and leave you gasping from the pain.

 

I think that modeling that life goes on along side self care within the process of that is very healthy and will serve children better in their lives.

[Lady Florida.]

I think we should add "gird up my yoga pants" to the lexicon! Well said, elegantlion.

 

 

I might have to actually go buy yoga pants just so I can gird them up.

[Katy]

And how do you think a new homeschooler dealing with a loss might take it?

 

If there is a chance she would take it literally, it is not something I would tell her. What to do during the dying and death of a loved is not something I would reduce to a slogan/pithy statement/etc.

 

I think most people who are interested in homeschooling understand tenses.

 

Grandma's dying is not the same as Grandma's dead.

[unsinkable]

But grief is not confined to a few weeks.

 

Grief after the loss of someone close is ongoing. Months and years after the death it can sneak up and leave you gasping from the pain.

 

I think that modeling that life goes on along side self care within the process of that is very healthy and will serve children better in their lives.

 

I know it is hard to keep track of who is posting what but I haven't given that impression...in fact, I've been trying to advocate the opposite. To take the time to grieve in the beginning because it IS just the beginning.

 

And I don't expect people to remember my posts but that has been consistently what I have posted for YEARS on this board: that grief is a process. It hurts. It lasts a long time. It ebbs and flows. Good days and bad days.

[*Lulu*]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying don't take time after a death.

 

I'm saying that behaving as if the pain in your life stopped time is unhealthy.

 

Don't allow your homeschooling, your life, to become some Dickens-esque portrayal.

 

Miss. Havisham is not a role model.

[unsinkable]

I agree with this (and I know we have disagreed before, Sadie, on this topic).

 

I think, for me, when I talk about increased involvement and accountability within the homeschooling community that means speaking out. It means speaking truth. It means challenging commonly trotted out platitudes about homeschooling's effectiveness. It means considering there might be some value in the expectation that most kids can read by 8, and do the four basic math functions by then as well. It means not saying "the baby is the lesson" or "grandma dying is the lesson". Dying grandmas and having babies happen throughout the lifespan of a homeschooling family. Do school anyway.

 

It means speaking the truth that my experience with homeschoolers reveals gaps in math, writing, and upper level science.

 

It means challenging the assumption that homeschooling is best, better, or ideal.

 

 

I love this! It could be an inspirational poster:

 

Mom is pregnant. Do school anyway.

A baby was born. Do school anyway.

A toddler is getting into everything. Do school anyway.

Relatives get sick. Do school anyway.

Grandmas die. Do school anyway.

You're preparing kids for heaven, not Harvard. Do school anyway.

Your state has no homeschool oversight. Do school anyway.

Education is important, so do school anyway.

 

Then maybe there could be a picture of mom at the kitchen table surrounded by kids or on the couch reading a book aloud or clinging to a tree branch or something.

 

 

I think most people who are interested in homeschooling understand tenses.

 

Grandma's dying is not the same as Grandma's dead.

 

a couple tenses have been used.

[FaithManor]

I like "gird the yoga pants". Love it!

 

(As I sit here in yoga pants and a big sweatshirt, LOL!)

[Katy]

 

IMO, she's in over her head, but if she absolutely will NOT send them to ps (there are no private schools in their area nor could they afford it), I'm hoping to steer her toward some kind of online option that will require very little from her.

 

 

Hey!  I think the multiquote is working again!  YAY!!!!!

 

I just wanted to throw in that something that's not parent heavy, like Robinson Curriculum style, might be ideal for her.   Quick phonics overview, quick math overview then flashcards to get down the facts, a page of writing.  In early grades it doesn't take long at all, and it doesn't take long to catch up because you learn the phonics and the math facts.  And the old-fashioned books tend to use more complex language so even though it can feel easy it can get a kid to above grade level quickly.  And some time on khan academy can help catch up on math too.  I know Robinson himself, and his literature selections, can be very controversial, but there's no reason she couldn't use his methods and choose different books.