Second Ebola Case in Dallas

[snowbeltmom]

He took a subway ride an then an Uber ride to go to and from Brooklyn for the sole purpose of going bowling at a trendy bowling alley.

 

God bless him for his service in Africa, I hope me recovers, but this doctor is a jackass.

:iagree:

He was supposed to be in self-quarantine.  Instead, he takes a cab and goes bowling when he is more tired than usual and not feeling well.  The bowling alley is now shut down.

[Trish]

Bowling alleys! Cruises! Bridal Shops! Soup Restaurants! Planes! Subways! Taxis!

 

Maybe people with ebola exposure need to be given a specific list of instructions on how to keep a low profile while waiting out the 21 days.

 

 

[momto10blessings]

Bowling alleys! Cruises! Bridal Shops! Soup Restaurants! Planes! Subways! Taxis!

 

Maybe people with ebola exposure need to be given a specific list of instructions on how to keep a low profile while waiting out the 21 days.

It should look something like this:

 

Do not leave your house. Period.

[Just Kate]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/virus-free-ebola-infected-nurse-nina-pham-go-home-n233171

 

It looks like Nina Pham has been cured of Ebola and is going home! Wonderful news!!!

[Slartibartfast]

He took a subway ride an then an Uber ride to go to and from Brooklyn for the sole purpose of going bowling at a trendy bowling alley.

 

God bless him for his service in Africa, I hope me recovers, but this doctor is a jackass.

 

 

Agreed. What is wrong with some people? Bowling? Seriously?

[unsinkable]

It should look something like this:

 

Do not leave your house. Period.

That's so confusing, though.

 

/end sarcasm

[KingM]

If this disease ever escapes into the general American population it will no doubt be related to some individual's selfish behavior.

[SamanthaCarter]

I know my opinion won't be popular and I do understand people's concern but I honestly don't think that is a reasonable expectation. Based on what we know people are not contagious until they show symptoms (and based on the experience in Dallas ebola really doesn't seem to be very contagious until the patient is VERY sick) so going out and about while free of symptoms really doesn't endanger anyone. I do think it is too much to expect people to basically put their life on hold for three weeks if there is practically no chance of infecting anyone (personally I believe the chance in such a case really is zero).

 

Honestly, if we all lived our lives in a way to completely and absolutely ensure that we don't endanger anyone we wouldn't get much done. I am not the best driver - does that mean I should never drive anywhere because there is a chance I will cause an accident (actually, even for excellent drivers that risk exists)? If you have taken your kids to school and later it turns out that a child at that school has gotten chicken pox - would you (assuming you are not immune to chicken pox) then quarantine yourself?

 

I do believe in taking precautions and doing our best to ensure we do not expose others to unnecessary risk but I think for ebola taking your temperature regularly and contacting a hospital at the FIRST sign of a temperature (or other signs of sickness) is sufficient. At this point I am starting to become concerned about the way people who are unlucky enough to get ebola (mostly because they went out there and helped others) are being treatedk/talked about. There seems to be quite a bit of blame assigned (maybe not for getting sick but for living a normal life which is highly unlikely to endanger anyone). In my opinion this is not a positive development.

 

I agree completely! I fear what will happen if we start placing unnecessary expectations on medical personnel who are volunteering their time and potentially their lives. Will fewer people go on short-term assignments if they face a 21day quarantine requirement on re-entry? That could potentially make an assignment last much longer and could discourage taking it on in the first place. 

[Slartibartfast]

If this disease ever escapes into the general American population it will no doubt be related to some individual's selfish behavior.

 

 

If i notice I have Ebola I am definitely going by Whole Foods and Costco for some soup, gigantic supplies of toilet paper and tissues, and some herbal tea. I might then need to go to Pottery Barn for some very soft sheets to ooze on.

[Seasider]

I really really really want to not catch Ebola, but seriously? If someone told me to stay home and read novels and eat takeout for three weeks, I would not argue about complying!

 

/jk of course. kinda.

[KingM]

The thing that's bewildering is that this doctor was selfless enough to risk his life going to Africa to help dying Ebola patients, but so selfish that upon getting home he wandered up and down NYC, taking the subway, even bowling. The bowling alley is shut down for decontamination, and you know that hundreds of people are fearfully avoiding the subway right now. Worse, are all the people who will be going to the ER when they feel queasy over the next few weeks, worried they might have Ebola, not to mention all the people who are really suffering in the ER because they need urgent care for some injury or illness, but have to queue behind all the false alarms.

 

Not one person needs to get Ebola from this doctor, and people will still suffer as a result.

[unsinkable]

I really really really want to not catch Ebola, but seriously? If someone told me to stay home and read novels and eat takeout for three weeks, I would not argue about complying!

 

/jk of course. kinda.

If your doorbell rings, and there is takeout on your stoop, it's from me. :-)

[KingM]

The NYC police might need a teeensy bit more training before handling future Ebola cases. Call it a hunch, but my guess is that dumping potentially contaminated gloves, masks, etc. into the street-side trash can is not the final step in decontaminating an area.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2805930/Should-Officers-marking-Ebola-patient-s-NYC-apartment-toss-gloves-masks-caution-tape-PUBLIC-trash-city-sidewalk-leave.html

[idnib]

Took DS to the doctor this morning. He has a fever and a particular pain so they told me to come in when I called the office. When we arrived a woman stopped us at the door and asked if he had a fever. When I said yes, they gave him a mask and asked about any travel outside of the county and whether anyone in our household had come into contact with someone from West Africa or any of the known people who have contracted ebola. They only let us in after I said no.

 

So some people are being cautious, anyway.

[VeritasMama]

I agree completely! I fear what will happen if we start placing unnecessary expectations on medical personnel who are volunteering their time and potentially their lives. Will fewer people go on short-term assignments if they face a 21day quarantine requirement on re-entry? That could potentially make an assignment last much longer and could discourage taking it on in the first place.

None of this sounds worse than exposing people to Ebola. And a doctor should be willing to give up bowling for 21 days. Just saying.

 

My son was a preemie born during RSV season, I know a thing or two about self quarantining. It is a small sacrifice compared to exposing someone to life threatening illness.

 

Health care workers of all people should understand this.

 

Quarantines used to be pretty common place before air travel. I don't understand why these people can't just do it.

[Slartibartfast]

I agree completely! I fear what will happen if we start placing unnecessary expectations on medical personnel who are volunteering their time and potentially their lives. Will fewer people go on short-term assignments if they face a 21day quarantine requirement on re-entry? That could potentially make an assignment last much longer and could discourage taking it on in the first place. 

 

 

They are going to need to do something. He started having symptoms on Thursday, he got back on the 17th. I don't think at least a week of quarantine is too much to ask.

 

A week of not riding the NY subway would be nice at least.

[catz]

I am actually less worried about this since no one else has contracted Ebola in Dallas.  It's when patients are producing copious amounts of bodily fluids is when people are catching it. I spent hours reading stories out of Africa, and that is consistent with everything I've read there too.  People know exactly where they were exposed.  Yes, this doctor could have been more responsible.  But he's also been watching ebola first hand.  If he didn't have a fever and wasn't vomiting, having uncontrollable diarrhea, or bleeding, I'm sure as a medical professional, he felt he wasn't contagious. 

[Valley Girl]

I am actually less worried about this since no one else has contracted Ebola in Dallas.  It's when patients are producing copious amounts of bodily fluids is when people are catching it. I spent hours reading stories out of Africa, and that is consistent with everything I've read there too.  People know exactly where they were exposed.  Yes, this doctor could have been more responsible.  But he's also been watching ebola first hand.  If he didn't have a fever and wasn't vomiting, having uncontrollable diarrhea, or bleeding, I'm sure as a medical professional, he felt he wasn't contagious. 

 

But the fact that he felt he wasn't contagious shouldn't be the determining factor. If going out and about to public venues and taking public transportation means that potentially hundreds of other people are going to be notified about exposure and companies are going to take drastic and costly steps to decontaminate areas, quarantine/isolation/what have you should mean you actually have to stay home.

[Pawz4me]

But the fact that he felt he wasn't contagious shouldn't be the determining factor. If going out and about to public venues and taking public transportation means that potentially hundreds of other people are going to be notified about exposure and companies are going to take drastic and costly steps to decontaminate areas, quarantine/isolation/what have you should mean you actually have to stay home.

 

But from what we know about Ebola that type of (over) reaction is unwarranted and unnecessary.

[Jean in Newcastle]

But from what we know about Ebola that type of (over) reaction is unwarranted and unnecessary.

It's totally motivated by fear, in my opinion.  But people are not going to go to a bridal shop that was patronized by someone with ebola even if they were asymptomatic at the time.  So the shop owners etc. are over a barrel on this stuff.  

[Pawz4me]

It's totally motivated by fear, in my opinion.  But people are not going to go to a bridal shop that was patronized by someone with ebola even if they were asymptomatic at the time.  So the shop owners etc. are over a barrel on this stuff.  

 

Fear and ignorance.

[Ausmumof3]

If he didn't have a fever on the subway, he wasn't contagious according to current understanding. Though I thought after the second Dallas nurse they specified at risk people shouldn't be on public transport.

 

Great news about Nina Pham. I think the positive thing is that so many of the us cases are recovering.

[Trish]

I am actually less worried about this since no one else has contracted Ebola in Dallas.  It's when patients are producing copious amounts of bodily fluids is when people are catching it. I spent hours reading stories out of Africa, and that is consistent with everything I've read there too.  People know exactly where they were exposed.  Yes, this doctor could have been more responsible.  But he's also been watching ebola first hand.  If he didn't have a fever and wasn't vomiting, having uncontrollable diarrhea, or bleeding, I'm sure as a medical professional, he felt he wasn't contagious. 

 

I'm not feeling 100 percent convinced of this until someone does a TV interview with the girlfriend, Louise Troh.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

An Australian nurse who came back from West Africa put herself into home quarantine for 3 weeks. Luckily, she didn't contract Ebola. I think voluntary home quarantine should be encouraged and facilitated - not because I think the MSF doctor put people at risk, but because it calms the situation down.

I do agree with this but the voluntary part of this really does put the ball in their court.  

[Lisbeth]

A small spark of sanity, imo. NY and NJ to set up stricter quarantine rules for their states: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/10/24/new-york-new-jersey-set-up-mandatory-quarantine-requirement-amid-ebola-threat/

[Amira]

I do agree with this but the voluntary part of this really does put the ball in their court.

And the facilitated part is very important too. It seems that too many people have been forced into quarantine without adequate support or their instructions are so vague that the quarantine is pointless (if it wasn't already pointless in the first place since people aren't contagious if they're not obviously symptomatic). I don't think that most people are ready for a 21-day quarantine, nor is it reasonable to expect them to be. I get that quarantines can make people feel better, but we have to be ready to do more to support the people being quarantined if we're going to go that route.

[catz]

And the facilitated part is very important too. It seems that too many people have been forced into quarantine without adequate support or their instructions are so vague that the quarantine is pointless (if it wasn't already pointless in the first place since people aren't contagious if they're not obviously symptomatic). I don't think that most people are ready for a 21-day quarantine, nor is it reasonable to expect them to be. I get that quarantines can make people feel better, but we have to be ready to do more to support the people being quarantined if we're going to go that route.

 

:iagree: It's easy to say just quarantine yourself alone for 21 days.  But not every one has the financial, physical, and emotional means or support to just make that happen easily with no planning or lead time.  I do think the kits they are giving out at the airport are a great idea to make those coming back really aware of tracking their temp and symptoms. 

[Pen]

Respectfully, Pen, I think maybe you do need to drop it.

 

I'm sorry I offended you.  I assure you I meant no disrespect to you or to anyone.  Perhaps this is a good example of the failings of internet communication.  I was simply stating my experience -- That federal law is hard to interpret by laypeople.  And I stand by that.

 

As far as why I think (thought) this was a state/local issue -- Because my understanding was that we were discussing the original incident in Dallas.  You know, the one that caused all the problem?  'Cause it seems to me that's where everyone thinks the CDC should have stepped in.

 

In a way I'm glad you brought this up again.  I wasn't going to mention it, but I heard Mr. Gostin being interviewed on NPR this afternoon.  I don't know what the name of the program was, but it was on around 4:00 or 4:30. The interviewer introduced Gostin as the CDC's legal adviser.  And he reiterated quite clearly that the CDC lacks the authority to intervene in state/local matters other than in an advisory capacity.  If they said when the interview took place I missed it, so I'm not sure if it was before Ms. Vinson's trip to Ohio or not.

 

When I posted the article he was quoted in, I assumed Gostin was just a law professor who had some expertise in public health.  Now that I know he's actively involved in advising the CDC . . . yeah, I'm going to continue to assume that his interpretation of the law is correct.  So you see, it's not just a matter of it not being clear to me.  It's a matter of (in your opinion) it not being clear to the CDC's own legal adviser.  Perhaps you should take it up with him?

 

 

 

 

Well, respectfully back again, so far I have not found anything that supports your idea of cases needed in two states  for the CDC to get involved in Ebola. Though surely at this point with the doctor in NYC, the 2 state burden would be met if it existed.

 

I do not disagree that the CDC works by setting protocols, and in an advisory capacity, rather than doing direct patient care. I have never disagreed with that. I have never been under the impression that the CDC does direct patient care. This would be the case regardless of the number of states with Ebola cases. It has to do with what the CDC does and does not do. It is like what I wrote in a reply to Mrs. Mungo, analogizing to hotels charged with discrimination. The Federal Justice Dept. can get involved even if the hotels were only in one state. But the Justice Dept would not take over running the hotel because that is not what it does.

 

I don't have anything to take up with Gostin and do not disagree with anything I have read that is his interpretation of law--I just seem to disagree with your understanding of what he is saying.  Here is what appears to be the transcript from the Oct. 20 interview on NPR:

 

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2014-10-20/latest-national-and-international-efforts-address-ebola-crisis/transcript

 

 

 

 

 

------------------

I think maybe since what I write upsets you it would be good to use the "ignore" feature so that my posts do not show up for you.  

 

I am sorry to upset you, but despite my interest in this and having dutifully searched out the interview, I cannot find support for your view that the CDC had no business in the Texas situation here, just as in truth I could not find it in the Osterholm materials I read.  We seem to read things differently. I don't even see any reference to Gostin as a CDC advisor, but maybe I missed that.

[kitten18]

I'm not feeling 100 percent convinced of this until someone does a TV interview with the girlfriend, Louise Troh.

 

??? What are you implying? 

[Mrs Mungo]

And the facilitated part is very important too. It seems that too many people have been forced into quarantine without adequate support or their instructions are so vague that the quarantine is pointless (if it wasn't already pointless in the first place since people aren't contagious if they're not obviously symptomatic). I don't think that most people are ready for a 21-day quarantine, nor is it reasonable to expect them to be. I get that quarantines can make people feel better, but we have to be ready to do more to support the people being quarantined if we're going to go that route.

So I happen to know several people who were on the cruise with the lab supervisor. One of them was told not to come into work on Monday, one was told not to come into work until Wednesday, and one (who works in health care) was told not to come into work for a week. Given the fact that none of those would really be adequate given the 3 week possible incubation period, I don't really get the point of that. The general public seems pretty misled about how/when it is transmitted, despite lots of info being available.

[Mrs Mungo]

Continuing--

 

So, I was trying to explain that I am glad there was some restraint in terms of not having a "Quarantine" turn into something as drastic as that might be.

 

At the same time, I am concerned that even in the USA, as in Liberia back some months ago, there may be too little being done to be fully ready and able to address the situation, and I do think the CDC should have done more earlier.  (As also, I think the world should have been doing something more and earlier to help in West Africa, and still should be doing far, far, far more now.)

I agree that we should have done more earlier at the source and should be doing more now. But, that has nothing to do with my post whatsoever.

 

 

 

 

As to the Federal Government with regard to stepping in and taking over, I think there are some ideas being confused and conflated, mixed together, that are part of the misunderstanding about the legal situation, and which I will come to in a moment.

 <snip for brevity>

 

So, if what you mean by "take over" would be that they would start taking direct care of the patients, and do I think they should have done that, taken over the care of Duncan?

<snip for brevity>

The CDC certainly should have been prepared (far better prepared) helping the frontline primary care hospitals to get ready, prepared to get them what would be needed to safely care for Ebola patients, since mathematically speaking, with 150 travelers from the affected countries arriving daily in USA, and with a 21 day period for most cases to show up, it was really just a matter of time before it came. And the preparation for that is very much within the CDC's mandate.

 

No, I don't think you are correctly interpreting what I said or meant at all. In no way did I state or imply that the CDC would/should be involved with patient care. And I'm not convinced that the CDC would/could have been prepared until someone had experience at a US hospital to learn from. A US hospital is not a field hospital in a third world country with decades of Ebola experience. There will be different concerns and needs.

 

 

As to the transmission rate, I do not consider it small. If 2 cases develop out every one case on average, without the top level hospitals like Emory being in charge, it has the potential to become a rapidly exponential problem here like it did in Liberia. It may sound small when it is a very few cases, but it can easily become way out of control. 1 becomes 2, 2 becomes 4, 4 becomes 8, and so on...which at the start sounds low, but it you do the math, you'll see that it gets huge very fast.

I think you completely missed my point. My point was not just that the transmission rate was small. My point was that the transmission rate was small in spite of the fact that this was the FIRST non-purposely-and-carefully-transfered case. It was at a hospital not prepared for the eventuality. The transmission rate was still small. We can already see that the CDC has adjusted their recommendations based upon that experience. The next hospital will be better prepared. The CDC will be better prepared next time.

[Pen]

I agree that we should have done more earlier at the source and should be doing more now. But, that has nothing to do with my post whatsoever.

 

 

 

 

 

No, I don't think you are correctly interpreting what I said or meant at all. In no way did I state or imply that the CDC would/should be involved with patient care. And I'm not convinced that the CDC would/could have been prepared until someone had experience at a US hospital to learn from. A US hospital is not a field hospital in a third world country with decades of Ebola experience. There will be different concerns and needs.

 

 

I think you completely missed my point. My point was not just that the transmission rate was small. My point was that the transmission rate was small in spite of the fact that this was the FIRST non-purposely-and-carefully-transfered case. It was at a hospital not prepared for the eventuality. The transmission rate was still small. We can already see that the CDC has adjusted their recommendations based upon that experience. The next hospital will be better prepared. The CDC will be better prepared next time.

 

 

Then, so far as I am now understanding the above, I have no disagreements with you... except that I am not sure about the next hospital, or the CDC as to "next time."  "Next time" having apparently already arrived. I am hopeful that Bellevue will manage to do as well as Emory etc. have done, but do not know for sure. Some nurses there have been interviewed and said they do not feel that they/the hospital is prepared.  Even that sense of worry amongst nurses is an issue IMO. I do not have the sense that there are nurses who were trained for the special units at Nebraska speaking out thus, for example. 

 

Well, even in this, I guess I do agree with what you actually wrote. They will be "better" prepared. I just do not know if the "better" is good enough yet, or if it is still playing catch-up, and not yet at a sufficient level. I hope that Spenser's situation will not lead to any more cases. But I strongly doubt if the hospitals near me are at a Bellevue level of being able to handle an Ebola case, let alone at an Emory, Nebraska etc. level. Honestly, I don't even know if they are at the level of the hospital in Dallas to be able to cope with it.

 

There do appear to be some improvements in awareness at the intake level of emergency rooms and so on.  If nothing else the huge media attention would no doubt help alert nurses, doctors, etc. and thus raise awareness. 

[Pen]

Here is a statement of the actual "interstate" requirement-- it is not for a communicable disease to have been diagnosed in 2 different states, but rather for someone to be in a communicable or pre-communicable stage and who either may be moving (traveling) or about to move to another state, or to be a probable source of infection for someone else who will be moving to another state.  In this era of travel from place to place rapidly, by plane or otherwise, that would reach someone who is ill and will be cared for by nurses who have travel plans from Texas to Ohio, for example.

 

(The (B)s apparently do not come out right.)

 

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title42/html/USCODE-2011-title42-chap6A-subchapII-partG-sec264.htm

 

(1) Regulations prescribed under this section may provide for the apprehension and examination of any individual reasonably believed to be infected with a communicable disease in a qualifying stage and (A) to be moving or about to move from a State to another State; or ( B) to be a probable source of infection to individuals who, while infected with such disease in a qualifying stage, will be moving from a State to another State. Such regulations may provide that if upon examination any such individual is found to be infected, he may be detained for such time and in such manner as may be reasonably necessary. For purposes of this subsection, the term “State†includes, in addition to the several States, only the District of Columbia.

(2) For purposes of this subsection, the term “qualifying stageâ€, with respect to a communicable disease, means that such disease—

(A) is in a communicable stage; or

( B) is in a precommunicable stage, if the disease would be likely to cause a public health emergency if transmitted to other individuals.

 

 

[VeritasMama]

Isn't the 21 day quarantine mandatory now in NY ?

 

I hope all the returning health care workers gets lots of support during their quarantine.

It is mandatory in NJ now as well. Here is an account of how it is being handled by a quarantined nurse in NJ. Her complaints about the TSA are pretty common experiences for many frequent travelers. My husband travels for business quite often, and he has been treated with this level of incompetence just trying to get out of Atlanta.

 

http://www.dallasnews.com/ebola/headlines/20141025-uta-grad-isolated-at-new-jersey-hospital-as-part-of-ebola-quarantine.ece

[Butter]

We had to take my 8 year old to the ER in the middle of the night night before last (croup, unable to breathe properly, needed the heavy duty medicine breathing treatments and steroids).  We live in San Antonio TX.  On the door of the ER it had a list of places and said if you had been to those places, in contact with anyone who went to any of those places recently, or had handled certain specimens from those places and have a fever to not go into the ER waiting room but instead to notify the person at the desk (which is behind glass) immediately.  The same sign was also in the waiting room and in the triage area.  My son had a fever of course and they asked us directly if we had traveled out of the country recently (no).  They also asked if he had diarrhea or vomiting or even just nausea (no).  Clearly they are being proactive to isolate anyone who even might have Ebola.  At least some places have learned from the mistakes of others.

[VeritasMama]

The mandatory quarantine orders in NJ and NY are getting pushback from the White House:

 

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/27/nyregion/ebola-quarantine.html?_r=0&referrer=

[Joker]

The mandatory quarantine orders in NJ and NY are getting pushback from the White House:

 

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/27/nyregion/ebola-quarantine.html?_r=0&referrer=

 

I'm happy to see this. What's going on with the nurse in NJ is ridiculous.

[VeritasMama]

I'm happy to see this. What's going on with the nurse in NJ is ridiculous.

I just read that IL and CT also have mandatory quarantines,

 

"On Saturday, in a sign of growing concern about the virus, Gov. Pat Quinn of Illinois, the home of O’Hare International Airport in Chicago, began a quarantine program similar to the one in place in New York and New Jersey. Connecticut, which enacted a similar policy on Oct. 7, has quarantined nine people who have so far showed no symptoms."

 

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/nyregion/nurse-in-newark-tests-negative-for-ebola.html?_r=1

[Matryoshka]

I'm happy to see this. What's going on with the nurse in NJ is ridiculous.

 

What's going on with the nurse is ridiculous.  However, I still support a quarantine.  It should just be a comfortable hotel or an actual requirement to stay home and get take out, or maybe they could use a designated apartment building but not in a hospital room under a tent.  That is as crazy in the other direction as riding around on the subway and going bowling after you start to already feel crappy (I know the NY didn't get a fever till Thurs morning, but said he started to feel sick on Tues night, and still did all that stuff on Weds.  That was stupid).  There is no need for someone coming back to be totally isolated to an extent even further than Mr. Duncan appears to have been when he was in the final stages of the disease. :confused1:  

 

 

[Laurie4b]

I'm happy to see this. What's going on with the nurse in NJ is ridiculous.

 

I agree. And what's with making her wear paper gowns? Why can't she wear her clothes? She's not  symptomatic. It doesn't seem like a quarantine is necessary at all, but if they're going to do one, why not in her home, for crying out loud?

 

 

[melmichigan]

So I happen to know several people who were on the cruise with the lab supervisor. One of them was told not to come into work on Monday, one was told not to come into work until Wednesday, and one (who works in health care) was told not to come into work for a week. Given the fact that none of those would really be adequate given the 3 week possible incubation period, I don't really get the point of that. The general public seems pretty misled about how/when it is transmitted, despite lots of info being available.

Especially the bolded.  The lab supervisor tested negative after 21 days so who exactly are these people supposed to have gotten ebola from?

[Laurie4b]

Especially the bolded.  The lab supervisor tested negative after 21 days so who exactly are these people supposed to have gotten ebola from?

 

Too logical, apparently.

[BigMamaBird]

I am (was?) firmly in the camp of believing people have other's best interest at heart and will wisely do the right thing when called upon to help their fellow man.  And I certainly don't want to go down the path of the government locking people up.  But at the same time, we've now had folks who've come into direct contact with Ebola patients get on planes, going to very public places like bowling alleys, bridal salons and restaurants, etc.  I'd like to believe they'd be responsible and self isolate in a comfortable, supportive place, but that doesn't seem to be what's happening.

 

I have a friend who will soon be returning from her second stint in Liberia as a medical aid worker.  Back in July when she first got back, she just stayed at her home for 21 days and self monitored.  Now, she was expecting to do the same, but because of all the bruhaha caused by these other workers gallavanting around, she's going to have to spend those 21 days in some other location being government monitored.  It's a shame that a few people had to go and ruin it for all the other folks who just want to help the people of Africa.  

 

I don't know what the solution is.  If I were Overlord of Earth, I guess I'd buy out some nice hotel where the returning workers could stay in comfort for their 21 days.  Room service, free HBO, big fluffy beds.  But due to my lack of Death Ray, I guess I'll never get to try.  

[VeritasMama]

U.S. soldiers who are returning from Liberia are first being quarantined in Italy.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-outbreak-u-s-soldiers-returning-from-liberia-placed-in-isolation-in-italy/

 

I just would like some consistency. It seems no one cares about the people quarantined in CT, but NJ is being called out for one nurse. I didn't like the way the quarantine in NJ was handled either, but I still think that in certain cases quarantines are necessary. Is it the concept of mandatory quarantines in general that people don't like, or do people support them if they are handled in a humane way?

[Pam in CT]

U.S. soldiers who are returning from Liberia are first being quarantined in Italy.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-outbreak-u-s-soldiers-returning-from-liberia-placed-in-isolation-in-italy/

 

I just would like some consistency. It seems no one cares about the people quarantined in CT, but NJ is being called out for one nurse. I didn't like the way the quarantine in NJ was handled either, but I still think that in certain cases quarantines are necessary. Is it the concept of mandatory quarantines in general that people don't like, or do people support them if they are handled in a humane way?

 

Are there any?  I know the state has established quarantine procedures if (perhaps we should say, when) cases do occur, and designated hospitals have instituted training for the protocols, but according to the state Department of Public Health as of today:

 

"Right now there are no cases of Ebola in Connecticut. We are taking safety measures to prevent the spread of this virus should someone in Connecticut become sick with Ebola."

[Amira]

I am a supporter of quarantining people who are an actual (not perceived) danger to the public. Only people who have Ebola-like symptoms should be quarantined, and then they should be given a blood test to see if they actually have Ebola. I think that adding another 21 days to the time members of the military have spent away from their families and homes is unreasonable when they are not sick.  Why can't we accept that Ebola isn't contagious if people don't have symptoms and that those symptoms are easy to monitor for, especially when a strict quarantine places an undue burden on healthy people who aren't a danger to anyone?

 

I have a problem with any healthy person who has been quarantined during this fiasco, no matter what state they're in, just like I have a problem with the fact that Duncan was sent home from the hospital the first time he went and that the doctor in NY didn't stay home when he started to feel sick.  I definitely agree that there needs to be consistency, but since there is absolutely no evidence that asymptomatic people are contagious (and that they aren't even contagious in the very early stages of being symptomatic), it seems that there is plenty of middle ground between the two extremes. A consistent policy would make it much easier to avoid all these mistakes.

[Pawz4me]

U.S. soldiers who are returning from Liberia are first being quarantined in Italy.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-outbreak-u-s-soldiers-returning-from-liberia-placed-in-isolation-in-italy/

 

I just would like some consistency. It seems no one cares about the people quarantined in CT, but NJ is being called out for one nurse. I didn't like the way the quarantine in NJ was handled either, but I still think that in certain cases quarantines are necessary. Is it the concept of mandatory quarantiInes in general that people don't like, or do people support them if they are handled in a humane way?

 

It's that they are totally unnecessary.  As doctor after doctor after doctor has said.

 

A person isn't contagious unless they start running a fever.  Even for the first day or three after developing a fever the person still isn't very contagious.  That's why none of Duncan's family have Ebola.  They were right there in the apartment with him, and some of them reportedly even slept in the same bed.  And yet not a single one of them developed Ebola.  It's why no one who was around Amber Vinson or Nina Pham have contracted Ebola.

 

The push for quarantining is for two purposes IMO -- We're a week away from a general election and it gives politicians a lot of opportunity for posturing.  And it calms the fears of people who are woefully ignorant of the science.

[Firefly]

Are there any?  I know the state has established quarantine procedures if (perhaps we should say, when) cases do occur, and designated hospitals have instituted training for the protocols, but according to the state Department of Public Health as of today:

 

"Right now there are no cases of Ebola in Connecticut. We are taking safety measures to prevent the spread of this virus should someone in Connecticut become sick with Ebola."

 

Yes, I just read about it yesterday on the WTNH website:  http://wtnh.com/2014/10/22/west-haven-family-quarantined-after-traveling-to-west-africa/

[Pam in CT]

Yes, I just read about it yesterday on the WTNH website:  http://wtnh.com/2014/10/22/west-haven-family-quarantined-after-traveling-to-west-africa/

 

Thanks!  I hadn't heard anything about it over in my little corner.  Glad to hear they're home, are having food etc. delivered, and have not had to endure a media circus.

[VeritasMama]

It's that they are totally unnecessary. As doctor after doctor after doctor has said.

 

A person isn't contagious unless they start running a fever. Even for the first day or three after developing a fever the person still isn't very contagious. That's why none of Duncan's family have Ebola. They were right there in the apartment with him, and some of them reportedly even slept in the same bed. And yet not a single one of them developed Ebola. It's why no one who was around Amber Vinson or Nina Pham have contracted Ebola.

 

The push for quarantining is for two purposes IMO -- We're a week away from a general election and it gives politicians a lot of opportunity for posturing. And it calms the fears of people who are woefully ignorant of the science.

It also seems like political posturing to me as well, but I was surprised the military have to go through it after NJ and NY recieved so much pushback. It seems the folks in CT are quarantined in their homes, so that would be a difference between that situation and the one in NJ.

 

It is tough. I don't want mandatory quarantines for everyone, but the doctor who was supposedly self quarantined but went bowling had started to feel lethargic a few days before the bowling. This is a lack of common sense, and it's coming from a doctor, it's reason to give anyone pause.