PSA: field trips - JAWM

[shinyhappypeople]

Please don't sign up for a field trip until you're sure you can go.  If you're not sure, RSVP as a "maybe."  ALSO, canceling at the last minute because you get a better offer is really, really crappy.  Some tours require a minimum number of people.

 

Because of multiple last minute cancellations, we are now ONE above the minimum.  (None of the cancellations were because of illness or other emergency.) I'm feeling very DONE with planning trips when people can't be bothered to take their commitments seriously.

 

 

 

[gingersmom]

Some things never change. Sorry this happened.

[Tess in the Burbs]

Last big field trip I planned I asked for money up front, no refunds.  If another family could replace you then you both figure it out.  I filled it up no problem and had a wait list.  I found being firm in the details mattered.  And I had the last minute cancellations....but none asked for money back b/c they knew I wouldn't.  

 

I had to cancel last minute on a trip I had signed up for just last week when I got very sick.  I had paid....and didn't expect my money back.  I figure it's less to crowd the situation.  

 

Sorry you had a bad time.  Just make the rules tighter....I found it works better and people don't cancel.  Paying $(even a few dollars) helps people show up. 

[LifeLovePassion]

I'm sorry, that stinks. The best tip I have heard for free field trips is to require a $10 check per family made out to the group (or yourself if you aren't part of a group) and give it back to them at the event. Otherwise checks get cashed and the only no shows are legit illness or emergency who get their checks back.

[regentrude]

I am sorry. people are inconsiderate.

You should ask for money up front. People will think twice about blowing off a field trip if they have paid - even just a few bucks.

[Moxie]

After being in a field trip group, I'm really convinced that a large number of people homeschool because they can't be bothered to get to school on time. It is so, so rude!!

[fairfarmhand]

I'm sorry, that stinks. The best tip I have heard for free field trips is to require a $10 check per family made out to the group (or yourself if you aren't part of a group) and give it back to them at the event. Otherwise checks get cashed and the only no shows are legit illness or emergency who get their checks back.

 

This is what our homeschooling group does.

 

Our leadership was continually embarrassed by the no-shows. Especially when other organizations put themselves out to arrange for a tour or something,

[5LittleMonkeys]

I'm the director of a co-op that supports 30+ families - 80 children.  My two field trip organizers and myself have very strict rules about field trips for the very reason you're experiencing.  I totally agree with you that it is inconsiderate and annoying. 

 

I agree with those up thread that said require $ up front and have tight rules.  We don't do ANY pay when you show up trips.  Even if we don't have to pay until we arrive we still require money to be paid ahead of time (a week in advance) and then the co-op makes one lump payment.  Fees are non-refundable regardless of why you back out.  If you can find someone to take your place....great.  If not then we add that money to the co-op fund used for end of semester parties for the dc.

 

As for those trips that require a minimum number - bump your personal number up by 5 - 10.  That way if you do have several families back out you're probably still going to be safe.  

 

We haven't had any issues with people not showing up to free events but I think that's because we are very explicit up front that backing out at the last minute is not an option unless you truly can't make it due to illness or emergency.  If you get a reputation for backing out repeatedly you aren't invited any longer.  If you are dealing with the same group of people over and over then tell them that you're starting a new policy...3 strikes and you loose the privilege of being invited. They'll either step up and stop being thoughtless or they'll find some other group to annoy. :P

 

Sorry you are dealing with those types of people, but it's great that you're willing to set stuff up for those who probably really do appreciate your time and effort. :)

 

[happypamama]

We charge a couple of dollars per family, even for free field trips, and this has cut down on flakiness. :)

[shinyhappypeople]

*rant ahead, be forewarned*

 

Homeschoolers are big giant flakes as a lot. I am appalled to hear from my friend, who coordinates our swim classes, that she regularly gets multiple families signing up multiple children, attending for a week or not at all, and then dropping until she is missing a third or so of her original attendees.

 

So then multiple wait listed families don't get spots. And we sometimes fall below minimum registration.

 

Another friend chimed into the same conversation that this isn't just swim class but endemic in homeschooling, as she has done so in multiple states and seen it in each.

 

I'm one of those who treats signing up as an ironclad commitment and I better have a darn good reason (emergency vehicle issues, death in family, violent and contagious illness) to miss it, so I have never been able to wrap my brain around people treating the time and schedules of others so cavalierly.

 

I really consider it a basic sign of respect and consideration of others to be true to my word when I sign on for an event. Additionally, it goes without saying every effort should be made to be properly prepared and as close to punctual as physically possible in attending. These are basic social responsibilities of organized activities, not some over the top ridiculous expectation!

 

Exactly! It's okay to RSVP no or maybe.  But, otherwise, let your yes be yes.  

 

And while we're at it, I wish parents wouldn't use a field trip as a carrot/stick - "If you don't do xyz then you can't go on the field trip."  No!  Don't people realize that others are counting on them being there?!  Don't inadvertently punish the group (not to mention the docents et al) for your child's poor choice.   :banghead:   

 

I've decided to limit my field trip invites to about a half dozen families that I personally know... until my soft heart melts and I give in.   :tongue_smilie:

[kirstenhill]

:-(  Almost every field trip situation I've been in required pre-payment, so if you don't show up it is your financial loss (unless you find someone to take your spot of course).   I've organized a handful of field trips as well, and I find that most places don't in actuality care how many people are physically present, as long as the minimum number is paid for (i.e. they would be happy to schedule one family if you are willing to pay the whole $xyz minimum yourself!). 

 

On the other hand, this week I was on the other end things with someone ORGANIZING a field trip sort of flaking out.  The organizer cancelled for somewhat compelling (but not exactly "emergency") personal reasons.  If anyone else attending would have cancelled under the same non-emergency reason they would have just been out the $$...but instead of asking if anyone else could take her role as the organizer/liaison and being fair and square about taking the financial hit herself, she just cancelled the whole thing.  We get our money back, but my kids had been looking forward to the particular class/tour for over a month.  :-(  My kids want to do it so badly that I will try and set up a class again and hope I can get enough people for a new date, I guess.

[mom2att]

Agreeing 100%.  Too many homeschoolers are flakes--sad but true!

 

Our group used to have a "three strikes" rule.  Now I just block people from being able to sign up for field trips after one no show, no call (unless they have a really valid excuse, like they were on their way to the emergency room or their kid threw up in the car on the way to the trip, etc.).  C'mon--everybody has a cell phone.  At least show the courtesy of CALLING if you aren't coming so we are not standing around waiting for you. 

 

As others have said, we have found that making people pay upfront helps--with us they have to pay when they sign up.  Also keeping the sign ups to within a couple of weeks of the actual trip cuts down on flakes.  We used to put trips on our calendar as soon as they were scheduled, but that meant people were signing up and sometimes the trip was filling up weeks, even months before the actual date.  So by the time the trip rolled around, so did the cancellations.  Now the trip is posted, but the sign ups don't start until closer to the trip.  That way people have a better idea of their schedule and/or aren't as likely to forget about it entirely.

 

We have a large group and I have planned multiple field trips--unfortunately we've learned the hard way. Our rules are laid out very explicitly because we've been burned in the past.  New people complain about them, especially when they find they can't sign up for a field trip after not showing up to an earlier one, but that's the way it goes.

 

[Sarah0000]

Not just homeschoolers, but SAHMs. I'm having the same problem with moms of tots groups not showing up to simple park days or play dates. I'm considering signing up for a paid organized activity just so my son can play with a regular group of kids.

[RoundAbout]

Yup. It seems worse among homeschoolers, but people just don't take commitments that seriously. I run a hiking group for kids and the amount of no shows are amazing - even after sending out reminder emails the night before to update RSVPs. I don't actually care who shows, and I have a 10 minute wait policy at the trail head, but it would be nice if people could just be considerate. For camping trips we require full payment in advance with no refunds and what do you know, everyone shows up!

[ByGrace3]

I had 13 cancel last minute for our field trip today. 13. Thankfully that still left us with 32, but it won't always be that way. It's like people don't understand commitment. Often prices are based on how many you have and while sometimes cancelations are a part of life (emergency, sickness etc), "we had a busy week" is not acceptable when you have made a commitment. We plan to got to 100% pre pay from now on after today. People tend to show up for things they have paid for.

 

Rant over.

 

Yes, I feel ya today! ;)

[Farrar]

We once went on a field trip that was supposed to have twenty other families. It had been organized by someone we didn't know. No one showed up except us and the other family we knew who had decided to do it with it. They took us on the tour anyway.

 

When the kids were younger, we used to take field trips with our list group pretty often and there was one family that was infamous for this behavior. If the kid wasn't in the mood for the trip that day, they'd just bail.

 

There are a few places around here that will not work with homeschool groups anymore because of this sort of behavior. It ticks me off to no end.

[Harriet Vane]

Ugh, that stinks. And I know that it's not always practical to collect money up front. At least, some of the groups I'm involved with are like that. Member-led groups with lots of families or groups that simply require me to drive a long distance to meet with. Many people are strangers so asking for money would be awkward and/or difficult to do (do you meet somewhere? Give them your PO Box?).

 

I wonder if people would take it seriously if you requested that any cancellations other than illness/emergency be done by X time.

 

Anyway, sorry this happened to you.

 

I don't see the awkwardness or difficulty.

 

Sending a check via snail-mail is always an option.

 

I don't see what is difficult about being strangers either. If a family wants to participate in an activity that requires money, they have to pay. It's just business.

[happypamama]

Our group accepts checks, and I have had strangers mail me checks before. Our group also now accepts Paypal, and that's really helpful for some of our members.

[Zebra]

I am a homeschooler and I love homeschoolers.   BUT, the flakiness of homeschoolers when it comes to field trips is hard to believe.   As a group, homeschoolers are so reliably unreliable!  It's why I have gotten completely burned out on ever planning stuff.  It's just not worth the hassle and aggravation anymore.  

 

I know that homeschoolers tend to go to the beat of their own drummer (myself included!) and they like the flexibility homeschooling provides.   Not to mention that there are real emergencies and situations that come up.  But I can't tell you how many times homeschoolers have completely flaked on me.   And how many homeschoolers are regular offenders.  The only thing you can possibly do is have people pay up front and have no refunds.   Which sounds mean, but it's the only way to make sure you aren't left footing the bill.  What is hard is when you are doing something that even if people pay you up front, you still want a certain number of people to show up to because it's no fun to do alone.

 

Anyway, I can't figure out why homeschoolers are so bad about this but they definitely are.

[shinyhappypeople]

I could see arranging payments through paypal but honestly, I just don't want to deal with other people's money.  

 

For the immediate future, I'm limiting invites to my circle of personal friends.  Of course, they can invite their friends, too, so I'm not being completely cliquish.  Honestly, I'm just completely tired.of.it. This isn't the first time people have flaked.  My new motto is: "If you can't be bothered to show up, then I can't be bothered to invite you."

 

 

[Alice]

I agree with all of the above. I was pleasantly surprised yesterday on I field trip I organized. I had no no-shows. One person canceled last minute but it was for sickness and she called to let me know and apologized. (No need, sickness is totally a reason to cancel.) And I had only one person who came without signing up. :) It was a free class so I was a little worried we'd have more no-shows or last minute "I just decided to bring a friend" kind of things. I prefer to just do field trips on our own now or with a group of close friends. This particular class had a mininum so I had to get a group together. 

 

 

[Reefgazer]

That stinks this happened to your group.  I think deposits would go a long way toward preventing that.

Please don't sign up for a field trip until you're sure you can go.  If you're not sure, RSVP as a "maybe."  ALSO, canceling at the last minute because you get a better offer is really, really crappy.  Some tours require a minimum number of people.

 

Because of multiple last minute cancellations, we are now ONE above the minimum.  (None of the cancellations were because of illness or other emergency.) I'm feeling very DONE with planning trips when people can't be bothered to take their commitments seriously.

 

[KrissiK]

I agree that homeschoolers can be the worst lb when it comes to committment. You've gotten a lot of good advice. Especially about pre-paying with no refunds, The only field trips I will organize are ones to places like the zoo. Where you just tell people to show up and they all pay when they go in. Then we meet at a certain time and have a picnic.

[kirstenhill]

I think accepting via paypal (or other online payment service) or checks via snail mail is a great way to go.  I have done that a number of times with a field trip organizer who is a stranger or friend-of-a-friend, and it's no big deal...especially online payments (since there is the easy possibility of a refund if the person somehow turned out to be dishonest). 

 

But I can also see not wanting to bother and just going places yourself without making it a big field trip.  It's a lot simpler to just go to a museum yourself whenever the timing works for your family and using an mp3 tour than it is to try and organize something for a couple dozen people.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

 

Collect payment in advance.

 

Assume there will be many no shows.

 

I think this is common among any group outside of school groups. Homeschool groups, scouts, clubs etc.

 

 

I dislike it too.

[In2why]

This is such a timely topic.  I am organizing a lock in at our Air and Science museum and I know people are prone to flaking out.  There is a minimum of 10 people required and half of the fee is due when booking the event.   I am putting together the trip now and I am definitely going to require the deposit of $25 per person with the remaining $25 due in a month.  I am worried that even if they know the deposit is nonrefundable they might still flake out before final payment.  I am going to have to put some more thought into this because the last thing I want to do is be on the line for $250.   I could piggyback my kids on someone else's group but I think it would be fun to do this with others in our science co-op.   Hmmmmm

[historically accurate]

This is such a timely topic.  I am organizing a lock in at our Air and Science museum and I know people are prone to flaking out.  There is a minimum of 10 people required and half of the fee is due when booking the event.   I am putting together the trip now and I am definitely going to require the deposit of $25 per person with the remaining $25 due in a month.  I am worried that even if they know the deposit is nonrefundable they might still flake out before final payment.  I am going to have to put some more thought into this because the last thing I want to do is be on the line for $250.   I could piggyback my kids on someone else's group but I think it would be fun to do this with others in our science co-op.   Hmmmmm

What I've done in this case is collect and pay the whole fee at first.  No second payments allowed -- the company doesn't mind  getting the money up front instead of in 2 payments, and no one can flake out on the second installment.  Even if they don't show, at least the company was paid for the time.

[Renai]

Please don't sign up for a field trip until you're sure you can go. If you're not sure, RSVP as a "maybe." ALSO, canceling at the last minute because you get a better offer is really, really crappy. Some tours require a minimum number of people.

 

Because of multiple last minute cancellations, we are now ONE above the minimum. (None of the cancellations were because of illness or other emergency.) I'm feeling very DONE with planning trips when people can't be bothered to take their commitments seriously.

Yep, I stopped planning them years ago. The last straw was when I received no cancellations and our family was the only one that showed up. It was free, but still. These people were taking time out of their schedule... I don't want to rehash it though.

 

This group seems a bit more responsible, so I'm actually considering setting up trips again. Hope I don't get burned. Again.

[shinyhappypeople]

Yep, I stopped planning them years ago. The last straw was when I received no cancellations and our family was the only one that showed up. It was free, but still. These people were taking time out of their schedule... I don't want to rehash it though.

 

This group seems a bit more responsible, so I'm actually considering setting up trips again. Hope I don't get burned. Again.

:grouphug:

 

A few years ago another  mom planned a field trip and my kids and I were the only family that showed up (besides the organizer, obviously).  There were 3 or 4 other families that had said they were coming.

 

I sort of regret making this a JAWM, because I'm having a hard time understanding why people do this kind of thing.  I'm interested in the explanation.  Barring illness, car trouble, etc.... why not just show up? 

[shinyhappypeople]

Oh, and here's a little fun fact:  on the day of field trips *that I organize* I don't always feel like going.  But I do.

 

[laughing lioness]

We just went on a terrific field trip at a cop shop. Dh of one of the moms in our group organized it. The large local co-op in town cannot get a field trip there because they have such a bad rap for not only NOT showing up, but also for being loud and rowdy. Too bad for them, because it was one of the best field trips we've gone on in a long time. 

[Curlymom]

Exactly! It's okay to RSVP no or maybe. But, otherwise, let your yes be yes.

 

And while we're at it, I wish parents wouldn't use a field trip as a carrot/stick - "If you don't do xyz then you can't go on the field trip." No! Don't people realize that others are counting on them being there?! Don't inadvertently punish the group (not to mention the docents et al) for your child's poor choice. :banghead:

 

I've decided to limit my field trip invites to about a half dozen families that I personally know... until my soft heart melts and I give in. :tongue_smilie:

I hate this for field trips and play dates ! We have a few acquaintances who will cancel play dates because their kids are 'bad'. Don't they realize they are punishing me and my kids as well? Because then I have to deal with the fall out of the cancelled plans, such as disappointed kids!

 

I have run into a few flaky homeschool parents but am fortunate that I've found a good, solid group of families that sticks to schedules! And definitely overestimate, because even in the best cases, there will always be families who cancel at the last minute. I do the same thing for birthday parties, there are always at least one or two kids who won't be able to come at the last minute.

[Ellie]

Please don't sign up for a field trip until you're sure you can go.  If you're not sure, RSVP as a "maybe."  ALSO, canceling at the last minute because you get a better offer is really, really crappy.  Some tours require a minimum number of people.

 

Because of multiple last minute cancellations, we are now ONE above the minimum.  (None of the cancellations were because of illness or other emergency.) I'm feeling very DONE with planning trips when people can't be bothered to take their commitments seriously.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

And see, your experience is why I charge for all field trips, even if they are free,  and no one counts as reserved until I have money in my hand, by a deadline (sometimes as much as two weeks in advance), and I don't give refunds unless the field trip is canceled. No phone calls, no "maybes." Show me the money. No mercy.

[PeacefulChaos]

:/ That stinks.

 

I've taken to planning once a month field trips that I invite our entire homeschool community to on FB.  Many of them will never participate, but whatevs.  It's a chance to get to do the stuff you have to have a minimum number for.  Luckily, most minimums around here are 10-15, and if we don't meet the minimum for some reason we just still have to pay a minimum price ($75-$105 usually, depending on the event).  

Everyone had to pay up front, before I made the reservation.  For our next field trip we're well over the minimum, so one family not able to make it can get their money back from me.  I made sure to tell everyone, though, that refunds cannot be promised.  If they say they are going and pay me, and then choose not to go, it's their problem, not mine.  It will depend on the numbers, but yeah - only a partial refund may happen in the future, or none at all.  That's what happens when you make a commitment and then choose to back out of it.

 

Sorry you're having that problem.  It drives me nuts when people are like that.

[PeacefulChaos]

Yup. It seems worse among homeschoolers, but people just don't take commitments that seriously. I run a hiking group for kids and the amount of no shows are amazing - even after sending out reminder emails the night before to update RSVPs. I don't actually care who shows, and I have a 10 minute wait policy at the trail head, but it would be nice if people could just be considerate. For camping trips we require full payment in advance with no refunds and what do you know, everyone shows up!

The bolded.  For real.

 

My kids have played soccer in the past with the community league and people just stop showing up at some point during the season.  Some people only come to like 1-2 games.  So then there are teams without enough players, or borrowing players from the opposing team, whatever - all because people won't show up.  It blows my mind.

The same thing seems to happen with everything here.  Baseball (in the spring) is the only thing I remember any kid doing that, by the end, hadn't shrunk in size by quite a few.  Swimming lessons (which we pay good $$ for!), sports, classes... all that.  Even after it's paid for. 

 

I don't get this mentality at all.  

[idnib]

The large local co-op in town cannot get a field trip there because they have such a bad rap for not only NOT showing up, but also for being loud and rowdy.

 

:iagree:

 

When we first started homeschooling we went on a couple of field trips with groups and while people did show up, I was so appalled by the other kids' behavior (and the way their parents didn't handle it) that I never went again. I was so embarrassed and I didn't want to be associated with this group in the eyes of the public or the staff at the locations.

[Artichoke]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

And see, your experience is why I charge for all field trips, even if they are free, and no one counts as reserved until I have money in my hand, by a deadline (sometimes as much as two weeks in advance), and I don't give refunds unless the field trip is canceled. No phone calls, no "maybes." Show me the money. No mercy.

Just curious how much do you charge for free field trips? I have no problem with folks who do that, after all you spend time coordinating things; but personally I'd be uncomfortable charging.

[Ellie]

Exactly! It's okay to RSVP no or maybe.  But, otherwise, let your yes be yes.  

 

See, "maybe" doesn't count for anything.

 

IMHO, "RSVP" means "Yes, I'm going. " "No, I'm not going." There should be nothing in the middle, when there's a middle option, there's room for no-shows.

Until you have people's money in your hand, you don't know for sure who's coming and who is not. And this is true with *all* people, not just homeschoolers, I'm sad to say. :-(

[*lifeoftheparty*]

I am a homeschooler and I love homeschoolers.   BUT, the flakiness of homeschoolers when it comes to field trips is hard to believe.   As a group, homeschoolers are so reliably unreliable!  It's why I have gotten completely burned out on ever planning stuff.  It's just not worth the hassle and aggravation anymore.  

 

I know that homeschoolers tend to go to the beat of their own drummer (myself included!) and they like the flexibility homeschooling provides.   Not to mention that there are real emergencies and situations that come up.  But I can't tell you how many times homeschoolers have completely flaked on me.   And how many homeschoolers are regular offenders.  The only thing you can possibly do is have people pay up front and have no refunds.   Which sounds mean, but it's the only way to make sure you aren't left footing the bill.  What is hard is when you are doing something that even if people pay you up front, you still want a certain number of people to show up to because it's no fun to do alone.

 

Anyway, I can't figure out why homeschoolers are so bad about this but they definitely are.

 

I schedule all the field trips for my group, we go on them about every 3 weeks- sometimes every 2, sometimes it's every 4. I schedule them through the summer, and have been doing so for a few years.

 

I agree with everything else. Set up firm rules, and stick to them. Get payment up front, no refunds.

 

To the bolded- I don't know why either, but I think a lot of them are just clueless. Everyone thinks that they are the only ones bailing out, and it's no big deal because it's only "x" people. Some people honestly think they are the only ones not showing up. Some people just have no idea that some of these trips have to be scheduled far in advance, and have minimums- they don't realize that many times volunteers are brought in depending on group size- so I make sure that everyone knows.

 

I start out every year with a little speech letting everyone know just how flaky homeschoolers can be, and what our reptation is. I let them know that there are places who won't even deal with homeschool groups anymore, because of the flakiness. I say, in person, in clear words, "please follow through on your commitments, it is extremely disrespectful to not do so" etc. I go over the fact that volunteers are being used most of the time, that other groups are turned away because places are booked- so if we cancel last minute, then no one gets to go, etc. I let them know that if they cancel, and we fall below minimum requirements, it will be *their fault* that everyone else who *did* show up will lose out on the trip, and be disappointed and upset.

 

I have to tell you, it has worked. I feel like a big meany, but, my group knows the drill and are happy to pay ahead. I still have a cancellation do to an emergency every now and then, everyone gets sick- but luckily, it usually happens during the low key trips with no fee and no minimums.

 

So, yeah, you really have to spell it out for people....

 

And honestly, I find it is worse in groups where the people don't know each other well, and *especially* when they barely know each other. People just don't seem to care about blowing off strangers.

 

In my current group though, we are a fairly tight community and we all know each other well, so there is a personal element to it- no one wants to disappoint their friends, you know?

[*lifeoftheparty*]

This is such a timely topic.  I am organizing a lock in at our Air and Science museum and I know people are prone to flaking out.  There is a minimum of 10 people required and half of the fee is due when booking the event.   I am putting together the trip now and I am definitely going to require the deposit of $25 per person with the remaining $25 due in a month.  I am worried that even if they know the deposit is nonrefundable they might still flake out before final payment.  I am going to have to put some more thought into this because the last thing I want to do is be on the line for $250.   I could piggyback my kids on someone else's group but I think it would be fun to do this with others in our science co-op.   Hmmmmm

 

We just did an overnight aboard a ship in the Baltimore Harbor, it was $50 per person. We had a good turnout, about 40 people- and not one cancellation. I was pretty surprised. Some things are just really cool, and worth the money- and most people won't flake out at $25 a person- I mean, most families have at least 2 people going (1 child, 1 parent) so that's $50 that they would just lose.

[MysteryJen]

I absolutely agree about the flakiness of homeschoolers. We had a hard time making friends in groups, because the same people would not show up two times in a row. But I learned something this weekend about how other people schedule their lives. So, right now, my life is pretty simple, only two sports going (not four like last fall), and everything is organized. By that I mean, practices on the calendar, meets and tournaments on the calendar, due dates, etc. We are planned out until the end of the season.

I needed to arrange a car pool for a meet in two weeks. It is a serious need (or I have to get a hotel room), I contacted a mom (also a homeschooler) to arrange driving last week. I got a vague, "I think we are going." And then, no response from a follow-up text. Dh finally asked her and she said, that carpooling was good, but she doesn't know what her schedule will be. She has no idea what activities and responsibilities she will have two weeks from now. 

??? Her kids are in organized activities. I know there is a schedule. 

They will lose up to $50 if they don't go to the meet. I will be out more than $100 if I have to arrange a hotel at the last minute. 

 

It is fine to be flaky until it starts affecting other people.

 

 

[SamanthaCarter]

I think the problem is pervasive over the *entire* society and I suspect it's a generational thing (children raised by baby-boomers and Xers). I've been working behind the scenes at our church for several years and it's just amazing to me to watch pastors and staff try to get commitments on ANYTHING. Back when I was planning my wedding, the stationary guy told me not to even bother with the RSVP cards because people would not send them back. I didn't listen and was out a lot of work and postage for all of those stamped envelopes that just vanished into people's homes. I think the flakey-ness is way more pervasive than just among homeschoolers or even parents. You all just have more opportunity to see it there. 

[SamanthaCarter]

I'll be the first to admit I'm flakey, by the way. I'm one of those who would give you a vague answer because I didn't know or have my calendar. I just never have learned to keep a calendar well (trying - it's not going well). Though when I do commit to something I view it as a firm commitment. Okay well, I did show up a day late to a women's function for which I was supposed to bring a dessert recently. Ugh. :banghead

 

I really, really appreciate email and text reminders. 'Cause I'm a well-meaning flake. 

[MysteryJen]

I'll be the first to admit I'm flakey, by the way. I'm one of those who would give you a vague answer because I didn't know or have my calendar. I just never have learned to keep a calendar well (trying - it's not going well). Though when I do commit to something I view it as a firm commitment. Okay well, I did show up a day late to a women's function for which I was supposed to bring a dessert recently. Ugh. :banghead

 

I really, really appreciate email and text reminders. 'Cause I'm a well-meaning flake. 

 I love email reminders, too.  :)

[Tanaqui]

I sort of regret making this a JAWM, because I'm having a hard time understanding why people do this kind of thing.  I'm interested in the explanation.  Barring illness, car trouble, etc.... why not just show up?

 

You ever give away a kitten or a puppy that you found somewhere? Everybody gives you the same advice - charge money. Even if it's just $5, make the person pay you something, because people value animals more if they had to pay money for them, and then they treat the pet better. Which is disgusting, but there it is.

 

I bet the same principle applies here. If it's free, people think of it as worthless, and so don't consider that it is rude or disrespectful to not show up.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if the persistent no-shows had never organized anything like this in their lives.

[Ellie]

Just curious how much do you charge for free field trips? I have no problem with folks who do that, after all you spend time coordinating things; but personally I'd be uncomfortable charging.

 

Let me explain a little more. :-)

 

If it's truly "free," as in "we're all gonna show up at the park and explore the creek," that's truly free. We didn't have to make arrangements with anyone, it doesn't matter who's there and who isn't. Free. (And we made sure that there were a couple of those kinds of activities planned in our support group year.)

 

Some "free" events, however, still involve the venue. For example, a friend told her friends at Moms' Night Out about a docent-guided tour at a near-by slough (marshy-wildlife kind of place). All the mothers thought it sounded great and said they would be there. My friend made arrangements with the visitors' center, which scheduled three docents because my friend was expecting about 40 people. On the day of the field trip, my friend and her one child showed up, one or two other mothers with their one or two children, and three docents, who were expecting, you know, 40 people.

 

*That* kind of "free" is what I charge for. If the place we're going to has to make any kind of arrangements based on the number of people I say I'm bringing, then I'm charging $1 per person. That measly $1 per person is enough to commit people (sad to say).

[Ellie]

I think the problem is pervasive over the *entire* society and I suspect it's a generational thing (children raised by baby-boomers and Xers). I've been working behind the scenes at our church for several years and it's just amazing to me to watch pastors and staff try to get commitments on ANYTHING. Back when I was planning my wedding, the stationary guy told me not to even bother with the RSVP cards because people would not send them back. I didn't listen and was out a lot of work and postage for all of those stamped envelopes that just vanished into people's homes. I think the flakey-ness is way more pervasive than just among homeschoolers or even parents. You all just have more opportunity to see it there. 

 

I *am* the baby-boomer generation, as were all my homeschooling friends, so I couldn't say that it is my children's generation (and *their* children! ACK! How did I get to be that old??!!) who are flaky.

[Ellie]

Does anyone ask why you are charging a dollar?

 

 

Sometimes. And if they do, I tell them why. :-)

[Tree Frog]

The group I was in charged $5 per free event. They held the cash or checks until the day and time of the event, when they would return the money to the people in attendance whose reservations it held. (They preferred checks because they were easily returned.) When there were no shows, the money was considered donated and put into the general fund.

 

 

[kirstenhill]

The group I was in charged $5 per free event. They held the cash or checks until the day and time of the event, when they would return the money to the people in attendance whose reservations it held. (They preferred checks because they were easily returned.) When there were no shows, the money was considered donated and put into the general fund.

 

That is a great idea!  I haven't been involved in very many free field trips (almost everything around here is a fee!), but if I ever am I might consider implementing or suggesting this.

 

I am surprised at the number of comments that groups were suddenly "out" the group rate or the ability to do something at all if not enough people showed up on the right day, as well as the idea that places are bringing in volunteers.  Almost every place around here that we have done a field trip really seriously doesn't care how many people come if they are paid for.  So even if 20 people flake out and five people come, as long as I have 25 prepaid, it is fine.  They just want your admission $$. I've never actually had that happen, but that is just the impression I have gotten.  They never "count" how many people show up that particular day.  And it seems like every place I can think of we've been except maybe one is paying the staff to be there (hence the $$ -- they are using it to pay the staff).  But maybe part of that is we are in a large metro area, and we have many, many museums and sites that all seem to have paid staff.  Or maybe these are very different kinds of field trips? (We mostly do zoos, nature centers, museums, historical sites, plays/concerts...stuff like that).

 

Or maybe I am just not seeing some of these issues because I really have not experienced a great deal of flakiness -- not nearly as much as some of you have.