Ebola patients being brought to US - what are your thoughts?

[StaceyinLA]

They are bringing the doctor and other infected American back to the US (Atlanta to be exact). Is this going to open a can of worms? What are your thoughts?

[Amira]

I am very glad that they are being sent to the US where they will get better care. I wish all Ebola patients were able get the same care these two Americans will get.

[brehon]

I'm happy they're being treated here. I think they'll have the best chance of recovering here rather than in Africa.

 

No, I don't think this will open a can of worms. I'm not sure which can you mean, though, so we may be talking about different things. If you're talking about Ebola spreading beyond the quarantine building of Emory (and do note that the quarantine area is in a separate building from the rest of the hospital), I recognize that it *could* happen, but isn't likely.

 

If I lived in Atlanta, I wouldn't be worried about catching Ebola.

[Ethel Mertz]

Emory is a top notch hospital and definitely up to the task of keeping strong protocols going while treating infectious disease. Luckily, Ebola is not an airborne disease, but rather is contracted via contact with bodily fluids. Also, the CDC is located near Emory, so the US folks will get excellent care. I too wish others with Ebola had access to this sort of care.

[regentrude]

I am glad they will receive care in a modern hospital. I am not worried about an outbreak here being caused by this; the virus is not airborne, and I trust that proper techniques for isolating the infected will be used to prevent a spread through bodily fluids - we have the technological means, and the people involved have a strong incentive to be thorough.

I admire medical professionals who risk their lives to help save the lives of others. I feel the least they deserve is the best possible care.

 

ETA: If there is any risk of Ebola spreading in the US, it will not be from these doctors or nurses who are known to be infected - it will be some random traveler who travels without symptoms during the 21 day incubation period and is not aware of his or her exposure.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Ebola is much more likely to be spread by a carrier unknowingly bringing it into the US than by it somehow breaking quarantine at Emory.

[Caroline]

I live in the area. I have students whose parents are on staff at Emory. My DH's office is down the street, so he has contact with Emory staff all the time.

 

We are not the least bit worried about an outbreak. Emory is a great hospital, and one of the reasons we like living in Atlanta. The precautions are in place. These two healthcare workers will receive excellent care. I truly see this as a great thing. Hopefully new Ebola protocols can be put in place so that people not so lucky to be treated at Emory can be treated with as good of care elsewhere. I am sure research by both Emory and the CDC about Ebola care is being conducted. These are some of the top medical researchers in the world.

 

We are more at risk from unknown people with Ebola than these two known people.

[underthebridge]

Hearing that the US is bringing the patients home for treatment makes me feel proud to be an American. Not many countries, if any, would fly their citizens back for treatment. I hope the efforts of the compassionate health care workers pay off and that the current outbreak is quickly arrested.

[StaceyinLA]

Yes, I guess I did mean spread of virus, although I realize at this point it isn't airborne. My only concern would be if it mutated somehow, which is unlikely, but not unheard of.

 

I am very glad they will get top quality care. After all these people have done for others, I think it's the least that can be done for them. I certainly don't begrudge them being brought here by any stretch; was just wondering what others thought.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm very happy that they will be getting excellent health care.  

[DawnM]

So thankful! I know their families are thrilled to have them where they can receive the best care possible.  As an MK from Africa I am following this very closely.  

[poppy]

It is scary as heck but still completely right to bring them home.

[Moxie]

I have no doubt we will have Ebola in the US at some point. I don't think it will come from a hospital and I'm not concerned about any kind of epidemic here.

[redsquirrel]

We have had the Ebola virus here for a long time. There are researchers working with it, hoping to find a cure, just like with any other infectious disease.

[Slartibartfast]

I am glad they brought the patients here.

 

Dh's uncle works with Doctors without Borders and I would like to think he would be brought home if he had an illness. 

 

 

These people were doing good work. It isn't as if they are dumb tourists who hadn't heeded warnings. I think all Americans should be proud of the work they are doing and we should take care of them.

[Cindy in FL.]

I think it's great that they're being brought home for treatment. It must be a real comfort for their families as well.

[TranquilMind]

I am very glad that they are being sent to the US where they will get better care. I wish all Ebola patients were able get the same care these two Americans will get.

I just heard on the radio that several health care practicioners have died, despite being all suited up in hazmat suits and full gear.

 

So, my question is how they are going to curtail the spread?   How will the plane be disinfected?  What is the plan to not loose it here, because all Americans or even just all folks near Emory are not going to be wearing hazmat suits. 

[SKL]

I am sure they are doing their best to quarantine them.  I see no good reason not to let them come back.  Hope they get better.

[Moxie]

I just heard on the radio that several health care practicioners have died, despite being all suited up in hazmat suits and full gear.

 

So, my question is how they are going to curtail the spread? How will the plane be disinfected? What is the plan to not loose it here, because all Americans or even just all folks near Emory are not going to be wearing hazmat suits.

There are some things I can't control and, honestly, don't need to know. The highly-trained folks in charge owe me no explanation. I think we should all just assume that everything is being handled properly and quit Monday morning quarterbacking. Seriously, no snark, why do you need to know what happens to the plane? What can you do with that information? Nothing.

[Mergath]

I just heard on the radio that several health care practicioners have died, despite being all suited up in hazmat suits and full gear.

 

So, my question is how they are going to curtail the spread? How will the plane be disinfected? What is the plan to not loose it here, because all Americans or even just all folks near Emory are not going to be wearing hazmat suits.

It's because even the safest protocols they can manage there are far below the crappiest hospital in the US. If you watch the news, they have to wash the hazmat suits in big buckets. They just don't have the resources in these African villages to do everything they need to in order to keep from getting sick. Here, that's not an issue.

[TranquilMind]

It's because even the safest protocols they can manage there are far below the crappiest hospital in the US. If you watch the news, they have to wash the hazmat suits in big buckets. They just don't have the resources in these African villages to do everything they need to in order to keep from getting sick. Here, that's not an issue.

I hope you are right.

 

I've known several people who've gotten infections from the hospital workers' poor practices, and that's here. 

[goldberry]

It's because even the safest protocols they can manage there are far below the crappiest hospital in the US. If you watch the news, they have to wash the hazmat suits in big buckets. They just don't have the resources in these African villages to do everything they need to in order to keep from getting sick. Here, that's not an issue.

 

My piddly little rural volunteer fire department has gear washers especially made to disinfect gear exposed to hazardous fluids.  We are sure not washing them in buckets!

[Mergath]

I hope you are right.

 

I've known several people who've gotten infections from the hospital workers' poor practices, and that's here.

I think doctors and nurses will tend to be far more careful when dealing with ebola.

[Storygirl]

I hope you are right.

 

I've known several people who've gotten infections from the hospital workers' poor practices, and that's here. 

 

Sure, sometimes there is cross contamination in hospitals, but what you have to remember is that these are very highly trained people who know exactly what to do, working in a state of the art facility made specifically to handle these kind of infectious diseases. I don't think you need to worry.

[goldberry]

It is scary as heck but still completely right to bring them home.

 

I disagree with the "scary as heck" part because of the other reasons already posted here, but I agree - it is completely right. You can never guarantee everything.  Sometimes you just have to do what is right and behave like human beings.

[Slartibartfast]

I just heard on the radio that several health care practicioners have died, despite being all suited up in hazmat suits and full gear.

 

So, my question is how they are going to curtail the spread?   How will the plane be disinfected?  What is the plan to not loose it here, because all Americans or even just all folks near Emory are not going to be wearing hazmat suits. 

 

They are very different conditions.

 

We have a sewer system, the hospitals are air conditioned and the healthcare workers are not working for hours in stifling conditions where they might slip, the washing facilities are far superior than a hose and a bucket, they actually have walls rather than just a tent, the floors can be cleaned, they are not just dirt.

 

 

 

So many health care workers have been getting infected. Do you have a sense of why? Are there practices that might be easily correctable that you could have an impact on?

There are a lot of talented people there in the field already, not just from international organizations but people who’ve been working there a very long time. In Sierra Leone, for example, though they haven’t had Ebola before, they’ve dealt with Lassa fever, another viral disease that causes hemorrhagic fever, at Kenema — one of the places where Dr. Khan, the leading physician who just died of Ebola, worked. That center has dealt with Lassa fever for over 25 years, and there are nurses there who have long experience. The issue is the amount of patients. You have nurses there who were taking care of maybe a dozen Lassa patients and now they have to see 70 Ebola patients. I think the major issue is the fact that the health care system is so overwhelmed.

One of the major ways to alleviate that would be the presence of more personal protective equipment and more sterile medical equipment in general. I know that the PPE — the personal protective equipment — is a major concern because there’s a dearth of it right now in the field.

Also, we understand that the virus can be transmitted from surfaces — so if someone comes into contact with bodily fluids with the virus in them on a surface, that’s another way to get it. The virus can live outside the host for a couple of days. So this contamination of the environment is another important component — and that’s very difficult if you can imagine 70 patients in a small space. Ebola is not hard to kill, so it’s easy to avoid contamination in general. It’s only because of the number of people and poor health infrastructure that it becomes difficult.

 

 

 

Still, it’s so baffling that these leading, incredibly knowledgable doctors are getting infected. How can that happen?

The number of patients plays a major role, and the lack of resources is a major concern. Also, here, when we train people to take care of patients with highly communicable infections, specifically Ebola and other hemorrhagic fevers, we always say that you can’t be in that heavy protective equipment for more than a short amount of time, and you can’t be on shift for more than four hours. And that’s with one patient, maybe. Now you have docs who are taking care of 40 patients and they’re doing it in seven-hour shifts or even longer. That could definitely contribute to infection among health care workers.

The Drs are overwhelmed and exhausted.

 

http://commonhealth.wbur.org/2014/08/ebola-outbreak-boston-doctor

 

There are some pictures with this article

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/01/us-health-ebola-healthworkers-idUSKBN0G14FR20140801

[Laurie4b]

I am glad they are being brought here. It might even result in new understanding/protocols of how to care for someone who contracts Ebola. I'm very glad that the infected doctor was able to walk into the hospital.

[goldberry]

They have those short shifts here in America because longer shifts lead to exhaustion and therefore increase the chance of mistakes. The people working in Africa don't have those choices.  Although, really they do, they just choose to take care of the patients instead.

[Mrs Mungo]

One of my kids was recently in the hospital with enhanced precautions. They don't require a hazmat suit, but they do require a new gown and new gloves when a provider enters the room and they dispose of it before leaving the room, washing their hands and using hand sanitizer (both right by the door) upon entering and leaving the room. This prevents the spread of certain infections between high risk kids. They don't have the luxury of disposing of the materials in Africa, they are washing them in less than sanitary consitions. The precautions and sanitation are totally different animals in the US.

[ocelotmom]

I hope you are right.

 

I've known several people who've gotten infections from the hospital workers' poor practices, and that's here. 

 

I have absolutely no doubt that, if ebola came here, some healthcare workers would catch it. People are careless, and sometimes things like needlesticks just happen despite being as careful as possible. I don't think anyone is trying to say that there would be no spread whatsoever in the US, simply that it's unlikely to become a widespread problem.

[idnib]

I'm really glad they're here, both for their own sakes and also for anything we may be able to learn which will help this outbreak and future outbreaks.

 

I think one of them was transfused with the blood of a patient he himself saved, in order to get antibodies quickly. Aah, fate.

[SKL]

The person in front of you in the grocery line might have just flown back from that country and you would never know it.  I personally don't plan to worry about what I can't control.

[ocelotmom]

Ebola panic does worry me. Picture grocery stores immediately before a big storm, on a nationwide scale.  And what happens if 10% of the population decides not to risk it and stays home from work?

[swimmermom3]

Yes, I guess I did mean spread of virus, although I realize at this point it isn't airborne. My only concern would be if it mutated somehow, which is unlikely, but not unheard of.

 

I am very glad they will get top quality care. After all these people have done for others, I think it's the least that can be done for them. I certainly don't begrudge them being brought here by any stretch; was just wondering what others thought.

 

I am relieved on many counts, not just that the patients will receive the care that they are entitled to as American citizens. I have really worried that we are becoming a calloused, uncaring nation and this makes me feel more hopeful.

 

[December]

I am a little confused about how they can say that Ebola is so hard to spread, that you have to have direct contact with body fluids, but then these doctors came down with it without it being known how, even though they were taking every precaution.  I would feel a lot better about it if they could say something like, "These doctors caught Ebola because of X breach in protocol, which would not happen in the U.S. because we have these additional precautions in place."  Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but so far I haven't found this information in the media.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I am a little confused about how they can say that Ebola is so hard to spread, that you have to have direct contact with body fluids, but then these doctors came down with it without it being known how, even though they were taking every precaution.  I would feel a lot better about it if they could say something like, "These doctors caught Ebola because of X breach in protocol, which would not happen in the U.S. because we have these additional precautions in place."  Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but so far I haven't found this information in the media.

They were doctors who were directly working with Ebola patients in a country where many people don't even want to be treated - so not random doctors.  Also "taking every precaution" should be restated as "taking every precaution available to them in a non-developed country".  So yes they could say that they breached US protocol and that there are additional precautions in place here.  

[JoJosMom]

Some encouraging news about the American doctor being treated at Emory:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/american-aid-worker-stricken-ebola-being-treated-u-091209284.html;_ylt=AwrTWfwjZN5TPC4AE6vQtDMD

 

I hope that the second American gets evacuated soon.  Those poor souls.  What amazing faith and service.

 

Editing to add an additional link.  I saw this post on a blog that I read.  It contains some good information about the Emory facility and infectious diseases in general, so I thought I'd share:

 

http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/08/you-have-nothing-to-fear-from-ebola-but-fear-itself/

[December]

From what I understand they were still treating patients wearing hazmat suits and decontaminating the suits afterwards.  Someone mentioned the suits were being decontaminated in buckets...Were they not decontaminated prior to the doctor removing the suit?? If that was the case, then I could see how they could have become infected that way, but even in a developing nation not sure why you wouldn't have buckets of the decontamination solution poured over your suit before removing it, if buckets were your only option.

[Stacia]

I am glad they are being brought here. It might even result in new understanding/protocols of how to care for someone who contracts Ebola. I'm very glad that the infected doctor was able to walk into the hospital.

 

:iagree:

 

In addition to the hopes that the treatment here can somehow facilitate their recovery (& I was cheered to see that the doctor was able to walk out of the ambulance into the hospital room), I think it's so important that healthcare workers, researchers, & infectious disease workers here in the US can see this first-hand, hopefully speeding medical developments, containment protocols, etc... for future outbreaks (whether here, in Africa, or elsewhere in the world).

 

Perhaps it seems scary to think of them bringing an infectious disease here, but, otoh, the CDC is here & has many, many samples of infectious & dangerous diseases in their facilities already.

 

One way or another, it is likely that ebola would hit our country's shores. I think proactively bringing it in, with prepared staff & facilities, is the right thing to do for the patients involved, as well as a way of (hopefully) prepping & studying the handling & care of an ebola infection w/in our healthcare facilities, CDC guidelines, etc.... Practicing the right thing to do/being proactive is a good way to prep for the eventuality that it will spread to more countries (whether this year or a few years down the road).

 

 

[SKL]

Let's just say if it was me who came down with a fast-moving deadly virus, I hope my country would not leave me to my fate in some developing country. If it was my kid, I hope my country wouldn't leave her there.

[TravelingChris]

One of the articles linked above said that we have had five people in the last decade here in America who had contracted hemorrhagic fevers- some Marburg and some Lassa.  There was no epidemic here.  We don't have the same cultural practices regarding sickness and death as do those countries.  My daughter was asking why the funeral home people weren't taking precautions.  My husband stared at her--- she didn't really get it that these were jungle communities and they are very poor and there are no funeral homes, no morticians, none of that.  Furthermore the people are very superstitious and there were rumours circulating that the hospitals were making people sick so lots of sick patients left and spread the infection that way.  Even with the horrible conditions and the very high mortality rate, this current outbreak only has 60% fatality rate compared to the 90% it would be if no medical help was given.  That means those medical personnel who are there or who were there, actually saved a lot of lives.  I am very happy that the doctor was sent here and was able to walk in and hope that the nurse is also getting better and will soon be here.

[FaithManor]

From what I understand they were still treating patients wearing hazmat suits and decontaminating the suits afterwards. Someone mentioned the suits were being decontaminated in buckets...Were they not decontaminated prior to the doctor removing the suit?? If that was the case, then I could see how they could have become infected that way, but even in a developing nation not sure why you wouldn't have buckets of the decontamination solution poured over your suit before removing it, if buckets were your only option.

I don't think you have an accurate idea of the conditions these aidworkers face. This is not America. You do not have an overwhelming amount of safe water. There is no corner pharmacy to run to whe you are out of disinfectant. You don't have an autoclave or anything else, and it's the only bio suit you have - if you have one at all - so if it gets a breach, there is nothing you can do but hope for the best. It can take weeks for the International Red Cross to get more supplies to you and it's iffy what you'll get. You are dependent entirely on the benevolence of drug companies, and medical supply houses. Some of them are generous. Some are stingy. Whatever it is has to be brought into countries with strife, extreme theft, no delivery system, and to areas that may not even have roads leading to the village.

 

Dirt floors, tent, visqueen, duct tape, very little light, rationing of supplies, extreme exhaustion, dehydration common amongst the workers, boiling the water to make it useable...it's an untenable situation.

 

So no, you can't just choose to douse yourself in the disinfectant because you don't have the luxury of extra supplies and no matter what, the suit must be scrubbed.

[AlmiraGulch]

Because I cannot seem to help myself...

 

[KarenC]

They are American citizens.  What else should we do with them?

 

If we are willing to rescue citizens from other countries and trade for them, how can we not bring sick or injured citizens home and treat them?

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

I agree strongly with much of what was mentioned upthread for why it is right to bring them home.  

 

And I also strongly agree that I would much rather they brought them here now, before there may be an outbreak (almost certainly not from these two patients being kept in isolation at a very sophisticated facility with highly trained personnel) so that the disease can be studied carefully BEFORE there is a crisis on United States soil.  As others have mentioned, it isn't really these two known patients that are the real danger.  It is all the people traveling overseas that have contracted it and don't know they have it yet.  

 

But honestly the odds of getting Ebola are pretty darn small.  There are MANY diseases that are far more likely for someone from the states to get.

[Alice]

I am glad they will receive care in a modern hospital. I am not worried about an outbreak here being caused by this; the virus is not airborne, and I trust that proper techniques for isolating the infected will be used to prevent a spread through bodily fluids - we have the technological means, and the people involved have a strong incentive to be thorough.

I admire medical professionals who risk their lives to help save the lives of others. I feel the least they deserve is the best possible care.

 

ETA: If there is any risk of Ebola spreading in the US, it will not be from these doctors or nurses who are known to be infected - it will be some random traveler who travels without symptoms during the 21 day incubation period and is not aware of his or her exposure.

 

 

I think this is true, however, one good thing about Ebola is that it is not contagious until after the person shows symptoms. So it is much easier to contain in a healthcare/hospital setting than a disease where the person is contagious before they even know they have symptoms.  The workers caring for the two individuals at Emory will be hyperaware of their own symptoms, and if they develop any will be immediately quarantined and treated. That is different from a disease where a doctor develops symptoms and you have to worry about everywhere that doctor has been in the past three weeks.