Super vent, don't read if you can't handle my extreme anger and disappointment

[Anne in CA]

Just was making dinner with my 15yo dd and we were joking around and it came out that she does not believe I would ever give money to charity at all. That I am so selfish I would never ever give money to help anyone. Just for clarification, she has seen me give up my own Christmas presents to buy gifts for homeless kids, she has seen me go on numerous mission trips and support many projects. DH and I have always given away an extensive amount of money to charity and while we don't brag, it's not a secret that we are generous people. Anyone trying to help anyone with a need puts dh and I on the email chain.

 

My big vent with this is that I know dd's info on this subject came from her 25yo older sister (my step daughter) who has been actively poisoning dd against me for about 3 years. I very selflessly gave up many years of my life to raise this girl, who was never grateful, but I would never expect gratitude from a child, or even an adult. I am just at the end of my rope with this. I did not realize that the oldest was poisoning the youngest until she came to stay with us for eight weeks last fall. At that time I caught her out several times telling different people in the family bad things about the others to stir up drama. Which we did not need because we had just moved and started a new business, but that didn't slow her down. She told everyone that she could that she came to help us with our business, but the truth was she had no job and no money saved so we gave her a job and a place to stay and she paid us out with lies, selfishness and a lot of passive aggressive behavior. In such close quarters, and working together I came to realize that she is the reason that my 15yo dd has been so negative and hateful to me for the last three years.

 

I understand that 15yo dd will some day, maybe even soon, realize how she has been manipulated, but by then sorting out what lies the older told and repairing our relationship just may not be possible with an older teen. I can not say strongly enough that I have been nothing but good to the older one, and have had nothing but evil repaid to me. Not to mention that she is currently enrolled in Bible college and she is often disappointed that she is never chosen for any leadership positions. Humm. It looks like I am not the only one disappointed with her character. 

 

Also, it is never fair to completely criticize her because she learned this double dealing from her mother, and her mother's mother who are just like this. AGGGGHHHHH.

 

 

 

[fraidycat]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

  That would have wounded me deeply.  I don't know exactly how I would have reacted in the moment, especially if there was that much water under the bridge to begin with regarding the probable source of her statement.  Wow.  So very, very sorry that you are having to deal with this, and something that is not really under your complete control. (BTDT by the way, with regard to poisonous relatives :( ).  

 

I agree with hearthliealion, did you ask her why she thought that and then genuinely listen to her response?   I do wonder what your response was?  I don't know if I would have thought to ask in a rational voice and then just listened to her response, maybe thought about it for a bit before saying anything.   After the fact, though, I think I would have wished I had and been really wondering if my DD could come up with clear specifics on why she thought that way and how she might react if I calmly brought up examples that refuted that statement.

 

Would you consider going to counseling, at least temporarily, with your dd, to try and nip this in the bud?

[Twigs]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[unsinkable]

Anne, I'm really sorry.

 

That sounds terrible.

[Danestress]

What a terrible situation. Would your husband be able to talk to either girl in a way that would make a difference?

[Alexigail]

Hugs.  I hope that your 15yo starts to see things more clearly soon.  

[bettyandbob]

like heartlikealion said ask. 

 

Don't bring up older sister at all. 

 

Ask why does dd think that. If she say you've never given money/time/things before, ask her to clarify. Ask if she has seen your Christmas or mission activities. If not, suggest maybe she could participate with you so she could learn more about how giving is important. I know you say dd has seen you do these things, but maybe she needs a jolt in what participating in them means. 

 

 

[JessReplanted]

I'm sorry.

 

(Not that it's the same thing, but,) a few weeks ago my 11 year old son told us that he thought we had him in guitar lessons so that he would become a famous rock star and we could take all of his money.  :scared:  :svengo:

 

We have been struggling financially for a while, and we sacrifice to give him lessons because it's something he's good at and seems to enjoy. We were shocked that he would think something so terrible about us (and he came up with it all on his own).

 

I think sometimes kids are just ridiculous.

 

 

[elegantlion]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  I'm sorry. 

[Chelle in MO]

I think sometimes kids are just ridiculous.

 

Have you been eavesdropping over here?????

 

OP, that has to be so frustrating.    :grouphug:

[Anne in CA]

Thanks for the hugs and good thoughts. I KNEW I would get good suggestions and the people who said to just ask her why she thought that without bringing up her oldest sister were very helpful. I will do that next time for sure.  All I did this time were remind her of some things that I thought she could remember and she hinted that I had only done those things to look good to other people or that they were social obligations. Since some of them would have been anonymous outside our family I just dropped the whole subject and tried not to show how hurt I was that she held that opinion of me in spite of the life we have lived. 

 

There is no talking to the older girl. She knows what she is doing is sin and she has been very devious to hide it. My son and dd were having fun last Feb and I told my ds how happy it made me to see him and his younger sister getting along so well. He responded that they always got along well when the older one wasn't around. Then he went on to make some spot on observations about the older one that broke my heart. He wasn't mad or betrayed, even though he may not know that his older sister tried to convince his dad he had a porn problem to make trouble between ds and his dad. Dh tossed ds's room and computer and there was no porn at all. Plus, ds does not exhibit any other signs of such a problem. Just his older sister's say so, and she wouldn't have an open discussion about it with anyone else, she just wanted to talk to dh alone. Yuck.

[OneStepAtATime]

Thanks for the hugs and good thoughts. I KNEW I would get good suggestions and the people who said to just ask her why she thought that without bringing up her oldest sister were very helpful. I will do that next time for sure.  All I did this time were remind her of some things that I thought she could remember and she hinted that I had only done those things to look good to other people or that they were social obligations. Since some of them would have been anonymous outside our family I just dropped the whole subject and tried not to show how hurt I was that she held that opinion of me in spite of the life we have lived. 

 

There is no talking to the older girl. She knows what she is doing is sin and she has been very devious to hide it. My son and dd were having fun last Feb and I told my ds how happy it made me to see him and his younger sister getting along so well. He responded that they always got along well when the older one wasn't around. Then he went on to make some spot on observations about the older one that broke my heart. He wasn't mad or betrayed, even though he may not know that his older sister tried to convince his dad he had a porn problem to make trouble between ds and his dad. Dh tossed ds's room and computer and there was no porn at all. Plus, ds does not exhibit any other signs of such a problem. Just his older sister's say so, and she wouldn't have an open discussion about it with anyone else, she just wanted to talk to dh alone. Yuck.

Total yuck!

[Catwoman]

I'm so sorry, Anne. Can you find a way to limit contact between your 15yo and your stepdd?

[Anne in CA]

Cat, I have done everything I could to limit contact once I figured out what was going on, and mostly it is working. Without the constant negative drain of the older one the younger one has become much more loving and pleasant to the rest of us since the older one visited at Christmas. I refused to let the younger one visit the older one over spring break but  I did not give the real reason why, I just said the younger one had too much home work to go away for a week and she acknowledged that to be true.

 

The issue is, I have blown off too many things with the younger one just thinking she was a hormonal adolescent. These things should have been addressed back when they started, but I ignored the accusations against my and my husband's character, because they were so off base I did not take them seriously and felt that dd would stop acting like this when she grew up a little. When I caught the older one constantly stirring up trouble last fall I realized that every time she has come home for a holiday she has been working on upsetting the family. That is why the really bad behavior always flared up after holidays. I thought it was holiday let down. I was wrong. 

 

Today the whole idea that I am so selfish was really a sucker punch. Especially since only my oldest would think so. She doesn't like to work and feels dh and I should support her completely, including travel. To me, that is not charity, that is enabling, but she is very resentful over any nice thing we do for someone else. She feels everything should revolve around her. We have done many lovely things for her, but it is never enough, and even dh has clued in that there is just not enough that you could do for her to make her happy. 

[OneStepAtATime]

Cat, I have done everything I could to limit contact once I figured out what was going on, and mostly it is working. Without the constant negative drain of the older one the younger one has become much more loving and pleasant to the rest of us since the older one visited at Christmas. I refused to let the younger one visit the older one over spring break but  I did not give the real reason why, I just said the younger one had too much home work to go away for a week and she acknowledged that to be true.

 

The issue is, I have blown off too many things with the younger one just thinking she was a hormonal adolescent. These things should have been addressed back when they started, but I ignored the accusations against my and my husband's character, because they were so off base I did not take them seriously and felt that dd would stop acting like this when she grew up a little. When I caught the older one constantly stirring up trouble last fall I realized that every time she has come home for a holiday she has been working on upsetting the family. That is why the really bad behavior always flared up after holidays. I thought it was holiday let down. I was wrong. 

 

Today the whole idea that I am so selfish was really a sucker punch. Especially since only my oldest would think so. She doesn't like to work and feels dh and I should support her completely, including travel. To me, that is not charity, that is enabling, but she is very resentful over any nice thing we do for someone else. She feels everything should revolve around her. We have done many lovely things for her, but it is never enough, and even dh has clued in that there is just not enough that you could do for her to make her happy. 

I wonder if counseling for the oldest would help...she sounds like she needs it.  

 

Although when my best friend's ex-step mom was still her step-mom and exhibited this sort of behavior, they did all end up in counseling.  And the counselor told my best friend, during a private session, that it was pointless for her to keep coming, that she would lead a healthier and happier life if she just avoided her step mother as much as humanly possible and to watch her back.   :eek:

 

So incredibly sorry that you and your family are having to deal with such an unhealthy situation.

[Katy]

I'd have a straightforward talk.  And though I'm not really one to commonly recommend therapy, I'd ask around for a good children & family therapist, schedule an appointment for you and DD15, and I'd say exactly what you stated above in your post to the therapist in front of your DD.  Exactly.  And then I'd ask for advice.

 

She's 15.  She's at the last stage of horrible before she turns into an adult (it generally lasts about 3 years).

 

But it won't hurt her to understand she's wounded you deeply.

 

And it won't hurt you to hear what you've done to her directly to make her believe her stepsister's evaluation.

 

I'd leave stepdaughter out of it.  It sounds like nature or nurture, she is who she is, which is exactly like her mom.  She'll either grow up or not, but trying to change an adult won't do anything but create animosity.  Course, if she comes back to you for help again, you can make therapy (perhaps cognitive therapy) a condition.

[Anne in CA]

Thank you. I needed some sympathy. For obvious reasons this just cannot be discussed with RL friends. She would be very angry about my posting on an internet forum, but I just cannot let RL friends know the whole situation. It would humiliate dh, who is very upset by her behavior.

 

Older dd would not go to counseling. She did some things at an internship that required intervention and she lost her job rather than go to counseling. She is also leaving Bible college rather than do the counseling courses required for a bachelor's degree. She is going to go to a different school next year for business administration. She has always said she would never go to counseling for any reason.

 

Younger dd should probably get some counseling with me. It is a good idea. I need to find a good source.

[goldberry]

I'm sorry.  I am one to try to believe the best in people, and it is very hard when you are confronted with someone who is being purposefully vicious and destructive.  I am glad for your family that you realized what was happening and have made all efforts to stop it. I hope you and your family find healing from that experience. 

 

I would focus on your bonding with DD15.  Just keep working on building your relationship and making it stronger.  She will see what the truth is.  But one thought...I don't hide it from my DD when she hurts me.  I don't "get hurt" all the time...so when she knows she has hurt me, it really impacts her and gives her cause to think. 

[zoobie]

She sounds like DH's mother, who has borderline personality disorder. The manipulation and poisoning is so devious and pervasive... He does not have contact with her. If your SDD will not get counseling, it could be useful for the rest of the family to learn how to set healthy boundaries with her. I hope your 15 year old is able to see you and your true nature clearly in time. :grouphug:

[bettyandbob]

I think counseling should be a requirement before oldest dd is permitted to visit your home or stay for any period of time--even if she is on the verge of finding herself homeless again. 

 

Have you been helping with the cost of college? She is 25. Is there a concrete point you've told her she will no longer be funded by you? At 25 she should not be expecting dad and stepmom to fund her education/housing/life. Although there are quite a few 25 yos who do get financial support through living at home or assistance with tuition, there are no 25 yos in that situation I know who openly express an "I'm owed this" attitude. Such an attitude would keep a person from forming relationships with peers and being able to hold a job. By providing assistance you are probably enabling her attitude. Your dh may need to cut her off. Doing so will probably result in her having problems for a few years, but it may be the only way for her to get herself together. 
 

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Lizzie in Ma]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[Scarlett]

I believe counseling is a waste of money if and until a person sees a need to change themselves.

[trulycrabby]

:grouphug:

[Hikin' Mama]

I'm so sorry, Anne. I would be angry too. Hugs.

[Denise in Florida]

I don't know what you responded to your dd or if you even want advice. But I believe 15 is old enough to have a straight forward talk. I would ask her what makes her say that? Then just listen. Now she may say something that has nothing to do with her sister or perhaps she will omit that part. But I'd be curious to hear her reply if I was you so you have a chance to "set the record straight." Though, I don't know why she would take her sister's comments to heart if they conflict with what she has observed over the years living with you.

 

Maybe she is calling you selfish for something that it outside of the realm of money/church work. Some story she heard from her sister. Just ask. Clear the air. The truth always comes out.

 

Dear OP, I am sorry you and your dd are going through this.

 

I want to emphasize what heartlikealion said in the bolded area.  I am a Christian and give to my church, but I have met many Christians who support church project, missions, etc. whom I would not consider generous people.  

 

There can be (I have no idea if this applies to your situation) a "Church" giving mindset that is ultimately selfish and unkind. I know that sounds counter-intuitive but it does exist.  It is possible that  DD15 (or her older sister) perceive you in this way, whether it is true or not.  Please speak to your 15 dd and ask what she sees. Don't mention the sister. 

 

Obviously, I don't know your heart or what dd15 is thinking. If this doesn't apply ignore it. Older sister does have an impact, but there may be a misunderstanding closer to home as well.

 

I really wish you the best, I hope open discussions clear the air. 

[Anne in CA]

I think counseling should be a requirement before oldest dd is permitted to visit your home or stay for any period of time--even if she is on the verge of finding herself homeless again. 

 

Have you been helping with the cost of college? She is 25. Is there a concrete point you've told her she will no longer be funded by you? At 25 she should not be expecting dad and stepmom to fund her education/housing/life. Although there are quite a few 25 yos who do get financial support through living at home or assistance with tuition, there are no 25 yos in that situation I know who openly express an "I'm owed this" attitude. Such an attitude would keep a person from forming relationships with peers and being able to hold a job. By providing assistance you are probably enabling her attitude. Your dh may need to cut her off. Doing so will probably result in her having problems for a few years, but it may be the only way for her to get herself together. 

 

The only thing we have been doing to help with the cost of college in the last year is pay for her cell phone. I know it is uncommon for a 25yo to feel so owed, but her mother is almost 50 and living in a house paid for by her father and getting money from her father every month so it probably seems mean of us not to provide more for her. We did pay for college for dd when she was just out of high school but she chose to do an internship instead of college and was then kicked out of the internship when she refused to get counseling for some of her passive-aggressive behavior. We offered to pay for college for her at that time, but she did not want to go. At age 23 she decided to go to Bible college, which we did not pay for because she was just going to Bible college to avoid real life and we did not want to waste our money. And it would have been a waste of money because there are no outward signs that she is a Bible student.

[Denise in Florida]

I'm sorry.

 

(Not that it's the same thing, but,) a few weeks ago my 11 year old son told us that he thought we had him in guitar lessons so that he would become a famous rock star and we could take all of his money.  :scared:  :svengo:

 

We have been struggling financially for a while, and we sacrifice to give him lessons because it's something he's good at and seems to enjoy. We were shocked that he would think something so terrible about us (and he came up with it all on his own).

 

I think sometimes kids are just ridiculous.

 

Children really don't see the world the way adults, especially their parents, do.  

 

No amount of explaining it helps until they are out on their own.  They can then come home and see their parents from the outside.

 

I had a discussion with one of my girls last summer where she mentioned several childhood events and then told me I had been right.  :thumbup1:     

 

I wish I had had a magical time traveling friend who could have told me that back then.  :lol:  

 

No advice...just keep talking to them and letting them talk to you 

[Haiku]

My dd acted similarly toward me. She once left for a week of visiting her aunt without even saying goodbye to me. I came to find out that it was because she believed I threw away a pair of her sweat pants because I didn't like that they said Aeropostle on them.

 

While she was gone I found the sweat pants in a pile of her neglected laundry in the corner of the basement.

 

I flat out told her that she had absolutely no reason to believe that I was a thief and a liar and a sneak who would throw away her clothing for no reason. I told her that I had never behaved in any manner that could lead her to believe that about me and that she needed to do some serious soul searching.

 

Things were very rocky for us for a few months after that, but eventually she apologized.

 

I'm sorry your dd hurt you so badly.

[Reefgazer]

Not sure if you even want advice, but if so:

 

1.  Avoid older stepdaughter as much as possible; keep away from younger DD.

 

2.  Ask DD if she really believes what her sister has told her.  If she truly believes you are not generous, demand that she donate the same percentage of her income to charity as you do, for one year.

[myfunnybunch]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I am sorry, Anne. That would really hurt my feelings too.

 

Cat

[Anne]

Anne, I wouldn't wait until the "next time" with your 15 yo, I would go back to her now and say something on the order of, "honey, I just can't stop thinking about what you said the other day and I would really like to know what made you think that?"

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

(another) Anne

[Laurie4b]

Anne, I wouldn't wait until the "next time" with your 15 yo, I would go back to her now and say something on the order of, "honey, I just can't stop thinking about what you said the other day and I would really like to know what made you think that?"

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

(another) Anne

 

Absolutely. This kind of stuff is better handled when not right in the situation. I am a huge fan of the "take them out to dinner and have a conversation" approach. In a public place, neither of you is likely to raise a voice, go off and slam a door, etc. A restaurant meal has connotations of relaxation, pleasure, etc. Those soak into the conversation. It's proactice and deliberate.

 

I would go with dh and try very hard not to be defensive. Try to ask questions. Plant doubt where it's warranted rather than making outright accusations against oldest sdd. How do you know your sister is trustworthy? How do you know she's not trying to cause trouble between us? (If dd knows she did it between other people, that would help.)What if she is trying to split us up and I'm really not all those bad things and she makes you think I am? 

 

It is pretty ineffective to try to defend your own virtue and reputation. Having dh answer accusations against you not being generous, etc. would be  more effective than answering them yourself.

 

You might also look over some sites on borderline personality disorder or narcisstic personality disorder. At some point, you might have your dd read those.

 

Is there anyone else in the family who has oldest sd's number? (metaphorically speaking) If so, having them drop comments that don't seem to be directed to dd might be effective. Stuff like "Can you believe how many people oldest step dd has tricked into believing her made-up stories?"  would be helpful.

 

Taking her out to dinner to discuss is also part of the other strategy you want to employ: that of actively building your relationship with dd. Do things with her whether she's been a turkey or not. Show unconditional love and support. When possible, let dh be the one to give consequences.

[Lisbeth]

It's interesting that the oldest is so afraid of therapy. That sounds like a sociopath or similar who knows exactly what she is but is petrified that others will find out.  I would not play her games.  I would call her out directly, tell her that you know what she is doing, and inform her that it will not be tolerated. No visits or contact with underage kids until she successfully completes therapy and has shown normal, non toxic progress in her life for at least one year. She needs a major dose of reality. If she is unable to change, she has no place poisoning your life. Anyway, I am only going on what I can tell of the situation via these posts. I really feel for you.

[Anne in CA]

Unfortunately I think I will have to call out the oldest before she can come back for a visit. She ruined my dh's Christmas, and I think she knows that he is not happy with her either. She would never agree to go to therapy for the privilege of being with our family, and I don't think dh would require her to as unhappy as he was Christmas night when she got the youngest to storm out of our home in a big huff over nothing. But I think I will have to make the oldest aware that causing more grief will cause me to cause her some back. 

 

I think that I will have to decide if I can find good counseling for the youngest because I am not sure that I am capable of talking to her and not making any situation worse. No matter what  I say I seem to make things worse with everything I say. I am super sensitive about it. I have never been able to win someone over who really doesn't like me and the stakes are so much higher with my own little girl who I used to have a wonderful relationship with that I just don't know that there is much I can do on my own.

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Unfortunately I think I will have to call out the oldest before she can come back for a visit. She ruined my dh's Christmas, and I think she knows that he is not happy with her either. She would never agree to go to therapy for the privilege of being with our family, and I don't think dh would require her to as unhappy as he was Christmas night when she got the youngest to storm out of our home in a big huff over nothing. But I think I will have to make the oldest aware that causing more grief will cause me to cause her some back. 

 

I think that I will have to decide if I can find good counseling for the youngest because I am not sure that I am capable of talking to her and not making any situation worse. No matter what  I say I seem to make things worse with everything I say. I am super sensitive about it. I have never been able to win someone over who really doesn't like me and the stakes are so much higher with my own little girl who I used to have a wonderful relationship with that I just don't know that there is much I can do on my own.

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[celticmom]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[eternalsummer]

Not sure if you even want advice, but if so:

 

1.  Avoid older stepdaughter as much as possible; keep away from younger DD.

 

2.  Ask DD if she really believes what her sister has told her.  If she truly believes you are not generous, demand that she donate the same percentage of her income to charity as you do, for one year.

 

percentage of income is not an equitable arrangement.  If I make a million a year and you make $10,000 a year, $100,000 means less to me in concrete terms than $1,000 means to you (because someone making $10,000/yr likely has little disposable income).

 

Also, giving money to charity is good and all, but not something I consider the height of generosity, and maybe DD feels the same way?  Possibly she sees generosity as being a more immediate kind of thing.

[eternalsummer]

I would let DH deal with your stepdaughter, and you deal with him.  

[Anne]

Unfortunately I think I will have to call out the oldest before she can come back for a visit. She ruined my dh's Christmas, and I think she knows that he is not happy with her either. She would never agree to go to therapy for the privilege of being with our family, and I don't think dh would require her to as unhappy as he was Christmas night when she got the youngest to storm out of our home in a big huff over nothing. But I think I will have to make the oldest aware that causing more grief will cause me to cause her some back. 

 

I think that I will have to decide if I can find good counseling for the youngest because I am not sure that I am capable of talking to her and not making any situation worse. No matter what  I say I seem to make things worse with everything I say. I am super sensitive about it. I have never been able to win someone over who really doesn't like me and the stakes are so much higher with my own little girl who I used to have a wonderful relationship with that I just don't know that there is much I can do on my own.

 

Said gently and with caring:  perhaps some counseling for you would be helpful?

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Anne

[Anne in CA]

I have a lot of questions but I don't expect you to answer any of them. Think of these more as just food for thought.

 

Where does she actually live? With mom? With a roommate? In a dorm? I thought she was done with the Bible college but I'm not sure.

(Reason I bring this up is because maybe she's never had to be too dependent. Maybe it's time she live on her own)She lives in the dorm at Bible college and will for six more months until she gets transfers to a state college for business administration.

 

How is she paying for things? Does she have a job? Is she somewhat self-sufficient or is she living rent-free somewhere and took out a loan for school?She is currently looking for a job as she just got back from a school trip to France, which she fund raised. She took out extensive loans for school because we knew she was just going to Bible college to avoid real life by living in the dorms.

 

If she is living with mom, is she benefiting from the monthly money? Or is that more like money to help mom make ends meet - food, necessities but not anything "fun."If she did live with her mom her mom would expect any money that she made to go to her. Her mom has no boundaries and that is a huge part of the her problems. She doesn't even like to visit her mother because the siblings she has at her mother's house are petty criminals who are into witchcraft except for the youngest sister. Her mom's house is also full of smoke and she can't breathe there.

 

Has anyone sat down with her lately to talk about her future? Her wants, expectations? Your family's wants/expectations? Whether or not she's happy and what would make her happy.

Her father and I have had many such conversations with her, but what she really wants to do is avoid taking any responsibility for herself. There is no amount of talking that fixes that problem. What she wants to do is sit in from of the TV 12 hours a day.

Has she always felt like a black sheep and creates drama because she is unhappy and doesn't know how to express herself/deal with it in a healthy way? Does she have anything "going for her"? Any interests, any good relationships - friends, significant other, roommate, etc? Maybe she is very lonely.She is interested and moderately talented in art, but will not work on her drawing enough to improve. She has lots of friends, she burns through room mates. She is too passive aggressive for a good roommate situation. I don't think she is lonely, but  I do think the heart of the issue is that she wants everyone to like her the best so she is always trying to get everyone else against each other. I think it is especially important to her that her younger sister love her best, even if it tears the rest of the family apart. Her mother poisoned her against other family members and has ruined the lives of her siblings on her mother's side of the family completely by her lying drama. 

 

Is there somewhere else she can go for Christmas? If she's going to be that badly behaved, I wouldn't blame you for excluding her. Actions have consequences. She has LOTS of places she could go, and she may choose to do that anyway without my excluding her. She knows I am not happy with her. She sent a groveling Mother's Day card. A year ago that would have melted my heart but I am in mamma bear mode now and she is in hurting the rest of the family mode. She always sends a groveling card after some hurtful behavior.

 

I don't know what the solution is but I just feel like with the right setting, atmosphere and the right person (not sure who this would be. One of you, therapist, friend) she could open up and maybe help her discover some personal goals to strive for. Right now I don't know if she has any. She would tell you that she has goals, but her real goal is not to grow up. She keeps changing her goals so that she has excuses not be be in a different place. She has never been one who could be tempted by a carrot. She has to be pushed. I started home schooling her because she REFUSED to do ANY school work in school. For the four years I home schooled her I sat at the table with her every day and didn't let her leave until she had done a certain amount of school work. That is how I started my home school journey. 

Many, many loving people have tried to help her set goals and move forward. My dh's mother won't talk to her about the future anymore because "She sure knows how to shine you on and keep you thinking she just needs a little help to get going, but she doesn't want to go anywhere."

 

 

It was good for me to answer these questions because it made me see that from someone else's point of view I really have no control over her. I wanted so much to save her from her mother, but at the end of the day she is deliberately choosing that behavior. It just seems so unfair to penalize someone for exhibiting behavior they were deliberately taught by a parent. 

 

[Reefgazer]

No, it's not equitable.  But it would get the point across effectively.  This is non-withstanding the fact that the kid has a parent who has given up how much (?) in personal time and income to homeschool her, which by definition if generous.  She needs to be taught a harsh lesson.  Perhaps the daughter could instead donate the time to charity that her mother donates to her in homeschooling her; that might be just as effective.

percentage of income is not an equitable arrangement.  If I make a million a year and you make $10,000 a year, $100,000 means less to me in concrete terms than $1,000 means to you (because someone making $10,000/yr likely has little disposable income).

 

Also, giving money to charity is good and all, but not something I consider the height of generosity, and maybe DD feels the same way?  Possibly she sees generosity as being a more immediate kind of thing.

 

[eternalsummer]

No, it's not equitable.  But it would get the point across effectively.  This is non-withstanding the fact that the kid has a parent who has given up how much (?) in personal time and income to homeschool her, which by definition if generous.  She needs to be taught a harsh lesson.  Perhaps the daughter could instead donate the time to charity that her mother donates to her in homeschooling her; that might be just as effective.

 

Taking care of your children is not charity.  It is your responsibility.  

 

If it is not equitable, it will not get the point across effectively, because it is not accurate and DD will see it as such.

[Danestress]

Not sure if you even want advice, but if so:

 

1. Avoid older stepdaughter as much as possible; keep away from younger DD.

 

2. Ask DD if she really believes what her sister has told her. If she truly believes you are not generous, demand that she donate the same percentage of her income to charity as you do, for one year.

I think the OP really wants to mend and renew her relationship with her younger daughter - not to prove a point at the expense of that relationship. I can't see how such a demand would achieve her goal. It's not about who contributed what to whom. It's about lifting a veil so her younger daughter can see truth in the face of malicious slander - Anne's kindness, generosity and integrity won't be 'proved' by such a ploy. Her younger daughter is a victim here too - as siblings often are in situations like this. She needs her mother to be kind, patient, and generous in spirit more than she needs to be punished for being swayed by what a malcontent sibling has convinced her to believe.

[myfunnybunch]

She needs to be taught a harsh lesson.

I am not sure a harsh lesson would be a step in the direction of relationship repair; those types of direct lessons are best learned when the relationship is very solid. Harshness at this point might inadvertently reinforce the messages that the older dd is giving to the younger dd, no matter how off base the older dd's information really is.

 

Cat

[jhschool]

I hope you found a good solution!

:grouphug:

[Anne in CA]

Well, my solution is to try and be patient, possibly until I get some professional help if I can get some good help. Today she asked if she could visit her older sister for a week this summer. Evidently her older sis asked her without running it by dh or me. I guess she is going to try to work around us. I made some credible excuses, so there was no stress and only moderate disappointment.