TracyP Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 My in-laws are struggling financially. They are 2 payments behind on their vehicle, phone/internet will be shut off next week, and they will not be making March's house payment. They have no income at this time. I am wondering what is our moral responsibility to them? Here goes the back story... DH's parents divorced when he was a baby and remarried when he was 19. His mom had a couple jobs for a few months but otherwise lived on welfare until she remarried. His dad always had a decent job (considering he only had a high school education) making 60K or so. Unfortunately, after paying back child support to the state of MN, buying cigarettes and beer there was never anything left over. :huh: I could go on and on about their poor financial decisions - the list is long. Two years ago FIL underwent ear surgery to repair his poor hearing, but instead was left with virtually no hearing. Due to this he lost his job. He has been denied once for disability, but they are going through the appeals process. We don't know if we should offer financial help. Part of me feels like we should. We have a small savings, a nice house, no vehicle payments, etc. We could afford to help them. (Afford as in we could still pay for food, not afford as in we wouldn't feel it) OTOH, until this year we made close to half what they did - in a much higher COL state. My dh is seasonal and we have no way to know what this year will bring. It really pisses me off to think of spending our money to cover their stupidity. And where does it stop? We already did give them $500 last summer. Do we pay their phone bill? Pay off their vehicle? Make a house payment? Then what? What will be different 30 days from now? FWIW, we are in MN and they are in AL, but my dh has offered a plane ticket and a place to stay to his mom. He does not get along with his dad. (That is for a different thread...) Any advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisbeth Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Why is MIL not working? I would say they need to experience some consequences in order to change. Cigarettes, beer, and if they eat out, have cell phones, etc, has to be on the bottom of the list of priorities. I would likely PURCHASE groceries to take over to get them started, them hp them find jobs. Or other support.Your nuclear family/security must be first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 How old are they? (My parents are in their 80's and 90's so I'm always surprised when someone says their parent is 50. But it makes a huge difference.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 We have a somewhat similar situation. After a couple of years of feeling duped, we've instituted a grocery gift card only rule. It keeps us from feeling morally bankrupt and, well, bankrupt bankrupt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymonster Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Oddly enough, about two years ago I started a post with a very similar question. My mother has mental health and addiction issues, which keep her from making decent life choices. She has been so mean to all of my family (which is large) that I'm the only one who regularly communicates with her. I've decided to continue communicating with her or else she will harass my grandma, who is a sweet, frail elderly dynamo. In any case, she called on Monday of this week, asking for more money to prevent imminent homelessness. Again. I'm coming from a little under 26 years of parenting my mother and giving her money, so that is my basis for responding. I'm going to advocate for tough love and erecting personal boundaries to protect yourself and your nuclear family. The challenge/issue I see is that the MIL/FIL aren't making any changes to their lives to deal with the "new reality" that they find themselves in. If you start helping them now and "saving" them from their bad choices, they don't have an opportunity to learn from mistakes. Your hubby's seasonal work would be concerning -- it would be really hard to plan your family needs in advance, and you may well need the savings later in the year. If you do decide to give them money, please pay the creditors directly. I once wired money to my mother, only to have her call a few weeks later, cooing about how she was enjoying her new boat (it was a small motorboat). Apparently, she had asked my three sisters and I for money to pay the same bill. Three of us came up with the money, so she paid part of the bill and took the "leftover" to buy a boat. We got wise after that -- all requests for financial assistance were discussed by the four siblings, and all payments go directly to creditors. It's a hard, hard position to be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I think an obligation to parents covers the general realm of food, shelter and necessary medical care -- not phones, vehicles or cigarettes (unless that's in the realm of 'no big deal' in some other context, not your situation). I also think that while 1. it need not be offered unconditionally, 2. it should not be offered in a humiliating or manipulative way. Finding a path between 1. and 2. is often very difficult and depends on a lot of situational factors. (ETA: I use "obligation" here -- but I should say that I mean "under normal circumstances" as something like a baseline recommendation. Some situations are far too complex for this, and in those cases it shouldn't be seen as "not meeting an obligation".) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abba12 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I think it depends on a lot of factors. for example we would never give dhs parents money because we have watched them waste it away and complain about things being tight for years now, all the while criticizing our financial decisions. We know if we gave them money their wine and gourmet food would not be cut back, nor would other irresponsible decisions. They won't change anything until they have to face it themselves. They don't see their situation as being anything but unlucky timing over and over. We don't see it that way and we aren't willing to save them from their own mistakes until they are prepared to admit the mistakes and change. On the other hand we just gave my father a considerable sum of money to allow him to dig himself out of a hole and declare bankruptcy, and took care of some things bankruptcy did not to allow him a true fresh start. This money may or may not be paid back. But his situation was primarily caused by custody legal fees and a few other external circumstances which began interacting with each other and spiraling. He has been as responsible as he could in the circumstances, he has made some mistakes but recognizes them, and they were more mistakes about choice in accommodation for example, or not completely thinking through the consequences of certain career choices, not mistakes like still drinking wine every night and constantly buying unneeded things, and showing them off while complaining about money being tight. We are confident the money and the fresh start will be appreciated for what it is and the money used responsibly with a plan he has discussed with us and we are quite sure he intends to follow through with which acknowledges and hopefully helps to fix some past mistakes, and hopefully his run of genuinely crappy circumstances has ended Having said all that, I would buy the in laws groceries and give them those, and we would never allow them to be homeless or go without necessary medical care. so I suppose I believe you are obligated to help them but that obligation is not necessarily financial, and certainly does not require you to cancel out all of the consequences of their poor decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 With your particular factors... - Does it seem likely that they will attain some kind of welfare, disability or other social assistance, someday, say, within a year? <OR> Is it more likely that they are going to need to find a way without social assistance until something else changes in their lives? - Does it seem likely that they would tighten their belts and prioritize food and shelter expenses themselves? <OR> Are they more likely to allow others to cover the necessities while spending their own income (though they have none at all right now) on the normal items of their former lifestyle? - How willing and co-operative are they likely to be if you/DH were to suggest that their budgeting should be a team effort if you/DH are going to be covering any bills? - How willing and co-operative are they likely to be if you/DH were to offer them a different, cheaper, living situation that you would cover on their behalf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I would offer mine food and a roof, but I don't think I would pay their bills. Of my parents, it would be my mother, and this would be as a result of her poor choices. I don't particularly feel obligated to her for much due to my childhood. If my dad needed it, there would be some truly catastrophic, end-times scenario... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftymama Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 It is my understanding that giving people money can, in some cases, interfere with their receiving certain benefits or the level of some benefits. I do not know the particulars, but a friend is having serious issues with MIL and how to proceed because they helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 For the first 10 years of our marriage, we didn't eat out, we saved every penny we could and paid off our mortgage. We were debt free, no car payments, no mortgage, no credit cards. We were so excited we announced it to my parents. My mom mentioned that they wished they could get some help to get where we were, no debt. So, we invited them out to talk about it. My parents were out that night for supper! After the kids were in bed, we sat down in the living room to talk about how we got ourselves to the place we were and my Mom asked us if we were willing to help them pay off their mortgage and credit card bills. When we told them we weren't going to give them money, just guidance on how to do the same thing. They got up and walked out telling us that we wasted their time. 10 years later, they still are in debt. To put this in context. My dad worked at Chryslers his whole life and we earned under $25,000 a year. I guess my point is this. Don't give them money if they aren't willing to put the effort in to help themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalea Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Your moral responsibility is to your husband and children. Before giving charity to anyone you should have a year's salary set aside, fully funded retirement (age appropriate), and fully funded college accounts for your children. If you have all of this congratulations! These are the absolute minimums for being financially healthy. If you do not have these then you truly have no money to offer and can honestly say so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymonster Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 We have a somewhat similar situation. After a couple of years of feeling duped, we've instituted a grocery gift card only rule. It keeps us from feeling morally bankrupt and, well, bankrupt bankrupt. If there are addiction issues (scratch-it tickets, cigarettes, alcohol),you might want to be cautious with grocery gift cards, as well. We thought we had found a good way to get my mother funds, but we didn't know she would buy scratch-off lottery tickets at the grocery.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 To answer a few questions... MIL does not have a high school diploma or work history. She says she is trying to look for a job, but I don't know how hard she is trying. This is one of my frustrations. She should have been looking for the last 18 mos. She started looking 3 weeks ago. They are in their late 50s. They are getting food assistance and it is enough to cover their food needs. I believe they will get disability at some point. FIL is not 100% deaf, but he literally needs to be screamed at to hear. He cannot talk on the phone. He cannot watch TV w/o captioning. Either way, he is 58 and will be eligible for SS in 3.5 years. They have no history of "tightening their belts". This isn't the first time they have been in a tough financial spot. They spend like normal until it is gone and then look around in shock wondering what to do. We have offered several suggestions that could help them (some with and one without our financial backing) and they have fallen on deaf ears. Thank you for these responses. You are confirming my/our thoughts, but I was afraid that I wasn't being objective. They have done nothing to change or help themselves. Our suggestions are ignored and then we get a "the sky is falling" phone call. I feel bad because in their mind, we are fairly well off. We are not, but to someone who has literally never had a savings account, I guess that is how we look. It is making me feel guilty, so I really appreciate the advice that we need to take care of ourselves first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Zero. I think you have zero "obligation." Whenever I am struggling with whether to do something, I ask myself two things (1) Do I have to? (2) Do I want to? Very rarely do I really believe I "have" to do anything, but I often surprise myself with what it turns out that I want to do. Sometimes I don't think I want to do something, but when I really admit I don't HAVE to, it turns out that I do want to - just not for reasons that are most obvious. I want to feel I have done the right thing, I want to help someone who has helped me, I want to make my relationship with someone better, I want to avoid feeling guilty, I want to avoid conflict, I want to look good in the eyes of my family or community etc. In this particular case, I might just really not want to risk them showing up on my door step looking for a place to live. So helping with rent might be for my own mental health. And then when I sort of get in touch with the part of me that wants to do something, and ruminate over why I want to do it, I feel less annoyed, pressured, put out, etc if I do it. This is one of those situations. If your DH wants to do it and you want him to feel good about himself as a son, or if you know you will not feel right about them being homeless, or if you can't deal with the judgment of family and friends, or if you just think it's something that God calls you to do, it's good to identify those motives and weigh them against your feelings about why you might not do it. And then in the end, decide if you are going to do it and why and they don't feel like a martyr, because you have acknowledged how your own self interest affected the decision. On the other hand, you might decide that none of the things you "want" (praise, esteem, being a good wife, avoiding conflict,aspiring to holiness etc) is a good reason to do something you ultimately DON'T want to do and don't have to do, and you might decide that it actually won't help them anyway. And then you won't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Your moral responsibility is to your husband and children. Before giving charity to anyone you should have a year's salary set aside, fully funded retirement (age appropriate), and fully funded college accounts for your children. If you have all of this congratulations! These are the absolute minimums for being financially healthy. If you do not have these then you truly have no money to offer and can honestly say so. I can't imagine how the world would go around if the only people who ever gave charity were those who had this level of wealth. Or if it did keep going around, whether I'd want to live there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 I can't imagine how the world would go around if the only people who ever gave charity were those who had this level of wealth. Or if it did keep going around, whether I'd want to live there. I understand your point, but I took her post to mean that you don't have an obligation unless those other bases are covered. That you shouldn't feel guilty when you look them in the eye and say, "I'm sorry but we can't afford to help you cover your living expenses." If you think that a person with a penny to spare should give in my situation, I would love to hear it. That is why I started this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I understand your point, but I took her post to mean that you don't have an obligation unless those other bases are covered. That you shouldn't feel guilty when you look them in the eye and say, "I'm sorry but we can't afford to help you cover your living expenses." If you think that a person with a penny to spare should give in my situation, I would love to hear it. That is why I started this thread. I would join those in the thread who would offer the occasional listening ear and the occasional grocery gift card at the most. It's not honoring parents to teach children to enable these behaviors. It's better to assume that your parents would want you to raise your children well, no matter their own bad decisions, including putting your money and energy toward their welfare AND modeling how to navigate difficult family situations. DH and I have a distant but carefully-supportive-in-true-emergencies relationship with one of our four parents because of these types of issues. It stinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I wouldn't help them. If you pay for their groceries, they'll use their own money on luxuries. And if they ask why not, I would tell them why not, quietly and in a matter of fact tone without preaching. They won't like to hear it and will get upset, but I think honesty is the best policy so that they know why you are saying no and maybe they won't keep hassling you about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess in the Burbs Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Well we have strained relationships with the inlaws. Dh chooses to keep contact to a minimum. Our inlaws used to be doing well. They made a lot of stupid choices. Any suggestion from us about sound financial choices was met with nasty returns. So when the grandma was buying them things we told her not to as well. No one listened. Inlaws now live in a tiny trailer bought by the grandma that is on their dd's land. She probably pays the taxes but collects no rent from them. They have had all sorts of things bought for them but they then sell it for cash to use as they see fit. So no, we would say love them from afar. They are adults. If you feel so drawn to help I would send info on local grocery and food helps on the area like the Angel food ministry or food pantry. They have to learn to do for themselves or you only enable the behavior....leading to expectation of more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 You wrote they are getting aid for food. If you were going to help them with that, I believe it should be that you select what you want to pay for, and you order it, and you have it delivered to their home. No gift cards, where they might purchase things that are inappropriate, with your money. It might be good for them, if they had their cell phone service turned off and if their car was repossessed. Tough love... That, possibly, might motivate them to try to improve their situation on a permanent basis. If you help them now, it may become something that you find yourselves doing, in coming months and years for them. Basically, they need a roof over their head, running water, electricity, and food. Internet and cell phones are nice, but not as important as shelter and food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 If there are addiction issues (scratch-it tickets, cigarettes, alcohol),you might want to be cautious with grocery gift cards, as well. We thought we had found a good way to get my mother funds, but we didn't know she would buy scratch-off lottery tickets at the grocery.... True enough! If we were local, I'd absolutely deliver grocery bags myself, but that's not the case. And, unfortunately, we have several different relatives looking for "help". Even going so far as to having elderly relatives lie on their behalf, claiming it's money for medication. These decisions are heartbreaking and sometimes terrifying, so a black and white set of rules is very important. We got so sucked in at one point that I considered putting the kids in school so I could go to work. Until I snapped out of it and realized (most of) these people could go to work themselves!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I vote No, you do not have an obligation to give them money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I don't think your are morally obligated to help them. It sounds like if you help them, their hand will continually be out. You don't sound like you are sitting on heaps of cash and you need to make sure your own family is secure. If it were a one time thing, I'd probably help. In the situation you've described helping them won't actually help. I'd still feel guilty if I were put in the situation of not helping my parents. But keep remembering entering the cycle of "helping" will compromise your own family in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I've been there too, with other family members. We decided that we had to give without judging the choices of the beneficiary. Yes, he spent some of our largess on cigarettes, which we consider an indulgence and unnecesary expense. We also have minimized our cash donations and instead substituted grocery trips and bus passes. People who are in the age range of grandparents are not likely to change lifelong habits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyof4ks Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I think offering a place to stay is adequate. Giving money only to have it squandered and end up in the same place in a few months does not seem wise IMO. I am of the opinion that beggars cannot be choosy, so they can take your offer or figure it out on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 No. No obligation. I've helped ppl upon occasion, when I could afforrd to do so, as a gift. I've been helped, myself. ETA: the folks I've helped didn't even ask me. I was simply aware that they were struggling, and I could do something small to help. My concern w/the situation you describe, is that it would rapidly become an expectation. Folks who do 0 to help themselves, yet turn to others can be (not saying all are, but can be) a bottomless black hole of need. Also, there's a nasty lil something in some states/provinces, called 'filial responsibility laws' wherein you can be court ordered to pay for older parents. Like child support, but reversed. I wouldn't want to start a history that would enable such a ruling against me. (Call me paranoid, but I have family members that would indeed pursue such a thing, given a chance). The other thing is, I know myself. I know my temperment. And I know, for a stone cold fact, that if I gave $ to family to pay their mortgage, and then heard they were out for supper, I'd flip my lid. Esp since it would mean that *we* cut out luxuries in order to send that kind of money, if not did w/out a few needs. I would be visciously angry and resentful over that. All of that to say, if you are in a position to gift some $, that's one thing. But to pay someone else's mortgage is usually a sizeable undertaking, requiring sacrifice and doing w/out on your end, and may imply a continued arrangement, so be careful. My MIL, if we had $ to burn, would rec gifts. No cash. We already know that she makes unwise $ choices, incl donating to her church and being left short herself. We know any $ we would give her would simply enable her to increase the poor decision making. Short of a lotto win, though, it's not something we're ever going to have to worry about ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 My opinion my not popular but I have no obligation to help my parents. My obligation is to my family. Now if I wanted to be nice and send a gift card to a grocery store and such that is out of the kindness of my heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmtzc2009 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I'm sorry, this is a stressful situation! Some time ago I read a great article on when/how to help people. I wish I could find it to refresh my memory with more of the details. Anyhow, it said something like the best help we can really give someone if they are willing to take it is to help give them the skills to make better choices. Ex. money management help, job search assistance etc. I think it's important to consider if you pay for xyz will that change their situation. It's one thing to offer help to get someone out of a bind or even short term help in a difficult time in someones life but you can't become a crutch or an enabler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Personally, I think there is an obligation to help if your parent was a good person/parent AND if they are now unable to help themselves due to age/infirmity/etc. It doesn't sound like your parents meet the second qualification. So, no, I don't think you have an obligation. For me, the extent of the help/obligation would be safe food/shelter/medical care and some measure of comfort/pleasure that you can reasonably afford. Personally, I do feel a great obligation to my own mom and did so also for my deceased dad. My brother and I helped my dad financially, even at a time we could not really afford to do so (still young and in school). Dad wasn't making good choices, but he had been very good to us and generous as well, so helping out seemed the right thing to do, and I am glad we did what we could. My mom won't ever need financial help, but she does now need a great deal of other help (Alzheimer's), and my brother, husband, and I are all committed to caring for her, much the same we would if one of our children or spouses were incapacitated. I would not abandon my mom to an institution or "the system" any more than I would my child or husband. Then again, Mom and Dad were each wonderful parents and wonderful people. That matters a lot. Dh's parents were "good parents" but have had very distant relationships with us as adults, and we really don't like each other much. I'd not feel obligated to take them into my home, that's for sure. So, I really think this is a personal and variable question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 My in-laws are struggling financially. They are 2 payments behind on their vehicle, phone/internet will be shut off next week, and they will not be making March's house payment. They have no income at this time. I am wondering what is our moral responsibility to them? Here goes the back story... DH's parents divorced when he was a baby and remarried when he was 19. His mom had a couple jobs for a few months but otherwise lived on welfare until she remarried. His dad always had a decent job (considering he only had a high school education) making 60K or so. Unfortunately, after paying back child support to the state of MN, buying cigarettes and beer there was never anything left over. :huh: I could go on and on about their poor financial decisions - the list is long. Two years ago FIL underwent ear surgery to repair his poor hearing, but instead was left with virtually no hearing. Due to this he lost his job. He has been denied once for disability, but they are going through the appeals process. We don't know if we should offer financial help. Part of me feels like we should. We have a small savings, a nice house, no vehicle payments, etc. We could afford to help them. (Afford as in we could still pay for food, not afford as in we wouldn't feel it) OTOH, until this year we made close to half what they did - in a much higher COL state. My dh is seasonal and we have no way to know what this year will bring. It really pisses me off to think of spending our money to cover their stupidity. And where does it stop? We already did give them $500 last summer. Do we pay their phone bill? Pay off their vehicle? Make a house payment? Then what? What will be different 30 days from now? FWIW, we are in MN and they are in AL, but my dh has offered a plane ticket and a place to stay to his mom. He does not get along with his dad. (That is for a different thread...) Any advice? I would not help. It sounds like they have been irresponsible. And as soon as you help, the more help they will "need." They will spend all your hard saved money. Eventually, you will have to say no. It will only be harder once they see you have money that you could give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 My parents have helped all of their adult children and their families at some point -- even though they didn't have every box checked off. For some of us, it meant a roof over our heads, for others it was medicine/assistance for a needed surgery, for another it was an emergency in-patient treatment facility for a grandchild... I don't think they view it as an obligation -- but they would *never* just give us money. My in-laws have made a series of bad choices -- I don't feel the need to rescue them from their situation, but if it were a matter of having a vehicle to get back and forth somewhere, or medicine, or shelter -- we'd probably do what we could....paying bills as directly as possible (both of my BIL's live in the area, so they could make sure money went where it was supposed to). My parents, however, I feel we owe a lot more to (and my dad will finally retire next January at 70). Their house is nearly paid off, they have retirement savings, and no debt. Our housing decisions often revolve around -- could my folks live here with us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 We had issues when dh parents were alive and went through times when he helped each, separately, because they were divorced. My dh paid both mortgages on his parents home after his father left his mother and helped his father with a lot of bills even though he was only 19 at the time and had moved out on his own. After a few years we stuck to the motto "banks are for cash, family is for love." Until they passed 15 years apart, we did give them food at times and dh's brother bought his father a heater last year but other than that requests for cash were denied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 In this situation, I think giving them help wouldn't actually help at all. There's a difference between a hand out and a hand up and you would likely be giving them nothing more than a hand out and they would still be struggling and on the brink of everything like they are now. I would be concerned about food and shelter, but you said food is covered. I would be willing to pay their mortgage payment (not given them the money... pay it directly) IF not paying it meant they'd be on the street. I wouldn't make it a habit, though, because their lifestyle choices would likely just get worse expecting that they never have to pay that money out from their own funds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonesinIndiana Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Hugs to you as you deal with this. If?/when your FIL receives disability, he will receive a lump sum of back pay from when he first applied for disability. It will probably be a big check. That might be an opportunity for them to catch up or continue 'business' as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Hugs to you as you deal with this. If?/when your FIL receives disability, he will receive a lump sum of back pay from when he first applied for disability. It will probably be a big check. That might be an opportunity for them to catch up or continue 'business' as usual. Experience would tell me that the lump sum of back pay would mean they can go on a vacation! Because they deserve it! Then they'll call to say the timing belt went and they have no room on their credit card to pay for it to be fixed and could you talk to the repair man for a minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Whenever my husband and I want to help someone (family or friends) we always ask, "Are we helping or enabling?" In your situation, I would base your decision on that as well. That's a tough place to be with your in-laws. I'll be praying for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I am confused. Is there another child involved? Who did the "back child support" go to? I may be missing something obvious. I admit I hyper alert on those issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Happy Saturday! Double post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I would never help either of my parents with finances. They are both so irresponsible and no matter how much they've made my entire life they've managed to live just outside their means. My mother and stepfather's income is likely twice my husband's and she's practically destitute in debt because of her insane spending habits. I would never pay a single bill for her. My sister on the other hand... I paid her electricity bill once and have lent her money of a couple occasions. She is a single mom working full time and going to school and working her butt off to make ends meet and she always pays me back quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I would never help either of my parents with finances. They are both so irresponsible and no matter how much they've made my entire life they've managed to live just outside their means. My mother and stepfather's income is likely twice my husband's and she's practically destitute in debt because of her insane spending habits. I would never pay a single bill for her. My sister on the other hand... I paid her electricity bill once and have lent her money of a couple occasions. She is a single mom working full time and going to school and working her butt off to make ends meet and she always pays me back quickly. And I think that, right there, is the diff btwn 'hand up' and 'hand out'. Someone who's doing the very best they can, making every effort they can, vs irresponsible behaviour that shows no signs of changing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 I am confused. Is there another child involved? Who did the "back child support" go to? I may be missing something obvious. I admit I hyper alert on those issues. The back child support went to the state of MN. FIL never paid child support and MIL lived on welfare. Eventually the state went after FIL, so he ended up paying until my DH was almost 30. This is confusing because they divorced when DH was a baby and remarried when he was 19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 Experience would tell me that the lump sum of back pay would mean they can go on a vacation! Because they deserve it! Then they'll call to say the timing belt went and they have no room on their credit card to pay for it to be fixed and could you talk to the repair man for a minute. Yeah, experience tells me that it will be an Alan Jackson concert and a weekend at the casino.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I think I'd find a well-defined, financially do-able way to help. In this case, I might offer to pay their phone/Internet bill until one of them has been employed for 3 months OR for one year (whichever comes first). It's significant, and you need those services to find work these days. Let them figure out how to cope with foreclosure or auto repossession on their own. What else do they have to do anyway? Your obligation will be helpful AND have a very clear, very generous calendar date in sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 A couple of other questions Do you think that the amount of beer that FIL consumes indicates alcoholism, or is it a normal/manageable type of drinking Is their housing payment appropriate for what they are getting for it: is it a “good deal†(most places cost that much per month to live in) or a “bad deal†(they have a lot more house than they need, and they are paying through the nose for it)? If they lose their home, will it be possible for them to transition to another kind of housing (with help) that they will find more manageable or will they end up surfing through spare rooms of family members (including you)? If they keep the house until disability benefits kick in, will that level of income make it affordable again? How long will the home be useful to them before they need to be housed differently for health-and-old-age reasons – probably about 15 years? Will it be affordable on benefits that whole time? If I pre-suppose the above answers to “no alcoholism, a reasonable housing cost, and house-loss probably going to make things much worse†– here’s how I assess your situation: job loss due to legitimate disability, single income family, legitimate benefits forthcoming, long term cigarette addiction but no other sense of an extravagant lifestyle, food already covered house worth securing I’d consider the following measures: Covering a specific portion of their house payment, on a reliable monthly basis, directly towards their bank – every month until benefits kick in. (Perhaps 30%? 50%?) Buying an ongoing supply smoking cessation product (patches, gum, etc) and having it delivered from a pharmacy. Considering the purchase or financing of a hearing aid – if appropriate. Changing my relating style to be self-motivated about initiating supportive contact with them, particularly MIL: being a cheer-leader. If the house is not worth securing, I’d actively advocate for transitioning to another style of housing… not sure what that looks like... research would be the first step. If there is active alcoholism, it will probably rule their lives, and their house will never be affordable for them again, even if they gain an income from MIL, or various benefits… possibly a better time for tough love. (???) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I would help them find a disability attorney with a good reputation who could get them emergency SSI (it's help for the desperate before you qualify for social security), and it shouldn't cost anyone anything unless and until they receive social security disability, and I might offer them a place to stay, assuming hard core addiction and the issues it brings (abuse, codependency) wouldn't affect your children... Other than that, I wouldn't give them any money. Maybe some bus tickets to get to your house, but that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 The back child support went to the state of MN. FIL never paid child support and MIL lived on welfare. Eventually the state went after FIL, so he ended up paying until my DH was almost 30. This is confusing because they divorced when DH was a baby and remarried when he was 19. One of my own personal barometers involves child support. The character of non-payers is something I could never support. In this scenario, all things including the passive wait for disability add up to a "no". Unless Mom has severe learning issues or low IQ, she could have gone back to school, gotten trained, or worked. Dad could be doing some other kind of training. The bad choices, beer and cigs are other nudges towards a no help decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdrinca Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 My inlaws are in a very precarious financial situation. We found out about it only by accident, but they're nearing retirement with an enormous amount of credit card debt (on top of a lifestyle that outpaces their current income - phones, cable television, car payments, vacations). I'm not sure how it's going to work for them, but it's clearly not a good situation. Anyway. It sounds terrible, but I really resent the looming feeling that we're going to have to help bail them out in 5-10 years. We're already so frugal and make so many sacrifices financially. I wouldn't help. My family and our little ones come first. I don't want to set a precedent of poor financial choices being borne by the younger generations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I agree with others about not setting a precedent in helping if they won't do what they need to do to change. You'd be applying a band-aid that won't stick long. At some point, you'll be out of savings to help them and they'll be stuck like they are right now. You can offer to help them figure out their income and bill paying, but I'd expect them to resist the changes that would mean. Do they have a plan in place for if they lose their vehicle and/or home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I don't really want to hijack this thread, but it feels internet-safer to sneak this in here instead of starting a new one. What does one do in family situations like this when there are children involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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