bettyandbob Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I don't really want to hijack this thread, but it feels internet-safer to sneak this in here instead of starting a new one. What does one do in family situations like this when there are children involved? I'd look for a way to be a stable influence on the dc without offering financial support to the parents. possibly after school childcare--if local summer trips to my home--if not local help an older child access free extracurriculars (you'd be amazed at how much goes unaccessed in my community because the people for whom these programs at meant never get the info) help older child apply for scholarships to camps and other extracurriculars. including children occassionally on family outings -- local hikes, weekend camping, whatever I'm doing cheap if I have extra seats in the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 We give my in-laws financial support and have for years. It is an endless suck and I don't think it will ever get better. There are no addiction or abusive issues; just unfortunate circumstances and poor choices. We do it because we feel that we should help and we will not have them on the street, and I really don't want them living with us. Other people "could" help, but we are the ones who know about the situation. It is what it is. I've found that I can do it without bitterness if I just let it go. I have no expectation or hope of things changing or of them not needing help in the future. I do not ask what the money was spent on and I don't nag at them when I know they spent the money on frivolous gifts for the kids we do not need or want while they are worried about larger bills or issues. I can't. I can't even think about it or start. Even if they promise to pay us back, we do not expect it. I don't even consider that to be a real possibility. We give them the money because we want to. If we expected to be paid back or expected them to always use it wisely, we could not have a good relationship, and they are really good grandparents and well meaning people. It would be a tragedy to allow tension in our relationship with them which would impact their relationships with the kids. If I thought the money was spent on destructive things like drugs, alcohol, or gambling, we would not enable that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 This is so hard, I know. We haven't faced it, but I have walked this road with my BFF and her parents. Here is what I would suggest you consider (not all, just some ideas) Add them to your cell plan if it is relatively cheap to do so (ATT's new plan is $15 per phone for unlimited) Pay one house payment directly to the mortgage company Send them grocery gift cards Make a car payment directly to the car company Help them look into a reverse mortgage if they are old enough Just make sure you don't send them money directly..... What does your husband say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I'd look for a way to be a stable influence on the dc without offering financial support to the parents. possibly after school childcare--if local summer trips to my home--if not local help an older child access free extracurriculars (you'd be amazed at how much goes unaccessed in my community because the people for whom these programs at meant never get the info) help older child apply for scholarships to camps and other extracurriculars. including children occassionally on family outings -- local hikes, weekend camping, whatever I'm doing cheap if I have extra seats in the car. We do summer trips for one person. We also have a close relationship on that end, so they're pretty easy. The other is not school aged. Family ties almost completely severed except when looking for $$$. We started out doing the whole hand-me-down thing and later discovered they wouldn't even use them! :huh: Despite completely denying cash each and every time, that's always what they're looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 We do summer trips for one person. We also have a close relationship on that end, so they're pretty easy. The other is not school aged. Family ties almost completely severed except when looking for $$$. We started out doing the whole hand-me-down thing and later discovered they wouldn't even use them! :huh: Despite completely denying cash each and every time, that's always what they're looking for. Maybe I'm just a snot (entirely possible :p ) but folks that need help don't get to dictate what that help is. I mean, we've been horridly, desperately broke at times. Hand me downs were a HUGE blessing. Kids are constantly outgrowing things. Someone that can afford to turn their nose up at hand me downs doesn't need help that bad, imo. Esp when they're demanding cash. That would be a big NOPE to me. ETA: What I'm trying to say is, you give the help you can. If that's not good enough, then folks don't need the help, kwim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Maybe I'm just a snot (entirely possible :p ) but folks that need help don't get to dictate what that help is. I mean, we've been horridly, desperately broke at times. Hand me downs were a HUGE blessing. Kids are constantly outgrowing things. Someone that can afford to turn their nose up at hand me downs doesn't need help that bad, imo. Esp when they're demanding cash. That would be a big NOPE to me. ETA: What I'm trying to say is, you give the help you can. If that's not good enough, then folks don't need the help, kwim? Not a snot at all, Imp! I completely agree. And it's absolutely infuriating. Technically, they can't "afford" anything. Neither adult works. They have medially fragile relatives supporting them right now. And, in the state they're living in, financial elder abuse laws don't cover how they're going about it . It's heartbreaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I don't really want to hijack this thread, but it feels internet-safer to sneak this in here instead of starting a new one. What does one do in family situations like this when there are children involved? I have my 17 year old sister living with me this year. With my mother's financial situation and mental illness issues, I consider it a rescue mission. My opinion is... help the kids as much as you can, but don't enable or bail out the parents. And don't put your own financial situation or the well being of your own children at risk. For instance, I wouldn't have a sibling stay with me if they were a terrible influence on my kids or something like that. Your number one first responsibility is to your own kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I’d consider the following measures: Covering a specific portion of their house payment, on a reliable monthly basis, directly towards their bank – every month until benefits kick in. (Perhaps 30%? 50%?) Wow, it seems like you would have to make quite a bit of money to cover 30% to 50% of someone's mortgage! I don't think that choice is even a possibility for most people. Or perhaps dh very much has the wrong job, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Wow, it seems like you would have to make quite a bit of money to cover 30% to 50% of someone's mortgage! I don't think that choice is even a possibility for most people. Or perhaps dh very much has the wrong job, lol. Depends on where you live. Our mortgage is under $600 a month, 30% of that would be less than $180 per month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 OP, hopefully FIL has an attorney handling his disability appeal. It's very common for attorneys to contact creditors and explain the situation. I'm sure his attorney has a form letter he can send to the mortgage company. Car loan companies tend not to care as much. He should try to trade in his car if he's not upside down on the loan. Again, these issues are very common and the SSDI attorney would be able to give this advice and assistance if asked. If the attorney recommends one of the scam loan places that promise to advance you settlement monies, run! Find a new attorney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 A couple of other questions Do you think that the amount of beer that FIL consumes indicates alcoholism, or is it a normal/manageable type of drinking Is their housing payment appropriate for what they are getting for it: is it a “good deal†(most places cost that much per month to live in) or a “bad deal†(they have a lot more house than they need, and they are paying through the nose for it)? If they lose their home, will it be possible for them to transition to another kind of housing (with help) that they will find more manageable or will they end up surfing through spare rooms of family members (including you)? If they keep the house until disability benefits kick in, will that level of income make it affordable again? How long will the home be useful to them before they need to be housed differently for health-and-old-age reasons – probably about 15 years? Will it be affordable on benefits that whole time? If I pre-suppose the above answers to “no alcoholism, a reasonable housing cost, and house-loss probably going to make things much worse†– here’s how I assess your situation: job loss due to legitimate disability, single income family, legitimate benefits forthcoming, long term cigarette addiction but no other sense of an extravagant lifestyle, food already covered house worth securing I’d consider the following measures: Covering a specific portion of their house payment, on a reliable monthly basis, directly towards their bank – every month until benefits kick in. (Perhaps 30%? 50%?) Buying an ongoing supply smoking cessation product (patches, gum, etc) and having it delivered from a pharmacy. Considering the purchase or financing of a hearing aid – if appropriate. Changing my relating style to be self-motivated about initiating supportive contact with them, particularly MIL: being a cheer-leader. If the house is not worth securing, I’d actively advocate for transitioning to another style of housing… not sure what that looks like... research would be the first step. If there is active alcoholism, it will probably rule their lives, and their house will never be affordable for them again, even if they gain an income from MIL, or various benefits… possibly a better time for tough love. (???) You ask great questions! Alcoholics? They spent a week with us summer before last. MIL drank a pint of vodka and FIL drank a case of beer every day. They reassured us that they don't normally drink like that. Since they were on vacation, they were letting loose and doing their normal "weekend drinking" during the week... I would say yes. However she claims that they aren't buying alcohol now. We have no way to know. They have very low COL. Their house is affordable on disability income - their won't be much left over, but they could do it. Their vehicle and their house are actually the better financial decisions they have made. This is part of why we do want to help. If we knew their disability would come through, we would be more willing to provide a band-aid for a couple months. Follow up question: Does anybody know how likely it is that somebody with permanent hearing loss will get disability? How long does the appeals process take? I agree with others about not setting a precedent in helping if they won't do what they need to do to change. You'd be applying a band-aid that won't stick long. At some point, you'll be out of savings to help them and they'll be stuck like they are right now. You can offer to help them figure out their income and bill paying, but I'd expect them to resist the changes that would mean. Do they have a plan in place for if they lose their vehicle and/or home? No, they have no plans in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 This is so hard, I know. We haven't faced it, but I have walked this road with my BFF and her parents. Here is what I would suggest you consider (not all, just some ideas) Add them to your cell plan if it is relatively cheap to do so (ATT's new plan is $15 per phone for unlimited) Pay one house payment directly to the mortgage company Send them grocery gift cards Make a car payment directly to the car company Help them look into a reverse mortgage if they are old enough Just make sure you don't send them money directly..... What does your husband say? He is just as lost as me. He can't stand his dad and he feels bad for his mom. Basically we go around in a circle: He talks to his mom. She cries, tells him how she can't eat, doesn't sleep, blah, blah, blah*. He wonders if we should help, but each time we come back to the fact that it is only a band-aid and it puts us in a difficult financial position. He says, "No way." Rinse and repeat. *In case my blah, blah sounds cold, let me clarify. Twelve years of calls varying from crying to hang up calls, has made me a bit oblivious to her drama. It's like the little boy who cried wolf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Follow up question: Does anybody know how likely it is that somebody with permanent hearing loss will get disability? How long does the appeals process take? I used to work in the department at a university that handled disability cases. I can't say the likelihood that he will receive disability, the cases are very complicated. I think you said he had been denied once and is currently appealing. If that is the case I would say to plan on it taking at least a year before a judge rules on it, 2-3 years wouldn't surprise me at all. I haven't worked in this area for a few years so the process may have changed some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Yes, I was thinking of something between 150 and 250 per month -- but of course, I have no idea what their cost of living is. That's why I asked all those questions around the question if whether the home is more trouble to keep (by helping to pay for it until benefits kick in) or more trouble to lose (then faced with a home transition or homelessness). I only suggest funding the mortgage payment if its an advantage-overall to keep them in the house. If the house needs to go, I'd say 'better sooner than later.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I would help them, but make it clear that I expect them to help themselves. They need to get rid of the vehicle with payments that they cannot afford. Someone needs to get some kind of job, if physically able. You aren't really in a position to float them, with your husband being seasonal. You are right. Nothing will be different 30 days from now if they don't change something. It is hard for me to believe that an adult's parents still have car payments. My in-laws are struggling financially. They are 2 payments behind on their vehicle, phone/internet will be shut off next week, and they will not be making March's house payment. They have no income at this time. I am wondering what is our moral responsibility to them? Here goes the back story... DH's parents divorced when he was a baby and remarried when he was 19. His mom had a couple jobs for a few months but otherwise lived on welfare until she remarried. His dad always had a decent job (considering he only had a high school education) making 60K or so. Unfortunately, after paying back child support to the state of MN, buying cigarettes and beer there was never anything left over. :huh: I could go on and on about their poor financial decisions - the list is long. Two years ago FIL underwent ear surgery to repair his poor hearing, but instead was left with virtually no hearing. Due to this he lost his job. He has been denied once for disability, but they are going through the appeals process. We don't know if we should offer financial help. Part of me feels like we should. We have a small savings, a nice house, no vehicle payments, etc. We could afford to help them. (Afford as in we could still pay for food, not afford as in we wouldn't feel it) OTOH, until this year we made close to half what they did - in a much higher COL state. My dh is seasonal and we have no way to know what this year will bring. It really pisses me off to think of spending our money to cover their stupidity. And where does it stop? We already did give them $500 last summer. Do we pay their phone bill? Pay off their vehicle? Make a house payment? Then what? What will be different 30 days from now? FWIW, we are in MN and they are in AL, but my dh has offered a plane ticket and a place to stay to his mom. He does not get along with his dad. (That is for a different thread...) Any advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 You ask great questions! Alcoholics? They spent a week with us summer before last. MIL drank a pint of vodka and FIL drank a case of beer every day. They reassured us that they don't normally drink like that. Since they were on vacation, they were letting loose and doing their normal "weekend drinking" during the week... I would say yes. However she claims that they aren't buying alcohol now. We have no way to know. . Only people with a substance abuse problem - abuse or dependence - could drink at that level without an acute health crisis. They have the tolerance that indicates chronic alcoholism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 Only people with a substance abuse problem - abuse or dependence - could drink at that level without an acute health crisis. They have the tolerance that indicates chronic alcoholism. I agree. They weren't even visibly drunk, except for one night when they drank beyond that. Carrie12345, dh has a younger half brother who graduated 2 years ago. In the past when the in-laws found themselves in a tough spot we always said we would offer to take custody before we would bail them out. Luckily, at the time things never got quite this bad. That definitely adds a different element to the conversation. Thank you to everyone who has responded. You have given me a lot to think about. I limit internet time during the week, so I probably won't make it back anytime soon. Carry on. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hen Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 my mom died recently of cirrhosis due to drinking. When she got sick at the end, she told everyone, including Dr.s that she wasn't drinking anymore, because she couldn't (stomach pains/sick) we found out after that she was still drinking large quantities of wine, but didn't consider that "drinking" as opposed to the vodka etc. So, my point is, alcoholics get very creative with their terms and explanations. sorry you are dealing with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I wouldn't help them with money at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.